The Go-Betweens - what's it all about?

I know there''s more to say, but I'll have to think it through :-)

Lyrics are not that important to me, so that doesn't save them. I've concluded that GBs devotees are just looking for completely different things in music, whatever they are, and we're just worlds apart. Like Pinefox, I'm curious to know what it is that people see in them, but I doubt that we'll find out.

However, they did not always wear the right trainers. And I agree that some of their album stuff is shite. I hope you keep listening, it's a filthy lie that pop music is always instantly "get"-able. Sometimes you have to persevere, dontcha? I hated Television the first time I heard them and they're now my fave band ever. i admit to loving the GBs on first listen, though.

That people find The Go-Betweens difficult puzzles me. I worry that I'm not attuned to the music enough to hear what's difficult about it. As for the melodies not being memorable, I don't know. I think I listen to them as a background to Robert Forster's voice and the subjects he sings about, and they add tremendously to the pathos of the songs. I don't think Robert Forster and Grant McLennan are clever lyricists, but I think they write with great feeling, and they see things that someone I could admire would see. It's the details.

If you don't like Robert Forster's voice or if lyrics don't matter to you, I can see how it would be hard to get into them.

By the way, I bought, read, and sold back this paperback called _The Go-Between_ by J.P. Hartley from a great used bookstore when I was in Amsterdam. I think a film was made based on the book with Lee Remick in the leading female role. Does anyone know if that's where they got their name from?

(like hear'say doing Simon and Garfunkel covers w/o the creative integrity)

I probably don't need to say here that lyrics do matter to me. I think it's possible, or arguable, that the G-Bs' lyrics are the best thing about them. I still think they're melodically weak. Occasionally (I'm thinking of 'Part Company') that doesn't matter, and can even become a kind of virtue.

I do think this band is a grower. I like them more than I did. But I still think they're somewhat overrated, because their tally of great tracks still seems to me rather small, given how long they've been at it.

Their records also tend to include really bad guitar solos.

a bit whispy, when I was younger I yawned violently to them, no I'm older and it all makes sense to me know *weeps*

Liberty Belle LP.

Liking 'In The Core Of A Flame', just now!

ooh la la

wonder if he'll bring the show down south?

I was wondering what he would do next -- and I don't blame him for catching his breath and looking back a bit, after everything.

I like the GoBetweens just fine and dandy, but I never loved them they way I loved their more racous countrymen such as The Triffids or The Moodists. At the more gentler end of the spectrum I always thought The Chills sounded more like how the 'tweens were described - and they never did anything as good as Pink Frost.

Hasn't someone (maybe it was you Sandy) said pretty much exactly this before?

goddamn i'd so go to that if i wasn't going to be in london then

I was wondering what he would do next -- and I don't blame him for catching his breath and looking back a bit, after everything.

not surprisingly, this coincides with the release of a split 90s best-of by he and McLennan solo

I always thought The Chills sounded more like how the 'tweens were described - and they never did anything as good as Pink Frost.

Um, wrong, in that while "Pink Frost" may be the absolute single peak of Martin Phillipps work there's so much else very close to that summit.

Funny, these memories, but I remember sitting with Martin Phillipps as he gazed at that double album Go-Betweens anthology (on vinyl) and told me how his goal was to make an album half as good as the Go-Betweens worst!

saw this thread as "cattle and cane" came on. weird.

Hard to believe it's been more than a year since McLennan's death.

Yeah, memories are funny. I recall a schoolboy... wait, no, I recall sitting with Martin and he's EXTREMELY modest about the quality of his work. His best is on the same level as Grant and Roberts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_nn90p-tIg

what a pretty song. though, sometimes i forget how awful and pointless so many mid-1980s videos were.

The song that introduced me to the Go-Be's. I don't get why this song is called overproduced; to me there's just enough reverb on the guitar hook, synth, and vocal to give it that nuevo Orbison vibe.

From an interview with one of the guys from No Age on Pfork this morning, regarding new album influences:

Pitchfork: Is there any brighter, more poppy music you have been listening to lately that might be having an influence?

RR: Yeah, actually. The Go-Betweens have been on rotation. They have a really interesting sort of sound collage. That and this band Disco Inferno have been two references for us in a lot of ways. There's a fun-ness in there. Disco Inferno is really heavily sample-based, but still has this pop element. There's this record D.I. Go Pop that I have been listening to a lot during the creation of this.

That's interesting .... Haven't really been nuts about the No Age I've heard, but a Go-B's influence would be welcome! Hey if you're wondering what the latter day go-betweens were all about, my friend put together a best of the 2000s mix of the band over yonder .... http://ow.ly/11qAR ... it's very good!

We're doing this, on Sunday afternoon, in London:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gGTkjs7tinQ/UVyLUBUzysI/AAAAAAAAApk/bNVaRQXFd68/s320/Grant+McLennan+tribute.jpg

Details here: http://hangoverlounge.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/the-third-annual-grant-mclennan-tribute.html

Would go to this but I'll probably be watching a lot of football, should be ashamed of myself

One of my fave t-shirts:

http://www.gobetweensstore.co.uk/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/mclennanT-large.jpg

man i would so go to that hangover lounge thing if i lived in london. i don't even know what it is but I'd go! was just listening to a pretty wild bootleg of the trio go-Bs from 1982. kind of amazing they made tallulah a couple years later -- this thing is spikey as hell.

I actually prefer the earlier work, especially Before Hollywood, over the late '80s stuff like 16 Lovers Lane. I dunno, I just find a track like 'A Bad Debt Follows You', with its spiky guitars and shifting time signatures, much more interesting than the U2-isms of 'Quiet Heart'.

"Quiet Heart" only sounds like U2 because of "With or Without You."

The female harmonies in Streets Of Your Town are the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. Beyond that, I dig Spring Rain because of that guitar riff that's in Kingpin that I spent 10 years trying to identify. That's about it for me though.

Hey, don't ruin "Quiet Heart" for me by making a U2 association!

feel like i've heard Forster say that song started out as a jesus and mary chain thing?

My fav T-shirt ever.
http://www.gobetweensstore.co.uk/products/hammert-large.jpg

where the streets of your town have no name

i don't get the u2 thing at all, but yes i would love to hear more spiky guitar go-betweens a la man o'sand to girl o'sea

Every line in "Quiet Heart" reverberates ("We're trying hard to keep this warmth in"). Plus: harmonica solo instead of guitar!

http://damienpower.com.au/2013/04/spleen-archives-grant-mclennan-interview/
coincidence not

Well, our Third Annual Grant McLennan Tribute Day was a proper treat, not least (but not only) because Robert Forster showed up and treated us to a couple of songs. Amazing.

oh wow! that's fucking great!

Is Robert coming out with a new album anytime soon? "The Evangelist" was his greatest work.

that's awesome re: robert showing up...maybe he's in London recording?

Would go to great lengths to see him play.

"The Evangelist" was his greatest work.

sure is

i'd say it's neck and neck with danger in the past in terms of his solo work, but that is high praise from me.

Forster video at Hangover lounge blog

I love The Evangelist, one of the most moving albums I've ever heard. Would love another album soon.

Tylerw, apparently he played in Barcelona on Saturday night and then took an early flight (without sleep) to London to be at our event. Not sure how long he's planning to stay, but I haven't heard that he's playing any shows here. We were all extremely thrilled that he was there, as you can probably imagine. There were a bunch of his old friends around on the day, including (coincidentally) Mick Harvey, who was played a show in the same room that evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKxhevymXVM

Soothing, comforting, reflective. Just lovely. Especially today.

Waking up this morning to that video. Thank you.

A+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU-RsLRICX4

thanks, i had forgotten how good that song was. one if those few tunes which touch something deep inside. that chord sequence is magic indeed. it has got this melancholic feel, i think it encapsulates a wisdom about the transience of life. and if you think about the early disappearance of grant mclennan, it even gets more under your skin.

McLennan's harmonies on the original are beautiful -- it's as much a song about male friendship as it is a romance.

i was thinking recently about how the go-betweens might be the only group that reunited after a long period where i wouldn't necessarily prefer a concert without post-reunion material to a concert with post-reunion material. Really wish that I could, too.

Mclennan's tunes on 16 immediately grabbed me but Forster's seemed more rewarding long term

yep. I think McLennan peaked as a Go-Be on Tallullah.

I think McLennan's four solo albums are packed with great stuff.

Agreed, particularly Horsebreaker Star. I meant as a Go-Be though. "Streets of Your Town" and "Quiet Heart" aside, the 16LL stuff is mushy.

Has anyone seen this? Supposedly released last month (http://www.go-betweens.net/news.htm).
http://www.go-betweens.net/images/GBboxs.jpg

mysterious! seems like the people over on the go betweens message board don't know much either -- don't think it's actually out though.

Box set coming in a couple of weeks. I'm very curious about the unreleased stuff on the CDs but honestly if it's all like "78-79 The Lost Album" it's not much more than a curiosity.

i don't know, i love that 78-79 material -- but it is kind of like an entirely different band in a lot of ways.
wish i could afford this thing! anyone seen any awesome deals on it?

Is there much unreleased stuff? My nearest Go-Betweens expert told me that there was very little.

I thought the Jetset doubles ten years ago took care of unreleased material.

Ah, I've looked it up now; four CDs of rare, hard to-find and unreleased material apparently. I imagine when he said "there's nothing new", he meant new to him.

Rare and hard to find if you don't have the previous reissues, probably.

Is there a track source listing for the CDs in the new box set? I can't tell which are live, demo, radio session, etc.

wondering the same thing, not really willing to crack open the cd shrinks to find out

i must say lee remick / karen has never sounded better

LP #1 The First Five Singles
side A: Lee Remick
People Say
I Need Two Heads
Your Turn, My Turn
Hammer The Hammer
side B: Karen
Don’t Let Him Come Back
Stop Before You Say It
World Weary
By Chance

LP #2 Send Me A Lullaby
side A: Your Turn, My Turn
One Thing Can Hold Us
People Know
The Girls Have Moved
Midnight To Neon
Eight Pictures
side B: Careless
All About Strength
Ride
Hold Your Horses
Arrow In A Bow
It Could Be Anyone

LP #3 Before Hollywood
side A: A Bad Debt Follows You
Two Steps Step Out
Before Hollywood
Dusty In Here
Ask
side B: Cattle And Cane
By Chance
As Long As That
On My Block
That Way

LP #4 Spring Hill Fair
side A: Bachelor Kisses
Five Words
The Old Way Out
You’ve Never Lived
Part Company
side B: Slow Slow Music
Draining The Pool For You
River Of Money
Unkind And Unwise
Man O’Sand To Girl O’Sea

CD #1 Life As Sweet As Lemonade
Rarities Volume One: 1978-79
I Want To Be Today
The Sound Of Rain
People Say
Don’t Let Him Come Back
Long Lonely Day
Day For Night
Love Wasn’t Made For You And Me
Just Hang On
Summer’s Melting My Mind
Obsession With You
The Night
Rare Victory
Big Sleeping City
Beachcomber
The Missing One
I Am An Architect
8 Pictures
The Green Light Don’t Mean Go
Cold Flame (It Burns)
Help Or Something
Only Sinners Care
Lies

CD #2 Skeletons That Cry
Rarities Volume Two: 1980-81
Don’t Let Him Back
The Clowns Are In Town
Serenade Sound
Sunday Night
Hope
It Took You A Week
Day After Tomorrow
I Know Why
Circle You
I Need Two Heads
All About Strength
One Word
Red Epaulettes

CD #3 Live 82
Rarities Volume Three: Live at The Mosman Hotel April 23, 1982
Metal And Shells
Your Turn, My Turn
Careless
Distant Hands
Hammer The Hammer
People Know
I Need Two Heads
One Thing Can Hold Us
Near The Chimney
Undo What You Did
By Chance
It Could Be Anyone

CD #4 A Suicide Note To Satan
Rarities Volume Four: 1982-84
A Peaceful Wreck
Heaven Says
On My Block
Cattle And Cane
Hammer The Hammer
Man O’Sand To Girl O’Sea
Newton Told Me
Man O’Sand To Girl O’Sea
This Girl, Black Girl
Emperor’s Courtesan
Attraction
Marco Polo Jr.
Sweet Tasting Hours
Part Company
Bachelor Kisses
The Old Way Out
Unkind And Unwise
Just A King In Mirrors
Rare Breed
Secondhand Furniture
The Power That I Now Have
Five Words
For Him

sooooo is it true there are speed issues w/ some of this set? people are saying the lost album stuff is really slowed down?

Yah, that's the tracklisting but it needs annotations. Honestly there's not much unreleased material that's more than merely interesting. "Red Aeppalets" Is probably the best of them. I'm quite happy with the 2cd reissues, I don't think they skipped any studio b-sides.

sooooo is it true there are speed issues w/ some of this set? people are saying the lost album stuff is really slowed down?

i haven't played the vinyl but the downloads sound 100% correct

The "lost album stuff" is all alternate recordings, save one tune. For the record, there are 52 songs on the CDs which are otherwise unavailable on CD.

These are (broken down by CD and listed by track number on the relevant CD:

CD 1:
1) I Want To Be Today
3) People Say
4) Don’t Let Him Come Back
5) Long Lonely Day
6) Day For Night
7) Love Wasn't Made For You And Me
8) Just Hang On
9) Summer’s Melting My Mind
10) Obsession With You
11) The Night
12) Rare Victory
13) Big Sleeping City
14) Beachcomber
15) The Missing One
16) I Am An Architect
17) 8 Pictures
18) The Green Light Don't Mean Go
19) Cold Flame (It Burns)
20) Help Or Something
21) Only Sinners Care
22) Lies


CD 2:
1) Don’t Let Him Come Back
6) It Took You A Week
7) Day After Tomorrow
8) I Know Why
9) Circle You
10) I Need Two Heads
11) All About Strength
12) One Word
13) Red Epaulettes

CD 3: (live show - all 12 songs previously unreleased)

CD 4:
3) On My Block
4) Cattle And Cane
5) Hammer The Hammer
6) Man O' Sand To Girl O' Sea
14) Part Company
15) Bachelor Kisses
16) The Old Way Out
17) Unkind And Unwise
18) Just A King In Mirrors
19) Rare Breed

A lot of stuff (but not the stuff above) was made available on the 2xCD reissues, but these tracks are exclusive to those:

Send Me A Lullaby:
1) Hammer The Hammer (except this is on the vinyl LP of the first five singles)
3) Just A King In Mirrors
6) Near The Chimney
8) Exception Of Deception (or How The Broadway Bosses Beat Me Out Of My Bucks)

Before Hollywood:
3) I Need Two Heads (except this is on the vinyl LP of the first five singles)
7) Stop Before You Say It (except this is on the vinyl LP of the first five singles)
8) World Weary (except this is on the vinyl LP of the first five singles)
9) Distant Hands
10) Undo What You Did
11) Cracked Wheat
12) After The Fireworks

Spring Hill Fair:
2) Rare Breed
10) Unkind & Unwise (instrumental)

The alternate early stuff on CD #1 isn't all that enthralling, but things pick up on CD #2, and the live stuff on CD #3 is amazing and the unreleased stuff on CD #4 UTTERLY LIFE-CHANGING, including "new" versions of Man O'Sand, Cattle And Cane, Unkind And Unwise, Hammer The Hammer and others. The booklet is amazing. I got two signed books, all the other stuff and a handwritten letter from Robert thanking me for being a long-time fan. Sweet.

Some of the stuff on CD1 does sound a bit off, but not terribly. It's not my favorite period so it doesn't bother me.

It's true about the unreleased *songs* not being all that much - but there aren't too many of them anyhow - less than a dozen (?)

But the unreleased versions of the Before Hollywood / Spring Hill Fair eras are fantastic.

All the b-sides were on the relevant 2xCDs, with the exception of "Just A King In Mirrors," which makes its first appearance in the original recording here. And it's one of my favourite tunes / versions of theirs!

(Except "After, After The Firewords," the b-side of the Go-Betweens / Birthday Party collaboration, still unreleased on CD but no great shakes.

Kicking myself I didn't buy this on the pre-order.

But some of those versions are live, single versions and radio sessions, does the booklet identify those?

what is the deal with this? ONLY available by pre-order? wish i'd pre-ordered; yet worried about speed issues. life is hard.

Ugh I know [weeps softly as quiet heart plays]

when push comes to shove, i'm most interested in the book.

i'm pretty annoyed that you have to buy redundant (for me) vinyl versions of the proper albums in order to get the CDs with the unreleased stuff.

i mean, i guess it makes commercial sense for them, so good on that, i guess. but no thanks.

xpost me too. plus i already have all of the 2cd sets.

yeah, i've bought most of their albums twice -- older 1-cd reissues, those 2-cd things. i'm not going to buy them a 3rd time. :(

To answer some of those questions - the book is great - beautifully done and informative. There are some discographical notes in the book about the source of the recordings, and there is more information within the booklets for each CD. Between them, the picture is clear. I've copied all the CD tracks to my computer for easy listening and put away the box, but because I AM AWESOME, I shall delineate the origins of the rare tracks for you here:

CD 1:
1) I Want To Be Today
- studio October, 1978 w/ Peter Walsh on guitar, recorded the same time as the "known" early version of Don't Let Him Come Back."

3) People Say
4) Don’t Let Him Come Back
5) Long Lonely Day
6) Day For Night
7) Love Wasn't Made For You And Me
8) Just Hang On
9) Summer’s Melting My Mind
10) Obsession With You
11) The Night
12) Rare Victory
13) Big Sleeping City
14) Beachcomber
15) The Missing One
16) I Am An Architect
17) 8 Pictures
18) The Green Light Don't Mean Go
19) Cold Flame (It Burns)
20) Help Or Something
21) Only Sinners Care
22) Lies
- all of the above are studio demos (more like decently recorded rehearsals, really) recorded by Gerry Teekman from May to October 1979.


CD 2:
1) Don’t Let Him Come Back
- recorded at the Glasgow College Of Technology, April, 1980 w/ Stephen Daly of Orange Juice on drums - this apparently live, but sounds like a rehearsal take - interesting, though it sounds like it was dubbed from cassette

6) It Took You A Week
- early studio version from Brisbane, May, 1981 w/ Lindy on drums

7) Day After Tomorrow (this is an early version of "Hold your Horses")
8) I Know Why
9) Circle You
10) I Need Two Heads
11) All About Strength
12) One Word
- all the above tracks recorded in the studio by Gerry Teekman, in June, 1981

13) Red Epaulettes
- great live track from Brisbane, 1981 engineered by Gerry Teekman - an otherwise missing classic.

CD 3: (live show - all 12 songs previously unreleased)
ACTUALLY, I take this back - "Distant Hands" is the same version as on the 2xCD "Before Hollywood" - but everything else unreleased. This is an *astonishing* live show - the Subway Sect-ish weirdness of the early stuff played with fire and energy. Crucial.

CD 4:
3) On My Block
4) Cattle And Cane
5) Hammer The Hammer
- recorded live to air for Swiss Radio - sound and performances are amazing. "Hammer The Hammer" particularly fine.

6) Man O' Sand To Girl O' Sea
- rejected studio single version

14) Part Company
- earlier studio version - great, with some interesting lyrical differences and a wee bit less polish

15) Bachelor Kisses
16) The Old Way Out
17) Unkind And Unwise
- early studio demos - brilliant, especially "Unkind And Unwise"

18) Just A King In Mirrors
19) Rare Breed
- these are the original 12" b-side versions, unreleased on CD until now JAKIM is way superior to the other version, IMO

Of the otherwise never-released-on-CD stuff, aside from the Swiss radio session (if you count that) and the two listed live tracks and the entirely live CD, there isn't anything "live" of the rare tracks, although a lot of CD #1 is kind of live-in-studio.

Hope this helps!

wonder if there's any chance in hell of this stuff being released in a slightly more affordable/less lavish format? pleeaassse?

as much as I love these guys I have no interest in owning this. The Ryan Maffei essay inside is first-rate though.

Crusty, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much! The tracks you didn't list, there's no info for them?

(i think) 3 of the last few tracks on 'suicide note' are from a peel session

The tracks I don't list feature on the 2xCD reissues, the Lost Album or the Peel Sessions EP - what I list is the stuff that's not on CD anywhere else, ie, you can only get it here.

Grant's pretty gold in this lolzy Brisbane hometown interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfiOt6CIvEM

My favourite cities in the world - and this isn't one - have harbours....

haha, that is a good one...
still digging through the box set -- so much cool stuff. wonder if they'll do another pressing of it? perhaps in more affordable format? that would be cool.

I've had my eye on that boxset... and the rising ebay prices make me antsy to nab the one at my former place of employment that's still there. Though I can't justify another splurge.

https://scontent.fsnc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/t31.0-0/p526x296/13724083_1141012472608806_6727107650706108692_o.jpg
Forster sez: Here in this post is the cover of my book 'Grant & I'. Seven years in the writing, to be released in Australia and New Zealand on Penguin/ Random House at the end of August. I hasten to add It is currently on prospective publishing house desks around the world, and I hope it will be taken up and available everywhere. The book has been a massive undertaking - to tell the story and learn how to tell it over 87,000 words. I have little idea how it will be received, as only a few people involved with its production have read it, and I am in the days before reviews appear and the opinion of friends around the world arrive. So I am nervous. Knowing though that I gave it my best and when I read some of its pages, I always want to read more. A good sign. I look forward to it being in shops and in people's hands and hearing reactions. My final word on it for now, is that it is a book about a friendship, and one that existed almost as much in the years when we weren't in the band, as when we were.

That's one for the Christmas stocking.

Look forward to reading that.

B-b-but why is there a picture of Gerard Depardieu on the cover?

That looks so great. I only just ordered Robert Forster's 10 Rules of Rock n Roll the other day.

The book looks just great. As for the big question posed by this thread, well, I have come to think that the Go-Betweens were pretty much what Pavement wanted to be, but with a romantic side Pavement never had. Post-punk with Guy Clark hanging around at the bar, if you will. If anything, Forster and McLennan were every bit the equal of lauded songwriters like Clark or Townes Van Zandt or any number of Nashville or Memphis tunesmiths. I don't own the box, but a friend of mine does, and I've heard the tracks (the remastering of Spring Hill Fair, which is my favorite album when Tallulah isn't, is superb. And the demos and live stuff are often stunning, with the version of "Part Company" particularly stunning. These guys were musical--the oddball meters and foreshortened licks were integrated structurally into song form that hits my ears as addictive as, say, Big Star's stuff, just way more skewed and modest and literary. And the box contains this live-with-John-Peel version of the Spring Hill track "Five Words" that may be the greatest thing the band ever did, or at least the one track you'd play to demonstrate how a literary band with seemingly little song smarts turned out to be songful as hell. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4snhqQ9eP24

"Five Words" always reminds me a little bit of Seals and Crofts' "Diamond Girl."

They probably liked Seals and Crofts.

Yeah, the intro to "Part Company" is like Seals and Crofts play Television.

I'm definitely looking forward to reading that!

Review of Forster's memoir:

The heart of the book, though, is about a close friendship with someone who remained unknowable: a “naive boy” who kept a close watch on his inner life, only to pour it out in songs such as the revered Cattle and Cane and its companion, Dusty in Here. Both songs reference McLennan’s father, who died when he was six. Yet as Grant & I (and the band’s career) unfurls, McLennan recedes; as his friendship with Forster is attenuated to a few words or glances, it’s easy to lose sight of him.

And in this, there is an omission. The shadow of heroin hangs over this book, but we don’t know of it until Forster drops the bombshell of his own diagnosis with hepatitis C, a likely consequence of his own dabbling with the drug. It’s well known in rock circles that McLennan was a long-term user; Steve Kilbey’s book Something Quite Peculiar speaks bitterly of McLennan introducing him to opiates, and the journalist Clinton Walker has also written of his habit.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/australia-books-blog/2016/aug/29/grant-i-review-the-go-betweens-robert-forster-grant-mclennan-moving-definitive-portrait

ha, Lindy pops up the comments there ... knew of mclennan's heroin habits, didn't know of forster's ... seems it was really a big part of the aussie music scene in the 80s.

Thanks for a reminder that this book is coming out.

That photo there sure captures a divide -- the 'regular' McLennan, Forster going for the alien sculpted beauty look.

love goes on anyway

Lindy's comment is definitely the clearest I've seen regarding that whole legal tangle.

love how she wouldn't name them, just used "the songwriters"

yeah it's a bummer they still haven't really buried the hatchet (though maybe there's not outright animosity). though it was obviously mclennan/forster focused, it is impossible to imagine the bulk of the GB's best stuff w/o morrison.

Yeah, harsh, but she says no ill will.

still think "twin layers of lightning" (which i think is about forster/morrison's relationship) is one of the best/weirdest love songs.

On how many GBs tracks was Lindy replaced by a drum machine? "Bachelor Kisses"?

That early?

And what other pop star has written as well as Forster? Caetano Veloso? Scott Miller?

Johnny Mercer

xpost Do you mean prose?

In that case, Chico Buarque.

And what's-his-name, our own Chachi Loves Aerosmith, apparently, although I personally have not read yet

Prose, yeah. I haven't read Buarque...

Chuck Berry
Dean Wareham

Keen to get the book, curious if the second and third box sets are still happening/progressing.

anyone seen the film?

https://vimeo.com/243460646

I liked it a lot.
A genuinely odd cast of characters they were. Not odd like Klaus Nomi or GG Allin, but subtly off. That def comes across.
Lots of genuine warmth (particularly in the direction of GM from RF) and a real awareness of what they actually were.

I found it kinda beautiful.

i wish it was twice as long.

the Forster book is among the best rock memoirs I've read.

Been reading some of Robert's stuff in The 10 Rules of Rock and Roll and finding it pretty well written so based on that and positive reviews by the likes of Alfie and a writer in the Grauniad I think I am going to have to buy it.

Second “it” meaning the memoir

Don't call me Alfie, please.

So sorry. I thought I saw someone else do it, but perhaps they were referring to another poster who actually went by that name.

Might also have been subconscious effect of watching Jeopardy! with the Redd family and seeing a question about Maurice Micklewhite.

it's all good!

Was wondering if albums had even been polled and found that this was the relevant thread Best Go-Betweens Album, which contains as a bonus a link to your piece about Spring Hill Fair

Thanks! And here's yet another good Go-Bets thread. For instance, you might (and well you might) scroll down to May 2015, where the links that I posted back then and just now checked still work, though haven't yet tried 'em all; quite a few are on that doomandgloomfromthetomb page I started with (thanks for those, tyler):
The Go-Betweens - POX or CDR

Thanks. Been randomly listening to the catalog today, both group and solo. Right now totally digging The Evangelist.

What is weird electro-noise which arrives with first chorus of Part Company that sounds like a cross between a theremin and a hissing radiator?

That's the instrumental element which most haunted me; it sounded like a tea kettle.

And RF doesn’t give the secret away in Grant & I?

He gives away too many secrets about McLennan.

What is weird electro-noise which arrives with first chorus of Part Company that sounds like a cross between a theremin and a hissing radiator?

I think that's Jacques Loussier on a Prophet 5.

Has anyone heard anything as to whether the second box set is still happening?

the door is open wide!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDe9BGNBnM

Best use of oboe in pop music?

Yep! I've said so.

only Roxy comes close ("Out of the Blue," "Nightingale").

but what about "Crazy For You"!???
(just kidding, "bye bye pride" is the best use of oboe in pop music)

Nightswimming is pretty great but this makes me want to dance in the street with strangers.

amanda brown guested with R.E.M. a couple times right? Maybe she was playing violin there ...

does the cor anglais in "life in a northern town" count as as an oboe? judges?

what a song

On this video of “Head Full of Steam” looks like Amanda is playing a violin through an effect to make it sound like an oboe or something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuuqJGLgjXw

The official video for “Head Full of Steam” is, um, interesting.

Enjoyed recently discovering the cover of “Bachelor Kisses” by The Radio Dept.

Okay, got the book and have been reading over the weekend and have to say Alfred, as is the case more often than not, is right: it is one of the better rock memoirs. It hits the sweet spot of telling you stuff you wanted to know along with things you didn't think to ask about and seems to avoid, as far as I can tell as far as I have read, some of the obvious traps- score settling, evasion, meaningless digression or page-filling, embarrassing defensiveness, reinterpretation or misinterpretation regarding the author's own work. He is careful and cagey in describing Grant, playing one card at a time, interested to see what will be revealed as I get further along in the story.

Yes, Forster is a writer: he doesn't insist on proving a thesis. What he has to share about his best friend he will do in a leisurely manner after he has limned scenarios.

He seems to be one of the few people besides myself who likes the Bryan Ferry record Dylanesque. I will have to reread his piece on that and reflect.

Read through to end this weekend. Did not disappoint

second box set is definitely happening -Robert mentioned it at a London book launch/concert thing late last year

Thanks Jamie!

I'd been meaning to read the book for a while, so I just bought it. No library in our multi-library system had a copy!

Listening to Oceans Apart a lot, and to the '78-'90 comp. "Born to a Family" and "Second Hand Furniture." Oceans, with all its interesting feints and digressions, is the realization of their super-MOR Glen Campbell- John Phillips-Jimmy Webb concept. Only comparable fairly recent album I can think of is Freedy Johnston's similarly Webb-ian Neon Repairman.

Hmm, never really thought of that album as particular MOR in style. Anyway, "Finding You" is a beaut. That and "The Clock" are total late-era Grant keepers, though all three comeback albums are strong in their own ways, with the former two charmingly tentative (in a sense) and the last one totally assertive in its swing-for-the-fences confidence.

super-MOR Glen Campbell- John Phillips-Jimmy Webb

OTM

Oceans Apart is their great record, after several excellent ones.

Oceans Apart is excellent but it's also a disappointingly bad master. This was the album that led me to learn more about the "loudness wars". I remembering reading that Yep Roc were considering a remaster but saw nothing further. Did this ever happen?

It did. I bought the remastered version (after trading in the original) and it does indeed sound better.

Lomax also made replacement discs but I never got around to requesting one.

Downy Mildew: Classic or Mold Spore

Hi! We're from Downy Mildew! And we've got a new album out called Mincing Steps!
This is all I know of them. Hilarious, nonetheless.

― Ally C, Wednesday, February 20, 2002 8:00 PM (fifteen years ago)

The above being a quote from Live On Snap, which I prefer somewhat to That Striped Sunlight Sound.

Have to see it took me ages to get into this band originally because I was put off by the post-punk yelping on the first album. Now I have changed my tune and am in completely in awe of the, um, fecundity and longevity of their creative partnership.

The Go-Betweens, that is, not Downy Mildew

The first album works in its way. The bass playing is enthusiastic and amazingly good for someone who apparently hadn't done it before. Just listened to it the other day and it's actually full of great ideas that are executed with a certain flair. In the post-Beefheart sweepstakes that record and all their stuff is a pretty amazing thing to contemplate, altho I also listened to "Just a King in Mirrors" the other day, and that's one of their best Velvets rips. The guitar obbligato in "Second Hand Furniture" is very Beefheart. Not that it may have been intentional. The non-idiomatic idioms are so fucking elusive somehow even when they play funk in the song that goes "they're taking heaven away" it's not quite like Pylon or Gang of Four at the same time, or even Pavement later, though lots of similarities.

All well and good but what about the first album, Send Me A Lullaby?

not very good

But yeah, the Beefheart similarity you point out is useful to contemplate.

It's not as good as Before Hollywood etc but I also don't think it's a bad record. I suppose technically I would agree it's not very good, it's just good.

Mind you I absolutely love the Lost Album stuff, so maybe the early stuff is just more to my tastes. I don't think Send Me A Lullaby is as good as the Lost Album though.

Me neither

As a piece of music the first album is quite good and as a collection of songs it's just not done with enough skill, so I don't think it's bad at all. Get a little band together with a good bassist and do that stuff now with a couple of singers who enunciate a bit more and can put those words across, that record would come alive like a Pylon dance party or something.

The singing is pretty bad on Send Me A Lullaby. Plus the songs are trying too hard to be all angular and post-punk, something they didn't completely shake off till 16 Lovers Lane.

... I like them angular and awkward but they weren't very good at it that stage, apart from Lindy, who was easily the best musician in the band.

I'm not keen on their pre-Before Hollywood stuff. I agree with Tom D; they were aiming for an angularity that they weren't proficient enough to pull off

I think the tension between the sprung-rhythm aspect of their style (and their fairly amazingly unobtrusive use of the 3/4-/4/4 tension thruout) and the Guy Van Zandt-Towne Clark Parsons aspect of their songwriting is what makes Spring Hill Fair unique and probably their best album overall if Tallulah isn't. Esp. on the versions of the material from around then that ended up on the box, "Part Company" and "Heaven Says" and "Rare Breed." I think they moving toward straight rock or singer-songwriter rock on all their early records, actually, apart from the first one, certainly by Liberty Belle it's just more straightforward and more attuned to normal rock dynamics, I guess.

For me the best of the original run are Tallulah and Liberty Belle. Do you still dislike the bridge of “Bachelor Kisses,” Alfred? The Radio Dept. cover I recently mentioned seems to dispense with it.

Oceans, um, flows so nicely, and seems to have no clunkers or clunky moments and still has some of their best songs so I am leaning towards agreeing with Alfred that it is the best overall.

Go-Betweens are my favorite band ever, and Oceans Apart is my least favorite album of theirs! The mastering is truly horrendous. It's so choked.

Similar to the recent XTC poll, a tracks poll would be pretty interesting as they changed so much over the years and there doesn't seem to be a consensus among die-hards. I know people who only like the Lost Album stuff, other people who only like the post-punk/angular crazier zone, and other people who only like the swooning, lush straight-forward stuff, and even people who only like the second-wave albums.

Worse than BYBO or Send Me a Lullaby?

at any rate the remastering problem was solved

I struggle to rank the recordings but I can say that I almost never feel any need to revisit Oceans Apart or BYBO.

Not all of Lullaby works but I've listened to it an awful lot over the decades. I'm very forgiving when things are so odd rhythmically.

For me BYBO and Lullaby are the other two in the "weak tier", but Oceans is the weakest for me. I do actually like all of them though!

Is the mastering fixed on Spotify? Get a load of that bridge on Finding You! Sounds like a FM radio station broadcasting a recording of another FM radio station.

Lavender is the only weak spot on Oceans Apart for me. Finding You, Born To A Family, The Statue and This Night's For You are some of my favourite Go-Betweens moments. Bright Yellow Bright Orange is by far the weakest of the reunion releases, but it's still a really solid listen. Send Me A Lullaby is their only below average release. It's surprising really as most of those early singles around the same time were great, especially Hammer The Hammer and I Need Two Heads.

Ongoing amazement that "This Night's For You" hasn't been licensed for every beer commercial on TV. Basically the Lowenbrau theme x 1000.

BYOB's problem, I told Forster when I interviewed him in 2006, was the self-production wasn't up to the band's increasingly ornate arrangement ideas. They'd regained their confidence and needed a producer up to the task.

i've been wanting to buy Oceans Apart but now i'm a little gunshy, don't want to wind up with the first version. sounds like the remaster was out only a few months after the initial version?

we'll create an ad hoc listening committee for you

i expect a report on my desk by Friday

BYOB's problem, I told Forster when I interviewed him in 2006, was the self-production wasn't up to the band's increasingly ornate arrangement ideas. They'd regained their confidence and needed a producer up to the task

I'm sure he appreciated your input and took it into account

Oceans Apart still sounds like shit on Spotify, notably the digital distortion on the chorus to This Night's For You. I'd otherwise rep for this album being top 3 GoBs but no, the lousy mastering is just too deflating.

He did mention in hus memoir how dull BYBO sounded.

Xpost

Oceans Apart still sounds like shit on Spotify, notably the digital distortion on the chorus to This Night's For You. I'd otherwise rep for this album being top 3 GoBs but no, the lousy mastering is just too deflating.

― doug watson,

I still own the original shit version, still love it. I've never let shitty mixing affect my enjoyment; it's the songs. That same year Sleater Kinney released a similarly shit-sounding album that happened to be mediocre because half the tunes were retreads.

I envy your tolerance of overly loud mastering.

where can we stream the doc btw?

Oceans Apart is great. Sadly, as it's Grant's last recorded work, I think Robert is strongest here. Grant's tracks stray a little too close to the middle of the road for my taste. Whereas Robert comes out with all cylinders firing on Here Comes A City. And I have a particular soft spot for Darlinghurst Nights, as I was living in Darlinghurst at the same time as they were and I'd see them round. I even know what restaurant Robert means when he's talking about gut-rot cappuccino and spaghetti...

Forster has been the strongest writer since 1988, but McLennan rose to the challeneg in OA.

The Statue is my favourite Go-Betweens song.

ABC (Aus) is streaming the documentary for another week or so, though one might need to convince the server you're in Australia.

http://iview.abc.net.au/programs/go-betweens-right-here/

just for info that ABC link is actually a 60min TV cutdown of the full doco which is about 90 minutes

what got lopped i have no idea

Oceans Apart is definitely a Top 3 Go-Betweens LP for me

XP: re 60 vs 90 minutes, there is (or was) a good half an hour of 'extras' on the site too, in maybe ten installments, which may or may or not make up the balance.

I just dug out BYBO and OA for reappraisal while driving. Perhaps today is the day they become adorable.

any reason why a few but not all of their albums are on spotify? were they all on different labels originally?

Been on a BYBO binge recently, have grown to love it as much as any other GBs album with the exception of the peerless Liberty Belle. I think it's a better record than this thread would have you believe.

I have been digging it as well and concur that it is being undersold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P5ymx-Iz5k

^ Gosh! I must only have heard the other Peel session.

BYBO *is* good! I listened to it several times this week. The overall sound of it is preferable to Oceans Apart, I think, whereas I would initially have agreed that it seemed a tad under-cooked.

I've been reading Forster's book, and not only is it extremely well written but it's making me think about the band in ways I've never really thought about before. That's partly because of how mysterious I've always found the Go-Betweens, which in the past made me as wary of revelations as leaning in too close to pick out discernible song meanings and specific lyrics - too special for scrutiny. All I know is that playing the band's albums on shuffle right now, it's kind of unbearable, especially those songs like "Spring Rain," "Cattle and Cane," Finding You" and "Clouds" (to name four songs shuffle has just given me in succession) that are almost too pretty for words.

god "Finding You" and "Clouds"

The Go-Betweens is also one of the few bands which got back together years later (well Robert and Grant did in any case) and produced stuff that is as good as their earlier incarnation.

Wishing Glen Campbell had done "No Reason to Cry." Forster says it could've happened--did Julian Raymond play it for Glen? Who had just come in from the golf course?

Finished the book, which handles Grant's death in a really touching way. Something that surprised me - and I must admit to being attuned to this since the conspicuous exclusions in the Tom Petty bio(s) - is that there is very little specific stuff about substance abuse until the end, when Robert admits to casual needle use as the source of his Hep C. Apparently heroin (assuming that's what it was) abounded in the Aussie underground scene, maybe more than in most places - everyone from Nick Cave to Steve Kilbey to Paul Kelly (!) had heroin problems - but what surprised me is that I thought it was *Grant* who had been a longtime heroin user. But the book never brings it up at all, despite painting him as a pretty serious drinker, implied to be his excess of choice (though the book never blames alcohol for bad behavior or anything, just as a health concern, which indeed implies some heavy drinking). I guess I don't mind the missing bits, it's just curious.

the anecdotes about McLennan nursing huge Long Island iced teas were depressing

There's a lot about him left (intentionally I think) vague. Plus revelations that, for example, Robert only met Grant's mom once before his funeral, and that Grant's mom never saw the band perform.

Robert does hint at his own excesses throughout, with the quiet admission toward the end that in the scheme of things he was just another "bad" boy, a bad influence, that Grant hung around. But at one point Robert does say something about having been sober for a week. No casual drinker would ever tout their weeklong sobriety except someone for whom that stands as an exception to the rule.

everyone from Nick Cave to Steve Kilbey to Paul Kelly (!) had heroin problems

Cave was in Berlin and London, Kilbey was in Sydney, and Kelly (in Melbourne) didn't have problems until he'd been using occasionally for two decades, at which point he gave up for good.

(By Kilbey's accounts, McLennan never had a problem either, which leaves a grand total of zero examples cited in the Australian underground, as Kilbey was a major-label charting artist. Kelly, too, for that matter.)

David Nichols (The Cannanes; author of a 90s book on the GBs) was amongst quite a few expressing frustration re Forster's vagueness on the heroine issue. eg. half of his review dealt with it:

https://www.theliftedbrow.com/liftedbrow/twin-layers-of-lightning-a-review-of-robert

Kilbey spoke at some length in last year's documentary (or more likely the extra material, come to think of it) about them both using after McLennan introduced him to opiates. I think he said that McLennan mocked him for falling more deeply into dependence, such that the friendship disintegrated.

xpost Fine. A few semi-popular Australian peers of Forster/McLennan, then.

xpost Hmm, yeah, that Nichols review gets at my objections. Re: what I said before, I was absolutely shocked when that third Tom Petty bio came out, after a 4 hour movie and another interview book, only to finally learn that not only was he into heroin, it was a serious problem for a while - in the '90s, no less. How could that have been omitted? Similar to when I saw the Paul Kelly doc and learned of his own use. As someone who more or less only knows about heroin from accounts like these, neither artist struck me as the type I associated with the drug (almost always in the Keith/Iggy, er, vein), and while I chalk that up to my own naiveté (esp. since I know regular folks who have died or gone to jail related to heroin), it was still eye-opening to learn about Forster/McLennan.

It seems reasonable that Forster chooses to focus on his artistic partner's art, vs what he might see as gossip -- especially as McLennan's main heroin period was when they were estranged? Perhaps the specific area of various health-neglects that ended his life isn't directly known, too, and thus even less relevant.



(I'm sure there was plenty of heroin use in the underground btw! - but people living 16,000 km apart are not sharing dealers, and the sheer cost of drugs in Australia, combined with the scantier opportunities to earn money as a musician, make it likely to be used less than in other continents-lumped-together-as-a-scene. if someone OCRs Blunt I'll do a ctrl+f.)

My (by no means first-hand) understanding was that heroin, particularly, was cheap and of high quality in the early to mid 1990s Australia, which coincides with the time period under discussion. It was coming in from South-East Asia, not that far away (whereas the American junk was coming from Afghanistan iirc).

I was living in inner-city Sydney in the late 80s/early 90s, in social circles that (very slightly) overlapped with those of the Go-Betweens. I can confirm that the scene was awash with drugs! Although by that time, I'd say everyone was off their faces on ecstasy rather than heroin.

McLennan did allegedly develop a taste for certain substances while hanging with The Birthday Party during either the Melbourne period (circa Send Me A Lullaby and Tuff Monks collaboration) or in shared London accommodation. They may well have shared sources at various times!

I can't comment on the relative incidence or the precise patterns of heroin usage but if you add the likes of David McComb (The Triffids) and Tim Hemensley (God, etc) -- both dead in their 30s -- the list certainly gets more depressing the longer one dwells on the matter.

It seems reasonable that Forster chooses to focus on his artistic partner's art, vs what he might see as gossip -- especially as McLennan's main heroin period was when they were estranged?

It's implied Forster's own heroin use was from back when the Go Betweens were still a going concern (the first time around). Forster is unclear about this, though, but you'd still think they were using at the same time. Maybe they were both casual users, but McLennan's got more serious? At the least, you'd think Forster would know when McLennan started, given the closeness of their relationship. I suppose one theme of Forster's narrative is that there were always things about Grant that were unknowable, but that through line could be in there as an out.

Either way, as far as focusing exclusively on art goes, Forster does not shy away from gossip, whether the romantic sort or talk of McLennan's drinking. There are bits late in the book where Forster is worried about McLennan, or worried about the state he's in (set up for his surprise death) that he always chalks up to drinking specifically, and he doesn't shy away from doing so. I have no idea when McLennan's main heroin period was, because it's not in the book at all. So clearly that was a choice on Forster's part. Perhaps the family didn't want it in there and he left it out out of respect?

I got the impression that neither was using in the 2000s and Forster had only flirted with it in the mid '80s.

Forster was in a German farmhouse drinking beer

From the book it scans that for all their close collaboration and relationship they were often in different places/countries. Anyway, I guess lots of people have pointing it out:

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/books/lunch-with-robert-forster-i-wouldnt-write-about-anyones-drug-use-but-my-own-20161108-gskq72.html

"I gave myself very few guidelines or rules when I went into writing the book, but one of them was that I was going to write about no one's drug experience but my own," he says. If not for having to deal with the hep C issue, he says, "I wouldn't have written about my own drug use in the '80s because it really didn't affect anything – there was no heroin in the recording studio, or on the road.
"For me it was an occasional thing, almost a social thing. I wasn't a sort of junkie who, as soon as I got in a city, needed a connection."
In terms of their relationship, writing about the hep C mattered because it was why he stopped drinking, and alcohol had been an important part of their lives.
"After shows, after a day of recording, I didn't go to the pub any more. I went to bed. And Grant was the one going out till 3 or 4am every night. A lot of things get said at midnight after you've had a bottle and a half of wine that don't get said over a cup of tea at 2 in the afternoon. That didn't happen any more, and that changed the dynamic. Our friendship was strong but a crucial thing was gone and I think Grant missed that."

So the takeaway there - which is only implied in the book - is that both (or at the very least Forster) were casual heroin users, but heavy drinkers. When Forster stopped drinking and McLennan didn't - later in the interview Forster admits Grant may have been an alcoholic - that affected their personal and professional relationship more than anything else, and may have amplified Grant's depression. Which is so extra tragic to me, since I find his solo records so full of life and spirit.

I don't know much about the Go-Betweens. I downloaded an album years ago and kept "Lee Remick" on my hard drive--not sure if it was a studio album or compilation. A friend gave me a mix-CD a few weeks ago (multi-artist--we still do things like burn mix-CDs) that I got around to playing today. It starts off with "Streets of Your Town"--instantly loved it, and ended up playing it three times. Even better, I was on a road trip of sorts that took me through the town I grew up in, a blueprint for every dead-end town that people leave. I was at the opposite end from where I lived, but (as the song played) I did pass by the golf course I worked at as a teenager, and the town works department where I worked through university. Gave the song some extra resonance.

Welcome!

that's what it's all about

and hey, i heard the upcoming Goon Sax album (with Forster's son) and let's just say the apple falls very close to the tree. good stuff.

'Streets of Your Town' is indeed an amazing song, and you can't really go wrong with the album its from (16 Lovers Lane) ...

I think everyone who likes this band has that one album in their discography that means slightly more to them than the others, and for me that album is Before Hollywood.

Turrican OTM? Well about "Before Hollywood" anyway. Goon Sax... the name makes it difficult.

It's hard to choose between the second and sixth albums. And Oceans Apart is their best album.

my favorite switches around a lot — I think right now I'm in a Tallulah zone.

Goon Sax is a very bad Australian pun that reads even worse overseas

Before Hollywood is my favorite as well

Goon Sax is fun!

i usually return to liberty belle, but only because all the songs on 16 lovers lane are so familiar.

I think my order would be something like this:

Liberty Belle & The Black Diamond Express
Tallulah
The Friends Of Rachel Worth
Spring Hill Fair
Oceans Apart
Before Hollywood
Bright Yellow Bright Orange
16 Lovers Lane
Send Me A Lullaby

There's not much between two and six. They're all so solid.

78-79: The Lost Album would be up there for me if that counts

still haven't seen that recent go-bs documentary ... looks like it's just AUS/NZ DVD at the moment? >:(

No Go-Betweens LP without a double l in the title counts.

gosh just IMAGINE having to order a record or DVD from overseas because that’s where the band is from

luckily nobody in Australia has ever had to do that, for anything

haha, well, the DVD won't play on my DVD player. that's what i meant, mate.

australian DVDs spin in the opposite direction than in the US iirc

Like the water going down the plughole.

take it to the gay thread, sailor

imagine being the comfortable beneficiary of such cultural exceptionalism that you bought a region-locked DVD player :)

ok

Release date here for the documentary is late November. Trailer

https://vimeo.com/251353828

(Though a second check -- this may be a UK release date only, but hopefully US too.)

There are showings of it on in Edinburgh this week: https://www.filmhousecinema.com/showing/go-betweens-right-here
If things pan out I'll be seeing it on Wednesday.

I'm really hoping crustaceanrebelisback is still around to give us a detailed analysis of the new volume of "G Stands For Go-Betweens"!

The double live LP in the 2nd box is soooooo goooooood. Really annoyed i missed the 1st box as this one is wonderful and a really high quality PHYSICAL PRODUCT.

also I got one of Grant's books included - Sackville-West's St Joan Of Arc which his inscription inside says he bought in 82 and it smells of every second hand book store in history

FYI, if you missed out on the 1st box set, they're considering a re-press, but they're trying to gauge how many people will buy before they commit:

https://www.facebook.com/gobetweens/photos/a.215887108489598/3563926360352306/

"Happy New Year everyone... good afternoon and good morning, depending on your geo-location. 😏

"We hope everyone has had a happy and safe holiday season. While we're hard at work on Volume 3 of "G Stands For Go-Betweens," we wanted revisit the possibility of a final repressing of Volume 1.

"While making no guarantees, we are entertaining the notion of doing a final re-press of the first volume. We know there's some demand out there but it would be good to get a picture of just how much. Unfortunately, these box sets are not inexpensive to make and between things like Brexit and COVID-19 getting increasingly so.

"We don't want to go down the whole road of Kickstarter/Pledge type thing, but there's a bare minimum we would need to sell to comfortably reach to make it a worthwhile endeavor. So, we're taking an informal poll here to see just how much more demand there might be. So, simply reply below if you would be 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘭𝘺 interested in a future purchase if we were to proceed"

Listening to Mirror II , Goon Sax 2021 album with Robert Forster's son Louis. It's ok

some of it is quite bad -- the singing, the chord changes

i definitely didn't like their second one as much as the first, but it has its moments. feels like they probably have a great album on the horizon? I almost respect the insanely out of tune singing on a few tracks, haha.

I think it's great...like you, I find the out of tuneness on some of the tracks endearing and an interesting contrast to the more conventional tracks on it.

If you've listened to GBV, Sebadoh, Flying Nun etc it's not hard to wrap to wrap your head around.

I do get "In the Stone" stuck in my head once a week.

i like "the chance" a lot

Don’t think I noticed this before:

https://www.facebook.com/othermusicdoc/videos/the-go-betweens-bachelor-kisses-live-at-other-music-6799/1505476926304698/

Also, where did Spring Hill Fair go in the streaming world?

xp - i saw them right around this time in NYC (not sure why i didn't go to this in-store) and it's still one of the best shows I've ever seen.

Did Robert Vickers join for a few numbers?

I saw them in NYC too but my feeling is that it was a year or so earlier.

good band imo

First time I’ve heard you say that

j/k

Vickers played with them for “head full of steam” — maybe something else? It was at the Fez, definitely summer of 99.

Sounds about right.

I seem to remember some amusing banter of Robert’s referring to “another string in his bow,” can’t remember who or what he was talking about, maybe it was “my bow.” Song selection was really good, couldn’t tell you what it was though.

That video link says something about a Mercury Lounge show.

The one I saw, was it the Fez? It was downstairs, but feels like maybe it was at Acme.

Also, where did Spring Hill Fair go in the streaming world?

It's the only Go-Betweens record on hoopla, under Rhino/Warner Brothers.

Founds some reviews but they are only of the show at The Mercury Lounge.

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/11/movies/pop-review-challenges-and-magic-in-a-reunion-of-a-duo.html

http://www.robertchristgau.com/u/cd/music/scgobet-99.php

Okay, The Fez was Saturday, June 26th, 1999. Will Rigby joined them for a few times too, it seems.

The musicians that just came to watch were all at the earlier Mercury Lounge show.

If it hasn’t been mentioned already, Tracey Thorn has a book about about her friendship with Go-Betweens drummer Lindsey Morris. Guardian review here.

^ Thanks for reminding me. Finally reserved a local library's copy!

I hope it's not hyperbole to claim there isn't another memoir like it.

You're talking about the Tracey Thorn memoir, and not the Robert Forster one again?

The Thorn memoir.

Cool. Looks good,. Thanks, everybody.

I've finally got around to reading "Grant and I", and this was just too much:

"A sideways glance at our competition, those spotted near us at the starting line sharing a broad set of influences and of similar talent and age, had Echo and the Bunnymen on Warners, The Smiths on Rough Trade, REM with IRS, and U2 on Island -- all were locked into long-term deals, guaranteeing successive recording and promotional budgets."

Now, I love me some Go-Betweens, and obviously you need a pretty big ego to believe you should be a rock star, but is he actually telling me that with a bigger promotional budget he could've been Bono? Of that list, the Bunnymen are the only ones I'd consider "of similar talent".

Great read though, and I respect the way he tells the story of Grant's unraveling without mentioning heroin.

Or (iirc) his own dabbling, for that matter!

I think it's reasonable enough of Robert to assume that with a bit more industry support, the Go-Betweens could have been much bigger than they were. It's easy enough to imagine an alternate 80s where Bye Bye Pride and Streets of Your Town were huge hits...

I was under the impression they had spotty distribution in the U.S. (Spring Hill Fair wasn't even released here even though Sire was the distributor, though to be fair it's arguably the least of their LP's.) I don't think they would've been platinum sellers, but had they gotten better and consistent promotion and distribution with one reliable major during the early-to-mid '80s, I think they could've had more substantial success, maybe even gold albums which was pretty great for an indie or "college rock" band.

Bono is more successful therefore he is more talented? I see.

Anyway, pretty sure at the time Robert Forster thought he was more talented than Bono and has mellowed with age.

I actually like U2 quite a bit, but I generally prefer the Go-Betweens - to me, they were a greater, more consistent and more interesting band.

(consistent in quality that is, not musical character, though I guess that applies as well since they haven't had a reinvention as radical as Achtung Baby)

Bono is more successful therefore he is more talented? I see.

― Renaissance of the Celtic Trumpet (Tom D.)

Well, i was trying to make the opposite point actually.

Even if you like the Go-Betweens more than U2 (i do), REM (i don't), and the Smiths (tie), it's hard to argue that they have as much star potential of any of those groups. I'd put them more in the same tier with Sloan or Teenage Fanclub -- great songwriting, but also nondescript in a way that puts a natural cap on the record sales.

Don’t think they would ever have been selling out the arenas but do think they could have had a more brilliant career with a little more assistance from the suits.

Their career thrived on failure -- that's the story. They needed cultdom to release such tense, uneven albums.

Had they been more successful, they might've sucked.

Love Robert's voice but it just isn't something you can imagine helping them get to REM level

Oh yeah, forgot about that, Alfred OTM.

I was just listening to 16LL and thinking that “quiet heart” could’ve been a “with or without you” style hit. They kind of sabotage it with the harmonica solo though (which I love, but …)

The harmonica solo is so unexpected and so right.

To be clear: the story of the Go-Betweens' failure is so woven into their mythos that to speculate on What Might Have Been seems futile to me! Forster's songs and voice were too pinched for college radio just like McLennan's were too dopey. They were always off by a couple degrees; few songs by either songwriter are unmarred by a lyric that doesn't quite work or a mixing choice that undercuts their melodies.

There’s no success like failure iirc

they also made insanely bad videos (which, also, I love but ...)

Hmm, those videos are kind of bad now that you mention it. But “Streets of Your Town” video is okay maybe.

Thread of wondering why Spring Hill Fair is gone from streaming.

I stream only Apple Music, but I've never seen SHF on there.

Spring Hill Fair is on UK Spotify, but the first two albums are not.

LOL forgot about the videos. I like the one for "Cattle and Cane." Clearly a cheap, no-budget video - IIRC it's just the three of them in a barn? - but a great understated song deserves a simple, understated video, not something that'll overwhelm or replace the music in one's mind.

Agree re: "Quiet Heart" too, and I think it may have been inspired by "With or Without You"? That whole album has a lot of songs that would've sounded nice on the radio - "Clouds" sounds like something that would've been a big hit in the early-to-mid '90s. There's an older Go-Betweens documentary (not the one from 2017, I think this one may have been done while Grant was alive) where Robert talks about how demoralizing it was when 16LL didn't change anything - i.e. we went through hell making that record, toured around the world, pretty much exhausted ourselves...and wound up back in Australia where we're supposed to do it all AGAIN. I think it sold only a couple hundred thousand copies in America even though it was distributed by Capitol, but for an acclaimed and well-established band of that time, that does kind of suck. I don't think massive success would've been great for them, but it brings to mind John Cassavetes - he started mortgaging his house when he began making his own films, and even though he made a string of masterpieces, by the end of his life he still owed just as much if not more to the bank. He didn't expect to become Spielberg or anything but it would've been nice not to have that level of financial pressure day-in and day-out.

"Clouds" sounds like something that would've been a big hit in the early-to-mid '90s

I meant on whichever stations were playing stuff like "Linger," not the ones playing grunge

wouldn't be surprised if (arrangement-wise at least) "quiet heart" was explicitly influenced by "with or without you" (though I want to say that either Forster or McLennan said it started out as a more jesus and mary chain kind of thing)

Possibly why it's one of my least favourite Go-B's songs.

noooooooo it is beautiful

Love Robert's voice but it just isn't something you can imagine helping them get to REM level
― PaulTMA, Wednesday, June 28, 2023 8:26 AM (five hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Sure. Grant's voice though?

The 'Right Here' documentary is a suitable companion to the book btw. Paints a pretty clear picture re: their (relative) successes and failures, and, more interestingly, the dynamics within the band. I loved it.

Alfred pretty otm so far. there was always something at right angles about them that precluded stardom and made them so interesting.

ultimately the other members of the band seemed to have a better assessment of their ceiling. RF/GM thought they could shake those off and have an easier life. both failed to fully understand / were too tired to continue living with the original lineup's charisma, and then on their own they learned they couldn't be pop stars.

both of them seem to have variously enjoyed their distinctiveness and railed against it: always being determined to have female members, then allegedly complaining about the girls, wearing dresses / egging each other on to do it at influential events, recording spoken word and other rambles. and that's just Grant the pop one. there's a lot of weird "I never wanted it anyway!" rationalising after the fact.

having said all that, loads of oddball bands got at least one hit in the 80s/90s: thinking of Prefab Sprout, though RF might shudder at the comparison.

those saying they're pompous to think they could be U2 are right but also time and acclaim makes us forget how skint and unpopular they really were - they seem to have had less success or promise of it at the time than say a Triffids or a Microdisney, both of whom now have less cred.

to me a bigger problem with the legacy, at least in the UK where you can't stream the first two albums, is people dismissing them essentially as a failed sophistipop band based on the later stuff.

also the videos are broadly heinous apart from Spring Rain. Head Full of Steam could surely have been an indie hit with a blander clip!

the Cattle & Cane video mentioned upthread is actually taken from the Australian TV show Countdown which explains why it makes a kind of lame sense. the little seen real one has surfaced on YouTube and is like a living version of the Before Hollywood album cover featuring them all looking pallid and Grant posing with a clock.

forgive the essays I sure love talking about the Go-Betweens

They sold a lot more records than Microdisney! I'd guess they sold more than the Triffids too, in the UK at least.

Yeah you can always look in the other direction. Sure, they were no U2 or Echo and the Bunnymen in terms of success, but they were also much more successful than Microdisney or the Apartments or Close Lobsters or whatever.

Their career thrived on failure -- that's the story. They needed cultdom to release such tense, uneven albums.

― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)

100%. As a NZer, I've always thought of them as occupying an uneasy mid-point between Crowded House and the Chills (probably the closest Flying Nun band to them) in terms of success/cult-dom. Any Aussies want to chime in on how they're currently situated? I get the feeling "Cattle and Cane" is the song everyone covers / makes the APRA lists but 16LL tracks are the ones played on the radio.

Bono praising "Cattle and Cane" in 2006 as one of the best songs of all time did a lot for it.

the story of Grant's unraveling without mentioning heroin.

left with the elephant in the room--

Oh, c'mon, all, it's clear from Forster's memoir that heroin and, later, alcoholism destroyed McLennan. The idea of a grown man over 22 drinking Long Island ice teas depresses me.

I haven't read the book, so was going by prev comment. Seems right it's clear.

From a recent interview, after a few years of seeming to skirt around it: "Forster wholeheartedly rejects rumours that he died of a heroin overdose, and not because he is trying to sanctify the guy. “It seems ludicrous to me that Grant would shoot up heroin at 4pm, just before a hundred of his friends came over,” he says. “Maybe at 11pm when the party was dying down … I think alcohol killed him. It ate away at his body.""

Might be denial but he's pretty unequivocal elsewhere that Grant "walked to" an early death (I think he says that in the documentary extras) and unsparing in ways about his previous melancholy and physical decline that are revealing / heartbreaking enough, and maybe feels that last step is too ghoulish to take.

I find it even slightly more painful tbh to think of someone finally getting the life they want and then being taken by the cumulative result of previous heavy living. Cruel.

Thanks. Yeah, the longtime affects of alcohol and speedy drugs, especially, can really keep affecting even people who have cleaned up a while back.

This theory makes sense to me. Reminds me of the sad case of Rick Danko who, after he stopped using, basically ate himself to death iirc.

It was probably a constellation of health reasons, not all alcoholics die before they're 50. His father died young too. In the book as I recall, Robert says Grant had complained of tingling in the fingers and ill health in the weeks before, and had gone to see a doctor. He probably had some cardiovascular blockage that ultimately led to the heart attack.

Forster also has chronic hepatitis thanks to his heroin experiments.

I find it even slightly more painful tbh to think of someone finally getting the life they want and then being taken by the cumulative result of previous heavy living. Cruel.

The last girlfriend of Miles Davis reported that this is how he felt in his final months.

Forster also has chronic hepatitis thanks to his heroin experiments.

So did Walter Becker, who was apparently very unwell for quite a while before he died.

I've been trying to think of a Canadian equivalent to this group. Best I can come up with is if Grapes of Wrath had banded together with their girlfriends in Lava Hay and worked overtime trying to write "literary" lyrics.
90s Canadian equivalent probably Ron Sexsmith, whose songs I haven't found that impressive. But people seemed to be blown away for awhile.

Happy birthday, Mr. Forster!

Oh wow. Happy Birthday, big yin!

I assembled a playlist a few years ago, updated.

this discussion prompted me to look at what's on us spotify and, welp, that was fairly disappointing. oddly it seems all of the pair's solo recordings are there. not complaining, but what the hell?

I've been trying to think of a Canadian equivalent to this group.

Contemporaneous Canadians? I loved the Grapes but they lacked the appealing awkwardness of Forster/McLennan. Pursuit of Happiness had the gender diversity but stylistically weren't at all similar. I dunno, I don't think I could name a reasonable equivalent for them even at the global level.

And yes, a happy birthday to RF!

also on the list of luminaries destroyed by historical excess despite getting their shit together, Rowland S Howard. His death still hurts.

Robert seems to have launched a cereal called Spring Grain and it's not a joke

https://www.facebook.com/robertforsterofficial/posts/pfbid0XR9dC1XNxupnYrji7xdBxkMsWokhJzgXAJ4JHuA1QBbCUbiwMjYTRsnffYyfJfYLl

I am going to the launch event on Thursday morning and will report back.

I began eating muesli in my late teens. I loved the milky mixture of oats and grains and sultanas – and knowing it was good for me. Through the years as muesli became more mainstream, I noticed my morning bowl was becoming more colourful and sweeter. A time came when my doctor and dieticians told me my breakfast was no longer good for my long-term health. The exotic pieces of dried fruit were pushing up my sugar levels. The nuts lurking in the dried fruit were harming my teeth. Something had to change.

I looked for a simpler, tastier, gentler product on the shelves, but I couldn’t find it. What was I looking for? I knew organic wholegrain oats were important. I knew a sprinkle of coconut would be good. Ground sunflower and linseeds were super healthy. A strategically placed sultana would be divine. I remembered Amaranth puffs, the South American superfood. And ground Brazil Nuts, rich in the health-preserving mineral Selenium – every nutritionist recommended them. I mixed these ingredients in my kitchen like an inspired scientist. Until I got what I wanted. The magic mix. Spring Grain.

Now here’s the genius part. It’s your muesli. I’m giving you the basics, a cereal that works beautifully by itself. However, if you want to augment your muesli experience you can. Add half a chopped pear one day. A handful of berries the next. The corporations aren’t sweetening your muesli – you are. Add your chosen milk. And as a final treat, perhaps a loving spoonful of natural yoghurt on top. How will it taste? Just like Spring Grain.

https://robertforsterspringgrain.tmstor.es/product/117976

delivery cost makes this a bit rich for my blood sadly

This is great. My breakfast these days is mostly steel cut oatmeal with nuts and fat-free yogurt so I would definitely get this.

Pick me up in pieces, I'm scattered and broken
Slow, slow muesli

In development: Bachelor Knishes

I got as far as "falling down like wheat" before I gave up trying to Weird Al it

dude like his breakfast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV-mi0bFpaI

Draining the Bowl for You

Was There Anything I Could Chew?

Wheats of Your Town

Head Full of Cream (of Wheat)

and their steel-cut oats, their lovely steel-cut oats
the Clarke sisters

Cattle and Grain

Sorry, doesn’t work, too close to the original

I can't wait to see if my
Amaranth's accepted

Graining The Pool For You

er, Graining The Bowl For You

Sorry, doesn’t work, too close to the original

But that makes the song all the more viable for advertising - they missed their chance to cash-in with Quaker Oats!

Joking aside, it's strange how old white guys are like the go-to face for breakfast grains now, between the Quaker dude, the late Wilford Brimley, Bob's Red Mill and now Robert.

third volume of the collected works.

https://www.dominomusic.com/news/us/go-betweens-final-boxset-g-stands-for-go-betweens-volume-3-announced

would love to hear these, but the box seems a bit pricey. "Locust Girls", bonus BYBO track, has always been a fave

I don't need the full boxset but I'd like to get my hands on the remastered albums. Apparently the new Oceans Apart is a giant improvement over the old CD

Noticed they are remixing Oceans Apart - I thought everyone just wanted it mastered to not be super-brickwalled

Would be a delight if the other reunion albums got some more DR, have my doubts tho

I think those are the only ones not streaming on spotify, I know that much.

these box sets always look beautiful but I can never bring my self to drop all that cash! curious about that early 90s grant/robert session, I don't think I'd even heard about it. the radio session from 1999 is stunning, one of my favorite go-betweens related recordings.

Another checkmark on the bucket list, to finally hear a version of Oceans Apart that isn't brickwalled to shit. Almost 20 years later but it's here now. What a joy. What a fantastic record.

A buddy wrote, once again, the accompanying essay.

Someone found the hand-written lyrics for Heaven Says inside the book they received:
https://scontent-man2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/471335143_9073856955993325_6645435866809629758_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=Vavu2pdBAr0Q7kNvgEBOciz&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1.xx&_nc_gid=AfjNL1qehFK1SyjIMfecoHD&oh=00_AYCrqevfvxvC0nAkAyQ_flRm4B2TKLuxOmjsvKLIfzb6Tw&oe=67746DB5

Actually never heard "Heaven Says" before - I really wish there was a comprehensive B-sides collection, at least some kind of affordable standalone. (I don't own any of the box sets, they all look awesome but they've been way too $$$ for my budget.)

I've been hoping they'd fix Oceans Apart, so I really hope they spin that off into its own physical release. (At least I can get a download and burn it to a CD.)

I still haven’t opened my G for Go Betweens Volume II set, which has been on my desk for at least 5 years. I promise to bequeath the lyrics to “Streets of Your Town”, should I have them, to the National Trust