why is current drum 'n' bass seen as inherently bad?

also, the big marky tune from 02 got props outside the genre, and the dillinja remix of artful dodger ruffneck sound relatively recently.

Dairymilk Warrior ~ One More, from last year i think, is great, its an attempt at 93era ravey-jungle, but sounds like a weird hybrid of then and now. Could you call this 'new school old skool'?

i like that Dairymilk Warrior track a lot as well - it retains that fun 'rushing' element of the earlier stuff which would make a good revival for me at this time where i just feel there is no direction to go but backwards and along generally anyway :(

stevem, what is your idea of the peak? and what are the main selling points for tracks of this period?

they could call it breakbeat hardtechtrance or something, then it wouldn't have to compete with 93-96

there are several ways to consider why the genre peaked when i think it did. if you think about the beats themselves, there was a move from more and more complicated loops of sampled and sped-up breaks (i like to call it hardstep from '95 onwards - predominantly Amen Bros break but Apache was nudging in at this point) to using live 'home-grown' drums as the original source (Photek esp.) and a more minimalist approach to percussion. jazzstep and techstep (the clues as to which genres they were fused with are in the names) continued to use sampled breaks a lot of the time but they became marginal in Bukem's and others work (see Carlito's 'Heaven' or Bukem's 'Orchestral Jam' - both dropping empthasis on drums in favour of more melodic - albeit sampled - elements); the latter really formulated on the basis of using compressed distorted electronic drumkits in tandem with ultra-compressed snippets of same breaks (Amen & Apache) - resulting often in just a bassdrum and snare pattern and nothing inbetween of note (Doc Scott's 'Shadow Boxing' a good example i guess) for most of the time. this sort of signified a decision to put the drums more into the background ala house (the 4/4, although integral and omnipresent, was no longer the focus of house or techno because it was just expected and taken for granted - filter sequences were the new big thing although surprisingly not as much in breaks at that point). from then on i found it quite tedious when I saw DJs like Peshay play and it was pretty much that dense, powerful 'boomp - KAH..boomp-KAH' beat unchanged for the entire set - easier to mix really but not as fun to dance to - and the tunes lacked the progression that had been prevalent in a lot of stuff up to that point (Boymerang's 'Still' for example despite being kinda minimal maintained a 'prog' element of just basing itself around three 'acts' - all centred around the way the musical elements and were structured around each other - seemed VERY intelligent, like a robotic killing machine executing a range of complex protocols and directives). dare i say from there there was less imagination in that style, perhaps because a lot of ideas and references had already been exploited to saturation point (as happens with anything musical and reasonably popular) - it became a consolidation period also and by the time Grooverider and Peshay's long awaited albums dropped there was a sense of predictability creeping into a lot of it (tho both those albums aren't bad at all), at least for someone like me who had been listening to it for several years and noticed the development.

i seem to remember SR saying somewhere (on the old blissout?) that d'n'b was likely to become another one of those genres that still produces a handful of great tracks a year but no longer seems very exciting as a whole.

i think a whole lot of people hung on to the hope for a long time (me included) but eventually got worn down by it.

fwiw i'd be glad if there are some people out there willing to talk more about the current scene, point out those handful of great tracks.
for myself the only d'n'b i've heard in the last year has been the vile techniques comp and frankly it could be a record from 98

comparing current dnb to this is ridiculous; its entirely different music (although many of the major players are the same). why can't it be reviewed on its own merits, as a techno-y genre?

Same case can be made for Trance pre-97 vs. post-97, incidentally.

Later on 1996/1997/1988 I enjoyed the tech-step sound, as this was in many ways industrial music updated. I loved the brutal yet futuristic sound - an immense wall of sound.

Back in 2001 and 2002 things were definately on the up. In fact 2002 was seen by many as vintage year for drum n bass. I particularly enjoyed the Teebee and Ed Rush & Optical new style sound, half way house betweeen Techstep Jungle and Techno.

I think 2003 was an unusual year, as there were hardly any blockbuster drum n bass albums. However the scene does revolve around singles/ eps and dj's spinning vinyl first - so the CD listener like myself is not upfront compared to the vinyl junkie.

I still listen to the Grooverider/ Fabio on Radio 1. on Kiss 100 however there is Hype - who is complete star both presentation and music....and the flip side they also have the worst Drum n Bass DJ Adam F - I don't like the hip-hop drum n bass/ and vocal tracks he spins.

In many ways Drum N Bass/ Jungle - does exist in it's own sphere, it will carry on regardless of what outsiders think.

A couple of weeks back i heard on pirate radio station late at night: drum n bass with arabic and far eastern melodies

dubby suphonic drum n bass meets electro with the occasional clap-clap breakbeat sound, mixed with broken beats/ afrobeat tribal sound with some tracks in the mix haviing an arabic mantra chanting female vocals and some oriental melodies - multidimensional.

the drum n bass sound was similar to that early dubby artcore sound - that i have not heard in years. we are talking ala omni trio and also that track ...about a long dark tunnel. way back in time circa 1994/ 1995.

The thing that's more amazing to me is that it stayed so amazing for so long, if you think of it as starting as early as 1990 with SUAD and it carried on being exciting up til early 97 -- seven years is a staggeringly long period of time for a genre to stay ON IT. especially given how many producers were involved, exploring every possible permutation.

A lot depends on what you define the 'it' as -- i'd say "it" carries on with uk garage/2step/etc, and that d&B (like happy hardcore, and conceivably at some point 2step) is kind of like a husk-genre or old skin thrown off as the 'it' carries on its swervy expectation-confounding way. The It is so fertile it can just leave all these reasonably-thriving genres behind in its wake as it moves on to something new.

but to clear up the confusion a name change would definitely help - breaks-trance just about hits it on the head

Once or twice a year someone emails me and says d&B's on its way back, invariably providing a whole list of names and labels, but even though nyc's d&b store Breakbeat Science is only five blocks from my apt somehow i never get it together to check out if it's true. it's like... the moment's passed. just let it go.

conversly inspired by that rough guide ryan kuo posted, the usual carping about "mental breaks" being back, and simon and tim's complaints about the lack of "rhythmic danger", i went and checked out some late 03/very early 04 stuff. i posted about it on the blog, but basically i am still rathered underwhelmed. while there are a bunch of producers (breakage, paradox, amit, senses, calibre [sometimes]) and labels (insperspective, bassbin, breakin) that bear watching, the vast majority of twelves being released are squarely (rhythmically) in the two-step/chase scene/bosh bosh/rollin/whatever term-cliche you wanna se. and while it's good to see producers bringing in different flavas texturally (rnb, disco, trance, bossa, bootlegs) and adding vocals and mcing agiain, there is still SO MUCH POST-TECHSTEP SPACESHIP HUMMING OMG THE BORINGNESS.

the best of the "new breaks" brigade seem rather tentative about the whole thing. while, on the one hand, it's kind of nice, in a much evoked seeing an old girlfriend way, to hear the old mash-up return, i'm not sure to what end. the worst jungle tracks - to my mind - in the "classic" period were the ones that were just pointlessly convoluted. the best tracks, conversely, were the ones that constructed grooves: all the elements of the track interlocked, for a lack of a better word. whereas now they're just sort of un-intergrated...it's very flat, horizontal music, a music of layers rather than interlocking cogs. (strange too how naturalistic and jazzy, in the art blakey sense, a lot of the drum sounds are on these tracks.)

i guess my mad pipe dream for 2004 is a link up between the global underground ragga revival guys (soundmurderer et al) and the new breaks guys (breakage, etc.) to really re-ignite shit. there's a positive sub-trend of forlorn roots vocals/hornlines or ragga chat but nothing really as epic as anything soundmurderer or sk-1 have done. but the "real" dnb producers could probably reign in the margin walkers excesses. when it comes right down to it i'm not sure i'm not "wrong" for still hoping for some sort of revival. sadly there's just no dnb tracks i've heard from 03/04 (aside from my beloved "hotness" and that's down solely to the vocal performance) that can compare to wiley's "ice rink" or doogz "can't hold me down" or or or...

haha, oh breakbeat science...i dunno what's better: them calling it "speed garbage" or telling me to "check the crap section" when i asked about 2-step records circa 2000.

also, re lucky star: dillinja really is the perfect remixer for that tune.

mms://195.92.251.46/vids/2002dj1-100k.wmv

(paste the url into windows media player)

the WHO remix of WHAT?! (runs his ass to slsk)

*this loops a bit of a circa-'73 Nick Ingman library music lounge-jazz piece called "Throng" and doesn't really do much of anything with it, much less improve it.

1. Equinox - "Black Rain (Breakage Mix)"
2. Breakage - "So Vain"
3. Amit - "Roots"
4. Senses - "Expand Contract"
5. Paradox - "They Choose To Perplex"
6. Breakage - "Trans Bohemia"
7. Equinox - "The Sixth Spirit"
8. Density - "Who Wants Some?"
9. Ram Trilogy - "Screamer"
10. Raw Hill Cru feat. The Ragga Twins - "Who Di Who"

u-ziq's 'Johnny Maastricht' was, I thought, an excellent homage to the early days combining old mid 90s Warp with harsh Amen breaks with lashings and lashings of filtering, the latter being the only thing that makes it sound like it wasn't just produced ten years ago really - plus it had that 'prog-like' element, it's all very doom n' gloomy throughout until the break drops out towards the end, there's a slight build-up and then when everything comes back in the whole mood of the track seems to have changed with the new melody and although it's the same sounds it feels euphoric and celebratory.

his first lp, "37 degrees and falling" is one of my faves...

i think the hype around mid-90s d&b was unsustainable. with the power in the dj's hands, very few "artists" emerged to create any narratives for a wider audience to latch onto (unlike grime and modern hip hop, where the MC is the star).

so after you'd heard Roni, Alex Reece, Source Direct, Ed Rush, Optical and all those boys say "yeah we're part of an underground movement, we dj, make records, we own a lable" there wasn't much left to say.

so then d&b's audience began to crumble. the middle class students wondered what there was to mentally engage with anymore whereas the raver's wondered how you could dance to Photek.

i think jungle kinda asked itself what it was, and decided it was a dancefloor pleaser and nothing else. it set itself that goal as its objective. people who thought they were buying into a slab of "the future" or "the most innovative music ever" wondered were all the cleverness went?

this was because as Alex Reece's "Pulp Fiction" 2step pattern came in, it removed the practice of using breaks (as stevem talks about with Shadow Boxing). this left space in the tracks - to compensate they sped the genre up from mid 160 to mid 170bpm. the genre's structures became even more fixed and the emphasis became even more about the size of the bass drop. All those people who liked "Timeless"' scope or enjoyed the rhythmic intricacies of Photek thought "this is too innane/functional etc."

and that's why i think "current drum 'n' bass seen as inherently bad?" because some of the people who were sold the genre by the mid-90s hype didnt recognise what it was originally about, who made it, or where it was going...

anyway personally i still think there are some excellent sounds about with Equinox, 0=0, Breakage, Zero Tolerance, Version, Beta 2, Amit, Calibre and DJ Bailey all doing it for me

interesting to see the same issues discussed by people who _haven't_ given up

(t'raenon was the best ever)

when it stopped being 'jungle' in any sense of the word... and become entirely drum'n'bass... drum 'n' bass is a much more neutral word, technically descriptive, zero vibe, no evocations

another thing: the role of the MC faded away... especially here in America... so a whole level of vibe was removed... and a whole extra strand of syncopation and rhythmic energy

all part of the denegrification of the music obviously

>i think jungle kinda asked itself what it was, and decided it was a >dancefloor pleaser and nothing else

and yet, to me at least, post97 d&b is a lot less pleasing to dance to than the earlier stuff... the space to move in interesting ways t has been totally emptied out of the music... just a flatline propulsion... an aerobics workout

it really has turned into a kind of trance music i think, and on another thread someone saying that there's still a lot of people on the d&B scene doing E's, which figures -- cos you need somekind of massive artificial energy injection to dance for any length of time to 175+ bpm

They are all absolute drug guzzlers aswell, yes.

Difference is techno to me seems to be producing a hell of alot more records these days, and some good ones too. Though I'm not into dnb, I can see how someone would argue techno or house or whatever aren't far off the same position. Mind you house does have a steady stream of new releases which people do really dig.

this in itself is a point worth making. just as there's a zone of fruitless intensification, surely there's a point at which expanding track lengths just suck the energy out of a musical style. I mean, some of the greatest early jungle trax of all time were under five minutes, and this at a point when over five and just as often six minutes was the norm (for, you know, "mixing purposes"). (Remarc's "R.I.P." is something like 4:40.) isn't the norm these days more like eight?

hmmm, it is interesting how grime controls the london pirates but d&b is big in Ipswich, birmingham, manchester, bristol etc - which have comparatively smaller communities of other races compared to London

>and yet, to me at least, post97 d&b...

i have to say i'm not using 97 as an absolute cut off point - i mean late 90s generally...

>it really has turned into a kind of trance music i think, and on another thread someone saying that there's still a lot of people on the d&B scene doing E's, which figures -- cos you need somekind of massive artificial energy injection to dance for any >length of time to 175+ bpm

it's amazing to contrast this with grime where the beats are so minimal now because the energy comes from the bassline and the frenetic MCing. that said Sidewinder/Eski Dance raves are more like concerts than dances now. there's even a radio advert for a Jon E Cash night that says "no standing and screwing/ this is a rave not a concert"

[that's screwing as in screwfacing ie looking pissed off btw]

i don't mind long tunes but somethings got to happen in them.

The thing I like about that track is that while structurally formulaic (builds and drops, use of vocal) its done with a lightness of touch that is almost disco-like and while it keeps the muscularity of jungle, gives it that same girly edge that marky is so good at.

Because jungle/whatever you call it is clearly dead as a muso scene - it'll never live up to the demands of rhythmic experimentation that people want to place on it. But it still has the potential to be a great (ignored) pop dance scene.

early Virus was about the cutoff point where most of the music championed a pulse instead of a groove ... it was minimal and techno enough for the tempo to get that fast. the reason the new cut-up dnb usually sounds like Source Direct instead of Remarc is because a lot of these producers are literally taking 97-era Metalheadz and Reinforced as starting points to explore rhythmic territory again, as if they're picking up where jungle left off. Inperspective and Breakin crew especially.

the reason some of it sounds like big beat or live drum solos is, i think, solely attributable to Paradox, who has been doing this thing he calls 'drumfunk' since 99 (he was making tracks since at least 96 though) - live sounding drums paying tribute to the original funk breaks while (ideally) twisting them enough to sound electronic and inhuman (or superhuman) instead of just live. "Play Twice Before Listening" on Danny Breaks' Droppin Science label is probably the best example of that, although "They Choose to Perplex" is a few months newer and also good (jess you called this a minimal drum loop or something but what about the point where the second set of breaks comes in and stirs everything up?). so his whole sense of groove factors into a lot of tracks by Senses, Equinox, Fanu et al to some degree. i find it actually resembles sort of a hardcore/old-school hip-hop sensibility in the texture of the drums and the way the downward headnod aspect of breaks is privileged over the more fluid/tactile feeling you got from even techstep tracks from 97 ("Silver Blade", Boymerang etc but not No U Turn obviously), and the notably static bassline serves to intensify the percussion (see: aforementioned Paradox trax and "Odd Soul", Fanu "Defunct Drums Depression Decade", Senses "Darker Self", Fracture & Neptune "Normality Complex 1 & 2") rather than create an explicit interplay with it.

this sort of thing is played out at the Technicality night in London and it regularly sets off the dancefloor from what i've heard, but i gather the audience for it is mostly older junglists disgruntled by the past few years, meaning they are obsessed enough with breaks to get off to the music even if it's not insta-mental populist Krome & Time type choppity chop.

that's not to say it's the only new development in dnb thus far; the Offshore label has really quietly raised the bar, 0=0 finds a sort of middleground between idm/breakcore and dnb, there are growly cut-up tunes upcoming on Valve and Metalheadz, etc etc. as for Teebee, man has his output of late been disappointing or what. i really think he started that DOA thread because a) he heard a few random tunes and b) he's miffed that he ditched breaks before they became semi-trendy again.

well, 0=0's Mashed Up and Synaptic Plastic labels are putting out tracks by Soundmurderer as well as Breakage, Fanu, ASC (and also breakcore dudes like Enduser) ... i personally think Soundmurderer and SK-1 are too far on the revival side of things for the 'proper' guys to really take much influence though.

pick two of three:

a. turn it up or put on headphones
b. hear it in a dj set
c. smoke something nice

really don't agree with this assumption at all. i think their starting point is way before this...

is reinforced becoming the tuff, physical end of west london / broken beat (has it always been?) even as drum and bass is becoming the physical end of trance?

are we talking about the same Inperspective? gotta be the least repetitive producers out there. have you heard 0=0's "soul hunter testify's" ?

Fanu.
The 06' output of Offshore Records.
Seba and Paradox.
D-Bridge and Exit Recordings.

lol ¯\(°_o)/¯

Did I miss anything in '06?

-- Jordan (Jordan), Friday, February 9, 2007 4:01 PM (6 months ago)

Amit @ Breezeblock 2006

really like 'Be True' by Commix from late last year/early this year

that was earlier this year, btw-- awesome track.

Soul:r stuff tends to be good. i just dove into this scene a bit more, and i'm of the opinion that Calibre, Nu:Tone, Commix and Breakage are all doing great work at the moment.

Doc Scott - End Of The Beginning EP (31 Records)

probably the best d&b i've heard in a few years. total flashback to the classic jungle. two of the tracks, '9507' and 'tokyo dusk' are fantastic reworks of 'here come the drumz' and 'tokyo dawn.' the other two tracks, 'jungle jungle' and 'zulu dawn,' are superb as well.

Also: check out this guy Atlantic Connection, esp. the Lion Dub EP

ATLANTIC CONNECTION
"Tomrrow's Funk" mix

1. Can't Destroy Love feat. Minds One & DJ Noumenon - Westbay Recordings
2. Plastic People - Westbay Recordings
3. Leaving Home (Hollywood Mix) - Westbay Recordings
4. Rocksteady - Westbay Recordings
5. Grapevines feat. Makoto - Westbay Recordings
6. Reach Out - Spearhead Recordings
7. Relapse - Sonorous Music
8. Familiar Feelings - Dispatch Recordings
9. Last Thoughts - Creative Source
10. Situations - Dispatch Recordings

http://www.ncdnb.com/nathan/TOMORROWSFUNKmixfromAC.mp3

don't sleep on that amit set, it's heavy

>> really like 'Be True' by Commix from late last year/early this year
> that was earlier this year, btw-- awesome track.

is currently number 1 in bbc radio dnb chart (as heard on fabio / grooverider)

um, 2006. spent most of the first half of the year scouring ebay for old tech itch releases and the only new stuff (apart from the new tech itch releases which were, as usual, great) were:

desimal project 1 and 2
upbeats and noisia on virus
chameleon on virus (disappointing, ed rush and optical do pendulum)
skynet

(dnb such a nebulous term btw, i favour what sister ray is now calling 'terrorcore'(?!), your spor, your raidan, your ewun, your barcode stuff)

i did listen to fabio and grooverider every week (still do) but rarely hear anything that excites me. dubstep has pretty much eclipsed this now, for me - 'implant' = favourite thing of last year... http://www.tunetribe.com/Artist?artist_id=24300

the new 'mermaids' single by Muffler on Hospital is really airy and nice.

don't sleep on that amit set, it's heavy

wow, you weren't kiddin. dubstep with the energy/speed back in.

agreed it really is dubsteppy

what's klute doing these days, i think he and amit are affiliated?

agreed it really is dubsteppy

Amit ia a purveyor of one of drum'n'bass' miltiple sub-genres, namely Dubwise, along with guys like Digital. Has anyone here heard "Suicide Bomber" by Amit on Commercial Suicide from earlier this year - it utterly slays.

My top 3 this year would be the aformentioned Suicide Bomber, "Let it Happen" by Break and "Be True" by Commix. Commix's album is due very soon and has many dubplate only goodies on it such as the awesome "Strictly". I'm excited about it.

the new 'mermaids' single by Muffler on Hospital is really airy and nice.

I nearly love this, but there's a kind of overblown soft rock-ish cheesiness at the fringes that ruins it. "I Go" by Muffler, also on Commercial Suicide is a gem, however.

i need more dubstep like luke envoy's 'Gamma'. WHATCHA KNOW.

iain, to me, the new Muffler is less soft-rock than epic Vangelis, which is why i like it so much.

i am also excited for the new Commix album. btw, "clarendon" by Breakage got a 'massive tune' mention in Mixmag, which...well, is spot on. what a great track.

'Clarendon' sounds a grandiose affair

also iain, do you know anything about Nu:Tone? i've really been enjoying the singles i have.

i upped the version from Intalex's FarbricLive mix a few weeks ago on my blog, maybe i will up again for the sake of this thread.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5rxkft

uh, i think it might only have a day left on it, so jump to it.

i dunno if i'm feeling this amit the way everyone else is. another go at it starts now.

I like it, thx am0n. The beats hit a good double-time/half-time sweet spot.

Actually I like the 1st half, 2nd half is kinda boring

true but that last track before hobbs voice comes in is fire