Search and Destroy: Morrissey; Solo

Search: Viva Hate, Bona Drag and the singles of that time, Your Arsenal (hated by sterotypical Moz fans - why?), Vauxhall & I, Maladjusted (it's not all bad, honest) and a lot of B-sides.

Destroy: Kill Uncle (except for Our Frank, that's a good one), Southpaw (a drum solo on a Morrissey album - it'll never work) and some B-sides.

search - your arsenal, vauxhall and i, viva hate and bona drag destroy- kill uncle

Destroy: quite a lot unfortunately but "Pregnant For The Last Time" has always annoyed me and that court-case revenge-track which got left off Maladjusted over here is one of the most tragic and horrible things anyone has ever recorded, let alone Morrissey.

I really rather like Kill Uncle. It's definitely his Scooby Doo album but to hell with that: I like the light skiffley touches.

Vauxhall and I and Your Arsenal are all right, but I don't really believe in 'returns to form' when it comes to Morrissey. He just got rich, ran out of inspiration and exhausted his note books.

there may be a single or two worth salvaging but i really can't be convinced of it right now. and i'm an abject smiths fan.

And being so it's hard for me to pick out things -- utter lack of critical faculties here. My AMG entries for all the singles probably say more in this regard. But everyone has to hear "The Edges Are No Longer Parallel," which only ever surfaced on a B-side. Destroy...*scratches head*...uh...

Actually this raises an interesting question which I'll post elsewhere....

Nowadays I wouldn't defend it quite as heartily but I'd still listen to it before the bombastic "Your Arsenal" - the glam stompers are all very well but the ballads are really directionless and tuneless and "You're The One For Me, Fatty" is just a disaster.

As for why the fans listen - I think fans think of Moz sometimes like a well-respected soul singer. You know that a new Aretha or Al Green album, for example, is likely to be poor but you might end up listening out of respect and a wish to hear their voice even on dreadful material. Apply that impulse to a different genre and perhaps you've got some idea as to why some people still love Moz.

Morrissey solo...a patchy affair at best. There's no one album I would even suggest, except for Bona Drag, which does a good job of collecting the early (and many of the best) singles.

He's simply too inconsistent -- usually at least one absolute gem per album, but the rest tends to be pretty extraneous. I like more than what most consider reasonable, though.

Definitely destroy Bengali in Platforms, Ouija Board, You're the one for Me Fatty, and some other ones that are awful but not memorable enough for me to think of right off bat.

Nick Dastoor is absolutely right about one thing: VIVA HATE is by far the best 'proper' long-player.

But I am a tad confused about this 'S&D' concept: wasn't it meant to be about picking *one* thing for each category, not lengthily dividing the entire oeuvre in two?

Regarding "Alma Matters" in response to the other query -- the pun is feeble, but the song's enjoyable, and when I saw him do it live in 1997, it was really grand and the audience went nuts. So sorry, I have to allow for that one. ;-)

And it was absolutely awful, Ned! The worst kind of latter period Morrissey. It sounds like the only reason it goes on so long is he's still looking for a tune. And the lyrics! Morrissey's songwriting seems to have degenerated into singing the same banal line over and over again, or variants thereof, for want of anything resembling lyricism. This song seems to form part of his endless succession of non-specific moaning torchsongs, each of which sounds like a ham-fisted stab at an elegaic summation of his career. "My one big mistake is I'm hoping / My only mistake is I keep hoping etc etc." - yawn! And that "All of the things you said oh so meaningful / They are all so suddenly meaning-LESS". Wow, clever wordplay - cheers. I never thought Morrissey would end up making such artless miserablism. Is this Emo?

____

Troussé seems to me to have caught the spirit of the 'Search & Destroy' concept better than most - his answer would actually require a 'search' and justify a 'destruction'.

Could I request a spot of editorial clarification of 'S&D' procedure?

Destroy: EVERYTHING ELSE HE EVER DID. And hopefully the man himself too. God I loathe Morrissey.

Pick one (1) thing you would recommend searching for and one you want destroyed. A thing can be an album, track, single, tour, whatever. It must be musical!

If you pick an S you have to pick a D. And vice versa.

There you go!

Destroy: Loathsome 8 minute cover version of "Moon River".

Destroy: "Such A Little Thing Makes Such A Big Difference" (sticking to things that I know - I've never heard the last two studio albums, though I was tempted to put in "Sorrow Will Come In The End" purely on the basis of the words. SALTMSABD is terribly weak lyrically, with a feeble over-fussy arrangement and little in the way of a tune).

Anyway, I say: Search: "Vauxhall & I", "Bona Drag", Morrissey live with the Polecats, lots of songs off "Viva Hate" but not the album itself Destroy: [that song he did with Siouxsie Sioux], er that's it - although I don't like much of Morrissey's solo career I don't have the antipathy that so many others do to it.

Oh, sorry, this is the MORRISSEY thread, isn't it? Well, I have decided to have another crack at it.

Notes.

- I had forgotten about that cover of 'Moon River' - it really was a woefully wasted opportunity.

- It's true, 'Such A Little Thing' isn't great - and Steady M does a masterful job of naming - and indeed shaming - its shortcomings. But I still don't think it's quite *that* bad.

- I would agree with Stevie T, really, that 'King Leer' is probably as bad as it gets; and 'Asian Rut' strikes me as pretty awful too. But I've heard neither for years, and can't even remember how the former goes. So my final answer, with respect to all the other fascinating ones given, is:

SEARCH: "Sister, I'm A Poet" - one of those cases of an unaccountably good track being a B-side; really Smiths-vintage material, and the stonking video performance from '88 has a couple of old Smiths on it, if I'm not mistaken. One more run at that old scenario, 'malcontent youth in a dead-end provincial town', with details to remember and reuse: 'All over this way / outside the prison gates / I love the romance of crime / And I wonder does anybody feel the way I do?'. It's so unpredictably predictable, it's irresistible. And that's not to mention the music.

DESTROY: I think I have to plump for "Have-A-Go Merchant". The idea that it was about Natalie Merchant is not much sillier than the 'song' itself.

'Kill Uncle': Personaly, I find this album a vastly underappreciated album from Mr. Morrissey. It has long since been my belief that it's a case where too many people have followed the opinions of others to decide it's unjust fate. Sure, there are a couple of throwaways to be within 'Kill Uncle', but...no more than most any other pop/rock album. The solid tracks clearly and easily (in my mind) outweight those filler/throwaway tracks. The fact remains that, within 'Kill Uncle' can be found some of the most interesting tracks of Morrissey's solo career, along with some of the most weirdly bouncy/up tracks (such as "King Leer"). Out of the 10 official tracks (not counting "Tony the Pony") I count 7 from that 10 to be keeper quality tracks (with only "Our Frank", "Sing Your Life" and "Found Found Found" as being the weaker tracks) and...7 out of 10 ain't bad. Ain't bad, at all, for a pop/rock album.

The rest of Morrissey solo? Destroy. Sure, keep a single here and a single there, but.

Tom — abt a thousand years upthread — called it his "ScoobyDoo" alb. What mean this?

I'm one of those freaks who actually enjoy the sounds of a lost soul. Such as The Cure 'The Top' or Prince 'Around The World In A Day' or Leonard Cohen 'Death Of A Ladies Man' or the late 60's Brian Wilson tracks (and the album 'Love You') or some might even add Scott Walker 'Climate Of Hunter' or the ultimate sounds of a "lost soul" collection William Shatner 'The Transformed Man' (which, I know, is a different case altogether than the rest, but still...that Shatner album is the BigDaddy of "lost soul" albums, whoa) - such is the case with Morrissey 'Kill Uncle'.

So, there you have it. Just in case you were wondering "How in the hell could someone actually listen to, much less enjoy listening to, an album like 'Kill Uncle'."

A classic example of this and probably what she had in mind is my liking Metal Machine Music, Trans and Dazzle Ships bestest out of their creators' respective careers. (Though I do like the OMD singles stuff too)

Otherwise, search: VIVA HATE, YOUR ARSENAL.

destroy: KILL UNCLE

Not quite.

I hate to be predictable, but...

search: Individual songs
destroy: Albums
double destroy: All his worthless repackaging

destroy: viva hate (only if you have to choose between that and Bona Drag), Kill Uncle, Maladjusted, My Early Burglary Years (save "Cosmic Dancer")

Surprise (ie non-45, didn't-know-it-was-coming) highlight so far: 'Will Never Marry'! What an interesting track!

I'd forgotten Tom said this. Really great comment!

I love your post, PF. It's a great post! Pointing out that you love someone's post is a good thing and we should do it more often, especially on a Friday afternoon. So I did. And I applaud you for doing so.

x-post. Yes I think Tom's comment isn't quite spot-on when applied to Morrissey, but it's still a great observation that has made me think about my approach to some, ahem....long-standing favourites. (Of which Moz isn't one.) I think with Moz, Mexican nutjobs aside, there's a sense that it's all been said and done. With the Smiths and maybe to some extent his early solo career, there was a sense of anticipation about what he would say next, and about whom. Also a collective 'yes! yes! yes!' when he said it. 'Quarry' is better than expected, but pretty thin pickings really.

I wonder will M's new LP be better than the last.

I wonder does anyone agree about 'Will Never Marry' being a surprise great.

i'd love if someone zipped up the b-sides to You Are The Quarry, since i bought 2 versions before the version with the b-sides was released. And people complain about New Order!

'I was Morrissey's roadie'

Classic (the article, that is)!

That's for damn sure!

The flamenco claps and skipping are a crowning touch.

I got a leaked copy of the new Best Of... and actually like Moz now.

I want to hear Fugazi do a cover of "I Just Want to See the Boy Happy"

Search: this Valentine's Day post:

--

Search: "Suedehead" (just edging out "Vauxhall & I"; not much to pick over here lyrically [but it's a fabulous vocal; for such a revered wordsmith, his wordless vocalising is/was one of his best features], but nothing puts the heart in the mouth from his post-Smiths career like that blinking-into-the-morning-sun intro).
Destroy: "Such A Little Thing Makes Such A Big Difference" (sticking to things that I know - I've never heard the last two studio albums, though I was tempted to put in "Sorrow Will Come In The End" purely on the basis of the words. SALTMSABD is terribly weak lyrically, with a feeble over-fussy arrangement and little in the way of a tune).

-- Michael Jones, Wednesday, 14 February 2001 Bookmark Link

In fact, Mike's 'Destroy' serves as a perfect candidate for Nabisco's new rule: "a feeble over-fussy arrangement and little in the way of a tune" -- over-elaborate 'structure / dynamics': bad for M.

Crikey, 'Yes, I Am Blind' is super! The music is quite complicated, but has a nice Marr-imitation dimension. The vocal is odd, light, young - he couldn't sing that way now. I don't know, he did make good B-sides, once upon a time.

"Yes, I Am Blind" may be almost self-parodic in its misery-wallowing, but it's a damn fine song regardless.

and my goodness, 'Lucky Lisp' would now be the best thing on a new M. LP. That keyboard phrase descending through the clambering chorus!

"What is classical is what we all agree on, and I think we all acknowledge Hyde Park festivals as important events. I am honoured to be asked to headline on July 4th, marking my 26th year haunting British music, and following the Hyde Park greats - T.Rex, Joan Armatrading, and someone with insecure teeth. I promise a thundering bill of tight nerves and suavity and all your favourites from Disc magazine. I will take Hyde Park like a flea inhabits a dog. Art-hounds and people with badly cut hair are very welcome. I shall do my utmost not to pull a sour face. The sun will make up its own mind. It is, of course, the day when America celebrated its independence from Sidcup, but we can easily reverse that situation with a bit of John Mills stiff-upperness. Bring your own lodging-house towels, but don't expect any three-shrimp appetizers."

i just realised the bass playing on "you're the one for me fatty" is really good, listen to it. it's carrying the whole arrangement.

i had no idea that shostakovich ripped off a track from southpaw grammar in his 5th symphony. i'm listening to it now. morrissey should totally sue!

Not as much as most classical composers thieved from Freddie Mercury.

Wugh:

Morrissey's gig at the Oasis Leisure Centre in Swindon tonight has been halted after the former Smiths frontman collapsed on stage.

The Mancunian star opened the set with his classic song 'This Charming Man' and fell to the floor before he could begin his second. He was stretchered off the stage by medical staff.

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8172/ishackimageu.jpg

:/

(from http://www.swindonweb.com/event/?m=976&s=986&ss=0&c=6419&t=Morrissey+collapses )

I have been to lots of parties
and acted perfectly disgraceful
but I never actually collapsed
oh Morrissey we love you get up

I have been v. worried about him since he canceled all of those tour dates earlier this year due to health reasons, all of the celebrity deaths this year have made me nervous.

seems a surprisingly quiet thread ...

i've been worried about moz since this album cover was revealed
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2b/Morrissey_swords_album_cover.JPG
obviously feelin' tired!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLUI7IGb38

good shot

One thing thrown at him and he's gone? What a (what's the male form of diva?) divo.

doing his bit for scouse/manc relations. the most common word outside the venue was 'C-nt' acoording to local sources.

no wonder he's got no friends.

How about the people who are upset in the crowd find the c_nt who threw the bottle and beat them until they're nearly dead. That would be the last time that person threw a bottle during a concert. Instead they're going to complain about an artist not wanting to get hit in the head with flying objects while trying to perform.

Maybe just rough him up a bit and use some curse words, no need to go crazy.

Morrissey on Desert Island Discs:

New York Dolls: (There's Gonna To Be A) Showdown
Marianne Faithfull: Come And Stay With Me
The Ramones: Loudmouth
Lou Reed and The Velvet Underground: The Black Angel's Death Song
Klaus Nomi: Der Nussbaum
Nico: I'm Not Saying
Iggy and the Stooges: Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell
Mott The Hoople: Sea Diver

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/did/did_20091129-1200a.mp3

What, no Twinkle?

New York Dolls: (There's Gonna To Be A) Showdown

lol bbc

What book and luxury did he pick, can't be arsed listening to the whole thing.

He would have picked the same eight records if he'd done Desert Island Discs every week since he became famous.

Swords is basically a collection of the worst music he's ever done. nice that it's in once place so you can avoid it more easily.

Book: Complete works of Oscar Wilde
Luxury: a bed (or a bag of sleeping pills, he joked)

He seems to have taken the exercise awfully seriously.

I only heard the end of this but I thought he was quite amusing, "I'm sorry to say this Kirsty, but 'Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell'". Anyway, he picked "Sea Diver" by Mott the Hoople and it was played in its entirety, so well done Mozzer and well done BBC.

"I'm sorry to say this Kirsty, but 'Your Pretty Face Is Going to Hell'"

Keep hearing this in Alan Partridge's voice.

... more like Eric Pickles' voice, tbh

Book: Complete works of Oscar Wilde

surprise surprise

could be as entertaining as keef's or dylan's

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/apr/22/morrissey-autobiography-finished

Another day, things said:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/morrissey-2014-retirement-smiths-333294

After 30 years in the music business, former Smiths frontman and independent music luminary Morrissey revealed plans Friday to retire at the age of 55. The 53-year-old singer said that he wants to leave the business after “aging a lot recently.”

“I am slightly shocked to have gone as far as I have,” Morrissey said in an interview with JuiceOnline.com. “This is my 30th year, and I’ve aged a lot recently, which is bit distressing for me, as it must be for everyone. The body changes shape and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

...

Morrissey indicated he was unsure whether or not he could endure as an aging pop vocalist. “Do I continue as a modern day Andy Williams? I take one hour at a time,” he said. “We will all probably be blown up by the Syrian government soon, anyway, so it hardly matters in the great scheme of things.”

“We will all probably be blown up by the Syrian government soon, anyway, so it hardly matters in the great scheme of things.”

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzex5sdSQi1qh4box.gif

man i had no desire to see morrissey live really but he's playing the legendary Surf Ballroom in Clear Lake, Iowa (Pop. 7000), where Buddy Holly played his last show.

It's about an hour from my hometown, in the heart of farm country. I have zero idea who the fuck is going to show up, also it's just an old-school dancehall, like huge cavernous room, general admission probably....damn...that could be bizarre.

my homeland is not exactly anglophile country.

very tempted to go then drive back and stay at my mom's house.

https://www.surfballroom.com/currentevents.html

dope live Still Ill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2W4lWfP-_g&feature=related

Apparently he came on stage in Manchester in July wrapped in the Israeli flag - it wasn't just the Tel Aviv gig...

I really wish he would do a cover of "No Reply" by the Beatles. If you change the beat to something more 80s you can easily imagine the Smiths doing it:

This happened once before
When I came to your door
No reply
They said it wasn't you
But I saw you peep through your window

I saw the lie, I saw the lie
I know that you saw me
As I looked up to your face

I tried to telephone
They said you were not home
That's a lie
Cos I know where you've been
I saw you walk in your door

I nearly died, I nearly died
Cos you walked hand in hand
With another man in my place

If I were you'd realise that I
Love you more than any other guy
And I'll forgive the lies that I
Heard before when you gave me no reply

I've tried to telephone
They said you were not home
That's a lie
Cos I know where you've been
I saw you walk in your door

I nearly died, I nearly died
Cos you walked hand in hand
With another man in my place

No reply, no reply

It seems deadly obvious. "I nearly diiiiiied!" Also you know Moz would throw in some faux laughing for "That's a lie-ha-ha-ha-ie"

I'm already hearing it with a Glamorous Glue type backing.

http://noisey.vice.com/blog/when-morrissey-ruined-bill-cosbys-appearance-on-the-tonight-show

Great article. I can imagine a lot people tuning in who'd never heard of Morrissey, then seeing him do "Sing Your Life" and thinking "all that fuss over this guy??" (And I really like "Sing Your Life".)

Moz really in very fine voice in that "Still Ill" clip upthread. Also lol at the ad lib ("England's a swine and it owes me a living"--and this years before Brexit!!)

he sounds great in that "Sing Your Life" clip. I forget he's out of tune.

thanks for the link JD that piece is amazing/baffling/hilarious. i can't believe Cosby was still that big after Leonard Part 6.

Since this seems to be the most recently updated Morrissey thread: he's got new tour dates announced in the US, Australia, and Japan. Tickets for the US shows going on sale this week, presales start tomorrow.

so when he comes to my town he'll be playing in a seated theater next door to the GWB library? :/

On the bright side, he's coming to your town!

I think his new Pretenders cover is garbage.

he was hit in the face by a fan in san diego a few days ago, has this been discussed? he was rushed off the stage and didn't return, his condition was unknown but presumably ok

The first thing I thought of was an electric fan, and I was about about make a joke, then I realized, oh, you meant a human fan.

it's all cool, he was just trying to hug the Master

https://www.facebook.com/carlos.rodriguez.9809672/posts/10204916290424206

Cue old joke of it being a case of the fan hitting the shit.

omg xp

Listening to an old Morrissey compilation, I reflect.

1: up a certain point, you could make a solid compilation of M highlights, which were often not outstanding but catchy and memorable. I suspect this is not true of the second half of his career.

2: the prevalence of voice samples and sound FX in M's records has never quite been articulated, that I have seen. It's not really present in the Smiths records. It partly indicates 'kitchen sink atmosphere' or the like, OK. Its disruptions are a frequent part of the texture.

3: 'hold on to your friends' reminds me that this song and 'you're gonna need someone on your side' seem like addresses to himself, or warnings that *should* have been to himself but that he didn't realise should be. The advice of these titles is good, but he was not good at following it.

4: 'interesting drug' (Spring 1989!) comes in with such energy and represents a different era - one in which M thought he was, and others (he Kirsty MacColl) thought he was, on the political Left. I think it's one of his greatest solo achievements.

More generally I feel that the BONA DRAG era is an interesting moment - M between greatness (Smiths) and decline, already on the verge of battling irrelevance (but still guaranteed an NME front cover if he wanted one), but making singles that were, at least in 'content', strange and challenging. No one else addressed drugs, disability, gay prostitution and seances in 4 successive (?) singles in 1989-90. And the actual records are often still compelling - 'Piccadilly Palare' at least.

I've never given more than a cursory listen to anything post Maladjusted, but the Maladjusted album itself is really good, the title track is one of the best indie Phil Spector wall of sound homages I can think of, it doesn't just sound kitschy, it got that real sense of hysteria that the best Spector records had. There's a quote from the Rolling Stone review of Death of a Ladies Man where they say "Too much of the record sounds like the world's most flamboyant extrovert producing and arranging the world's most fatalist introvert" and I think Maladjusted sounds like that to an extent.

It's a pity he took Roy's Keen off the reissue, I think it's one of his best solo singles - something about the Robin Askwith cheeky-chappy window cleaner and Roy Keane's menacing, grim-faced hardman as contrasting types of old fashioned working class masculinity, and combining this into this dreamy reverie, no-one else around at the time would have made a single like that.

I agree that that title track has something. From a Stevenage overspill.

And if you happen to quite like solo Morrissey tracks, then I agree that much of the LP has qualities - 'trouble loves me' for instance.

I think I like 'Lost' (B-side of ... 'Roy's Keen'?) more than any track on the actual LP.

I love the video for Sunny, homoerotic bullying, Jules et Jim recast with a yob and a spanner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqnBTZbuno

Never seen that before!

Morrissey really used to think that West Ham United was a poignant and romantic reference point.

On reflection I think his 'West Ham era' was a bad sign and an impetus to detach from him. His East End fascination never made much sense to me, in relation to where he'd come from.

2: the prevalence of voice samples and sound FX in M's records has never quite been articulated, that I have seen. It's not really present in the Smiths records. It partly indicates 'kitchen sink atmosphere' or the like, OK. Its disruptions are a frequent part of the texture.

I feel like there are lots of references to audiences in Morrissey's lyrics, particularly solo era, and this is connected somehow, like the crowd in Boxers or the pupils and their parents in The Teachers Are Afraid Of The Pupils, or the cheering/jeering audience at the ned of Disappointed -this self consciousness, like all of his existence is a constant public performance in front of an audience (i.e. everyone who's not Morrissey) that's always on the brink of jeering distain, constant risk of public humiliation. This is maybe a symptom of some kind of dysfunctional narcissism?

The audiences stuff also relates to all the focus on fans and their relationships with their idols, and him sometimes switching places between the admirer and the admired within the songs (it seems notable that when he started his solo career the pictures of his idols that used to appear on the Smiths's record sleeves were replaced by pictures of himself in a similar style) - this common thing of teenage rock fandom where you simultaneously want to fuck your idol and want to *be* your idol, I guess this ambiguity was a semi-tolerated form of homoerotica in a more homophobic age, and Morrissey seems like he was always an inhibited and solitary type anyway.

xp isn't the whole east end skinhead yob thing partly just that he's attracted to the kind of lads who used to bully and torment him as a youth, this simultaneous desire and repulsion? Films about the working class from his golden era of the 50s/early 60s would more often than not focus on cockneys, so they maybe have a bit of movie stardust about them from his pov, versus northern yobs

In 'Piccadilly Palare' - who says 'you can't go down that way. Follow me' ?

Suggs

Knew he was on the record, wasn't sure he said that bit!

Had a delicious time tearing down and binning a big Morrisey tour flyposter in camberwell last week, one of the most satisfying things i've done in a while, very much recommend

this common thing of teenage rock fandom where you simultaneously want to fuck your idol and want to *be* your idol

I think this ambiguity is key to all of Morrissey's lyrics and his focus on the boy who refuses to grow up and become a man, or is incapable of growing up and becoming a man, with all it's attendant responsibilities. Celibacy was key to his persona because consummating a sexual relationship would mean choosing between wanting to sleep with the idol or wanting to be the idol, he would have to cease to be his own love object, by refusing to become a man, refusing sexual maturity he can continue to dream and idolise - "I don't dream about anyone except myself". Or in There Is A Light That Never Goes Out where there's this fantasy of dying just before the moment of consummation and remain forever on the brink, in that moment where something is about to happen, life is about to begin.

And the fascination with jack-the-lad types and yobs and thugs is his idea that they're men who just go out and live, without reflection, without dreams, as opposed to him who can only reflect but can't live - but the jack-the-lads come to a sticky end, living and becoming a man inevitably ends with death, choosing not to live you have the fantasy of eternally prolonging the moment where life is about to begin, keep desiring by never consummating - like on Tomorrow - 'All I ask of you is one thing that you'll never do/Would you put your arms around me?' 'You don't think I'll make it/I never said I wanted to'. The celebration of failure is a desire to refuse sexual maturity, refuse to become a man, like the sample of Anthony Newley at the start of Maladjusted- "On this glorious occasion, of the splendid defeat."

I remember reading a nabisco post on here about Morrissey, I can't find it but I think the gist was that Morrissey could not have succeeded at anything other than being a pop star, there was no plausible plan b, I think he said something like if he hadn't become a pop star he'd be a weird guy staring at you from across the room in a flop house or something, which seems correct to me. I imagine a Morrissey who didn't become a pop star ending up something like the life sketched out for Posner at the end of Alan Bennett's The History Boys (the stage version, the film script is divereges significantly at this point)

'only one who truly took everything to heart...the words of Hector never forgotten.'

'He lives alone in a cottage he has renovated himself, has an allotment and periodic breakdowns. He haunts the local library and keeps a scrapbook of the achievements of his one-time classmates and has a host of friends.... though only on the internet, and none in his right name or even gender. He has long since stopped asking himself where it went wrong.'

Posner never successfully navigates the transition from boyhood to manhood, to sexual maturity, he's crippled by staying true to Hector's teachings, he can only love from a distance, is incapable of growing or changing - it reminds me of so many Morrissey lyrics about a love object who is far away and actually living while Morrissey remains because he can't really live, because can't grow up, he can't change, can't move forward, stays eternally true to his teenage dreams- 'I'm here, I won't move/I'm here, I won't move/I'm here, I will not move' 'I've always been true to you/In my own strange way, I've always been true to you/In my own sick way, I'll always stay true to you'

consummating the relationship is both desired and dreamed about but also feared because it would mean ending the dream and becoming a man. The first Smiths album is bookended with Reel Around The Fountain and Suffer Little Children, and the first of these is the desire side (it's time the tale were told of how you took a child and you made him old) and the latter is the fear and horror - I don't think Suffer Little Children is really about the moors murders except as a metaphor, it's about this horror of growing up and leaving behind childhood, childhood violently separated from adulthood in a way that means you leave a crucial part of yourself forever behind - (you might sleep, you might sleep, you might sleep but you will never dream),

(He was 23 when the first album was recorded, I think, which is maybe about the limit of how long you can successfully delay manhood, and I there's a real desperation on that first album where he doesn't know if he is actually going to manage to become a pop star and is aware that time is running out.)

Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others - I remember reading someone complaining that this was one of the best pieces of music that Marr wrote, and Morrissey wastes it with silly, frivolous lyrics, but I think it's heartfelt - the horror at sexually maturity as this squalid thing that you are inevitably initiated into like all the generations before and after you and have to give up your childhood dreams, the 'send me your pillow/the one that you dream on/and I'll send you mine' as a wish that you could fulfil the desire to connect to the other and still maintain the dream

Is 'my love life' the weakest Morrissey 45 of its era?

The earliest solo 45s are classic. Even later ones like 'our Frank' retain some personality, even if they're not exactly good. But 'my love life' is more like an excuse for a song, an absence of song.

I see that it reached 29 in the UK!

And, remarkably:

"My Love Life" was reviewed in NME by John Peel as the "best one he's [Morrissey] made in a long time" and the song was described as "catchy, romantic [and] endearing".[6] In a retrospective reception, Ned Raggett of AllMusic called the song "a gentler ramble in comparison to things like the live "Sing Your Life," and though the lyrics are a bit curious (Morrissey asking for a ménage à trois?), the performance is a fine one all around."

Booming posts, soref.

yeah wow amazing writing soref, I think you really get to the core

very apprehensive to give him any credit these days. however, there was a very strong sense of "universe" — especially on those early singles. i often think of those initial years of his solo career as when he really got to be FULL MORRISSEY for the first time. i mean, yes he's a prick now. but i think soref did a fine job illustrating why he continued to be just as relevant after the smiths (at least initially): he had the tunes.

i've often thought that his run of singles (lp and non-lp) from 88 until about 93 was a pretty impressive and consistent one. even the b-sides on that material were better than some of the a-sides that followed. i think "my love life" is a bit "lite" but it's still his best band and, even if it's brief, i really like chrissie hynde's cameo. think my favorite thing he ever did is probably "the loop." full force bigot morrissey backed by the polecats and out and about in the early 90s, wondering aloud if anybody still loves him. the cocky fella doesn't even bother to ask a question; "one day if you're bored" is the proposition. long vamps, so you get plenty of time to mull over your answer. it's one of those songs that's almost too self-aware. classic tremolo`d out guitar riff — man! i've never hated to love someone so much.

what is the general thought about "sister i'm a poet"?

(because for me it's simultaneously one of his most representative tunes, as far as his own mystique-building went, and an absolute fucking bop especially live)

"Sister I'm a Poet" is a jam.

So is "Girl Least Likely To":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFqOpkBRLDs

I love "sister I'm a poet". I think everyone who likes Morrissey's records does.

This from poster Soref - "so many Morrissey lyrics about a love object who is far away and actually living while Morrissey remains because he can't really live, because can't grow up, he can't change, can't move forward, stays eternally true to his teenage dreams" - is close to Reynolds' analysis in the late 1980s (and I thus tend to agree with it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wylmch3crjI

good posts, soref.
"Held in the custody of childhood is a locked chest; the adolescent, by one means or another, tries to open it. The chest is opened: inside, there is nothing. So he reaches a conclusion: the treasure chest is always like this, empty. From this point on, he gives priority to this assumption of his rather than to his reality. In other words, he is now a “grown-up.” Yet was the chest really empty? Wasn’t there something vital, something invisible to the eye, that got away at the very moment it was opened?" - Mishima, who also ended up a right wing nutjob

I like how the word poet doesn't actually appear in the song and you just get 'sister I'm a -', this kind of innuendo is integral to Morrissey, it's impossible to imagine an out and proud Morrissey.

I remember reading something Tom Ewing wrote on freaky trigger about this interview from the late 80s with Jimmy Somerville where Somerville was taking the Pet Shop Boys to task for how they would write songs that alluded to homosexuality, but were never explicit about it, there was always ambiguity, and as far as Somerville was concerned this was a dereliction of duty, in the context of the time this kind of 'playfulness' was a luxury that gay people couldn't afford. And Tom Ewing was talking about how he felt conflicted because he respected Somerville's position, but also he generally found the PSB's ambiguity and elusiveness more artistically satisfying that most of Somerville's more agit-prop stuff, which I think a lot of people would agree with. Smalltown boy and it's video being an exception, which is powerful because it's not an allusion, not a metaphor, it shows explicitly some of the stuff that is alluded to in Morrissey's lyrics - that your revealing of your feelings to the object of your affection may result in anger and violence, alienation from your parents. smalltown boy video ends on a hopeful note, Jimmy arrives in the big city and the other members of Bronski Beat appear and greet him and they go off smiling together, it end with a freeze frame of one of the Beat pointing ahead and and there's this suggestion that he's found a place in this community, and will have real relationships, real dancing, real sex, actually living, the kind of thing it's impossible to imagine in a Morrissey song or video, instead of looking ahead to a liberal future he's looking back and romanticizing an even more closeted past. the rejection of growing up, and sexual maturity, and becoming a man is partly that 'becoming a man' = becoming a heterosexual man, and there's this old fashioned idea that homosexuality itself is a kind of arrested development, but I think the rejection of sexual maturity isn't just a rejection of heterosexuality, but also a rejection of homosexual sexual maturity, because that would also mean having to commit and give something up instead of endlessly prolonging the period of your life where you're a teenager dreaming about what your life could be like. Left To My Own Devices by the PSBs seems like it's about this same thing of refusing to be pinned down or defined and prolonging the moment where you're about to start living but never actually living

The Stephen Street years were great, and prob. better than anything the Smiths would've come up with if they'd carried on, I think. Some of the Mark Nevin stuff is good too, esp. "Pregnant for the Last Time". The last thing of his I really liked before I got off the bus was "Nobody Loves Us".

the 'sister I'm a -, sister I'm a -' reminds me a bit of You Could Drive A Person Crazy' where the singers speculate about what exactly is 'wrong' with Bobby - is he gay? is he impotent? is he crazy? is he a sadist?, in a way that feels very Morrissey to me, and ties into this old-fashioned figure that doesn't really exist anymore, from the era before gay pride and relative openness about homosexuality, of the man who is 'off' in some ambiguous way that is never quite defined or definable - you see this type in the old movies that Morrissey loved so much, these characters than are maybe laughable or maybe sinister or sometimes both, and there's a hint that gay sex or desire may be part of this, but it's always elusive and ambiguous, their alienation from the world is not clearly defined. I think this kind of figure was starting to die out in the era of the Smiths as homosexuality became something that was discussed more openly, and Morrissey seems to identify with these figure and be nostalgic for that era, maybe because never growing up is easier when you can never be clearly defined.

(I wonder if the lyrics for Maladjusted were inspired by You Could Drive A Person Crazy - 'Maladjusted, never to be trusted' You're a moving, deeply maladjusted, never to be trusted, crazy person yourself')

'all I ask of you is the one thing that you'll never do' always makes me think of Marry me a Little from Company - 'you promise whatever you like, I'll never collect', but at the end of company in Being Alive Bobby resolves to stop dreaming his life away and start actually living

full force bigot morrissey backed by the polecats and out and about in the early 90s

while it's natural to want to believe his politics started a downward turn at the same time that I start to find his music less compelling, the fact is that "Bengali in Platforms" still might be his meanest, most problematic tune and that's squarely in the peak solo era...and stuff like "reggae is vile"...his dissembling about "hang the DJ", nasty things he said about black pop and R&B artists of the 80s....the reality is that it was always hiding in plain sight. the Smiths and his early solo career means a lot to me, it's all very hard to square.

for a lot of his career the racism was expressed with the same kind of ambiguity as the references to homosexuality, the 'of all the rumours keeping me grounded, I never said that they were completely unfounded' lyrics from Speedway, or the ambiguity of something like National Front Disco where it's not clearly an endorsement or a condemnation - there's this almost 'playful', teasing quality to it (of course he's been more unambiguous about where he stands more recently). The rejection of change, of moving forward and growing up feels difficult to separate from the racism

xp to ums

I feel exactly the same, it’s almost impossible to do death of the artist when the person and the music are so intertwined.

appreciate that ums —and all very relevant— but was referencing the infamous "moz sings whilst draped in union jack flag" incident which was 92 iirc? right around when "the loop" came out.

i've always wanted to ask a question about morrissey but have never felt like i'm not crossing a boundary by thinking it. i'm going to ask anyway, but please know: this is coming from a place of genuine curiosity and i only bring it up because it ties into the theme of "moz refuses to grow up." i've assumed he identifies as gay but has never been as out as say george michael because that's just his persona, i.e. "mystery surrounds pop star" narrative sells headlines (full speed ahead with "no plan b"). anyway— was part of his whole deal back then "i'm gay and i hate myself because of that"??? kind of making himself "the joke." that self-deprecation, i guess. really dug that about him; the ending of "disappointed" is a very classic moz moment in that regard.

I like the defiance of Pashernate Love - not 'I don't understand love' but 'love doesn't understand ME', and the elusiveness and rejection of his place in the process of reproducing the generation, rejection of physical love for tantalisingly unreachable love that is somewhere else -his feelings and desires are not tied up in real-world relationships, but rather tied up in dreams and fantasies, in pop records and old movies - he can't connect with the people around him, can only connect with his pop idols via their stardom, so as he ages his only option for connecting with anyone is to become a pop star himself, so he can continue this idol/fan connection, but this time as the idol. 'send me your pillow/the one that you dream on/and I'll send you mine' is a description of this idol/fan relationship, connecting at the level of dreams rather than connecting at the physical level.

I think the idol thing where you both want to be the lover of your idol and want to BE your idol is why in a lot of the songs it's unclear if he's singing about himself or someone else, or if he's singing about his fans , or himself as a teenager when he was a fan, or both, and there's this hall of mirrors effect. Like in Ouija Board, Ouija Board where it's unclear if he's talking to someone else or just himself (no, I was NOT pushing that time)

I guess you could read ouija board, ouija board as being about trying to connect with your lost teenage self by listening to old pop records, the connection between the occult an old pop records is also made in Rubber Ring with the sample at the end which I think is from a recoding purporting to be voices of the dead speaking from the other side.

I think a lot of early Morrissey interviews and coverage where he’s described as yearning for an England that never existed was passed off so uncritically at the time. Like what was so wrong with the England that did exist that he seemed to be in mourning for it? He hated the Tories but he steadily moved from just hinting at the stuff he meant to sounding like a slightly less eloquent Enoch Powell.

Btw I always thought National Front Disco, more so than many of his songs, is quite clearly in character, the parents sound fearful and ashamed. You’ll Never Know, also on Your Arsenal, was more ambiguous as it was from the point of view of racist football thugs (oh he loved that aesthetic) but the song ends on an ominous note that directly undercut the whole song’s narrative.

That’s probably the most interesting contrast to me: the ambiguity of the singer v the certainty of the person, and how much could be argued over until it couldn’t.

There’s racism in some of his songs as mentioned above but honestly I think that NME interview that he sued them for(?) in 2007 and other older pronouncements outside the songs are (obviously) the most damning and it was pretty shocking to me see Dave Simpson defend the Enoch Powell interview with this withering apologism in the Guardian:

In fact, as NME know full well, the singer has been hankering back to a nostalgic, almost mythical England of tea rooms and bowler hats as long ago as the Smiths. He has displayed infuriatingly Philistine tendencies in unwelcome statements like "All reggae is vile".
But while he may be old-fashioned, reactionary and remarkably, stubbornly resistant to our changing world and probably shouldn't have allowed himself to be embroiled in all this again, I am not convinced that he is anything more dangerous than his own famous description of himself as an "arcane old wardrobe".

i've assumed he identifies as gay but has never been as out as say george michael because that's just his persona, i.e. "mystery surrounds pop star" narrative sells headlines (full speed ahead with "no plan b"). anyway— was part of his whole deal back then "i'm gay and i hate myself because of that"??? kind of making himself "the joke."

I considered it classic UK ambiguity, and for a while the lyrics and melodies supported the stance; then that joke wasn't funny anymore. When wit is severed from curiosity it isn't long before the imagination shrivels and dies.

My grand unified theory of morrissey is that he is fundamentally just not very bright, and this has always been obvious, but because he wrote a few funny lines & a bunch of writers developed a crush he was painted as one of the great minds of his generation & not just another gobshite singer saying whatever

& this is all happening in papers he read since childhood, it’s not surprising he got worse

It's not that he's not bright; it's that most clever people he read just enough, hence the gradual erosion of his curiosity.

*it's that like most

He always seemed incurious is what I’m saying!

Curious within very narrow parameters which is the same

oh I see!

Yeah when he was going on about how you don’t hear English spoken in Knightsbridge or whatever (🙄) I just thought, he really has not taken two seconds to think about London’s why’s and how’s, just reacted with disgust.

In the early '90s a reporter would note the appearance of this or that Dickens novel on Morrissey's hotel desk: Our Mutual Friend, Bleak House, etc. Even at the time I thought the novels were decorative -- imagine reading Dickens w/out a tenth of his empathy rubbing off.

You just hear him talk and he seems like… a dunce. Not serious. And always has to me, even when putting forth positions that should be easy to argue like vegetarianism

My acquaintance with his racism began when Chris Heath asked him in a '92-era Details interview about gospel. "To listen to poor Black people in Birmingham, Alabama? No, thank you," he said. With so many ways to say "No, I don't listen to gospel" he chose the deliberately "provocative" one, an ancestor of and adjacent to right wing AM radio provocation (e.g. Rush Limbaugh playing "Obama the Magic Negro," etc.).

"It's not that he's not bright; it's that most clever people he read just enough, hence the gradual erosion of his curiosity."

FWIW I think that's a good statement. M was "literate" by pop standards but compared to, say, most people on message board I Love Books he probably doesn't actually read that many books. And it's fine to specialise and stick to what you like, but I also agree about a lack of "curiosity" - or as I also tend to say, he's been surrounded by Yes-men and hasn't really been challenged by people close to him.

Yeah that kind of unpleasantness (also always there) is tbf separate from what I glibly called my unified theory xp

Agree with Fetter that there was good material late 1980s, and think Soref makes a good observation about the ambiguity of "Sister I'm a". I suppose the song does continue the "Wildean criminal" vein with its verse about the prison.

'all I ask of you is the one thing that you'll never do' always makes me think of Marry me a Little from Company - 'you promise whatever you like, I'll never collect', but at the end of company in Being Alive Bobby resolves to stop dreaming his life away and start actually living

On a Sondheim tip, the line "You are repressed but you're remarkably dressed" always makes me think of "what if none of their souls were saved? They went to their maker impeccably shaved."

I think "You are repressed but you're remarkably dressed" moght've been Morrissey's peak, tbh.

You just hear him talk and he seems like… a dunce. Not serious. And always has to me, even when putting forth positions that should be easy to argue like vegetarianism

― piedro àlamodevar (wins), Sunday, March 26, 2023 11:44 AM

moz kind of a classic example of a child who begs for the room's attention and then has nothing of interest to share when he gets it. maybe being a loudmouth racist is his version of doing armpit fart noises out of desperation?

M was "literate" by pop standards but compared to, say, most people on message board I Love Books he probably doesn't actually read that many books

https://img.gifglobe.com/grabs/darkplace/S01E01/S01E01-OFmdl7gI-subtitled.jpg

sounding like a slightly less eloquent Enoch Powell

I was going to say something about Enoch Powell before wrt the 'connecting at the level of dreams rather than connecting at the physical level' thing - I remember an interview with Powell where he's talking about the end of the British Raj in metaphysical terms - he says something about an Englishman and an Indian both sitting down to sleep beneath the same tree, and they both dream the same dream. He also said that his greatest regret was not dying in WWII, had this strong attachment to A Shropshire Lad and this idea of the boy who dies young and never grows old (Powell studied under Housman) which is maybe overlaps with some of Morrissey's concerns, all those songs referencing an early death as an alternative the horror of growing up. Maybe there's some connection in personality type

the lyrics of National Front Disco echo Suffer Little Children (your mum says 'I've lost my boy' - A woman said: 'I know my son is dead, I'll never rest my hands on his sacred head'), the lost boys from Peter Pan are very Morrissey like characters

You just hear him talk and he seems like… a dunce. Not serious. And always has to me, even when putting forth positions that should be easy to argue like vegetarianism

― piedro àlamodevar (wins), Sunday, 26 March 2023 19:44 (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I agree with this - I read an interview once with Mark Nevin from Fairground Attraction where he was talking about working with Morrissey, and it started with him being asked to send demo tapes in before the two of them had actually met, and he got a postcard back from Morrissey that just said "PERFECT!" (you know, like the song his band did), and how Nevin was disappointed by this, he was saying it just seemed so crass, and beneath what he expected of Morrissey - I think this is part of the way he was not cut out for anything except pop stardom, Morrissey is literally only capable of coming across well via pop record, any other format he's just insufferable, even in the context of giving interview which might be considered part of 'being a pop star'.

I think "not very bright" and "incurious" are two ways of saying the same thing -- he formed some opinions from what wits he had when he was young, they took him enough distance to attain a status he desired, and that was essentially the end of his development. this is reflected in his ceaseless flogging of the exact same themes his entire life, his returning & returning & returning to the same images & figures & icons in a way that, if he were an even marginally more curious writer, he'd at minimum conscript it into the overall effect (eg by drawing attention to how repetitive his themes are, self-reference being second nature to him as a writer, but every time he tells somebody he like Oscar Wilde he still seems to think he's about to blow a few minds with his daring discovery of this neglected obscure writer he likes).

as far as the racism, it was certainly always there, and plenty of people wanted to ignore it because of the great tenderness of which he was capable of expressing in his writing, and I'm hard pressed to name any figure whose failure to honor the spirit both present in his own work & valued by those who cherished that work is so severe. plenty of artists with shitty opinions, whatever, plenty of writers who said nice thing in their work but were themselves beastly people, but Morrissey's failure is total: his political beliefs are disconsonant with nearly all his best work, and consonant only with his worst.

there's a sort of mutual flattery between audience and artist, he was happy to be perceived to be the kind of artist who read Oscar Wilde and I was happy to be the kind of person who listened to someone who liked Oscar Wilde but not motivated to actually read Oscar Wilde myself

lol @ me reading picture of dorian grey and the stranger because of pop musicians

school: READ EXISTENTIAL + VICTORIAN LITERATURE
me: lol no

robert smith + morrissey: we say we read existential + victorian literature.
me: then i definitely do.

A curio is 'Interlude' with Siouxsie Sioux.

I have the idea that neither singer rated it or enjoyed it. But in theory it should still be of interest. And indeed it does stand out as an unusual song and sound for a hot (?) 45 in that era. The musical arrangement, I think, remains notable.

The trouble is that they don't even try to sing together - whether they were in the studio at different times or not. No harmony - which makes me think, has M ever done harmony, even with himself? Perhaps - and even the timing is consistently off. A missed opportunity.

I think Morrissey and Sioxusie both sang the whole song on their own and they edited the vocal takes together to make a duet. It's definitely strange to hear Morrissey singing a duet with anyone, but like you say it doesn't quite sound like a real duet, there's no sense of interaction between the two singers like you'd normally get with a duet - it's more like his over covers of songs originally recorded by female singers where you picture Morrissey alone in his bedroom singing along with the record, or imagining himself as the singer.

Even more than any lyrics he actually wrote himself, the lyrics to Interlude seem to set out this theme that runs through his work of refusing to grow up so you can stay in this adolescent dream state where your love object is both you and someone else, where you imagine yourself as the idol and as the idol's lover:

Let's hold fast to the dream
That tastes and sparkles like wine
Who knows if it's real
Or just something we're both dreaming of

Loving you I could not grow old
No, nobody knows when love will end
So till then, sweet friend
Time is like a dream
And now for a time you are mine

Good post there Soref.

It's pretty easily possible to construct a duet with two people recording at separate times (even with Nat King Cole after his death, etc etc!) - so I feel it's not really a technical matter but an aesthetic perversity, that their deliveries weren't better suited to interaction in the edit. I mean they could both have made an effort to sing in ways that would work for a duet, or M could have gone in and harmonised with S's pre-existing voice - but neither wanted to?

He does a few harmonies on Sandie Shaw's version of Jeanne, I think?

Yes, I quite like his BVs on that, the way that he shifts from lead (on original version) to backing singer (on hers).

I think I'd posit that Kirsty MacColl did the best harmonies on any Smiths or solo M record (1986, 1989).

Without wanting to be Capn Save-a-Mo, Lord Soto's recollection of the 1992 Details interview are slightly awry. The piece was actually by David Keeps and the exchange was as follows

Do you like jazz?
"It's boring. I like something spirited."
Something like gospel?
"'Oh Happy Day' sung by hundreds of people who are living in dire poverty in Birmingham, Alabama? No thank you."
Heavy metal?
"Even soft metal I find repulsive, because it completely bypasses the cranium for the loins. The loincloths. I don't like anything that insults the intelligence."
Have you ever been to a rave?
"Rave is the refuge of the mentally deficient. It's made by dull people for dull people."
Classical?
"I have a lot, but I don't understand a great deal of it. I don't understand the musical terms, but I'm learning. I think it's something I'll manage to perfect over the next thirty years. Right now I like Jaqueline Dupré - she's a cellist. But I like anything that's basically sad." (laughs) "I don't like marches."

Hardly an advertisement for any great curiosity, but I think his point was about the gulf between a gloriously hopeful gospel song and the lived reality of the people singing, rather than a dismissal of the people of Birmingham, AL

Thanks for the correction! I don't own a copy anymore.

The implication, though, is that the people are like the proles, singing in their misery; and it's not like they're all poor.

Thanks for post the whole series of quotes, it makes him seem like even more of a prick than he already did.

has he perfected his understanding of classical music?

xps to Alfred yeah I don’t think you’re wrong to find racial undertones in that bit!

lol "They should be singing Morrissey songs" is the best gloss I can give his remarks.

that's an amazing sequence of quote, dismissing these genres as being for dummies, then when he gets to the one he deems worthy of my serious consideration he admits he doesn't know shit.

Classical music there, Steve
The Trial of Joan of Arc
All you acoustic guitar-having protest kids!
And you can hear Moz say

Heavy metal?
"Even soft metal I find repulsive, because it completely bypasses the cranium for the loins. The loincloths. I don't like anything that insults the intelligence."

I'm not even a Metal guy but God this is abysmal chat.

I barfed into my loincloth.

You could liken Morrissey's to large language models like GPT: an impressive parlour trick but there's no real evidence of intelligence.

My experience as a Smiths fan was learning to deeply despise Morrissey the more I learned about him until by 1994 I was 100% done and you couldn’t pay me enough to listen to any of his new material (which also, to be frank, sucked)

They’re definitely overlapping and singing together at times throughout the song. I loved it at the time – the song was as chilling as the winter I heard it first – but now the best thing I can say about it is that it got me to track down the Timi Yuro version, a desert island disc right there

probably no bands will ever mean as much to me as the smiths and the cure. really like moz solo up until quarry as well.

I can identify with that statement. I also like M solo up to 2004.

In the second half of M's solo career, the notion that recurs is self-sabotage. He has repeatedly made the worst possible decisions and taken the worst possible actions for the viability of his own career.

I haven't put it on in a while, but Suedehead: The Best of Morrissey was my go to disc for his solo work.

"Last of the Gang to Die" feels like the last big song, basically the last song that anyone would be bummed out if he didn't do it in a live set

It's a great song, and I sang it at a karaoke bar in 2006: that falsetto he uses in the last forty seconds is an envoi.

Even Morrissey admires Jackie du Pré.

^trying to figure out how to interpret this

He trashes just about everyone's music, but she was able to reach even him--he couldn't throw her under the bus.

birdistheword: yes, I was playing that CD over and over recently, and quite appreciating hearing the ones less familiar to me - 'my love life', 'interlude', 'pregnant for the last time' I suppose. It's another odd fact that in that 'BONA DRAG period' he focused so much on the single form.

FWIW the LP art is dire, and I still don't really know why 'suedehead' is called 'suedehead'.

also FWIW I don't really think 'first of the gang to die' is better than 'Irish blood, English heart' or 'I'm not sorry', but I realise that debating the fine points / pros and cons of particular Morrissey records is not a central pastime at this point.

What’s the diff between that Suedehead comp and Bona Drag, some later material?

Also, Wikipedia sez:

It has since been deleted from the EMI catalogue as of 14 December 2010 alongside Beethoven Was Deaf and World of Morrissey.

also FWIW I don't really think 'first of the gang to die' is better than 'Irish blood, English heart' or 'I'm not sorry', but I realise that debating the fine points / pros and cons of particular Morrissey records is not a central pastime at this point.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, March 28, 2023 1:03 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i think it's much more meaningful as a part of his catalog to his considered hispanic fanbase in america, seems like it was his acknowledgment of them. maybe the last semi cool thing he did.

They're quite different records. Though with overlap.

SUEDEHEAD is mostly a 45s collection covering up to 1995 ('Boxers').

BONA DRAG is a 45s as in A and B sides collection covering 1988-1990.

So the latter is full of curios like 'Lucky Lisp' and 'Such a little thing makes such a big difference', which would never be on a 'greatest hits' record. But then, M has released so many random compilations that he's a special case in this regard.

SUEDEHEAD also features a cover of 'that's entertainment', which may have been a B-side.

re 'Boxers' wiki:

>>> In his review for AllMusic, Ned Raggett found the song to be "a fine enough number, with a good overall performance and production to recommend it."

i always assumed suedehead the LP was named for this richard allen novel:

https://i.imgur.com/qj8utiL.png

i mean "novel" lol, it's trashy sex'n'violence fear-porn pulp exploitation tho a veritable proustian madeleine to ppl of a certain age (the skinhead books were a missing link between kitchen sink and glam, they were on sale at supermarket checkouts in the mid-70s, and morrissey is a year older than me)

time to write my memoir of those times: sinkhead

Lol

related to the subject of whether or not Morrissey is actually well read, is "your nephew is true, he still thinks the world of you" from Boxers a reference to J.R. Ackerley's novel 'We Think the World of You'? He might just have seen the film version

i mean he only needs to have read the book's spine tbh

xxxxpost though cynically which he deserves at this point, wrt to last of the gang, i guess you could say morrissey could be open hearted to a group of people only to the degree to which they worship at the altar of morrisey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suedehead_(subculture)

xpost pinefox: yep "that's entertainment" was the b-side of the og "sing your life." this comp is nearly a one-stop shop for moz singles if you're so inclined; word to the wise tho: it's missing the live at kroq version of "sing your life" which is right up there with "the loop" as some of his best material for me.

i have such a hard time with this, but i just can't not think of beethoven was deaf as anything other than completely fucking awesome. big sigh. i haven't listened to it in probably 5 years, minimum. maybe i should just not revisit and keep it in my memory as the last hurrah or whatever.

Morrissey– Journalists Who Lie

forgot about this turd, a sign of things to come

Love "Tomorrow," song and video. (Zero interest in the person.)

Never read a Richard Allen book or to be honest ever seen one in the wild. I’d imagine this is one of the times you can judge a book by the cover.

just listening again and realising how much I love 'seasick yet still docked' and 'i know it's gonna happen someday' back to back. the latter is in my top ten moz vocal performances, maybe top 5.

also peak smiths/moz solo is so funny as a lyricist yet so unfunny when interviewed even when he's trying to be. v strange.

i think it's much more meaningful as a part of his catalog to his considered hispanic fanbase in america, seems like it was his acknowledgment of them. maybe the last semi cool thing he did.

Love "First of the Gang to Die," alas, though not the studio version compared to this Letterman live version. And like Alfred did it at karaoke once when it was still appropriate to do so.

lol so i clicked on the suedehead (subculture) wikipedia entry that tom d. linked to (adding the missing bracket to do so) and read it -- it's not very long -- and then clicked on the footnote called "morrissey gets iut off his chest", in case it featured him explaining why he used this word as a title

it did not: instead it took me to some strange-looking possibly abandoned site which required some of sort "prove yr human" thing to go further, except i got no further and got bored instead and came back here again

only now my mac seems to be infected with a little (fake!) notification which pops up every few minutes to tell me i have viruses (i don't), to deploy mcafee against them (no) and that someone is right now downloading my files ("is it you?") (p sure they're not, tho the fake notification is v annoying)

anyway one more little thing to blame steven patrick for

Ugh

I’m so sorry

It's all my fault.

that's actually a pretty potent dis— "you're so phony the sources on your wikipedia are viruses."

Once a few decades ago I went to see a friend perform at an open mic in the Lower East Side and one of the other performers had this bit about “We are the virus!” which I am now hearing as a Morrissey album title.

Don’t believe I am familiar with Moz’s cover of “Back on the Chain Gang,” but it seems like something I might like.

His covers show good taste and are generally fair enough but I can't think of one that adds anything to the original, or (apart from Interlude) has introduced me to a song or artist I would otherwise been unfamiliar with.

I knew that the word 'suedehead' was from a book title, and / or from a subculture. I just don't know what it has to do with the song.

>>> Don’t believe I am familiar with Moz’s cover of “Back on the Chain Gang,” but it seems like something I might like.

In his review for AllMusic, Ned Raggett reported that the cover was 'most fine, well performed and sung all round'.

I think some of the covers have actually been rare highlights of the otherwise wretched recent years. I really loved the version of Jobriath's "Morning Starship" and also have a lot of time for this cover of an old Melanie song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMDD16-EkRY

I knew that the word 'suedehead' was from a book title, and / or from a subculture. I just don't know what it has to do with the song.

You just hear him talk and he seems like… a dunce.

Back in the day you'd get long lists of lines he'd borrowed from various sources. Wonder if he stopped doing that? It seems impossible that any of the mostly terrible lyrics he's produced in the last 20 years could have been taken from elsewhere. He sounds so thick in his songs now, for sure. It's tempting to imagine that much of what made him sound clever in the early songs were the words of other people. But to be fair, even if you supposed that ALL of the words were stolen (which no one has ever suggested), those lyrics would still be smart works of editing/collage. It's mystifying where that talent went. I agree with the comments above that outside of the songs there has always been something dull and shifty in the way he speaks about pretty much everything.

xp someone enterprising will have to read the book then! SPM possibly never cracked the spine of the acklerley but he absolutely definitely positively read suedehead (and all the rest)

meanwhile i have not rid my laptop of the non-virus virus he gave me >:(

“I did happen to read the book when it came out and I was quite interested in the whole Richard Allen cult... suedeheads and skinheads and smoothies were very much part of daily life. There was a tremendous air of intensity... something interesting grabbed me about the whole thing.” Morrissey

suedehead is about a skinhead who decides he wants to move up the social ladder, so he has slightly longer hair. then, as expected, he reverts to his old ways and the boots go in... hard (this is how richard allen likes to end a chapter whenever he can.)

How does he stack up against David Peace?

Sorry about Mark’s Morrissey virus protection problem.

Enjoying the threadmotif of the pinefox reacts to Ned reacting to Moz..

I am indeed all over AMG and thus Wikipedia with them earlier comments. Ah well, ya live and learn.

Anyway:

Love "Tomorrow," song and video.

Still amuses me greatly said video was one of the earlier things by Zac Snyder!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDdQcfz6pbo

https://www.morrissey-solo.com/threads/zack-snyders-recollection-of-making-tomorrow-promo-video.148161/

Because I would have loved to have been Morrissey's creative visualist. I remember I wrote a treatment for him for another song on that album. It was going to be all Giant. You know the movie Giant with James Dean? It was a take on it, and he was going to play the James Dean role.

Mm, of course.

holy shit!

Is there some kind of Wikipedia AMG connection I am unaware of?

Morrissey never sexier than in the "Tomorrow" video.

Morrissey never sexier than in the "Tomorrow" videoy

FTFY

Don’t think I ever noticed those somewhat notorious Mary Margaret O’Hara vocals on “November Spawned a Monster” until just now. I wonder what Ned had to say about them.

Interlude is a keeper.

The stories of Siouxsie and Morrissey arguing over the video are quite good.

“The original video idea,” Siouxsie said, “was to show Ruth Ellis being led to the gallows, which I loved, but which didn’t happen. Instead he wanted a bulldog, which I didn’t understand. Why a bulldog? So I questioned him about his pro-British thing and told him I couldn’t have that. I said, ‘pick another dog, like a chihuahua or something. A monkey, anything!’ . . . I don’t know why he wanted to stick to his guns so much. And no, we’ve not spoken since.”

https://thenervousbreakdown.com/tanderson/2011/02/rock-fight-siouxsie-morrissey-and-the-collaboration-that-time-forgot/

Is there some kind of Wikipedia AMG connection I am unaware of?

All dates back to the early days of both sites; AMG content was freely available and that made it a handy reference source for a lot of Wikipedia entries.

I like all of the music videos that Tim Broad directed for Morrissey (basically all of them up until Tomorrow, he also did the videos for Girlfriend in a Coma and Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before)

Oh, right, thanks, Ned. I kind of figured that, but then I started thinking that maybe these days AMG content, such as it is, might not be freely available anymore.

On the website Allmusic, Ned Raggett stated that Mary Margaret O'Hara's backing vocals were "fine and definitely adequately pleasing, adding up to an agreeable performance".

Hmm. Very amusing. But I see something different.

A curious note comes from the guest appearance of cult vocalist Mary Margaret O'Hara, who ends up only contributing a series of yelps and gurgles in the instrumental break mid-song.

I assume that these days Wikipedia can’t add AMG content quite so freely but AMG can’t claw it back either.

(james R&tB will be relieved to know i have solved my virus problem, which was i think only a rogue fake-mcafee notification problem lol)

(For I second I did a double-take and thought "rogue" was "Rourke")

(uh oh)

My friend just let me know they are seeing Morrissey @ the Hollywood Palladium tonight.

https://imgur.com/iqv4Fij.jpeg