ILM beware, Pitchfork have a new weapon in their arsenal

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Behold:

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/d/daft-punk/daft-club.shtml

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Why did they ever teach me to read?

― Llahtuos Kcin (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I've not heard the record and that wouldn't sway my decision one way or another but it's easily the best thing Pitchfork's published since Ethan's Eminem review.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:05 (twenty-two years ago)

WOW!

― Ricardo (RickyT), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

he's wrong about a few of the remixes but still, great review.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually it would have been better if it had been JUST the cartoons and none of the text, which is pfft and doesn't add anything. But the cartoons are great!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

holy god...and to think i skipped over this when i opened up pfork this morning...

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

It's funny, right, cos didn't PF hate on 'Discovery'? And now they claim to like 'Discovery' while hating on 'Daft Club'? It's like 'Absolute Power'. Hate on the Neps and you piss on my future grave.
I did like the cartoons though.

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, maybe it was a different guy, with a different opinion, that reviewed discovery?

the review is good, the cartoons are good

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:15 (twenty-two years ago)

SS. that's not the spirit! Generalizing about the party line of this or that publication is bread n butter ILM stuff, nicht war?

― Enrique (Enrique), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

It doesn't mention the Basement Jaxx remix which I really love (even if it is even more exhausting than normal Jaxx).

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:17 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/images/d/daft-punk/daft-club/06b.gif

― Matt DC (Matt DC), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Does this mean that all ILM Vs. Pitchfork fights now have to be performed using cartoons only?

Because I still don't know how to post a picture.

― Jedmond, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Ryan Schreiber gave Discovery a 6.4 and Homework a 7.6. This is by Nick Sylvester w/ Farley Katz.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Hahaha excellent.

Not that it really matters but was the review remotely fair? I can't remember a thing about listening to Daft Club frankly.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, pretty fair I guess. Doesn't deserve 1.6 surely, but it is very disposable compared to the original.

― Baaderist (Fabfunk), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Agreed, would have been so much better without the text (which I couldn't really be bothered to read).

― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:41 (twenty-two years ago)

THAT WAS FANTASTIC

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I think that was great. Jordan is right though, it wouls have been better with no text.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Ed. asks for text as intro and explanation, i do believe.
my own dubious trailblazing, pre-'Poon:

http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/l/lewis_jeffrey/its-the-ones-whove-cracked.shtml

― Beta (abeta), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Isn't "drawing pictures based on a song" part of GCSE art? Actually, yes, it is. It might be AS art, actually, but its one of the two.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Not when I did it. We did Kandinsky. I'd rather have done the draw a song thing to be honest.

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

This was funny but the kids in Oakland who reviewed Radiohead this way are still the best.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:36 (twenty-two years ago)

where do we find that ned?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:39 (twenty-two years ago)

In ILM archives, for one

― DJ Mencap (DJ Mencap), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:42 (twenty-two years ago)

There's some thread on ILM that links to it, I don't recall it offhand. A 'Radiohead drawing' search might turn it up.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 16:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Would it be cruel to tell Pitchfork that they're not funny?

― Stupid (Stupid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

tico and jedmond OTM

― zebedee (zebedee), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:01 (twenty-two years ago)

NICE

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I read he didn't know who Cosmo Vitelli was and stopped.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean seriously does anyone think someone who doesn't know who any one of the remixers are can possibly give such a low key release a decent review?

Not a chance, if anything on Daft Club is going to work then it's going to be a deep clubstyle record, cos all remixes are, generally. I haven't even heard Daft Club but there's a disdain for artists he's never heard of who are very good (not to mention fairly well known) which permeates the review and makes him seem like a total ignoramus and someone who shouldn't be next to near a remix album, ever.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:10 (twenty-two years ago)

"the charming big-beat start stops" of Face to Face.

Yeah whatever.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

the delightful millsian techno of one more time

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

is this what ned meant?

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

As a review - rotten.

As a conceit on which to hang cartoons of Daft Punk being eaten by giant sharks - A+++

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

is this what ned meant?

That would be it!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean seriously does anyone think someone who doesn't know who any one of the remixers are can possibly give such a low key release a decent review?

i have to ask: is the above sheer "rockism" at work?

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

as usual i'm with ronan on this one

and i was pretty let down by "daft club" (it was cooler when i got the tracks for free from the website)

"amateur-sounding minimal thump ... virtually intolerable on headphones"
"boxed beats and mindless eight-bit noises"
"$20 five-disc Ibiza trance box sets"
"vapid lyrics that are perfect for the floor"
"magically transports even the most retarded among us onto giant party blimps"

it's like every dance-music review cliche ever, hidden by cartoons (the cartoons are great, though!)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Have any of you ever been on a party blimp? Sounds like a pretty exclusive engagement to have such a populist appeal as nostalgic imagery.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Even though the review itself might be weak, the brilliance of the cartoons helps considerably and the responsible parties should be applauded.

I think they should do this every week, at least one review in this manner, or something along these lines.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Funny stuff. I like the Neptunes' HBFS remix tho. It's kind of pointless to judge the review minus the cartoon, I think.

― bnw (bnw), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:36 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh my god I didn't read down that far -- I just saw the 1.3 or whatever and stopped reading.

i have been taught a valuable lesson.

― ModJ (ModJ), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked the line better when i misread it as "magically transports even the most retarded among us into giant party blimps"

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:12 (twenty-two years ago)

this would be the best: "magically transforms even the most retarded among us into giant party blimps"

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:14 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah sorry that's what i meant!!

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

classick.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 19:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Why hasn't anyone ever done this before? Hilarious.

― Carrie Turner (cjt), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Gygax, the guy is completely ignorant of what he's reviewing (perhaps you are also and hence sympathise). Call it what you like, Vahid is on the money.

I didn't even bother looking at the cartoon. I still haven't. It'd have to be pretty good to redeem the review.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:19 (twenty-two years ago)

they have, just not on P-fork.

Ronan, do you hate fun?

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, the review is pretty blindingly obviously there solely to set the cartoons up. Plus it's hard not to imagine that he does know who Cosmo Vitelli is and is making fun of dance-snob sanctimony, just like most writers who say "and someone named" are doing.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

read he didn't know who Cosmo Vitelli was and stopped.
-- Ronan (ronan.fitzgerald...), January 28th, 2004.

I knew somebody would post that.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Come on dude the whole review smacks of "what the fuck is this" attitude. there are a whole load of dubious phrases and stupid descriptions of things throughout, which scream ignorance. It's impossible to credit the guy with even a cursory understanding of dance music, the one line about the song "CALLED THE DEMON REMIX" as opposed to remixed by Demon for christ's sake, illustrates that fantastically.

90s detroit acid house? Who could he mean? Who knows.

Also he didn't even mention the Gonzales remix of "Too Long" which is actually ace! I fail to see, similarly, how someone could really hate the Neptunes remix of HBFS and really love the original.

I don't hate fun, the cartoons are vaguely amusing, but the review is truly awful.

The guy doesn't even get the idea of the remix in the first place, how can someone get the idea when they're obviously only into such a miniscule amount of dance music.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm glad you knew, if you guessed it was me I'm happier still!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Given pitchforks audience, how much of an understanding is the reviewer really required to have?

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

And who cares anyway... I've been listening to dance music all my life and I don't know who Cosmo frickin' Vitelli is... stupid name tho...

― just saying, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, you really are the Mike Taylor of Dublin

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

probably none. don't review it then, given pitchfork's audience who is going to like a remix by anybody enlisted on the daft punk album?

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

"everyone has to have the exact same understanding of music as me or they are WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!"

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan is "OTM" -- I do not know who Cosmo Vitelli is, am incapable of post-irony, and only know how to write turgid prose about indie rock.

― Nick Sylvester, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

haha!

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, are we still on for Friday btw?

― Nick Sylvester, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Gygax, the guy is completely ignorant of what he's reviewing (perhaps you are also and hence sympathise).

I remember someone writing something similar ("How can you review x if you haven't heard of y") with regard to a non-dance artist a couple years ago on ILM and having the ILM-hard-liners go up in arms.

As demonstrated in the San Leandro schoolchildren's reviews of Radiohead, there is something noble about the ignorant review (besides hasn't ILM Critic-In-Residence chuck eddy championed the "unknowing" approach in several ILM posts?).

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe he just didn't like the music. If he doesn't know the history and the correct terminology it's sort of annoying but his opinion is still valid.

Plus the cartoons! Hilarious!

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

A lot of people might buy it ronan, Discovery was a big crossover hit, and so this release has generated interest wider than it might otherwise have done. pitchforks audience might well have looked at this, so a review is required.

― Stringent Stepper (Stringent), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Even when it's justified, the whole "wha! so-and-so doesn't know about x, no fair!" position is so whiny... just a bad place to argue from, no matter what the music is...

― just saying, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry Ronan, I love you like a brother but right now I'm chuckling at you for getting so wound up over this.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

With music I thought it would be interesting if a site gave reviewers CDRs with no info at all on who it was, no press releases, no background at all. To really just review the music. I'd be interested in seeing what such a site's take on music would be (probably already been done though).

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Leave Mike alone!

It's not particularly radical or stubborn of me to point out that a guy who describes something so wrongly, and to me, is so snide about his ignorance, shouldn't be reviewing something.

He clearly has no respect for Laidback Luke or Cosmo Vitelli because he's never heard their other work before, I'm not suggesting major respect is needed but it is ignorant and boorish to act so proudly about not knowing stuff.

I wouldn't do it and he shouldn't either. It's not funny or clever, and it ruins the cartoons for me pretty much. It's like being in a foreign country and screaming and laughing because a guy is wearing a sarong or something.

Also how is this helpful to Pitchfork readers, surely they want to read reviews by informed people?

It's not simply a question of him not having heard of Vitelli, it's a question of him not getting the whole concept of remixing period. And having a weak knowledge of dance music at best.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Dan Perry OTM. Ronan, I like you a lot, but you are being really pedantic about this.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, what struck me about this review, apart from how shitfunnyshit the cartoons are, was how 'The Neptunes' got the blame for the reviewer hating the HBFS remix, the funny thing being that whenever they 'do good' Pharrell gets all the damn credit from critics. And he's all over that remix.

Still, that score takes the piss big style. I heard/own about 4 of the mixes already and I like them, so this is sterotypical Pitchfork.

Ronan, not to wind ya up, but tell me more about Cosmo. I got his 'Robot Soul' single last year and really like it, esp. the Black Strobe shuffle (?)-esque mix. But kill the hate while yer at it - this is not worth the hassle.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, I'm flashing back to when Matt DC called PF's Rooty review 'Ronanbait' and now I'm glad you didn't take it.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Ronan, I'll pick you up at eight.

― Nick Sylvester, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost.

I think he does get the concept of remixing, and that he doesn't like where that concept gets the songs on the album. "I don't like it" /= "I don't get it." that's where I think you're being pedantic.

also, respecting Cosmo Vitelli is a bad idea, because his music is garbage.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:40 (twenty-two years ago)

plus "acting boorish" about not knowing people who make what is, in your estimation, bad music can be a very effective rhetorical tool.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

(and Matos, surely at this point in time 5 or 6 posters are the "everyone" in that post and me the WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!)

I disagree that he gets the concept, I disagree that anyone who says the stuff vahid quotes earlier (and some other clunkers too) gets the concept of dance music at all.

All that review will do is reaffirm the blinkers of Pitchfork people.

I accept I'm being stubborn, not pedantic, but you would too if you were actually interested in the artists concerned.

I have no problem with this sentence also, respecting Cosmo Vitelli is a bad idea, because his music is garbage. even though I disagree, but I detect a clear ignorant tourist vibe from the outset of that piece, perhaps because I am a fairly partisan fan of French house yes, but nonetheless.

(Barima check out "Little Scare" or his remix of "Behind" by Lacquer)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

So why do you care what Pitchfork says anyway?

Seriously.

― just saying, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

to be fair, if he'd given the album like a 6.9 or whatever and said mildly informed things about cosmo vitelli and laidback luke, the cartoons wouldn't be nearly as funny. seems like a worthy tradeoff.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm. the Vitelli album I heard (and reviewed) last year struck me as much more electro than house, but maybe I'm misremembering it. and I did overreact w/the "WRONG! etc." post earlier, apologies. but mark p is right--there's no doubt he exaggerated his dislike of the album (or at least highlighted the more exaggerated aspects of that dislike) for comic effect. this rubs Ronan the wrong way because when it comes to reviews he's a musicist, and doesn't bother me because when it comes to reviews I'm a writerist.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I see how this is funny for other people, and to them I say, look if I'm an idiot, why am I down here, at midnight, looking for the skin of a woman, who is really a seal.

(I don't really care what Pitchfork say, not that that has anything to do with me being wrong/right here. I may seem annoyed but I will discuss why I think something is silly at the drop of a hat, as anyone here knows, I am not flinging things around the room or anything. It was posted as a link and I'm interested in the music involved)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

FWIW the Q review of this did pretty much the same thing sans cartoons and left me clenching my fists and going 'grrrr' in the newsagent so I can sympathise w/Ronan but really I loved those cartoons even if wrong. My favourite is the Romanthony acoustic one cos it makes me think of Gary Jules.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

(D'oh, I have that Lacquer mix - can't remember how affected I was tho')

Could we call this a comedy review and all go home? I mean, it really is quite amusing. It's exactly the sorta laughs I get when you folks post pictures in threads to amuse or illustrate points. The dude doesn't have to be right or wrong really, whether or not he is a cloth-eared dance remix hata, this is still decent comedy. I mean, Ro, you could've tried being funny back at least, it IS PF.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:50 (twenty-two years ago)

Cartoons are funny.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey! I'm a writerist too, in some respects, I recognise the value of that but I just don't find that funny. I honestly do get that ignorant tourist sense from it, which isn't musicist or writerist to me. I'm not into cartoons particularly, so yeah I don't find it funny.

I really dislike the sense that he's appeared smart from a starting point of stupidity, to people here anyway, I have a real problem with people trying to score points when they don't know what they're talking about.

I am not a total musicist about reviews, far far from it really, I do think it's a style which is best suited to pop though. I can't escape the sense musicist is some kind of caveman and writerist is a decent writer!

x-post: I was funny back, my "delightful millsian techno of one more time" was great!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

haha tom it's not THAT bad

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Tom, I hope to God it's better than Gary Jules.

Ro, I liked that 'Face To Face' desc. but you get a B- for the wit regardless.

― Barima (Barima), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

there's nothing cavemanlike about either position, but most people who read reviews aren't interested in writing-qua-writing (writerism), they want to know about the music being written about with as little of the writer's ego as possible (musicism).

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I sympathise with Stelfox a bit on the other threads because it IS irritating to have people find it so amusing that someone cares alot about a specialist or minute genre of music, I can see how it is funny but it reminds me of making a point in class at college and people giggling nervously or going "ok we get you Ronan" nervously in that sort of calm "please stop" way.

I'm a confident person and it doesn't bother me but what I'm bemoaning here is the sense of mockery of interest or obsession or people getting opinionated or passionate (and I didn't want to use that word) about something. It's pretty lame and kind of soma inducing to me.

People should get opinionated about things, people should know who Cosmo Vitelli is and people shouldn't write reviews making this seem odd, he's appealing to the conservative side of the brain that goes "WHO, WHAT, I HAVEN'T HEARD OF THIS! WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT!"

It's disgusting! I'm not in a rage but it is. This post explains my position better I feel.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

x-post Matos in that case I definitely amn't a musicist.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

It was just the mournful face of the surviving DP Robot in that cartoon!

I am obsessed w/Gary Jules, ignore me please.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I should say SOME people should know who Cosmo is, others should know who someone I haven't heard of is.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Like it's often so hard NOT to be resistant to change and to support difference and stuff you're not familiar with, in a world where it's not at all encouraged. I accept it's so difficult to avoid and to not do it, but appealing to that univeral itch is just so awful. It does actually dishearten me quite a bit.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm amazed my seal reference slipped by into the night)

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I suppose I understand the position to some extent. i.e. if I were reading a negative review about some alt-country compilation and the reviewer referred to "Neko Case, whoever that is" I'd probably want to shear him in two as well. I think if that Cosmo Vitelli sentence were excised you might not have such a problem with it.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

well, I was taking a calculated risk in saying you were Ronan, and I'm sorry I mislabeled you. I was also being very very cheeky.

I guess I don't get the hate vibe you do because the writer clearly liked the original Discovery a lot. it'd be one thing if they'd sicced some "what the fuck is this . . . dance music shit?!" writer on the remix disc but that didn't seem to be the case at all.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Cosmo Vitelli is NOT to the dance world what Neko Case is to the alt-country world, though! if he'd said "Timo Maas, whoever he is," THEN I'd be offended.

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

(I go move house now bye)

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:04 (twenty-two years ago)

Don't worry Ronan, I'm sure Seal asks himself that question hundreds of times a day too.

― andrew s (andrew s), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

"amateur-sounding minimal thump ... virtually intolerable on headphones"
"boxed beats and mindless eight-bit noises"
"$20 five-disc Ibiza trance box sets"

I am willing to bet that to my ears nothing on there sounds like whatever EVERY SINGLE $20 five-disc Ibiza trance box set sounds like that. I am willing to bet a panel of ILM reviewers selected by William Shatner and Jeff Mills would agree that nothing on there sounds like trance!

Want to diss some dance music but don't know the language? Just lump it in with trance! MORE appealing to peoples preconceptions, banging their knee with the hammer and watching it pop up. It's lame! The fact is, and god knows I'm a victim of this myself, dance is tough to write about, I can hum a melody right now that would make a wicked French house anthem but actually making it depends on so many production subtleties and choices that in the bare lumpen language most of us are cursed with there isn't a great deal of difference between any dance song.

How do you describe a the synthesis of drums, keys, bassline, samples which makes a track work for you. It's EXTREMELY difficult, but nonetheless I think even understanding that concept is quite essential for a dance writer. And he doesn't I don't think. The Ibiza trance comparison seals that for me.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

One time I was at a record store in west LA and spied three double disc generic looking Ibiza trance comps for a buck each. I figured I'd take em over to Amoeba and sell em for a slight profit, Amoeba said no. Then Aron's said no. So I walked down Melrose, saw several girls buy some rap CDs from a guy on the street, and asked them if they wanted some Ibiza trance. "Ony five dollars each!" They were all over em.

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:19 (twenty-two years ago)

well who cares if there is a mountain of $20 five disc box sets in tower? we all know that. some people even buy those box sets. i would be more interested to read someone write about a paul van dyk global underground box than fennesz at this point. and if i se a $20 five-disc box set of ANYTHING i'll buy it! that's how i got into oum kalthoum and latin freestyle and 2-step. nick's just throwing out lazy tropes...

i like barima's joke review concept.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

kneejerk hating on trance post-dooms night post-satisfaction sounds like a losing proposition to me.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

sorry yall but the littest raver is right here, after reading this thread i expected the cartoons to be a lot funnier and the whole review is just typical pfork dance incomprehension

― trick love the kids!!, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm a little obsessed about this Cosmo Vitelli thing... no way to verify this, but I would guess that less than 1% of Pitchfork's audience has heard of him. So Nicholas is in the same place as his audience, which is I think legitimate. If he went on about Vitelli's work like it was a common reference point that wouldn't be very useful (Is it worth taking the time to educate Pitchfork's audience about Cosmo Vitelli? Does he warrant fifty additional words?)

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

i would be more interested to read someone write about a paul van dyk global underground box than fennesz at this point.

Why? Because you don't like Fennesz or you don't like how people write about his music?

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

and vahid correct as always, one more time still kinda feels like the lazy unsatisfying lil cousin to oakenfold/dj sammy euphoria (didnt anybody see 'swordfish'!??!)

― collard green neckbone eatin ass nigga, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Why? Because you don't like Fennesz or you don't like how people write about his music?

neither. well, a little bit of the second. it's just i think we all accept that he's basically quality and i think we're all well equipped to decided whether or not he's worth our time for ourselves at this point.

on the other hand if someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of trance were to show up and started laying out the tim finneyisms on what's great about so and so i'd just be excited because trance is like this vast terra incognita for me. i know i've heard a lot of stuff i've hated (like everyone here, probably) but i also know i've heard stuff that's been genuinely exciting too ... earlier this week i was listening to novy & eniac's "pumping" and wishing posters like siegbran would write more about the music and not just favor my lazy ass with lists and dj mixes!

anon poster: i can no longer tell if people are making fun of me on ILM.

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

That makes sense, Vahid, & I mostly agree with you. At least as far as looking to music writing for reccomendations goes.

Ronan's OTM when he says that dance music is incredibly hard to write about. Maybe the hardest genre. Well, free jazz would be close.

― Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

search: metropolis - cant stop this feeling remix by sasha

― hoes clothes shows vogues golds, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

In Ronan's defense I'd say the Vitelli thing is more of a rhetorical gaffe than anything: I don't know that I could ever bring myself to make a "whoever that is" joke about any genre that I didn't feel pretty damn in-touch with. This is why I only make "whoever that is" jokes about bad post-rock. (Also I never in my life expected to one day feel smart for knowing who Cosmo Vitelli is.)

The cartoons are nice, though. I would approve of the review but I lost my stamp.

― nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I suspect if my argument wasn't so laced with snobbery the waters would have been less muddied. Still!

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 28 January 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

I am so bummed by the people hating on this review. These cartoons are hysterical (the "One More Time" one has me in stitches.)

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 29 January 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

After a rather fragmentary acquintance with this thread and its title, I'm now under the impression that Pitchfork's new weapon is a spoon.

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Thursday, 29 January 2004 00:48 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...

okay, it's kind of wrong cos some of 'daft club' is great, but this was fucking funny.

― Miles Finch, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Any chance of a rereun for Human After All?

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 16:56 (twenty-one years ago)

"Nick Sylvester" is not his real name, is it??

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 17:43 (twenty-one years ago)

nope!

― Trick Molester, Tuesday, 8 February 2005 17:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, it's so exotic and fanciful!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

haha spence will never let that go

nick's interview with the advantage yesterday was hilarious too, by the way

― sleep (sleep), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 18:24 (twenty-one years ago)

This is bugging me and I don't mean this in a snide way but what is the "idea of remixes" Ronan refers to? Is he still around?

― tremendoid (tremendoid), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 19:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Has being named Nick Sylvester ever helped you, uh, connect with people on New Year's Eve in Germany by chance?

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 09:59 (twenty-one years ago)

guten rusch dude

― Nick Sylvester, Wednesday, 9 February 2005 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

hmm

― Yawn (Wintermute), Thursday, 2 March 2006 19:43 (twenty years ago)

You're saying he didn't actually interview the whale?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 2 March 2006 20:16 (twenty years ago)

Why do you think it did this?

― StanM (StanM), Thursday, 2 March 2006 20:21 (twenty years ago)

pod spotted.

― senseiDancer (sexyDancer), Thursday, 2 March 2006 20:25 (twenty years ago)

I thought he was a bit too harsh on The Sunshine Fix (that ratings at least 3 points too low).

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 2 March 2006 20:32 (twenty years ago)

Nick Sylvester: HOT... or NOT?!

― Confounded (Confounded), Thursday, 2 March 2006 20:38 (twenty years ago)

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