modest mouse...

...is well represented in our archives as a quick glance at the "search" function will tell you.

though your far reaching conclusions are valued, of course.

I'm still looking for a left-handed Jaguar. That's right - OH MY GOD kind of impossible.

If I can't find one I'll probably go with a lefty strat. I found these sick pedals - http://www.zvex.com/effects.html . They're made by some dude who sticks all these crazy transistors into them from any old radio he can find.

How about you? Started playing lefty?

You know, people who pay attention to metrical structure. It's fine to pull a one-off for experiment's sake, but album after album? Please.

Aja, of all people. Of all the Nirvana fans in the world to speak such nonsense.....

Come on. There are songs that seem like there lyrics could be poetry but they sound much better with music. Some people try too hard to make a good poem and other just don't try at all.

You'll notice that, even if you never heard it, how you read a Nirvana song is generally in-line with how it is sung. That's talent. That's poetry. That's rhythm.

Read 99% of these shitty indie-bands of today, then listen to the song, and it's like 'what?'

Examine 'drain you' or 'heart-shaped box.' Read as monotone robotic as you can and I guarantee it will still sound similar in pitch and in rhythm to the song. Gorgeous.

'Film student?'

Yeah. I can't deal with them. You know, the types who say that requiem for a dream changed their life and that crispin glover is the coolest actor in hollywood.

I now play left handed. I got a left handed customized fender stratocaster! What joy.

And your right. If Kurt was a poet, we would still have those other bands, so I'm glad he got in to music too.

Sorry.

I'm just so excited about my new guitar. I already have one, but this one is better.

I'll tell you who likes Modest Mouse, almost unconditionally - indie rock girls. And their boyfriends, by proxy.

And then, some of us just dig 'em cuz they occasionally really, really rock. Though I'll admit, I didn't start appreciating them as much as I do until Wifey began playing A Lonesome, Crwoded West every single day, so I guess I fall into the above category after all (though Wifey is as far from an indie rock girl as it gets)

Film students that I knew, all of them being on heroin, were always into stuff like the Paris, Texas soundtrack and Stars of the Lid.

That's rigidity. That's lack of imagination.

Seriously, though, you can't really think that all rock musicians want to sound like Nirvana. Don't take this the wrong way, but why read ILM and post if you truly think that there is only one 'proper' sound and the rest of music is substandard? You must realize that there are many differing opinions here, and none are necessarily right or wrong.

Honestly, I think the only way to be as famous as Nirvana is to write something that people can relate to, that sounds good, is radio friendly, and will get rid of pop, hip hop and rap. That is what's going to get you that famous.

You-know-who to thread.

and yet I sense a certain dissatisfaction in the singer's voice.

-- Aja (AsiaKitty200...), February 15th, 2004.

Or just be a pop, hip hop or rap artist.

I secretly hope I'm the one to do so.

I'm now adding distortion with overdrive!

Oh, and to 'webcrack' - who said anything about the same structure? I'm talking about a structure, period. All good poetry follows a structure of sorts. When one negates a structure all together, one writes a song that 99% of the population could as well - like modest mouse. And no 'well how did they get to where they are then.' I'm speaking of their lyrical merits, or lack thereof. And ANY IDIOT could write a modest mouse song.

Lates.

Flanger and overdrive!

Flanger was used in Come as You are? It sounds like it.

Get a Zvex pedal Aja!!!! www.zvex.com

They are all hand painted and produce crazy tones.

You'd don't read ILE do you?

Mind if I 'borrow' your guitar?

-- JesusMaryChain (heyzeu...), February 15th, 2004.

What in God's name are you talking about? Have you read poetry? Do you think it should all be variations of "There once was a man from Nantucket"?

If you do that, I won't mind. I have an extra. But if you scratch the body, I will never talk to you again!

You could do whatever and get out here. I mean if you really wanted to play my wonderful guitar!

You mean people like Ian Curtis? 'Cause it leaves him in pretty good standing, actually.

That means no Dave Grohl. : (

I've already kind of messed up one of the signatures.

do you actually believe that?!??
if so, sorry, kid. there were a ton of bands that would've if they didn't. throwing undue adulation onto Nirvana doesn't help them at all. in fact, you start going in the face of yr own logic with statements like that.

"All good poetry follows a structure of sorts."

seriously, are you typing this from a highschool lit class??
what dost thou know of the mighty iambicpentameter?!

oh, and if any 'idiot' could write a MM tune, why haven't you? i mean to say, where is yr album at there, genius? right....i thought as much.

-i would like to say, i don't think MM are the be all end all, esp. in terms of lyrics, but, song wise, they've innovated more than Nirvana simply by remaining a band longer. go, seek 746-hero vs MM "whenever you see fit" and come back. just because something sells does not a greatness make. ya dig?

lemme guess, Ugly Cassanova was total shite, too?
heheee.
i think there's a Dave Mathew's thread around here you should find...

I know most people hate them on this board, but if anyone is interested, another tour has been announced and pre-sale begins today!

If they would have trimmed the fat off of their 90's output they would have been the best rock band of the 90s

i'm thinking this. i didn't hear the last one and was a little lukewarm on the one before that, but they've got a strong body of work.

what's that modest mouse song that is sort of like a singsong rap at the beginning - no instruments maybe

might mention lumberjacks or termites

it's called "open goal"

j/k

hi j0hn!

what's up Alfred!

I came as a rat?

the fruit that ate itself?

love the first 4 studio albums, plus the "building nothing..." comp.

well my description was pretty bad except the lumberjack part.
classy plastic lumber
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29NO5NAJ3_c

the reason I wanted to know was because I used the "buh duh buh buh buh
Bud duh buh buh buh buh buh buh buh" as part of an old answering machine message I had. good times

Why was this band so successful/popular? Of all bands with a similar background? What was the “secret sauce”?

Float On and teenage ennui

They don't sound like anyone else except Built to Spill

When their 1996 debut came out, I seriously thought it was the Built to Spill guy using a pseudonym...

People always say that but idk, MM always had a way different vibe to me

otm, never got the comparison apart from slinky guitars, but even those are v different slinks

(I was in college and kinda dumb)

otm, never got the comparison apart from slinky guitars, but even those are v different slinks

MM basically lifted that whammy bar pinch harmonic thing from BTS and made it one of their signature sounds

Not just that, they have very similar melodic tendencies. Especially the riffs

They really nailed a certain usonian otc and booze fueled nihilistic ennui that really makes sense if you’ve been to issaquah, and feels prophetic for all of America today

It’s just interesting to me that they hit it big and not, like, 764-Hero or whoever. There were so many bands in that scene.

(Many of whom put out good debut albums, but didn’t seem particularly destined for modern-rock stardom or playing “SNL” w/Sam Jayne on tambourine)

764-Hero had a few jams but never got close to Lonesome Crowded West calibre imo

i was gonna say. serviceable vs. superstar

Built to Spill could’ve if they had a Float On

Even though Keep It Like a Secret is an album of pop rock perfection...........

Prior to float on I saw mm at plaza of nations with flaming lips. They ripped it hard with doin the cockroach and lots of their material from lonesome and moon. This was grade 10, by the time I was graduating and working in music retail, float on was slowly popping up everywhere. At the record store I worked at even the car stereo salesman used it to sell equipment.

The next modest mouse show was at a much bigger venue and they were headlining. When float on came on a ton of tweens flooded the stage and the sitting room prestigious venue became a mosh pit. Luckily that record was very good but obviously it changed their game

So much for a break

It was worth it just to learn some slight of hand.

I’m full of useless or useful knowledge depending on the audience

unsure how to take morrisp's question - do you mean pre-"good news" success or after? cause after is basically that "float on" was an enormous one-off hit that massively expanded their audience, which most of their peer bands didn't have. before it's more like indie-rock success but it was still success - they built up enough cred with LCW and the various singles etc that by the time M&A dropped, critics were ready to anoint them an album-of-the-year-tier act, and meanwhile they were selling out theater-sized venues. the late 90s stuff is the period of their music that still sounds most focused and powerful to me, though I like a lot of stuff on M&A and the following couple of albums.

I think it's hard to match the quality of the first 4 albums for a pop/rock group.

They really sold it, and I was happy to buy.

Yeah, I guess it’s like asking why Talking Heads made it big, and not James Chance & the Contortions, or something... I just wouldn’t have predicted it in 1996!

some dude on grindr told me he was seeing them at red rocks a few weeks ago. i knew they had seen some popularity after 'float on' but didn't realize they were still such a draw. i hope ib and whoever is in the band now aren't miserable.

i have a good memory of seeing them in 2001 with the shins opening before they broke out.

apropos of nothing, the indie i was listening to around then that i enjoy or would probably enjoy now: a few modest mouse tracks, elliott smith. uh that might be it. flaming lips are ruined forever for me. that's probably the most 'can't live without' band of me 15 years ago that i have no desire to listen to now.

Did The Shins fit into yr early-2000s indie taste profile?

I wonder if they'd be making better records now if they'd never had a commercial breakthrough. We Were Dead... was mostly a drag and the last one bored me senseless.

Did The Shins fit into yr early-2000s indie taste profile?

― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Sunday, May 27, 2018 2:22 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

not so much on record but i really enjoyed them at that show

the venue was open-air and it was a gorgeous october evening and they sounded really fresh, uplifting and dreamy. pretty soon after that i was getting into heavier and more experimental music so i drifted away from 'changed my life' indie, lol.

i was rly crazy abt this band in late high school / early college. never put them on anymore but my old enthusiasm is not mysterious: american prole signifiers + comic pessimism + knotty guitars + the gimmick where all the album titles are ominous ringoisms.

best post-breakthru album is nobody's first and you're next. got a soft spot for we were dead (love "spitting venom") but yeah i don't remember a thing from the last one. i don't think they're beholden to something that's crippling them tho. suspect they may just have reaped everything they had to sow. at least i have.

back when i loved them i was once walking home on hawthorne, sad and broke and v cold, and when i looked thru a passing bar window there was IB drinking alone and scowling. rly cheered me up.

+1

great dlh post.

IB did write an insane number of great songs from 96-00 but Jeremiah Green doesn't get enough credit for helping to make those records what they are.

After Green leaves, the songs have less breathing room and Brock's lyrics and persona take over to a greater extent, which is fine for a bit but the approach is exhausted pretty quickly.

The only record he’s not on is Good News

I love We Were Dead, that came out about two years after I became obsessed with MM. I actually like it more than Good News, which has three beautiful songs (Ocean Breathes Salty, Float On, The World at Large), and lots of tuneless steampunk bullshit and bad b-side worthy ballads like Blame it on the Tetons and One Chance. The View is OK, Bukowski I used to love but now can’t stand, The Good Times Are Killing Me is good but doesn’t move me anymore.

We Were Dead just rocks. More hooks, faster, meaner. The last one was terrible but the title track - Strangers to Ourselves - is amazing imo.

I didn't clock that Green returned, but I stubbornly maintain that the songwriting mode had "switched over" irrevocably. Even the songs that stretch out a bit more tend do so in a more medley-ish fashion.

I really like that song “Satellite Skin.”

yeah flappy bird otm. there was definitely a shift in sound (a mix of increased polish from being commercially successful and on a major and the band doubling in size?) but We Were Dead is much more successful than Good News. it's a little bloated but has a lot of great songs - Dashboard, Missed the Boat, Parting of the Sensory, Spitting Venom, Little Motel

No One's First (which is mostly We Were Dead outtakes) is also pretty good, if you combined the best tracks from the two you'd have something up with their best

good news sounded a lot like brock was still getting the ugly casanova demons out of his system. for the better

agree on the first part

xp Florida is my favorite from We Were Dead. But with Spitting Venom, three great singles, and bracing pop indie rock, it feels more like a classic MM album than Good News even, which unlike every other one doesn't have a song over six minutes.

The UC record is more interesting than any of the major label MM albums tbh

i recall seeing them shortly after good news... leaked and a significant portion of the crowd were incredibly fractious, lots of yelling about how they'd sold out and stuff being thrown at the stage. i didn't really know what they were on about, album seemed fine to me, tho i guess the success of 'float on' proved em right

The crowd was full of future record execs – they knew a hit when they heard it!

I thought “Float On” was a good song that seemed like a natural outgrowth of the band’s aesthetic (not like they changed up their style for a hit). Obviously, it also sounded great on the radio; and the lyrics had a nice “message,” to boot.

felt the proverbial chills behind the neck when I heard "Float On" in late spring '04 -- knew it was going to be huge.

like "hakuna matata" but barked by an animal

I agree with Simon. I would take sharpen your teeth over any mm these days

"Float On" kinda equates to Jimmy Eat World's "The Middle". Catchy upbeat tune that in not anamolous in the band's catalog but also not really.. representative

Or like “Losing My Religion”

I buy both of those comparisons!

Lol I remember seeing them post-Moon and Antarctica and a drink dude kept yelling “PLAY THE NISSAN SONG!”

drunk obv

enh beyond a couple of songs that came later, I think "Float On" is pretty anomalous - not just the big broad hooks but the upbeat sentiment

Float on always sounded like talking heads to me but I would say you can draw a comparison from float on to sia you e changed or even the last paramore in terms of guitar

You’ve changed.

“PLAY THE NISSAN SONG!” is an awesome drunk-guy concert shout

eh "Losing My Religion" and "Float On" are representative.

when I think about key earlier MM songs ("Cowboy Dan," "Doing the Cockroach," "Lives," "Talking Shit...", "3rd Planet") they don't share much DNA w/ "Float On" beyond Brock's howl

“LMR” is an authentically R.E.M.-y song, but they didn’t really have any other songs in their catalog that sounded like it at the time

"You Are the Everything."

I guess... it’s not a big, hooky pop song.

There's nothing pre-"Float On" I can imagine even playing on rock radio, let along being a hit.

I took the original point to meant that these accessible songs still sound recognizably like those bands, and of course they do

Like Cloudland-era Ubu.

Yeah I think we’re kind of saying the same thing... these “breakthrough” songs reflected the essence of the band, but were also a new kind of song for them (which is how they had a hit “on their own terms”).

classic brent d review of moon + antarctica was, i think, my first encounter with pitchfork (and also the backlash to pitchfork)

https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5358-the-moon-antarctica/

Lonesome crowded west still all time.

Jeff otm

There are so many upbeat MM songs pre-Good News: Gravity Rides Everything, Paper Thin Walls, You're the Good Things, Here it Comes, Heart Cooks Brain, Neverending Math Equation, Summer, Talking Shit About a Pretty Sunset... Float On isn't anomalous at all, a natural growth & not at all unpredictable.

flappy bird's got a good point

at least a couple of those I wouldn't classify as "upbeat" at all but mileages vary I guess

agree

and if you're driving a Japanese car

upbeat for them for sure, but yeah, other than Gravity Rides Everything and Paper Thin Walls, it's hard to see any of those being hits (tho Summer is sort of the perfect college radio hit). But they are optimistic and generally uptempo - considering those songs, Float On doesn't seem so strange or out of place.

surprised anyone would think Float On representative of mm, very much an outlier imo, good song obv

gravity rides everything is not upbeat and its optimism consists of being thankful for decay because it's preferable to oblivion-- but then float on's optimism consists of just listing disasters and shrugging, so flappy otm it is plenty in character. after all that "dashboard" felt like thematic self-parody yet i think it is actually my favorite along this line.

paper thin walls tho is dystopian.

gravity is major key and they could jam out on it live if they so chose, but "upbeat" is prob not the word I would use. "hopeful," maybe?

paper thin walls is upbeat-sounding for the most part but then there's that quarter-time bridge/chorus which would scare radio away

i'm certainly in the camp that "Float On" sounded like a natural outgrowth for the band. you can draw a straight line from Trailer Trash to Float On.

it's certainly possible to imagine a rougher sounding Float On showing up on The Lonesome Crowded West yeah

It would have more palm muting and a middle sixteen about seeing the face of God and it was himself cackling in Spanish, or something.

Speaking of which, I revisited “Float On” today, and the bridge is weak – the song just kind of drops out for a few bars.

Bridges are a big deal for me; and a good song with a weak/obligatory-sounding bridge is a bummer!

i'm certainly in the camp that "Float On" sounded like a natural outgrowth for the band. you can draw a straight line from Trailer Trash to Float On.

― 808s & Deep States (voodoo chili), Monday, 28 May 2018 02:53 (two hours ago) Permalink

yeah, "trailer trash" and "talking shit" are the precursors to "float on" imo

lmao Simon otm

Just pulled up YouTube to revisit “...Pretty Sunset” (I remember it from the album, but haven’t heard it in ages). Pretty intense comments!!

I didn’t realize how meaningful MM’s songs are to ppl. (Of course these are also YouTube comments, which tend towards maximum emo, regardless of the artist.)

they're a rite of passage band just like Nirvana or Radiohead (on a smaller scale obv). Even though they're from the PNW I maintain that they are the Beatles of the Midwest. Brock's lyrics, especially the pop existentialism, mean a lot to teenagers.

The Moon & Antarctica was a crucial record for me, my gateway into indie rock and down the rabbit into literally everything else. Nirvana, Green Day, Radiohead, and the Beatles were the only bands I really loved before I heard Modest Mouse. discovering them was the beginning of my obsession with music.

this is circa late 2004, early 2005, a bit less than a year after Float On came out, which I liked but I thought they were a gimmick band/one hit wonder based on the music video and the mustache. I thought IB really had that goofy ass mustache. then I saw the video for Ocean Breathes Salty before school one day and was COMPLETELY blown away: first of all, beautiful & bracing song, video is great, and it clicked for me that oh, this is actually a real band.

MM were probably the last band that I had that kind of religious fervor for that is the purview of young people only

(But that phase passed by '04ish for me)

"talking shit" hit me pretty hard in the high school days, esp that instrumental coda. just replaying in my head, man, i don't even think of them as a favorite band but they really got to something.

Custom Concern was my overeducated underemployed anthem age 22

https://uproxx.com/indie/isaac-brock-interview-modest-mouse-reviews-every-album-the-golden-casket/

damn he does not sound well here, sounds paranoid as hell & admits that substance abuse is why their previous album had such a long gestation

This was upsetting to read. One of the best lyricists in recent decades.

I remember my buddies being huge into Mouse boots b/c Brock would go on some really bizarre rants and often got so drunk they'd have to pause several times. personally I thought they sucked live, though I saw them once with Marr and they were pretty decent. kinda assumed this guy was sober by now b/c you can't really live ~that~ kind of life for more than like, 6-7 years. at 20 those kind of guys seem really cool but now I just think the dude needs help

this isn't the least bit surprising

Kinda sobering to read that whole thing and then learn at the end he has a kid. (Also, not so cool of Uproxx to link the Amazon page for the weird conspiracy book he mentions, as if they’re promoting it.)

grim stuff but yeah, not really a surprise unfortunately. hope he gets some help.

silent weapons for quiet wars hell yeah, indie rock needs that william cooper shit

Yeah it doesn't get depressing until he starts talking about Strangers to Ourselves. Before he even said it I thought he had Adderall psychosis.

(Also, not so cool of Uproxx to link the Amazon page for the weird conspiracy book he mentions, as if they’re promoting it.)

― search term: buttrock (morrisp), Thursday, June 17, 2021 12:41 AM (thirteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Jesus christ. Seriously? Are we all babies now?
https://www.amazon.com/Silent-Weapons-Quiet-Wars-Introductory/dp/1585093807

I'm not triggered by it, dude - I just don't think it should be linked out in the article for ease of purchase by fans whose curiosity may be piqued by the mention.

And yes, we are mostly babies now. That thing where we lock the cabinet so baby doesn't drink the Drain-O? We sadly probably need to do more of that sort of preventative shit in this, our brave new world.

not defending Isaac Brock in the slightest but am i missing something in that interview that makes it so depressing apart from the conspiracy shit? it is because he doesn’t break shit down Tape-op style?

oh ok umI had stopped reading after good news caus I don’t know those albums. Got it.

Touring seems just too much of a strain.

It's not touring, these guys aren't exactly road dogs. Also, plenty of touring lifers manage to do it just fine without turning into unhinged lunatics. Don't blame it on that.

the new album is strange, they've made a late 90s 'alt-rock band goes electronica' album

it's not terrible but not really that good either

I've listened to a few tracks, don't really know what to make of it yet. can't say if it's better or worse than their last one because I don't remember a damn thing about it. I do get a "we made this shitty on purpose" vibe from it - it's produced in such an ugly way, the drums and vocals are too loud and there are a dozen things going on at once. probably worth a full listen but it's not good when your first thought is empathy for the people you were friends with who were very vocal about their dislike of Modest Mouse

I just finished a first spin, I kinda don't hate it? It's definitely better than the last one, but it's got a lot of peaks and valleys.

this has got to be the band with the biggest swing between how much i loved them and how much i now wish they would just stop.

You should try loving Morrissey's Viva Hate.

never got into him or his old band

I’m a diehard MM fan who could never get into that last album in particular but this feels much more close to Good News, which I enjoy. Not them at their best but a decent return to their second best. Didn’t click for me til I was stoned and in headphones though..

xpost - at one time the soft bulletin was one of my fav albums and now anytime I hear Wayne Coyne sing I want to scream "shut the fuck up!!"

but yeah Lonesome Crowded/Moon period meant a lot to me and I can't really stand MM anymore (though I still like those albums)

its not really their fault, for me MM is the band I grew up with, I remember when my first friends got their drivers licenses and we'd cruise around listening to Moon & Antartica & the Night on the Sun EP on repeat. later we all got a place together and Mouse was on all the time. I got kind of sick of it tbh but it was damn good music. Listening to it now just bums me out b/c we've all gone our separate ways.

Didn’t click for me til I was stoned and in headphones though..

perhaps I'll have to try this, I suppose it's interesting enough that I should come at it with an open mind and not "here we go again"

https://www.nme.com/news/music/modest-mouses-jeremiah-green-diagnosed-with-stage-four-cancer-3371703

Damn, I hope the good prognosis will come true.

same here. not to get all cornball about them but this band was really important to me in my adolescence and even if I don't really listen to them anymore they still feel like old friends

I know what you mean. I haven't listened to any of their music for a while, at least for a few years, but they were on rotation all the time for a pretty good stretch - We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank alone was the one I played more than anything else in 2007, and that's saying a lot given the ridiculous amount of great music that came out that year. (There was rarely a time I didn't have my iPod turned off.)

Green has passed away. Very sad news

ugh that’s terrible. he was great

really sad. super young. don't know anything about him as a person but his loved ones must be devastated, especially since it seems like this all happened pretty quickly.

amazing drummer, obviously. he plays on pretty much every classic MM song, and in every case the songs are impossible for me to imagine without his playing on them.

The great Jeremiah Green. My friend, bandmate, and the most creative musician I ever met. pic.twitter.com/38u5Aq0wGB

— Johnny Marr (@Johnny_Marr) January 1, 2023

Huge RIP. His playing on "Truckers Atlas" alone made him a legend

not a drummer but ^^^ is absolutely the first thing i think of

100%. my favorite drum riff ever.

god, that's devastating. we just found out about this a week ago! he was indeed the thing that made some of those records - especially LCW - so weirdly groovy and special.

That escalated fast, RIP

Wearing my modest mouse hoodie when I found out 💔

saw them last night and they somewhat surprisingly still had it despite green's death, how erratic brock has seemed in interviews, and significant turnover in the lineup. "teeth like god's shoeshine" blew me away and they mostly stuck to their best material. the newer songs were mediocre to terrible but they only played a few thankfully.

i think they hit curfew though because they baffling closed with "heart cooks brain" which was completely anti-climactic