Pazz & Jop Tokenism

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Is it your point that this level of mentioning-Outkast-and-nothing-else is evidence of COLLECTIVE liberal guilt/racist marginalization/genre snobbishness/tokenism? This would certainly appear possible, even likely. But by identifying the specific critics you commit the logical fallacy of reasoning backwards deductively from a conclusion you've arrived at inductively. Is any SPECIFIC critic on this list guilty of tokenism? Prove it! Is it impossible for a specific critic to believe, sans tokenism, that the only hip-hop album among the year's ten best is S/TLB? Of course not.

Is it your point that these critics' lists "should" contain more than one rap/hip-hop album because several rap albums are self-evidently worthy of mention? Says who?

The only hip-hop albums I heard last year that would or might make, say, my top 20 are S/TLB, the Lyrics Born album, and the Dizzee Rascal album. "Hip-hop's corny now," sez Jay-Z, and I concur. Contemporary rap, like contemporary country music, is not an artistically robust genre, and won't be until a significant, smart and/or innovative, marginal, marginally popular, identifiably alt-rap-kinda subgenre emerges. (The Bay Area scene shows some promise on this front, but it's slim pickins at best.)

― Michael Vaughn, Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:03 (twenty-two years ago)

That's nice.

― Sym (shmuel), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Wrong thread, but you did prove my point about a great deal of S/TLB fans retreating to that record while griping about how stagnant mainstream rap is.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The Bay Area scene shows some promise on this front, but it's slim pickins at best.

http://www.spoothe.com/2001/art/slim_pickens_bomb.jpg

"Time to drop DA BOMB."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:28 (twenty-two years ago)

The Bay Area scene shows some promise on this front

Yes, I hear there is an up-and-coming crew known as the "Hieroglyphics" that may very well begin to turn heads soon

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:32 (twenty-two years ago)

Contemporary rap, like contemporary country music, is not an artistically robust genre, and won't be until a significant, smart and/or innovative, marginal, marginally popular, identifiably alt-rap-kinda subgenre emerges. (The Bay Area scene shows some promise on this front, but it's slim pickins at best.)

Was there any time in the past 20 years that critics weren't saying this?

― Sym (shmuel), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

"Rap is nothing, or not enough." Lester Bangs, ca. 1982

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 19:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"Rap is nothing, or not enough." Lester Bangs, ca. 1982

In 1982 that was more true than false. In 1989 it would've been laughably false. In 2004 the problem may be not that rap is nothing, but that it's exhausted, the province of dumbasses (the first 7,998,000) and pomo-damaged scenesters and jock-sniffers (the last "critical" couple thousand).

― Michael Vaughn, Saturday, 21 February 2004 20:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Michael, do you know of a song called "We're Famous"?

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 20:35 (twenty-two years ago)

"I'm keeping their puppy styles in the Company Flow kennels
But since they had no identity from the start
They started to resent the scene when they couldn't become a part"

cf: the internet circa 1994, when it was still like a library 60% of whose books are about library science

or...
rock circa 1974, when all of a sudden every other rock song was about rock

Not that I have anything against self-referentialism. But I must be going...

― Michael Vaughn, Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Rap is great right now. great mainstream and underground records are coming out all the time. If you're dissatisfied with hip hop right now you aren't looking hard enough or are deaf.

― joshd, Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I hear there is an up-and-coming crew known as the "Hieroglyphics" that may very well begin to turn heads soon

You haven't heard this brand new crew called Digital Underground!?

― djdee2005, Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually I was thinking of the line about "critics sayin' 'hip-hop's over'"...

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

country is great right now too. this dude is snoozing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm afraid to ask what music he thinks IS interesting right now, if not hip hop.

― djdee2005, Saturday, 21 February 2004 21:17 (twenty-two years ago)

at long last, an oasis of corny indie fuckitude on ILM. oh wait.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Sunday, 22 February 2004 06:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I found out last night that my stepmom got my Dad Speakerboxxx/The Love Below for Valentine's Day, cause he loves "Hey Ya!" (as do I). Haven't had a chance to ask him what he thinks of the other, um, 38 songs yet. Maybe he'll like the one with Norah Jones (his other present).

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Sunday, 22 February 2004 20:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, I hear there is an up-and-coming crew known as the "Hieroglyphics" that may very well begin to turn heads soon

You haven't heard this brand new crew called Digital Underground!?

Shit, that stuff is played out. Bay Area rap is all about this guy named Too Short now....He has this song called Freaky Tales that is reaaally dirrrty.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 22 February 2004 21:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Dirtier than the World Class Wreckin' Cru?!

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Even dirtier than The Egyptian Lover!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:39 (twenty-two years ago)

oh, wait, World Class Wreckin' Cru are LA, right? I'm just trying to get the idea of non-NYC hip-hop straight, really.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Monday, 23 February 2004 04:59 (twenty-two years ago)

yep..that was dre's old crew....egyptian lover was la too...I guess we got off topic....um let's bring it back to the bay....it's even dirtier than Bigg Ocean Mobb 415!!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Monday, 23 February 2004 05:23 (twenty-two years ago)

"I'm afraid to ask what music he thinks IS interesting right now, if not hip hop."

Since you asked, youngster,--and assuming by "interesting" you mean "good--here is what my 2003 ballot would've looked like:

1) The Shins--Chutes Too Narrow (6)
2) Bonnie "Prince" Billy--Master and Everyone (113)
3) Kings of Leon--Youth and Young Manhood (26)
4) Cat Power--You Are Free (14)
5) Calexico--Feast of Wire (82)
6) Juana Molina--Segundo (91)
7) Lyrics Born--Later That Day... (45)
8) Ted Leo and the Pharmacists--Hearts of Oak (20)
9) Songs:Ohia--Magnolia Electric Company (110)
10) Jay Farrar--Terroir Blues (960)

()=Village Voice Pazz & Jop 2003 ranking

― Michael Vaughn, Monday, 23 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, that says it all I think.

― djdee2005, Monday, 23 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Maybe it's a good thing you didn't submit a ballot. Nine of those ten records would send me screaming from the building (the exception being Lyrics Born).

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Monday, 23 February 2004 20:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I like 2, 4, and 5 quite a bit.

and WTF no Hail to the Thief WTF

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 23 February 2004 20:53 (twenty-two years ago)

please take what I said earlier about corny indie fuckitude . . . and DOUBLE IT!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Since you asked, youngster,--and assuming by "interesting" you mean "good"

You're a clever young man.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:06 (twenty-two years ago)

where the fuck is trife when you need him?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:08 (twenty-two years ago)

omg lol!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

where the fuck is trife when you need him?

See those legs kicking in the air? That's him doubled up with laughter.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

see, you get what you ask for

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, Jay Farrar, man? try harder next year!

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Ha! I'm curious about that Jay Farrar album, his last one was a total sleeper. But he is the rock critic's wet dream, I understand the backlash.

― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

"please take what I said earlier about corny indie fuckitude . . . and DOUBLE IT!"

corny indie fuckitude vs pomo-damaged scenesters and jock-sniffers: compare and contrast

"Ha! I'm curious about that Jay Farrar album, his last one was a total sleeper. But he is the rock critic's wet dream, I understand the backlash."

Actually, this album got crapped on by the critics. My opinion of his stuff has gone up from album to album, even as his critical reputation has fallen steadily since the (overrated) Son Volt days.

― yada yada yada, Monday, 23 February 2004 21:34 (twenty-two years ago)

oh my god you still use the word POMO!?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

omg lol!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:38 (twenty-two years ago)

"Nine of those ten records would send me screaming from the building..."

Shall I infer that this would be a bad thing?

― DJ Dubya, Monday, 23 February 2004 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

best troll evah

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Monday, 23 February 2004 21:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Since you asked, youngster,--and assuming by "interesting" you mean "good"
You're a clever young man.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), February 23rd, 2004.

I fucked up and left the close-quotes off the word "good," yet, miraculously, there they are in your quote. Good catch, Ned. Excellent proofreading.

― Michael Vaughn, Monday, 23 February 2004 23:31 (twenty-two years ago)

ILM now has its own walking and talking strawman, here with his unique rendtion of "If I Only Had a Brain".

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 01:57 (twenty-two years ago)

what's his beef again? i fell asleep.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 01:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Something about quotation marks.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 02:01 (twenty-two years ago)

god, i thought i was bored.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 02:03 (twenty-two years ago)

please take what I said earlier about corny indie fuckitude . . . and DOUBLE IT!

LMAO!

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Tuesday, 24 February 2004 04:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I read this as "Jazz or Pop Tolkienism". As you were, gentlemen.

― Leonard Nimoy, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 05:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Would that mean we'd have to talk about Led Zeppelin?

― djdee2005, Tuesday, 24 February 2004 07:52 (twenty-two years ago)

I see that in another thread some of you are already busily dismissing the excellent Kanye West album as insufficiently, I dunno, hardcore or something.

Sheesh.

Let's see. Maybe your problem isn't that you like hip-hop, but that you like shitty hip-hop. My advice to the, eh, professional critics among y'all, which you shan't take, of course: Listen to whatever you enjoy, but consider another line of work (or, more accurately, find another hobby).

― MV, Thursday, 26 February 2004 15:45 (twenty-two years ago)

worst use of y'all and shan't ever!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 15:57 (twenty-two years ago)

y'all shant fucketh with I

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Thursday, 26 February 2004 16:02 (twenty-two years ago)

yes yes y'all, and you shan't stop!

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 17:15 (twenty-two years ago)

So you've graduated from proofreaders to copyeditors? Congratulations; I understand that's two desks closer to the window.

Just a guess: You're mostly 27-35-year-old white, single guys, except for one crucial black guy who's cooler than the rest of you and functions as your alpha male. You've spent so long talking to each other and agreeing with each other that it strikes none of you as at all odd to believe that the quintuple-platinum overproduced stuff you champion is cutting-edge while some hardscrabble labor of love or genius (oops, "No Geniuses"; I forgot)that sells twenty thousand copies represents convention or the status quo.

― MV, y'all, Thursday, 26 February 2004 19:59 (twenty-two years ago)

I presume you're so familiar with this proposed scenario due to experience.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:01 (twenty-two years ago)

who is the ilx alpha male?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Are Wilco fans just BORN without a sense of humor or is it more of a learned behaviour?

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:04 (twenty-two years ago)

"do you have an army of people helping you not get it?!"

― cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm sure this geezer would have been slating rap in 1989, give him 14 years to wash any chances of him associating hiphop with people around him away and he'll be crunking it like a polaroid picture.

― Ronan (Ronan), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Wilco? Dunno. I'm not a Wilco fan.

― Ya'llqui Foxtrotsky, Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:08 (twenty-two years ago)

"Father, forgive him."

http://ox.eicat.ca/~scarruthers/ilx/pope-dan.jpg

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:12 (twenty-two years ago)

b-b-b-but mr. strawman, you're heading for the candle! mr. strawman! NOOOOO!!!!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:18 (twenty-two years ago)

http://ox.eicat.ca/~scarruthers/ilx/4ned.jpg

― Pap. Palpate. Papal. Bull, Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:31 (twenty-two years ago)

so this new dude is a completely different dude than the dude who started this thread and listed all the boring trad/alt/crap up top? damn, this thread is like flypaper for cranks or something.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:41 (twenty-two years ago)

no, same dude

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:42 (twenty-two years ago)

How did we get saddled with a one crucial black guy who likes the Cure, then? :(

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:44 (twenty-two years ago)

haha yeah our crucial black guy likes the Cure and old rave and choral music! what an ALPHA MALE!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Then I'm the beta male and the rest of you are scum. Woo!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Can we trade him back for the one who liked Death Cab For Cutie and wrote the long posts? OMG YOU NEVER SEE THEM TOGETHER ITS ALL TRUE!!

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:46 (twenty-two years ago)

and what about our alpha black FEMALE, Donna Brown?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Well she IS cooler than the rest of us, so.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm still trying to figure out in what universe Kanye's "labor of love" only sells 20,000? Or the thread in which it's receiving a majority of pans? Or maybe that post was talking about something else, I'm confused.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:48 (twenty-two years ago)

no, he's talking about the fake field recordings that populate the bulk of his top ten

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn it, this's happened everytime I've crashed an online cabal like this. I end up concluding you're all sadder than I am and feeling sorry for you.

― MV, Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:54 (twenty-two years ago)

when i saw that list i smelled wilco-fandom. my apologies. (for calling you a wilco fan and for that list)

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:55 (twenty-two years ago)

yknow corny indie fuxx like mv are worthless when they don't actually know their indie

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean seriously - that cat power record is a bone for the mallrats

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:56 (twenty-two years ago)

I agree that Donna is cool, but how come none of you ever critique her very indie-rock tastes? *ducks*

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

wilco's drummer is awesome!

search:
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDCASS70311061825440045&sql=Ak1sqoaqaqijd

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

cuz we got nothing against indie rock, just against corny indie fuxx?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i mean i got nothing but luv for gygax and hstencil too

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

or hell, jess

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 20:59 (twenty-two years ago)

isn't kochke outta the group now?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:00 (twenty-two years ago)

3) Kings of Leon--Youth and Young Manhood (26)

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:01 (twenty-two years ago)

Damn it, this's happened everytime I've crashed an online cabal like this
Crashing an online cabal, repeatedly baiting and insulting everybody on it, and failing to make friends. What a shocking turn of events!

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, and talk about sad.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, well, that makes me feel a bit better!

No, Kotche was the guy who took over for Ken Coombes right before YHF. Far as I know, he's still in the band.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:05 (twenty-two years ago)

cinniblount otm. corny indie fuckitude /= liking indie rock, just like rockism /= liking rock music.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:11 (twenty-two years ago)

I like Pavement!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Me too!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I like JAY FARRAR!!!!!!

― gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

I do love how a guy who rails against this board for "championing overproduced quintuple-platinum" records started this thread to take on what he perceives as a collective problem against . . . Speakerboxxx/The Love Below!

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i'm a HUGE pavement fan!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm listening to Depeche Mode right now. weren't they an indie band once?

there are three cases where i tend to exhibit troll-ish tendencies on ILM. Wilco/The Soft Bulletin/Smashing Pumpkins

it's probably best to ignore whatever i have to say about those 3 things if you are a fan. There is no reasoning with me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

xpost

outkast just can't get a break these days. it's a shame, really.

I like pavement.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:16 (twenty-two years ago)

gygax i love u but yr totally bananas

― Yanc3y (ystrickler), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I thought about trying to marshall an argument for this guy against the "online cabal," but then I realized he makes no sense. That and the Kings of Leon thing.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

you really really really hate Kings of Leon, don't you Chris? (nothing against that, just noted)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:18 (twenty-two years ago)

but I love pavement!

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The amount of music you would have to actually wilfully avoid to put Kings Of Leon in your Top Ten AND be self-righteous about it is surely huge.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:21 (twenty-two years ago)

My two bete noires (betes noires? it's been a long time since I took french) are Elvis Costello and Tom Waits. Other than that I love all instances of recorded sound.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked the pavement song on the grand royal comp

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well except Wilco, them too.

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Guided by Voices are my bad-touch spot; I'm sure there are others but that's a pretty major one. oh, and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, that too. (and Sea Change, I suppose, to some degree.)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:23 (twenty-two years ago)

trife, you mean the Groovebox comp?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Crashing an online cabal, repeatedly baiting and insulting everybody on it, and failing to make friends. What a shocking turn of events!

Maybe that is a generational difference between us, then. I don't see a public forum as an opportunity to make new friends, but as a sort of free-form anonymous debating society. Posting my own top ten list, by the way, is surely the most hands-open, heart-on-one's-sleeve gesture I can imagine. The response was predictable: a pep rally chant of group self-congratulation and circular reasoning.

And don't forget, what prompted my first post here was reading that hateful here-are-their-names-how-dare-they-like-only-Outkast list.

― MV, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:24 (twenty-two years ago)

MV in complete lack of reading comprehension shocker

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

the drum machine one w the popcorn remix!!!!!!!!

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:25 (twenty-two years ago)

it had a good synth line and pavement dude rapped

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:26 (twenty-two years ago)

so yeah the Groovebox one.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the name Michael Vaughn because it reminds me of that character on that show "Alias", the boring guy who Jennifer Garner pines after, the one who's married to that shady double agent.

it's not as good as "24" though.

anyway, carry on

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

it's not as good as "24" though

neither is this, probably. (nb. I have never seen 24)

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:29 (twenty-two years ago)

I've never heard that Groovebox comp, trife--never liked GR much as a label, healthy distrust of "themed" comps of all new material. but I love Pavement so I should probably hear that song at some point.

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:30 (twenty-two years ago)

also MV wouldn't you agree that your heart-on-sleeve maneuver is mitigated somewhat by your uber-snide addressing of the "youngster" your list was posted for?

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:32 (twenty-two years ago)

its a good comp!! my fav kind of indie is bouncy keyboard stuff of course but it also has some good rick wakeman-style moog fuckery and a depressing nick cave type song at the end that i remember liking too

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

btw im done w arguing w ppl for a while but this m.v. guy is hilarious so plz keep it up yall!!

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:33 (twenty-two years ago)

$$,

are there any indie records that you like in particular? (just curious)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

btw i meant that the comp is mostly bouncy keyb stuff which is my fav kind of indie

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

apples in stereo!!

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:35 (twenty-two years ago)

$$ did you ever hear DeathbombArc's No Limit tribute? You might laugh, you might cry, I dunno.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

haha umm...

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:36 (twenty-two years ago)

there's this indie tune called "Hey Ya" you might enjoy

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

MV -- you should have posted to the original thread, or at least read it, since there were plenty of people ON THE THREAD questioning both its validity and the act of listing the names ("the ILM sex-offenders registry"). This is really not as much of a self-congratulation society as you seem to think.

― chris herrington (chris herrington), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:37 (twenty-two years ago)

i have a money mark album! wait, i actually don't know if it's on grand royal. it might be on matador or something. but i like it. the keyboard repair one. they were selling boxes of them at tower for a dollar a piece.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:39 (twenty-two years ago)

also MV wouldn't you agree that your heart-on-sleeve maneuver is mitigated somewhat by your uber-snide addressing of the "youngster" your list was posted for?

Sure. And what does this mitigate, sonny?:

at long last, an oasis of corny indie fuckitude on ILM. oh wait.

― MV, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:40 (twenty-two years ago)

shut up.

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Of course, the ubermitigator is that this is all just a bunch of shmucks typing. No real harm accrues. Pretty sure I'm not going to get a cap popped on my ass, or whatever you kids call it these days.

― MV, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:46 (twenty-two years ago)

no really, shut up!

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Pretty sure I'm not going to get a cap popped on my ass, or whatever you kids call it these days.

no man, nowadays everyone's saying "wanna lead sandwich?"

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

You pronounce it 'sammich,' Matt.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:48 (twenty-two years ago)

oops! well, there goes all my street cred. : (

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:49 (twenty-two years ago)

Now, granted, I may not be "phat" enough to get "jiggy" with ILM but...

― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:50 (twenty-two years ago)

you can get jiggy we with me anytime!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

in england apparently they're big on kicks in the nuts

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

A hamburger sammich w/french fried potatoes.

"Here, stab this into your pie!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:51 (twenty-two years ago)

ned, I really respect your gangsta.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

i propose the phrase "five knuckle shuffle" be brought back RIGHT NOW

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:53 (twenty-two years ago)

The ones in I Accuse My Parents were my role models.

"We're gonna talk like this, see?"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I like "put 'em to sleep". This one time I was at this ribs place in the ghetto and some guy was harassing me for change, and the proprietor chased the guy away, turned to me and said "don't worry, I got enough lead behind the counter to put 'em all to sleep"

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i propose the phrase "five knuckle shuffle" be brought back RIGHT NOW

I second the motion.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Is MV really Fred Mills? No, wait, I don't think he hates black people that much..

― Broheems (diamond), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:55 (twenty-two years ago)

more rappers just need to slap each other. like big, fruity 19th century dandy slaps.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

haha brohemes i kiss you

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:56 (twenty-two years ago)

they need to give each other licks like in rock scissors paper

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:57 (twenty-two years ago)

and a little use of the word "umbrage" never hurt anyone.

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

more rappers just need to slap each other. like big, fruity 19th century dandy slaps.

"You're going DOWN, soldier boy!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:58 (twenty-two years ago)

i always thought "getting wet" was creepy. as in blood. getting wetted. i don't know why. caps and gats never bothered me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:00 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe cuz when i think about getting wet i usually don't think about being full of bullet holes i guess. yeah, that must be it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:01 (twenty-two years ago)

i think of andrew wk

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

and all my fly honeys

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I like the name Michael Vaughn because it reminds me of that character on that show "Alias", the boring guy who Jennifer Garner pines after, the one who's married to that shady double agent

Yeah, Vaughn is supposed to be a goody-goody CIA agent, not a dopey Shins-loving mentalist.

Sark should have started this thread instead.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:03 (twenty-two years ago)

"Sydney, I cannot back you up on this mission to Budapest because I have to see Kings of Leon tonight."

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I interviewed the guy that plays Marshall once...he's very funny. Good buddies with Jack Black. very short.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Is his head as disproportionately big in real life as it seems on the show?

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:27 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, he does have a pretty big melon.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:32 (twenty-two years ago)

I have arrived at this thread late, it seems, but not so late that it didn't make me laugh my fuckin' ass off. Excelsior!

― Begs2Differ (Begs2Differ), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:41 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm not trying to mitigate anything, daddy-o

― Matos W.K. (M Matos), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

dig.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Y'know, Kings of Leon notwithstanding, his top 10 list isn't so bad. His posts, OTOH, are moronic.

― Sym (shmuel), Friday, 27 February 2004 00:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Wipes tear from eye. Total hilarity.

― Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Friday, 27 February 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Late to the game, sorry. Uh... John Cena calls his fistdrop the "Five Knuckle Shuffle". He's a white dude from Massachussetts, though, so we have a ways to go.

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 27 February 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

trife do you like Stereolab?

― Nate in ST.P (natedetritus), Friday, 27 February 2004 03:16 (twenty-two years ago)

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