TS: Master Of Puppets vs. Reign In Blood

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All the metalheads I knew growing up agreed that these were the two greatest metal albums of all-time. Each perfect from start to finish. Every tune on both records are classics. But which one is better??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Reing in Blood, but I've never heard Master of Puppets.

― Aja (aja), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

It's a tie! hmmm, my heart says slayer. but i do love them both.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

i am going to go with master of puppets because reign in blood tends to exhaust me.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:18 (twenty-two years ago)

As hard as it is to choose I'll take Master and I can't really explain why other than perhaps because I learned so much about the guitar from that one. We've waited almost 20 years for another album that compares to either one of these records. Sepultura - Arise is the only album that ever came close cause it has all the good qualities of Master and Reign rolled into one. And no fuckin death or black metal albums even compare. Those bands have no personality and if you've heard 2 or 3 songs you've heard em all.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I honestly cannot pick one. It's a tie, I love both equally, and I can't imagine my life without either.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanted to do a REAL taking sides where it would be difficult to pick one.

Aja, you need to hear Master Of Puppets. It is one of the heaviest records of all-time. Slayer may be my favorite band of all-time, but Master Of Puppets is metal perfection.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Reign in Blood, I've always preferred Ride The Lightening to MoP. I may even pick Megadeth's Peace Sells over both.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Alright.

I'll see what I can do.

(x post)

― Aja (aja), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:34 (twenty-two years ago)

It's amazing how Reign in Blood is a little over half the length of Master of Puppets, yet is just as musically complex. Slayer just do it faster. Just listen to "Postmortem/Raining Blood"...there are at least six different movements.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

I may even pick Megadeth's Peace Sells over both.

The clunky cover of "I Ain't Superstitious" holds Peace Sells just short of classic status. To me, anyway.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Master of Puppets wins. Simply better tunes. But, I do love Reign in Blood.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"The Conjuring" is one of the best metal songs ever but generally I don't think Megadeth could put songs together that were great through and through until Rust In Peace and Countdown To Extinction.

I was really wanting people to put themselves back in '86. Forget what Metallica has become. This is their third record and they are just fucking going places metal has never gone. Its huge!! Of course Slayer is doing new things as well, but its just how mind-blowingly fast and aggressive it is. Slayer may have never topped Reign but they have become a much better band over the years.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

oh yeah, I'll agree that it's silly to judge Metallica on the wreck they became (still, I kinda enjoyed St Anger). I would just say that Fade To Black is my favouite Metallica song, and I wish they would remix "...And Justice For All", you know make it sound fuller, it's almost unlistenable as it is, way too tinny. I read they were being nasty to the new boy by recording the bass really low.

― jel -- (jel), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I read they were being nasty to the new boy by recording the bass really low.

And, really, what a damn silly thing to do at the expense of their own record.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:56 (twenty-two years ago)

Both great, but I definitely have to pick MoP. Besides being a huge part of my youth, it has the melody and the epics.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

that new metallica documentary is supposed to be funnier than spinal tap.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 19 February 2004 18:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I was really wanting people to put themselves back in '86.

Yeah, both albums are classics, but when Puppets came out, that was an event. Three years of word-of-mouth and tape trading had expectations very high. I remember the first time I heard the album that spring...it was an epiphany. Later that year, I bought the newly-released Peace Sells, solely based on the title, which I thought was quite clever (there was no video or anything from that album yet). What a great year '86 was.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:06 (twenty-two years ago)

On ...And Justice For All: I agree there could be more bass and a less clicky drum sound. But the guitars sound fucking amazing I think. I always loved Metallica's completely scooped mid-range guitar sound. There's stuff on that album that they didn't do on Master. Like those parts in "And Justice For All" and "To Live Is To Die" where they layer all those lead guitar parts and notes - thats some straight up beautiful shit.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, some of it is genius. I've always thought it was unfairly trashed, it was Metallica trying to be as technical and virtuosic as anyone else out there back when they still had their gift for melody and writing catchy riffs.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I think the reason I'd take Master over Reign is cause "Battery" and "Damage Inc" can come a lot closer to replacing what I love about Reign. There isn't anything on Reign In Blood that even comes close to "Master Of Puppets" or "The Thing That Should Not Be".

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm with Jel on this one. Ride the Lightning rules over Reign in Blood, but Reign in Blood rules over the Ride the Lightning remake a.k.a. Master of Puppets (also a good one, thou).

― Roger T (Roger T), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Most underrated song on Master = Disposable Heroes.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh man...it's partly the production, but Ride the Lightning sounds big and ponderous and plodding (except for Fight Fire with Fire and a couple others), which is great in its way, while Master of Puppets sounds so nimble and in control and bad-ass.

Also I will be a happy man if I never hear Fade to Black again.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Most underrated song on Master = Disposable Heroes.

Who is underrating it? "Disposable heroes" is the reason I bought the album in the first place.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:27 (twenty-two years ago)

It just seems that no one ever mentions it, in comparison to Battery, the title track, Sanitarium, Orion, well, all the other tracks.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Master sounds too in control for my taste. Where did the kick ass thrash till dead fun go? No matter how solid the production on Reign in Blood, Slayer was still brutal, mindless mayhem.

― Roger T (Roger T), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Disposable Heroes just fine but I probably would rank it 8th out of the 8 tunes. Metallica was the master of E, but it was great when they went off on their little melodic parts and came back to the E. Disposable Heroes was just E-E-EEEEE-E-E-E-E. I hope you guys know what I'm trying to say...

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 19:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I greatly prefer Puppets over Lightning, too. On Puppets, Metallica followed the exact same formula as on Lightning (fast opening track, epic title track, ultraheavy song, a more contemplative track, etc.), but did everything much better. No weak moments on Puppets. Lightning has the very subpar "Trapped Under Ice" and "Escape". No contest.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Trapped and Escape are definitely subpar by comparison. I honestly have never liked Fade To Black at all. The end is decent I guess. Fight Fire With Fire and Creeping Death and the title track are too far ahead of the rest of the album.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:02 (twenty-two years ago)

You make a good point, Johnny.

I really should listen to this when I go home. It's one of those albums that's so internalized I don't feel that I actually have to listen to it, but it was kind of funny hearing Master of Puppets (the song) on the radio the other night and being able to go 'huh, those are bars of 5/8 in the verses, I didn't know that when I was covering it with my friends in high school.'

(x-post)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

I like ...And Justice For All better than Ride The Lightning. Song for song.

What good point did I make??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

About the EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

It's gotta be MOP, though RIB is GREAT.

― mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I wonder if it would be possible to do a mash-up of Metallica's M.O.P. and M.O.P.'s Ante Up.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

I thought most folks would pick Reign but I was wrong. How different it would be if it was

TS: Metallica vs. Slayer....

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Slayer obv. but MOP has better riffs than RIB

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I just mean I'd definitely take Metallica over Slayer in '86, but by the time the Black Album came out Slayer were the kings. Actually, seemed as if Sepultura was going to take the throne in those days.... Arise was better than South Of Heaven or Seasons In The Abyss - and Metallica betrayed everyone. But then it didn't take two records and Sepultura got into shatty tribal music and Slayer was alone at the top again.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

(I like Seasons in the Abyss and Sepultura's batucada phase. A lot.)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd vote for Peace Sells... just because drummer Gar Samuelson is listed as being responsible for drums and cigarette burns in the liner notes. Plus it's shreddier.

― Bryan (Bryan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually think Slayer wrote better - or at least more memorable and catchy - riffs from day one. To me it was Metallica's completely new way of putting songs together. I think we still see their arranging influence in so much rock music today. Metallica records back then just seemed so much more well-done. The guitar tones on Master were the best ever. And Hetfield's playing was flawless. You can hear so many mistakes on the guitar tracks for Reign In Blood!

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Metallica in this case, though I haven't listened to either in years and I barely ever remember playing Reign in Blood anyway.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:25 (twenty-two years ago)

my indifference to both (though I've got some friends, including a future roommate, who are determined to make me worship Slayer) reaffirms that I like my metal with the prefix pop in front of it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:28 (twenty-two years ago)

You forgot the 'J' in front of 'pop,' surely.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

idongeddit

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

J-pop-metal!

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:32 (twenty-two years ago)

(anthony your post makes me think there should be a book or a play called The Once and Future Roommate)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

what the fuck is j-pop?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.jpopzone.de/bilder/xjapan01.jpg

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Reign in Blood has more pure bludgeon, but Master of Puppets has more actual tunes.

Metallica was put more riffs in one song than some bands put in an album.

It is interesting how each member lost one member and really wasn't quite the same band afterwards. Slayer wasn't the same band after Lombardo left. Slayer didn't go pop like Metallica eventually did after Cliff's death, but neither band made a record as good after the lineup changes.

― earlnash, Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

there's a bad joke about Roudness retting it go forming in the back of my head

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:34 (twenty-two years ago)

Arise is not better than South of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss!!

In answer to the question, 15 year old me would have picked Master for getting me into thrash metal at all. But at this point I'd much sooner grab for Reign in Blood. In fact I listened to it about a month ago. I can't even remember the last time I listened to Master.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Also, I don't remember quite as much discourse about Slayer back in-the-day, at least when Reign in Blood came out. I mean, they wouldn't have been pitted against Metallica; Anthrax was the other band everyone talked about. Metallica and Anthrax were kinda like the Beatles & Stones of thrash. But maybe that was just my friends, I dunno.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Among my friends the big question was Metallica or Megadeth.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. That's funny. I think my folk generally liked Peace Sells, but they really weren't talked about as this great world-beating group or anything.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never really liked Peace Sells...me being a bit younger, no doubt, they became a force to be reckoned with around Rust in Peace and Countdown to Extinction.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 19 February 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll take MOP.

My favorite Megadeth is actually So far, So Good .... So What. "Hook In Mouth," "In My darkest Hour" -- great songs.

― subgenius (subgenius), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I listen to Reign In Blood about once a month, sometimes more. I listen to Master Of Puppets two or three times a year.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

In the 80s, Metallica were practically royalty compared to Slayer (justifiably), but today, I think Slayer has eclipsed Metallica. They're still sounding as intense as ever (whereas Metallica's live show has suffered in the past eight years--thanks mainly to Lars'lazy drumming), and God Hates Us All was a powerful album, their best since 1990. Metallica is now a mere shadow of their former selves. On the other hand, Slayer still inspires awe.

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

the early seultura worshiping is a little much. those albums havent aged that well.

― Pablo Cruise (chaki), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Arise still sounds great. Plus, the remastered edition has their classic cover of "Orgasmatron".

― abegrand, Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Ned, in that picture, is that Hide Matsumoto?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Not sure, it was just found in a random sweep for a photo of X (the Japanese one).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Hide Matsumoto was a huge Japanese rock star who took his own life (ala Kurt). He briefly played in a band called Zilch with Ray McVeigh (the Professionals) and Raven (Killing Joke/Prong). I don't know much more about him, other than he had flaming red hair (like above) and that he's now dead.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Slayer's gonna have a new album (with Lombardo) out later this year. It will probably be four years (if we're lucky) before Metallica excretes audio product again.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Thursday, 19 February 2004 21:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Reign In Blood for sure, still listen to it regularly.

I owned Master Of Puppets briefly when I was about 14, but can't remember getting into it too much.

― Mil, Friday, 20 February 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Master of Puppets ruled when I was a teenager. Slayer was great, but just didn't seem in the same league. A few years later things changed though. Who even cares what Metallica have turned into, that whole Lars against Napster thing just kind of nailed the lid on the coffin.

Seasons in the abyss was great and the decade of aggression was one of the only live albums I have ever liked.

Megadeath though always left me with a bad taste.

― hector (hector), Friday, 20 February 2004 00:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Alright, we're starting to swing the pendulum back in favor of Slayer here!!

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 20 February 2004 00:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Anthrax was not the Stones of thrash. Nuclear Assault kicked their ass all over the place. Even "Game Over" is better than any Anthrax album.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 01:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Nuclear Assault were melodically-impaired, though. I'm not suggesting that Anthrax were Mozart, but they had a better knack for actual tunes than Nuclear Assault. Besides, they were all buddies, so why pick favorites!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 01:48 (twenty-two years ago)

They might have had a few tunes that were up to Nuclear Assault's level, but Belladonna sounded like a sissy next to John Connelly so that ruined that.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 01:54 (twenty-two years ago)

but Belladonna sounded like a sissy next to John Connelly so that ruined that.

Yeah, Belladonna is the weakest link, this is true, but their tunes are still more memorable....to me at least.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 01:56 (twenty-two years ago)

AIR, Caught In A Mosh, I Am The Law, Skeletons In The Closet, One World, Imitation Of Life, NFL, Finale -- classics for sure.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:02 (twenty-two years ago)

God this is hard. I'll have to go with Puppets, if only because each song on that album is completely distinct and memorable. Reign is played so fast that the songs start to sound a little samey towards the end. But damn, both of those albums are really fucking great.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I haven't heard among the living in years, but i sure did like it back then.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

They SHOULD have made just one great NY Thrash band though - John Connelly, Scott Ian, Danny Lilker, Charlie Benante. And Nuclear Assault is definitely a better band name and logo. And their earlier album covers are among metal's all-time best.

Anyone remember how much like a GIRL the bass player from Anthrax looked inside the "State Of Euphoria" tape??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:07 (twenty-two years ago)

this is one of the harder TS threads in a while. usually the answer is easy.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:08 (twenty-two years ago)

I wanted to do a hard "Taking Sides" after I saw the Verve vs. Black Sabbath and Monster Magnet vs. The Darkness.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:09 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, those are just silly.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Reign in Blood" is my pick...still sounds great to me.

― chad (chad), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Now might be a good time for someone to say something nice about Testament and/or Exodus.

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Testament - Alex Skolnik ruled!

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:22 (twenty-two years ago)

..and Overkill

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the thing that swings it in favor of Slayer for me is the guitar playing. Or rather, the guitar soloing. King/Hanneman are just fucking godlike, coaxing all kinds of unreal squeals and dive-bombs and tremolo-abusing Blue Cheer-at-78-RPM harmolodics. Hammett/Hetfield can't compare. Now, to me, anyway. But hey when I was 14 or 15 or whatever my ears hadn't been warped by Ornette and so forth yet. J0hn Darn1elle once wrote on here that the dude from Morbid Angel was better than King, so I went and picked up a copy of Blessed Are the Sick, and yeah it's pretty righteous, and I certainly respect J0hn's superior knowledge of the idiom, but the soloing isn't nearly as blasted and sick as King's stuff.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I'll say something nice about Sacred Reich. When I've got more time.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Cause I know I'll have to defend em.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Sacred Reich! Wow, we're diving deeper here. Wh'about: Flotsam & Jetsam, Gothic Slam and Metal Church while we're at it?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:25 (twenty-two years ago)

And whoa there buddy! Slayer's my all-time favorite man but Trey Azagthoth kills both of them as far as playing goes.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Alex In NYC, I can't tell if you're being TOTALLY sarcastic or not. I actually still love my early Sacred Reich.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I can recognize that Azagoth is a great player, but he's got the Van Halen thing going on a bit; I just like the stuff that King pukes up better.

Weren't Exodus the dudes that Metallica ripped off on some song?

Before Reign in Blood came out I had always known Slayer as this band that had ads for their low-budget looking Metal Blade albums in the back pages of Circus magazine, along with like Cirith Ungol, Cryptic Slaughter, Bitch, Lizzy Borden, shit like that. Always curious about those bands, but I never got to hear 'em. I don't think they even got played on "Metal Shop".

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not dissing Morbid Angel ("Altars of Madness" fuckin' shreds), but Trey Azagthoth has the most hilarious metal name ever.

"I am Azagthoth, I have come from the deepest, blackest pits of Doom to devour your soul...oh, and you can call me Trey."

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I missed a 'th' in there somewhere.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:31 (twenty-two years ago)

Trey Wingo from ESPN should get together with Trey Azagthoth and do a promo.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:32 (twenty-two years ago)

What's that guy's name in Phish? Isn't it disquietingly simillar to Trey Azagoth? Evil twin maybe?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:33 (twenty-two years ago)

i remember my paper-boy self thinking master of puppets was a disappointment, but not nearly as disappointing as that third ratt album. slayer was what was painted on the back of all the stoners leather jackets, that and venom.

― keith m (keithmcl), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah Azagthoth is pretty dorky - for lack of a better term. His "thanx list" inside their newest album is nothing but :)'s and stuff like that. And he even thanks his "Quake 3" buddies. Which is some sort of role-playing computer game I believe.

Dude wrote the riffs in "Rebel Lands" and "Immortal Rites" so he's cool to me either way.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:35 (twenty-two years ago)

There aren't enough threads about the evil glory of Venom on ILM, I find.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:37 (twenty-two years ago)

Which Venom album Alex? And which Metal Church album? Please advise, as we say here at work.

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Slayer are winning this hands down aren't they?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'd always choose At War with Satan (specifically for "Rip Ride"), but I also loved the live tracks on the Canadian Assault e.p. (notably when Mantas replicates Griegs "In the Hall of the Mountain King" during "In Nomine Satanas".

I was never that into Metal Church, but I had The Dark, which hasn't aged well at all.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:45 (twenty-two years ago)

A great Venom album for a tyro to start with?

― the music mole (colin s barrow), Friday, 20 February 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

As i said in the other thread TS: Sepultura - Roots Vs Metallica - Black Album Vs Anthrax - Sound Of White Noise vs Megadeth - Countdown To extinction. The So Called "Sell-Out" albums
Noone has ever accused Slayer of selling out. So have never pissed their fans off quite so much.

― Rock Bastard, Friday, 20 February 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Before Reign in Blood came out I had always known Slayer as this band that had ads for their low-budget looking Metal Blade albums in the back pages of Circus magazine, along with like Cirith Ungol, Cryptic Slaughter, Bitch, Lizzy Borden, shit like that.

Banzai Records in Canada was incredible...they handled the Canadian releases for Megaforce, Metal Blade, Noise, basically every important underground metal label out there in the early 80s.

I bought Slayer's Haunting the Chapel in the fall of 1984. The Banzai version was cool, the first side had the EP, and side 2 had Live Undead.

― abegrand, Friday, 20 February 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

A great Venom album for a tyro to start with?

Hmmm, a difficult one, this. It's my experience that people who weren't even born yet when Venom released it's classic threesome can only burst out laughing when encountering this badly produced, badly played music that was once so of influence nowadays. Familiar with Hellhammer or the first two by Voivod? It's all in that mode.

Nevertheless, here's for trying:

Welcome to Hell (1981)
- Mixture between Motorhead and seventies punk, still high on energy.
Black Metal (1982)
- Nothing loud anymore with this one, but the moody, gloomy atmosphere is still scary. Good songs also. Some even became melodic with age.
At War With Satan (1984)
- The realm of chaos. A band trying to develop (check the 20 minute title-track), sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail. Therefore IMHO this isn't the best point to start.

These albums have been re-released on cd, including bonustracks taken from singles, ep's and demo-sessions. They're cheap, so grab them!

― Roger T (Roger T), Friday, 20 February 2004 10:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Master Of Puppets" is a great album. Good songs, phenomenal riffs, no dud tracks. It's almost impossible to be a metalhead and dislike this album. I can't think of any reason why it was revolutionary in any way though. Metallica were one of many bands working within the same paradigm - they might've been the best but still they didn't really turn the metal world upside down (at least not since "Kill 'Em All"). "Reign In Blood" however, despite its flaws, DID and turned out to be the gateway/catalyst to metal's most prolific and interesting period (1985-1995) so for that alone it's no contest. "Master of Puppets" made every metalhead buy the album, "Reign In Blood" made everybody start a new band.

― Siegbran (eofor), Friday, 20 February 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Venom - In League With Satan - 42 track anthology, I got it for about 8 quid in a HMV sale.

Are Celtic Frost and Voivod worth tracking down?

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 20 February 2004 17:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Voivod's Dimension Hatross and Nothingface are a couple of phenomenal albums.

As for Celtic Frost, To Mega Therion is probably their best, though "Dethroned Emperor", from Morbid Tales, is one of my faves from them. Gotta love the mangled English by Tom G. Warrior: "DEATH-roned Em-PARE-or!!!"

― abegrand, Friday, 20 February 2004 17:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Metallica used to be my favourite band in the world when i was a kid (late 80's/early 90's), but i wasn't very keen on Slayer. this thread made me put on Master of Puppets for the first time in 11 years or so!

i'm going with Reign in Blood, which i now play regularly (about as often as i play Arise, actually).

― tod (tod), Friday, 20 February 2004 18:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Siegbran is right. Completely right. Though I actually started a band for Metallica. I never felt I could top Slayer - I learned the importance of a catchy riff though for sure. I felt I could build on what I learned from Metallica though... the perfectly played and layered guitars and that crunch!

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Friday, 20 February 2004 18:35 (twenty-two years ago)

What Kerrang Thought Was Best In 1986

― Metal Stats, Saturday, 21 February 2004 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I suppose Siegbran is pretty much OTM. Master of Puppets was basically a refinement of previous accomplishments (essentially a remake of Ride the Lightning) while Reign in Blood was a quantum leap into the unknown . That said, I still slightly prefer Puppets. But only slightly.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Slayer actually did get their fair bit of criticism for the "Undisputed Attitude" album, which arguably was quite a cynical attempt at cashing in on the punk hype of the day. While no-one denied that Slayer loved the old hardcore/punk, it was seen as covering up the (then unfashionable) fact that they started out as an Iron Maiden/Judas Priest/Venom cover band.

― Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 21 February 2004 13:55 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm going for reign in blood since 1 i frigging hate metallica and 2 reign in blood sounds punkah to me.

― nathalie (nathalie), Saturday, 21 February 2004 14:00 (twenty-two years ago)

C'mon. Felix Griffin's drumming on the early DRI albums was the reason Lombardo played the way he did on Reign In Blood. Plus I never remembering anyone wanting to hear Slayer play Iron Maiden. The idea of them doing a DRI or a Suicidal Tendencies song was fucking exciting.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Saturday, 21 February 2004 17:42 (twenty-two years ago)

Slayer playing "I'd Rather Be Sleeping" would just sound like Slayer. They'd sound kinda weak playing a Maiden song. And I bet they'd be bored.

I think the problem with Undisputed Attitude was the song selection. The new Napalm Death cover album looks like it might be a good one. I know they were doing Sepultura, Cryptic Slaughter, Dayglo Abortions, and I think maybe Agnostic Front.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Saturday, 21 February 2004 17:51 (twenty-two years ago)

This useless argument is tantamount to comparing "Led Zeppelin IV" with Black Sabbath's "Paranoid": Same year, same genre, but vastly different albums and effects on future generations of musicians.

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Saturday, 21 February 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

For a start, I think Undisputed Attitude is fucking amazing (not least for the Minor Threat covers). Secondly, while the main point of your argument is probably accurate (that it was a cash-in), let's remember that Jeff Hanneman was displaying Pil, DRI, Anti-Pasti, Black Flag and DK's stickers on his guitar long before Undisputed.. came out. Thirdly, at least they played some comparatively obscure/esoteric material (I'd hardly call "Richard Hung Himself" by D.I. a predictable or cliched choice).

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not denying that Alex - as I said above, Hannemans love for punk was well known and I too was very interested in hearing Slayer do Minor Threat and GBH, but I do think that in comparison, Metallica's choice of covers was a lot more representative of the width of the band's influences than Undisputed Attitude. Even up to the "Reign In Blood" days the band played Venom, Priest and Maiden covers live, yet by the time UA came out all they talked about in interviews was their "punk roots". But on the whole, that's a tiny thing - I still have massive respect for Slayer; even though I've gone through periods where I feared the band was going down the System Of A Down-shitter, they always delivered the goods in the end. I can only think of a handful of other metal bands that pulled that off as long as they have.

― Siegbran (eofor), Saturday, 21 February 2004 23:50 (twenty-two years ago)

the System of a Down shitter.
Care to explain that particular brand of toilet?
― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Saturday, 21 February 2004 23:55 (twenty-two years ago)

System Of A Down?? I'm getting a really bad feeling... Aren't they gone yet?? When are those motherfuckers leaving??
― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Sunday, 22 February 2004 02:09 (twenty-two years ago)

THE ITALICS THAT SHOULD NOT BE. *nur-nur-nur-NUR!*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 22 February 2004 02:11 (twenty-two years ago)

What the fucks up with that??

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Sunday, 22 February 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Everyone talks about Hanneman's love of punk. But its Lombardo's love of punk that changed Slayer's sound so much between Hell Awaits and Reign In Blood. And to this day Kerry King writes much more punk-sounding songs than Hanneman.

― Johnny Badlees (crispssssss), Sunday, 22 February 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

teeny: which is better, reign in blood or master of puppets?
mr teeny: master of puppets.
teeny: good, but what about 'fade to black'
mr teeny: piece of shit.
teeny: but it was on master of puppets.
mr teeny: yeah, I thought it was a joke, I laughed my ass off the first time I heard it. Thus, master of puppets.

― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 22 February 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Fade to Black is on Ride the Lightning.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 22 February 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I was about to say, the Teenys have not shown their rock knowledge.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 22 February 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Their brains are Teeny.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 22 February 2004 04:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Next up: Garage Days Re-Visited-Vs-Undisputed Attitude

I'll take Garage Days. The last great shining moment of a shining star that would turn to shit.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 22 February 2004 05:17 (twenty-two years ago)

A shitting star?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 22 February 2004 05:37 (twenty-two years ago)

three years pass...

Okay: how is it I ONLY JUST REALIZED "Master of Puppets" is about cocaine? Apparently I've just heard it 80 million times without ever noticing the "chop your breakfast on a mirror" line.

― nabisco, Saturday, 24 November 2007 20:50 (eighteen years ago)

Or I guess drugs in general ("needlework"), but still, I have not been paying attention here

― nabisco, Saturday, 24 November 2007 20:53 (eighteen years ago)

Hard to say for me. Both are two of my favorite metal albums of all time.

I have to give a slight nod to Reign in Blood for its sheer ferocity. It comes across like a thrash overture in three movements--the first 5 songs represent the first movement, as all of them pretty much flow into each other without stopping, and are thematically similar in intensity.

Songs 6-8 are the second movement, as they are catchier, but slower and less intense thrash numbers to provide the calm before the storm, which is movement three, the final two songs.

― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:02 (eighteen years ago)

my wife heard raining blood for the first time last night playing guitar hero iii. she crushed it

― Billy Pilgrim, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:14 (eighteen years ago)

Master of Puppets is too much for me these days. I haven't listened to my own copy in years. But I have to admit it sounded fucking awesome on my friend's car stereo after that Sunn O))) gig last year. Rocking out to 'Leper Messiah' with the windows down in the middle of Dublin at midnight was sweet.

However, I much prefer Reign in Blood. It's just killer from beginning to end. Nothing Slayer did before or since could match it.

― MacDara, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:44 (eighteen years ago)

I think South of Heaven is almost as good, actually

― latebloomer, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:50 (eighteen years ago)

I think I go through Reign in Blood phases and Master of Puppets phases. I'm in a Puppets phase right now.

― latebloomer, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:56 (eighteen years ago)

Okay: how is it I ONLY JUST REALIZED "Master of Puppets" is about cocaine? Apparently I've just heard it 80 million times without ever noticing the "chop your breakfast on a mirror" line

What did you think it was about? Puppeteering?

The main riff of "South of Heaven" is godlike.

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, 24 November 2007 21:58 (eighteen years ago)

Slayer's supreme albums are Hell Awaits, Reign in Blood, South of Heaven, and Divine Intervention (very underrated, in my opinion)...and of course the godly Haunting the Chapel.

I hated God Hates Us All and very much disliked Christ Illusion though

― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Saturday, 24 November 2007 22:29 (eighteen years ago)

I did consider South of Heaven, and in my opinion it's the second record thing Slayer have ever done, but to me it's still a step behind Reign in Blood.

I like songs they've done since then, but their albums are such a sludge to get through. I bought God Hates Us All but listened to it a total of, two times maybe? In contrast, I could still spin Reign maybe six or seven times in a single afternoon, miming all the solos.

― MacDara, Sunday, 25 November 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

And of course, 'second record thing' should be 'second best record'.

― MacDara, Sunday, 25 November 2007 10:59 (eighteen years ago)

What did you think it was about? Puppeteering?

To be fair, the album cover doesn't reflect the content of the song. It's like a combination of the songs "Master of Puppets" and "Disposable Heroes."

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Sunday, 25 November 2007 12:58 (eighteen years ago)

ok wait

my wife heard raining blood for the first time last night playing guitar hero iii. she crushed it

-- Billy Pilgrim, Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:14 PM

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 25 November 2007 13:29 (eighteen years ago)

i know. to be fair it was only on medium but she has fast fingers

― Billy Pilgrim, Sunday, 25 November 2007 22:28 (eighteen years ago)

I played MoP before going out to a bar last night and when I got there the first thing I saw was the album sleeve on the back of some dude's hoodie. I thought it was pretty cool although the dude turned out to be our city's local 'street celebrity'/nutbar so he probably stole it from someone's chair

― DJ Mencap, Monday, 26 November 2007 00:16 (eighteen years ago)

Killing Technology (vinyl track listing)

All 3 of those albums are perfect.

― Nate Carson, Monday, 26 November 2007 12:09 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

Listening to MOP for the first time in probably almost 20 years... Leper Messiah at this very moment... and this is so fucking good, I clearly forgot how good. Fucking Godhead.

― Mister Jim, Friday, 7 May 2010 04:18 (fifteen years ago)

Fuck it all and fucking no regrets...noj.sumthing.. Blood will follow blood... DYing time is here...

― Mister Jim, Friday, 7 May 2010 04:30 (fifteen years ago)

four years pass...

Okay: how is it I ONLY JUST REALIZED "Master of Puppets" is about cocaine? Apparently I've just heard it 80 million times without ever noticing the "chop your breakfast on a mirror" line

What did you think it was about? Puppeteering?

― Alex in NYC, Saturday, November 24, 2007 3:58 PM (7 years ago)

masters, mostly

― j., Tuesday, 5 May 2015 20:29 (ten years ago)

three weeks pass...

Just came across this. Someone with way too much time on their hands has taken the studio original of 'Master of Puppets' and replaced all the snare hits with the St. Anger snare drum sound.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=108&v=Xui06jwWaAM

― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Thursday, 28 May 2015 18:19 (ten years ago)

two years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLsYHpaKfXY

― chap, Sunday, 5 November 2017 15:35 (eight years ago)

lol as i was watching that i was like "say what you will about lars but the fills in this song are fuckin tasty" and then they took a break to celebrate lars

― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 5 November 2017 15:53 (eight years ago)

They also do Raining Blood, aptly, but I haven't watched it yet.

― chap, Sunday, 5 November 2017 15:54 (eight years ago)

three years pass...

Master
Master

― calstars, Sunday, 7 March 2021 01:25 (five years ago)

two years pass...

Nice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gddYsOFGL1s

― 50 Favorite Jordans (Jordan), Friday, 8 September 2023 15:08 (two years ago)

Hetfield is usually doing so much between singing and playing those riffs that just playing that simple part in the first half has an actor's "I don't know what to do with my hands" energy

― 50 Favorite Jordans (Jordan), Friday, 8 September 2023 15:11 (two years ago)

That middle section harmony

― calstars, Friday, 8 September 2023 17:46 (two years ago)

Youtube has been recommending me a bunch of Metallica related videos lately. Someone has been pouring money into the algorithm to make Metallica cool again. Mostly videos about the lack of bass on “ride the lightning” and Jason being the most level headed member.

Saw a couple of videos were Ulrich comes across as the uncoolest spoiled brat tho. He is such an unlikable dude:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj_8E3FOU4s

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 8 September 2023 18:37 (two years ago)

#istandwithlars #teamlars

― 50 Favorite Jordans (Jordan), Friday, 8 September 2023 18:46 (two years ago)

Lol I mean I don’t think he is a bad drummer - despite what some haters say - and he’s probably one of the best businessmen in the genre. I just think he is very unlikable as a person.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 8 September 2023 18:48 (two years ago)

Agree
But without Lars’ businessman motivation and drive there would be no band

― calstars, Friday, 8 September 2023 20:13 (two years ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8A4bz6xSo

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 8 September 2023 20:20 (two years ago)

Agree
But without Lars’ businessman motivation and drive there would be no band

― calstars

Yeah I agree completely. Isn’t he the owner of Metallica?

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Friday, 8 September 2023 20:28 (two years ago)

Lars’ frosted tips phase

― calstars, Friday, 8 September 2023 21:46 (two years ago)

My thing with Slayer and alot of thrash was after it got so fast, it all kind of sounded the same to me as it all had that drill snare groove. To me, Slayer was more interesting when they actually slowed down a bit. Then again the whole horror movie aspect that became metal, was never a thing I liked either.

― earlnash, Friday, 8 September 2023 21:55 (two years ago)

I like the contrast, fast / slightly less fast

― calstars, Friday, 8 September 2023 22:23 (two years ago)

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