turntable help

DMV: Get a piece of notebook paper and roll it into a cone (.3" diameter on small end / 2" diameter on large end). Connect the safety pin to the small end and touch the point to a spinning record. You are now Edison, MUSIC IS MAGIC.

Any clue on what I can do?

If you can't figure it out, post the model numbers

I'm now using a Yamaha P-750 for the home. It sounds just great. However, it is loaded with buttons and knobs, and its manual has never been posted online. Anyway, there is a LOCK/FREE flipswitch by the base of the tonearm. I've farted around with the thing, but I don't know what it does. Help!

I'd imagine it is to lock it in place when you transport it so the tonearm doesn't get damaged.

Thanks. I'll try securing the tonearm in the clasp, then flipping the switch to LOCK -- see if that somehow locks it in there.

I have just purchased a Pro-Ject Debut III (partly due to people recommending it here) and am finding there's something weird about the tonearm/cartridge/needle/I'm not sure — I get this humming sound, mostly in the right channel. If I move the tonearm a little, especially if I lift it so it touches the anti-skating weight support hoop, I can usually get the hum to go away... but it comes back after a few minutes.

Does this sound familiar? Is there a way to fix it? Do I have to "adjust the azimut," whatever that is?

This is my first serious turntable — before I just had this old Garrard changer and didn't ever have to do any assembly or anything, just replaced the needle once or twice.

HEEEELLLLLPPPPP

Do you have the grounding wire connected? (little fork shape cable that runs beside the two phono connections - should screw on to a post on your amp/ phono stage)
If that's not it then it might be a loose connection from the arm to the cartridge - 4 connectors with fiddly little sleeves that fit over 4 posts on the cartridge; try touching them one by one and see if the hum changes or goes away...

Thanks for your reply. The grounding wire is connected. If I touch the metal screws connecting the tonearm to the cartridge, the hum reduces but doesn't quite disappear. Touching the sleeves (black, rubbery things?) makes the hum louder.

Ok - without hearing the hum, its hard to tell (and might be hard to tell anyway) if it doesn't entirely disappear when you touch anything on the cartridge, it suggests a more fundamental earthing problem; if you've just bought this, the safest - and cheapest - thing might be to bring it back to the shop, and either get a replacement or get them to fix it......

I just had a similar problem and it ended up being an internal ground in the cartridge itself. Replacing the cartridge solved it....if it's a good shop they should definitely be willing to replace or fix.

I have a Rega so I'm not sure exactly how the Pro-Ject's ground out...the Rega ground internally in the arm...so it could be a number of things but maybe if you have another old cartridge around it might be worth throwing it on just to see if that solves it.

Thanks again.... I ordered the turntable from NeedleDoctor, which makes returning it a hassle, but I'll probably do that since even the prospect of replacing the cartridge frightens me terribly. (NeedleDoctor provide a link to this Beginner's Guide, but just the list of "tools at a glance" is intimidating.)

Just read the guide....... have the say, I've changed cartridges without a tweezers loads of times but it makes sense to use one; is there anyone local who does repairs who could swap the cartridge if just to eliminate that?

'have to say'

Hey guys I've got a Pioneer PL-990. My cat knocked it off the stack last night and I think the motor might be fucked up: the platter is spinning v irregularly. I thought I might just need to rethread the belt, so I did, but no dice.

Any other suggestions? If it is the motor, is it cheaper to get a motor and repair/have it repaired, or do I just need a new turntable?

i'm getting a cat

pics or its not true

HALP u guys

In case you want to geek out - http://www.vinylengine.com

A repair might work, but it's going to cost you parts and labor and you'll still be left with a Pioneer deck. Double your costs and you could end up with something much better—for example,

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-Turntables-Debut-III-Basic-Black?sc=2&category=352

hoos, kinda echoing michael, but yeah getting them fixed is tough. very few places fix turntables anymore, don't know abt your city.

if you don't want to step up to the 300+ range, like the Rega P1 (which i own) or the Pro-Ject, then i'd definitely check craigslist you can find some great deals on there.

remedial turntable question: with an old, 80s all-in-one cassette/turntable unit, will a microphone input work as a line-in/auxiliary setting? would i be able to run music from a computer through the stereo? and is there a big disadvantage in it being a single jack input, rather than a dual phono red/white input?

I would try it, but most mic imputs are a lower impedance level than line inputs. some of those older systems have built-in preamps though. the jack is probably 1/4" stereo, but it might be mono (which might also be a problem for you).

ehh, i think i might just go for it. there's always headphones if not. thank you.

i bought this, by the way, it being small enough to fit my needs and also being really cool. i was shocked - SHOCKED - to see how cheap stereos are generally on ebay, though; anything without a cd player, even if it's separates with a turntable and decent speakers, can be had for >$75, inc. shipping.

anyone got any experience with packing and shipping a turntable overseas?

it's a thorens td 160 in exc

I have an experience receiving turntables sent air mail.

Dust covers shattered, a lag (in the spinning part) in both of them which never really went away, and unsurprisingly little foam/air bags in the box.

Should have known, the guy's name was Elvis Santana.

ouch

did you get a refund?

At a minimum you need to strip the thing down. Most important is to take the platter off. I'd pack it under the turntable where it can do the least harm

There are also sometimes shipping screws for the suspension accessed from under the turntable. If you don't have a manual for the 160, sometimes you can get one online. Tightening the screws will immobilize and protect the suspension.

Tie down, or tape down the tonearm to the support so that it can't get loose and damage itself or the stylus.

If the stylus has a cover, pop it into place, or take the stylus out if that's easily done. Some styli come as an insert that is removable from the larger cartridge.

Unscrew the counterweight from the tonearm.

In a perfect world, think about shipping the plexiglass cover separately. They're fragile and crack/scratch easily; if you don't pack well, the turntable (and especially the platter) can shift around and damage them.

Xpost, we sent back the non-working mixer and got much more than it was worth. I managed to get two years of use out of those turntables though, although there were always good and bad days with them.

If you have an original box they came in, preferably with appropriate fitting pieces of styrofoam that keep it in place, I imagine that would be a good receptacle.

thanks michael, just what I was looking for

reposted from another thread (threads, actually, my mistake(s))

I think I'm going to get a new set of Shure cartridges
I'm looking at these and realizing that it might be worth the extra 17 (X 2) dollars to step up to something better, namely the M44-7, especially if it's going to have a significantly longer life than a more entry level cartridge.

I really don't know anything about needles, I'm changing them now because I got a pair that came with used turntables and I'm afraid they're worn out (there's skipping here and there, sometimes I have to raise the counterweight, etc.), but ultimately I have no idea. I'm not playing at clubs or on a HiFi system, so I'm not sure (not shure?) what difference it ultimately makes for someone like myself.

― EDB, Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:32 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's going to wise to change your cartridges if they've seen a lot of use as they wear down, and eventually get to a point where they might start damaging your records.

Always set the weight of the cartridge to the maximum recommended by the manufacturer - less weight could mean the arm may bounce up and down, again damaging records. As a general rule, hi-fi carts are set to around 1.5g, house and techno DJ carts where some back-cueing is used are around 3.5, and scratch DJs will use at least 5g to lessen the possibility of skipping.

Records skipping can sometimes just mean the records are damaged of course.

It's always good to have some spare cartridges around just in case anyway - they'll last virtaully a lifetime if not used.

I'm sure you know this, but for anyone who doesn't:

http://www.ehow.com/how_4886060_set-turntable-tracking-weight.html

Actually ignore that - it's good up until point 4, which seems plain wrong. Just turn the counterweight to the required number which should correspond to the weight you are after. If setting DJ tracking weights you may need to add a weight to the headshell (very often this will be a small coin held on with blutack!)

The link that should have been where I wrote that was lost, so there it is again.

Thanks, though. Mainly I'm mixing records, so I'm concerned about wear. At this point I'm definitely going to buy new cartridges, the question is whether the M44-7 is worth the extra $17 (times two, $34) dollars over the M92E for a bedroom DJ like myself, looking in the long run (i.e. how long these will last for, etc.)

Sorry, can’t help you there, I’ve always been an Ortofon man myself. The main thing to take into consideration with wear is that a spherical diamond will damage records much less when back-cueing, but will not have the clarity of an eliptical diamond.

Well I got cartridges and everything is set up (properly, I hope). My question now is what's the deal with this screw in the cartridge at a 23% angle business? I've had Stanton cartridges which came pre-angled, but turned clockwise, and with a straight tone arm if that makes a difference?), but otherwise I am again in the dark, but it seems to make sense, and better tracking is better tracking...

Are there potential pitfalls to this? If it's angled at say 15, 20 percent will it make a difference?

Thanks.

You can get pfs of protractors to help with alignment. Make sure you print at 100%

http://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

I've just used the 'stupid protractor' in the past. Haven't bothered the last few times tbh.

An hour researching on google and I still have no idea how to use that.

You just print them out, make a hole where the blank dot is and then place it on your turntable to see if the cartridge lines up (more or less) in both positions when viewed from above. Simples.

So, when do you know when it's time to replace styli?

When your music sounds like shite! How long have you had it, and how much music do you listen to a week?

The first sign for me is always that LPs start to sound a little fuzzier toward the center of the record.

I've used them for awhile, like since September, actually, and kind of frequently too. It's not skipping, but stuff is sounding pretty scratchy (though not neccesarily fuzzy, or like the frequencies aren't right), which is getting very annoying. I can't tell whether it's the records or the styli. The other thing is that harsh midtones are getting fuzzy, but only on the left channel, and that's been happening for a long time now.

There's no easy way unless you buy a turntable clock. They're cheap, about $30, though I've seen them for less, and they're really easy to set up. Anyway, when your clock reaches 500 hours, it's about time to buy a new stylus.

I think the idea is that you replace the needle before you hear any wear. Because if it sounds different, it's probably damaging your records. If 500 hours is the standard time period, I tend to think about how many albums I listen to a week, figure even though they are usually 40 minutes or so I can call that an hour, and then think about how long it should last given that.

Everything will start to sound strained and thin. Remember that the bass info is at the bottom of the groove and that a dull, rounded-off stylus doesn't get down there to get it.

Now this is strange. The New Stylus is skipping where the old one doesn't.

Also, does anyone else here use Shure M44G cartridges?

I'm never certain about my counterweights, either, since it's very difficult to set mine at 0 because it always jumps back to the set groove on the tonearm. All very strange and disconcerting.

Is it possible to ever get a set up that ever fucking works properly? I hate this, it's this sort of bullshit that makes me hate turntables.

anyone have any fruitful advice on this?

I use a little Vestax Handy Trax hooked up to my tuner:

http://www.derringers.com.au/product_images/k/267/handytrax__54270_zoom.jpg

and recently after playing a bunch of 45s I switched back to 33 and noticed all my LPs were playing too fast, not 45-fast but faster than 33. I tried adjusting the pitch and even opening up and cleaning the thing, but it is till playing too fast. Any ideas what the likely problem would be, and whether I can fix it/get it repaired or should finally get a big, grownup turntable?

Thanks, guys

weird... have you tried switching the speed back and forth a few times? and is there any way you can open the unit and take a look at the belt?

my old Realistic TT used to get stuck on 45, I ended up having to oil the pushbutton switch.

I opened the unit but I don't see the belt. What should I be looking for?

you can most likely lift the turntable platter off the rest of the unit. if you do this, you'll probably see a rubber belt (like a large rubber band) that connects the turntable to a small spindle. the belt is the mechanism by which the spindle's rotation is transferred to the platter.

assuming the vestax is a belt-drive unit...

good point, it might be direct drive. anyway, I was thinking that if you could find the belt there might be some obvious misalignment - it rests in different spots on a spindle depending on whether you're at 33 or 45.

if it's direct drive (no belt) then the problem might be with the motor itself, which is probably time-to-get-a-new-turntable territory.

http://www.vestax.com/v/products/detail.php?cate_id=109&parent_id=10
http://www.verygoodplus.co.uk/showpost.php?p=210988&postcount=2

hey thanks!

Sorry guys I just got back to this thread,

I can't figure this out for the life of me....
I have a Sony PS250lxh turntable (essentially, everything is fixed except the needle), and upon changing the needle yesterday to another one of the exact same type, it now seems the tonearm or something is out of wack as the housing for the needle now drags across the surface of records. But there seems to be no option for adjustment. Anyone got any quick fixes for that sort of thing? I am currently trying to figure out the correct minute amount of bluetack to put under it....

Are you sure the stylus is seated correctly (there's a little plastic tab t the back that has to slip into a slot on the cartridge, I think)?

Also the needle is protruding below the bottom of the stylus, right? Just want to make sure you didn't get sold a bum needle.

tried the revised instructions?

Man stuff like this makes me so grateful to live in the same city as the needle doctor, those guys will do a free install and balance when you buy anything in store

meisenfek, I was about to be like 'ah! A solution!' but that's actually printed on the player itself! Thank you, though.

Gott punch (absolutely champion username btw), the needle is, but not by much and certainly not as much as the old one. It's completely connected right, as according to those instructions (iffy with my terminology, I bought a replacement stylus not needle, but same difference with something like this).... Is it a terrible idea to try and gently stretch force it down so it's further away from the stylus? Because if not, think I've been sold a ringer although I'm not sure how. It looks exactly the same as the old one....

Anyone know any good hi-fi shops in East London? would rather have that sort of service than buying this sort of shit off ebay again.

I wouldn't try to bend the needle down, you'd be just as likely to damage it as fix it, or bend it out of alignment. You might want to contact the seller and explain the situation and see if you can get a replacement.

Otherwise you might be best off finding a shop that sells turntables there and asking for help - we sell and install needles where I work and it's much easier diagnosing these things in person, which is probably not too surprising!

BTW I use stylus and needle interchangeably, I should probably say base to refer to the plastic part the stylus/needle protrudes from.

one thing you can do, though this is p obvious, is to get your eye right down in there so's you can clearly see the contact between needle and vinyl. the needle should be angled down w its tip a few millimeters below the cartridge & needle assembly. where it comes in contact with the vinyl, there should be a little downward-facing point. when this point comes in contact with the vinyl, the weight of the tonearm should compress the needle so that its angle is reduced about 50%. i.e., if the vertical distance from cartridge/needle assembly to the pointy tip of the needle is 3mm, then after it comes into contact with the record, that distance should be reduced to about 1.5mm by the weight of the tonearm. if you get down in there and look carefully with good lighting, the mechanics of all this will be pretty easy to sort out.

Thanks! It's coming along slowly, but now it's only doing it at the very end of 180gm records, whereas before it'd do it on everything - turns out I'd knocked the (thingy you slot the stylus into) a little to the right whilst probably changing the needle, so it was sitting at a slightly wrong angle. I guess now I find the absolute perfect angle....

so i have a 1210 mk2 deck with severely drifting and erratic tempo - any ideas how much these things take to get fixed, or with replacement parts etc? im wary of throwing money at this with little reward

you got any hunches as to what it could be? does it do it in all pitch fader positions? have a look to make sure there isn't anything dodgy looking inside. sometimes the magnet on the bottom plate loses its magnetism. anyway, spare parts are fairly easy to get hold of and nothing costs much more than £50, so you're probably looking at around £100 w/service

happens in all pitch positions and its quite pronounced, which makes me worry its more than getting a replacement pitch control, at which point not sure how expensive it gets

in that case, it's probably the magnet, the pitch control IC chip or a dodgy capacitor somewhere, all of which cost less than a tenner... good luck :)

bizarrely today the turntable isn't exhibiting any issues - it was ludicrously bad yesterday, not sure what to make of it

dear all.
i have a basic old school project debut turntable.
this weekend the bugger started skipping on everything.
mint never played before 12", classics, the lot, as soon as the needle hits the deck, skippety skip.
now, there is little configuring of this machine - a simple antiskipping device with 3 weighting options to prevent skipping.
i have tried all of the options - no difference.
i cant adjust the weight as its all configured.
only thing i can think of : new needle time ?
would that help, or is it something else ?
ta.

odd....did anything happen to it that you can think of?

i've had pretty good luck contacting customer care people at more "audiophile" companies via email, they tend to have pretty decent support....that might be a good first line of inquiry.

cheers for advise upper - was about to head that route after going through various forums for advise - which always mentions the more complex decks, but there really is little to do with this version.
however, i think i've cracked it !
the tone arm lift thing was not settling down properly, meaning the arm was not coming down completely.
with a torch (the deck is in a dark corner), i spotted an adjustment screw for the tone arm lift
.. tightened that a little et voila !
carpenters in perfection with no skipping.
phew .. .

ah cool! i was kind of flummoxed because i have a Rega P1 (very similar/comparable turntable) and those things are so damn minimal in design it's almost like there's nothing that COULD go wrong outside of all-out motor failure or a problem with your set-up

I've finally started replacing my completely ruined 80's vintage receiver/amp/speaker setup piece by piece. The old stack of stuff had an integrated amp/phono line in, but my new receiver doesn't, so I've gone with a cheap, basic Pyle preamp. For whatever reason, there's no ground screw, or at least no screw specially designated as ground. Apparently it should look like this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51qtMGDk2yL.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51SWbgrFjmL.jpg

I mean, I have that screw, it's holding the case shut, but there's no metal washer behind it. Should I just ignore it and ground the turntable directly to the receiver? Please assume I'm a complete idiot; this is the first time I've actually set up a sound system instead of just inheriting one.

You can ground it to the preamp case without a washer perhaps (just secure one part of the horseshoe shaped contact). Or buy a washer.

The only turntables I've ever had have been cheapo Vestax-type things. I don't have a stereo system.

What advice would you give a *total idiot* about what turntable they should buy? Here's one of my many stupid questions: Can you plug a turntable directly into speakers?

I guess I have about £400 to spend. Is that too little for anything decent?

Can you plug a turntable directly into speakers?
in order to do that you need a turntable with a built-in pre-amp and powered speakers
it's more common to have passive speakers and a turntable that need to be connected through an amplifier/ receiver.
not sure how it is in the uk, but i would recomend buying a used turntable, i have a technics direct drive, that despite being basically the bottom of the line model in 1981 has never needed repairs other than changing the cartridge. they're workhorses and sound good enough, imo. audiophiles will tell you belt driven turntables sound better.

for four hundred pounds you can get a really good turntable, but you also need a receiver and probably a preamp/phono stage

the classic system is source / amp / speakers.

the turntable will be your source. £220 will get you a Pro-Ject turntable which is well regarded (and one of the 'audiophile' turntables mizzell mentions, rather than a more dj turntable like the technics. bit more delicate.). something like this: http://www.richersounds.com/product/turntables/project/essential-2/proj-essential-2-blk (the cheaper, shaped Pro-Jects don't appear to come with lids, which annoys me)

and if you use the same site and click on Amplifiers, and filter on "Phono Stage" at the bottom there then there's a list of amps that you can plug your new turntable into (without a phono stage you'll need a separate pre-amp because a turntable doesn't produce line-level signals like a cd player or tuner does). the denon (£130) or marantz (£150) look like bargains and these things will last forever.

http://www.richersounds.com/products/hi-fi-separates/separates/amplifiers-receivers#1

what speakers do you have? a new system may expose flaws in cheap old speakers.

(am sure there's another thread for this stuff btw)

here: Turntable recommendation required herein

reading that you'll see that the pro-ject is an uncontroversial choice...

Thanks for all this help! I don't have speakers either... I guess realistically I'm looking at closer to £600 for everything.

I live in a tiny flat, so I don't need things to get very loud. The truth is I have a Vestax Handytrax and it's plenty loud, but a new cartridge is about £30 and the whole thing cost just about £150, so I figured maybe it was time to just upgrade. Also on another site someone said it could be damaging my records, though they still sound okay to me.

Seems like there's a huge gap in the market for something that's a couple hundred bucks all-in and sounds decent!

I live in a tiny flat, so I don't need things to get very loud.

get some good headphones.

seriously.

obvious i know, but they make a massive difference.

i have some very cheap basic sony headphones, and i seriously cannot wait to upgrade them.

If you get a turntable with a line-level output/built-in preamp, you can buy some speakers and a mini amp like the Lepai LP-2020A+ (cheap on Amazon). The Audio-Technica LP120 seems to be decently made, though you might want to switch the cartridge out, or try the Pro-ject or whatever.

You may want to know that it is a bit annoying to change speeds on those budjet Pro-ject-esque turntables. I bought an old Technics SL-1600 mk2 for $200 and and I love it. You will then pay another $100 or so for a new cartridge, though.

Aww man now I want to play Spyro.

From Turntable Recommendations II, the one linked by Tom Waits for no one plays through computer (which can rec CD-Rs from vinyl thusly), and good price, good accessories. The Denon linked by Areo looks good, but more expensive:

a friend rec'd me this and it looks like exactly what i was looking for fwiw
http://www.lpgear.com/product/ATLP60.html

― Tom Waits for no one (outdoor_miner), Friday, April 25, 2014 12:15 PM (4 months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
4 months pass...

Anybody have any opinions about Denon turntables?

http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DP300F-with-2M-Red-Package?sc=2&category=1143

― Now I Am Become Dracula (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, September 19, 2014 8:49 AM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I started out with the really cheap Denon with a p mount cart and I didn't really like it, but the DP300F looks cool. It has antiskate, but it looks like there's no way to adjust VTA (which you can get with a cheap used Technics).

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0105/4542/products/handy1_large.jpg

Is there anyone out there making a battery-powered/USB turntable similar to the Vestax Handy Trax? Sadly, they're out of business and the eBay prices are climbing.

There's the Numark PT01USB. I think it has the same (regrettably heavy-tracking) cartridge as the Vestax but it's a bit bulkier. Single built in speaker.

There's also a Sylvania ripoff of the classic Sound Burger portable that goes for like $30-35 on Amazon and is apparently USB equipped, lots of "works great after I tinkered with it" reviews though.

Anyone know where to buy stereo equipment in NYC? I used to buy my stuff at J&R on Park Row but its closed. Thanks for any help!

A replacement stylus for the Shure M97XE used to be available for ~$50 on amazon. Does anyone know what happened? Might as well buy a new cart I guess.

Yeah, I bought a couple of the N97XE from Amazon like 5 years ago for $49 a pop. Not sure why they're up to $90 now. A bunch of places still have it listed in the $45-$50 range, but who knows if they're in stock or not.

Was poking around today trying to figure out what the deal was, wondering if Shure is discontinuing the M97XE.

Just FYI that cartridge has non-Shure aftermarket styli available, the Pfanstiehl number is 4771 or 771; you can get them for $21 and under at

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/

Not familiar with Shure, but Ortofon 2M Red cartridge is great value for money - you can upgrade to the 2M Blue needle if you wear out the red one

Shure still has the full cartridge listed on their site, but not the replacement stylus. A buddy of mine works at Shure HQ; I'll see if he can find out what's up.

I have an Ortofon currently
But I have a huge love for Denon cartridges...
Grado makes some good affordable carts

thanks, all. I'm going to buy an aftermarket stylus and maybe one of the more affordable sources of the Shure part will restock in the meantime. Or maybe I'll be fine with the aftermarket part. I may look at some other carts, as well, just because it's fun. The ortofon 2m Red replacement stylus is ~%80 of the cart cost as well. I wonder if one does better buying an expensive stylus and replacing less frequently vs. buying an aftermarket stylus and replacing more frequently.

I'm having trouble getting my Stanton T.92 with new aftermarket stylus sounding good myself (it sounds awful right now, and I THINK I have everything set up properly?), but it's frustrating because it's pretty hard for me to isolate where the issue lies. I'm not a gear guy really.

do you have the correct tracking weight for your aftermarket stylus? I noticed that it can be different than that recommended for the cart manufacturer's stylus.

Oh good call. I hadn't considered that. Not too sure how to figure that out though- trial and error perhaps?

the website GPIIH linked to helpfully shows tracking weights for aftermarket styli if you remember which one you have.

Thanks, hopefully it will clear things up. It perks me up to consider that I won't necessarily have to roll the dice on yet another stylus and hope it fares better.

Also bear in mind that carts can take time to "burn in" to the sound you'll eventually get. But tracking weight and where the stylus is hitting the groove are important. Vinyl Engine has protractors you can print out and use if you need to, it's pretty simple to do.

this is probably NOT what you're looking for, but there are aftermarket styli from JICO in japan that people swear by for shure cartridges"

http://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1525

like people seem to buy the shure n97xe more or less with the idea of putting a JICO stylus in it

fyi I have an Grado model that was equivalent to a silver, and then put a gold stylus in it. it sounds really nice, but doesn't always track very well on inner grooves or on loud parts I guess?

tell me more about denon cartridges... the MC ones get good reviews, but then maybe I am going down the road of buying a separate preamp (even though yeah I know they're high-output).

I have seen some excitement over the JICO stylus, but it is indeed a bit too pricey. Who knows. I ended up ordering the Pfanstiehl. It will be fun to compare it with the old n97xe stylus that I currently have, anyway. If the $50 n97xe comes back in the meantime, I can do a fairer comparison. tbh, the desire for a new stylus started when I noticed a lot of sibilance on bjork's "Show Me Forgiveness", and I later discovered that it's mostly from the recording.

that grado silver cart looks pretty cool btw.

sibilance is what has driven me crazy trying to replace cartridges and fine tune alignment in the past, but I wonder if I'm just sort of at the limit of the medium. inner groove distortion and sibilance. people make claims about cartridges that can track everything and sound beautiful on inner grooves, but I guess I kinda don't trust them?

I try not to fool myself about the limitations of vinyl. I just want to make it sound as good as I can.

I've been struggling with the same problem, replaced my Grado cartridge last year and have been noticing distortion and sibilance more and more. Maybe it just isn't broken in yet, as I don't use the turntable all the time. I definitely struggle to wrap my head around some of the finer points of adjusting a turntable.

^ This is exactly my problem word for word, except replace "Grado cartridge" with "Stanton stylus".

I doubt that "burn in" really is a thing

yeah never heard abt that actually

what can you do - align the cartridge, check weight and antiskating?

there's sibilance on cds too

The sibilance on CDs isn't a function of their playback mechanism or physical condition though, is it? It's bad recording.

if you have the same cart and you're hearing sibilance that you didn't hear with the exact same cartridge before, it's almost certainly a set-up issue

(again i thank god i live in the same city as Needle Doctor so I can buy a cart in the store and have them put it on)

I hadn't understood you were experiencing sibilance on tracks that used to play without - just meant to say that sibilance is a pretty common feature of recordings and not necessarily product of poor cartridge alignment/worn records

^^^ I listen more carefully to vinyl, and so I notice more good and bad things in the sound. I tend to blame the bad things on my setup too quickly.

this is a good explanation of what can be going wrong. So even if you hear more sibilance on the vinyl compared to the CD, it could be due to error/compromise in the cutting process.

so my problems ended up just being a worn/damaged stylus. the Pfanstiehl that GPIIH pointed me toward has been great. the plastic parts are hilariously fragile, so I just ripped off the little stylus guard. the weight difference with shure stylus was also pretty hilarious, so definitely had to recal tracking force (xp to Evan in case he didn't do this with his aftermarket stylus). think I'll be happily replacing the stylus more frequently with this option.

Thanks, I actually haven't looked into it yet! I keep putting it off. I definitely hope it just comes down to needing to calibrate it in a differently way than the old one. I probably haven't done enough experimenting with trial and error? I don't want to end up putting too much weight on it without realized it either. I get a little paranoid about carving up my records due to my gear ignorance.

(on the offchance anyone not following the other thread is following this one, apologies for duplicating)

Hellos.

My 17-year-old Ariston turntable has started making a weird whinnying sound if its been playing for more than 15-20 minutes. Someone on Facebook suggested I replace the belt, which has never been replaced in its lifetime, as the belt can sometimes make that weird noise if its too old.

I've tried to purchase replacement belts online, but if they're even a few millimeters too long, it seems, there's a massive impact on the speed of the record player - if too tight, too fast, if too loose, too slow. Like, an unlistenable impact.

So:

a) do I need to let one of these new, tighter belts run in, or are they just too big?

b) is it the belt that is causing this problem?

I am v close to getting rid of the turntable and buying another (old) one off eBay but am also worried that I will hit a similar impossible-to-remedy problem.

I am also newly reconverted to the appeal of CDs now (not really, the tray of my CD player is also busted and I can only put CDs on through the use of a bent up piece of thin metal).

ANY help or advice appreciated.

I've had good luck emailing the Needle Doctor with questions they are pretty helpful

If you buy another turntable you could get a direct drive table which does not use belts. I recommend basically any Technics model; the one I have is about as old as me (nearly 40) near bottom of the line and has never required any maintenance besides replacing the cartridge.

whinnying sound seems like it'd be a part rubbing against something? I also have a 40 year old Technics. I've had to service the tone arm motor setup a couple times, but old Technics service manuals are available online. cosign getting a technics 1200 or 1600 mkii if you can find one at a good price, anyway.

I've got a direct drive turntable, and the only problem with them vs belt drive is at really (really, really) high volumes you can hear noises from the drive mechanism sometimes. My shitty bootleg of Loveless sounds even shittier with clunking and whirring between songs.

Also you can get a component CD player for like $30 at a thrift shop, if that's an option for you. Or you can pick up a decent one brand new for like $120+.

Thanks for the tips guys - tbh have just seen my dream turntable (Philips 212, used my dad's old one as a teen but junked it for the Ariston when I got my first paycheck, what a fool) on ebay v v cheap so I think I'm just going to plump for that and pass the ariston on.

any reason why that's your dream turntable?

Just loved the way it sounded when I had one as a teen, and also it has these ace LED-lit 33/45 buttons. Mostly sentimental reasons though, tbh.

Seem to be a lot of em available cheap. Might check one out someday if my Technics ever quits.

Elderly mom wants to get one to play her old John Hammond records. Any decent stand alones w/built in speakers or am I going to have to go the amp / speaker route?

OKAY SO

I recently got a Philips 212 from the 1970s, dream machine, my dad had one back in the day, sounds AMAZING, works fine (I have heard they can be a little temperamental).

It arrived only with a DIN output, so I went and bought a Din-Phono connector at a nearby vintage hi-fi place. However, the left channel often cuts out, and I have to jiggle it a lot to get it to work, and as with all such wiring stuff, am guessing its only so long before all sound is lost. Cannot tell if it is the connector that's at fault or dud wiring in the cable from the turntable (which is built-in), but am guessing the latter.

Have purchased a new DIN-phono connector to check and see if that's the fault, but if it is the cable from the turntable, a) should I take it to the hi-fi place and get them to repair the wiring or b) can I just cut off the DIN plug and rewire it myself with PHONO jacks instead, or does life not work like that?

Have been toying with tracking down the original amplifier that was supposed to go with the turntable, which would make chopping off the DIN plug a mistake, but am doubting I will have the budget for that in the near-term.

I do not have much in the way of technical nous whatsoever, btw.

this is kind of a minor dumb issue but while i love my pro-ject debut III i also don't like how the tone arm doesn't auto return to the cradle so i'm thinking of getting a new one, preferably something vintage, inna woodgrain stylee maybe. any recommendations? looking for under $500.

Xenon dp47f

Denon*

and sry thats vintage, but a great turntable

Project has a series of tts with auto return, has some name like "comfort" or smth

If you like your deck, you could just go the route of a tonearm lifter:

http://www.thequp.com/

Technics 1600 mkii (not wood grain)

Project has a series of tts with auto return, has some name like "comfort" or smith

those are quite expensive IIRC

stevie -- sounds like you're having a tuff go-of-it playing your wax -- quick google found these:

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=49434
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9lv9ou_Qnk

Your symptoms point to a bad DIN, but who knows as it could also be loos wiring anywhere along the path (did you check the cartridge/stylus?). The pics showing the quick clips make it look like a straight-forward job (white,green,green,red,,,,BLACK; where does that 'fifth' wire go in a RCA scenario?) to switch to RCA output, but it sure looks like a nice unit. Good luck!

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=xpressioncomfort

700 euros inc 2M Red Ortofon cartridge, not cheap but not that expensive, maybe you can find a used one or bargain w local pro-ject dealer?

Thanks Bodacious - found that vid too, and what that guy does is WAY beyond my skillset (though it did confirm that I can't just cut off the din socket and whack on some RCAs). With patient wobbling I can get it to work alright (and how glorious it sounds when it does) but it is still temperamental - going to take it somewhere and get someone who isn't a klutz to fix it for me when I get some time and cash.

stupid turntable question

i know that you are supposed to ground most turntables, often by attaching the grounding wire to a pre-amp or amp.

for me, that is no problem.

the problem is that the electrical outlet nearest to where i have my system set up, is not properly grounded. if that's the case, and i plug my turntable into the outlet (or rather into a surge protector that is plugged into the outlet), will i get the "hum" characteristic of ungrounded turntables?

hmm, i found this

http://ask.metafilter.com/30282/Grounding-appliances-in-a-2prong-apartment

Grounding is beneficial only if you have a short in the appliance and could get a shock. Lack of grounding doesn't harm the sound, except for the wire from the turntable to the amplifier, which needs to be either connected or disconnected according to which way eliminates loud hum.

this sounds like it makes sense, but as with all stereo system-related advice, i'm likely to find the opposite admonition on another webpage.

yeah, the shared grounding of outlets is more about not getting a shock from touching your toaster and turntable cases at the same time.

yeah I don't have grounded outlets either, no prob

No humming, no elec shocks; no problem

here's something i noticed

my receiver/amp produces a hum in the right channel (it's audible if you turn the volume up loud) when it's set to "phono," even if nothing is actually plugged into the phono inputs. (it's not a speaker problem, since i swapped speakers a few times and it's always the right channel.) the hum doesn't appear when the amp is set to "aux," "CD," etc.

so i'm guessing this is a problem with the phono stage inside the receiver. there are a few possible fixes/workarounds:

1) just switch the built-in preamp in my new audio-technica turntable on and plug the deck into the "aux" inputs on my receiver, thus bypassing the phono stage altogether

2) don't use the built-in preamp in the turntable, but rather get a dedicated standalone phono pre-amp which can be plugged into the "aux" inputs. i imagine some audiophiles who are skeptical of phono stages in receivers and turntables would recommend this option.

3) just buy a new receiver to replace my 21-year-old kenwood.

do you think i'd really notice an improvement in sound quality using a $200 dedicated phono preamp rather than the preamp built into the audio-technica?

oh and i guess 4) i could try to repair the phono stage in the receiver. but that seems like the dumbest option since it would cost $$ and it's probably not a great machine to begin with.

out of curiosity, which kenwood?

I haven't listened much to turntable-integrated phono stages but if it sounds good to your ears I suggest you enjoy it- and I'm certain your money would be better spent on a new integrated amplifier w phono stage rather than a standalone preamp, in terms of sonic value for money

hmm that hum though - did you by chance try disconnecting/turning off other electrical equipment on same "network" (dunno the english term here) as the amp? sometimes dimmable lights for instance can generate hum

What he said.

hmm that hum though - did you by chance try disconnecting/turning off other electrical equipment on same "network" (dunno the english term here)

circuit

thanks for the advice! yeah, given that eventually i will probably want to get a new receiver, it probably isn't worthwhile to get a standalone phono amp. honestly, i'm more than a little skeptical of the folks who insist those things are necessary for good sound. some of them also /look/ fairly ridiculous, like they are trying to impress with lots of geeky-looking parts.

the kenwood receiver is an 104AR (http://www.cnet.com/products/kenwood-104ar-av-receiver/specs/). i probably bought it for $200 or $250 in... 1996 or something like that.

i was purposely troubleshooting the hum, so i isolated the receiver. it was the only thing plugged into the outlet at the time. adding a CD player and a little lamp to the circuit later didn't change the hum for better or for worse.

1) did you mention the model of the audio technica tt? If it's the AT-LP120, it seems like a good'nuf pre-amp for what you got. Not to offend, but

2). Does the hum change if you use the pre-amp off and go directly into the phono stage -vs- pre-amp on and connect via AUX?

3). Since you also indicate that you're getting hum from a CD player, that would point towards the receiver (which might not be grounding at all -- that could indicate a leaky capacitor or some-such; not likely if it's from your new receiver.

4). Even if you only used one electrical socket, the circuit may also serve many other outlets and fixtures -- need to turn off circuit at the breaker to get a better indication of what else lies on that particular circuit (however, i've read that dimmers can transfer hum beyond one single circuit -- even you really want to get crazy, first isolate everything on your "stereo circuit" and turn of everything but your stereo, then, turn off every other breaker so it eliminates everything else in your home. If you eliminate the hum, subsequent circuits being re-engaged may help identify if the noise is coming from some other fixture).

I use a product called de-Oxit on just about every critical connection (isopropyl and a q-tip may be just as effective) -- it comes in small nail polish-like bottle where you "brush, set, and wipe" to remove oxidation.

Also, for my money, I would skip a dedicated phono amp and put any extra funds towards a better amp/receiver.

...Sorry for the mis-mash of this response, but i'm writing as i read subsequent posts so i'm unsure if yr talking about the new receiver or the old. However, if you the hum ONLY comes from the receiver's phono stage, then use the pre-amp and plug into AUX.

..also, you may be able to ground by connecting to the screw on the cover plate of the outlet.

I have a cheapo Akai AK-D2 I got used a while ago and I want to swap out the cartridge for less than idk $75-100 or so. Is there a fan favorite? I was looking at the Grado Black, AT95E, and Shure M97xE

I have the shure, and like it. Also sounds fine with cheaper after market stylus. I've never heard or owned the other two, though.

the Shure has a little damped brush thing they claim helps track warped records and reduce static electricity; whether it really makes a noticeable difference I don't know but it does do an amazing job of cleaning the dust from your records, much better than those old Discwasher things did. I have an older, discontinued Shure cartridge so I can't speak for the M97xE's sound quality.

what cartridge is currently mounted?

Danish bias, I always recommend Ortofon for new cartridges

right now i have whatever came w/ my used-ass turntable 5 years ago, i think it's a Shure PRO-7? I want to get a new needle but think it'd just be easier/only slightly more expensive to just get a new cartridge

the AT95E is like $40 on Amazon and is probably what i'll spring for

aight, was just thinking that if the current cartridge was decent and you weren't looking for an upgrade it would have to be a bit cheaper and easier to just replace the needle

but maybe the AT95E is better value, and then you can replace that needle instead in five years

Shure is solid, Ortofon 2M Red is sub $100 and another solid choice (it's kinda the entry level to their audiophile line).

Honestly never felt Audio-Technica were much cop but it's all in the ear of the beholder.

2m red cartridge is indeed a good entry point and when the needle wears thin you can exchange it for the 2m blue needle

The Ortofon 2M Red is what came pre-fitted with my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and I can't find fault with it. What I have now is vastly different to my idiot-audiophile days, especially downstream of the sources, and my listening habits are very different too, but I don't find myself hankering over anything better. Mad good separation (or else phase issues that make everything more 3D, who knows), nothing harsh, great low end.

I have the 2M Blue, it's good but I'll never love a cart like the now discontinued Denon DL 160 :(

Does anyone have a picture of a 1200 w/ ortofon blue / red from above so I can see the overhang? I've been trying to adjust mine by using a paper protractor from VinylEngine but I'm not sure I've done it right. Bass response seems to have been minimized.

I'm not sure, but I don't think bass response is where you'd suffer

I'm wondering if I need to adjust the counterbalance now that the cartridge has been moved forward. I guess I should just recalibrate with the new position

Yeah, I'd readjust tracking force to be sure. And the VTA.

I have an ortofon bronze now and it's crazy good. Had the red in the past, also good. Solid MM cartridges!

so so so I have a Philips 212 which I love to death BUT it is not very tolerant of vinyl with the slightest scratches on it. Someone was telling me that I should change the cartridge for one that's heavier/more stable - does anyone have any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

is that tubular thing on the arm not a weight that'll allow you to change the tracking? moving that towards the needle would increase the pressure a bit.

yeah, but not really having enough effect. I was told by someone that a different kind of cartridge, with a different kind of stylus might help, but they were a bit vague on it. Something to do with a different kind of stylus that's more forceful in how it ploughs through the groove.

I think as a rule of thumb a better stylus will always have better tracking - so any upgrade should help

You might want to look for an elliptical stylus for your cartridge. What kind of cart do you have on the 212 right now?

Just the original philips one it came with

If it's an old stylus I'd still suggest any news is good news

thanks all - saw online that the Audio-Technica AT95EBL cartridge is a good budget replacement, and I think it's elliptical.

The spherical stylus

The spherical shaped stylus is the simplest and
cheapest to produce and it is, therefore, the
most common. Spherical styli can be
recommended in all cases where robustness and
economy are taken into consideration in the
purchase of a cartridge.

The elliptical stylus
The elliptical shaped stylus bears greater
resemblance to the triangular shaped cutting
stylus that is used when cutting master records.
The elliptical stylus is able to follow the groove
oscillations more accurately than the spherical
type, and its distortion and phase error will,
therefore, be less.

via https://www.ortofon.com/media/14912/everything_you_need_to_know_about_styli_types.pdf - p helpful at first glance

thanks all - saw online that the Audio-Technica AT95EBL cartridge is a good budget replacement, and I think it's elliptical.

that's the one that came with my turntable, and it's definitely an upgrade on the godawful shitquake i used to have. other audio issues aside, several previously skippy records of mine that were seemingly destined for the bin now play all the way through without one hiccup

aaaand that's exactly the hard-sell I needed, thanks Nick!

(is it difficult to replace a cartridge?)

New Poll

It's not, really, but you'll need needle nose pliers and small screwdrivers. New cart should have a wiring diagram or color-coded posts (Red-Right, White-Left, Green-Right Ground, Blue-Left Ground if it doesn't). I'd advise downloading and printing a protactor from online - or at least making note of where the needle hits compared to your old cart and approximating that, heh.

Oh and when you're putting the cart on either leave the stylus cover on or remove the stylus... and attach the wires before you screw the cart on to the headshell.

Thanks GOTT PUNCH!

can anyone recommend a cheap turntable? one that will reliably play a record at the correct speed?

i had a Crosley record player for a few years and it was always pretty shitty with playback speed and eventually was too slow to play anything. so i threw it out and bought a new cheap turntable, an Ion Archive LP. at first it played wonderful but as the months went by started going slow and now (it's been less than a year) it's too slow to play anything also. i contacted a local audio electronics repair place and they said it would be cheaper to just replace it than fix it.

i need to get a new record player but i am understandably weary of spending a lot of money and then having this same thing happen to me. any recommendations for a sub-$200 turntable?

why do they make such shitty turntables these days? i used to play my records on old turntables found in thrift stores and they tended to work fine for years. does this new shit fail by design?

First mistake; Crosley stinx.

This probably does as well: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1151732-REG/ion_audio_airlp_turntable.html

I would buy this: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1108890-REG/teac_tn_300_b_analog_turntable_with_usb.html

For $200 you can find a great old Dual or Technics that will last you the rest of your life.

Exactly. I thought he was after the ez-ripping feature.

thanks for the advice all. i will look into a Dual/Technic!

i never do any ripping. just need something that will play daily for years.

My Technics SL-23 is bullet-proof! 20 years ago, i bought it for $50

It's a little tricksy, but my Philips 212 from the 70s sounds like a dream and was about $200 off eBay

(Just get someone else to switch the cartridge)

I would say if you see a Dual, do a little googling on the particular model. They made some great stuff but there are some later models, one i bought in particular, that weren't nearly the same quality. Mine broke and it was a short in the cartridge, but this model the cartridge was actually glued into the headshell. Anyway, Dual is generally great but I think they must've done some crappier stuff in the mid/late 80s. Technics are pretty consistent as far as I know. Another company that is really worth looking into, esp late 70s/early 80s is the now-defunct Scott. I have one I got off Craigslist and it sounds great esp w/a new cart.

Scott's are getting a little more well known but sometimes you can get a really good deal on them as they are not as known as Technics or Dual. This is the one I got:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fmLwOEgNP74/maxresdefault.jpg

Also, I think weight is often a good indication on an old turntable, if it's pretty heavy that's a good sign imo.

in all my research this seemed to be the go-to non-shitty but decent record player that should last awhile

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/turntables/583f30b3a8662772/

*non-shitty/cheap

I bought a Dual 745 (iirc) for $50, but the headshell was glued together in a spot, and the glue fell apart after holding together for 30 years or so. My local shop tried to fix it, but all their replacement headshells fell apart in the same way. If you get a Dual, I'd suggest trying to find a 12xx series model, they seem to be built better.

Also I've heard good things about the Uturn Orbit, although I haven't gotten one for myself yet. The baseline model is $179 and it's supposed to rival stuff like the Rega RP1. If you can afford the optional Ortofon 2m Red with it, that's a great sounding cartridge.

For budget, Audio Technica LP-60 is usually what I show entry-level folks. That should get you through several years of listening, and is easy to "level up" from. Stylus is also easy & cheap to buy & replace.

But if you can go up to $200, I would recommend the Pro-Ject Essential II over the U-Turn. Their production quality is higher, IMO (work at a shop that has sold both).

And yes; never ever buy or go anywhere near a Crosley. That's plastic trash, not a turntable.

Pro-Ject Essential II is what I have and is brilliant. Several ilxors took my advice and got one too and they were very happy with it.

I have a Crosley I actually like for grabbing samples off records, cuz the stuff your record into your DAW sounds kinda gritty like a mid-80s sampler

but yeah they are also wrecking the shit out of your vinyl, those ceramic needs are blunt and huge and heavy as fuck

dronestreet - i live in the same city as needle doctor and i went down there to get a new cartridge have you heard the new AT MN540ML microline?

I was coming in to maybe get a Denon DL-110 or a replacement Ortofon 2M Blue (some stereo stuff got zapped by lightning strike) and the guy at the store strongly suggested this one, been really loving it so far...not crazy wide sounding as the old DL 160 (discontinued) that I had but it tracks was better than the 2M Blue and just feels "bigger" and more detailed, way way less inner groove distortion and sibilance on "s's"

ceramic needles -- on what, the Crosleys?

here's what michael fremer says about the orbit. he makes a point of mentioning its good speed control.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/u-turn%E2%80%99s-remarkable-179-orbit-turntable-crosley-killer

bodacious - yep they use ceramics, the cheapest/worst kind of cart

GIGO

I do love my Pro-Ject - I can't think of much better for the money.

I've owned Dual, Ariston, Systemdek and - most gloriously of all, before I had to sell it - a Michell Gyro SE. Cardas/vdH rewired Rega tonearm, Ortofon MC25FL moving coil, Nene Valley Audio phono pre-amp, the works. People would gather round it at parties and just watch the weights go around. Ahhh.

Anyway, forced to rethink on a greatly reduced budget, I went for Pro-Ject about two years ago and it's not as, uh, forensic as the Michell, but it just sounds lush and rich and wide and deep and handsome (came with the Ortofon 2M Red). I pushed the boat out and got an external phono pre/ADC, so I can "rip" if I so wish. But who ever gets round to doing that? Maybe I'll "do" something with run-out grooves. No-one has ever thought of that before, right?

(there's a quickspace cd single which has the run-out groove and possibly the sound of an eject mechanism at the end of the track that would be the end of the first side on the vinyl, and the run-in groove sound on the start of the next track)

thanks - great posts and suggestions everyone! i need to just get a real turntable for once =)

i bought a new Audio Technica due to this thread and it sounds AMAZING. holy shit the sound is crystal clear. i also bought the new Yuzo Koshiro "The Revenge of Shinobi" LP and it arrived with the turntable. it also sounds amazing. really crystal clear, really quiet during the silent parts.

nice enjoy!

Okay. SO. A quick recap. Bought a Philips 212 with original cartridge, the sound blew me away, but it would skip on any record with the slightest scratch or speck of dirt.

Bought a AT95E with elliptical stylus, installed it, managed to fuck my tonearm up, only just got a dude to fix it for me.

Now it's playing properly, it's playing every scratched and dirty record with nary a skip. But. It just doesn't sound as good, as wide, as the original Philips cartridge. I can't explain it, but everything sounds bunched up, like there's a little high-end distortion.

The Philips cartridge is a 400ii. I've seen that there's an elliptical stylus on the market for the 401, which seems v similar to the stylii I used to buy for the 400ii, does anyone know if it be possible to place this elliptical stylus in the 400ii cartridge? And is it the fact that an elliptical needle digs so much deeper that's the reason the AT95E doesn't sound so great?

I'm no audiophile, I'm just surprised as all the reviews for the AT95E rave bout the amazing sound you hear. But it just doesn't sound amazing to me, after the old cartridge on the Philips.

Quick Google search shows that both use the Pfanstiehl 595-d7 so they should be cross-compatible. Just make sure to adjust your tracking force as appropriate.

Thank Gott!

And can anyone back me up on the AT95E? Am I being too picky and expecting too much from a budget cartridge?

Stuff seems more sibilant than I want it to, than it did before on the earlier cartridge...

With the original cartridge did you try raising the amount of counter-weight to see if that helped the skipping?

Yeah, still didn't help.

I think with AT carts you can upgrade the needle onto the same assembly but honestly at that point you might want to spring for a better cart. I just got a new cart and I live in the same city as the Needle Doctor retail store, dude was really passionate about recommending this new AT model over the Ortofon 2MBlue....has a microline stylus which he said is unheard of at this price point, still it might be more than you want to spend and i bet for another $100 ish you could upgrade your needle on the 95

http://www.needledoctor.com/Audio-Technica-VM540ML-Phono-Cartridge

also when you buy a cart there they install and balance etc it for free and seriously i'm so glad never to have to fuck w/that god bless y'all

Thanks Matt!

WOW WTF

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=41657

uhhhhhh shit. gonna have to go buy some expensive styli now.

Man I was considering upgrading to a Shure cartridge. That would be a bad idea now, right?

(That said my current cart is from the 70s and I'm still able to get styli for that)

i have a vintage pioneer turntable that i bought from a local place that had fixed it up. the headshell (?) has four little delicate wires that connect to the needle cartridge, and one of those wires broke off a while ago. since then, it seems like something is off with the stereo sound when i play records. does that seem like something that would be an effect of one of those wires breaking?

it seems like something that would be an easy fix if i had any competence in soldering, but i'm pretty bad at it. i should probably get it fixed, but if i wanted to replace the whole headshell/cartridge, could i just replace it with any headshell that has the four-pin connection to the arm, or are there other factors to consider?

Is it a PL-12D?

Two of the colored wires are the L and R channel signals, two of them are L and R channel ground, so if one of the signal wires breaks you'll know it because a channel will drop out entirely. Not sure what effect the ground wire breaking would have.

the turntable is a PL-71. the headshell doesn't have a model number on it.
it's possible that the problem is our amp, which is very old and crappy. i thought i'd try tackling the cheap solution first.

I think I have a similar problem as it goes. I have a couple of times been listening to a record and thought my right channel sounded a bit 'thin' or empty. When experimenting with the balance it'll crackle and pop harshly in that channel. I assumed it was the speaker/wiring but I've adjusted at the back of the speaker and nothing has changed.

I'm playing a CD right now and sounds great and no clicks or pops when I fiddle with the balance.

In the hope it'll fix both our problems, anyone got an idea? (Stanton STR8-150, Cambridge Audio amp, 70s Kef Concord speakers - hence why I thought it was the speakers.)

In my experience, if one of those little wires comes loose or snaps it will fuck with your sound. You definitely need all four connected.

so let's say theoretically someone tried to fix this problem by soldering a wire in that place but it didn't fix the problem and instead just made it worse. can i buy something like this and use it replace the old headshell? the 4-pin connection looks the same, so i would think yes?

ie is there anything i need to look for to make sure a replacement headshell will work with my turntable? are there any where the needle cartridge is easier to install?

they’re all easy. yeah get a new one!

by easier i mean "not having to connect tiny fiddly little wires to tiny fiddly little poles on the needle cartridge" but that seems to be standard

ordered one of the ones that has an easier-install cartridge. hope it fixes all of my problems!

Just bear in mind that headshells designed for DJs use a lot more downforce to keep the needle in the groove when cueing etc. It’d wear out standard LPs more quickly to have 4g pressing on the stylus. Also not good for quality sound I believe.

hm reading a bit more it’s apparently not the worst thing, but different cartridges have different recommended downforce.

hurrah NA!

yes i would unscrew that 4g weight personally. i expect your turntable has its own way of adjusting the weight on the tonearm.

i got a consumer headshell i think though i did look at those dj ones for a bit

safe bet, wouldn't want anybody thinking yr a poseur

never stopped me before

hey this worked out! getting the cartridge on the headshell and attaching all the little wires was still too fiddly but i did it. also solved a mysterious hum by ... reattaching the turntable ground wire lol. sounds pretty good now! i guess this means we can keep using the amp i bought at a thrift store for $20 about two decades ago

Aside from capacitors drying out, good 70s solid state gear is essentially permanent.
https://i.imgur.com/UKynICv.jpg

Vinyl is such a pita

yeh! after a lot of research and buyer's luck (albeit on a minuscule budget) I finally have a system that CAN make a well-pressed record sound about as good as a well-mastered CD

I mean I get that all the mucking around is part of the "fun" of vinyl but there are plenty of frustrations

I'm thinking about upgrading before the end of the year and I'm batting about the U-Turn Orbit and the Pro-Ject T1. As much as I love fully auto or even semi auto turntables, I don't think going full manual would be too much of a drag, and I like the low profile appearance both of these tables offer. Anybody here have a preference between them? I rarely ever play anything on 45, so moving the belt between gears isn't really an issue.

Is a fully manual tt more annoying in reality than it is in my imagination?

once you are at peace with knowing you will eventually wander off/fall asleep and leave the needle riding the runout groove for 6-10 hours, it's fine

Depends where the motor is. If it's in the chassis and you actually have to lift the platter off the spindle every time you want to change speed - that can get annoying. If it's outside the platter and it's just a case of nudging the belt up or down - no problem at all. Looks like the Pro-Ject T1 is the former, and the U-Turn Orbit is the latter. But I do like Pro-Ject stuff. I've had a Debut Carbon for the last five years and no complaints. I don't think U-Turn is available over here.

xp - oh yeah, the lack of auto-return; well, I haven't had that since my Ariston in the early '90s. If you want to listen to an LP, stay awake, stay in the room :)

What's the real benefit to an acrylic platter, btw? I've already got an acrylic slipmat, so a platter might be overkill (though the T1 has a glass platter, so I don't know what I'd do in that situation).

I've been using an MCS 6502, which is really a rebranded Technics SL-23, and it's been good to me, but it's starting to have speed issues and I've fiddled with every remedy I can find short of replacing the motor. Also it's limited to the AT71 cartridge and nothing else because the headshell/cart combo isn't removable, so I'd like to have more options in that department as well.

I think it's just heavier, denser, less speed fluctuations and less resonant. Whether you can hear any difference vs MDF is another matter. Back in '97 a physics postdoc pal of mine, who had access to a nice precision lathe and the raw materials, made a very heavy polycarbonate platter for his turntable. I got his "pre-production" effort to put on my Systemdek. Yeah, it was great, but I changed the tonearm and cart at the same time, so I'll never know whether the platter made a difference (and I had to shim-up the tonearm base to match, so I couldn't really go back).

I’ve got a project carbon and I get motor gum from it. Apparently it’s an issue with my model. I’ve since bought a used Thorens that was cheaper and waaaay better. If you’ve got a good local shop, a used turntable is the way to go.

Motor HUM.

But motor gum sounds kind of cool.

Oh yeah, there's motor hum with my Carbon too - getting worse towards the end of each side? Or maybe it just manifests itself after 20min+ of use. Anyway, at the levels I listen at (rarely headphones with vinyl), it's only noticeable between tracks. I see there are a few tweaks out there to remedy it; either to do with the transport screws (pretty sure I removed those) or damping the screws around the motor base. It's not as annoying as the anti-skating weight slipping off the notch on the counterweight, which it seems to do every time I go to use it.

My Carbon has that hum too. Not a huge deal, but noticeable if you pay attention to it. Pretty much a non-issue once the record starts playing, at any volume. I've also had an issue with the dust cover, stopped staying open on its own after a while, and became increasingly hard to open past 45 degrees. Wound up replacing it with a cloth dust cover.

Yes, same here with the bloody dust cover!

It’s amazing what you’ll happily put up with as Good Enough once you’ve surrendered your audiophile credentials. (It does sound smoother than my old forensic Michell though. Honestly.)

interesting, these sound like real flaws! i'm surprised it hasn't hurt the brand more.

I've got a Linn LP12 but it's currently out of action because there is a loose connection in the wires connecting the cartridge to the tonearm. I think I'm going to have to take it to a shop because I have no idea how to fix this or even where to get replacement wires from. this is probably going to cost a lot of money isn't it?

These are the short headshell leads? You can buy some for $10 on amazon. Take a picture of the current connections and match it. You might have to realign the cartridge after if you move it.

might also be able to squeeze the loose connector with some tweezers before slipping it back on

My wife just picked up a Pioneer PL400 off the curb in our neighborhood and it needs a new stylus. Is there a good online store for replacement parts like this or should I just get an entire new cartridge?

Woah, they look beautiful. I got a bargain PL12D earlier this year and I just love it. Pioneer for the win.

xp you might try turntablelab.com or lpgear.com

maybe worth seeing if a local retailer is a pfanstiehl dealer, which in my experience is a great deal cheaper

depending on the cartridge it might be easier just to buy a brand new entry-level headshell / cartridge combo, in which case you could just plug it in / screw it on and go

thanks, found one on lpgear that looked nice enough.

Reviews on the pfanstiehl stuff are mixed. My experiences with Tonar have been uh not good. Jico, however, has come through for me in a big way, and I’m glad to buy styli from them for any carts I can’t find OEM styli for.

finally replaced the headshell on my table and holy shit I can't believe how much better everything sounds now

headshell and cartridge?

yeah both. I had one that I used for a year, bought cheap cuz my kids broke 2 already. but now that they finally understand that ONLY DADDY TOUCHES THE NEEDLE I don't have that problem anymore. another thing I'm curious about is which setting to use on my receiver. I can't use PHONO because my turntable has an amp so it sounds like blown out garbage. AUX is pretty good, but it can't handle noisier records well (such as Dan Deacon's Bromst). I have it set to TAPE MON now and it sounds pretty good. idk if that's ideal though.

I think AUX and TAPE MON are likely the same in terms of level

I've been A/B testing them and in most instances they're the same but AUX seems to flatten the noisier/busier sections. I think there might be some built-in volume adjustment there, with AUX it seems to like to crank up any quiet bits to the point where they're louder than the parts that are supposed to be loud (for example Faust's "Just a Second" - the weird electronic bits in the second half are notably louder than the guitar jam in the first). Maybe this causes strange things to happen when listening to records that are a bit more nuts. As a side note Dan Deacon is a hell of a test for a new speaker set up

As for the new headshell/cart...one thing I was noticing on the old one was that the cymbals & hi-hats didn't sound crisp which I've heard is a sign your needle is going. I'd guess I've used it for around 400 hours which I think is about the lifespan of a cheap one?

is there a way to turn off the phono stage built into your turntable? I had a Sony one with a built in phono stage and the switch was somewhere fiddly, like under the platter mat

About four years ago I splurged on a Speed Box S for my Pro-Ject Debut III so I wouldn't have to lift the platter every time I wanted to switch from 33 to 45. Recently after I moved turntable and Speed Box from one shelf to another, the Speed Box stopped working. It powers on when not connected to the turntable, but when connected the lights flash briefly and then nothing happens. The turntable is switched on as appropriate and works fine with its own power supply. I thought the problem might be a short in the tiny cable that connects Speed Box to turntable, but a replacement cable made no difference.

I don't want to go back to switching the platter all the time, yet I cringe at the thought of buying another $150 thing just so I won't have to. Any suggestions?

Scrap the pro-ject & buy a TT with a speed selector like every TT since the end of WWII has had?

I don't have any experience with this component, but a search confirmed that others have had issues. Checking the cable was a reasonable thing to do. In most cases, some of the components in the box are fried. If you don't have a warranty or anything else to worry about voiding, I'd open the case and look for obvious signs of overheating. Perhaps, it failed in a somewhat graceful manner and can be fixed.

If you can't fix it, maybe it is a good time to sell the pro-ject and get something with the integrated speed selector. It's a bummer that the box failed, and I hope you find a solution.

Sufjan as always with a more empathetic and sensible response.

Lack of push button speed change sadly very common in mid to high end belt drive TTs. Used to have take the platter off my old Systemdek, same with the current ProJect. My Michell had a free standing motor outside the platter so that was just moving the belt. The idea that a speed switch is an optional extra, or involves buying an expensive DC PSU, is just one of those weird inconveniences that’s become the norm.

Hope the Phono Box lives again.

Technological backward steps #onethread

maybe try contacting sumiko?

Thanks for the replies, even the non-empathetic one. As Michael Jones suggests, the Speed Box seems to have gone into decline since, oh, 9/11. Although the new Debut Carbon Evo actually has a speed button!

I don't think the speed box is covered by warranty, so I'll give a shot at looking inside despite my ineptitude with these things. This hasn't changed much since I was complaining about this turntable upthread 13 years ago -- after the hum issue, I contacted the (now sadly departed) Needle Doctor and they ended up just sending me a replacement, which is the one I have now.

Hi, I received a SL-1500c for my birthday. It’s awesome. What do I need to get good quality rips of my rare dance music vinyl? What cartridge? Amp? Pre-amp? I don’t know anything!

Does it have a cartridge on it already? I'd start with the minimal setup and upgrade from there. The sl-1500c has a built in pre-amp if you plug into the "line out" ports. You can buy a 2-channel usb audio interface that takes RCAs as input, download audacity, and you are in business.

If you want to upgrade, I'd guess the best place is at the usb audio interface. The nicer ones will have separate gain on the 2 channels and 1/4"/XLR inputs. I'd focus on obtaining a low noise capture. You can add equalization after capture if needed. But if you'd rather plug in external stuff that gives you a sound you like, that would indeed be convenient. So you might look at swapping phono pre-amp and cartridge.

hoping ILX's home audio hivemind can help me out here. i'm trying to set up a record player with a preamp/receiver to speakers. i'm using the following equipment:

- technics 1200-sl mk2 turntable
- bellari PA550 phono preamp
- onkyo tx-8220 stereo receiver
- audioengine hdp6 passive speakers

the turntable was purchased used off ebay, everything else is brand new. i have everything connected but can't get any sound to come out of the speakers.

- when i plug headphones into the preamp i can hear sound in the left channel, but not the right.
- when i plug headphones into the receiver, it's the same except it's far more faint, like i basically have to turn the volume on the receiver all the way up in order to hear it at a normal volume.
- the ground wire from the turntable to the preamp is bare and attached to the preamp's grounding post. the RCA cables from the turntable are going into the PHONO plugs in the preamp, the RCA cables are going from the preamp's OUTPUT to the LINE function in the receiver, and the speakers are attached to the receiver with banana plugs.

am i doing something wrong or do i possibly have a defective part somewhere? my feeling is something could up with the ground wire from the turntable to the preamp but i have no idea why no sound's coming from the speakers.

how is the sound for CD, radio, AUX?

i think you should start by plugging your 1200 directly into the PHONO jacks on the onkyo and see how it sounds.

Does that receiver have A and B speaker inputs? If so make sure you have the right one selected.

If something was up with the ground wire it would most like just produce a hum or buzz. It wouldn’t stop sound being produced.

i would definitely start with budo jeru’s suggestion of plugging the technics directly into the phono input on the onkyo.

Yes, bad preamp most likely

update: followed budo's suggestion and plugged the RCA cables directly into the receiver, and it definitely sounds much better now. the bare wire on my turntable is really short so we had to electrical tape some additional antenna wire that we had lying around to get it to reach the receiver. as for the speaker issue, i think i just had the cables in the wrong outputs - played around with it and it now sounds pristine. thanks y'all :)

also uh anyone need a preamp lol

great news! happy listening :)

can you return the preamp? and happy listening!

The other thing to check is if the preamp and the receiver both have volume controls, make sure the volume on the preamp isn’t all the way down. Usually you would have the receiver volume at max and just use the preamp to control the volume.

I would probably put the preamp near max, or match volume with other line inputs, and control volume from receiver which likely has a remote.

Any thoughts on the differences between Pro-ject's Primary E (£149), A1 (£269), E1 (£269) and T1 (£299)? Or anything else that's going to be £300 tops?

I have an ONKYO A9010 amp and B&W DM601 S2 speakers, if that makes any difference?

Must admit I can't even decide between one where you have to lift up the turntable and manually change the RPM or one with a switch!

(Also, moving to the top of the posts ahead of the sales starting tomorrow!)

well if it matters, supposedly the ones with the switch have *slightly* worse sound quality since there are more moving parts, that's the logic of the manual belt. I have a manual one (Music Hall MMF-5) and switching has never bothered me, I play a fair amount of 45 rpm stuff too

in my exciting TT news, my Music Hall has developed a ground hum that I can't get rid of. Good times. my next step is gonna be an old electrician trick of using a 3-prong plug that has hot and neutral stripped, so just a ground plug, and running the ground directly to that. But my fear is that it's in the cartridge somehow (already tried swapping needles). It's 16 years old and has seen tons of use, so...

Ta, sleeve.

I have a Rega and at some point I won't. It isn't the quietest turntable and has intermittent hum issues - probably because they don't use a ground wire like every other turntable in the world.

Ah, the Rega Planar 1 was the other one I had pondered.

I have no idea what can just be connected to my amp or whether I'd need a pre-amp??

Does your amp have a “phono” input? If not you’d be looking for “built in preamp” or “line level output”on the specs of the TT. Otherwise it’s preamp time.
By the way you can use a secondhand amp with a phono input and e.g. tape output as an inexpensive pre.

if you don't know whether you need a phono preamp or not, i'd get either the A1 or the E1 with phono preamp, seems like best bang for the buck. you probably don't need to worry about the T1.

Thanks - yes, it does have a phono input.

I've had a Rega p1 for years, I have not personally had any hum or ground issues, been a champ

if you have a phono input on your amp then i’d go for the cheapest unless you think you’d benefit from the automatic features of the a1

all five 1200s i’ve owned were bought used and then internally grounded as part of the initial service appointment. i don’t know how much it would cost to have the internal grounding done by itself but these guys took the whole thing apart, cleaned all the gears and bearings, replaced all the belts, tuned it up and internally grounded for about $100 each. no hum at all

of course 1200s are built on a big metal frame. not familiar enough with rega or project turntables to know if internal grounding is possible. if it is, i recommend it! very nice not to have to screw around with a ground wire

i had a line on a used rp-1 for $250. regret passing on it, what made me skip it - aside from needing to buy a preamp, since the stereo i wanted to connect it to only had an aux input, not phono - was not wanting to deal with having to switch a belt to play 45s!

Do you listen to your 45s or do you like to think about listening to your 45s? Cuz I'm in the latter camp and I think most are

I have a few recent punk lps that play at 45, (granted they are only 10-15 minutes per side)

I mean sure I have 45rpm albums

Oh but wait late great might have a lot of dance stuff

well i am in that camp too. house, disco, techno tends to be on 12” not 7”. the one genre that sticks to 7” 45* is funk edits, and i guess funk and soul singles also tend to be easier to find on 7”. i only have a few dozen, and since 7”s don’t fit in the kallax with the non-dance records, or in the kallax-sized fiberglass ikea bins on the floor with the dance records, i put them in a cardboard longbox. the longbox is ugly and fits nicely in a closet, so it lives there, and it never occurs to me to grab them. somewhat related i had a copy of “funkier than a mosquito’s tweeter” on 7” with me at my thing last week, and it would have slayed, but i totally forgot about it because it got buried deep in the bag between the 12”s

* = i have not yet descended into the madness that is reggae 45s

Can't work out the most current turntable thread.

Anyway, anyone fancy explaining the difference between the various Pro-Ject turntables currently on sale at Richer Sounds.

E1 - £249
E1 Phono £249
T1 - £299
E1 BT - £369
T1 Phono SB - £379
Debut Carbon EVO - £399

BT = Bluetooth. Can't quite decide whether that is going to matter/future proof a bit?
The EVO comes with a £100 needle, apparently. And is £100 off. And comes in fancy colours.

If it helps, I have an ONKYO a-9010 amp. Don't have a pre-amp or anything like that.

This is partly a "plagued by indecision" sort of question (being meaning to replace a broken record player for years but failed).

Would I regret buying the cheapest rather than the fanciest (don't want to go over £400)?

The E line are the budget/entry-level models; the most lightweight material (in theory the lighter the plinth and platter, the more susceptible to vibration and therefore distortion). The T line uses better/heavier material and (I believe) a better tonearm so supposed to be less prone to vibration etc. I believe that both the E and T lines have a fixed anti-skate setting, meaning you’d probably be best sticking with the same or similar Ortofon cartridge down the line as they’ve been optimized to work with that one.

The Debut line uses better material still, has the motor suspended from the plinth to reduce vibration even more, comes with better cart, and has adjustable anti-skate which will give you more options for future cartridge upgrades.

The ones with Phono in the name include a phone pre-amp. I’d skip that personally; the one in your Onkyo should be fine. BT includes Bluetooth and phono pre-amp; I’d skip that too unless you know you need it now; if you ever need it in the future you can add a transmitter. One thing to pay attention to if it matters to you is which models come with a speed selector switch. With the non-phono/non-Bluetooth models you often need to manually move the belt with a little tool to select 33/45 RPM (I’ve been doing that for close to 30 years with my Pro-Ject and it doesn’t bother me but some people find it annoying).

I’d probably skip the E line; if you’re just looking to be able to play your existing collection and aren’t doing critical listening you’ll probably be fine with the T; if you’re still collecting records, have time to sit and listen to music without doing other stuff, like the idea of trying out different carts/needles eventually, I’d go with the Debut.

I have a carbon debut and it has always had some motor rumble. If you have any place near you that sells refurbishment turntables, I’d get a classic older model instead of any pro-ject.

Also, having to buy an additional component to easily change from 33 to 45 = duuuuud

Thanks both.

I have $1k to spend on a turntable, amp and speakers. What would you all recommend ?

If I was doing it from scratch I'd get...

NAD C316BEE V2 - $400
Elac Debut 2.0 bookshelf speakers - $230

Take your pick of turntables. I might get something like the Denon DP-300F - $329

i'd go so far as to say that setup would be "tite"

Sweet! Thanks buddy

You can check out the cheap audio man's recommendations.
Randy doesn't have great taste in music, but I like his videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOYicgCSPA8

Here's a couple of receivers that have caught my eye recently:

Refurbished Marantz PM6007

Dayton Audio HTA200

speakers as the cheapest part, really?

never built an all new system. watching with interest.

The Elacs sound amazing but yeah there are a million right answers here

you may wanna check out Facebook marketplace, sometimes you can get high end stuff for cheap because people just really want it out of their house

one nice thing about audio equipment is it lasts forever. my receiver is like 35 years old. speakers probably 25. the turntable I bought 2 decades ago still works as good as it did when I bought it. so buying used is a pretty good option I think.

for me the biggest audio upgrade was going to a microline stylus, the AT-VM95ML if you're curious. it was $150 for the cart (if you have an AT turntable you already have the headshell) and not only did the records sound better but it basically eliminated inner groove distortion. plus they last like 2-3x as long as regular carts.

yup I switched to the AT-VM95ML and huge improvement over I think an Ortofon Red

speakers as the cheapest part, really?

If I were starting over and buying new I’d probably go with something like:

Integrated amp: Yamaha A-S301 - $350 (sometimes available as a refurb for $300)
Speakers: Triangle BR03 - nice sale at Adorama right now, $230-$290 depending on finish
Turntable: U-Turn - best one I could get depending on how much I paid for the amp and speakers

calstars in nyc iirc, which is a really competitive and expensive market for used gear

And yeah, I actually switched to an AT-VM95ML a couple of months ago, inner groove distortion disappeared!

is it easy to fit an AT to a rega planar

apparently it’s a skoosh

when I put on the new cart I used one of those print-out protractors to align it, turned out to be a waste of time because if you're using the AT headshell it's already aligned properly.

Microline stylii absolutely changed my life. No inner groove distortion ever again. It was incredible to realize that the final song on every side of every record didn't have to sound distorted.

I can highly recommend the AT-VM95ML. I've also had great results with the AT440MLb.

I splurged a bit last year and got my first moving coil type stylus and it is a revelation. AT-OC9XML, also by Audio Technica.

for me the biggest audio upgrade was going to a microline stylus, the AT-VM95ML if you're curious. it was $150 for the cart (if you have an AT turntable you already have the headshell) and not only did the records sound better but it basically eliminated inner groove distortion. plus they last like 2-3x as long as regular carts.

I want to fourth this recommendation. Only problem is they spoil you for normal stylii and when it's time to replace they're obvs a fair bit more spendy than straight ellipticals (but totally worth it)

I found out about it via the Steve Hoffman forums, I hate to say it but if you have serious audio questions you may want to ask those folks. they're obnoxious but they know their shit.

I had that same Denon model before my dad gave me his Pro-Ject debut, it was a solid deck!!! I did have to get under there and blindly twist a tiny screw to adjust the speed at one point.

and yeah I have that same at stylus too! wow, inner groove distortion just melts away

Buying used basically doubles your spending power.

I have a Rega P2. I got a replaced the Rega cartridge with the same thing due to a broken stylus a few months back and have been having intermittent tracking problems since then that have worsened recently. It started skipping on dirty records originally but now even on records that I know are clean and have never had issues. In addition to skipping where it repeats the same groove, it appears to be skipping to a different spot without actually repeating.

I have adjusted the tracking force, which seemed to work a while back but just tried it again and it didn't seem to help.

Could this be caused by a worn belt? The table is 6 years old and has the original belt.

Could it be the alignment of the cartridge? I had a lot more trouble installing this cartridge than in the past. The bolts didn't fit nearly as well, but I think I got it and sound wise I don't hear any audible issues other than the skipping.

I am decent at trouble shooting audio issues but this is very strange.

got a

Not the belt, that would affect the speed/pitch. does your P2 have anti skate? it could definitely also be the alignment of the cartridge or the tracking force, it's probably a combination of all three. The last time I replaced the cartridge on my P6 I brought it into a shop to have it properly set up and it was well worth the hundred bucks or whatever.

Thanks. The P2 doesn't have anti-skate and I have been feeling like it has been skating lately. Seems to want to fall off the outside of the record if I don't get it solidly in the run-in groove, which has never previously been an issue.

I realigned the cartridge and reset the the tracking force and it played ok yesterday. So far so good.

I'm going to replace the Rega in the next two years. I don't like their closed system, lack of a ground wire, and lack of anti-skate.

iirc the regas use a weird geometry?

Probably.

I'm highly suspicious of a single company thinking they have the special sauce on a technology that has been solved since the 1960s.

you can try one of the rega protractors here towards the bottom of the page https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge-alignment-protractors.shtml

I have tried those in the past and found them confusing. Maybe I will give it another try.

Update!

I’m now looking at:
NAD C316BEE V2
Pro Ject debut carbon with sumiko moonstone

Need to research speakers. Will start with the Elac and Triangle recs above. More are welcome! I’d like to keep the speakers under $500

My debut has always had a slight hum. The isolation of the motor is not so great.

Tempted to go with a MC tho

My debut has always had a slight hum. The isolation of the motor is not so great.

Also of note, the dust cover on my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon is wonky, difficult to open and have it stay open. I replaced it with a soft dust cover.

I have the hum too. And it is a hassle to lift the platter and move the belt when going from 33 rpm to 45 rpm, but maybe that's typical among mid to higher end turntables?

I replaced my older (2007) Debut III with a Fluance RT85 basically because it has a speed control switch. (I had a Pro-Ject Speed Box that stopped working, as I described somewhere here, maybe on this thread?). While I preferred the aesthetics of the Debut III, I've basically been happy with the Fluance.

If you had 1k to spend on turntable, amp, and speakers each (not in total), what would you pick

older turntable that's been refurbished

Like what for example

Spend more on the speakers than the other equipment. If you have about $3000 —

Yamaha A-S701 integrated amp open box/refurb from Accessories4less — $600

Well-maintained Technics SL-1200 mk2 — $600-$700, or if you can’t find one locally something like SL-D2 or D3 — $200-$300

Wharfedale Linton Heritage + stands — $1800, or if your style is more contemporary than retro Revel F35 — $1800

^ what er said!

i don't think you're going to get much of a noticeable difference by increasing the budget from 1k to 3k

get the NAD; i think buying new for your amp is a good call. get a technics SL-D2 or some other refurbished '70s turntable like a sanyo or pioneer

spend 200-400 on some old speakers that you think would look good in your place, maybe some old klipsch bookshelf speakers for example

keep it modest and depending on how much you are playing your records and what you're hearing, you can slowly tweak and upgrade

I've had a Project Debut III for, let me see, 13 years now and I haven't experienced that hum mentioned upthread. Other issues have come up, mostly to do the the antiskate thing, which is such a pain to get back once dislodged (I don't know if that happens with all turntables of this type).

Not all Debuts are affected, seems to be predominantly the Carbon (which I’ve had for 10 years; I didn’t notice the hum until I moved house, oddly). There are tweaks out there which I’ve not investigated. Leaving the lid up seems to reduce it.

if the lid even stays up!

If you get a debut get the speed box. Changing the belt is a silly pain.

True re: lid! It’s got to be at a particular angle or it comes slamming down. Grounding wire occasionally works its way out at the back, and then there’s your delicate counterweight thread slipping off the notch. Plus speed change faff. I mean, it’s all *fine* but I do get the odd flashback to that old geezer from eBay packing my Gyrodec into the boot of his car 13 years ago and thinking I should’ve stopped him and handed back the money.

With a $3k budget and assuming you want to buy new and not mess around looking for used gear I'd get:

Record player: Pro-ject Debut Carbon EVO ($600) because it has a switch for 33/45 speed changes so you don't need to mess with the belt and is available in sexy colors. Sounds good, isn't fussy to use (mine doesn't have a hum!).

Amp/Receiver: Cambridge Audio AXR100 ($600), I like their "warm" tone compared to NAD/Marantz/Denon, opinions differ. Has a decent built-in phono amp, but a

Speakers: KEF Q350 ($500) and SVS SB-1000 Pro subwoofer ($600) or ELAC ELAC Uni-Fi 2.0 UB52 for $700 if you don't want a sub.

A separate phono amp if necessary. I use an ART DJPREII for $70, you could get a Pro-ject Phono Box MM for $90.

I tend to buy speakers and amps/receivers used online because you can get some really good deals on them, but it requires knowing which amp and speaker brands/models you like.

ignore that "but a" there is no but there!

Also, at this price point your room setup will be like half of how good your stereo sounds. Room size, reflections off flat surfaces, speaker position, sitting position, distance speakers are from walls/corners, sub placement... people never spend time or money on that stuff and it goes a lot further than dropping another $500 on speakers will.

If you have a place nearby that sells used gear and knows how to work on it/refurbish it, that is the best way to go with a turntable. Call them up and ask them what they've got or go have a look and research the tables available. There are a lot of good turntable brands and there's not a lot of parts, beyond cartridges and belts, that go bad on them. I started with a Debut Carbon and I still have it but it is my least favorite turntable and my other two (Thorens & Technics) were cheaper.

If you have a place nearby that sells used gear and knows how to work on it/refurbish it, that is the best way to go with a turntable.

agree with this. i would really advise against buying a Pro Ject or other "budget audiophile" turntables

decent for price: Pro-Ject Primary E Phono Turntable with Ortofon OM NN - Matte Black

Sony PSLX310BT Turntable with Bluetooth Connectivity (fully automatic) both of these turntables about $300

Cambridge Audio AXA35 stereo integrated amplifier (about $400. there are sooooo many comparable amps from denon/sony/cambridge/nad that are the same price or less that would be fine. $200 to $400 is reasonable for a beginning budget system.)

for speakers if you want bookshelf Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-600M are about $350 for a pair. the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-5000F floor-standing speakers are about $600 for a pair. you really don't want to spend less than $200 for speakers even for bookshelf. there are LOTS of nice speakers in the $600 range. just as there are lots of great turntables for that price.

i totally did not get that you were looking to pay $1000 each per component! oh well. well now you have a lot more room to buy better stuff.

and if anyone wants to buy a thousand dollar system look above this post.

i would buy this if i had the money cuz i'm lazy and would love a fully auto table in the bedroom.

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_349CS529WN/Dual-CS529-Walnut.html

I've got a Technics SL-1210 MKII with a fancy cart but stuff just sounds better on the Pro-Ject Debut, which is disappointing since I like using the Technics better.

these amps are nice: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_779CXA81M2/Cambridge-Audio-CXA81-Mk-II.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_642PM6007/Marantz-PM6007.html

its hard to spend just $1000 on speakers. you can spend less and you can spend more. these would be more than a thousand but i just like klipsch what can i say? https://www.crutchfield.com/p_7146KF2E/Klipsch-Reference-Premiere-RP-6000F-II-Ebony.html?tp=185

i like these because i like old speaker design. i'm not a fan of tower speakers. these are more than one grand though: https://www.crutchfield.com/p_700LNTNWN/Wharfedale-LINTON-Heritage-Walnut.html

if i had the money and was going to buy new speakers i would buy new klipsch heresy IV (4 grand) or forte IV (5 grand). but i do not have the money. i'm also okay with the old speakers i have.

I love my Paradigm speakers but I am def a minority there from what I gather

i think speakers are very subjective. you might love something and someone else might not like how they sound. i've set up speakers that i was sure i would love and just did not love them.

I have no complaints about my Paradigm speakers, tbh. They're from 2004ish, though.

I had Paradigm floorstanders from that era that I liked a lot.

I have a pair of bookshelf ones from maybe 2001, and big ones with the stands from I think 2006. Once I finally put a subwoofer in it all came together.

I am fully insane, building my own Linkwitz Lab speakers in a remote garage lab, and THESE SPEAKERS SOUND LIKE SHIT

I still have the Bose 301 Series II speakers I got in 1990 and they sound pretty damn good in addition to looking great and fitting perfectly in Skandia shelving.

Hey Scott have you heard the Heresy IV? They seem to be very polarizing speakers (not just the IV but the Heresy line in general). I’ve read a lot of negative stuff about them but am still drawn to them for some reason, been meaning to drive out to a dealer to check them out. Wouldn’t pay MSRP but maybe look out for a used pair in a few years for the basement / home office.

I got a great deal on a pair of those Linton Heritage speakers that I was going to use in the basement but I made the mistake of hooking them up in the living room first and my wife said “those are staying right here.” I wasn’t crazy about the stands that were designed for them so I have them on KLH Model 5 stands which are a perfect fit.

(On the Pro-Ject Debut — I’ve had one for close to 30 years, never an issue with hum or the anti-skate and don’t change speed often enough to be bothered by it, but yeah the dustcover had always been a bit fiddly.)

Looking at this Dual
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_349CS618BK/Dual-CS-618Q-Black-Vinyl-Finish.html

Or this Technics
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_133SL1500B/Technics-SL-1500C-Black.html

Only thing that bothers me about the Technics is a lack of of pitch/speed control, though admittedly in most situations for most people it isn't necessary. Otherwise it looks great.

Cal, do you not have a place that deals with used stuff? The prices for those turntables seems high for what you’re getting.

Afraid of getting ripped off and just prefer the sheen of new stuff

I bought that technics about 3 years ago & no regrets, I love it. Was planning spending about half that, but felt like I would not have to worry about my turntable again for a very very long time if I went for it. Incredibly solidly built, nice on-board phono amp, easy to change cartridge, no-faff speed change etc etc. iirc most complaints are about lift & lower (and particularly the semi-auto mechanism) feeling a bit feeble for the price but it hasn't bothered me.

You've probably seen this if you're researching it but its popular on the Hoffman forums - lot of threads discussing it.

The SL-1200s have certainly gone up in price!

The 1200 GR is over 4 grand

sorry its just G "Grand Class"
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-LbQy0uA1gcM/p_133GS1200S/Technics-SL-1200G-Grand-Class-Silver.html

a 1200mk7 is about £800 but yeah things escalate fast with the GR and G.

you would have to be a pretty fancy dj to take two of those to gigs. i never understood why people wanted deejay tables at home unless they liked to dj/mix/make beats at home. but just for listening, i wouldn't pay that money. you could get something better for sound. though they are fine. don't get me wrong. technics knows how to make them.

hmmm, if i had the money maybe this one for the bedroom and my lazy automatic needs. though thorens and dual make nice auto tables.

https://www.turntablelab.com/collections/turntables-high-end-alpha/products/pro-ject-automat-a2-automatic-sub-chassis-turntable

Would a DJ even touch a new Technics turntable these days? Seems like they're only interested in classic SL-1200 MK2 through 5s. Feels like they're marketing to audiophiles now.

I think that's right, judging by every conversation I've seen about the 1200G and GR. The strobe dots, pitch shifter etc feel more aesthetic than practical.

Most of my friends who have turntables have a 1200 (or two) just for home listening. I have a lot of brand loyalty to Technics, but I've never actually bought a turntable. I had my parents bottom of the line direct drive table from 1981 or so and it never had any issues, just worked every day. Then I found a SL-Q2 in my basement that works so that's what I use now. It's kind of like a 1200 without all the dj stuff.

I have an old SL-1600mk2 that I bought from the local record store >10 years ago. I had to replace the little belt on the tonearm auto-lifter with an o-ring because it became brittle and broke. It's been a tank and a joy to set up and maintain. I am also now loyal to Technics and direct drive. The one thing I had to replace was a belt.

Scott this js the kind of thing that drives me crazy - that $1500 turntable comes with a bottom tier stylus, so you have to add the cost of replacing it

That Dual at least comes with an ortofon red “upgrade” as standard

*blue

I ob-ject!

I wonder why none of the modern automatic turntables seem to have record size detection. It drives me crazy that all of these features were figured out 40 years ago but are sold as engineering or design premiums today. I suppose that applies to audiophile gear across the board and not just turntables.

i was surprised that that pro-ject automatic table that i posted a link to had a setting for 78. that's a rarity.

if it's direct drive that's pretty easy

yup, I think all the new technics can

you're right. i guess i'm just not use to seeing it on modern turntables. but thorens and dual always have 78 on their auto tables so maybe they all do.

I have a 1500-C that I bought because I was SO FUCKING SICK of every used TT I bought breaking down on me every month or 2. It’s been good, sounds awesome*, only thing as woof mentioned is the tonearm lift — mine broke a while back and I haven’t bothered to get it fixed. Definitely a sore spot for $1000!

Since I bought mine, I think technics released a version without a built-in preamp (which I don’t need, nor do you probably) for a little less $.

* Does not sound as good as my old Thorens TD-160, which SANG. But which also required to be babied to the point where my whole family was terrified to touch it, which is NO BUENO.

I can't remember if I have gone on about it but I have a Technics SL-10 linear tracking TT which I love dearly

it sounds wicked (with the OG EPS-310MC cart) - and is just a pleasure to use, a beautiful piece of design & engineering, released in 1979 and feels like it anticipates CD player design & functionality

recommended if you want a turntable that doesn't feel like a trad TT (and if you have limited space, it's approx the size of a record sleeve)

we got a music hall ikura for the store. its cool. simple. bought it from a guy who had a lot of snake oil theories about audio gear. but his ikura came with a sweet wood body grado cartridge. it sounds nice. its not...spectacular? i feel like i've had other tables that opened up records more. made them bloom. its an insanely quiet turntable though. they don't make it anymore. the design is cool. its sits strangely on these plinths. i dunno. someone had fun designing it.

https://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Music-Hall-Ikura-black-front-md.jpg

this is a good shot of the weird thing that the table sits on. you can lift the table right up and off.

https://www.buydig.com/shop/product-image.aspx?size=500&picId=174064

I googled that turntable and found this article, Music Hall Does Nice 'Jobs' With New ikura Turntable. I read the headline and thought "gross". Then I learned it was a pun on Steve Jobs and thought "GROSS!!!".

I have a wood body Grado!!

it's new, I got it because my MMF-5 developed an odd cartridge hum and I had to replace it after 17 years of faithful service. it's so delicate! I had to turn the weight up a bit.

In my cart:
Technics sl 1500 w/otrofon blue
Yamaha as301 amp
Nad preamp
Jbl l82s

In my cart:
gold bars
bezos yacht
eggs

I would get like a audio technica vmn40-ml over that orofon

Also probably best to by from a local shop where they can align the cartridge and tune it up etc for you

Sorry if this has all been addressed already

You need the pre-amp? The onboard phono stage is totally solid or better - I was happy with it for about 3 years & getting an external at the start of this year was basically an indulgence because I was fascinated by the praise for this guy's stuff. Also like that you could get a discount for paying in crypto or precious metals. I want my electrical engineers strange. (& it does sound great)

Cartridge - there a few fans of the AT-VM95ML here I think & imo it sounds great on the SL-1500c. I know there's a theoretical issue with the capacitance of the built in phono stage but i dunno I can't hear it.

Yeah! not sure I need the pre amp
Was going to a/b it and then return if not

How much difference does a moving coil make vs moving magnet

mm easier to deal with, an expensive mc probably better but you're looking at +1000$ pickups

There seem to be some avail for about 500 clams

You can’t replace the needle on a MC cartridge. You can usually trade in the old cartridge and the manufacturer will give you some credit towards a new one, or you can pay to have it retipped. If the rest of your gear isn’t top of the line, I wouldn’t fuck with MC.

xp yeah I meant for it to make sense to choose mc over mm you're probably looking at a pretty expensive cartridge + you want a very good preamp

Cost is no object
Build a system go!

aha! well, in that case I will have to admit that the best vinyl setup I ever listened to was based around an Ortofon Cadenza Black MC cartridge (and iirc a Rega Planar 6, some giant Pass Labs amp, Dali Epicon 2 speakers)

I was hearing things in records I'd never heard before

So I think if you can be bothered to set it up properly and if you have the money, MC is best

I've never really heard any money-no-object vinyl systems (can't even speak on MM vs MC) but getting a serious record cleaner (maybe a degritter?) would feel close to essential.

The ortofon black is $3g lol

reading about pass amps - "The INT-25 had a dynamic and lively sound with that mid warmth I have come to expect from Pass. The INT-250 was more airy and holographic and felt even more spatial and delicate when it comes to the details..." *groans*

the mouthfeel is fucking epic!!

*vomits*

Stuck between a sub 1k “my vibe” setup (miles ahead of what I used to have) or going 3k per component

you're really going to need to A/B "Fields Of Gold" by Sting if you want to compare the aural density and cross-burn

Supertramp half-speed masters or GTFO

The Nightfly

Stuck between a sub 1k “my vibe” setup (miles ahead of what I used to have) or going 3k per component

― calstars, Monday, February 17, 2025 3:17 PM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

buy something that won't break your heart if you get drunk and fall into it one night

My listening room is 18x12
I want to buy the jbl l82s but maybe too much power. But l52s look too small