P&J&...Latin Music???

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I've followed with some interest the post-poll hand-wringing over the musical/gender/racial/etc.-politics of P&J. I'd like to thicken the plot with this question: what about Latin music? We're at the dawn of what may well be America's Latino century; Latin music is, increasingly, a powerhouse presence in the radio and retail marketplace; even the Grammys have gotten hip. But where are the records by Latin artists in the P&J poll? And where are the Latino/Latina critics? It's not like this is some peripheral, "world music" genre we're talking about here; this isn't Greek rembetika or something. This is mainstream pop music -- and what's more, it's largely homegrown. As rock-centric as P&J voters have traditionally been, it can't be said that they missed the boat on hip-hop; as early as 1980, rap was topping the singles poll ("The Breaks"). By contrast, P&J completely ignored another New York City-bred musical revolution: salsa. In the 1970s, the world's toughest, funkiest dance music was being made just a few miles north -- an express train ride away -- from the Voice's headquarters, but you won't find any Fania titles on the P&J albums list, up there with Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell. 30 (or 31) Pazz & Jop polls later, same old story. Thoughts?

Jody Rosen, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Jody Rosen vs. Jody Beth Rosen FITE

Broheems (diamond), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:20 (twenty-two years ago)

(I'm sorry. I'm a bad person. I was just dying to post that though).

Um, Rockist Scientist to thread...

Broheems (diamond), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Xpost:

First off -- the other Jody Rosen is here! Matter and antimatter will collapse!

Secondly, my sense of Latin music in the very broad sense is how the last decades have seen borders shift and collapse as much as certain styles have developed. Rockist Scientist here will have much to say about salsa, Matt C/Begs2Differ and Chuck plenty about roc en español and so forth on these boards. But a band like Mars Volta ended up on the poll, their two chief members at least are Latino, they have a strong love of salsa rhythms. In LA I'm willing to bet you're going to see a slew of Chicano bands starting to emerge with obsessive loves of Morrissey, the Cure and the like; there's already enough punk and hardcore bands from over the many moons. But observations like mine are skimming surfaces others could say more about.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Quick shout to the other Jody Rosen: I come in peace.

Love, Jody Rosen

Jody Rosen, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned if you think anyone who voted for Mars Volta did so because they love salsa rhythms you're higher than the ghost of Bob Marley smoking a tree made of pure uranium-laced crystal Pepsi.

Scott Seward and I both voted for El Gran Silencio, as did a few other critics. We managed to get it all the way up to #164. I voted for two Spanish-language singles that no one else voted for AT ALL, and one English-language single by a Mexican-American singer that no one else voted for AT ALL. So I did my part, but maybe I was just wrong. Maybe that stuff just sucked, and I should have been spending my time on alt.country.laptop.pop.

Besides Cafe Tacuba, no one KNEW or, really, CARED what went on in Mexican/C.American/S.American music this year. This is pretty much a true statement I think. They're the Mexican band to namedrop if you have to pick one. Most people didn't feel the need to go even that far, and if they went that far they didn't go any farther. Great records were released this year by Natalia Lafourcade, Control Machete, Molotov, Plastilina Mosh, and Los Tucanes de Tijuana, among other bands just from Mexico. (Argentina was quiet this year.)

Yeah, Rockist Scientist to thread, I'd like to hear his take on what he would have liked to see up there.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned if you think anyone who voted for Mars Volta did so because they love salsa rhythms you're higher than the ghost of Bob Marley smoking a tree made of pure uranium-laced crystal Pepsi.

Yay high!

My argument was less that (in fact, not that at all, just poorly phrased on my end) than it was noting that a band that speaks of an open love of same did end up on the poll, an admittedly singular example from the looks of it, and that J. Rosen's original question asking 'what about Latin music' is already mutating into a larger one -- what is Latin music?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:40 (twenty-two years ago)

more like: what ARE Latin MUSICS? Not even Latinos can decide (once again, check Gustavo Arellano's blog to see how much shit he has to go through just for daring to write about Latino issues)! see the epic battles between me and RS on this board about continental music vs. island music, and which one has more of a right to an inferiority complex.

I actually think the whole issue has a whole fucklot to do with Latin music not getting played on mainstream pop radio, even in NYC and LA.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 06:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Mm, it's all ghettoized into speciality channels -- and Gustavo's had some things to say about those, lemme tell ya.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 07:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I loved the LA Mex stations when I was out visiting, but they were pretty much playing all norteno/narcotraficos and cumbias; no rock en espanol AT ALL, no Cuban or P.R. dance music AT ALL.

I got an email from Jose Marquez of the great electro/tweepop duo Pepito the other day; he thought it would be funny to book some of SF's best-known Latin danceclubs to promote their new record Everything Changes. "Hey, I thought there was going to be a 16-person orquestra here! Who is this couple with shitloads of synths singing about dodgeball and politics? THAT'S NOT LATIN MUSIC!"

By the way, Everything Changes is my #1 for 2004 so far, but the new Allison Moorer is right up there, as is Joyce's record Just a Little Bit Crazy. God bless Brazil for that last one.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 07:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I just got a bunch of brazilian music in the mail does that count.

Chris V (Chris V), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 12:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Speaking as a total outsider - is Latin music perceived by crits who don't know it (like me) as functional and frothy party music? Which is what I think of when I hear the word 'salsa'. Now it seems to me that functional/frothy party music IN GENERAL doesn't do *that* well on the P'n'J poll* - hip-hop yeah but it's written about in terms of its lyrical/cultural meaning rather than how much it bumps; dancehall does OK but soca doesn't even show; teenpop gets a look-in but not much more; the occasional hyped house music album but none of the singles, etc. etc.

*and it doesn't matter whether or not Latin music falls under that banner - in fact I'm sure much of it doesn't - if it's perceived as that. But that 'if' is the question I'm asking really.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 12:52 (twenty-two years ago)

It's because it's politically correct to be hip hop o centric....don't worry, Latin music will get there too in about ten years.

naysayer, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 12:54 (twenty-two years ago)

On another link I urged Chuck Eddy to add some of the Beat magazine's poll participants(they cover African, Carribbean, South and Central American and more) as well as contributors from the the 2 rock en espanol but in English magazines I've seen in Tower records. Chuck I believe is going to send his intern out to get such zines and will hopefully add their members to next year's poll.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 14:37 (twenty-two years ago)

By contrast, P&J completely ignored another New York City-bred musical revolution: salsa. In the 1970s, the world's toughest, funkiest dance music was being made just a few miles north -- an express train ride away -- from the Voice's headquarters, but you won't find any Fania titles on the P&J albums list, up there with Stevie Wonder and Joni Mitchell.

A-fucking-men! Woke up in time to put Buscando America (sp?) on P&J. A little late.

Of course now, as haikunym or whatever his new name is, would point out, it's going to be Mexicans who are demographically dominant (in the U.S.) for some time to come.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I voted for the Gaby Kerpal album as well as El Gran Silencio in the pazz and jop poll, but i certainly wouldn't call myself a devotee of latin music. i happened to hear those records and i happened to love them. and how did i happen to hear them? hmmm, well, my eddytor might have had something to do with that. and i confess that i am more excited by the exciting hybrids of rap/rock/trad latin than i am by say, straight up salsa and the like. and the Gaby Kerpal album is an excellent example of an alt-latin record. i seriously miss one thing about not having cable anymore and that is not being able to see MTV Spanish which i loved with all my heart. there is so much amazing music coming from south america and mexico and it definitely needs more attention beyond Cafe Tacuba, etc.(although the cafe tacuba stuff i've heard is great too and i'm all for them getting hyped.)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

MTV Espanol and other cable stations (if you can afford em) do show a whole bunch of stuff that never gets highlighted in the Enfglish language print media. As for salsa, Salsa like soca is dismissed by many as just mere never-changing party music. When some performers like Eddie Palmieri add jazz to their sound and move away from making dance music, however they get props from the jazz world. In the Beat poll it seems like a few retro salsa efforts got props. Interestingly, some Latin-jazz performers themselves snear at salsa. Although usually they are irritated by salsa romantica which is much sappier than class '70s era Fania records salsa. I've read discussions this past year where salsa proponents are bemoaning the fact that more young Spanish speakers are becoming reggaeton rappers than singing salseros. But there is very little coverage of much of any of this in the musical or mainstream press. My token entries in W. DC publications are some of the only coverage around here. Despite all of the talk about multiculturalism and political correctness no one else is seemingly interested. It's also a catch 22--those who do know such musics don't think the area English-language media are interested so they never pitch any stories.

Soca and Calypso singer David Rudder is often very political so based upon his lyrics he sometimes gets crossover attention, but now that's he's on a small label he rarely gets attention no matter the subject matter of his lyrics.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 15:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Not enough time right at the moment to get into this in as much detail as I would like.

Tico, not sure how Latin music is perceived. I guess a lot of salsa (to speak about a particular genre) is "functional and frothy party music." It's dance music (obviously). In the 70's, a lot more salsa had lyrics which dealt with larger social issues than the lyrics typically do now.

Coming to salsa now is a little like coming to rock music now: it's an old genre and most people would probably agree that this isn't it's most vital era. That doesn't mean I don't find plenty of salsa from the 90's on that I like.

But honestly, I haven't heard one salsa album from the past year that I think should have been on a list like P&J. Of course, I'm not a critic so I don't get review copies; I haven't been using any P2P sources (though that has just recently changed); and I can only afford to buy so much music. Actually, the most impressive salsa album from 2003 was a compilation of rare material from the 70's: Lost Classics of Salsa, Vol. 1. Other salsa fans I know (mostly virtually) seems to think the last two or three years have been pretty dry.

I've read that a lot of Colombians from the predominantly black Pacific coast area (which has its own distinctive styles, sometimes borrowing from current African pop) are moving into Cali, Colombia, which is a world center of salsa. I'm hoping that this will either breathe more life into salsa (and Cali has already been a source for some of the best salsa over the past decade or so), or possibly lead to a new genre. (For that matter, I haven't even heard this coastal Afro-Colombian music, and I'm curious about that as well.)

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:05 (twenty-two years ago)

hey Chris V what Brazilian music did you get in the mail?

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:09 (twenty-two years ago)

and hey Rockist Scientist, I'm the poster formerly known as Haikunym, I'm trying to understand salsa and merengue, let's not beef anymore, okay?

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

My sister in laws bf is brazilian and he sent me a mix of his favorite brazilian artists. If i had the cd cover i could tell you, i'll post when i get home. But the one that stands out on it for me is Marisa Monte - Segue O Seco, fuckin sexy.

Chris V (Chris V), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course some salsa purists put down merengue! Music snobbery/rockism can cross into many genres...

I'm going to see Peru Negro tonight. They're a traditional Afro-Peruvian ensemble who were melding folky strumming and African-rooted percussion long before David Byrne started putting out Susanna Baca cds and getting her to tour the US. Eva Allyon who is also part of this gnere helped produced the Peru Negro cd(which is being marketed in the US by the rock,paper,scissors pr firm). They're funky enough for me, but maybe not for some who like more rockin' less NPR/National Geographic sounds...

Rockist, I'm curious about the Afro-Columbian music also. I can't find that Afro-Criollo cd on Palenque that got some world music press ink about a year ago.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:31 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, Marisa Monte...mmm... That Tribalistas disc with her and Arnaldo Antunes and Carlinhos Brown was top 20 for me, but not quite top 10. I actually find Monte a little too tasteful musically for me, too much George Harrison, but she's a great songwriter and singer.

Interesting that one of the biggest Spanish-language pop heartthrobs these days is Alexandre Pires, a Brazilian dude who sings in Spanish sometimes to make lots of money in the S.Am. market.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Latin CDs from 2003 that I heard:

Eddie Palmieri: Ritmo Caliente
Los Soneros del Barrio: Siguiendo La Tradicion
Yerba Buena: President Alien
Ry Cooder & Manuel Galban: Mambo Sinuendo [if that counts]
Various: Salsa Dura de Cali [which compiles old stuff anyway]
Elio Villafranca: Incantations/Encantaciones [I'm not big on Latin jazz though]

A few critical favorites (more or less in the genres that interest me) I missed:

Truko & Zaperoko: Musica Universal
Cesar Pedroso: Que Cosas Tiene La Vida
Ricardo Lemvo & Makina Loca: Ay Valeria!
Ivan Cáceres Y Su Bongolandia: Roots of Acid Salsa
Celia Cruz: [whatever the posthumous release was]

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Begs2Differ, yeah, fine. We need a united front. I don't think the Latin music you prefer is bad, I'm just not into it (most of it--I probably would like some).

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve, descarga.com has that Afro-Colombian anthology plus a new one.

rs, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:57 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, tell me about the Yerba Buena, RS and/or anyone else who heard it. I was worried that it'd be too fusion-y and watered down, but I've heard such great things about it that I'm curious.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 16:59 (twenty-two years ago)

It's fusiony but I wouldn't call it watered down, if that makes sense. I haven't listened to it for a while, so I will have to give it a spin again before saying anything detailed. I just didn't like it that much. The rap is kind of forgetable after a few listens. (I know I have already said I don't like rap, but even so, I think this is kind of mediocre rapping.) I like the Cuban woman doing background vocals, but she's definitely in the background. For what it's worth, a Latina that I got to listen to "My Guajira" (or whatever the first track is called) complained about the male chorus having a Spanish accent during the English lyrics. She complained that it sounded unprofessional. That didn't bother me, although there is something about the chorus I don't like, so maybe it is related in some way.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 17 February 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

So I made the right call NOT buying it! Go me, go me....

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 17 February 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't catch it often, but I really enjoy watching MTV Espanol when I'm at my friend's place or it's offered as a preview channel on my cable. Can anyone recommend a good compilation of rock en espanol?

Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Tico, can you say more about what you mean by "frothy"? I'm a little baffled by that word.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

here's the best rock en espanol comp i know of:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDSUB040402041439151503&sql=Aie7zefuk8gf2

I was listening to the stuff a lot more in the mid '90s (one year I think Caifanes, Fobia, Maldita Vecindad, and Santa Sabina all made my top ten -- I may have also voted for Lisa M and Xuxa that year; maybe also Cafe Tacuba's debut album, which by the way is the least boring thing they ever did; I forget!; I also voted for Selena and Chico Science album somewhere around then, R.I.P.), but I haven't been really excited about the stuff for years. This year I voted for a Molotov single in tenth place, but that's it. Anyway, I don't have time to go much into this here right now -- I still hear Latin records I like, and even write about them(Jenni Rivera's album last year was really good!), but the stuff hardly strikes me as the center of the universe, like it did between 1982 and 1985 or so. Los Fabulosos Cadillacs's "El Matador" was one of the greatest singles of the '90s, but they peaked years ago. Aterciopalados were best on their first two, and punkiest, albums. Caifanes were great for three albums, when they were a quintet; their fourth was bland, and Jaguares are worse. Anyway, I'm leaving tons of stuff out. If I have time sometime, maybe I'll go into more detail...

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

(I meant between 1992 and 1995, oops. And forgive my other typos, as usual, too.)

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

they peaked years ago

LFC haven't had a new album out in a while, and their last one was very pop/jazz-inflected, but Fabulosos Calavera from 1997 is one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. It's got death-metal slammed right up against blues walks, ska and punk, experimental in a really fun way. It post-dates "El Matador," which is, as Chuck says, one of the greatest singles of all time.

Again, I have to vote for Argentina as the country we up here know the least about musically. Bersuit Vergabarat's albums Libertinaje and Hijos del Culo are unfuckwithable in terms of weird songwriting and bizarre musical mashups; their singer may be an asshole, but he's an asshole in the cause of good. Plus the band is tighter than Boca Juniors' defense.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Begs2Differ, I don't think you should trust my judgment though (re: Yerba Buena), since our tastes are too different. You might like this CD more than I do. It's closer to rock en espanol than a lot of what I listen to. There's at least one cumbia track (which was kind of nice rhythmically, but I remember not liking the total package).

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(Man, I can hardly find any salsa on slsk. I want to play "Dare You!" but I can't find any of the songs I was going to suggest.)

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

don't bother, RS; I'd be willing to hear stuff, but I don't do slsk. I don't really download anything. this puts me at a DISTINCT disadvantage, as you might imagine.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck: I noticed that you mentioned Natalia Lafourcade's excellent record in a post in the Feminist-Call-To-Arms/P&J string. She just missed making my P&J list. I expect we'll be hearing more good things from her. Meanwhile...has anyone heard the new Kinky record? Any good?

As for Yerba Buena...I saw them open for Cafe Tacuba at Prospect Park last summer. They were a blast; a real tight party band, but a bit too slick for my taste. (Cafe Tacuba, incidentally, was spectacular.) Anyway, I have the YB album and have been meaning to revisit it.

Jody Rosen, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

I only just dwnldd slsk and I am still deciding how I am going to use it.

Incidentally, there was and possibly still is a free Yerba Buena mp3 on amazon.com, if you download anything at all.

x-post, I missed seeing Yerba Buena live this summer because I wasn't feeling well the night they played nearby.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Kinky is overrated, but that's only in relative terms to El Gran Silencio and Celso Pina and some of the more fascinating acts from Monterrey. In terms of overall musicianship and ideas, I'd put Kinky pretty high, I guess. Atlas is nowhere near the masterpiece that the review in the Voice claimed that it was. (I reviewed Lafourcade in the Voice, JR, and if I'd heard it just a few weeks before I did I'd-a put that in my top 10 too. I think.)

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:46 (twenty-two years ago)

oops, i forgot that along with gaby kerpal and el gran silencio i also voted for Opeth in the pazz and jop and half of their members are south american. they are a death metal band, but still...and it all makes sense somehow, cuz all those years i worked behind a counter selling beer in philadelphia were years listening to my mexican co-worker's tapes of trad folk and death metal!

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Nice Lafourcade review, Begs2Differ. I was down in Mexico last year and watched a lot of music TV (spent several days sick as a dog, writhing in hotel bed, like a good gringo); the "En el 2000" video was in HEAVY HEAVY rotation. Anyway, you said it in your review: Natalia is the eugenically-perfect post-modern international pop-sprite. Love her.

Jody Rosen, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

GOSH, I kinda like this new Jody Rosen. JBR is gonna have to stop with the smackdowns if she wants to win my affection back.

Long pause. Somewhere, a car crashes, and an elephant knits a splendid wool cap for her lover, so far away.

Okay, then, never mind. But still: next month: Super Riddim Internacional: Vol. 2!

Scott I must needs hear me some damn Opeth now. You bastard.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't mean to imply that JBR is an elephant. That was meant to be random Beckettian surrealism, and now I sound like an asshole.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 04:42 (twenty-two years ago)

"frothy" = light, 'fun', non-serious, perceived as disposable. I wanted an adjective that didn't sound derogatory b/c obviously those are things I value in music even though I understand that they are kind of illusory or would be seen as demeaning, obviously all music is serious on some level to a guy who's making a living off it.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 08:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I review three good recent Latin CDs here (incl. El Gran Silencio):

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0333/eddy.php

...and one more here:

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0346/eddy.php

I do also enjoy the albums Natalie Lafourcade, Kinky, and Yerba Buena put out lately, though none of them come close to blowing me away, especially the Yerba Buena (the rap parts of which are very NPR-hippie-vegetarian-style, but which has some good boogaloo parts to make up for it.) Also I like every Omar Sosa album I've heard (about five of them); Eugene Holley runs those down in this week's Voice...

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:20 (twenty-two years ago)

And yeah, the Gaby Kerpel is good, too. As is Opeth, whose beautiful goth-metal leanings really aren't all THAT far removed from what bands like Caifanes and La Castaneda and Heroes Del Silencio were doing in the Spanish-speaking world in the early '90s, so there you go...

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:23 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, i dig those omar sosa records. that's some cool shit.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:24 (twenty-two years ago)

(I think another big dark-metal/rock en espanol missing link, by the way, are Moonspell, from Portugal...maybe Lacuna Coil from Italy too, who knows?)

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:25 (twenty-two years ago)

my pazz and jop ballot was all over the map this year. south america, north america, japan, sweden, norway, australia. even one of my american choices sings in polish.

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:27 (twenty-two years ago)

that manta ray album was a fave of mine last year. viva espana!

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 16:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Thanks to Chuck and everyone else for the suggestions.

Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 17:23 (twenty-two years ago)

hey RS, what do you know about Bio Ritmo? my popmatters colleague B.Flaska claims the new one is the best salsa album she's heard in years....

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw them a few years back, in an odd venue for them (more of an indie rock kind of place). They wouldn't play a merengue when I requested one (so I could dance with one of my friends who doesn't dance salsa), and I thought, you know, my friends and I made up about 20-25% of the audience. They could have been more accomodating.

Otherwise, I thought they were okay. I wasn't blown away, but they were pretty good. I didn't really get the feeling that they were dancer-oriented enough though, not because they wouldn't play a merengue for me, but just because they seemed to occasionally switch up with the rhythm in a way that made dancing difficult.

They had someone playing a drum-kit. I don't remember whether they also had the usual percussion set up for salsa. An Ecuadoran friend commented that some of the singers in the chorus sang Spanish with an American accent, but she thought it was cute.

Also, I heard one of their CDs (their debut, I think) and it was just okay.

Sometimes I think I am a very difficult to please "critic."

(Why is the library suddenly swraming with very cute women? Maybe the Spring feel outside is just going to my head.)

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

swraming=swarming

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:55 (twenty-two years ago)

swraming sounded good to me

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Tego Calderon has a new CD, which got an interesting blurb at the www.descarga.com site. (Maybe if I understood Spanish I would be unable to enjoy reggaeton, but some of it sounds okay to me, and I don't know what's being said, even if FW makes a convincing case that there is a lot of negativity associated with it.) I haven't bought any reggaeton yet, but might try this Calderon CD.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:35 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Maybe if I understood Spanish I would be unable to enjoy reggaeton, but some of it sounds okay to me, and I don't know what's being said<

Me either, which is all the more reason to love the reggaeton version of "Get Low" by Lil Jon and the East Side Boyz! (Which is called the "merengue version" on the record but Carol Cooper whose #1 album of the year was the Tego Calderon one sez it's actually reggaeton.)

chuck, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:41 (twenty-two years ago)

It sounded like merengue to me (though given its relative newness maybe "reggaeton" is an even less clearly defined genre than "hiphop").

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to praise some of that NPR/traditional/nutricious stuff that makes Chuck cringe. I just saw Peru Negro last night at the Kennedy Center. They're a music and dance troupe who sometimes have as many as 30 people onstage. There were about 500 people there in attendance, including many families. Peru Negro had 5 percussionists, an acoustic guitarist, an electric guitarist, a female diva, a bassist and around 10 dancers(5 women and 5 men). The strumming may have been too flamenco-like nice for some of you but the great rhythmic bottom, African-style dancing(as provocative at times as hiphop videos), and the ocasional soaring female vocal tasted good enough for me. They were more than mere National Geographic exoticism. Imagine Susanna Baca or Eva Ayllon with a funkier band and dancers.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:11 (twenty-two years ago)

The cultural collision aspect of the show was real interesting. The dancers for certain numbers wore colonial style clothes while the music and vocals mixed European,African elements.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I want to praise some of that NPR/traditional/nutricious stuff that makes Chuck cringe.

Heh. I think my own problem with that is not itself but that people want to seem to stop there, with any culture.

"Hark! Yonder traditional music, so much more different from our own soulless Western crap!"

"Well yeah, it's great, but have you heard all the new pop singles on their char--"

"INFIDEL!"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, or "oh I love music from other places, it's so tribal and savage, I'm gonna drive my SUV to Starbuck's to buy a compilation of this music!"

wow I'm a radical hippie today

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

is that the luakabopification of america?

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

is that the luakabopification of america?

Aaragahagh. (I'm not a David Byrne fan...at all. That said, Luaka Bop does sometimes surprise me, thus A R Kane getting signed, however too little too late it was.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm not immune to the exotica factor. i like voodoo music and carnival drums and trad afrobeats.and martin denny. i like him too :)

scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:30 (twenty-two years ago)

I mainly liked the show because Peru Negro were funky not because they were exotic to me(99.9 % of the crowd was Peruvian--it wasn't weird to them). Isn't some of the appeal of Dizzee Rascal to Americans that his grime sounds different from what we're used to? I listen to rock en espanol also...At most of the international shows I go to I'm one of only a handful of English-speaking white boy Amurricans there. The stereotypical NPR Starbucks listener you're talking about isn't interest in much more than the Buena Vista Social Club.

Yea it's easy to cite and put down Starbucks Putumayo style collections and the people who buy them, but the hipsters at WFMU and Other Music and Aquarius these days are busy pushing those Balian and Java and Syrian collections put out by members of the psychedelic noise band the Sun City Girls on their Sublime Frequencies label. I guess they're somehow more sincere.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

No, just more cuddly. (This might be a lie.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve, you're right; I shouldn't have said that, because I didn't really mean it. There is no difference in sincerity between anyone's listening preferences, and you're right to call me on it. I was attempting to make light of it. Putumayo is probably actually doing a lot of good with their comps, and artist-focused comp albums like the Chico Cesar one. So yeah, go whatever brings people into the fold.

The problem is: what does yr suburban music person (who is, at least here in Madison, much more likely to get into int'l music than any of the more urban-head people) do once they hear something they like? The "world" sections in most places are straight-up ASS, and even our local indie stores do a piss-poor job of being up on new music coming from anywhere except Thrill Jockey and Sub Pop.

Actually, our Borders and Circuit city stores are the best places for new Latin music.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

If someone is really interested, they can generally find an online distributor.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Matt:

People of all different cultures seem to stop and declare certain music acceptable and some soulless crap. I've heard salsa fans put down merengue and reggaeton, Congolese rumba fans dismiss soukous...It seems like everybody has their dividing line.
It seems too easy to me to quickly do the reverse of those authenticity purists and say Spanish language rap-rock or electro-pop is automatically more important than traditional stuff because it's more modern or real or whatever. But you recognize that.
Rockism knows no borders I guess. Writers just have to try to cover all styles I guess and hope that record companies can get the stuff into stores.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Steve you're on the money. RS you're on the money too, I buy Brazilian and S.American CDs online, but that's gonna only work for some people, and for a while. if the records don't get in the stores, people are just gonna forget them...ah, forget it, I don't know what I'm talking about.

all I'm saying is, last year Thalia released two different records, each of which could have gotten as much press as [insert easy pop target here], but I didn't see really any reviews or discussion of either one of them. one of those records was in English, and had a pretty big video/radio hit. still: no blips on the radar. baby bash, a Latino rapper from Houston, has a top 10 hit; no blips on the radar. lumidee and her whole production crew are NYC latinos, Puerto Rican I think; no blips on the radar, other than "oh that song is awesome, she's a one hit wonder forget her".

so yeah, I think there's definitely a condescending attitude towards Latin pop and Latin dance music and Latin music of all kinds, and that it borders on xenophobia and/or racism. which pisses me off. why WEREN'T there more white people dancing to Peru Negro?

having said all that stuff, I'm gone for a couple of days. Keep it lively, solve all these conundrums, I'll check back to see the answers.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's Jeff Chang in all this? Isn't he the expert on who's racist and who isn't? Oh wait, this thread isn't about black people. My bad.

where's waldo, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

haha, I think!

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

People of all different cultures seem to stop and declare certain music acceptable and some soulless crap. I've heard salsa fans put down merengue and reggaeton, Congolese rumba fans dismiss soukous...It seems like everybody has their dividing line.
It seems too easy to me to quickly do the reverse of those authenticity purists and say Spanish language rap-rock or electro-pop is automatically more important than traditional stuff because it's more modern or real or whatever. . . . [edit] Writers just have to try to cover all styles I guess and hope that record companies can get the stuff into stores.

I don't see this as necessarily a bad thing, for some reason. People have strong feelings about genres. Salsa gives me something emotionally that's very different than merengue (or reggaeton), and I value it a lot more. It's not really my style to call things "soulless crap" but I'm not sure it's any worse than other over-the-top expression of opinions.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your last sentence, but I don't think critics should feel obliged to cover all types of Latin music, just because they are covering some tpye(s). Why should they embrace all Latin music when Latinos themselves typically do not? There are clusters and groups of genres that go together for formal or histortical/cultural reasons.

(This doesn't mean that I personally refuse to listen to anything but Afro-Cuban/Puerto Rican/NuYorican Latin musics, just that I'm personally most interested in that. Actually, I'm getting curious about Argentina (Gaby Kerpal's CD is on my to buy list), though not especially rock en espanol; and from what I've heard of Brazilian electronic dance music, I think I am going to like much of it.)

Take a look at thisdiscussion of merengue on www.dance-forums.com, to see a range of opinions coming from people who dance salsa. (This is a nice, fairly new, forum for discussing partner dancing of various sorts. It's not my favorite interface, but I've seen people make worse use of its potential for gaudiness and too many little animated smilies.)

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 23:39 (twenty-two years ago)

You're right that nobody has to like everything and writers don't have to cover everything, and certain Latin genres go in certain clusters. I stand corrected. But it would be nice if editors would try to get varied coverage from a number of writers.

I haven't looked at Latin Beat (I think that's the title)magazine in awhile. Have you seen it? It's a salsa and Latin-Jazz glossy partly in Spanish, partly in English. I wonder how their year-end critics poll looked? I used to skim through it or ocassionally buy it at Tower.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Thursday, 19 February 2004 13:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I will take a look at Latin Beat and try to find the year end list, if you want. I end up reading The Beat more often. Considering that Latin Beat is just focused on Latin music, it doesn't seem to go into much detail.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Thursday, 19 February 2004 13:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Latin Beat is not very comprehensive and is kind of uneven that's why I look it at more on the newstand instead of subscribing or bouying it regularly. My father is an Eddie Palmieri fanatic so I bought the 2 issues in which they had a Palmieri record collector fanatic interview him about his life.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's Jeff Chang in all this? Isn't he the expert on who's racist and who isn't? Oh wait, this thread isn't about black people. My bad.

Just for the record: this thread is largely about black people, to the extent that so many Latin musical styles are African diaspora musical hybrids, and so many great "Latin" musicians are, you know, black. But I take Waldo's point. In fact, one of the reasons I posed this question in the first place was my feeling that all the self-righteous talk about hip-hop's critical disenfranchisement was a bit ridiculous. That argument might have made sense ten or fifteen years ago; but now, hip-hop clearly is American pop music, and anyone who doesn't get it -- any critic who doesn't listen to hip-hop/understand its beauty and power, etc. etc. -- has more or less opted out of the game. So it seems to me that Chang et. al. are preaching to the choir. Latin music, on the other hand, actually is largely ignored...

Jody Rosen, Thursday, 19 February 2004 14:10 (twenty-two years ago)

There is no one list from Latin Beat, just lots of lists from different writers. I was going to type up the winners, but I don't feel like it. Maybe just the #1s:

La Ley: Libertad
Bobi Cespedes: Rezos
Daniel Cepeda: Dancing the Drum
Los Soneros del Barrio: Siguiendo la Tradicion
Popo Vasquez: Carnival in San Juan
Alfredo Rodriguez y Los Acereko: Cuban Jazz
Willie Villegas & Entre Amigo: Dancer's Paradise
Orquesta Broadway: 40th Anniversary
Chris Washburn & SYOTOS: Paradise in Trouble

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Wait, those were the #2s. The page design makes it hard to read.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

The #1s:

Soraya: Soraya
John Santos & Machete Ensemble: Brazos Abiertos
Eddie Palmieri: Ritmo Caliente (3 votes)
Yuri Buenaventura: Vagabundo
Amadito Valdes: Bajando Gervaiso
Rumbatela: Let's Go to the Rumba
Andrea Brachfield: Back with Sweet Passion

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:42 (twenty-two years ago)

I think I remember reading a very convincing negative review of that Yuri Buenaventura CD earlier in the year. I was disappointed with Yo Soy, so while I would like to hear this one, I don't think I will be buying it first.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:50 (twenty-two years ago)

this thread is largely about black people, to the extent that so many Latin musical styles are African diaspora musical hybrids, and so many great "Latin" musicians are, you know, black.

I almost said something like this myself, but I figured that the comment was just a joke anyway, and I've made this point often enough in the past. In Colombio (and to a lesser extent, Puerto Rico, I think), salsa (for example--not meaning all Latin music is salsa) has been closely associated with blackness. In the U.S. that isn't the case.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 15:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Colombio? Colombia.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 19 February 2004 17:10 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked scott mentioning manta ray on this forum, although i think this isn't the right thread.
but, chuck: heroes del silencio? moonspell? brrr! please don't spread their names! do your people a favour!

joan vich (joan vich), Thursday, 19 February 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

A boiada seca
Na enxurrada seca
A trovoda seca
Na enxada seca
Segue o seco sem sacar que o caminho é seco
sem sacar que o espinho é seco
sem sacar que seco é Ser Sol
sem sacar que algum espinho seco secará
E a água que secar será um tiro seco
E secará o seu destino seca
Ó chuva vem me dizer
Se posso ir lá em cima pra derramar você
Ó chuva preste atenção
Se o povo lá de cima vive na solidão
Se acabar não acostumando
Se acabar parado calado
Se acabar baixinho chorando
Se acabar meio abandonado
pode ser lágrimas de São Pedro
Ou talvez um grande amor chorando
Pode ser o desabotoado céu
Pode ser côco derramado

Translation?

Chris V (Chris V), Thursday, 19 February 2004 17:55 (twenty-two years ago)

>>heroes del silencio? moonspell? brrr! please don't spread their names!<<

What don't you like about them? They're really good! But then I'm a sucker for that kind of goth-metal melodrama, and moonspell have incredibly dorky words like most of dark metal bands. as might heroes del silencio, though i don't speak their language. and i've only heard one album by them, to be honest (*avalancha*). the best moonspell album is *sin/pecado,* but i've yet to hear any album by them that i didn't like, and i've heard about five or six, i think.

la ley are boring and generic as hell, near as i can tell, though. i can't believe that could be somebody's favorite album of the year; that's just bizarre.(tho i liked los prisioneros, the chilean cars/clash/police-inspired new wave band la ley evolved out of, quite a bit.)

chuck, Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:09 (twenty-two years ago)

la ley are boring and generic as hell, near as i can tell, though

It's weird, I've got a couple of friends who just flat out ADORE them. Never quite seen the appeal beyond a general 'oh right, that's okay I guess' reaction.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Where's Jeff Chang in all this? Isn't he the expert on who's racist and who isn't? Oh wait, this thread isn't about black people. My bad.

Wow. WOW. Dude won't even name himself. Impressive show of backbone, there.

Jody wrote:

Just for the record: this thread is largely about black people, to the extent that so many Latin musical styles are African diaspora musical hybrids, and so many great "Latin" musicians are, you know, black. But I take Waldo's point. In fact, one of the reasons I posed this question in the first place was my feeling that all the self-righteous talk about hip-hop's critical disenfranchisement was a bit ridiculous. That argument might have made sense ten or fifteen years ago; but now, hip-hop clearly is American pop music, and anyone who doesn't get it -- any critic who doesn't listen to hip-hop/understand its beauty and power, etc. etc. -- has more or less opted out of the game. So it seems to me that Chang et. al. are preaching to the choir. Latin music, on the other hand, actually is largely ignored...

-- Jody Rosen (jodyrose...), February 19th, 2004.

You know what Jody? I totally agree.

My point has always been: if folks can't even recognize hip-hop, then can we expect them recognize other forms of popular music-particularly non-English, non-North American forms? That point has been lost in all the above-style knee-jerkism that passes for, duh, critical "thought" these days.

For the record: I've grown up with hip-hop, so except for Hawaiian music, reggae, soul, and classic rock, most of the exposure I've gotten to other forms of music has come through hip-hop music, or hip-hop-influenced reappropriation.

I remember seeing "Fania at Yankee Stadium" in maybe like 1981 or 2 on Night Flight (on TBS, anyone remember that?) when I was a early teen and I had no way to understand that until years later with, I don't know, Malcolm McLaren playing merengue (that is, hiring a Dominican pick-up band to play it) or Urban Dance Squad sampling Ray Barretto or the Solsonics playing Cal Tjader or whatever. (I'm not saying all of these were of equal value! Just saying that's how I got here.)

My own P+J lists have slowly evolved over a decade into more global sounds; that's how many of us who grew up with hip-hop moved, outward and upward.

Are we the new hegemony? Apparently not. See friend "Waldo" above.

Preaching to the choir, well maybe. It's also possible that the same folks that aren't paying attention to hip-hop are the same people not paying attention to Latin musics. That's my gut instinct.

Jeff Chang, Friday, 20 February 2004 00:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't see any contradiction between being largely uninterested in hiphop and being very enthusiastic about Latin music, or other non-Anglo popular music, but I'm not part of the music journalism business.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 20 February 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Am I wrong, or did the two people who refer to Jeff Chang actually mean Oliver Wang (an entirely different person!) on this thread?:

Feminists and Feminist Sympathizers Unite: A Bold Call for Pazz & Jop Activism

chuck, Friday, 20 February 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Jeff: thanks for your thoughtful remarks. I myself am working my way -- slowly -- "into more global sounds." And I definitely agree with you about our pal Waldo.

Chuck: thanks for the clarification. In fact, I did get a bit confused between Messrs. Chang and Wang for a second there, probably because both have had interesting things to say about hip-hop and rock-crit discourse. I especially appreciated Jeff's very provocative SF Bay Guardian piece of several weeks back.

Jody Rosen, Friday, 20 February 2004 05:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Chang, Wang - we're all (Asian) brothers of the same mind, unblind.

Jody - you misread my other ILM comments. I wasn't suggesting that hip-hop is disenfranchised within P&J. I do think that the "critical community" that contributes to P&J doesn't value hip-hop as much as other potential communities but mine was not an indictment of P&J for that, just the observation that there is not ONE community we can speak of when it comes to critics.

Oliver Wang (Oliver Wang), Friday, 20 February 2004 07:12 (twenty-two years ago)

chuck, i'm ok if you like heroes del silencio. i just can't stand their self-indulgent and fake epic rock. and since they were massive around here, i had to cope with it for almost a decade.

joan vich (joan vich), Friday, 20 February 2004 11:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Oliver: fair enough. And sorry sorry sorry about the Wang/Chang confusion! Take comfort in the fact that you're not one of two Brooklyn-based critics named Jody Rosen.

Jody Rosen, Friday, 20 February 2004 14:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Rockist:

Thanks for the Latin Beat magazine best-ofs. I saw Chris Washburn (spelling?) & his SYOTOS band last year, and I've seen him as a sideman with others. He's also a professor in NYC I believe. He's always involved with well-played Latin-jazz and occasionally salsa, he's a good musician and seems like a nice guy,although he's not,inmho, stretching the tradition or doing anything new with it that others haven't.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Rockist, I also agree with you that some folks might embrace certain internationally originated music forms but not hip-hop.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Monday, 23 February 2004 14:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Here's yet another merengue discussion in a salsa dance forum.

Steve (just saw your comments now), the name Chris Washburn looks familiar to me, but I don't know why.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 5 March 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

I first saw him I think with the late Chico O'farill (spelling?). He's a trombonist.

Steve Kiviat (Steve K), Friday, 5 March 2004 05:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm listening to Yuri Buenaventura's Yo Soy. I only meant to play the first track ("Salsa"), but then I got distracted. "Yo Soy," the song, is really good too, even if it's pretty similar to "Salsa." Even the Latin jazz sounds better tonight, and the Afro-Colombian Curruiao (whatever that genre is) song is real good. The Elton John cover still seems ill-advised, but it's not entirely awful. "Madre" is a rather salsafied cumbia. Oh, this is the song Melcochita sings too (I think).

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 13 March 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Sorry this isn't really on-topic, but I didn't know where else to put it without starting a Yuri Buenaventura thread, which seems like it would be a little excessive.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Saturday, 13 March 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Robi Draco Rosa, Mad Love (great moody pop and art-rock from former Menudo member, writer of "Livin' La Vida Loca" therefore genius)

Sergent Garcia, La Semilla Escondida (fusion of Cuban and Jamaican musics from French Spaniard, much better than I've heard him before, some damn hot fire and some slow burners)

Paulina Rubio, Pau-latina (every single Latin music in the world all melted into shiny pop singles)

these are the 2004 latin all-stars that I've heard, along with Tego Calderon, so far this year to date.

Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Saturday, 13 March 2004 03:56 (twenty-two years ago)

one year passes...
Revive.

I enjoyed reading this thread yesterday. So, 18 months on, what's changed?

Obviously reggaeton, only slightly more than a rumour when this thread was started, has now crossed over and is on the verge of becoming massive. Will this likely transfer to end of year votes? Albums or just singles?

And will it help give a leg up to other Latin-American music? More generally, what are those of you who know about it excited about currently?

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 15 August 2005 11:46 (twenty years ago)

on the verge of becoming massive

I think it's already done that over here! I figure "Gasolina" will get a slew of votes at the very least.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 August 2005 12:00 (twenty years ago)

A huge Sunday Washington Post article on Daddy Yankee yesterday with a sidebar list of other reggaeton to buy.

But not many folks are posting on the ILX reggaeton thread.

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 13:46 (twenty years ago)

I've kind of given up on expecting salsa to be more than a niche music. (Or maybe I had never not given up on that.)

On the other hand, it's unfortunate that in one of the historic capitals of salsa, a weekly newspaper with a high-profile music section has paid so little attention to salsa.

I would think they could find something musical to cover in the large Dominican community in NYC. (Maybe they have done so and I've missed it?) Much of the distinctively Latin color in reggaeton (when it appears there at all) is coming from Dominican forms: bachata and merengue.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 13:50 (twenty years ago)

x-post.

Not many folks posting on the ILX salsa 2005 thread either (or on the thread I did on the Latin Alternative Music Conference that just took place in NYC. There was a NY Times article on it).

I like the Daddy Yankee album but I've got a lot more reggaeton buying to do. Other Spanish-language stuff--I like the Los Pleneros del 21 cd(energetic traditional Puerto Rican bomba y plena). I want to get the new hybrid of everything danceable Yerba Buena cd.

RS should weigh in on salsa--which yea is just a niche genre.

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 13:55 (twenty years ago)

Nice thread. Interesting that Argentina was seen as being quiet back then, notwithstanding two outstanding records, Gaby Kerpel (mentioned in passing) and Juana Molina's Segundo (not mentioned at all, I think). And very, very sad to realize that others were anticipating Superiddim Internacional Vol. 2 as much as I was. Does anyone know what happened (I don't)?

Anyway, it's also sad to realize that, for all my love of Hispanic alt-rock, there has been precious little excitement this year, apart from reggaeton.

Vornado, Monday, 15 August 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

Suggest one record here, RS, and see if anyone from said 'community' bites!

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 15 August 2005 13:57 (twenty years ago)

Rolling Salsa 2005 Thread

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

2005 Rolling Reggaeton Thread

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 14:09 (twenty years ago)

Jeff W, I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean the Dominican community? I like some of what I've heard from Krisspy in the DR, but he's merengue tipico, not particularly cutting edge. However, I think he's working with reggaeton people as well now. Has New York's, mostly Dominican, Fulanito ever gotten coverage in the Voice? That would seem like an obvious one (Dominican forms + hip-hop, house, techno, etc. elements). I like some of their songs.

(I am reading that article in the Washington Post, and I get really tired of seeing salsa mentioned as another element in reggaeton when there is really very little of it there, and I don't think that reggaeton is able to contain the full range of salsa's multi-layered rhythmic complexity. Salsa does a better job of containing reggaeton elements than vice versa, just like it's able to contain a layer of bomba, plena, or cumbia rhythm.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:15 (twenty years ago)

Can't find the link to the thread about the Latin Alternative Music
Conference.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR2005081200376.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR2005081200377.html

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 14:23 (twenty years ago)

x-post to RS

No I meant the community of contributers to "a weekly newspaper with a high-profile music section [that] has paid so little attention to salsa". But you go on to suggest someone anyway. So job done.

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:24 (twenty years ago)

"Anyway, it's also sad to realize that, for all my love of Hispanic alt-rock, there has been precious little excitement this year, apart from reggaeton."-Vornado

Would Norteno fanatics agree with that? Or bachata fans? What are you basing that on...

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

I think a story on the Rumba Jams label, positive, negative, or ambivalent would be appropriate. They put out some of the most popular traditionalist New York salsa dura stuff, just a bit outside the mainstream, but some of it is actually adventurous. The Anthony Blea album they put out last year has some things on it that I'm impressed with (the title track, "La Virgen de la Caridad" and "Tumba Randy" in particular). But these veer more toward jazz or Latin music as very nearly art music rather than pop. Something like that might make sense more than discussing individual artists, where the reader may not have any context to understand why they might be good or interesting or whatever.

Oh, also, even though I'm always trashing it, how about something about contemporary Cuban timba, etc. which is off doing its own slightly different thing, and sometimes throws out something really distinctive. Lots of x-Van Van members have been releasing solo material and at least some of it is good. (Cesar Pedroso, Pedrito Calvo, Felix Baloy, and Angel Bonne are examples. At least I think they are all x-Van Van.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

But anyway, the Dominicans are doing hip-hop and reggaeton, like everyon else. Luny Tunes is Dominican. So whatever. Carry on.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:48 (twenty years ago)

Little about this thread gives me the least fucking idea why anyone does or should care about Latin music.

Not that people don't or shouldn't care; just that this thread is oddly tepid for ILX, especially given how vehement some of the participants are elsewhere. And maybe that's the answer to Jody's question: The people in the P&J universe who give a shit can't communicate why, and therefore the others continue not to give a shit.

xpost
(But maybe the problem was in the thread title: If it had been "Why should I give a shit about Latin music?" it might have gotten its question answered.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:50 (twenty years ago)

I can't speak for the writers here, but I'm not one, so I reserve the right to be tepid on a music discussion board. I'd rather just send out the occasional music mix and hope for the best than seriously attempt to persuade people to like or even be interested in the music I like.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

I get really tired of seeing salsa mentioned as another element in reggaeton when there is really very little of it there

Well, what's happening on Mega 95.7 in Denver ("Latino and Proud: Reggaeton and Spanish hip-hop") is that you'll get a whole array of stuff that contain elements of reggaeton and hip-hop, including some Latin romantic pop songs with raps in them, sometimes salsa with rap or reggaeton elements, and all this will possibly end up under the rubric "reggaeton." The quasi-salsa stuff isn't top of the playlist, but it's there. And you'll get salsa as a non-integral signifier in some reggaeton - e.g., "Scandalous" by Cuban Link f. Don Omar starts and ends with a salsa piano fillip that you hear nothing of during the main body of the song.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

By the way, hip-hop has had a lot of Hispanics in it from early on, as has disco.

(As had garage rock, once upon a time.)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

Natalia Lafourcade's new record (she's now fronting a band called Natalia y La Forquetina) comes out in two weeks. I saw the video for the first single, it's way more rockin' than her last disc, but equally great. I can't wait to hear the whole thing.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

Frank:

I've suggested here and elsewhere that Chuck Eddy when putting together the P & J electorate should try to get more writers included who write about Spanish-Language sounds. I've encouraged him to track down writers from the Beat, the Latin Beat, as well as contributors to various newspapers. Last I heard, he said he'd have an intern track down those magazines.

Frank, folks like your writing here but your posts about reggaeton have not inspired more folks to get 'into' regggaeton here (there haven't been many follow-up posts I should say). Most folks on ILX are busy with other genres so that they don't have time to add more to their plate(that's one take---you could also say they're just insular and unadventurous but I don't agree with that). The Voice used to have Ed Morales and Enrique Fernandex writing about Latin music, now who do they or other alt-weeklies have.

Some of us who do write about such music do so after-work, after dealing with family, etc. I wish I had time to listen to more Spanish-language music(and more time to learn Spanish). There may be great blogs en espanol out there that we don't know about.

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 15:15 (twenty years ago)

sometimes salsa with rap or reggaeton elements, and all this will possibly end up under the rubric "reggaeton."

When I'm out dancing (not often enough, but it's happening again), I often hear one or two salsa-with-reggaeton songs that I like but can't identify. (Not knowing Spanish doesn't help, of course.)

And you'll get salsa as a non-integral signifier in some reggaeton

Exactly. I didn't mean it was never there in that sense, although I don't even hear too many reggaeton songs with even that much of it present. (I depend more on downloading things I've heard about than on radio, since there's no Latin radio in Philadelphia that I'm aware of. I should try out one of the streaming reggaeton shows.) I think it's a lot more common to hear bachata-like guitar or merengue-like accordion and horns.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 15:49 (twenty years ago)

Frank,

another explanation for the 'tepidness' you perceive is that some of us are just worn down trying to explain why we value certain non-English language music, and having to face lack of interest, knee-jerk criticism(oh that NPR Public tv liberal hippie stuff for people that are too old for rock or oh that foreign language pop junk on the tv channels I flip through)...etc. If I write excitedly about something it doesn't necessarily mean I'll get heated responses. If you post a vehement thread on your laptop in the woods and nobody reads it or responds to it ...

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Since I have no stake in the subject other than curiosity, I actually like the tepid, (mostly) civilised nature of this thread!

I suspect Frank was being deliberately provocative though, in response to (more tepid) provocation from me and RS.

Natalia Lafourcade's new record (she's now fronting a band called Natalia y La Forquetina) comes out in two weeks
I'm excited about this too.

But what else is there?

Jeff W (zebedee), Monday, 15 August 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

Sorry for being so pissy in my last post. But I am at odds with the premise of Jody's first post way-back-when, which sort of assumes that something that's big in New York must be in the Voice and Pazz and Jop purview. The basic reason that Latin music isn't big on P&J is that the P&J rank-and-file haven't found a reason to care about Latin music. Just as they haven't found a reason to care about show tunes, which are also big in New York - though that may be a somewhat different issue. I don't think most P&J'ers feel an antipathy for Latin music; rather, an indifference. Whereas some P&J'ers probably do feel an antipathy for show tunes, country, metal, and adult contemporary, which are genres that they also pass over come ballot time.

(Not that the reasons for indifference and antipathy shouldn't be explored, of course. But no one is obligated to overcome his or her indifference, and no one will unless given a reason to care. As Mykel Board asked rather pointedly in the old WMS, why should anyone care about something that seems to have nothing to do with one's life?)

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 15 August 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

It may not be the job of individual p & j contributors to care about something that has nothing to do with their life, but it should be the job of music section editors worldwide to look outside their own individual tastes, and for the p & j poobahs to look around and try to pay some attention to genres other than indie-rock or major label classic rockers.

You (or someone) complemented Chuck Eddy for taking the affirmative step of covering country music in the Village Voice. Chuck could have just polled NYU college kids and Brooklyn rock hipsters and decided that only indie-rock has any relevency. But he didn't do that. Chuck has covered and had others cover Latin rock and pop. I just want him and other editors to try to do even more.

Also, well over a year ago, I read someone on ILX smugly assert that anything that is important in music is being covered by their favorite blogs or ILX. I responded that I was reading about music in the Beat magazine that I never read about in blogs, and that I listen to some current bluesy chitlin circuit southern soul that is also never covered in the blog world. For whatever reason, nothing seems to have changed on that.

steve-k, Monday, 15 August 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Well, I was thinking about raising the question of who the Village Voice thinks its target audience is. (I find it frustrating that the Weekly papers in Philadelphia generally don't even list major salsa acts when they are in town. That may be the fault of the promoters though. Also, I sometimes get the impression that a lot of Latinos are ambivalent about attracting a gringo crowd to some of these events that are partly expressions of Puerto Rican identity, especially in Philadelphia which is somewhat notorious--at least among those who would know--for a certain sort of Puerto Rican nationalist pride.)

To go back to the original post, I don't see where 70's salsa was so far removed from soul and funk, on the one hand, or classic rock on the other (less in musical terms than in terms of the intentions of some of the more album-oriented things*, especially Willie Colon's projects), so it's invisibility in P&J seems slightly puzzling to me.

*Not that soul and funk wasn't album-oriented at times.

But no one is obligated to overcome his or her indifference, and no one will unless given a reason to care.

I agree with this. (I don't like most of the music that most people here are most excited aboout, I think.) But you also have to remember that this thread was created partly in reaction to one of the annual post-P&J ILM People's Tribunals formed in order to judge whether or not certain lists, and the sensibilities they reflect, were racist or not. I think some of the Latin music fans posting on this thread were just chiming in to say: yeah, what about Latin music?

Also, although I'm not sure what more to say about this, or how it should fit in: the music I've liked over a matter of years has almost never been something I've gotten into because of what someone wrote about it. It's general been because of radio play, or exposure in the context of dancing, or occasionally it's been due to very persistent friends. (You could then ask why I should care about P&J. I don't really care that much.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

I would rather go out and be with my salseros and salseras than try to give people a reason to care about it. It's a cult, and I have joined.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

I won't duplicate my posts on the Latin music conference thread Steve linked on here. But as for P&J, lack of interest is perhaps a reflection of the way many radio and most video formats either exclude Latin entirely, or only feature as "novelty" breakout, and/or something too big to be denied: ideally, something that's both, like "heyyy, we're inclusive; look at this goofy "Livin' La Vida Loca"!) I really wonder, also, about CMT's featuring only Los Lonely Boys, when the Southeast has more of an increase in its Latin population than any other region. But the Texas and other Western markets still exert a bigass influence, and you've got all these self-appointed border patrols, etc.(not that VH-1, MTV, CMT, BET are aren't all Viacom-owned and suburban as hell, to a large extent; anxiety enough for all)

don, Monday, 15 August 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

(Incidentally, partially in chuck's defense, didn't we establish that there were some new Latin music types voting in the last P&J? Arora Flores and Dave Hucker, among others--unless they had voted previously.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 15 August 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

And as for personal tastes,Chuck's been into Latin a long time, and written about it(For instance, a bigass exploration of Rock En Espanol, and Spin even sprung for research in Mexico, but then Bob G. Jr. fired everybody again, and it was published in The Wire.)And he bombarded me with tapes of Caifanes, Cafe Tacuba, etc. (Later got into banda, Manu Chao, and teen-poppier flavors too.)

don, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 03:58 (twenty years ago)

True, I guess I just get the impression that he mostly likes Latin stuff that is a take on more familiar American(U.S.)-grown genres (which isn't especially what interests me).

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 10:24 (twenty years ago)

Chuck has reached out to those Spanish-language genres, and has added many writers to the poll(and likely sent out ballots to others who may have not responded). It does taking reaching out. For better or worse, gringo me has found that I have to do that when I want to highlight an upcoming event or review it. I find out about virtually all of the international music concerts/dances that non-Anglos have promoted via posters, flyers in 'ethnic' restaurants, AM radio and contact the promoter. I then try to convince said promoters to keep me and the publications in mind when they are pushing their next event.

steve-k, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:58 (twenty years ago)

As RS has pointed out, and Jody did originally, there is a sizeable audience in New York for salsa, and merengue, and now reggaeton (and yes also Frank for show tunes, metal, and country but arguably not as large) and a music editor (and Pazz & jop poobah)IMHO should try to get folks to write about all of those genres no matter the indifference of the existing p & j electorate. If that makes me some kind of annoying advocate for politically correct multiculturalism so be it. (Yea, the percentage of New Yorkers who are or are not into certain genres should not be the only factor affecting coverage).

steve-k, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 14:38 (twenty years ago)

Steve - I'd love people to write about all those genres, and I have. (Partial list of people who've covered Latin music in the Voice in the past couple years: Larry Blumenfeld, Eugene Holley, Irin Carmon, Tad Hendrickson, Carol Cooper, Richard Gehr, Raquel Cepeda, Michael Diebert, Matt Cibula, Carola Dibbel, Julian Dibbel, Aurora Flores, probably several more I'm not thinking of right now.) But just as with show tunes (or country, or metal), I need to be convinced first that writers have interesting things to *say* about the genres. I don't see the point in covering them just because they exist (which I don't *think?* you're suggesting); I *don't* want tepid coverage. But I think the Voice has covered Latin music plenty, and we'll continue to do so. (And much of what we cover is *not* "a take on more familiar American(U.S.)-grown genres," which hardly describes all the Latin music I find interesting. Though the Voice coves plenty of stuff that I personally don't care for, too; my own tastes are not a prerequisite for the section -- what's important is that the *writer* makes it sound interesting.) (Though I still gotta say: Ten years ago, my own Pazz & Jop ballots had way more Latin records on them than country records or rock records; now that's not the case. Since I still try to *listen* to Latin music, that suggests to me that there's not nearly as much interesting Latin stuff happening now as there was a decade ago. I might very well be wrong, but I don't see many writers out there now convincingly suggesting that I'm missing out on much. If they exist, and if they can write, of course I would love to talk to them, and quite possibly get them into the section.)

xhuxk, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:04 (twenty years ago)

> Ten years ago, my own Pazz & Jop ballots had way more Latin records on them than country records or rock records<

Anglo/gringo rock records I mean (since many if not most of the Latin records I voted for back then could also be classified as "rock.")

xhuxk, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)

I mean, obviously, too, the tastes of the Pazz and Jop electorate do not much determine what records get covered in the section, and never have (though I do *try* to cover most of the records that place in Pazz& Jop. But that doesn't mean I avoid genres of music that don't.)

xhuxk, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)

> "heyyy, we're inclusive; look at this goofy "Livin' La Vida Loca"!)<

Well, actually, that particular single was one of the best Latin records of recent years, so it's GOOD that it placed in Pazz & Jop. (Ditto "Macarena." Now if only Los Ketchup had done so well.)

xhuxk, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 20:08 (twenty years ago)

See, I'd say there are a few hundred salsa songs from that same time frame that are better (and I like "Livin' La Vida Loca.

There may only be a couple hundred salsa songs from the past few year that are better than the Las Ketchup one though.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

And look, I assume you would want someone to say something like this, but I'll say it anyway: "Livin La Vida Loca" doesn't have a much of anything to it that is distinctively Latin. It's hard to know exactly where you would place it if you think it's one of the best Latin songs from its time period, but if you really would place it well above most other Latin music from that time frame, it does nothing to change my suspicion that you don't want anything too foreign sounding or too far away from familiar rock/pop models.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 11:43 (twenty years ago)

It's kind of like, "Ah yes, rock music, I like that Paul Anka cover of "Smells Like Teen Spirit."

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 11:53 (twenty years ago)

What "familiar rock/pop model" is it close to, Rockist? It sounds more *new* and less generic (and hence *less* familiar) than any salsa track I've heard in the past ten years. (Though again, sure, I don't doubt that I've missed some.) And yes, some of the music it incorporates (surf, ska, Europop, Bon Jovi) is not explicitly Latin, but since when has Latin music *not* incorporated music from the rest of the world? That's part of what I like about the stuff. And where did I say that I want all Latin music to be Ricky Martin? Loving a particular song doesn't mean one wants every other song to sound the same.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 11:57 (twenty years ago)

just out of curiosity, do you think rock en espanol -- Los Fabulosos Cadillacs, Caifanes, Maldita, Chico Science, Atercopelados, whoevever -- has "nothing distinctively Latin in it" as well? It's almost like you're pretending that any roping in of non-Latin influences negates the Latin stuff that's already there. I don't get that at all. (And as far as "La Vida Loca," its ska influence could just as well be a Mexican influence as far as I can tell. Those two-beat rhythms aren't too far apart. Latin American countries have been swapping influences from the rest of the Caribbean -- and the rest of the world -- for centuries. Why should they stop now?)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:03 (twenty years ago)

And surf guitars are rooted in Mexico as well! (And Jon Bon Jovi is Italian!! OK maybe that doesn't count.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:06 (twenty years ago)

No I wouldn't say that about rock en espanol (which I don't really know very well anyway).

I didn't realize surf guitars were rooted in Mexico, so you've schooled me on that.

(More in a bit, I have to move.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

And besides all that, Rockist, okay, what the heck, I'll totally agree with you: I probably think that non-Latin music is something in it that Latin music needs, that makes Latin music *better*. So? I'd say the same thing about country or metal or hip-hop or show tunes; they *all* seem to benefit by bringing in other stuff. Why is it a problem to think that way?

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

(non-Latin music HAS something in it etc., I mean.) (Like, STUFF.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

What's wrong with that is that sometimes a particular mix works really well as it is. (I realize salsa is already a mix, one that even includes N. American jazz elements.) I don't embrace purist taste as a starting point, I don't think. I just prefer relatively pure strains of certain genres that I like. When I don't like a particular genre very much--take house, for example, or even jazz--I tend to like it more when something else is mixed in, in a big way.

I'm not talking about absolute purity here anyway. I was just saying that something like "Livin La Vida Loca" is more like international pop with a very thin Latin gloss (mostly consisting of the fact that Ricky Martin happens to be singing it). Maybe I was wrong about that for the reasons you suggested, although I need to go listen to the song again and think about it.

You may be right that "Livin La Vida Loca" was more novel within pop music than most salsa songs from the same period were within salsa*, but I'd still say that salsa as a genre is a lot more foreign to U.S. ears in its rhythmic foundation, which seems pretty crucial to me (and which is one reason lots of people have trouble finding the beat), and often in its vocal timbres (very nasal choruses, in some cases, for example).

I'm afraid it's actually coming down more to this: I prefer Latin music from traditions that aren't as closely related (rhythmically, in particular) to music from the U.S. From what I've seen (and I've only read your reviews and so forth pretty casually), you seem to prefer rock en espanol and Latin pop, but I guess also some Latin styles (particularly from Mexico). And I suppose I can't get away with saying those don't count simply because I'm not too interested in them.

I don't know. A lot of Mexican music seems so close to rock and country (if it isn't) that it just seems like more of the same. (It really is North America! That always used to come as a shock, but musically it makes sense.)

(I do remember you liked an Omar Sosa CD, which made me kind of jealous, because I wanted to get into it but couldn't. (I like the Afro-Cuban percussion framework, but didn't liked his piano playing much.)


*That's a paraphrase, I realize.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 13:18 (twenty years ago)

>you seem to prefer rock en espanol and Latin pop, but I guess also some Latin styles (particularly from Mexico). <

Yeah, this is pretty close. Though I also totally love Eddie Palmieri and Jorge Ben, and I like lots of what I've heard by Los Van Van and Gilberto Gil and Tito Puente and plenty of other people from south of North America. (And I've liked every Omar Sosa CD I've heard, and he seems to put out two or three every year! Just got a 1997-2000 compilation by him in the mail yesterday; haven't put it on yet. It's called *Ballads*, for some reason. I wonder why.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 13:47 (twenty years ago)

Some of the solo projects from X-Van Van people are pretty good. I recommend Cesar Pedroso's "El Buenagente." It's kind of distinctive (mostly because of what he's doing rhythmically). The rest of the CD was more so-so.

rockistscientistloggedout, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

xhuxk you must hear the new eddie palmieri it's grate

i love this discussion

i have heard less latin music this year (also brazilian) than any recent year, not sure what that means other than I no longer have MTVEspanol because we switched to Dish Network, also SiTV's music shows kinda suck a little bit

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 14:04 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, Rockist got it, insofar as my Steve Martin imitation, re "heyy we're inclusive,look at that goofy 'La Vida Loca,'" was not a put-down of the song, but of the way it stood (in isolation) as token, and thus novelty. Plus, it seemed to be chosen for the more hyped-up qualities (an "emotional" Latin, you know how those people are, Muffy!)(hyped up by asssurances of massive label support too, with all the interesting, not-quite-payola etc. potential, not that labels don't still outright pay for play in video channels, despite controversies about this on radio, last I heard(actually,it's as much like what I would have liked Bowie's mid-80s, poppy winning streak to have been like, if he hadn't gotten sick of it after "China Girl" or so)Also, reminded me of when MTV was saying "Look, we *have* started showing blacks: Here's 'Thriller'!(not putting down "Thriller" either)But the Michael stuff kind of opened the door, or anyway they got to rap, etc. Re Latin-associated pop, they got to one or two things by Marc Anthony (also good) Enrique Iglesias (eeeuuu), J-Lo (should only be allowed in with escort: "Eres Tu," with Marc, was okay, and she was okay with Ja Rule, or Ja Rule was)Maybe count Nelly Furtado (yay, but more suburban singer-songwriter-pop from the hip-hop generation than Latin, though she was into that too, audibly. Second album, Folklore, more Latin-sounding, but went bye-bye, esp from video). Latin on mainstream charts seems to be recurrent but intermittant, like ska revivals. And audience, the members I know, tend to be as intent on their own tastes, and as hostile/indifferent to others within the same genre or perimeter, as in jazz (arguements over "that's not jazz"/that's not Latin" and all)To an extent, this reflects how big and how varied/deep Latin and jazz are.(I must not think bad thoughts.) But notice jazz aint exactly all over mainstream media either, unless George Benson ever shows up again.

don, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)

>audience, the members I know, tend to be as intent on their own tastes, and as hostile/indifferent to others within the same genre or perimeter, as in jazz (arguements over "that's not jazz"/that's not Latin" and all)<

but of course you could say the same for country, or metal, or hip-hop, or punk, or pretty much anything probably. (show tunes? i dunno.)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 14:37 (twenty years ago)

OMG theater people are CONSTANTLY bitching about what constitutes show tunes, whether or not huge Broadway spectaculars have killed the "real" Broadway musical, etc. George Gershwin = the original gangsta, as well as the first to bring scary "race" music into Tin Pan Pussycatism.

Let us not forget, Mr. Eddy, that "Livin' La Vida Loca" was written by Ricky's ex-Menudo-mate Robi Draco Rosa, about whom we have argued most entertainingly. Also, yeah, surf music is heavily Mexican/Californian, but more to the point are those horns and chorus shouts, which have a lot to do with Cuban son and Caribbean dance music; I could make a half-million bucks by remaking that song as a dancehall / reggaeton / soca hybrid. (Think how that would sound!)

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

but more to the point are those horns and chorus shouts, which have a lot to do with Cuban son and Caribbean dance music

Hmmm, I don't remember it that way, but will have to listen again when I'm home.

One reason it might sound so much like generic international pop to me may simply be that once it came out everybody around the world start doing imitations of it. I've recently heard some Armenian pop that sounds somewhat similar, and there are definitely a lot of Arabic Latin pop knock-offs (which I don't particularly like) going for a Ricky Martin sound.

rockistscientistonloggedoutpc, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:23 (twenty years ago)

(Matt, Rickey reminded me of Bowie way before I ever heard of the connection to ol' Ziggista Draco; I'll have to check that out too.)Yeah, tell retail me about it,Chuck: fans in every genre incl. some that really really don't wanta know about anything else, and SHUT THAT SHIT OFF and still pissed when/if I do (fuck you); pissed that it even exists. But monads affect what was (usually)already marginalized, in the case of jazz and Latin, I suspect (just speculating.) Not that there isn't an audience, but this is a bigass country, easy to get lost/contained in. But what's cool is: I went back to my Granny's town,in Appalachia. To Wal-Mart (first place I'd seen one; that's the kind of place they started in, yknow.) And (it's now a Super Center, surprize) soon's I got to music section, first thing I saw was Manu Chao, Radio Bemba Sound System Live. And they had everything all organized: nortena, tejana, ranchera, mariachi, banda,some Rock En Espanol, Los Lonely Boys, natch. Not much Rickey, Marc or any other mainstreamed pop that I recognized. The immigrants there are mostly from Mexico and Central America, from what I've read (oh,Laundry Service and earlier albums from Shakira's big ol butt[ylicious], but that was only South American) Plenty of cultural activity starting to surface: local bands, and a guy's had a radio station on his living room for quite a while; prob podcasting now. But this is homebase for migrant workers (not entirely that, but to significant degree), and I dont know how many CDs they buy (prices weren't so low), and how many they bother to carry around or have time to listen to. Not so much musica, that I've seen, on the Spanish-language national/international cable channel they get; more talk shows, Reality (more Viacom?)

don, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

best places for latin music are circuit city, wal-mart, and best buy. our local wal-mart doesn't file anything, even alphabetically, and leans on pretty much a 45% reggaeton / 45% banda + norteno / 10% "other latin mix; this is occasionally acceptable by me, if it's late and I have $9.99 burning a hole in my pocket I know I can find something from Disa Music or Universal Latino that goes down like tequila on a lizard

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

To get back to Steve's original question, here are the Latinate CDs I'm considering so far in 2005 for my P & J list:

Intocable, Diez (X) (Texas Mex-pop)
Eddie Palmieri, Listen Here! (Salsa jazz)
Banda el Recodo, Hay Amor (Banda/norteno)
El Grupo Montez de Durango, Y Le Sigue Dando (Banda pop)
Andrea Echeverri, Andrea Echeverri (smooth Colombian EZ listening pop)
Miguel Zenon, Jibaro (P.R. folk-influenced jazz)
Kinto Sol, La Sangre Nunca Muere (Milwaukee/Mex rap)
Crooked Stilo, Retraselo (L.A. Mex/Colombian rap)
Heloisa Fernandes, Fruto

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

(Fernandes' album is Brazilian jazz, heavily influenced by Bill Evans and forro jive)

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

my name's not Steve, H. But since you're the first to actually answer I'll let it go ;-)

Jeff W (zebedee), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:53 (twenty years ago)

haha I was talking about the very first post, Jeff, as I forgot that this was started by Jody "Not-beth" Rosen instead of Steve Kiviat. Whoops!

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 15:55 (twenty years ago)

Can't think of any Latin P&J-bait at the moment (that I've heard). Koma is a good, thuddy-minded Spanish metal band (who sound like ancestors-once-removed of Gogol Bordello on one track, Shakur Collective on another) (both of which pertain to truly olde escuela Latin, if go back along yon trade/diaspora routes) DeSol sort of like Los Lonely Boys with wider range of elements (my RS-LaRue-educated ears detect), and moods; new Ill Nino and Soufly haven't listened to yet (I'd listen to poppier stuff if I had it; what's Yolanda Perez up to these days?)( "Bill Evans *and* forro jive"? Well, Steely Dan's all into Bill, so might meld. Must check.)

don, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

Yolanda Perez is having a baby, so don't expect anything from her this year.

Grapevinenym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

After all my bitching, I can't point to a lot of great 2005 releases, especially album length releases, in my end of Latin music. I'm waiting to receive a copy of Echu Mingua which I'm expecting will be good. (Last year there were lots of very good salsa tracks, and a handful of good albums.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

Nice to see that this thread is still going, a year and half later. Haikunym, thanks for your P&J list: bunch of things there that I've never heard and will check out ASAP. (Incidentally, Irving Berlin was the original gangsta, not Gershwin -- but that's a different discussion.)

Jody Rosen, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 17:20 (twenty years ago)

Irving Berlin : Professor Moriarty :: George Gershwin : Meyer Lansky

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 17:24 (twenty years ago)

Heloisa Fernandes, Fruto

i heard about her from somewhere. any more information as to where i can pick this up, by chance?

katie, a princess (katie, a princess), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

I got my album directly from her! She's a sweetheart. My advice is to try to find Brazilian music sites, or go to the label site at http://www.maritaca.art.br .

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

Nao Wave and The Sexual Lives Of Savages (Simon reviewed both in Voice) are fabulous, often enough: Post-Punk, but in their own way, which includes plenty Brazilian- and Euro-associated elements (as of course did Tropicalia, even before exile to London, and other 60s Latins making use of Los Beatles' methods etc.)(Los Post-Punks might be pissed by that, since anthologists' notes assert that at least some of 'em hated Tropicalia as much they did bossa nova and stuf)

don, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

I just want to jump briefly on an RS throwaway line, that he should take back:

It isn't just some coincidence or imitation that Latin elements show up in Arabic pop music. I think there is a huge amount of interest on the part of secular, internationalist Arabs (i.e., most of the ones doing pop music) in Iberia as the connection between Dar-es-Islam and Europe. Hence the fascination, initially with Andalusian flamenco (which is not so far from Arabic music to begin with) and then by extension to other types of music from the Hispanic world.

The interest runs both ways, too -- there is a fair amount of interest in Arabic culture and Arabic music in the Hispanic world, too. (El Gran Silencio! Can someone answer my effing question about EGS?)

Vornado, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

It isn't just some coincidence or imitation that Latin elements show up in Arabic pop music. I think there is a huge amount of interest on the part of secular, internationalist Arabs (i.e., most of the ones doing pop music) in Iberia as the connection between Dar-es-Islam and Europe. Hence the fascination, initially with Andalusian flamenco (which is not so far from Arabic music to begin with) and then by extension to other types of music from the Hispanic world.

I'm not sure why I should take it back, but I agree 100% with what you are saying, 100%.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

I didn't answer your effing question about El Gran Silencio because it's been effing answered on another thread, effing Vornado; basically, effing EGS and a bunch of other formerly effing cool bands from effing Monterrey have lost their effing label support and currently don't have effing contracts. One Mexican dude who came by said that the effing company didn't want to release effing Super Riddim Internacional Volume 2 because it was too effing weird. Effing okay, then, mate?

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:17 (twenty years ago)

They are still Arabic Latin pop knock-offs. The things I've heard are not linking up Spanish/Latin music to Arabic music as deeply as they could be linked. In some case they are hardly adding anything Arabic, just coming out with something that sounds a lot like Ricky Martin with Arabic lyrics. (I can't point to many examples unfortunately, since I'm not interested enough to keep track of this sort of thing, but I know it's out there. I think I do anyway.) I bet Amro Diab has done some of this type of thing (though it's by no means all he's done).

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

RS: Not that you should take it back, exactly, but you treated it as inconsequential/annoying (which it may be to the compromised purist in you), and I think it is consequential/interesting, because I am Mr. Syncretism.

xpost -- Tons of it in Faudel.

Haikunym: Yes. Thank you. Obviously I missed that thread, and it was v. entertaining. Of course, I knew perfectly well that they had label problems without knowing anything, but it's nice to know that they still exist and there's hope. (No one calls me el gringo chutaro, but I like 'em a lot.)

Vornado, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:33 (twenty years ago)

I knew it was downhill for them when Vulgar left the band. You can't survive losing a bass player named Vulgar.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

V, I just don't think it's interesting syncretism. I admit I left out the fact that there is a large cultural framework in which borrowing from Spanish or Latin American music has a certain meaning.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:56 (twenty years ago)

Also, Egyptian popular music needs to come up with something better than it has in the last 30-35 years, and imitating Ricky Martin isn't going to solve the problem of a floundering (though perhaps not commercially), underachieving, Egyptian popular music industry.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

(More flavors don't necessarily add up to more flavor!)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 17 August 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

There's been all kinds of cross-influence going on between Middle Eastern and Latin American cultures in the past decade or (much) more, from rock en espanol to Algerian rai, from Miami dance-pop to Lebanese dance-pop, from the Gipsy Kings to Shakira. I think it's great, and none of what I've heard sounds all that much like Ricky Martin. Frank Kogan has written excellently about it, in relation, I believe, to Latin freestyle music; the back and forth has been going on for centuries, to back before the Spanish language was ever even brought to Latin America. Not sure if this is what you guys are referring to or not. Just making sure you're aware of it!

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

(And it's absolutely a two-way street, too, if that wasn't clear. Even ask Rachid Taha sometime!)

xhuxk, Wednesday, 17 August 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

dammit I forgot some of my favorite records of the year wtf

Javier Garcia, 13 (Cuban/Irish Spaniard who moved to Miami)
Superaquello, Bien Gorgeous and La Emergencia (Puerto Rican retro-futuro-pop)
Kobol, Broken Ebony (ex-Nortec guy plus drummer = IDMex)
Fax, Collaborations & Remixes (more IDMex, except dancey)

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 18 August 2005 00:45 (twenty years ago)

hey rockist, true story, i swear: i just turned on my computer to ask you whether you thought hakim (assuming you'd ever heard him) (or for that matter the al jeel and shaabi music on 1990's great *yalla: hitlist egypt* compilation, assuming you'd ever heard it) "sounds like ricky martin," and i noticed that arabic music thread (which i'd never opened before) and noticed you posted about hakim's new album at the bottom of it! you say you like his singing on his new album (which i haven't heard), cool, but i guess you imply that you didn't like him before? i'm not sure why, though. his *the lion roars: live in america* is a great double-live CD, and he blew me away when i saw him live, if not quite as much as rachid taha blew me away when i saw *him* live. (maybe you give your misgivings about hakim earlier on that thread; i haven't checked.) anyway. i really don't' know all that much about egyptian (or even middle eastern in general) pop music with a few exceptions, to be honest, and i'm just trying to get to the bottom of what "sounds like ricky martin" means, or how literally i'm supposed to take it. do you just mean the music has pop hooks and uses dance-pop production techniques, or something more than that? i'm kinda curious.

xhuxk, Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:01 (twenty years ago)

New sound/jeel is what initially got me into Arabic music, but after buying a lot of Amro Diab, Mustapha Amar, Ihab Toufic, Hanan, etc. cassettes, I got bored with it pretty quickly and have never really gotten interested again. It's still okay with me, but I'm just not interested in it. (I have heard that Yalla Hitlist Egypt comp. which has some of the people I mention above on it.) I haven't actually heard the new Hakim album, I was just listening to a sample on www.rashid.com. I guess he's consider new sound (when I was listening it was more common for Arabs to refer to it as "new sound" than as "al jeel"), but it's also shabai (sp?), like Ahmad Adaweia (who has done some things with a new sound production style that I've liked, though he's kind of fallen out of favor for being too associated with a gay party undergrouond scene, I think). Anyway, I'm not sure if I had heard Hakim before or not. I may have gotten him mixed up with someone else. (Arabic names. . .)

"Sounds like Ricky Martin"--I really meant that I think I've heard a bunch of Arabic things, from around the time Ricky Martin was big, that reminded me specifically of "Livin la Vida Loca" or that other song I can't remember the title of ("carnival" something?). But I didn't keep track of any of this stuff, so I can't point you to specific examples. I don't just mean: any Arabic pop music with western style production. If I find any concrete examples, I will let you know.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

>'ve liked every Omar Sosa CD I've heard, and he seems to put out two or three every year! Just got a 1997-2000 compilation by him in the mail yesterday; haven't put it on yet. It's called *Ballads*, for some reason. I wonder why.<

Heh, having listened to it once, apparently it''s called *Ballads* because it's, um....all ballads. Just total unenergetic piano snoozerama, front to back. What a weird compilation for somebody who usually strikes me as really engaging. But I dunno, maybe it will grow on me. So far, though, I have to say the first sentence above may no longer be true.

xhuxk, Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

(and oh yeah, rockist, thanks for that clarification.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 18 August 2005 12:34 (twenty years ago)

...what am I saying,"duhhh can't think uh no Latin P&J bait, now tell me about th rabbits George duhhhhh"-----Nao Wave and Sexual Lives Of Savages, which I just went on about, probably will be on my P&J, and probably o.p.P.& J. (But I always think that; I'm not trying to do as well in that Glen Macdonals thing as I always do.)And guys, that Latin rock band I mentioned, deSol(self-titled, on Curb, of all labels)fucking kills! May be financial anticipation talking, since I just turned the review in to Kandia, but I copped to how first 3, 4 tracks are a little too like posters of Latin musicians.(Too glossy,although with good morbid images, like in "Karma"; still, not quite Wise Use of obligatory Latin cosmic romantic etc.) But tracks 5.-13. are just sooo insistently, confidently hooky, with hiphop beats sometimes, succinct guitar itch, salsa piano, and they can be cheeky, Baby! May take a few spins, but listen to the promo if you get it! (How's that for a blurb? Should be in the press kit.)

don, Friday, 19 August 2005 06:05 (twenty years ago)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ha3aO6H8XYoJ:www.arts.ualberta.ca/~michaelf/Some%2520Meanings%2520of%2520the%2520Spanish%2520Tinge.rtf+zajal+cds&hl=en

Some Meanings of the Spanish Tinge in Contemporary Egyptian music

Michael Frishkopf

[Published in Mediterranean Mosaic, edited by Goffredo Plastino ( Routledge Publishing, 2002)]

Introduction
Arab popular music from the mid 1990s onward strikingly displays the influence of Spanish and Latin music styles: the Spanish tinge. While these musical fusions are relatively straightforward (if varied) in execution, their meanings are more complex. Mere consideration of the Arabic adjectives associated with Spanish influence - Latini, Andalusi, filimanku (flamenco), gharbi (western), bahrawsati (Mediterranean), 'alami (global) -- as well as the multiple categories into which Spanish-tinged songs are sorted - shababi (youth), hadis (modern), bub (pop) - suggest the dense tangle of meanings which Spanish-tinged Arabic music presents to Arab listeners.1 The present study aims to begin the process of unraveling these meanings, as understood by Egyptians. It is neither my intention to document the Spanish tinge exhaustively, nor to explain it in “objective” historical terms. Rather, my aim is hermeneutic “ethnohistory”2: to interpret how Egyptians themselves interpret the Spanish tinge as a historical trend; how they relate it to their past, explain its salience in the present, and assess what it means for the future. It is the production of historical knowledge, rather than reconstruction of history itself, which is the point of the study: to understand how people organize their own experience of music history. This chapter thus stands in the ethnographic more than the historiographic tradition. It constitutes a “second order” interpretation, the usual epistemological condition for cultural anthropology (Geertz 1973:15), not history.

This task is triply valuable, for: (1) illuminating ongoing cultural processes by which Egyptians construct coherent patterns of historical self-representation, processes which carry additional significance as co-generators of future history; (2) producing subjective evidence, via Egyptians' reflection upon their own lived experiences through history, interpretable as a means of accessing that history; (3) illuminating objective history directly, insofar as Egyptians are (being close to it) well-poised to comprehend it (without denying or forgetting that another kind of more “etic” history, while not performed here, is also crucial).

Despite the theoretical value of (2) and (3), I cautiously do not submit this research as a piece of historical work, but rather as ethnohistorical only. But the new Spanish tinge turned out to be such a rich symbol that in attempting to explain and interpret it, Egyptians automatically revealed more general attitudes about culture and cultural change in contemporary Egypt. Thus in the final analysis, investigation of “the Spanish tinge” is perhaps most useful as a kind of Rorschach test, a catalyst for the articulation of diverse cultural thinking active in Egypt today.

The scope of the Spanish tinge in Arab music today
Ferdinand “Jelly Roll” Morton coined the phrase “Spanish Tinge” to refer to Latin influence in jazz (Williams 1970:28). Yet Spanish influence (broadly conceived to include Latin musics) has been strong worldwide, from the early 20th century onwards, and has lately surged into the mainstream due to new fusions, and the powerful engine of the American music industry. In 1975 a “Best Latin Recording” category was added to the Grammy awards; their “Best World Music album” award (established 1991) has gone to Latin artists in five of the previous 10 years (Grammy awards 2002). Latin megastars with broad appeal, such as Ricky Martin, Carlos Santana, and Shakira, have recently been dominating mainstream pop music charts, while successive albums by the Gipsy Kings (from southern France but drawing on flamenco and Latin traditions (See Gipsy Kings 2002) have ranked high on Billboard's world music chart since its inception in 1990 (Taylor 1997:5,209ff).3 All this has been marketed worldwide as Spanish/Latin culture, but also stands as “American”, “Western”, or “modern” culture (due to centers of production and popularity, mainstream industry status, and fusions: Latin-rock, Latin-pop, Latin-jazz), “global” culture (due to scope, “non-western” origins, and syncretisms), and as a symbol of globalization itself. Within Arab culture, the Spanish tinge also carries particular cultural and historical meanings, via medieval Andalusia, the Mediterranean, Europe, North America, Latin America, each of which is susceptible to multiple interpretations and valences.

Two factors, then, motivate this study. One is the striking rise of Spanish and Latin styles in Arab popular music over the last ten years. The other is the dense layering of its potential meanings within Arab culture, as linked to the broader significances attached to geographical regions, historical periods, and cultural processes. The Spanish tinge in Arab pop presents a rich symbolic lode for anthropological investigation.

The Spanish tinge in Egyptian pop music occurs primarily in the domain of “al-musiqa al-shababiyya” (youth music, already a fusion of older Arab music with western rock and pop). Spanish influence includes instrumental, timbral, melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, textural, and occasionally linguistic resources. Most often, influence is manifested in acoustic guitar styles, both rhythmic and melodic (often an ersatz 'flamenco'); in Latin grooves and percussion; or in distinctive harmonic progressions. Within a song, Spanish influence may appear vertically, in short segments: introductions, instrumental interludes, or fills (lawazim) separating vocal phrases. At the level of album, influence is likewise vertical, since in the typically only one or two (out of 8 - 12) songs contain Spanish influence (though these are often the most popular). Or influence may appear horizontally, as one sonic layer within a shababiyya texture including also Arabic, Western rock/pop, and perhaps other styles as well. Occasionally the Spanish style constitutes the primary matrix for an entire song.

Amr Diab
Amr Diab4 is the most popular music star in Egypt today, and among the three or four most consistently popular singers in the Arab world, from the 1990s to the present. Diab has consistently innovated since his first album in 1986; his great fame and financial success ensures that his artistic decisions reach a vast audience, and spawn many imitators. Since the mid-1990s, Diab's output has increasingly displayed Spanish influence. His broad influence in defining contemporary Arab pop motivated me to place him at the center of my ethnographic inquiry. A brief examination of his life, representing a microcosm of most of the trends to be discussed, is thus apropos.5

Diab was born in 1961, to a middle class family in Port Said. For Egyptians, this city carries considerable symbolic importance for modernity, nationalism, and westernization, and Diab's modern image owes something to his birthplace. Located where the Suez Canal meets the Mediterranean, Port Said was founded in 1859 as the canal's Mediterranean port. Young by Egyptian standards, cosmopolitan, industrialized, Port Said was devastated by three wars (1956, 1967, 1973), but always returned to supply a wide range of goods, local and imported; after 1973 Port Said was declared a free-trade zone to encourage investments (Hamed 1981:3).Inclining towards music at an early age, he received encouragement from his family to pursue a career in music, studying at the music faculty of the Cairo Academy of Art in the mid 1980s. His first album Ya Tariq (1986) soon followed, and was an instant success. Since then he has released sixteen albums, and garnered many awards in recent years for best-selling Arab artist.

Beyond birthplace and talent, Diab's social and generational positions were instrumental in catapulting him to the vanguard of Egyptian pop. His career has coincided with rapidly increasing media sophistication of Arab pop styles; Diab was the first Egyptian singer to make extensive use of the fidiyuklib (“videoclip”, or music video), starting around 1990, and video broadcasts (especially to Arab communities abroad) have contributed greatly to his fame. His adoption of new western fashions in clothes and hairstyle contributes to his au courant image, setting standards for millions of Egyptian youth, as well as establishing him as source (hence symbol) of Western cool. His budding film career has further disseminated his image and music.

Gradually his career has become more international. Besides touring abroad, his use of foreign musical styles has garnered international acclaim, and his fan base has increasingly extended outside the Arab world; this fact in turn reflects and necessitates continued deployment of those styles. Indeed, the most striking feature of his 1990s output is the increasing diversification of music styles, especially Spanish and Latin. Some Arabs began to refer to his as the “Mediterranean sound”. His internationally acclaimed “Nur al-'Ayn” (1996), became popular in European discos, often remixed with dance grooves. Subsequently, Diab received a World Music Award (Monaco, 1998) for best global sales (in the newly established Middle Eastern category), alongside Mariah Carey, Puff Daddy, and the Backstreet Boys; the program (hosted by Gloria Estafan among others) was broadcast to 130 countries worldwide (though non-Western musics were evidently omitted in the American version) (Dezzani 1998). Diab reportedly stated that he considers this award as a first step towards popularizing Egyptian music internationally (Egypt guide 2002). At the ceremony his performance of the title track, cast in a flamenco/Gipsy Kings mold, was broadcast to an international audience. Subsequently his music, often remixed in various grooves, became popular in European discos. All this enhanced his image at home, too, even among those who do not ordinarily listen to (or even approve of) his music, for Diab's international recognition (as for Egyptian Nobel laureates Naguib Mahfuz (1988) and Ahmed H. Zewail (1999), whose works most Egyptians do not read) constitutes an important source of cultural pride and confirmation.

Though Spanish influence is most salient, Diab has experimented with other musical hybrids as well, including Turkish, North African, Greek, electronica, and hip-hop sounds. On his 1999 album Qamarayn he collaborated with Khaled, the star of French-Algerian Rai, and the Greek pop diva Angela Dimitriou (also famous in Turkey). “Wala 'ala baluh” (from Aktar Wahid, 2001) features a mix of classical Arab melody with techno and rap. A complex of features--Spanish, Arab, Western, Mediterranean, global--is thus evident in his life history and work.

The Spanish tinge: Amr Diab, Egypt, and beyond
What is the evidence for the Spanish tinge in Egypt? As principal trendsetter, a review of Diab's 1990s ouput (also foregrounded in my ethnographic investigation) is instructive; a few other examples can be mentioned to show that Diab is by no means alone. “Leeli” (from the album Shawa'na, 1990) imitates “Lambada”. “Eeh bass illi ramaak” (Habibi, 1992) opens with Spanish-style acoustic guitar, which returns for fills. On Ayamna (1993), “Hawak hayyarni” begins with conga sounds, and “Taba' el Hayah” features a Latin groove, plus Spanish guitar and Brazilian pop harmonies. However it is on Wi yilumuni (1995) that flamenco sounds appear in force, in “Ahlif bi il-layali” and “Wi yilumuni”. Ragi'in (1996) features a Latin groove on “Balash tikallimha”. The title track on Nur al-'Ayn (1996) presents the clearest example yet of a Spanish-flamenco groove, instrumentation, and harmonic progression, displacing the usual Arab pop matrix. 'Awwiduni (1998) features a Latin/flamenco groove and progression on “Kull il-kalam” and “Wi ghalawtik”, while “Milk Ideek” highlights Spanish guitar filigree. On Amareen (1999) the Latin/flamenco sound appears in the title track. Tamalli Ma'ak (2000) contains the Latin-based “Albi ikhtarak” (often compared to Santana's 1999 “Smooth”), and four songs infused with flamenco styles: “il-'Alam Allah”, “Sinin”, “Wi hiyya 'amla eeh”, and “Tamalli ma'ak”. Finally his latest album (Aktar Wahid, 2001) contains no fewer than seven (out of ten) songs displaying deep Latin or flamenco influences, including the title track; by now one feels that for Diab the Spanish tinge has moved beyond color (loon) or novelty, to become incorporated in his musical language and identity.

However the Spanish Tinge runs broader than Diab alone. Indeed, in the late 1990s most of Egypt's most popular contemporary singers deploy the Spanish Tinge at least occasionally: Angham in “Habbeetak leeh” (Latin); Hakim in the introduction to his “Isma' ya illi” (2000); Hisham 'Abbas in “Sami' albi” (2000) and “Inti il-wahida” (1999), among many; Ihab Tawfiq in “La khatar”, “Mushta'”, and “Amar il-layali” (1999). Mustafa Qamar deploys a rich Spanish texture in “'Ayshin” (2000) (including a flamenco singer) and “'Ayneek wahshani” (1999), and a Latin groove in “Tal il-leel” (1997). In 1997 Qatar's MusicBox International marketed a very popular cassette entitled Arabica Latina, featuring Spanish Gipsy/Flamenco and Latin music with Spanish and Arabic words, through a production company in Cairo. The Gipsy Kings themselves have concertized in Egypt since the mid 1980s; today they are well known, performing on television and for weddings.

Furthermore, the Spanish tinge in Arabic music affects more than Egypt. Latin influences are hot in Lebanon, as evidenced by productions of top stars such as Nawal al-Zughbi (particularly in “Tul Umri”, 2001), or Julia Boutros (Bisaraha, 2001), or Raghib Allama, and many others. From Iraq, Ilham al-Madfa'i (e.g. Ilham Al Madfai, 1999) deploys Latin-flamenco textures. Within the wider sphere of Arab-Spanish fusions, Egypt represents an important case study, in view of the continued centrality of the Egyptian music industry to the Arab world as a whole.

Historical sources for musical ethnohistory
What is the source of this Spanish tinge in 1990s Egyptian pop? The trajectories of musical culture are never easy to locate, not only because of the mass of musical data to be examined, or the difficulty in reconstructing the musical past, but because of the difficulty in assessing which phenomena are to be connected as historically continuous. But in this section I do not aim to analyze the objective sources of the contemporary Spanish tinge in Egyptian pop, much less to trace a continuous history from those origins to present. Rather I want to illuminate three historical periods which figure heavily in Egyptian interpretations of their own musical history.

Andalusia as historical past, and contemporary symbol
From North Africa, Muslim armies loyal to the Umayyad dynasty of Damascus took the Iberian Peninsula in 711-13, defeating the weak Spanish Visigoth Kingdom, and establishing the Muslim Iberian domain of al-Andalus. After the Umayyads fell to the Abbasids in 750, 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Mu'awiya (one of the former) escaped to al-Andalus where he managed to unify a fractious polity, and establish the Umayyad Marwanid dynasty of Cordoba (756-912). Various Muslim dynasties followed, most notably the Berber Almoravids (1056-1147) and Almohades (1130-1296). Following centuries of conflict with forces of the Spanish Reconquista, the last Muslim kingdom (Granada) fell in 1492. By this time most Muslims and Jews had emigrated to North Africa; those who remained converted to Christianity (Moriscos) but were expelled (mainly to North Africa) from 1609 to 1614. (Levi-Provencal 1999b; Levi-Provencal 1999a; Wiegers 1999; Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:130)

The brilliant flowering of Arabo-Islamic Andalusian culture was catalyzed by rulers, who patronized the arts and learning, and funded such architectural marvels as the Alhambra. In the late 10th century, al-Hakam II founded a great library at Cordoba containing 400,000 volumes, facilitating high achievements in philosophy, astronomy, mathematics, medicine, art and architecture, literature, and music (Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:131-132). Abu al-Hasan 'Ali ibn Nafi', better known as Ziryab, was a student of Ishaq al-Mawsili, court musician to Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid (r. 786-809). Ziryab captured Harun's fancy, thereby arousing al-Mawsili's jealousy; the latter forced him to flee. Thus did Ziryab arrive at the Andalusian court of 'Abd al-Rahman II (r. 822-852), where he soon eclipsed all other musicians of al-Andalus, developing new musical forms, and establishing an influential Music School at Cordoba (Farmer 1973:/128-130; Touma 1996:11,68-69). Andalusian culture developed two popular new poetic forms, thus breaking the dominance the qasida had formerly enjoyed: (1) the classical muwashshah; (2) the colloquial zajal. Their stanzaic forms rendered these more suitable for music than the qasida's distiches (Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:135), and they continue to be used throughout the contemporary Arab world (al-Faruqi 1975).

The cultural efflorescence of Andalusia, situated at the interface between Islamic and Christian worlds, directly influenced the latter. Works by Andalusian scholars (such as philosopher Ibn Rushd, aka Averroës, d. 1198) were translated to Latin, and distributed throughout Christian Europe (Lapidus 1988:383-384). There is also much evidence for musical influence; thus the European lute stems morphologically and etymologically from the Arabic one (al-'ud); 'guitar' comes from Arabic 'qitar', and Arab song appears to have influenced songs of medieval Europen minstrelsie (Farmer 1970:4; Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:135). Though its extent has been debated, the putative facticity of this influence is key to constructions of musical history among contemporary Arabs.

In North Africa, the classical forms of al-musiqa al-andalusiyya (nawba or ala in Morocco, san'a in Algiers, and ma'luf in Tunis) are valorized (by dominant ideology) as the very musical forms of Andalusian courts (and transferred by emigrants), whose contemporary stylistic differences result only from synchronic differences among various Andalusian court traditions (such as Seville, Cordoba, and Granada) (Touma 1996:70). Though this myth is sustained by anonymous ascription of musical pieces, and the symbolic value of Andalusia, musical and historical analysis suggests that Andalusian repertoires in different parts of North Africa developed quasi-independently, due to vagaries of oral tradition and contrasting regional histories. (Davis 1996a:423-4; Davis 1996b:316).

Likewise, Egyptians and Levantines associate the muwashshah (qua musical genre) with Andalusia (“al-muwashshah al-andalusiyya”), though evidence suggesting a continuous musical linkage to Andalusia is even weaker than for North African music, and there is plenty of evidence suggesting discontinuities, including differences in poetic meter, and innovations by well-known composers of Syria and Egypt in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such as the Syrian 'Umar Batsh (1885-1950), and the Egyptian Sayyid Darwish (1892-1923) (Touma 1996:83-84).

Five widely-cited attributes render Andalusia a potent and affective symbol in the modern Egyptian imagination: (1) Muslim military victories over Christian Europe; (2) enlightened rulers; state patronage of arts and sciences; tolerance of religious diversity; and intellectual freedom; (3) consequently: the flowering of scholarly and artistic achievements; (4) the influence of Andalusian culture in kindling the European renaissance; (5) the romantic (almost Edenic) tragedy of loss and exile, a metaphor for all lost “golden ages” and utopias.

These features combine to project Andalusia as asserting the greatness of the Arabs, inverting the contemporary power relations between the Arabs and the west, constituting proof that Western modernity is indebted to the Arabs, and suggesting that greatness is again possible. At the same time, Andalusia invokes powerful feelings of nostalgia.

While Andalusia has served as a potent literary symbol for centuries (Aboul-Ela 1999), it loomed particularly large in the ideological period of Arab nationalisms, from the 1950s onward. Andalusia resonates at many levels in literature of this period. Poems alluded to Andalusia as a symbol of lost beauty and hope (e.g. Nizar Qabbani, who saw “…in the fading glories of Alhambra the possibilities for a rebirth of the Islamic nation and Arab aesthetics” (Woffenden and Mitwalli 1998)), or exile (in poetry of Mahmoud Darwish); Yusuf Chahine's 1998 film al-Masir uses the decline of Andalusia as a means to critique contemporary Egyptian anti-liberalism.

“Egypt's liberal experiment,1922-1936” and the Spanish tinge
In the 19th c, urban Egyptian musical life centered upon varied folk and religious genres, and the more musically elaborate entertainments of popular singers with takht (Arab chamber ensemble) and choral accompaniment, incorporating much Ottoman influence. The latter, epitomized by stars such as 'Abdu al-Hamuli, Muhammad 'Uthman, and Yusuf Manyalawi, and patronized by elites, was associated with the ineffable aesthetic quality called tarab, “musical ecstasy” (Racy 1985). Performatively, the tarab style features impeccable intonation, proper treatment of the melodic modes (maqamat), improvisation and variation, unison or heterophonic textures, stately tempos, slow solo expressive singing, concentrated listening, and emotional feedback from audience to performer (See Racy 1991).

Alongside such “traditional” music were musical styles introduced from western Europe following the Napoleonic campaign of 1798, and supported by the determination of Muhammad 'Ali (r. 1805-1848) and his descendents to modernize the country along European lines. The late 19th century saw the first stirrings of Egyptian nationalism (Vatikiotis 1969:136ff; Holt 1966:211ff). Paradoxically, though turned against British oppression, such stirrings were inspired by European enlightenment ideals. Culturally, politically, and technically Europe presented the highest model for many educated Egyptians, the very definition and source of modernity. (See Hourani 1983) Broad admiration for European culture produced many attempts to emulate it. In music, these included European-style military bands, Italian opera, French-inspired theater, and Western instruments (especially violin, piano, and accordion) (Racy 1985).

The pace of change accelerated rapidly in the early 20th century, with a larger, more educated populace; urbanization; development of technical infrastructure (Hourani 1991:333ff); and the corresponding rise of commercial media mass-markets, especially phonograms (from 1904), radio (from the 1920s), and musical film (1930s) (Racy 1978; Castelo-Branco 1987:32-35). Pressured by change, the elaborate 19th c musical genres swiftly declined in the 1920s (Racy 1988:139). Flexible musical forms, improvisation, and small chamber ensembles gave way to more fixed arrangements, and larger orchestras. But the core aesthetic of tarab continued to dominate urban Egyptian music until the 1970s as what Racy calls the “neutral canvas” upon which all innovations were painted as “colors” (alwan) in the central domain of music in Cairo (Racy 1982:391-397).

Forces of nationalism sprang forth violently as the Revolution of 1919 (Sayyid-Marsot 1977:4), and Britain bestowed a nominal independence in 1922; thereafter the khedive became king, and a multiparty constitutional parliamentary democracy was installed featuring some measure of liberal political values until 1952 (but especially before 1936, when the Anglo-Egyptian treaty was signed) (Sayyid-Marsot 1977). The privileged status of Europeans, the presence of large Mediterranean expatriate community, and French-speaking Egyptian elites ensured a cosmopolitan diversity and openness to foreign influences, at least in Alexandria and Cairo. Political, social, and economic modernization proceeded rapidly to “push Egypt squarely into the modern age” (Sayyid-Marsot 1977:6). Political liberalization, combined with continued de facto British control, European economic dominance, a broad Egyptian acknowledgement of European cultural superiority, and the commercial forces of new entertainment media and industries, all encouraged incorporation of European musical styles into Arab music. But foreign influence was more free-wheeling prior to the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, after which foreigners were forced out, and Egyptian nationalism turned from European enlightenment ideals to the more rigid hegemonic forms of a military regime, including a purposive “cultural policy” (el-Shawan 1979:113-115).

Composer and singer Muhammad 'Abd al-Wahhab (1897?-1991), whose artistic personality crystallized in the atmosphere of early nationalism, modernization, the monarchy, and Europe (including travels under the tutelage of his poet-mentor Ahmad Shawqi (Danielson 1997:171; Armbrust 1996:72)), was a famous exponent of European modernism within an “eastern” matrix (Armbrust 1996:63-93). He once stated that “…most of our traditions now follow western lines, which has taken control of our life and the form of our social and artistic activities. There is no harm in this. Foreign influence, adapting to the world renaissance, is necessary for evolution. We must bring western instruments into Eastern music…and new melodies…but also hold to our eastern spirit.” But music, he said, should be a true eastern creation, even if it appears in western garb (al-Hifni 1999:54-55).

John Storm Roberts' The Latin Tinge recounts the spread of Latin musics to North America (where new fusions and hybrids emerged) and around the globe. The motive force was the unique relation between US market power, media, capital, and attraction for “exotic” musical forms just south of the border. Fads were triggered through commercial entertainment mass media. Thus a craze for Argentine tango (deriving from Spanish gypsy music via Cuba) swept the US following the success of a 1913 musical show, The Sunshine Girl, featuring dancers Vernon and Irene Castle (Roberts 1979:15,44). Interest in Latin music affected Tin Pan Alley songs in the 1920s, which were disseminated widely (Roberts 1979:50). In 1931 Don Azpiazu's hit “The Peanut Vendor” ushered in a new craze for the (Americanized) Cuban rumba (Roberts 1979:76). In the 1940s Latin musicians received more publicity; new forms such as mambo and Latin jazz emerged (Roberts 1979:100). Primarily driven by the engine of the American music industry, the popularity of Latin music soon became international (Roberts 1979:212ff).

Despite stylistic differences between tarab and Latin musics (especially the latter's use of functional harmony), early 20th c Egypt was remarkably susceptible to this trend. 'Abd al-Wahhab frequently deployed Spanish influences in the 1930s, when the Latin Tinge was so potent in Europe and North America: Spanish castanets in “Fi il-leel lamma khala”; Argentine tango in “Marreet 'ala beet il-habayib”, and “Sahrat minnu al-layali” (al-Hifni 1999:53). In the 1950s he composed “Ahibbak wa inta fakirni” (harmonized tango); and a rumba groove in “Khi khi”. Such songs were extremely popular. Yet, true to his words, 'Abd al-Wahhab's music is founded on an “eastern” tarab base, the “neutral canvas” upon which various colors, from Latin to Beethoven to tango, are layered, often obscuring but never permanently negating the tarab aesthetic (Racy 1982).

But while introduction of tango and other musical material was certainly innovative, the Western identity (as they were often heard) of such “borrowings” could also be ideologically critiqued, even as their meanings are subject to debate among Egyptians today. Along with many Arabs, 'Abd al-Wahhab believed that the West is indebted to the East. No doubt reacting to criticism, he stated that his western borrowings are “…nothing more than the Oriental art of our ancestors, which had originally made its way into the western consciousness…being returned to us” (Okasha 2000). Here is a prefiguring of the Andalusian argument, elaborated below, which continues to strongly color Arab borrowings of Spanish and Latin musics today.

Similarly, Farid al-Atrash (1910?-1974), a Syrian Druze who lived most of his life in Cairo, innovated on the tarab tradition, without abandoning it. Farid was especially famous for his brilliant solo 'ud improvisations (taqasim); a style featuring flamenco melodies, harmonies, and rhythmic techniques was widely esteemed and imitated (Zuhur 2001:271). Like 'Abd al-Wahhab, Farid used Latin music in a number of precomposed songs, including orchestrated tangos such as “Ya zahra fi khayyal” (replete with Latin harmonizations and accordion, from his 1947 film, Habib al-'Umr), and “Ana wa illi bahibbu” (from his 1950 film, Akhir kidba).

The lag between the western tango craze of the 1920s, and its appearance in Egyptian songs from the 1930s-50s, foreshadows a pattern, and contemporary criticism of Egyptian musical borrowings: that they constitute delayed reactions to world trends, inferior imitations, rather than innovations, indicative of cultural dependency and lack of self-confidence.

Despite the various overlays, the tarab style continued to flourish into the 1970s. But by then new changes were underway.

The roots of the contemporary pop explosion: 1970s to early 1980s
Following the Egyptian revolution of 1952, the development of Arab socialist nationalism by a popular and charismatic president helped restore Egyptian self-esteem. For the first time since antiquity Egypt was boldly independent, a self-directed leader among the new Arab nations. The state strictly controlled the national economy; large businesses were nationalized, and most foreigners left. 'Abd al-Nasir's ideology, while it certainly did not preclude foreign cultural influence, discouraged imports, and encouraged artistic self-confidence, self-sufficiency, and export. Already geographically and demographically central to the Arab world, under his leadership Egypt became the ideological, political, and cultural center as well. Governmental support and monopolization of the media (radio, TV, film, and phonograms), and special attention to particular singers, such as Umm Kulthum and 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz, established Egypt's musical influence throughout the Arab world (Hourani 1991:340, 393); Umm Kulthum's musical dominance is nearly a metaphor of state control: the Voice of Egypt (Danielson 1997). But by the mid 1960s, the system was faltering. Nasserism, as it came to be called, became inefficient and corrupt, and dreams of modern development, justice, and power were continually deferred (Aulas 1982:7). Some of the hypocrisies of the system were revealed by Egypt's defeat in the 1967 war with Israel, and with the death of 'Abd al-Nasir in 1970 his eponymous ideology was fatally shaken too.

After the 1973 war, Nasir's successor Anwar Sadat took a new tack with his “open door” policy (infitah), laissez-faire economics opening the economy to foreign investment and imports, and establishing free trade zones in Port Said and elsewhere, in the hopes of attracting foreign capital so that Egypt could follow in the footsteps of model nations such as Brazil (the Latin American model) and South Korea (Aulas 1982:7-8). Culturally the infitah was a move towards the West, and away from the Soviets with whom Nasir had been close.

But the result was economic chaos and social upheaval, as Egypt's statist economy was rapidly integrated into the world market (Aulas 1982:8). New economic opportunities (legal and illegal) beckoned from every direction (including commercial music ventures), and a nouveau riche of entrepreneurs emerged with new musical tastes. Those tastes would become increasingly important as the private sector music industry developed its sophistication to target lucrative markets. But inflation was rampant, while government wages were nearly fixed. Many rural areas were impoverished, and the cities swelled with rural immigrants, providing ever-greater markets for the new entrepreneurs. A rift between rich and poor opened. At the same time, the developing Gulf states were becoming rich with oil, and needed labor (Aulas 1982:14-15). During the 1970s and 80s, Egyptians worked abroad, sending home remittances and returning with new gadgets, now also available in Egypt's newly expanded import market. Most relevant to the current discussion was the widespread purchase of tape players, and television sets, which hastened musical commodification, and broadened markets. Though the infitah failed to attract much foreign capital, it did expand the internal market for imports (Aulas 1982:11,15). That market demanded capital equipment and media to fuel the cassette music revolution. Cassette blanks, recorders, and duplication equipment, cheaper than their phonodisc predecessors, became available. Musicians could more easily import musical equipment, such as amplifiers and foreign-made instruments.

Suddenly it was more feasible for small businesses to produce recordings in private studios. The government could not easily regulate production, and the new culture of infitah was well disposed to entrepreneurial ventures. Decentralized production meant development of many more market niches: rather than a dominant 'central domain' (Racy 1982:391-392), multiple competing domains emerged, reflecting the newly competitive private sector (Castelo-Branco 1987).

But the infitah was also a cultural reorientation towards the West. Under Nasir, Egyptian radio broadcast a daily program of western music called “al-Shari' al-Gharbi” (the Western Street). The Sadat years greatly increased direct Western media exposure. Two popular television programs, “Ikhtarna lak” (we chose for you) and “al-'Alam yughanni” (the world sings) brought western programming to all Egyptians with access to TV (and the percentage was rapidly increasing), including the West's culture of musical style, performance, and reception. Spanish flamenco, and Julio Iglesias, were popular on these programs. Cassettes of western popular stars, original or bootleg copies, became widely available.

The import of Western tastes and cultural products dovetailed with the import of Western modes of production and economic organization. Western popular music became more available, and more desirable. The largest market was the young generation, maturing under infitah, for whom the old tarab style was too heavy and old-fashioned. They longed for something new: shorter, faster songs, with more Western content.

Cultural influence was not only from the West, however. The rise of petro-dollars, combined with an increasing migrant worker population, increased influence from the east. Singers began to direct songs to rich Gulf (khaligi) Arabs summering in Cairo, or via media. Egyptian workers returned with a taste for khaligi musical styles. Islamism, inspired by Saudi and local preachers (and supported by Sadat for political ends), expanded rapidly in the 1980s, spearheading a new feeling of anti-Westernism.

Singers such as Warda, Nagat, and Hani Shakir continued the tarab tradition, as represented by Umm Kulthum, Farid al-Atrash, and 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz (though significantly all three passed away in the mid 1970s, and 'Abd al-Wahhab was no longer very active). Each of the younger tarab generation strove to be the khalifa (successor) of the predecessors, though none succeeded in revitalizing the tarab tradition. Correspondingly, the tarab style, until then the primary matrix for urban music, began to lose its status as the 'neutral canvas' of a 'central domain'. 6 Instead two new (not entirely separable) types arose, rejecting that canvas: musiqa sha'biyya, and musiqa shababiyya. Both inhibited tarab via short fast songs, simple melodies, and a dance-like ethos. (See also Danielson 1996:301)

Musiqa sha'biyya (“popular” music) is based in rural song, combined with urban lower class dance music, and some western instrumentation (including synthesizers). This style is the musical response to rapid ruralization of the cities: lowbrow, appealing to inhabitants of popular districts. Performers such as Ahmad 'Adawiyya, Hasan al-Asmar, and 'Abdu al-Iskandarani updated older traditions of mawwal and zagal (genres of folk song), and risque wedding songs, by modernizing the instrumentation and addressing urban life without losing a folk feel, full of improvisation and flexible interaction. Suggestive lyrics earned this material the moniker “aghani habta” (low songs) (Armbrust 1996:180-190; Danielson 1996:307).

Musiqa shababiyya (youth music) fused western popular music styles and instruments with Arab characteristics. This new “bub” (pop) music (sometimes mislabeled “jil” in the West (Werner 2000), a term Egyptians generally do not use) retains Arabic language, lyrical meanings, and elements of the tarab vocal style, thus addressing local aesthetic preferences. Arab percussion is typically retained as well. As one of my respondents put it, despite evident Westernization, there is a “Eastern spirit” in this music. But this spirit blends with the grooves of western popular musics (rock, jazz, funk, or disco), featuring trapset, keyboards, bass, and guitar, and often employs melodic and functional harmony as well. Composers and arrangers are central; performances are often multitracked; there is consequently less room for vocal interpretation or interactions. Unlike the tarab tradition, the music's social identity sometimes centers on the band rather than the singer. Shababi music is directed at educated middle-upper classes who appreciate western styles, though it can be popular at many levels.

Out of these swirls of mixing cultures, several key musicians, bands, and styles emerged in shababi music. Hani Shanuda popularized the org (Arabic synthesizer)7; the first generation of Arab-Western bands included the Blackcoats, and the Petit Chats (with Hani Shanuda on keyboard) in the early 1970s In 1977, Hani Shanuda's band, al-Masriyyin, became famous, paving the way for many of today's shababi stars (Ghazaleh 2001; Armbrust 1996:186); Another popular 1970s group was the Jets, blending western rock with Arabic lyrics and sensibilities.

Samir al-Iskandarani combined harmonic disco grooves with Arabic percussion and classical muwashshahat in his 1978 album Layali Disco. Around the same time, Muhammad Nuh combined disco with popular Sufi music. Muhammad Munir's upbeat blends of Nubian, Egyptian, and western popular music were very popular, though media recognition was slow. Working with Hani Shanuda, he startled Egypt in the late 1970s with Binitwilid, featuring rock guitar, keyboards, trapset and harmony on an Arab groove, with a non-traditional philosophical text by 'Abd al-Rahim Mansur. Jazzy and inimitable, Munir was one of the first Egyptian singers blending Arab and European styles to achieve popular acclaim in Europe (he recorded with German rock bands Embryo and Logic Animal (Swedenburg 1997:95; Gehr 1997:33)).

Their post-colonial relationships made popular music cultural connections to Europe much stronger in North Africa than in Egypt. Two Libyans were central in the development of modern Egyptian pop. One is Nasir al-Mizdawi, whose songs feature Arabic lyrics and vocal style on a sophisticated pop-jazz base. al-Mizdawi's first tape became extremely popular in Egypt in the mid 1970s, influencing Egyptian musicians. The other is Hamid al-Sha'iri, who came to Egypt in the 1970s. Building upon al-Mizdawi's name and Libyan-European aesthetics, al-Sha'iri popularized the fast upbeat song in the mid 1980s.

Many of the innovators of shababi music continue to be active, though the field is much more densely populated today. al-Mizdawi has continued to influence Egyptian musicians, having composed many songs for Egyptian pop stars, including Amr Diab's most well-known song, “Nur al-'ayn” (1996). Muhammad Munir and Hamid al-Sha'iri remain among Egypt's top singers. Besides producing his own material, al-Sha'iri composes and arranges for many other singers; including arrangements for many of Amr Diab's recent albums. Hani Shanuda composed four songs on Amr Diab's first cassette (Ya Tariq, 1985), and arranged all of them; he continues to compose and arrange for others.

In both new styles, the vocalist is a pop culture star (nigm), though not a mutrib (producer of tarab) in the strict sense. Since the broadcast media were still controlled by the state, these new types were at first largely excluded from TV and radio, and developed via the new cassette industry--especially sha'bi (Armbrust 1996:184).

The 1970s witnessed a renewal in North American Latin music. In New York a developing hot, creative style, primarily combining jazz and Cuban influences, diffused under a new label: salsa. Latin rock emerged in the early 1970s. (Roberts 1979:186-191) These trends were to color Egyptian shababi music, or even transform it entirely.

Ethnohistory: Egyptians' interpretations of the Spanish tinge
I asked a variety of thoughtful Egyptians, living in Egypt, in Europe, and in Canada, to interpret and explain the recent profusion of Spanish and Latin sounds in Arab pop (shababi) music. Why Spanish, and why now? Discussions took place in person, by telephone, by e-mail, on listservs, and Internet bulletin boards. I used the career of Amr Diab as my central example, though discussions ranged widely.

Responses are categorized below, according to the kind of arguments used. Sorting responses was not an easy task, and required considerable interpretive activity on my part. For one thing, respondents didn't always fill in the logical chain and implications of their arguments; in what follows I have attempted to elaborate each argument while remaining true to what I perceive as its spirit. Secondly, responses frequently touched on a number of logically distinct positions, which I attempted to disentangle. Third, the various enumerated arguments are often interdependent, exhibiting a network structure that I attempted (with difficulty) to linearize. My occasional comments are relegated to footnotes.

Music, history, and culture
Andalusian argument
Most respondents pointed to Andalusia as a key factor in the selection of Spanish (and Latin) music, indicating the enduring power of al-Andalus in the contemporary Egyptian imagination. Andalusian arguments for the contemporary Spanish tinge took two forms: (1) symbolic value, and (2) genealogical compatibility. Both are predicated on the notion that at root the Spanish tinge is connected to Arab culture.

Spanish (and by extension Latin) music is a symbol that invokes Andalusia, not merely due to its origins on Andalusian territory, but due to perceptions of a distant Andalusian source as well. Spanish and Latin musics are at least indebted to (or even represent the diffusion of) Arab culture. Egyptians hear flamenco, Spanish music generally, and Latin music by extension, as all pointing to the nostalgic glory of al-Andalus. They hear the 'ud in the guitar; flamenco's “ole” as a corruption of “Allah”. The sounding of Andalusian symbols makes them all the more affective; as one respondent commented, “when you hear Spanish music you feel that you contributed to its construction”. The Spanish tinge carries the positive value of Andalusia; reasserts the fact of Europe's debt to the Arabs; retrieves what was originally Arab (as 'Abd al-Wahhab emphasized); hence does not incur cultural indebtedness. All three factors are particularly important today, when many Arabs are feeling a sense of cultural despair.

Secondly, there is the argument of compatibility based on a shared genealogy. If Spanish and Arab musics flow from a common source, then it is only natural that they should produce a consonant mix. Arab constructions of music history (signaled by terms such as “muwashshahat andalusiyya” and “musiqa andalusiyya”) provide evidence of continuity, suggesting that other branches of the Andalusian genealogy should likewise be compatible. Emotionally, Arabs naturally respond to Spanish music. More generally, many Egyptians view Spanish and Arab culture as highly congruent, as if there is a distant shared bloodline extending back to Andalusia.8

Continuity of Western influence argument
The Spanish tinge of the 1990s should be identified as a continuous extension to the use of Spanish musics earlier this century, but now within the context of shababi songs. This in turn is an instance of a more general propensity for Western styles in Egyptian music, e.g. the 1960s Franco-Arab fad (including such hits as “Mustafa ya Mustafa”, sung in Arabic and French). Such electicism is long-standing, a product of Egypt's openness, reflecting a particular colonial history. Though strongly shaped by France and Britain, Egypt was never a formal colony of either (even among colonies, British indirect rule reduced cultural dominance). Large non-Egyptian populations (Greek, Armenian, Jewish, Italian) in Cairo and Alexandria ensured cultural diversity in centers of cultural production. Consequently, and most unlike North Africa, Egypt culture was open to a wide range of Western cultures, producing foreign musical influence. Even if the sound of the contemporary Spanish tinge is new, its acceptability is linked to earlier popularity of the same styles. The adoption of Spanish music also followed naturally from the adoption of the guitar as a Western instrument in the 1970s. At first used to introduce jazz and rock styles, Egyptians associated the acoustic guitar with flamenco and Latin musics, facilitating entry of those musics. At the same time, from the 1970s onwards Spanish music (with the growth of salsa, Latin rock, and Latin pop) was increasingly important in mainstream Western popular music. Egyptian musicians following Western trends thus introduced Spanish styles.

Modern Latin American argument
Since 1952, Latin America has carried a special significance to Egypt, more so than any other region of the developing world. At first there was a sense that Latin America was structurally and culturally parallel to the Arab world, comprising poor third world countries (though not the poorest of the poor), manipulated by foreign imperialists. The struggles with poverty, against dictators, to achieve freedom, justice, democracy, and economic growth, were shared. Latin American liberation figures, such as Simon Bolivar, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara (who met with Nasir) were cultural heroes to a segment of Egypt's revolutionary elites. Later, when Latin American countries achieved some measure of democracy and economic prosperity, Arabs wondered why, given their parallel conditions, they couldn't achieve the same thing. Since the 1970s, Latin American writers such as Marquez and Borges have been extremely influential in Egypt, and admired for their worldwide influence. In music (as in politics) the history of Latin America sets a standard for Egyptians to match: a “third world” music with European connections, which has become popular and influential world-wide, but especially in the West. By incorporating Latin music, Egyptians are identifying with Latin America and aspiring to what it has achieved.

Musical compatibility argument
Without necessarily invoking Andalusian genealogy, respondents frequently pointed to the compatibility of Arab and Spanish musics, as ensuring the Spanish tinge's aesthetic success. The compatibility is timbral (both musics center on similar stringed instruments), rhythmic (Arab cycles such as bamb and malfuf mesh easily with clave), and formal. Unlike traditional Arab music, Spanish music is harmonic and does not quartertones; however since the 1970s Arab music has developed harmony, and gradually reduced the use of quartertones. Furthermore, two Arabic scales lacking quartertones are central to Spanish musics: nahawand (analogous to the Western minor mode), and kurd (analogous to flamenco's Phrygian scale); furthermore, these two modes stir musical emotion quickly, an important quality for short shababi songs (in which there is no time for the longer modal developments and modulations of older tarab music).

Mediterranean argument
For some respondents the presence of Spanish (and by extension Latin) music reflects more general cultural mixing and borrowing around the Mediterranean, including also North African, French, Greek, Italian, Turkish. (For instance, Amr Diab has worked with Algerian, Greek, and Turkish musicians; Greek music of Zorba or Demis Roussos has been popular in Egypt.) Throughout history, Mediterranean peoples mixed and shared, due to proximity, and similar environments. Mediterranean cultures are “hot”, as opposed to the “colder” cultures of northern and eastern Europe. In Egypt, the Mediterranean cities, Alexandria and Port Said (birthplace of Diab), were important sites for cultural interaction, and the locus of much musical innovation. Mediterranean neighbor Libya also played a key role, since Libya maintained close ties to the west (especially Italy) until the 1969 coup, while Egypt was more closed. After 1969, when Qadhafi made conditions difficult, several Western-influenced musicians (including Nasir al-Mizdawi, Hamid al-Sha'iri) emigrated, and become influential in Egypt.

Passing of the stars argument
Umm Kulthum, 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz, and Farid al-Atrash, three of the four greatest vocal stars of Egypt's mid-century tarab tradition, passed away in the mid 1970s. Due to a shifted zeitgeist (see below), and (according to some) a paucity of equivalent vocal talent, younger singers found it impossible to take their places, though many tried. This fact created an aesthetic vacuum, which had to be filled with something new. The introduction of the Spanish tinge was a delayed reaction whose development required another fifteen years, after experiments with rock, disco, jazz and other styles had run their course.

Rupture of history and ahistoricality of the musical sign argument
Egypt is an ancient civilization, which has always borrowed from other cultures, while maintaining continuity through a cultural grasp of its own history. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with advances in education, that grasp strengthened; the golden age occurred in the 1930s and 40s. The military-backed revolution of 1952 crushed this budding enlightenment; the educational system declined because revolutionary leaders were not themselves well educated; history was sacrificed to ideology. Blinded by the present, Egyptians lost their cultural memory, and an unprecedented rupture in historical continuity loomed.

The use of Spanish styles in post-revolutionary Egypt has nothing to do with Andalusia, or with Spanish-inflected music of the interwar period; it is rather an ahistorical musical sign designed to produce aesthetic pleasure for profit. Popularized in the 1990s, videoclip images (extending the power of musical products to dominate the visual as well as auditory field) play an important role in determining an ahistorical musical meaning, by gratifying and capturing more senses, riveting attention on the present. Watching videoclips of Spanish-tinged Arabic music, one sees white palaces, blue sky, clear water, beautiful girls dancing and singing, gorgeous sunsets. These are not signs of Andalusia, but rather ahistorical kitsch, designed to sell. Objectively the Spanish tinge may extend throughout history, but experientially one cannot connect present manifestations to that past.

The Zeitgeist of westernization, globalization, instability arguments
Several respondents postulated that music necessarily reflects cultural ethos, or zeitgeist. As the Egyptian zeitgeist became more Western, Western musical styles became more appropriate for Egyptian cultural expression, and hence are appropriated in the new shababi songs. As Latin music mixed into the Western mainstream (over the past two decades), it naturally appeared (albeit delayed) in Egyptian music as well.

A related argument holds that in the 1990s the Egyptian zeitgeist is becoming not more Western, but more global; or that the concept (if not the content) of the global and globalization is itself central to the Egyptian ethos. Latin/Spanish music's popularity in Egypt results not from its Western, but from its global popularity and meaning. Latin/Spanish music is global; furthermore (due to global spread and internal hybridity) it represents the concept of the global.

A third version holds that Egyptians feel insecure; everything is unstable in Egypt today. Egyptians don't know who they are or even what they want; rapid stylistic change reflects this uncertainty.

Music, politics, ideology
Music, politics, and post-ideology arguments
Several respondents stated or implied that Egyptian culture has been more open to foreign influence (interpreted as modernization) when its politics are more progressive. Two contrasting applications of this principle emerged.

In one interpretation, Egyptian progressiveness is associated with the pre-revolutionary period, particularly 1922-1952, when foreign musical influence was strongest in the music of 'Abd al-Wahhab and others. In this period models of modernity were drawn from European culture, through which came Latin music. During the Nasir years, socialist nationalism and statism caused Egypt to be more isolated. In the 1970s, with the infitah, and the decline of nationalism and Nasserism, Egyptian culture was again open to foreign economic, political, and cultural influence. But now diversity and globalism replaced Europe as a criterion for modernity. Throughout this experimental period a variety of musical influences appeared, to be sifted and sorted over the following decades; certain styles (including Spanish) ultimately emerged as most suitable (for any of the reasons presented earlier).

In a second interpretation, the pre-revolutionary period, as well as the mid 1960s, are viewed as progressive, in contrast to the reactionary 1970s. In the mid 60s, Egyptians were optimistic and confident about their progress towards modernity and global greatness. Though politics were not free, they were forward looking; reactionary Islamism was weak. Despite Nasir's anti-western rhetoric, western fashions were wildly popular. The 1960s thus represented a kind of cultural infitah, an acceptance of Western cultural modernity. Optimism and progressivism were extinguished by the 1967 defeat, and subsequent death of Nasir. The 1970s economic infitah was simultaneously a cultural closing (inghilaq), due to the rise in Gulf (khaligi) cultural influence, and the concomitant rise of reactionary Islamism, which did not decline until the early 1990s, by which time other ideologies were spent as well. The rise of more sophisticated musical fusions between Egyptian and compatible Western styles (including the Spanish) became more possible in the post-ideological 1990s.

Ideological uniqueness argument
Ideologically, Latin America is uniquely empowered as being both “Third world” and Western, among all musics of the world. Even today, Egyptians view Western culture as superior, yet they also seek symbols of resistance to Western dominance. Egyptian music producers want to fuse Arab music with a music fulfilling ideological criteria of “Western”, but also “global” and “Third World”, opposing the hegemony of Anglo-American pop. Latin music, associated with Spain (hence Europe), popular in the West, global in diffusion and internal syncretism, nicely fits the bill. Egyptians regard African music, for instance, as too “Third World”. (An additional advantage is the fact that Spain was not, for Egypt, a colonial oppressor.)

Ideological failures argument
Arab ideologies of unity and progress have failed. Leadership is poor; hypocrisy is everywhere. There is no democracy or political freedom; Palestine is still oppressed; there is economic distress and imbalance everywhere. The brutal 1991 US-led Gulf war against Iraq, and an increasingly hard-line Israeli regime unconditionally supported by the US, induced a turn away from American culture. Instead, the musical themes of Andalusia (ancient golden age) and Latin America (contemporary model) have come to the fore.

The maturation of the music industry
The rise of the commercial music industry argument
With the decline in historical memory after 1952, Egyptian music began to be freed from its own past. The infitah of the 1970s, in both its technological and free-market economic dimensions, provided the critical push towards a totally commercialized market-driven music industry. The motive force is profit, and the shape of the market. Market forces, in the absence of historical memory, necessarily produced radical change. Egyptian music is no longer truly Egyptian. Music is created to please foreign tastes of non-Egyptians (especially Gulf Arabs), or Egyptians alienated from their history. Poorer Egyptians maintained historical continuity, but with little financial clout they weakly influenced the market-driven system of music production. The age of unconstrained commercial music started in the 1970s, but marketing matured in the 1990s; during this period the market became less encumbered by ideological constraints. With the significant advent of the videoclip (popularized in the 1990s), musical meaning expanded to the visual sphere, to be more cunningly manipulated for a market seeking pleasure, not historical continuity. Since videoclips are intensively watched on ordinary Egyptian TV, as well as by Arab audiences living abroad, this mode of musical meaning increasingly determines musical contents.

Egypt today is increasingly globalization, full of economic and cultural linkages to the outside world, particularly the West. Because of these interconnections, any outside commercial cultural trends will quickly penetrate Egyptian markets as well, though a short delay is to be expected.

Because Spanish music is globally popular, a Spanish tinge in Arab music appeared: to sell to an international market, to sell to a local Egyptian market that has adopted foreign tastes, and to appear more international in the local market.

Maturation in musical tastes argument
A more sanguine view holds that the contemporary popularity of the Spanish tinge represents a delayed cultural selection from the infinite variety and confusion of the infitah era, when everything suddenly became possible. In the initial flush of enthusiasm, Egyptians saturated themselves with foreign cultural influences. Over the following twenty years, they gradually sifted through these influences, and selected Spanish musics as most compatible with their own.

Local marketing argument
Particularly in post-Nasserist Egypt, Egyptian audiences want to feel importantly connected to global history, as a means of reestablishing cultural self-confidence and a sense of their own relevance to the wider world. Therefore they value global musical trends outside Egypt; they value western culture (which largely controls those trends); they value that which signifies the concept of the global; and they value Egyptians who attain international stature. By blending Arab and Latin/Spanish, Egyptian music producers not only tap into an existing Egyptian fascination with Latin/Spanish music itself, but also with the very concepts of “western trend”, “global trend”, and “global fusion” which that music signifies; “global fusion” is further symbolized by the Arab/Spanish mix itself. But one respondent reports that in Egyptian villages listeners don't recognize Spanish sounds at all, identifying such music only as “western”. In this case, the value of the Spanish tinge may depend on the foreign marketing argument.

Foreign marketing argument
By incorporating global trends into Egyptian music, producers aim to capture foreign markets, or at least to give the impression (to local markets) of making Egyptian singers relevant to foreign markets. The foreign market itself comprises two essential segments: those of Arab descent seeking connections to the “home country” (expats), and the non-Arabs “world music” market. Those of Arab descent, but born abroad, seek music reflecting their dual identity: combining local aesthetic standards with Arabic language and sound. Aside from its privileged economic position and expanding population, in the 1990s the importance of the Western-Arab market has sharply increased with better distribution of Arab music CDs (largely via Internet), and widespread Western consumption of Arab music via satellite broadcasts of “videoclips”, and music programs, in which song rankings are determined by viewers. Thus to a great extent Arab music is being driven by its foreign market. The world-wide popularity of Latin music (and its perceived connections to Arab music) make it an excellent choice for increasing sales abroad.9 The non-Arab Western market seeks world music: the exotic in a familiar base; Latin/Spanish music, being both mainstream and “other”, helps bridge Arabic and Western popular musics, and consequently markets.10

Maturation of star-creation process argument
The music industry, including singers and their producers, has learned how to manufacture stardom. This ability has naturally produced a plethora of new stylistic syncretisms, as performers actively seek out visual and sonic material by which to forge a star persona, balancing continuity, imitations, and distinctiveness. The conscious control of this process naturally led Egyptian singers to incorporate the style of world-famous Latin pop stars into a shababi pop base. 'Amr Diab is a good example. Though inspired by 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz's persona, he didn't insist on imitating 'Abd al-Halim too closely. Rather he followed the principle which had made 'Abd al-Halim successful, fusing continuity, modernity, and innovation in a musical style and image. Breaking free of Egyptian traditions, he sported western dress and haircuts, benefiting as the cutting edge of fashion. More specifically, he imitated international Latin singers, such as Ricky Martin, in order to endear himself to Egyptian fans.

Arbitrary difference argument
In the foregoing arguments, Latin and Spanish music do not carry any essential significance beyond representing trends happening in the West, or globally, or at least perceived as such. But this argument was also taken to a further extreme, by arguing that Spanish influence does not carry any particular significance at all, beyond the mere presentation of difference.

In the music mix, differentiation is necessary in three dimensions: differentiation from older tarab music to imply modernity; from the local to imply the global; and from previous mixes to imply innovation. If the first two establish Egyptian pop music as contemporary and international (like “world music” in the West), the third establishes a particular product or artist as unique. As Egyptian music is increasingly driven by a sophisticated profit-seeking music industry, new albums are created and consumed more quickly. The commercial maturation of the music industry means that the music field is increasingly crowded and competitive. Each singer therefore attempts either to be unique, or to imitate others who are already successful; the latter must relentlessly seek out new musical styles. Not only cassettes, but entire styles are rapidly consumed. Whereas the tarab era favored musical craftsmanship and innovation within a stable style, today radical stylistic change has great commercial value. Marketers favor globally popular non-Egyptian styles, never previously fused with shababi music, to enable a new cassette to “burst” (yitfar'a') on the scene, since otherwise the active bootleg cassette industry will reduce sales. Spanish influence is being used only to

Rockist_Scientist (hair by Joelle) (RSLaRue), Sunday, 21 August 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ha3aO6H8XYoJ:www.arts.ualberta.ca/~michaelf/Some%2520Meanings%2520of%2520the%2520Spanish%2520Tinge.rtf+zajal+cds&hl=en

Some Meanings of the Spanish Tinge in Contemporary Egyptian music

Michael Frishkopf

[Published in Mediterranean Mosaic, edited by Goffredo Plastino ( Routledge Publishing, 2002)]

Introduction
Arab popular music from the mid 1990s onward strikingly displays the influence of Spanish and Latin music styles: the Spanish tinge. While these musical fusions are relatively straightforward (if varied) in execution, their meanings are more complex. Mere consideration of the Arabic adjectives associated with Spanish influence - Latini, Andalusi, filimanku (flamenco), gharbi (western), bahrawsati (Mediterranean), 'alami (global) -- as well as the multiple categories into which Spanish-tinged songs are sorted - shababi (youth), hadis (modern), bub (pop) - suggest the dense tangle of meanings which Spanish-tinged Arabic music presents to Arab listeners.1 The present study aims to begin the process of unraveling these meanings, as understood by Egyptians. It is neither my intention to document the Spanish tinge exhaustively, nor to explain it in “objective” historical terms. Rather, my aim is hermeneutic “ethnohistory”2: to interpret how Egyptians themselves interpret the Spanish tinge as a historical trend; how they relate it to their past, explain its salience in the present, and assess what it means for the future. It is the production of historical knowledge, rather than reconstruction of history itself, which is the point of the study: to understand how people organize their own experience of music history. This chapter thus stands in the ethnographic more than the historiographic tradition. It constitutes a “second order” interpretation, the usual epistemological condition for cultural anthropology (Geertz 1973:15), not history.

This task is triply valuable, for: (1) illuminating ongoing cultural processes by which Egyptians construct coherent patterns of historical self-representation, processes which carry additional significance as co-generators of future history; (2) producing subjective evidence, via Egyptians' reflection upon their own lived experiences through history, interpretable as a means of accessing that history; (3) illuminating objective history directly, insofar as Egyptians are (being close to it) well-poised to comprehend it (without denying or forgetting that another kind of more “etic” history, while not performed here, is also crucial).

Despite the theoretical value of (2) and (3), I cautiously do not submit this research as a piece of historical work, but rather as ethnohistorical only. But the new Spanish tinge turned out to be such a rich symbol that in attempting to explain and interpret it, Egyptians automatically revealed more general attitudes about culture and cultural change in contemporary Egypt. Thus in the final analysis, investigation of “the Spanish tinge” is perhaps most useful as a kind of Rorschach test, a catalyst for the articulation of diverse cultural thinking active in Egypt today.

The scope of the Spanish tinge in Arab music today
Ferdinand “Jelly Roll” Morton coined the phrase “Spanish Tinge” to refer to Latin influence in jazz (Williams 1970:28). Yet Spanish influence (broadly conceived to include Latin musics) has been strong worldwide, from the early 20th century onwards, and has lately surged into the mainstream due to new fusions, and the powerful engine of the American music industry. In 1975 a “Best Latin Recording” category was added to the Grammy awards; their “Best World Music album” award (established 1991) has gone to Latin artists in five of the previous 10 years (Grammy awards 2002). Latin megastars with broad appeal, such as Ricky Martin, Carlos Santana, and Shakira, have recently been dominating mainstream pop music charts, while successive albums by the Gipsy Kings (from southern France but drawing on flamenco and Latin traditions (See Gipsy Kings 2002) have ranked high on Billboard's world music chart since its inception in 1990 (Taylor 1997:5,209ff).3 All this has been marketed worldwide as Spanish/Latin culture, but also stands as “American”, “Western”, or “modern” culture (due to centers of production and popularity, mainstream industry status, and fusions: Latin-rock, Latin-pop, Latin-jazz), “global” culture (due to scope, “non-western” origins, and syncretisms), and as a symbol of globalization itself. Within Arab culture, the Spanish tinge also carries particular cultural and historical meanings, via medieval Andalusia, the Mediterranean, Europe, North America, Latin America, each of which is susceptible to multiple interpretations and valences.

Two factors, then, motivate this study. One is the striking rise of Spanish and Latin styles in Arab popular music over the last ten years. The other is the dense layering of its potential meanings within Arab culture, as linked to the broader significances attached to geographical regions, historical periods, and cultural processes. The Spanish tinge in Arab pop presents a rich symbolic lode for anthropological investigation.

The Spanish tinge in Egyptian pop music occurs primarily in the domain of “al-musiqa al-shababiyya” (youth music, already a fusion of older Arab music with western rock and pop). Spanish influence includes instrumental, timbral, melodic, harmonic, rhythmic, textural, and occasionally linguistic resources. Most often, influence is manifested in acoustic guitar styles, both rhythmic and melodic (often an ersatz 'flamenco'); in Latin grooves and percussion; or in distinctive harmonic progressions. Within a song, Spanish influence may appear vertically, in short segments: introductions, instrumental interludes, or fills (lawazim) separating vocal phrases. At the level of album, influence is likewise vertical, since in the typically only one or two (out of 8 - 12) songs contain Spanish influence (though these are often the most popular). Or influence may appear horizontally, as one sonic layer within a shababiyya texture including also Arabic, Western rock/pop, and perhaps other styles as well. Occasionally the Spanish style constitutes the primary matrix for an entire song.

Amr Diab
Amr Diab4 is the most popular music star in Egypt today, and among the three or four most consistently popular singers in the Arab world, from the 1990s to the present. Diab has consistently innovated since his first album in 1986; his great fame and financial success ensures that his artistic decisions reach a vast audience, and spawn many imitators. Since the mid-1990s, Diab's output has increasingly displayed Spanish influence. His broad influence in defining contemporary Arab pop motivated me to place him at the center of my ethnographic inquiry. A brief examination of his life, representing a microcosm of most of the trends to be discussed, is thus apropos.5

Diab was born in 1961, to a middle class family in Port Said. For Egyptians, this city carries considerable symbolic importance for modernity, nationalism, and westernization, and Diab's modern image owes something to his birthplace. Located where the Suez Canal meets the Mediterranean, Port Said was founded in 1859 as the canal's Mediterranean port. Young by Egyptian standards, cosmopolitan, industrialized, Port Said was devastated by three wars (1956, 1967, 1973), but always returned to supply a wide range of goods, local and imported; after 1973 Port Said was declared a free-trade zone to encourage investments (Hamed 1981:3).Inclining towards music at an early age, he received encouragement from his family to pursue a career in music, studying at the music faculty of the Cairo Academy of Art in the mid 1980s. His first album Ya Tariq (1986) soon followed, and was an instant success. Since then he has released sixteen albums, and garnered many awards in recent years for best-selling Arab artist.

Beyond birthplace and talent, Diab's social and generational positions were instrumental in catapulting him to the vanguard of Egyptian pop. His career has coincided with rapidly increasing media sophistication of Arab pop styles; Diab was the first Egyptian singer to make extensive use of the fidiyuklib (“videoclip”, or music video), starting around 1990, and video broadcasts (especially to Arab communities abroad) have contributed greatly to his fame. His adoption of new western fashions in clothes and hairstyle contributes to his au courant image, setting standards for millions of Egyptian youth, as well as establishing him as source (hence symbol) of Western cool. His budding film career has further disseminated his image and music.

Gradually his career has become more international. Besides touring abroad, his use of foreign musical styles has garnered international acclaim, and his fan base has increasingly extended outside the Arab world; this fact in turn reflects and necessitates continued deployment of those styles. Indeed, the most striking feature of his 1990s output is the increasing diversification of music styles, especially Spanish and Latin. Some Arabs began to refer to his as the “Mediterranean sound”. His internationally acclaimed “Nur al-'Ayn” (1996), became popular in European discos, often remixed with dance grooves. Subsequently, Diab received a World Music Award (Monaco, 1998) for best global sales (in the newly established Middle Eastern category), alongside Mariah Carey, Puff Daddy, and the Backstreet Boys; the program (hosted by Gloria Estafan among others) was broadcast to 130 countries worldwide (though non-Western musics were evidently omitted in the American version) (Dezzani 1998). Diab reportedly stated that he considers this award as a first step towards popularizing Egyptian music internationally (Egypt guide 2002). At the ceremony his performance of the title track, cast in a flamenco/Gipsy Kings mold, was broadcast to an international audience. Subsequently his music, often remixed in various grooves, became popular in European discos. All this enhanced his image at home, too, even among those who do not ordinarily listen to (or even approve of) his music, for Diab's international recognition (as for Egyptian Nobel laureates Naguib Mahfuz (1988) and Ahmed H. Zewail (1999), whose works most Egyptians do not read) constitutes an important source of cultural pride and confirmation.

Though Spanish influence is most salient, Diab has experimented with other musical hybrids as well, including Turkish, North African, Greek, electronica, and hip-hop sounds. On his 1999 album Qamarayn he collaborated with Khaled, the star of French-Algerian Rai, and the Greek pop diva Angela Dimitriou (also famous in Turkey). “Wala 'ala baluh” (from Aktar Wahid, 2001) features a mix of classical Arab melody with techno and rap. A complex of features--Spanish, Arab, Western, Mediterranean, global--is thus evident in his life history and work.

The Spanish tinge: Amr Diab, Egypt, and beyond
What is the evidence for the Spanish tinge in Egypt? As principal trendsetter, a review of Diab's 1990s ouput (also foregrounded in my ethnographic investigation) is instructive; a few other examples can be mentioned to show that Diab is by no means alone. “Leeli” (from the album Shawa'na, 1990) imitates “Lambada”. “Eeh bass illi ramaak” (Habibi, 1992) opens with Spanish-style acoustic guitar, which returns for fills. On Ayamna (1993), “Hawak hayyarni” begins with conga sounds, and “Taba' el Hayah” features a Latin groove, plus Spanish guitar and Brazilian pop harmonies. However it is on Wi yilumuni (1995) that flamenco sounds appear in force, in “Ahlif bi il-layali” and “Wi yilumuni”. Ragi'in (1996) features a Latin groove on “Balash tikallimha”. The title track on Nur al-'Ayn (1996) presents the clearest example yet of a Spanish-flamenco groove, instrumentation, and harmonic progression, displacing the usual Arab pop matrix. 'Awwiduni (1998) features a Latin/flamenco groove and progression on “Kull il-kalam” and “Wi ghalawtik”, while “Milk Ideek” highlights Spanish guitar filigree. On Amareen (1999) the Latin/flamenco sound appears in the title track. Tamalli Ma'ak (2000) contains the Latin-based “Albi ikhtarak” (often compared to Santana's 1999 “Smooth”), and four songs infused with flamenco styles: “il-'Alam Allah”, “Sinin”, “Wi hiyya 'amla eeh”, and “Tamalli ma'ak”. Finally his latest album (Aktar Wahid, 2001) contains no fewer than seven (out of ten) songs displaying deep Latin or flamenco influences, including the title track; by now one feels that for Diab the Spanish tinge has moved beyond color (loon) or novelty, to become incorporated in his musical language and identity.

However the Spanish Tinge runs broader than Diab alone. Indeed, in the late 1990s most of Egypt's most popular contemporary singers deploy the Spanish Tinge at least occasionally: Angham in “Habbeetak leeh” (Latin); Hakim in the introduction to his “Isma' ya illi” (2000); Hisham 'Abbas in “Sami' albi” (2000) and “Inti il-wahida” (1999), among many; Ihab Tawfiq in “La khatar”, “Mushta'”, and “Amar il-layali” (1999). Mustafa Qamar deploys a rich Spanish texture in “'Ayshin” (2000) (including a flamenco singer) and “'Ayneek wahshani” (1999), and a Latin groove in “Tal il-leel” (1997). In 1997 Qatar's MusicBox International marketed a very popular cassette entitled Arabica Latina, featuring Spanish Gipsy/Flamenco and Latin music with Spanish and Arabic words, through a production company in Cairo. The Gipsy Kings themselves have concertized in Egypt since the mid 1980s; today they are well known, performing on television and for weddings.

Furthermore, the Spanish tinge in Arabic music affects more than Egypt. Latin influences are hot in Lebanon, as evidenced by productions of top stars such as Nawal al-Zughbi (particularly in “Tul Umri”, 2001), or Julia Boutros (Bisaraha, 2001), or Raghib Allama, and many others. From Iraq, Ilham al-Madfa'i (e.g. Ilham Al Madfai, 1999) deploys Latin-flamenco textures. Within the wider sphere of Arab-Spanish fusions, Egypt represents an important case study, in view of the continued centrality of the Egyptian music industry to the Arab world as a whole.

Historical sources for musical ethnohistory
What is the source of this Spanish tinge in 1990s Egyptian pop? The trajectories of musical culture are never easy to locate, not only because of the mass of musical data to be examined, or the difficulty in reconstructing the musical past, but because of the difficulty in assessing which phenomena are to be connected as historically continuous. But in this section I do not aim to analyze the objective sources of the contemporary Spanish tinge in Egyptian pop, much less to trace a continuous history from those origins to present. Rather I want to illuminate three historical periods which figure heavily in Egyptian interpretations of their own musical history.

Andalusia as historical past, and contemporary symbol
From North Africa, Muslim armies loyal to the Umayyad dynasty of Damascus took the Iberian Peninsula in 711-13, defeating the weak Spanish Visigoth Kingdom, and establishing the Muslim Iberian domain of al-Andalus. After the Umayyads fell to the Abbasids in 750, 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Mu'awiya (one of the former) escaped to al-Andalus where he managed to unify a fractious polity, and establish the Umayyad Marwanid dynasty of Cordoba (756-912). Various Muslim dynasties followed, most notably the Berber Almoravids (1056-1147) and Almohades (1130-1296). Following centuries of conflict with forces of the Spanish Reconquista, the last Muslim kingdom (Granada) fell in 1492. By this time most Muslims and Jews had emigrated to North Africa; those who remained converted to Christianity (Moriscos) but were expelled (mainly to North Africa) from 1609 to 1614. (Levi-Provencal 1999b; Levi-Provencal 1999a; Wiegers 1999; Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:130)

The brilliant flowering of Arabo-Islamic Andalusian culture was catalyzed by rulers, who patronized the arts and learning, and funded such architectural marvels as the Alhambra. In the late 10th century, al-Hakam II founded a great library at Cordoba containing 400,000 volumes, facilitating high achievements in philosophy, astronomy, mathematics, medicine, art and architecture, literature, and music (Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:131-132). Abu al-Hasan 'Ali ibn Nafi', better known as Ziryab, was a student of Ishaq al-Mawsili, court musician to Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid (r. 786-809). Ziryab captured Harun's fancy, thereby arousing al-Mawsili's jealousy; the latter forced him to flee. Thus did Ziryab arrive at the Andalusian court of 'Abd al-Rahman II (r. 822-852), where he soon eclipsed all other musicians of al-Andalus, developing new musical forms, and establishing an influential Music School at Cordoba (Farmer 1973:/128-130; Touma 1996:11,68-69). Andalusian culture developed two popular new poetic forms, thus breaking the dominance the qasida had formerly enjoyed: (1) the classical muwashshah; (2) the colloquial zajal. Their stanzaic forms rendered these more suitable for music than the qasida's distiches (Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:135), and they continue to be used throughout the contemporary Arab world (al-Faruqi 1975).

The cultural efflorescence of Andalusia, situated at the interface between Islamic and Christian worlds, directly influenced the latter. Works by Andalusian scholars (such as philosopher Ibn Rushd, aka Averroës, d. 1198) were translated to Latin, and distributed throughout Christian Europe (Lapidus 1988:383-384). There is also much evidence for musical influence; thus the European lute stems morphologically and etymologically from the Arabic one (al-'ud); 'guitar' comes from Arabic 'qitar', and Arab song appears to have influenced songs of medieval Europen minstrelsie (Farmer 1970:4; Goldziher and Desomogyi 1966:135). Though its extent has been debated, the putative facticity of this influence is key to constructions of musical history among contemporary Arabs.

In North Africa, the classical forms of al-musiqa al-andalusiyya (nawba or ala in Morocco, san'a in Algiers, and ma'luf in Tunis) are valorized (by dominant ideology) as the very musical forms of Andalusian courts (and transferred by emigrants), whose contemporary stylistic differences result only from synchronic differences among various Andalusian court traditions (such as Seville, Cordoba, and Granada) (Touma 1996:70). Though this myth is sustained by anonymous ascription of musical pieces, and the symbolic value of Andalusia, musical and historical analysis suggests that Andalusian repertoires in different parts of North Africa developed quasi-independently, due to vagaries of oral tradition and contrasting regional histories. (Davis 1996a:423-4; Davis 1996b:316).

Likewise, Egyptians and Levantines associate the muwashshah (qua musical genre) with Andalusia (“al-muwashshah al-andalusiyya”), though evidence suggesting a continuous musical linkage to Andalusia is even weaker than for North African music, and there is plenty of evidence suggesting discontinuities, including differences in poetic meter, and innovations by well-known composers of Syria and Egypt in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, such as the Syrian 'Umar Batsh (1885-1950), and the Egyptian Sayyid Darwish (1892-1923) (Touma 1996:83-84).

Five widely-cited attributes render Andalusia a potent and affective symbol in the modern Egyptian imagination: (1) Muslim military victories over Christian Europe; (2) enlightened rulers; state patronage of arts and sciences; tolerance of religious diversity; and intellectual freedom; (3) consequently: the flowering of scholarly and artistic achievements; (4) the influence of Andalusian culture in kindling the European renaissance; (5) the romantic (almost Edenic) tragedy of loss and exile, a metaphor for all lost “golden ages” and utopias.

These features combine to project Andalusia as asserting the greatness of the Arabs, inverting the contemporary power relations between the Arabs and the west, constituting proof that Western modernity is indebted to the Arabs, and suggesting that greatness is again possible. At the same time, Andalusia invokes powerful feelings of nostalgia.

While Andalusia has served as a potent literary symbol for centuries (Aboul-Ela 1999), it loomed particularly large in the ideological period of Arab nationalisms, from the 1950s onward. Andalusia resonates at many levels in literature of this period. Poems alluded to Andalusia as a symbol of lost beauty and hope (e.g. Nizar Qabbani, who saw “…in the fading glories of Alhambra the possibilities for a rebirth of the Islamic nation and Arab aesthetics” (Woffenden and Mitwalli 1998)), or exile (in poetry of Mahmoud Darwish); Yusuf Chahine's 1998 film al-Masir uses the decline of Andalusia as a means to critique contemporary Egyptian anti-liberalism.

“Egypt's liberal experiment,1922-1936” and the Spanish tinge
In the 19th c, urban Egyptian musical life centered upon varied folk and religious genres, and the more musically elaborate entertainments of popular singers with takht (Arab chamber ensemble) and choral accompaniment, incorporating much Ottoman influence. The latter, epitomized by stars such as 'Abdu al-Hamuli, Muhammad 'Uthman, and Yusuf Manyalawi, and patronized by elites, was associated with the ineffable aesthetic quality called tarab, “musical ecstasy” (Racy 1985). Performatively, the tarab style features impeccable intonation, proper treatment of the melodic modes (maqamat), improvisation and variation, unison or heterophonic textures, stately tempos, slow solo expressive singing, concentrated listening, and emotional feedback from audience to performer (See Racy 1991).

Alongside such “traditional” music were musical styles introduced from western Europe following the Napoleonic campaign of 1798, and supported by the determination of Muhammad 'Ali (r. 1805-1848) and his descendents to modernize the country along European lines. The late 19th century saw the first stirrings of Egyptian nationalism (Vatikiotis 1969:136ff; Holt 1966:211ff). Paradoxically, though turned against British oppression, such stirrings were inspired by European enlightenment ideals. Culturally, politically, and technically Europe presented the highest model for many educated Egyptians, the very definition and source of modernity. (See Hourani 1983) Broad admiration for European culture produced many attempts to emulate it. In music, these included European-style military bands, Italian opera, French-inspired theater, and Western instruments (especially violin, piano, and accordion) (Racy 1985).

The pace of change accelerated rapidly in the early 20th century, with a larger, more educated populace; urbanization; development of technical infrastructure (Hourani 1991:333ff); and the corresponding rise of commercial media mass-markets, especially phonograms (from 1904), radio (from the 1920s), and musical film (1930s) (Racy 1978; Castelo-Branco 1987:32-35). Pressured by change, the elaborate 19th c musical genres swiftly declined in the 1920s (Racy 1988:139). Flexible musical forms, improvisation, and small chamber ensembles gave way to more fixed arrangements, and larger orchestras. But the core aesthetic of tarab continued to dominate urban Egyptian music until the 1970s as what Racy calls the “neutral canvas” upon which all innovations were painted as “colors” (alwan) in the central domain of music in Cairo (Racy 1982:391-397).

Forces of nationalism sprang forth violently as the Revolution of 1919 (Sayyid-Marsot 1977:4), and Britain bestowed a nominal independence in 1922; thereafter the khedive became king, and a multiparty constitutional parliamentary democracy was installed featuring some measure of liberal political values until 1952 (but especially before 1936, when the Anglo-Egyptian treaty was signed) (Sayyid-Marsot 1977). The privileged status of Europeans, the presence of large Mediterranean expatriate community, and French-speaking Egyptian elites ensured a cosmopolitan diversity and openness to foreign influences, at least in Alexandria and Cairo. Political, social, and economic modernization proceeded rapidly to “push Egypt squarely into the modern age” (Sayyid-Marsot 1977:6). Political liberalization, combined with continued de facto British control, European economic dominance, a broad Egyptian acknowledgement of European cultural superiority, and the commercial forces of new entertainment media and industries, all encouraged incorporation of European musical styles into Arab music. But foreign influence was more free-wheeling prior to the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, after which foreigners were forced out, and Egyptian nationalism turned from European enlightenment ideals to the more rigid hegemonic forms of a military regime, including a purposive “cultural policy” (el-Shawan 1979:113-115).

Composer and singer Muhammad 'Abd al-Wahhab (1897?-1991), whose artistic personality crystallized in the atmosphere of early nationalism, modernization, the monarchy, and Europe (including travels under the tutelage of his poet-mentor Ahmad Shawqi (Danielson 1997:171; Armbrust 1996:72)), was a famous exponent of European modernism within an “eastern” matrix (Armbrust 1996:63-93). He once stated that “…most of our traditions now follow western lines, which has taken control of our life and the form of our social and artistic activities. There is no harm in this. Foreign influence, adapting to the world renaissance, is necessary for evolution. We must bring western instruments into Eastern music…and new melodies…but also hold to our eastern spirit.” But music, he said, should be a true eastern creation, even if it appears in western garb (al-Hifni 1999:54-55).

John Storm Roberts' The Latin Tinge recounts the spread of Latin musics to North America (where new fusions and hybrids emerged) and around the globe. The motive force was the unique relation between US market power, media, capital, and attraction for “exotic” musical forms just south of the border. Fads were triggered through commercial entertainment mass media. Thus a craze for Argentine tango (deriving from Spanish gypsy music via Cuba) swept the US following the success of a 1913 musical show, The Sunshine Girl, featuring dancers Vernon and Irene Castle (Roberts 1979:15,44). Interest in Latin music affected Tin Pan Alley songs in the 1920s, which were disseminated widely (Roberts 1979:50). In 1931 Don Azpiazu's hit “The Peanut Vendor” ushered in a new craze for the (Americanized) Cuban rumba (Roberts 1979:76). In the 1940s Latin musicians received more publicity; new forms such as mambo and Latin jazz emerged (Roberts 1979:100). Primarily driven by the engine of the American music industry, the popularity of Latin music soon became international (Roberts 1979:212ff).

Despite stylistic differences between tarab and Latin musics (especially the latter's use of functional harmony), early 20th c Egypt was remarkably susceptible to this trend. 'Abd al-Wahhab frequently deployed Spanish influences in the 1930s, when the Latin Tinge was so potent in Europe and North America: Spanish castanets in “Fi il-leel lamma khala”; Argentine tango in “Marreet 'ala beet il-habayib”, and “Sahrat minnu al-layali” (al-Hifni 1999:53). In the 1950s he composed “Ahibbak wa inta fakirni” (harmonized tango); and a rumba groove in “Khi khi”. Such songs were extremely popular. Yet, true to his words, 'Abd al-Wahhab's music is founded on an “eastern” tarab base, the “neutral canvas” upon which various colors, from Latin to Beethoven to tango, are layered, often obscuring but never permanently negating the tarab aesthetic (Racy 1982).

But while introduction of tango and other musical material was certainly innovative, the Western identity (as they were often heard) of such “borrowings” could also be ideologically critiqued, even as their meanings are subject to debate among Egyptians today. Along with many Arabs, 'Abd al-Wahhab believed that the West is indebted to the East. No doubt reacting to criticism, he stated that his western borrowings are “…nothing more than the Oriental art of our ancestors, which had originally made its way into the western consciousness…being returned to us” (Okasha 2000). Here is a prefiguring of the Andalusian argument, elaborated below, which continues to strongly color Arab borrowings of Spanish and Latin musics today.

Similarly, Farid al-Atrash (1910?-1974), a Syrian Druze who lived most of his life in Cairo, innovated on the tarab tradition, without abandoning it. Farid was especially famous for his brilliant solo 'ud improvisations (taqasim); a style featuring flamenco melodies, harmonies, and rhythmic techniques was widely esteemed and imitated (Zuhur 2001:271). Like 'Abd al-Wahhab, Farid used Latin music in a number of precomposed songs, including orchestrated tangos such as “Ya zahra fi khayyal” (replete with Latin harmonizations and accordion, from his 1947 film, Habib al-'Umr), and “Ana wa illi bahibbu” (from his 1950 film, Akhir kidba).

The lag between the western tango craze of the 1920s, and its appearance in Egyptian songs from the 1930s-50s, foreshadows a pattern, and contemporary criticism of Egyptian musical borrowings: that they constitute delayed reactions to world trends, inferior imitations, rather than innovations, indicative of cultural dependency and lack of self-confidence.

Despite the various overlays, the tarab style continued to flourish into the 1970s. But by then new changes were underway.

The roots of the contemporary pop explosion: 1970s to early 1980s
Following the Egyptian revolution of 1952, the development of Arab socialist nationalism by a popular and charismatic president helped restore Egyptian self-esteem. For the first time since antiquity Egypt was boldly independent, a self-directed leader among the new Arab nations. The state strictly controlled the national economy; large businesses were nationalized, and most foreigners left. 'Abd al-Nasir's ideology, while it certainly did not preclude foreign cultural influence, discouraged imports, and encouraged artistic self-confidence, self-sufficiency, and export. Already geographically and demographically central to the Arab world, under his leadership Egypt became the ideological, political, and cultural center as well. Governmental support and monopolization of the media (radio, TV, film, and phonograms), and special attention to particular singers, such as Umm Kulthum and 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz, established Egypt's musical influence throughout the Arab world (Hourani 1991:340, 393); Umm Kulthum's musical dominance is nearly a metaphor of state control: the Voice of Egypt (Danielson 1997). But by the mid 1960s, the system was faltering. Nasserism, as it came to be called, became inefficient and corrupt, and dreams of modern development, justice, and power were continually deferred (Aulas 1982:7). Some of the hypocrisies of the system were revealed by Egypt's defeat in the 1967 war with Israel, and with the death of 'Abd al-Nasir in 1970 his eponymous ideology was fatally shaken too.

After the 1973 war, Nasir's successor Anwar Sadat took a new tack with his “open door” policy (infitah), laissez-faire economics opening the economy to foreign investment and imports, and establishing free trade zones in Port Said and elsewhere, in the hopes of attracting foreign capital so that Egypt could follow in the footsteps of model nations such as Brazil (the Latin American model) and South Korea (Aulas 1982:7-8). Culturally the infitah was a move towards the West, and away from the Soviets with whom Nasir had been close.

But the result was economic chaos and social upheaval, as Egypt's statist economy was rapidly integrated into the world market (Aulas 1982:8). New economic opportunities (legal and illegal) beckoned from every direction (including commercial music ventures), and a nouveau riche of entrepreneurs emerged with new musical tastes. Those tastes would become increasingly important as the private sector music industry developed its sophistication to target lucrative markets. But inflation was rampant, while government wages were nearly fixed. Many rural areas were impoverished, and the cities swelled with rural immigrants, providing ever-greater markets for the new entrepreneurs. A rift between rich and poor opened. At the same time, the developing Gulf states were becoming rich with oil, and needed labor (Aulas 1982:14-15). During the 1970s and 80s, Egyptians worked abroad, sending home remittances and returning with new gadgets, now also available in Egypt's newly expanded import market. Most relevant to the current discussion was the widespread purchase of tape players, and television sets, which hastened musical commodification, and broadened markets. Though the infitah failed to attract much foreign capital, it did expand the internal market for imports (Aulas 1982:11,15). That market demanded capital equipment and media to fuel the cassette music revolution. Cassette blanks, recorders, and duplication equipment, cheaper than their phonodisc predecessors, became available. Musicians could more easily import musical equipment, such as amplifiers and foreign-made instruments.

Suddenly it was more feasible for small businesses to produce recordings in private studios. The government could not easily regulate production, and the new culture of infitah was well disposed to entrepreneurial ventures. Decentralized production meant development of many more market niches: rather than a dominant 'central domain' (Racy 1982:391-392), multiple competing domains emerged, reflecting the newly competitive private sector (Castelo-Branco 1987).

But the infitah was also a cultural reorientation towards the West. Under Nasir, Egyptian radio broadcast a daily program of western music called “al-Shari' al-Gharbi” (the Western Street). The Sadat years greatly increased direct Western media exposure. Two popular television programs, “Ikhtarna lak” (we chose for you) and “al-'Alam yughanni” (the world sings) brought western programming to all Egyptians with access to TV (and the percentage was rapidly increasing), including the West's culture of musical style, performance, and reception. Spanish flamenco, and Julio Iglesias, were popular on these programs. Cassettes of western popular stars, original or bootleg copies, became widely available.

The import of Western tastes and cultural products dovetailed with the import of Western modes of production and economic organization. Western popular music became more available, and more desirable. The largest market was the young generation, maturing under infitah, for whom the old tarab style was too heavy and old-fashioned. They longed for something new: shorter, faster songs, with more Western content.

Cultural influence was not only from the West, however. The rise of petro-dollars, combined with an increasing migrant worker population, increased influence from the east. Singers began to direct songs to rich Gulf (khaligi) Arabs summering in Cairo, or via media. Egyptian workers returned with a taste for khaligi musical styles. Islamism, inspired by Saudi and local preachers (and supported by Sadat for political ends), expanded rapidly in the 1980s, spearheading a new feeling of anti-Westernism.

Singers such as Warda, Nagat, and Hani Shakir continued the tarab tradition, as represented by Umm Kulthum, Farid al-Atrash, and 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz (though significantly all three passed away in the mid 1970s, and 'Abd al-Wahhab was no longer very active). Each of the younger tarab generation strove to be the khalifa (successor) of the predecessors, though none succeeded in revitalizing the tarab tradition. Correspondingly, the tarab style, until then the primary matrix for urban music, began to lose its status as the 'neutral canvas' of a 'central domain'. 6 Instead two new (not entirely separable) types arose, rejecting that canvas: musiqa sha'biyya, and musiqa shababiyya. Both inhibited tarab via short fast songs, simple melodies, and a dance-like ethos. (See also Danielson 1996:301)

Musiqa sha'biyya (“popular” music) is based in rural song, combined with urban lower class dance music, and some western instrumentation (including synthesizers). This style is the musical response to rapid ruralization of the cities: lowbrow, appealing to inhabitants of popular districts. Performers such as Ahmad 'Adawiyya, Hasan al-Asmar, and 'Abdu al-Iskandarani updated older traditions of mawwal and zagal (genres of folk song), and risque wedding songs, by modernizing the instrumentation and addressing urban life without losing a folk feel, full of improvisation and flexible interaction. Suggestive lyrics earned this material the moniker “aghani habta” (low songs) (Armbrust 1996:180-190; Danielson 1996:307).

Musiqa shababiyya (youth music) fused western popular music styles and instruments with Arab characteristics. This new “bub” (pop) music (sometimes mislabeled “jil” in the West (Werner 2000), a term Egyptians generally do not use) retains Arabic language, lyrical meanings, and elements of the tarab vocal style, thus addressing local aesthetic preferences. Arab percussion is typically retained as well. As one of my respondents put it, despite evident Westernization, there is a “Eastern spirit” in this music. But this spirit blends with the grooves of western popular musics (rock, jazz, funk, or disco), featuring trapset, keyboards, bass, and guitar, and often employs melodic and functional harmony as well. Composers and arrangers are central; performances are often multitracked; there is consequently less room for vocal interpretation or interactions. Unlike the tarab tradition, the music's social identity sometimes centers on the band rather than the singer. Shababi music is directed at educated middle-upper classes who appreciate western styles, though it can be popular at many levels.

Out of these swirls of mixing cultures, several key musicians, bands, and styles emerged in shababi music. Hani Shanuda popularized the org (Arabic synthesizer)7; the first generation of Arab-Western bands included the Blackcoats, and the Petit Chats (with Hani Shanuda on keyboard) in the early 1970s In 1977, Hani Shanuda's band, al-Masriyyin, became famous, paving the way for many of today's shababi stars (Ghazaleh 2001; Armbrust 1996:186); Another popular 1970s group was the Jets, blending western rock with Arabic lyrics and sensibilities.

Samir al-Iskandarani combined harmonic disco grooves with Arabic percussion and classical muwashshahat in his 1978 album Layali Disco. Around the same time, Muhammad Nuh combined disco with popular Sufi music. Muhammad Munir's upbeat blends of Nubian, Egyptian, and western popular music were very popular, though media recognition was slow. Working with Hani Shanuda, he startled Egypt in the late 1970s with Binitwilid, featuring rock guitar, keyboards, trapset and harmony on an Arab groove, with a non-traditional philosophical text by 'Abd al-Rahim Mansur. Jazzy and inimitable, Munir was one of the first Egyptian singers blending Arab and European styles to achieve popular acclaim in Europe (he recorded with German rock bands Embryo and Logic Animal (Swedenburg 1997:95; Gehr 1997:33)).

Their post-colonial relationships made popular music cultural connections to Europe much stronger in North Africa than in Egypt. Two Libyans were central in the development of modern Egyptian pop. One is Nasir al-Mizdawi, whose songs feature Arabic lyrics and vocal style on a sophisticated pop-jazz base. al-Mizdawi's first tape became extremely popular in Egypt in the mid 1970s, influencing Egyptian musicians. The other is Hamid al-Sha'iri, who came to Egypt in the 1970s. Building upon al-Mizdawi's name and Libyan-European aesthetics, al-Sha'iri popularized the fast upbeat song in the mid 1980s.

Many of the innovators of shababi music continue to be active, though the field is much more densely populated today. al-Mizdawi has continued to influence Egyptian musicians, having composed many songs for Egyptian pop stars, including Amr Diab's most well-known song, “Nur al-'ayn” (1996). Muhammad Munir and Hamid al-Sha'iri remain among Egypt's top singers. Besides producing his own material, al-Sha'iri composes and arranges for many other singers; including arrangements for many of Amr Diab's recent albums. Hani Shanuda composed four songs on Amr Diab's first cassette (Ya Tariq, 1985), and arranged all of them; he continues to compose and arrange for others.

In both new styles, the vocalist is a pop culture star (nigm), though not a mutrib (producer of tarab) in the strict sense. Since the broadcast media were still controlled by the state, these new types were at first largely excluded from TV and radio, and developed via the new cassette industry--especially sha'bi (Armbrust 1996:184).

The 1970s witnessed a renewal in North American Latin music. In New York a developing hot, creative style, primarily combining jazz and Cuban influences, diffused under a new label: salsa. Latin rock emerged in the early 1970s. (Roberts 1979:186-191) These trends were to color Egyptian shababi music, or even transform it entirely.

Ethnohistory: Egyptians' interpretations of the Spanish tinge
I asked a variety of thoughtful Egyptians, living in Egypt, in Europe, and in Canada, to interpret and explain the recent profusion of Spanish and Latin sounds in Arab pop (shababi) music. Why Spanish, and why now? Discussions took place in person, by telephone, by e-mail, on listservs, and Internet bulletin boards. I used the career of Amr Diab as my central example, though discussions ranged widely.

Responses are categorized below, according to the kind of arguments used. Sorting responses was not an easy task, and required considerable interpretive activity on my part. For one thing, respondents didn't always fill in the logical chain and implications of their arguments; in what follows I have attempted to elaborate each argument while remaining true to what I perceive as its spirit. Secondly, responses frequently touched on a number of logically distinct positions, which I attempted to disentangle. Third, the various enumerated arguments are often interdependent, exhibiting a network structure that I attempted (with difficulty) to linearize. My occasional comments are relegated to footnotes.

Music, history, and culture
Andalusian argument
Most respondents pointed to Andalusia as a key factor in the selection of Spanish (and Latin) music, indicating the enduring power of al-Andalus in the contemporary Egyptian imagination. Andalusian arguments for the contemporary Spanish tinge took two forms: (1) symbolic value, and (2) genealogical compatibility. Both are predicated on the notion that at root the Spanish tinge is connected to Arab culture.

Spanish (and by extension Latin) music is a symbol that invokes Andalusia, not merely due to its origins on Andalusian territory, but due to perceptions of a distant Andalusian source as well. Spanish and Latin musics are at least indebted to (or even represent the diffusion of) Arab culture. Egyptians hear flamenco, Spanish music generally, and Latin music by extension, as all pointing to the nostalgic glory of al-Andalus. They hear the 'ud in the guitar; flamenco's “ole” as a corruption of “Allah”. The sounding of Andalusian symbols makes them all the more affective; as one respondent commented, “when you hear Spanish music you feel that you contributed to its construction”. The Spanish tinge carries the positive value of Andalusia; reasserts the fact of Europe's debt to the Arabs; retrieves what was originally Arab (as 'Abd al-Wahhab emphasized); hence does not incur cultural indebtedness. All three factors are particularly important today, when many Arabs are feeling a sense of cultural despair.

Secondly, there is the argument of compatibility based on a shared genealogy. If Spanish and Arab musics flow from a common source, then it is only natural that they should produce a consonant mix. Arab constructions of music history (signaled by terms such as “muwashshahat andalusiyya” and “musiqa andalusiyya”) provide evidence of continuity, suggesting that other branches of the Andalusian genealogy should likewise be compatible. Emotionally, Arabs naturally respond to Spanish music. More generally, many Egyptians view Spanish and Arab culture as highly congruent, as if there is a distant shared bloodline extending back to Andalusia.8

Continuity of Western influence argument
The Spanish tinge of the 1990s should be identified as a continuous extension to the use of Spanish musics earlier this century, but now within the context of shababi songs. This in turn is an instance of a more general propensity for Western styles in Egyptian music, e.g. the 1960s Franco-Arab fad (including such hits as “Mustafa ya Mustafa”, sung in Arabic and French). Such electicism is long-standing, a product of Egypt's openness, reflecting a particular colonial history. Though strongly shaped by France and Britain, Egypt was never a formal colony of either (even among colonies, British indirect rule reduced cultural dominance). Large non-Egyptian populations (Greek, Armenian, Jewish, Italian) in Cairo and Alexandria ensured cultural diversity in centers of cultural production. Consequently, and most unlike North Africa, Egypt culture was open to a wide range of Western cultures, producing foreign musical influence. Even if the sound of the contemporary Spanish tinge is new, its acceptability is linked to earlier popularity of the same styles. The adoption of Spanish music also followed naturally from the adoption of the guitar as a Western instrument in the 1970s. At first used to introduce jazz and rock styles, Egyptians associated the acoustic guitar with flamenco and Latin musics, facilitating entry of those musics. At the same time, from the 1970s onwards Spanish music (with the growth of salsa, Latin rock, and Latin pop) was increasingly important in mainstream Western popular music. Egyptian musicians following Western trends thus introduced Spanish styles.

Modern Latin American argument
Since 1952, Latin America has carried a special significance to Egypt, more so than any other region of the developing world. At first there was a sense that Latin America was structurally and culturally parallel to the Arab world, comprising poor third world countries (though not the poorest of the poor), manipulated by foreign imperialists. The struggles with poverty, against dictators, to achieve freedom, justice, democracy, and economic growth, were shared. Latin American liberation figures, such as Simon Bolivar, Fidel Castro, and Che Guevara (who met with Nasir) were cultural heroes to a segment of Egypt's revolutionary elites. Later, when Latin American countries achieved some measure of democracy and economic prosperity, Arabs wondered why, given their parallel conditions, they couldn't achieve the same thing. Since the 1970s, Latin American writers such as Marquez and Borges have been extremely influential in Egypt, and admired for their worldwide influence. In music (as in politics) the history of Latin America sets a standard for Egyptians to match: a “third world” music with European connections, which has become popular and influential world-wide, but especially in the West. By incorporating Latin music, Egyptians are identifying with Latin America and aspiring to what it has achieved.

Musical compatibility argument
Without necessarily invoking Andalusian genealogy, respondents frequently pointed to the compatibility of Arab and Spanish musics, as ensuring the Spanish tinge's aesthetic success. The compatibility is timbral (both musics center on similar stringed instruments), rhythmic (Arab cycles such as bamb and malfuf mesh easily with clave), and formal. Unlike traditional Arab music, Spanish music is harmonic and does not quartertones; however since the 1970s Arab music has developed harmony, and gradually reduced the use of quartertones. Furthermore, two Arabic scales lacking quartertones are central to Spanish musics: nahawand (analogous to the Western minor mode), and kurd (analogous to flamenco's Phrygian scale); furthermore, these two modes stir musical emotion quickly, an important quality for short shababi songs (in which there is no time for the longer modal developments and modulations of older tarab music).

Mediterranean argument
For some respondents the presence of Spanish (and by extension Latin) music reflects more general cultural mixing and borrowing around the Mediterranean, including also North African, French, Greek, Italian, Turkish. (For instance, Amr Diab has worked with Algerian, Greek, and Turkish musicians; Greek music of Zorba or Demis Roussos has been popular in Egypt.) Throughout history, Mediterranean peoples mixed and shared, due to proximity, and similar environments. Mediterranean cultures are “hot”, as opposed to the “colder” cultures of northern and eastern Europe. In Egypt, the Mediterranean cities, Alexandria and Port Said (birthplace of Diab), were important sites for cultural interaction, and the locus of much musical innovation. Mediterranean neighbor Libya also played a key role, since Libya maintained close ties to the west (especially Italy) until the 1969 coup, while Egypt was more closed. After 1969, when Qadhafi made conditions difficult, several Western-influenced musicians (including Nasir al-Mizdawi, Hamid al-Sha'iri) emigrated, and become influential in Egypt.

Passing of the stars argument
Umm Kulthum, 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz, and Farid al-Atrash, three of the four greatest vocal stars of Egypt's mid-century tarab tradition, passed away in the mid 1970s. Due to a shifted zeitgeist (see below), and (according to some) a paucity of equivalent vocal talent, younger singers found it impossible to take their places, though many tried. This fact created an aesthetic vacuum, which had to be filled with something new. The introduction of the Spanish tinge was a delayed reaction whose development required another fifteen years, after experiments with rock, disco, jazz and other styles had run their course.

Rupture of history and ahistoricality of the musical sign argument
Egypt is an ancient civilization, which has always borrowed from other cultures, while maintaining continuity through a cultural grasp of its own history. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, with advances in education, that grasp strengthened; the golden age occurred in the 1930s and 40s. The military-backed revolution of 1952 crushed this budding enlightenment; the educational system declined because revolutionary leaders were not themselves well educated; history was sacrificed to ideology. Blinded by the present, Egyptians lost their cultural memory, and an unprecedented rupture in historical continuity loomed.

The use of Spanish styles in post-revolutionary Egypt has nothing to do with Andalusia, or with Spanish-inflected music of the interwar period; it is rather an ahistorical musical sign designed to produce aesthetic pleasure for profit. Popularized in the 1990s, videoclip images (extending the power of musical products to dominate the visual as well as auditory field) play an important role in determining an ahistorical musical meaning, by gratifying and capturing more senses, riveting attention on the present. Watching videoclips of Spanish-tinged Arabic music, one sees white palaces, blue sky, clear water, beautiful girls dancing and singing, gorgeous sunsets. These are not signs of Andalusia, but rather ahistorical kitsch, designed to sell. Objectively the Spanish tinge may extend throughout history, but experientially one cannot connect present manifestations to that past.

The Zeitgeist of westernization, globalization, instability arguments
Several respondents postulated that music necessarily reflects cultural ethos, or zeitgeist. As the Egyptian zeitgeist became more Western, Western musical styles became more appropriate for Egyptian cultural expression, and hence are appropriated in the new shababi songs. As Latin music mixed into the Western mainstream (over the past two decades), it naturally appeared (albeit delayed) in Egyptian music as well.

A related argument holds that in the 1990s the Egyptian zeitgeist is becoming not more Western, but more global; or that the concept (if not the content) of the global and globalization is itself central to the Egyptian ethos. Latin/Spanish music's popularity in Egypt results not from its Western, but from its global popularity and meaning. Latin/Spanish music is global; furthermore (due to global spread and internal hybridity) it represents the concept of the global.

A third version holds that Egyptians feel insecure; everything is unstable in Egypt today. Egyptians don't know who they are or even what they want; rapid stylistic change reflects this uncertainty.

Music, politics, ideology
Music, politics, and post-ideology arguments
Several respondents stated or implied that Egyptian culture has been more open to foreign influence (interpreted as modernization) when its politics are more progressive. Two contrasting applications of this principle emerged.

In one interpretation, Egyptian progressiveness is associated with the pre-revolutionary period, particularly 1922-1952, when foreign musical influence was strongest in the music of 'Abd al-Wahhab and others. In this period models of modernity were drawn from European culture, through which came Latin music. During the Nasir years, socialist nationalism and statism caused Egypt to be more isolated. In the 1970s, with the infitah, and the decline of nationalism and Nasserism, Egyptian culture was again open to foreign economic, political, and cultural influence. But now diversity and globalism replaced Europe as a criterion for modernity. Throughout this experimental period a variety of musical influences appeared, to be sifted and sorted over the following decades; certain styles (including Spanish) ultimately emerged as most suitable (for any of the reasons presented earlier).

In a second interpretation, the pre-revolutionary period, as well as the mid 1960s, are viewed as progressive, in contrast to the reactionary 1970s. In the mid 60s, Egyptians were optimistic and confident about their progress towards modernity and global greatness. Though politics were not free, they were forward looking; reactionary Islamism was weak. Despite Nasir's anti-western rhetoric, western fashions were wildly popular. The 1960s thus represented a kind of cultural infitah, an acceptance of Western cultural modernity. Optimism and progressivism were extinguished by the 1967 defeat, and subsequent death of Nasir. The 1970s economic infitah was simultaneously a cultural closing (inghilaq), due to the rise in Gulf (khaligi) cultural influence, and the concomitant rise of reactionary Islamism, which did not decline until the early 1990s, by which time other ideologies were spent as well. The rise of more sophisticated musical fusions between Egyptian and compatible Western styles (including the Spanish) became more possible in the post-ideological 1990s.

Ideological uniqueness argument
Ideologically, Latin America is uniquely empowered as being both “Third world” and Western, among all musics of the world. Even today, Egyptians view Western culture as superior, yet they also seek symbols of resistance to Western dominance. Egyptian music producers want to fuse Arab music with a music fulfilling ideological criteria of “Western”, but also “global” and “Third World”, opposing the hegemony of Anglo-American pop. Latin music, associated with Spain (hence Europe), popular in the West, global in diffusion and internal syncretism, nicely fits the bill. Egyptians regard African music, for instance, as too “Third World”. (An additional advantage is the fact that Spain was not, for Egypt, a colonial oppressor.)

Ideological failures argument
Arab ideologies of unity and progress have failed. Leadership is poor; hypocrisy is everywhere. There is no democracy or political freedom; Palestine is still oppressed; there is economic distress and imbalance everywhere. The brutal 1991 US-led Gulf war against Iraq, and an increasingly hard-line Israeli regime unconditionally supported by the US, induced a turn away from American culture. Instead, the musical themes of Andalusia (ancient golden age) and Latin America (contemporary model) have come to the fore.

The maturation of the music industry
The rise of the commercial music industry argument
With the decline in historical memory after 1952, Egyptian music began to be freed from its own past. The infitah of the 1970s, in both its technological and free-market economic dimensions, provided the critical push towards a totally commercialized market-driven music industry. The motive force is profit, and the shape of the market. Market forces, in the absence of historical memory, necessarily produced radical change. Egyptian music is no longer truly Egyptian. Music is created to please foreign tastes of non-Egyptians (especially Gulf Arabs), or Egyptians alienated from their history. Poorer Egyptians maintained historical continuity, but with little financial clout they weakly influenced the market-driven system of music production. The age of unconstrained commercial music started in the 1970s, but marketing matured in the 1990s; during this period the market became less encumbered by ideological constraints. With the significant advent of the videoclip (popularized in the 1990s), musical meaning expanded to the visual sphere, to be more cunningly manipulated for a market seeking pleasure, not historical continuity. Since videoclips are intensively watched on ordinary Egyptian TV, as well as by Arab audiences living abroad, this mode of musical meaning increasingly determines musical contents.

Egypt today is increasingly globalization, full of economic and cultural linkages to the outside world, particularly the West. Because of these interconnections, any outside commercial cultural trends will quickly penetrate Egyptian markets as well, though a short delay is to be expected.

Because Spanish music is globally popular, a Spanish tinge in Arab music appeared: to sell to an international market, to sell to a local Egyptian market that has adopted foreign tastes, and to appear more international in the local market.

Maturation in musical tastes argument
A more sanguine view holds that the contemporary popularity of the Spanish tinge represents a delayed cultural selection from the infinite variety and confusion of the infitah era, when everything suddenly became possible. In the initial flush of enthusiasm, Egyptians saturated themselves with foreign cultural influences. Over the following twenty years, they gradually sifted through these influences, and selected Spanish musics as most compatible with their own.

Local marketing argument
Particularly in post-Nasserist Egypt, Egyptian audiences want to feel importantly connected to global history, as a means of reestablishing cultural self-confidence and a sense of their own relevance to the wider world. Therefore they value global musical trends outside Egypt; they value western culture (which largely controls those trends); they value that which signifies the concept of the global; and they value Egyptians who attain international stature. By blending Arab and Latin/Spanish, Egyptian music producers not only tap into an existing Egyptian fascination with Latin/Spanish music itself, but also with the very concepts of “western trend”, “global trend”, and “global fusion” which that music signifies; “global fusion” is further symbolized by the Arab/Spanish mix itself. But one respondent reports that in Egyptian villages listeners don't recognize Spanish sounds at all, identifying such music only as “western”. In this case, the value of the Spanish tinge may depend on the foreign marketing argument.

Foreign marketing argument
By incorporating global trends into Egyptian music, producers aim to capture foreign markets, or at least to give the impression (to local markets) of making Egyptian singers relevant to foreign markets. The foreign market itself comprises two essential segments: those of Arab descent seeking connections to the “home country” (expats), and the non-Arabs “world music” market. Those of Arab descent, but born abroad, seek music reflecting their dual identity: combining local aesthetic standards with Arabic language and sound. Aside from its privileged economic position and expanding population, in the 1990s the importance of the Western-Arab market has sharply increased with better distribution of Arab music CDs (largely via Internet), and widespread Western consumption of Arab music via satellite broadcasts of “videoclips”, and music programs, in which song rankings are determined by viewers. Thus to a great extent Arab music is being driven by its foreign market. The world-wide popularity of Latin music (and its perceived connections to Arab music) make it an excellent choice for increasing sales abroad.9 The non-Arab Western market seeks world music: the exotic in a familiar base; Latin/Spanish music, being both mainstream and “other”, helps bridge Arabic and Western popular musics, and consequently markets.10

Maturation of star-creation process argument
The music industry, including singers and their producers, has learned how to manufacture stardom. This ability has naturally produced a plethora of new stylistic syncretisms, as performers actively seek out visual and sonic material by which to forge a star persona, balancing continuity, imitations, and distinctiveness. The conscious control of this process naturally led Egyptian singers to incorporate the style of world-famous Latin pop stars into a shababi pop base. 'Amr Diab is a good example. Though inspired by 'Abd al-Halim Hafiz's persona, he didn't insist on imitating 'Abd al-Halim too closely. Rather he followed the principle which had made 'Abd al-Halim successful, fusing continuity, modernity, and innovation in a musical style and image. Breaking free of Egyptian traditions, he sported western dress and haircuts, benefiting as the cutting edge of fashion. More specifically, he imitated international Latin singers, such as Ricky Martin, in order to endear himself to Egyptian fans.

Arbitrary difference argument
In the foregoing arguments, Latin and Spanish music do not carry any essential significance beyond representing trends happening in the West, or globally, or at least perceived as such. But this argument was also taken to a further extreme, by arguing that Spanish influence does not carry any particular significance at all, beyond the mere presentation of difference.

In the music mix, differentiation is necessary in three dimensions: differentiation from older tarab music to imply modernity; from the local to imply the global; and from previous mixes to imply innovation. If the first two establish Egyptian pop music as contemporary and international (like “world music” in the West), the third establishes a particular product or artist as unique. As Egyptian music is increasingly driven by a sophisticated profit-seeking music industry, new albums are created and consumed more quickly. The commercial maturation of the music industry means that the music field is increasingly crowded and competitive. Each singer therefore attempts either to be unique, or to imitate others who are already successful; the latter must relentlessly seek out new musical styles. Not only cassettes, but entire styles are rapidly consumed. Whereas the tarab era favored musical craftsmanship and innovation within a stable style, today radical stylistic change has great commercial value. Marketers favor globally popular non-Egyptian styles, never previously fused with shababi music, to enable a new cassette to “burst” (yitfar'a') on the scene, since otherwise the active bootleg cassette industry will reduce sales. Spanish influence is being used only to

Rockist_Scientist (hair by Joelle) (RSLaRue), Sunday, 21 August 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

http://www.lightlink.com/xine/hlink.jpg
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http://www.lightlink.com/xine/hlink.jpg

Rockist_Scientist (hair by Joelle) (RSLaRue), Sunday, 21 August 2005 23:03 (twenty years ago)

And surf guitars are rooted in Mexico as well!

I hadn't known this! Who were the players? Up to now I'd considered surf guitar a variation on 1950s hillbilly guitar boogie, as (I'd assumed) was the James Bond theme and related int'l-thriller guitar twang. Of course there's no reason that surf music can't be multi-sourced. And come to think of it, some elements of psychedelic guitar probably derive from playing "flamenco" lines up from Mexico in h-billy guitar-boogie spy-surf style. (Bo Diddley sort of did this once on a track called "Aztec.")

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Monday, 22 August 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

oh yeah, the West Coast Chicano (and Anglos mixing Spanish elements with rockahillbilly boogie, and 6-string imitations of post-Hawaiian steel guitar acrocats like Speedy West and Santo and Johnny) connection with Surf, and thence Psych ,always seemed pretty clear(to ear, more than writing hand, so this is the end, my friend). Didn't have tyme yet to read all Rockist's post. (And how does one do that; is it as simple as cutnpaste, once actually registered on ILX?). Thus may be duplicating effort of text, but I noticed Spanish tinge in some of those Sublime Frequency comps of Asian music, esp from Indonesia, and notes point out music influenced by the fact that Indonesia has one of the biggest (maybe the biggest) Muslim populations on Earth.Lotsa pop, but none of it sounds like Ricky Martin,to me, anyway. (Maybe a tinge of that ancient Lebanese-American poet Tiffany Darwish, once in a while.)

don, Monday, 22 August 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

I thought I'd throw my two cents in here. I don't even know where to begin with contemporary world music. God bless the archivists who have helped me discover the beauty of gamelan, the soul of west african music, the anarchy of brazil, and the charm of cuba. God bless the japanese for either not knowing what the rules of western music are or not caring, thanks for klezmer, no thanks for bossa nova but nice try.

But contemporary "world" music (meaning music not-in-English, of the last twenty years) scares me to death. I love the older salsa artists I've heard, but my knowledge doesn't span past Celia Cruz and a few critically approved, well-packaged compilations from familiar labels.

Part of the problem is definitely a language barrier. When I studied Japanese in college, the alphabet was so foreign to me that I had to concoct these ridiculous scenarios to remember them. I needed to equate them to a visual identifier ("a yo-yo, a chair, etc."). When I listen to gamelan, my experience is rather imperialist... it reminds me of movies about exotic climes, or the spare percussion of early electronic music.

Salsa in the 70s worked similarly for me. The latin jazz phenomenon brought a lot of funk and swing to the sound, and I latched on to these aspects of the sound. I got a little overinterested in the songs Willie Bobo sang in English and "appreciated" the rest of them.

But with contemporary salsa, and much of contemporary latin music as a whole, I can't seem to find similar connections. When I think of how much good spanish music I've come across from the '70s, I can't help but think that there must be a similar wealth of contemporary spanish music. I've been introduced to a few singers through the cinema (Lila Downs, Jorge Drexler, Seu Jorge), or because they made a splash in the indie press (Lhasa de Sala, Cafe Tacuba).

The problem is: how do I find the good stuff? So many times some well-meaning spanish-speaking friend has introduced me to newer stuff and I'm disappointed — I fail to connect with the music on any level, and more often than not, the music just sounds awful to me.

So what can I conclude from this? I don't really know, I just wanted to get that off my chest.

polyphonic (polyphonic), Monday, 22 August 2005 05:23 (twenty years ago)

Didn't have tyme yet to read all Rockist's post. (And how does one do that; is it as simple as cutnpaste, once actually registered on ILX?).

I'm not sure I understand this. Actually, what happened is that apparently I wasn't able to paste the whole article in to the message space. Maybe there is a character limit. But there is a link to the full article.

Rockist_Scientist (hair by Joelle) (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 11:43 (twenty years ago)

Frank (and Don and Rockist etc), here's what I must have been thinking of (amazed I remember the source of this; also, not actually sure how absolutely accurate it is):

(In the course of a paragraph on the huge Latin influence on '50s through '70s rock:)

"...surf music, whose entire guitar style--the raison d'etre of the form--can be said to derive from 'Malenguena' and similar Mexican-American standards..."

-- Dave Marsh, "Rock & Roll's Latin Tinge," *The First Rock & Roll Confidential Report*, 1985

xhuxk, Monday, 22 August 2005 11:59 (twenty years ago)

polyphonic, I'm not sure what to say.

The problem is: how do I find the good stuff?

The same way you do it with anything else, I guess, though the language barrier obviously creates some obstacles: just dig in and start sifting through.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)

Re: Ricky Martin. I have to admit I may have been prejudiced by reading Arab music discussion boards where people were complaining about Amro Diab trying to adopt an image like Ricky Martin's. (I still think I heard some Arabic pop songs that sounded a lot like Ricky Martin.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:10 (twenty years ago)

(polyphonic, do you want one of my 2003/04 salsa mixes? I'm used to some people being underwhelmed by it by now, so you don't need to like it. Just e-mail me with your address if you want one.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)

new Ezequiel Peña album is awesome, it's all old Mexican rodeo songs, done up new (still mariachi-banda style but sound is tighter than Wallenda's wire) with super-cheesy horse sound effects! Hooray!

Also, on further review, that Banda el Recodo record is far and away the most exciting Latin (or maybe lose the qualifier) album of the year. It's banda music taken to its highest pointillist level, a true surrealistic pillar of sound, although still sublime pop music. Open yr mind to 18 musicians playing 10 different melodic lines.....

Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

Here's a good (and even somewhat experimental) song by Grupo Niche from a few years back:

http://s48.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34U293LKZAHQW12DQ29EFUKFE5

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:21 (twenty years ago)

Thanks, RS. I really appreciate the time you took to find and to post that article. (It's also nice to have the ideas one makes up while listening to music alone confirmed to some extent by someone who has actually done some work. I would probably have liked the article less if it didn't confirm my prejudices, although maybe I would have learned a lot more from it if that had been the case.)

How about the other direction? Do you have something up your sleeve about the fascination with Arab music and culture in Latin America (or, at least, Mexico)?

Vornado, Monday, 22 August 2005 12:24 (twenty years ago)

Thanks, RS. I really appreciate the time you took to find and to post that article.

Actually I found it serendipitously while searching for recordings of zajal music (a style I'm trying to find more information about--but apparently it involves singers improvising their songs, often, or maybe always, in competitions--probably not something that will carry over well to a non-Arabic speaker like me, but I'm still curious).

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:29 (twenty years ago)

Haikunym, or anyone, are there any worthwhile introductory compilations of Mexican music, in general, that you could recommend? (I realize that it's a hopeless project to get it all on one disc.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:31 (twenty years ago)

I don't know of any, except the one I'll make for you when you finally send me yr damn email address!

Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:33 (twenty years ago)

You mean my address address? I did send that. I will send it again using my "real" e-mail account. (Done.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 12:35 (twenty years ago)

hey rockist, i really like these comps (through 3 of them probably don't count):

*polkas de oro: conjunto! texas-mexican border music* (rounder, 1994)
*pachuco boogie featuring don tosti: historic mexian american music volume 10* (arhoolie, 2002)
*the roots of the narcocorrido* (arhoolie, 2004)
*tejano picante: tex-mex classics* (rhino, 2001)

there was also a really cool one-disc banda comp that came out last year, but i can't' find it; must be stacked up in the top of the closet somewhere.

matt/haiku, you should check out La Numero 1 Banda Jerez's new *Billete Verde*.

four more south-of-north-america guys i wish i would have given shout-outs to upthread: Carlinhos Brown, Omar Sosa, Millo Torres, Djavan. All of whom seem pretty good to my ears.

xhuxk, Monday, 22 August 2005 12:53 (twenty years ago)

also, i've never really been able to make it through Winter & Winter's beautifully packaged three-disc *Cuadernos de Mexico* compilation from a year or two ago (too folkloric for me, probably), but my girlfriend (who comes from southern Texas, speaks fluent Spanish, and lived in Mexico for a year) plays it a lot. (Has anybody ever done a thread on Winter & Winter's CD packaging, by the way? No other record label comes close, near as I can tell.)

xhuxk, Monday, 22 August 2005 13:00 (twenty years ago)

*pachuco boogie featuring don tosti: historic mexican american music volume 10* (arhoolie, 2002)

this is one of my favorite CDs ever!

Also, Chuck, Billete Verde is a great record, absolutely fun and cool. They cover Cafe Tacuba's "Ingrata" from Re as the last song, which is funny because a lot of Monterrey musicians (including El Gran Silencio) assumed that CT was making fun of norteño music with that song!

Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:02 (twenty years ago)

I have a LOT more use for Carlinhos Brown than for Djavan but they are both huge stars in Brasil who will probably never break through here. Everyone I play Alfagamabetizado for is just astounded that humans can make music that joyful and creepy.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:07 (twenty years ago)

>Omar Sosa<

Shit, man, alzheimer's is truly setting in early. Obviously I mentioned Omar upthread plenty. Anyway, there's somebody else I'm thinking of who I keep meaning to mention. Just can't think of who it is.

xhuxk, Monday, 22 August 2005 13:16 (twenty years ago)

I've been listening to a bunch of regional stuff lately, and I'll tell anyone looking for contention that, aside from the language barrier, my main difficulty is that IT ALL SOUNDS THE SAME! Or at least, not discernible in any meaningful way. Now, I realize that's not exactly true--I thought the same about country when I started listening to it back in high school--, but I can see where it's a definite challenge for anyone starting off.

That said, the regional Mexican stations probably have a higher percentage of just weird, arresting, wild shit happening than any other format. Incredible "tuba" lines, two-minute accordion solos, not to mention every Duranguense song where percussion is the lead instrument. (Matt C, I enjoyed your Montez reveiw in Stylus, by the way.) And the more I hear, the more I love all the extra little goodies that come with the polkas-that-all-sound-the-same.

So I've got two questions for you experts: How do you tell if a tuba's real or not? And what's the sociological origen of that annoying falsetto laugh that male singers break into about once an album? I wanna smack 'em and shout "Nobody's having THAT good a time!"

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:30 (twenty years ago)

Albums I can wholeheartedly recommend:
Alacranes Musical/ Banda Lamento Show--"Piquetes y Lamentos: Grandes Exitos" (polkas with lots and lots of extras, and completely freaked out tuba lines)
Diana Reyes--"La Reina del Pasito Duranguense" (pure pop for polka people)

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Monday, 22 August 2005 13:35 (twenty years ago)

Full disclosure: I wrote the liner notes and press release for this, but Essay Recordings' forthcoming compilation, Coconut FM - compiled by Uwe Schmidt (Atom Heart, Señor Coconut) is a fantastic collection of pan-Latin music, all roughly "electronic," but very much discernibly "Latin." The three genres covered are cumbia, reggaeton, and funk carioca (which makes, admittedly, for a bit of an odd combination). One of the things that I find most successful about the comp is that it essentially obliterates the line between overground and underground, mainstream and leftfield. On the one hand there's Colombia's Gladys and Argentina's Negreton serving up sounds you could hear on any radio station south or north of the US's southern border (in fact, I've been hearing Negreton's "Dile" getting caned on La Kalle), and then on the other hand there's weird, tierra-de-nadie fare from people like the Netherlands' Dick El Demasiado (someone please tell me more about this guy, I've been trying to find his music to no avail) and Atom Heart's own contribution in the form of "aciton" (aka acid reggaeton). And Peter Rap's "Punta," the first Chilean reggaeton I've heard, is just jawdropping. Essay also put out that Rio Baile Funk: Favela Booty Beats CD which seemed to find its way to a lot of ears not attached to conventional listeners of Latin music, so I'm hoping this one gets heard by a broad spectrum as well.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:46 (twenty years ago)

That sounds like a useful compilation.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

I only get a blank page when I try clicking on the Dick El Demasiado link, but maybe that's your point.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

RS is a hard man to please, but his own comps are awesome, like his montster pan-Arabic/Spanish post: outdid yrself there, O Science One!)(what I meant was, I've never managed to cutnpast a post on here, that's all). As well as the Muslim* influence carrying Spanish-associated tinge in Arabic music, there's the gypsy; like Django Reinhardt was Belgian, wasn't he? And based in Paris (like the Gipsy Kings?) But a big influence on the surf ect-to psych Latin tinge, partly cos professional guitarists had to use what they'd had to study, had to know when to use any/all of it (and not forgetting "bored enough to fuck with it": immortal Christgauvian phrase re so much good bad x ugly)Oh yeah, and somebody on the Um Khalthoum thread pointed out how the Arabic organ on some of her records sound "psychedelic," and I've heard others, recorded before and after hers, that do the same. And one more for Jimmy Page, Satanic Sponge of Santana (who got more than "Black Magic Woman" from Peter Green) and so much else, well-chosen under thee gypsy Sun as well as Moon (and I prefer *"Muslim" to "Isalmist," which has come to be associated with ideology per se, rightly or wrongly, though obviously "Muslim" can be taken to mean religion per se, when in both cases they may be meant as a complex of cultural aspects. These times is fukced.),As far as Roberts' original Spanish Tinge thesis (also re what I said about Latin being intermitttanly popular), he and I mean Latin acknowledged/accepted as such, not present as covert/implicit/unacknowledged in James Brown and whatever kid imitates somebody else's imitation of Page's folding in this'n'that (and then comes into the store and asks me, "what's blues?" Not that uncommon, even here in the Deep but not nec. Profound South)

don, Monday, 22 August 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

Anybody heard Ry Cooder's Chávez Ravine yet? And if you have, would you even be willing to admit to liking it? (It does seem to be getting pretty good reviews.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

I guess it might be annoying to VV people that this has become our de facto all purpose Latin music thread. Sorry.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

I keep thinking I'll check out Chavez Ravine, but then that same damn song keeps popping up on various NPR programs, back- if not foreground, they loves it (identifies with it?): "Poor Man's Shangri-La," with a gooey vocal to go with the gooey title and concept (something about a funky UFO swinging low to check out our funki 'hood, although I put it better than the song does). Lots of input from apt, otherwise-new-as-hell-to-me venerable worthies, apparently, but could be one of those Ry albums mainly useful as a taste of something better. (Might do just as well to be guided by the very carefully detailed Chavez review, with links and some soundbites, posted at allmusic.com). But as you say, it's gotten very good reviews, far as I've seen. (Though Ry went on Xgau's shitlist long ago). I've heard bits of other songs from it, seems like it would be worth trip to listening bar(If that album weren't the only one you were going for, which it prob wouldn't be, Ah suspect.)

don, Monday, 22 August 2005 22:39 (twenty years ago)

I didn't like BVSC that much (though I've liked bits of it more when I've heard them recently) and I didn't like Mambo Sinuendo at all, so it's not like a high priority for me.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 22 August 2005 22:53 (twenty years ago)

Subsequent Buena Vister solo tracks (haven't heard whole albums, just what's on Afropop and other NPR) sound better to me than the BVSC sessions.

don, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 02:49 (twenty years ago)

But that's what I meant about Ry's albums (good and bad, or not-so-good): they can lead you to better stuff. Lalo Guerrero is on Chavez, and the stuff of his I've heard since then is amazing (speaking of pachuco boogie, for instance). He died recently, but you might check around for online samples of his '05 release, Sus Ardillitas.

don, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

1. re prev. mention of Senor Coconut: heard what I guess is an early one, Kraftwerkmuzik, South Of The Border (not the actual title). Liked it, didn't know how to write about it, suggested to pub send one to Frank. He said he had, but Frank thought it was too corny. And he's studied with John Santos, but I still like it. (Though not enough to remember the title, evidently)
2. Good 'un by Jon Caramancia in 8/21 Times, "Funny, It Doesn't Sound Jewish": reissues of Irving Fields Trio's Bagels And Bongos ("Mr. Fields, now 90 [ got a steady gig, too]began singing Jewish music at age 10, in the choir of renowned cantor Yosele Rosenblatt. By the age of 18, he was touring the Caribbean as a tour ship pianist, soaking up rhythms--rumba, pasodole, cha-cha, merengue, and so on--from stops in Cuba and Puerto Rico.") Bagels And Bongos is pretty tight, pretty tuneful, just a bit zany: can see why it was a hit in the 50s (when living was clean, and LSD was legal). Same label (links to site & soundbites in article) will also re-release Fiddler On The Roof Goes Latin,1965 album by Joe Quijano.

don, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

I started a thread about that NYT article.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

>Senor Coconut: heard what I guess is an early one, Kraftwerkmuzik, South Of The Border (not the actual title). <

Wow, I hated this -- just total kitsch shtick, near as I could tell.

xhuxk, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 16:56 (twenty years ago)

Not like original Kraftwerk versions,in that regard(Or...is it..?..h'mmm...)

don, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

Chavez Ravine is, on paper, the greatest record of all time. On actual disc, though, it starts going bad on track #2. (I like "Poor Man's Shangri-La.") Ry is not smart enough to keep his concepts tight, but he's got good taste in sidepeople (including the great Don "Pachuco Boogie" Tosti as an alien later in the disc!) and his heart is in the right place. Just can't quite pull this off, although I could have made it a better record had he asked me what to do. (For example, don't have an obscure Hawaiian dude sing a song about being a Mexican dude displaced by Dodger Stadium.) The covers are really good tho.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 17:17 (twenty years ago)

I've never been a huge fan of the Señor Coconut stuff, but their live show, done with a full band, was really impressive. For what it's worth I don't think it's "total kitsch shtick" at alll, certainly not as much as Nouvelle Vague or, say, A.R.E. Weapons (sorry, just baiting, Chuck) - Uwe's interested in seeing what happens when styles collide in unexpected ways. There was a schtick, of course - contrasting the "cold" Teutonic demeanor with the "hot" Latin one - but I don't think that was the be-all and end-all of the project. Anyway, the Coconut FM comp has nothing to do with the Señor Coconut project, aside from the name.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 23 August 2005 17:29 (twenty years ago)

Hey(for more debate on this kind of thing, see the Ari Up thread, re her German/Brit/Jamacoid patois, which doesn't bother me, although haven't been subjected to her "room-clearing" live schtick, also discussed on thread)(but fuck me [please], I even kinda like Carlinhos Brown with Sepultra. As well as his own albums--anybody heard Tribalistas, though? CB with Antunes and Marisa Monte, and I heard it was more of her album, really, so haven't gotten it, since I didn't like Rose And Charcoal much as I thought I would, despite or perhaps because of its Byrne input)(I really like his Brazil Classics series, though)(and some of his [or anyway Luaka Bop's]World Psychedelic Classics 3:Love's A Real Thing's 70s African funk combos seem to be listening to 70s Latin,re-reworking the African and other elements of that), Chuck, or anybody, also been meaning to ask: How's N.Zumbi without Chico Science? (Speaking of yr. RIP, o shit, he was a loss.)

don, Tuesday, 23 August 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times
All Rights Reserved
Los Angeles Times

August 24, 2005 Wednesday

SECTION: CALENDAR; Calendar Desk; Part E; Pg. 1

LENGTH: 3121 words

HEADLINE: NEW NAMES RULE AT LATIN GRAMMYS; Rising artists are saluted while several major stars are shortchanged in nominations. Cuban music takes a back seat.

BYLINE: Agustin Gurza, Times Staff Writer

Bebe, a Spanish singer-songwriter who's relatively unknown in the U.S., made a surprise showing Tuesday with five nominations in the sixth annual Latin Grammy Awards, making her the only performer to be recognized in all the major categories.

No other artist received more than three nominations in the awards, which were announced Tuesday at a star-filled news conference at the Henry Fonda Theater in Hollywood that was attended by Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa.

Bebe garnered nominations for album of the year for her quietly forceful debut collection, "Pafuera Telaranas," or "Out With the Cobwebs," as well as song and record of the year for "Malo," an understated but devastating critique of abusive men. She also was nominated in the female pop vocal and best new artist categories.

Bebe's showing continues the Latin Grammy tradition of eschewing familiar candidates in favor of talented new discoveries. Bebe, the daughter of Spanish folk singers, now has a chance to follow in the footsteps of fellow singer-songwriter Juanes, who was unknown outside his native Colombia four years ago when he was catapulted to stardom with seven nominations in the awards.

Juanes continued his own Latin Grammy streak Tuesday with three nominations for his hit album "Mi Sangre." That collection was also cited among the eclectic work of Los Angeles-based producer Gustavo Santaolalla in his nomination for producer of the year. The Argentine-born Santaolalla also wrote the soundtrack to "The Motorcycle Diairies," an adventure film about the young Che Guevara. The film also yielded a song-of the-year nod for Jorge Drexler's Oscar-winning original song, "Al Otro Lado del Rio."

Other artists with three nominations each were pop-salsa singer Marc Anthony, Miami-based teenage rocker JD Natasha, New York-based singer-songwriter Obie Bermudez and Mexican pop-rock singer Aleks Syntek.

The disappointment for U.S. Latin music fans may be the relatively weak showing by reggaeton star Daddy Yankee, the biggest name in the hybrid Latin hip-hop genre that represents the hottest domestic trend in Latin music since Ricky Martin and the Latin explosion of 1999.

Yankee was nominated in only one major category, record of the year, for his catchy dance hit "Gasolina," a nomination shared by the crack reggaeton producing duo Luny Tunes. "Barrio Fino," Yankee's critically acclaimed album, received only a single nomination, in the urban music category.

The slight to reggaeton underscores the fact that the Latin Grammys, though U.S.-based, are not an American franchise. In the last five years, the Latin Recording Academy has conducted a concerted membership drive in the
Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking world. Today the organization's international makeup is reflected in the diverse array of nominated artists from many genres and many nations.

"I always find that democracy is very unpredictable," said Gabriel Abaroa, president of the Latin Recording Academy. "What is clear is that members vote very much not on trends but on whatever they feel is worthy, without any external influence."

This year, academy members are also more likely to get an awards show that reflects their musical values, not those of the U.S.

For the first time, the ceremony will not be televised by CBS. The network was frequently criticized for its attempt to promote primarily Spanish music to a mainstream English-speaking audience, a strategy that yielded duets with Anglo performers who were recruited for ratings rather than artistry.

The 2005 awards show is scheduled to air Nov. 3 from Los Angeles' Shrine Auditorium on the Spanish-language Univision network. The move frees the producers from the need to seek hosts and presenters who speak English and who may be familiar to U.S. television viewers. It also allows the show to grow from two to three hours, making more time for performances.

When the awards debuted at Staples Center five years ago, the lineup of performers consciously included names well known to the non-Latino public, such as Ricky Martin, Gloria Estefan and Tito Puente, all from the East Coast.

At the time, Mexican artists popular on the West Coast complained that they were not fairly represented in the show, even though they account for a majority of Latin record sales in the U.S.

This year for the first time, says Abaroa, a Mexican music act has won a nomination in a major category. Intocable, a group from Texas, is nominated for album of the year for "Diez" ("Ten"), which is also up for best
\o7norteno\f7 album.

Other Mexican music acts getting two nominations each are \o7ranchero \f7crooner Pepe Aguilar, Long Beach rabble-rouser Lupillo Rivera and Mexico's mariachi king Vicente Fernandez and his son Alejandro Fernandez.

By contrast, Cuban artists have taken a back seat in the awards this year.
From the beginning of the awards, Cubans were the focus of protests by anti-Castro forces opposed to their appearance at the Latin Grammy ceremony. This year, they are only modestly represented in the nominations, reflecting a cooling off of the Cuban music scene.

Voters also shortchanged the latest work by modern \o7vallenato\f7 star Carlos Vives, one of the most popular and engaging artists from Colombia.
Vives was nominated in two categories, contemporary tropical album for "El Rock de Mi Pueblo" and best tropical song for "Como Tu."

Mayor Villaraigosa kicked off the nomination announcements with the best new artist category, in which women were well represented. Besides Bebe and Natasha, the field includes Diana Navarro and Ilona, a singer-songwriter who began her career performing on buses in her native Colombia.

In addition to Bebe and Intocable, the album of the year field includes Bermudez for "Todo el Ano" ("All Year"), Brazilian Ivan Lins for "Cantando Historias" ("Singing Stories") and Argentine Diego Torres for "MTV Unplugged."

Rounding out the nominations for record of the year are "Amor del Bueno"
("Good Loving") by Mexico's Reyli, "Duele el Amor" ("Love Hurts") by Syntek con Ana Torroja and "Tu No Tienes Alma" ("You Have No Soul") by Spain's perennial Grammy winner Alejandro Sanz.

The awards are determined by the 4,000 voting members of the Latin Recording Academy. Records that are at least 50% in Spanish or Portuguese and were released between April 1, 2004, and March 31, 2005, are eligible.

Latin Grammys

Where: Shrine Auditorium,

665 W. Jefferson Blvd., L.A.; (213) 749-5123

When: 8 p.m. Nov. 3

Broadcast: Live on Univision

Running time: 3 hours

*

List of nominees

GENERAL FIELD

\o7Record of the year

\f7"Malo," Bebe (Carlos Jean, producer; Jose Luis Crespo & Raul Quilez, engineers-mixers); "Gasolina," Daddy Yankee (Luny Tunes, producers; Echo, Hyde & Luny Tunes, engineers-mixers); "Amor del Bueno," Reyli (Mario Domm & Reyli, producers; Gabriel Castanon, Luis Cortez, Mario Domm, Humberto Gatica, Luis Gil & Alex Rodriguez, engineers-mixers); "Tu No Tienes Alma,"
Alejandro Sanz (Lulo Perez & Alejandro Sanz, producers; Carlos Alvarez, Rafa Sardina & Oscar Vinader, engineers-mixers); "Duele el Amor," Aleks Syntek con Ana Torroja (Aleks Syntek, producer; Armando Avila, Aureo Baqueiro, Miguel Castro, Luis Gil, Juan Carlos Moguel, Carlos Murgia & Aleks Syntek, engineers-mixers)

\o7Album of the year

\f7"Pafuera Telaranas," Bebe (Carlos Jean, producer; Jose Luis Crespo & Raul Quilez, engineers-mixers; Jose Luis Crespo, mastering engineer); "Todo el Ano," Obie Bermudez (Sebastian Krys & Joel Someillan, producers; Mike Couzzi, Javier Garza, Sebastian Krys & Joel Someillan, engineers-mixers; Antonio Baglio, mastering engineer); "Diez," Intocable (Pepe Aguilar, Carlos Cabral Jr., Jason Cano, Alex Espinoza, Chuy Flores, Kinky, Jorge Lares Amaro, Rene Martinez, Ricardo Munoz & Sacha Triujeque, producers; Isaias G. Asbun, Seth Horan Atkins, Carlos Castro, Gilberto Elguezabal, Chuy Flores, Rene Garza, Norberto Islas, Jorge Lares Amaro, Justin Leah, Marco Ramirez, Jack Saenz III & Sacha Triujeque, engineers-mixers; Don Tyler, mastering engineer); "Cantando Historias," Ivan Lins (Moogie Canazio, producer; Moogie Canazio, engineer-mixer; Moogie Canazio & Luiz Tornaghi, mastering engineers); "MTV Unplugged," Diego Torres (Diego Torres & Afo Verde, producers; Gustavo Borner, engineer-mixer; Gustavo Borner, mastering engineer)

\o7Song of the year

\f7"Al Otro Lado del Rio," Jorge Drexler, songwriter (Jorge Drexler); "Duele el Amor," Aleks Syntek, songwriter (Aleks Syntek con Ana Torroja); "Malo," Bebe, songwriter (Bebe); "Todo el Ano," Obie Bermudez & Elsten C.
Torres, songwriters (Obie Bermudez); "Tu no Tienes Alma," Alejandro Sanz, songwriter (Alejandro Sanz)

\o7Best new artist

\f7Bebe; Ilona; JD Natasha; Diana Navarro; Reik

POP

\o7Best female pop vocal album

\f7"Pafuera Telaranas," Bebe; "Andrea Echeverri," Andrea Echeverri; "La Fuerza del Destino," Fey; "Escucha," Laura Pausini; "El Otro Lado de Mi,"
Soraya

\o7Best male pop vocal album

\f7"Amar Sin Mentiras," Marc Anthony; "Todo el Ano," Obie Bermudez; "Stop,"
Franco de Vita; "A Corazon Abierto," Alejandro Fernandez; "Razon de Sobra,"
Marco Antonio Solis

\o7Best pop album by a duo

or group with vocal

\f7"Pajaros en la Cabeza," Amaral; "Desde Mi Barrio," Andy & Lucas; "Sinverguenza," Bacilos; "Elefante," Elefante; "Postales," Presuntos Implicados

URBAN

\o7Best urban music album

\f7"Barrio Fino," Daddy Yankee; "The Last Don -- Live," Don Omar; "The Kings of the Beats," Luny Tunes; "El Kilo," Orishas; "Desahogo," Vico C

ROCK

\o7Best rock solo vocal album

\f7"El Viaje a Ninguna Parte," Bunbury; "Imperfecta-Imperfect," JD Natasha; "Mi Sangre," Juanes; "Mi Vida con Ellas," Fito Paez; "Mestizo," Revolver

\o7Best rock album by a Duo

or Group With Vocal

\f7"En Vivo," Enanitos Verdes; "Un Metro Cuadrado," Jarabe de Palo; "Musica Pa'l Pueblo," Locos por Juana; "Con Todo Respeto," Molotov; "Estelar,"
Volumen Cero

\o7Best alternative music album

\f7"En el Cielo de Tu Boca," Circo; "Sweet & Sour, Hot y Spicy," Ely Guerra; "The Venezuelan Zinga Son Vol. 1," Los Amigos Invisibles; "Street Signs," Ozomatli; "Ecolecua," Rabanes

\o7Best rock song

\f7"Bienvenido al Anochecer," Beto Cuevas, songwriter (La Ley); "Lagrimas,"
Martin Chan & JD Natasha, songwriters (JD Natasha); "Nada Valgo Sin tu Amor," Juanes, songwriter (Juanes); "Polaroid de Ordinaria Locura," Fito Paez, songwriter (Fito Paez); "Un Accidente," J. L. Abreu & Egui Santiago, songwriters (Circo)

\o7Best salsa album

\f7"Valio la Pena," Marc Anthony; "Asi Soy...," Oscar D'Leon; "Aqui Estamos y... ¡De Verdad!," El Gran Combo de Puerto Rico; "Autentico," Gilberto Santa Rosa; "Across 110th Street," Spanish Harlem Orchestra

\o7Best merengue album

\f7"Saborealo," Elvis Crespo; "En Vivo 2004," Los Toros Band; "Celebra Conmigo," Kinito Mendez; "Generaciones," Ramon Orlando; "Resistire," Tono Rosario

\o7Best contemporary tropical album

\f7"Bacha," Bacha; "Chapeando," Juan Formell y Los Van Van; "Hasta el Fin,"
Monchy & Alexandra; "Sin Miedo," Michael Stuart; "Cuba le Canta a Serrat,"
various artists (Vivian Armenteros Rodriguez & Joan Surribas, producers); "El Rock de Mi Pueblo," Carlos Vives

\o7Best traditional tropical album

\f7"¡Ahora Si!," Cachao; "Nostalgia," Manny Manuel; "Buena Vista Social Club Presents: Manuel Guajiro Mirabal," Manuel "El Guajiro" Mirabal; "Flor de Amor," Omara Portuondo; "Tradicion," Tropicana All Stars

\o7Best tropical song

\f7"Ahora Si," Cachao, songwriter (Cachao); "Bandolero," Jose Luis Morin A.
& Olga Tanon, songwriters (Olga Tanon); "Como Tu," Carlos I. Medina & Carlos Vives, songwriters (Carlos Vives); "Las Avispas," Juan Luis Guerra, songwriter (Juan Luis Guerra 4 40); "Valio la Pena," Marc Anthony & Estefano, songwriters (Marc Anthony)

SINGER-SONGWRITER

\o7Best singer-songwriter album

\f7"Vaidade," Djavan; "Bolsillos," Pedro Guerra; "City Zen," Kevin Johansen; "Resucitar," Gian Marco; "Los Rayos," Vicentico

REGIONAL MEXICAN

\o7Best ranchero album

\f7"No Soy de Nadie," Pepe Aguilar; "Alma Ranchera," Rocio Durcal; "Vicente Fernandez y Sus Corridos Consentidos," Vicente Fernandez; "Tradicional,"
Ana Gabriel; "Mexico en la Piel," Luis Miguel

\o7Best banda album

\f7"En Vivo," Banda El Recodo de Cruz Lizarraga; "Los Numero Uno del Pasito Duranguense," Conjunto Atardecer; "Pensando en Ti," K-Paz de la Sierra; "Locos de Amor," Los Horoscopos de Durango; "Con Mis Propias Manos,"
Lupillo Rivera

\o7Best grupero album

\f7"Loca de Amar," Ana Barbara; "Sin Riendas," Bronco / El Gigante de America; "Para el Pueblo," Oscar De La Rosa y La Mafia; "Olvidarte Nunca,"
Guardianes del Amor; "Sigo Pensando en Ti," Volumen X

\o7Best Tejano album

\f7"Polkas, Gritos y Acordeones," David Lee Garza, Joel Guzman & Sunny Sauceda; "Solo Contigo," David Lee Garza y Los Musicales; "Para Mi Gente,"
Jimmy Gonzalez y Grupo Mazz; "Milagro," La Tropa F; "Vive," Bobby Pulido

\o7Best norteno album

\f7"Hoy Como Ayer," Conjunto Primavera; "Diez," Intocable; "Atrevete," Los Palominos; "Directo al Corazon," Los Tigres del Norte; "El Zurdo de Oro,"
Michael Salgado

\o7Best regional Mexican song

\f7"Aire," Josue Contreras & Johnny Lee Rosas, songwriters (Intocable); "Corazon Dormido," Freddie Martinez Sr., songwriter (Jimmy Gonzalez y Grupo Mazz); "Me Vuelvo Loco," Edel Ramirez, songwriter (Los Palominos); "Na Na Na (Dulce Nina)," Luigi Giraldo, Cruz "ck" Martinez & A.B. Quintanilla III, songwriters (A.B. Quintanilla III Presents Kumbia Kings)

\o7Best instrumental album

\f7"Nuevos Caminos," Manuel Alejandro; "Ed Calle Plays Santana," Ed Calle; "Tiple Jazz," Pedro Guzman; "Paseo," Gonzalo Rubalcaba & New Cuban Quartet; "Coral," David Sanchez

TRADITIONAL

\o7Best folk album

\f7"Misa Criolla -- Navidad Nuestra de Ariel Ramirez," Camerata Coral y Grupo Tepeu; "One Blood Una Sangre," Lila Downs; "Noche Amiga Mia," Los Nocheros; "Para Ellos," John Santos y El Coro Folklorico Kindembo; "Homenaje a Luis Miranda 'El Pico de Oro'," Varios Artistas (Quique Domenech, producer).

\o7Best tango album

\f7"Hybrid Tango," Hybrid Tango; "De Tango Somos," Nicolas Ledesma Cuarteto; "Buenos Aires, Viaje / Buenos Aires Journey," Adriana Nano; "Solo Para Dos," Trelles & Cirigliano; "Bajo Cero," Pablo Ziegler, Quique Sinesi & Walter Castro

\o7Best flamenco album

\f7"Mi ADN Flamenco," Diego Carrasco; "Confi de Fua," Jose Merce; "Andando el Tiempo," Gerardo Nunez con Paolo Fresu, Perico Sambeat y Mariano Diaz; "No Hay Quinto Malo," Nina Pastori; "Aguadulce," Tomatito

JAZZ

\o7Best latin jazz album

\f7"Mi Tambor," Paoli Mejias; "The Body Acoustic," Bob Mintzer, Giovanni Hidalgo, Andy Gonzalez, David Chesky & Randy Brecker; "Piano / Drums / Bass," Negroni's Trio; "Poncho at Montreux," Poncho Sanchez; "Bebo de Cuba
-- Suite Cubana -- el Solar de Bebo -- Cuadernos de Nueva York," Bebo Valdes

CHRISTIAN

\o7Best Christian album

(Spanish language)

\f7"Viento Mas Fuego," Marco Barrientos; "Para Ti," Juan Luis Guerra 4 40; "Luz en Mi Vida," Pablo Olivares; "Dia de Independencia," Rojo; "Tiempo de Navidad," Marcos Witt

\o7Best Christian album

(Portuguese language)

\f7"Som de Adoradores -- Ao Vivo," Aline Barros; "Terremoto -- Ao Vivo,"
Eyshila; "Para Orar e Adorar 3 -- Ouco Deus Me Chamar," Ludmila Ferber; "Deixa o Teu Rio Me Levar -- ao Vivo," Soraya Moraes; "Para o Mundo Ouvir,"
Rose Nascimento; "Alem do Que os Olhos Podem Ver," Oficina G3; "Cantando, Dancando e Louvando!," Alexandre Soul

BRAZILIAN

\o7Best Brazilian contemporary pop album

\f7\o7

\f7"El Milagro de Candeal," Carlinhos Brown; "MTV ao Vivo," Rita Lee; "Incite," Lenine; "Estudando o Pagode -- Na Opereta Segregamulher e Amor,"
Tom Ze

\o7Best Brazilian rock album

\f7"Barao Vermelho," Barao Vermelho; "Tamo Ai Na Atividade," Charlie Brown Jr.; "Leela," Leela; "Tianastacia ao Vivo," Tianastacia

\o7Best samba / pagode album

\f7"Ao Vivo 3," Jorge Aragao; "A Madrinha do Samba / Ao Vivo Convida," Beth Carvalho; "Brasilatinidade," Martinho da Vila; "Brasao de Orfeu," Wilson das Neves; "Partido ao Cubo," Nei Lopes; "A Vera," Zeca Pagodinho

\o7Best MPB (musica popular

Brasileira) album

\f7"Eletracustico," Gilberto Gil; "Joao Gilberto in Tokyo," Joao Gilberto; "Com o Pe no Forro," Toninho Horta; "Banda Maluca," Joyce; "Cantando Historias," Ivan Lins

\o7Best romantic music album

\f7\o7

\f7"Pra Sempre ao Vivo no Pacaembu," Roberto Carlos; "Donos do Brasil,"
Raimundo Fagner; "Leonardo Canta Grandes Sucessos," Leonardo; "Alma Sertaneja," Roberta Miranda; "Alto Falante," Alexandre Pires

\o7Best Brazilian roots / regional album

\f7"Gaitapontocom," Renato Borghetti; "Recado a Sao Paulo," Caju & Castanha; "Cada Um Belisca Um Pouco," Dominguinhos, Sivuca & Oswaldinho; "Os Maiores Sucessos de Sao Joao," Forrocacana; "O Canto da Sereia," Gil; "Baiao de Dois," Elba Ramalho e Dominguinhos; "MTV ao Vivo," Ivete Sangalo

\o7Best Brazilian song

(Portuguese language)

\f7"Cancao Transparente," Francis Hime & Olivia Hime, songwriters (Olivia Hime); "Ninguem Faz Ideia," Lenine & Ivan Santos, songwriters (Lenine); "Ponte Aerea," Jose Miguel Wisnik, songwriter (Eveline Hecker); "Sao Sebastiao," Totonho Villeroy, songwriter (Totonho Villeroy)

CHILDREN'S

\o7Best Latin children's album

\f7\o7

\f7"La Fiesta Continua!!!," Christell; "Floricienta y Su Banda,"
Floricienta; "Ke Zafados," Ke Zafados; "Poder Payasonico," Los Payasonicos; "Lina Luna," Lina Luna; "Aventura y Amor," Mision S.O.S.

CLASSICAL

\o7Best classical album

\f7"Fantasia Brasileira," Orquestra de Camara Rio Strings; David Chew & Andre Oliveira, producers; "Glazunov Symphony Nº 5 / The Seasons," Jose Serebrier; Tim Oldham, producer; "Homo Ludens," Leo Brouwer; Leo Brouwer & Isabelle Hernandez, producers; "Riberas," Cuarteto de Cuerdas Buenos Aires & Paquito D'Rivera; Andrea Merenzon, producer; "Rodrigo Concierto de Aranjuez / Villa Lobos: Concerto for Guitar / Ponce: Concierto del Sur,"
Sharon Isbin; Tobias Lehmann, producer

PRODUCTION

\o7Best engineered album

\f7"Diez," Chuy Flores & Jack Saenz III, engineers (Intocable); "Fuego,"
Seth Atkins, Javier Garza, Cruz "ck" Martinez & Robert "Bobbo" Martinez, engineers (A.B. Quintanilla III Presents Kumbia Kings); "MTV Unplugged,"
Gustavo Borner, engineer (Diego Torres); "Street Signs," Robert Carranza, Serban Ghenea & Anton Pukshansky, engineers (Ozomatli); "Velvetina,"
Antonio Cortes, engineer (Miguel Bose).

\o7Producer of the year

\f7\o7

\f7Paco de Lucia; Sergio George; Sebastian Krys; Gustavo Santaolalla; Afo Verde

MUSIC VIDEO

\o7Best music video (one song only)

\f7"Volverte a Ver," Juanes (Gustavo Garzon, video director; Cecilia Sagredo, video producer); "Mirate," La Ley (Gustavo Garzon, video director; Sweet Dreams, video producer); "Amateur," Molotov (Rogelio Sikander, video director; The Maestros, video producer); "A Veces Fui," Aleks Syntek (Esteban Madrazo, video director; Mediamates, video producer); "Los Caminos de la Vida," Vicentico (Pucho Mentasti, video director; Pucho Mentasti, video producer)

steve k, Thursday, 25 August 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

Juan Luis Guerra did a great version of Latin Grammy tropical song nominated "Las Avispas," (the wasps or bees)when I saw him him at the MCI Center in DC.

steve k, Thursday, 25 August 2005 04:49 (twenty years ago)

Strange that the Times didn't even consider Shakira conspicuous by her absence. Or was her album released too late to be eligible?

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:41 (twenty years ago)

I'm sad but not surprised that Belinda, from the pop-rock end of the spectrum, didn't get nominated. Too blatantly appealing, I guess.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Thursday, 25 August 2005 05:49 (twenty years ago)

Records that are at least 50% in Spanish or Portuguese and were released between April 1, 2004, and March 31, 2005, are eligible.

Fijación Oral didn't come out until June. The Latin Grammy "year" is odd. Is it the same with the Grammys?

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 25 August 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

Grammys draw from October through September, which seems less weird than having over half your eligibility in the previous year.

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:13 (twenty years ago)

Haikunym's fave album of the year En Vivo," by Banda El Recodo de Cruz Lizarraga got nominated for Banda album of the year.

Frank, is Belinda "blatantly appealing" in a way that Grammy nominated "Miami-based teenage rocker JD Natasha" (whom I don't know--but I'm just asking) is not? Daddy Yankee got a token nod I see.

steve-k, Thursday, 25 August 2005 12:55 (twenty years ago)

I haven't even heard "En Vivo"! I don't know why I never got that one, I've been on Univision's mailing list for yonks. My new obsession is their studio album, "Hay Amor," which just hit the Wal-Marts and Circuit Citys of America a little bit ago.

And yeah, Shakira's album will be all nominated and stuff next year. In the meantime, glad but not surprised to see that Intocable got some nods, that is a great album.

Oh and let's play analogies: Lenine is the Juanes of Brazil. JD Natasha is the Avril Lavigne of young Latinas. Bebe is...man, I ain't never heard no Bebe's Songs. ("We don't die, we multiply!)

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 25 August 2005 13:02 (twenty years ago)

I want to rant about the salsa selections, but I don't feel that strongly about any of the (salsa) albums that have come out in this time period. I've heard good songs from all the albums nominated (except the D'Leon).

In merengue, I like some of what I've heard by Krisspy and Amarfis who I think have both put out albums in the time frame covered (though I'm not positive). Haven't heard any of the merengue that's nominated.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 25 August 2005 13:14 (twenty years ago)

It's nice to see Body Acoustic on the list of Latin jazz nominations, even if I find it too samey to listen to all the way through.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 25 August 2005 13:17 (twenty years ago)

Is there any meaningful musical difference anymore among banda, tejano, and norteno? I know there are some historical differences, but it all sounds very, very similar to me. OK, if it has a bunch of horns and is a little fast, it's probably banda, especially if the group has "banda" in its name. And most of the time I can tell whether something is supposed to be tejano or norteno by the group name, too. That's it. Am I deaf or something?

Vornado, Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

banda is big-band music, many horns interacting, syncopation, muchas tubas, etc., with singing.

norteño is smaller-band, simpler, and very often focused on corridos and/or narcocorridos.

tejano is more americanized (as you might imagine from the name), pop with elements rather than elements with pop, if you catch my drift.

Haikunym (Haikunym), Thursday, 25 August 2005 14:10 (twenty years ago)

So reggaeton is mainly popular in El Norte? Guess Daddy Yankee's a good name, even if he's from further South than I am. Tom Ze nominated in Pop! Alright; I hear him in there between August Darnell and Beefheart (and Moondog)--he's got the tunes.

don, Thursday, 25 August 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Tom Ze nominated for pop is pretty funny. I haven't listened to anything of his since that first Luaka Bop release many moons back.

Carlos Vives was pretty impressive the other night outside DC. The '80s style arena rock guitar solos were a tad disconcerting, but his pop melodies and the speedy rhythms from the acoustic members of the band(accordion, congas, andean flutes, a bamboo tube thing that's scraped) were top-notch. Vives and Juan Luis Guerra (who was mahvelous live earlier this year) deserve more crossover attention.

steve k, Sunday, 28 August 2005 04:14 (twenty years ago)

I bet Haikunym(Matt C) likes Vives and Luis-Guerra(maybe Don A. too, but maybe not RS, but who knows)...Now if only some of my other fave writer folks like Sasha Frere Jones, and V. Voice folks, and Julianne Shepherd, and Kogan and Keith Harris and Matos would jump on the train...Some of 'em could be at the Garden tonight seeing Vives and Daddy Yankee.

Regarding reggaeton mainly being a North American and Caribbean thing, I believe I just read that Daddy Yankee's "Gasolina" is now in the UK charts. DJ Rupture/aka blogger Jace Mudd Up Clayton lives in Spain now and he likes reggaeton, but I don't recall whether he's said that he hears it around Espana.

steve k, Sunday, 28 August 2005 04:29 (twenty years ago)

Vives is a little too MOR for most of the people here. I adore him. His basic project is to fuse all of the various types of music played in Colombia, including vallenato, rock, R&B, Andean flutes, salsa, calypso/zouk, cumbia, and pop, to create a (wishful thinking)metaphor of a nation that can live peacefully in its diversity and can move into the future with a base in the past, etc. That seems very (North) American to me: much like Los Lobos or The Band, but swinging for the commercial fences with a matinee-idol singer. In any event, I love his rocked-up vallenatos, and I love at least some of his non-vallenato songs.

I think Vives does get crossover attention, and he certainly has the Estefan Seal of Approval. But to some extent I think it is hard for him to find a niche precisely because his music doesn't sound like any other Hispanic music and doesn't fit into the most popular categories (salsa, various types of Mexican music, ska-punk) or seem folkloric enough for those who want that straight.

I actually own 6 or 7 Vives records, but I haven't bought the last one (yet: I may still get around to it). His best albums are, in developmental order, Classicos de Provincia (all rocked-up classic vallenatos), La Tierra Del Olvido (half rocky traditional vallenatos, half wholly original material, this album is really the golden mean), and El Amor De Mi Tierra (much like Tierra Del Olvido, but with a lot more production, more original material, and a lot more salsa touches.

Vornado, Sunday, 28 August 2005 04:38 (twenty years ago)

I'm not a Vives fan, but he does feel like part of my Latin music world (albeit, on the peripherally), because I originally heard his music in a club setting (rather than reading something and checking his music out one way or another). I'm a total sucker for "Fruta Fusca" and like a couple other songs from El Amor de Mi Tierra, but nothing else I've heard by Vives (not that it's so much) has made an impression. I think Vornado is probably correct. I don't see Vives as being a likely candidate for big crossover success (in the U.S. anyway), especially with his softer sounding material. Even though he's not strictly folkloric, what I've heard from him is still close enough to being folkloric that it's going to put off a U.S. pop audience.

Juan Luis Guerra, who by rights I should be more familiar with than Vives, since merengue and bachata are a bigger presence in my world than cumbia and vallenato, has never left much of an impression, but I do have a couple albums a friend ripped for me, so this is a good reason to give them a listen. But from what I have heard, he's mellow in a way that bores me.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Sunday, 28 August 2005 11:09 (twenty years ago)

Listening now: yes, boring. That's about the best I can do. I don't find his voice particularly gripping either.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Sunday, 28 August 2005 11:11 (twenty years ago)

Guerra used to be more of a rockin' guy, I think he's gotten a little carried away with his reputation. his band is tight on uptempo numbers, but when it's just about him...eh. plus, the 'avispes' video is one of the most racist things I've seen ever, with its crazy crackhead satanic black guy (even if he IS being controlled by some lighter-skinned mysterious guy with many TV monitors, wtf is this all about)

Haikunym (Haikunym), Sunday, 28 August 2005 13:40 (twenty years ago)

Guerra was rockin' live. Maybe he needs to put out a live effort to win you folks over. Hmmm, at the show they had a video that just had animated wasps buzzing around...

steve k, Sunday, 28 August 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

(hey Steve, don't I count any more as Voice Peoples, I got some stuff in their can, man, whine whine) Not that familiar with Vives and Guerra. theworld.org just did one of their five-day-a-week closing (music) featurettes, this one on Daddy Yankee and reggaeton. (They got tons of World stuff you can read and hear bites of, on their Global Hits page). Reggaeton dug by Puerto Rican youth for being "anti-establishment," for one thing. The aural association with 80s Dancehall detracts from my enjoyment. 80s-type percussion programming is, not always but too often, just the wrong flavor of cheese. (Even on ILM's holy Cupid & Psyche, for the most part, though hopefully that's been re-masterd past my ancient CD.)

don, Sunday, 28 August 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

heloisa fernandes

got this, at last! this is really amazing, haikunym.

katie, a princess (katie, a princess), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 18:35 (twenty years ago)

All I know is, Natalia Lafourcade's new album Casa is gonna be on my P&J Top Ten for sure, and Bebe's album very well might be. Jaguares, too.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 18:53 (twenty years ago)

Wow and Wow!

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

glad you like Helô's record, Katie, I'll tell her! and phil I didn't even know this was out, awesome

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 19:04 (twenty years ago)

Big Star's all-new In Space incl."Love Revolution," a garage punk faux Latin work-out.(They put their idea of Latin, and their myddle-agin' energiez, to the test). Not like ? and the Mysterians, or "Little Latin Lupe Lu," or anythang, that I've thought of yet, except Big Star.

don, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

oy that sounds kind of awful, don, except not in a good way

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 20:13 (twenty years ago)

yeah, i kind of agree with the sourpuss!

surprisingly enough, i actually wound up liking that omar sosa ballads CD. whattaya know?

xhuxk, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

If you have Pupy [Cesar Pedroso, x-Los Van Van pianist] y Los Que Son Son: Mi Timba Cerrá (2005) around, I recommend giving it a listen. The beginning of the first song sounds just like the theme music from David Dye's (sp?) World Cafe on WXPN, but--after the first two songs, it's all pretty good.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 21:08 (twenty years ago)

"Pretty good" may not be a rave review, but this may be the first really contemporary Cuban album I can listen to straight through, and I do like parts of it a lot ("La Fiera"), I just need to sort it out. Also he covers "La Vida es un Carnival" and actually saves it from being its usual tedious self.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost have y'all actually heard the track, or do you just mean my description "sounds" awful? The latter, I hope.

don, Wednesday, 7 September 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)

(But what I'm really feeling is Mohammad Iskandar's Hakini, which I think is from this year. But I don't know if I love it because I just really love well-done folkish Lebanese stuff, or because it is especially outstanding. He's good though. All these good Syrian and Lebanese semi-traditional singers are coming out of the woodwork all the sudden, or maybe they were there all along and I was too busy buying old Egyptian things.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 7 September 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

I don't know much Lebanese; mainly Ijust recall what I heard in a National Geographic Special, Drug Clans Of The Southern Lebanon, and that was subdued, apprehensive(furtive?) strumming and thumb-picking. What's Hakini like? Is Iskandar a singer? (Listened to Big Star's "Love Revolution" again, like I should have before saying anything, if anything--it's basically just like Archie Bell & The Drells' "Tighten Up," if that were covered by KC And The Sunshine Band feat. Little Beaver on guitar--or like a good Carolina beach band covering such a cover--so Big Star's Memphis/Archie Bell's Memphis[but not like what if Archie Bell were in for Chris Bell, cos way past the *actual*70s]/faux Miami/Myrtle Beach-bait)(but really record review-bait, so back to homework)

don, Friday, 9 September 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

"but not like what if Archie Bell were in for Chris Bell," I meant "playing in Big Star in place of Big Star's own Chris Bell", and also "cos way past the *actual*70s" means, "way past this track's inducing me to imagine such an alternate 70s reality, cos it doesn't make the 70s vibe seem *that* real and that live and thus that flexible, to have dif. lifelines on its palm."(Back to Latin: just heard track from new Eddie Palmieri: started predictably but got more engaging, or *even* more, for Eddie-fans; DJ was too cool to say the title so I could hear it--EH? Speak up, Sonneh!)

don, Friday, 9 September 2005 03:17 (twenty years ago)

Ijust recall what I heard in a National Geographic Special, Drug Clans Of The Southern Lebanon, and that was subdued, apprehensive(furtive?) strumming and thumb-picking.

I would like to hear that. I sometimes wonder if I have supported Lebanese organized crime (or worse?) by buying black market Arabic music cassettes.

What's Hakini like? Is Iskandar a singer?

Yes, Iskandar is a singer. I should really be putting this on my Arabic music thread instead of everywhere else. What I was trying to suggest above is that I doubt there is anything really stand-out about this particular recording, for someone who knows this type of material. I just happen to really like this style. It has really rhythmic, sometimes rapid, runs on an electric bouzouk (I think it is--unless it's just an electric guitar, but it sounds very bouzouk like), like a lot of Greek music. There are periodic moments when the singer goes off on a non-metered improvisation (mawal). That tends to be a somewhat harsh sound, but it's fine with me. The rhythms are incredible. There is also that sort of string section accent that comes into a lot Arabic music, and I would guess that's derived more from Egyptian popular music rather being as ultra-Lebanese as the rhythms. And the melodies do nice, typical, little dips and whatnot. The most objectionable thing is that excessively assertive, martial sounding, male chorus, much like what you hear in Fairouz, along with intermittent celebratory shouts in the background (on what is a studio recording), but those things pretty much come with the territory. (The last track is something different, closer to an interntaional pop music sound.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Friday, 9 September 2005 10:28 (twenty years ago)

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=356W11RMLISVS21TI3YEICX4ET

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Friday, 9 September 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)

Hey Chuck:

Did the Voice send anyone to cover the 30th New York Salsa Festival that took place Saturday night Sept. 10th at Madison Square Garden with Victor Manuelle, India, Tito Rojas,Oscar D'leon, La Sonora Poncena, and N'Klabe...???

steve k, Sunday, 11 September 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

xpost Yeah, most things I hear are hard to review, unless you wanna let it come down to: "Here's a good example of a certain approach to a certain style. If you're a fan of this style, you'll like this album," and the details are so you can figure out if you're *that* big (or that discriminating, or that just plain fannish) a fan or not. But sounds like the style you're describing sets the bar pretty high! Us country fans are used to dealing with the loud macho component.

don, Monday, 12 September 2005 01:07 (twenty years ago)

Don, I guess you're responding to RS. I hope Chuck sees my question.

steve k, Monday, 12 September 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

Chuck, I know there are tons of live music events going on around NYC, and you have very few column inches to cover it all(or what you think is interesting), but I remain curious if the Voice had space to cover the 30th NY Salsa Fest at the Garden on Friday.

Here's what the NY Times said:

September 12, 2005
Classic and Future Latin Sounds Along With Glimpses of the Past
By BEN RATLIFF, NY Times
"In 1975, during the peak era of salsa music's popularity in New York, Ralph Mercado put on the first New York Salsa Festival at Madison Square Garden. Mr. Mercado is one of the full-utility movers in American music, comparable to Norman Granz or George Wein in the jazz world; through management, promotion, nightclub managing and record producing, he has had an enormous influence in the international spread of New York's Latin music.

It seems that he also ordered a lot of backstage filming at the Garden through the years, and evidence of that ran on screens through most of the 30th edition of the concert on Saturday. It's not enough, at this event, to appreciate the music being played onstage, through clockwork rotations of multiple bands. Mr. Mercado usually tries to give you some larger picture, to make the bands' performances substantially different from an ordinary club gig. So beyond the stage appearances of Oscar D'Leon, La India, Tito Rojas, La Sonora Ponceña and N'Klabe - all with excellent bands - there were nearly constant video loops of eminent figures from Mr. Mercado's old client list (Celia Cruz, Tito Puente and Marc Anthony), mostly with Mr. Mercado looming somewhere in the frame.

N'Klabe, a salsa orchestra led by three young male singers, is like a boy band with integrity. Given the reason for their existence - bringing much-needed youth market to an aging genre with slogans like "I Love Salsa!" - they're better than you expect. Reggaetón has nearly eclipsed salsa on the radio, and for N'Klabe not to switch into reggaetón mode for any of its set seemed almost a radical act. It turned out to be an older, more charmingly diffident performer, Mr. Rojas, who nodded toward the revolution, bringing out a young reggaetonero to growl in rhythm at the end of his set.

Sonora Ponceña was founded in 1954 by the guitarist and singer Quique Lucca, and Mr. Lucca was onstage at the Garden in an honorary role, singing along with the choruses in a white suit at the back of the blue-suited band. But it is his son, the pianist Papo Lucca, who directs the band and drives its deep, bewitching midtempo swing. On the old hit "Hachero Pa' un Palo," the younger Mr. Lucca took a masterly solo, the night's one moment of real instrumental genius, expanding the song's harmony and then narrowing it back, expressing autonomy from the groove and then fealty to it.

La India, who came into Latin music in the 80's through the pop-and-hip-hop version of Latin music known as freestyle, came in large part to salute Celia Cruz. She's known as La Princesa de la Salsa, as opposed to Cruz's title of queen, and she has an enormous voice, given to soaring and melismatic note-bending rather than the percussive staccato of much salsa singing. Overdoing it is just what she does: she walloped everything she sang, including the old Celia Cruz numbers "Bemba Colora" and "Quimbara"; the musical climaxes were carefully plotted, four of them arranged equidistantly through the set.

The big disappointment of the night was that Victor Manuelle, the great sonero, or improvising lead vocalist, and the last great link in a disappearing chain, didn't make his promised appearance at the top of the bill. But the show ended with a "batalla de los soneros" anyway, with a cast of Mr. D'Leon, Ismael Miranda, Domingo Quiñones and José Alberto "El Canario" improvising over vamps about one another, about New York and about salsa history. By the end of a fairly uncompetitive half-hour, it was the laserlike tenor of the night's last-minute substitute, Mr. Miranda, who won out."


steve k, Monday, 12 September 2005 13:49 (twenty years ago)

I think it's probably counterproductive to nag Chuck.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 13:54 (twenty years ago)

That's a pretty good review though.

She's known as La Princesa de la Salsa

A disputed title. Not so much that there is anyone else people think should be given that label, just that La India doesn't deserve it.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 13:58 (twenty years ago)

I like "I Love Salsa" far more than I probably should. It's so-so outside a club setting, but when I am on a dance-floor it does tend to inspire me to become a salsero-berserker.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 14:01 (twenty years ago)

>Hey Chuck:
Did the Voice send anyone to cover the 30th New York Salsa Festival that took place Saturday night Sept. 10th at Madison Square Garden with Victor Manuelle, India, Tito Rojas,Oscar D'leon, La Sonora Poncena, and N'Klabe...??? <

Nope, not that particular show. It's possible we may have shortlisted it in the choices section, though. (Obviously there are tons of shows, in every genre, that I wish we had more room to cover.)

xhuxk, Monday, 12 September 2005 14:03 (twenty years ago)

>the Coconut FM comp has nothing to do with the Señor Coconut project, aside from the name. <

That Cococunt FM comp is great, Philip! (And everybody!) And Philip is right; it has nothing in common whatsoever with his icky Kraftwerk covers.

xhuxk, Monday, 12 September 2005 14:18 (twenty years ago)

Local jazz station's regular Funky Flashback Friday recently played (Kraftwerk's own remixes, Art Of Noise, and) The Fantastic Johnny C.'s "Boogaloo Down Broadway": my (lazy ILMer's) request is: Pleaase Tell Me About Boogaloo/Bugalu whiiine!!!

don, Monday, 12 September 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

Search the archives lazy whiner. Chuck has raved about the Rough Guide to Boogaloo, but I'm not sure he'd claim to know much about the style (and neither do I). Is Johnny C. "Johnny Colon" or someone else? I have his Boogaloo '67 and it's okay, not something I listen to much.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Monday, 12 September 2005 22:36 (twenty years ago)

yee-haw!

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Monday, 12 September 2005 23:13 (twenty years ago)

What? (Boogaloo is not my thing, so I'm not going to be more than tepid about that.)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)

Oh, I realize now you are reacting to people's responses to the Coconut FM thing. I need to check that out.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 00:04 (twenty years ago)

rockist, send me yr address (snail or e-) and i'll get you a copy, if you like.

philip sherburne (philip sherburne), Tuesday, 13 September 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

I was hoping Philip was "yee-hawing" me (who once got Mark Sinker saying "yall," at least in email), but he's doing it to Chuckwagon Eddy. Actually, RS, my lazy ass ended up doing some accidental research last night (no not that kind): listening to a recent recording of Allman Bros.'"Mountain Jam," realized Gregg's B3 was booglaooing at one point (past bits of "Watermelon Man," "Bumpin' On Sunset," etc) And also, on a live boot from the 60s, Electric Flag's Mike Bloomfield announces, "Funky Boogaloo!" And Buddy Miles starts fibrillating toms and kickdrum--kickdrums, I should say, probably. (He's so easy to underrate, but contributed to remarkable albums, and wouldn't be surprised if his buddy Laswell hooked him up with North African and/or Arabs, though haven't heard what they actually recorded). Also, boogaloo bits on a live 60s boot of "East West," Butterfield Band's alleged "blues-raga," also with Bloomfield, who seems to be playing an "Eastern" riff based on the opening notes of "When The Saints" over some of bugaluish) Sorry to bore you RS butt

don, Tuesday, 13 September 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

two months pass...
I was listening to sound samples of Liquits at Amazon and they sounded ok in a Cafe Tacuba rockin' pop kind of way. They're even produced by one of the Tacuba guys.

Has anyone else heard Liquits?

curmudgeon (Steve K), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 04:42 (twenty years ago)

That Miguel Diaz Echu Mingua is one unusual(in a good way) Latin Jazz cd. I also gotta check out Bebe and some of those other folks Matt C., Frank Kogan, and Phil have recommended.

curmudgeon (Steve K), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

November 15, 2005 05:05 PM US Eastern Timezone

Olga Tanon, Voltio, Reik, Victor Manuelle and N'Klabe to Perform at 3rd Annual Premios Fox Sports

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 15, 2005--
More Than 850,000 Unique Votes Were Cast This Year, Winners to Be Announced December 5; Tickets Now on Sale at Ticketmaster, Proceeds to Benefit the International Kids Fund


Building on its tradition of bringing together the very best in Latino sports and entertainment during its one-of-a-kind Premios Fox Sports, Fox Pan American Sports today announced the addition of music superstars Olga Tanon, Voltio, Reik, Victor Manuelle and N'Klabe to an all-star artist line-up that is sure to make this year's edition of Premios Fox Sports its most memorable to date. Winners in 13 categories were voted on exclusively by fans and will be crowned, alongside recipients of several special recognitions, during the official 3rd Annual Premios Fox Sports awards ceremony to be held December 5, 2005 at the Jackie Gleason Theater of Performing Arts in Miami Beach, Florida.

"Our 3rd Annual Premios Fox Sports already is shaping up to be one of the most anticipated events of the year," said David Sternberg, executive vice president and general manager of Fox Sports en Espanol. "The addition of these extraordinary performers to this year's artist line-up and the unprecedented success of our online voting campaign are a testament to the growth and acceptance of Premios Fox Sports year after year."

Anointed the "Queen of Merengue" by her legion of fans, Olga Tanon is one of the most popular and admired Latin artists of all time. Her numerous hits, among them "Me cambio por ella" and "Es mentiroso," have achieved platinum status and alongside her latest album, the triple platinum "Siente el amor," have established her as one of Latin music's top international artists. Presently, a former Billboard chart-topper and Premios Lo Nuestro award-winner, Olga Tanon continues to be a favorite among merengueros all over the world.

Considered one of the pioneers of the red-hot reggaeton movement, Voltio is one of the most dynamic and influential Latino performers and song-writers of his time. Having recorded his first tracks as far back as 1991, his "Julito Marana" became an instant classic that fused a unique salsa piano tumbao with lyrics warning against the dangers of thug life. The author of megastars Hector and Tito's hit song, "No te hagas la loca," Voltio recently released "Voltage A/C" (Sony BMG Latin /White Lion), a slickly produced solo album that combines salsa riffs and an old-school hip-hop feel, while being unmistakably reggaeton. The 27-year-old Voltio, born Julio Ramos, is one of several rappers to appear on "Chosen Few: El Documental," a CD/DVD that is currently number three on the Billboard charts.

A "Best New Artist" Grammy nominee this year, Reik dominates the radio airwaves in Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Venezuela, and across Central America. Originally from Mexico, the talented pop trio has quickly emerged as one of the most promising and popular groups in the genre among young Latino music enthusiasts. Their first album, which continues to gain momentum in Mexico and the United States, already has achieved Platinum status with sales in excess of over 100,000 in Mexico.

One of the most accomplished young talents of the 1990s, Puerto-Rican born salsero Victor Manuelle has released nearly a dozen albums to date with total record sales in excess of one million. His first album "Justo a tiempo" was released in 1993, and since then the Billboard chart-topping artist has struck gold with albums "A pesar de todo" and "Ironias," while his self-titled album achieved triple gold status. Discovered by Gilberto Santa Rosa, Victor Manuelle has emerged as one of the leading salsa singers of this generation.

Made up of talented young artists, up-and-coming orchestral group N'Klabe is credited with bringing a fresh and new energy to the tropical music genre. Over the years, they have shared the stage with big-name salseros including Gilberto Santa Rosa, El Gran Combo, and Victor Manuelle, and recently released a special edition of their "I love Salsa!" album featuring some of the most notable Latin music acts, among them Jose Feliciano, Rey Ruiz, Voltio, Luisito Carrion, and Brenda K. Starr. Their "Amor de una noche," the second single from their latest album, recently dethroned Don Omar's chart-topping "Ella y yo" and is now amidst a six week reign atop BDS' tropical hits list and has re-defined salsa as "Urban Salsa."

Upon conclusion of online voting October 31, nearly 850,000 Yahoo! users had cast their vote at premiosfoxsports.com, representing a 300 percent increase from last year.

In addition to serving as the voting hub, the official site of Premios Fox Sports provides access to up-to-date information surrounding the event and background on nominees and artists, including photos and videos from last year's show. The site is hosted throughout the Yahoo! Spanish-language network, including Yahoo! Mexico, Yahoo! Argentina and Yahoo! en espanol.

Tickets for the 3rd Annual Premios Fox Sports are now on sale through Ticketmaster. All proceeds from ticket sales will benefit the International Kids Fund, a charitable entity part of the Jackson Memorial Hospital Foundation which seeks to provide life-saving medical care to needy children from Latin America and the Caribbean who suffer from life-threatening illnesses.

The 3rd Annual Premios Fox Sports, which will air in January 2006, will bring together sports and mainstream celebrities to honor the contributions and achievements of Latino athletes and personalities from a variety of sports, including soccer, basketball, motor sports, tennis and boxing. Recording artist and former Sabado Gigante on-air personality Sissi will host the show, alongside Mexican actor Jaime Camil. The show will be broadcasted in the United States on Fox Sports en Espanol and throughout the Spanish-speaking Americas on Fox Sports Latin America.

About Fox Pan American Sports

Fox Pan American Sports LLC is an international sports programming and production entity jointly owned by Hicks, Muse, Tate & Furst and News Corporation's (NYSE:NWS) Fox Sports International.

(Why am I promoting a Fox Network event?)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 12:56 (twenty years ago)

Rs, it's not Fox News at least.

So I keep seeing Duranguense cds in my local Target and Best Buy. I think that's Mexican music from the Durango region. I see that "Dr. Phil" posted about it here on Aug. 22, 2005 and elsewhere. I need to check out some samples. One artist/cd he recommended was described elsewhere as follows:

"Diana Reyes is a rarity-a female solo artist in the male-dominated duranguense area of regional Mexican music. Reyes isn't the only woman singing duranguense; Armando Terrazas, founder of Chicago's long-running los Horóscopos de Durango, made a daring and commercially successful move when-after years of overseeing male-oriented lineups-he decided to put his daughers Vicky and Marisol Terrazas right up front. But it is safe to say that historically, las mujeres (women) have been the exception instead of the rule in durganguense, which receives a very pop-minded treatment from Reyes on "La Reina del Pasito Duranguense" ("The Queen of Duranguense"). The Mexican singer, for the most part, doesn't use duranguense for traditionally ranchera purposes on this 2005 release; Reyes caters to those who like their duranguense laced with a big dose of Latin pop. Try to envision a duranguense interpretation of Selena, Ana Bárbara or Priscila y sus Balas de Plata; that is essentially where Reyes is coming from on hooky, infectious, pop-drenched tracks like "Que Me Ame Mas" ("May He Love Me More"), "Como Una Mariposa" ("Like A Butterfly"), "Mentiras" ("Lies") and "El Me Mintio" ("He Lied To Me"). Some might describe this type of regional Mexican ear candy as a "guility pleasure," but then, there's no reason to feel guility about enjoying ear candy as long as it's well done-and Reyes, like Bárbara, definitely provides above-average ear candy (although unlike Bárbara, she isn't working in the grupero realm). "La Reina del Pasito Duranguense" isn't as eclectic or far-reaching as albums by los Horóscopos de Durango; nonetheless, this memorable, pleasing disc is well worth obtaining if one is seeking something fresh from duranguense." ~ Alex Henderson, All Music Guide

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

Duranguense may be even less popular than salsa here on ILM.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 18:38 (twenty years ago)

Duranguense is a very small genre! It is also kind of hard for most norteamericanos to distinguish between it and, say, banda or tejano or norteno music. I like it fine; Grupo Montez de Durango's Y Sigue la Mata Dando is one of my favorite albums this year!

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 18:43 (twenty years ago)

Thanks Matt. Rather than examining every little (English language mostly)indie-rock niche (Belle & Seb. influenced twee-pop; Pavement-influenced whatever; weird beard folk; late 60s/early 70s sludge psychedelia; metal; etc.) I keep thinking I'd rather be a multi-cultural contrary dilettante and check out various non-English language genres that I like (or think I will like) but I do not always know with which artists to start(not enough time to research/listen on my own), be it in duranguense or dancehall or kwaito or Congolese rumba or salsa or reggaeton. Gradually I learn which genres I like and which I do not.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 29 November 2005 19:05 (twenty years ago)

Los Horoscopos de Durango are pretty cool, but the idea of an album that is LESS diverse than their work is pretty funny; they're just straightforward poppy pop. If you're looking for something that just kicks ass in this vein, try the beautiful tejano pop album Diez by Intocable, which was back in my top ten before I heard this Shakira album which has SEIZED MY SOUL.

The Obligatory Sourpuss (Begs2Differ), Tuesday, 29 November 2005 19:07 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, I was thinking the "eclectic and far-reaching" tag didn't really apply to them, though I guess they do traditional songs and pop songs, whereas Diana's pretty much just pop. (I've just heard the one album by her, so she may have some ranchera roundup record I don't know about.) Horoscopos are great players; I got this live DVD of theirs, and they're really entertaining to watch, and not just because they play the whole show under a big old Montez banner, poor guys! But on record, I like them and Montez about the same, which is to say they're fine for a song or two but then samey. Though I realize Montez get into some different stuff towards the end of their '05 CD, Diana's pop tunes are just easier for me to find varied pleasure in than Montez and Horoscopos' more traditional stuff.

That said, Curmudgeon, listen to whatever Banda Lamento Show you can! Those guys are energetic and weird. And a good comp is 15 Duranguneses de Corazon (I think), which has a cover of "Chiquitita" and a song that lifts the melody of "Under the Boardwalk" without actually being same, I don't think; and there's a nice stretch in the middle where the bands' textures and approaches to Duranguense vary noticably.

dr. phil (josh langhoff), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:03 (twenty years ago)

I'm voting for Rompe on my singles list.

deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

Meh.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:24 (twenty years ago)

& I don't hate Daddy Yankee.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:25 (twenty years ago)

You're crazy.

103.1 has been playing the shit out of it, but I still love it.

deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:31 (twenty years ago)

voltio_calle_13-ojalai
voltio_calle_13-ojalai
voltio_calle_13-ojalai

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:34 (twenty years ago)

"Bumper" is good.

deej.. (deej..), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

Have you heard Tito Nieves Feat. Fat Joe - El Terremoto? It's. . . okay. I don't know, why do I like any of this anyway? But I do like some. I think it works better than the reggaeton experiment on Nieves' album from last year. His singing seemed out of place on that. Here I guess he's still singing, but it sounds more like normal singing in reggaeton (except not off-key).

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Thursday, 1 December 2005 03:50 (twenty years ago)

Brilliant eccentric Prof Robert Farris Thompson talking to Cuban music and more man Ned Sublette about how he got into music, at http://www.afropop.org

"my parents – I'd been hungry to see Mexico City, and they decided we'd take a spring break vacation of a week in , but mostly Mexico City . So we arrive, and they're tired from the plane, and my sister's tired. They crash. I couldn't wait to savor this teeming center of Latin American culture, so I just walked right out of the hotel, turned right on Avenida Juárez, and walked and walked till I got to Zócalo. And there was this huge building that intrigued me -- I had no idea what it was -- across the plaza. And there was a man standing by the door. I said, "Cuál es este edificio?" – What's this building? And he said, "Es el Palacio Nacional!" – It's the National Palace . "Y si tienes suerte podrás verlo adentro." I said, wow. He's saying, if you're lucky and go in, you may see him. And I thought, him? So I went right in, mounted the stairs, and there was Diego Rivera painting. Just like the scene in the movie on his wife. Painting up there on a scaffolding, painting Aztec cities emerging from the waters of Lake Texcoco . And I was blown away. And then he noticed me staring at him, and he shot me this "¿Y usted qué ve?" What are you lookin' at, kid? look. So I answered with a smile that I hoped translated [as] "Algo sublime, señor!" Something sublime, sir!

I staggered back to the hotel, get in the elevator. And I'm alone in the elevator with Anthony Quinn. And he starts rapping, and I said, "Mr. Quinn, what are you here for?" And he said, "I'm doin' The Brave Bulls – it's a movie about bullfighting." Boom, he disappeared. Then I staggered back to my room and I realized I've seen two celebrities in 45 minutes. I wandered down to the dining hall. The Muzak was going strong and it was [sings bass line]. I asked this woman, "What's that?" She said: "Mambo!"

And that was it. I was locked in. As soon as I got back to El Paso I crossed the Río Bravo, went to Ciudad Juárez, stoked up on 78 shellacs by Pérez Prado, and I have been chasing the mambo beat ever since. There was just something about seeing Diego Rivera, and then having a chat with Anthony Quinn, and then hearing my first mambo, all within the first hour. And then later, when I was drafted into the United States Army, I had a buddy photograph me on Mexican soil, between the Juárez mountains and the Franklin mountains. And I'm on a Mexican hill, and I have three LPs in my hand, with the black face of Pérez Prado. And somehow I just wanted to be remembered with those LPs, but what I was doing unconsciously was swearing fealty forever to the cause of Latino music, black Latino music."

curmudgeon (Steve K), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 07:09 (twenty years ago)

It's a long conversation which soon gets into the history of the tango, as Thompson got a new book about the tango out. He's working on a book on the mambo, and mentions that, reggaeton and more.

curmudgeon (Steve K), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 07:42 (twenty years ago)

I'm voting for some latin music, but I think it's kinds of latin music that people who actually know latin music (hello rockist scientist) probably don't like. It is in Spanish, tho, if that helps with the polling diversity.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 07:53 (twenty years ago)

Steve, that interview sounds great--I will check it out. I rarely go to afropop because the graphic design hurts my eyes so badly.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 12:59 (twenty years ago)

Stuff on afropop.org can be so good, and yet they make it look so stupid, thanks to the graphic design, that dumb little guitarist/singer drawing, and the shoddy proof-reading. It's the Z Magazine of world music.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

The design and look is terrible, but I like Banning Eyre's writing, and he and Sean Barlow do some nice interviews, and travel the world to interesting events.

Farris Thompson and Sublette know so much about Spanish-language music it's scary. They also relate it in such an entertaining manner. I read a bunch of bloggers raving about Sublette's presentation at the EMP. In this afropop.org thing, he mostly just sits back and lets Thompson enthuse and explain.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 14:58 (twenty years ago)

Hey Rs,

Do you know anything about the Sonero Allstars-Dime Nague cd? Here's a review by Omar Walker at salsapower.com

"K.O. in the first round! That’s how this brand new release makes you feel after one listen. A group of musicians (band members from Los Van Van, Issac Delgado, Elio Revé, Jr., etc.) got together to pay homage to Elio Revé and the result is perhaps the best Changüi CD since Elio Revé and su Charangón in their prime.

Former Revé singer, Pascual Matos Aguirre ‘Sinsonte’ is the main vocalist, and damn, this kid can blow! With his nasal vocals, similar to ‘El Indio’ (another Charangón singer) he stands out among today soneros. "Nagüe" and "Explotó la rumba" are pure adrenaline rushes. Then there’s the trombone section, ripping though the CD with such force, that it seems their purpose is to knock your walls down.

"Dime Nagüe" feels like a tribute to Revé (there’s even a song in his memory) but sounds original at the same time. The best way to describe this recording is to imagine if La Charangón, Conjunto Libre, Los Van Van and La Perfecta had a child, this would be it. Man, Timba had better look out, because if this catches on …Ñó."

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Maybe I shoulda put that on the 2005 salsa thread.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Steve, yes, I have heard that album, though I haven't listened all that closely. It's really not my cup of tea, too Cuban. I don't think I like changüi. We're talking about a very very traditional Cuban style here (even if they do mix it up a bit--really it's timbafied changüi).

There was one track I heard from Oderquis Reve's solo album that I liked for a while, but I burned out on it. The only thing I really like was the coros in the latter third of the song. I didn't like the lead vocalist's voice or style. I don't even like the approach to melody, or something. It just seems jumbled to me. (My Puerto Rican salsera friend likes that album, though, and she generally doesn't like timba/contemporary Cuban music.)

Here's descarga.com's description of the Soneros All Stars album:

Wow! With the power of an unexpected slap in the face, ¡Dime Nagüe! just may be the hottest Cuban salsa-son release of the year. Seared with the stamp of Changüi, this hard-driving project is catapulted by the dynamic and superbly executed vocals of Pascual Matos Aguirre 'Sinsote' (Orquesta Revé) and a cast that includes timbaleros Samuel Formell (son of Van Van's Juan Formell) and Oderquis Revé, as well as treseros 'Papi' Oviedo, Miklos Bogdan 'Yanesito' and Jorge Luis Villa, this hard-to-find import CD is simply not to be missed. Non-stop panic inducing arrangements by bassist Arnaldo Jimenez... the rising star of modern Cuban dance music.

Producer Janne Miklos Bogdan has clearly assembled some of Cubas brightest musicians — they have been pulled from Los Van Van, Sierra Maestra, Elio Revé Jr., Isaac Delgado, and Cubanismo.
Do not hesitate, this one, folks, is a total Must-Have. It's just what is needed to make your summer sizzle; a reminder that the wells of Cuban music are always deeper than previously thought. If you have any doubts go ahead and listen to "Explotó La Rumba" penned by Andres Soza Revé.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

Also, aside from a short live bootleg recording, I haven't heard anything by Isaac Delgado that made me understand what the big deal is supposed to be. I also don't like Cubanismo, and only like a handful of Van Van songs.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

I was underwhelmed by Delgado when I saw him live years ago, but I thoroughly enjoyed Cubanismo when I saw them. Although I did not like the cds quite as much (but I loved a Sierra Maestra cd I have). As I may have said elsewhere, I was sure I liked the recent Cuban stuff more than you, but then I was underwhelmed by a Los Van Van collection I got recently, and am wondering how to explain my new-found disillusionment.

What are some of your fave NY or Puerto Rican 2005 efforts other than that Miguel Diaz Echu Mingua one, which seems more Latin-Jazz than I thought for something that you like?

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 December 2005 20:54 (twenty years ago)

Honestly, it has not been a good year for salsa albums. My favorite thing so far just might be the 2-CD Christmas disc I just bought by Gilberto Santa Rosa and El Gran Combo (with guests). The Puerto Rican Masters tribute to Marvin Santiago was okay, but I'd still much rather hear the originals.

Otherwise, I could name individual songs, but I already sent you some of them (but mixed with some '04 things).

I mean, geez, what '05 songs really made an impression on me this summer? The Johnny Pacheco tribute to Celia Cruz (though a little too long), N'Klabe's "I Love Salsa" and "La Salsa de Puerto Rico," and? . . . I can't even think of any others off-hand.

You're right, Echu Mingua is definitely not salsa, but it's not mainstream Latin jazz either. It's closer to the end of jazz I like (e.g., Sun Ra, Sun Ra, and Sun Ra).

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 21:12 (twenty years ago)

Skip the tributes and buy Marvin Santiago: Oro Salsero: 20 Exitos, and something with the Bobby Valentin song he sings, "El Jibaro Y La Naturaleza" (or a bunch of his albums); and buy Angel Canales' Sabor con Angel Canales and Sentimiento Del Latino en Nueva York rather than the Canales tribute that came out this year.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Tuesday, 6 December 2005 21:28 (twenty years ago)

Just to add a bit, I think that Soneros All Stars album is probably very good for the type of thing it is, just not something I am drawn to. It's pretty high-energy stuff, I will give it that. Maybe there is some sort of changui revival taking place in Cuba. I don't know. I still hardly even understand what exactly it is, though I must have read about it in that Ned Sublette book.

Also I might be underestimating that Puerto Rican All Stars album a little, another one I haven't listen to much. But it's hard not to compare these versions to the Marvin Santiago originals (where I'm familiar with them). I was just listening a little to the second disc though, and Oscar D'Leon sounds pretty good on that.

(Why does everybody have to be "All Stars" though?!)

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 7 December 2005 04:03 (twenty years ago)

I think we scared everyone else away from this thread by talking salsa and Cuban changui...

Let me change the subject.

I took Matt/Haikunym's advice and am listening to Tejano band Intocable. I think, I that's what they are. I cannot keep all those genres down there straight--norteno, banda, etc. Gorgeous pop melodies, subtle accordion...

curmudgeon all stars (Steve K), Wednesday, 7 December 2005 04:55 (twenty years ago)

I'll be listening to Banda el Recodo, Hay Amor later.

Gypsy:

Did you see that interview/feature piece on Luny Tunes by Jon Caramanica in the Sunday 12-5 NY Times? I thought I had linked to that somewhere. Maybe not. Real interesting discussion of their production approach.

RS:

Either in that article or elsewhere I read that a bunch of reggaeton rappers who performed together at an award show (Latin Grammys maybe) were all wearing t-shirts with old-school salsa soneros on them. Plus I keep seeing Fat Joe in a Hector Lavoe shirt.

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 7 December 2005 13:52 (twenty years ago)

four years pass...

I LOVE THIS! THIS WAS MY MAIN JAM FROM LAST YEAR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQysX5mE3I4

dog latin, Sunday, 14 February 2010 02:26 (sixteen years ago)

not that it came out last year, but it was my summer soundtrack.

dog latin, Sunday, 14 February 2010 02:27 (sixteen years ago)

Afro-Latin Music Thread 2010: La Resurrección (salsa, merengue, bachata, reggaeton, cumbia, etc.)

curmudgeon, Sunday, 14 February 2010 21:08 (sixteen years ago)


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