Salsa Thread 2004

Remixes don't play a big role in salsa, but there have been some successful experiments in that direction. I don't need salsa to be like other types of modern dance music, but I think if they can pull off this sort of thing, it probably will extend the life of the genre, so I'm basically in favor of it; not to mention that I simply enjoy some of these remixes.

Keep hope alive!

WRTI streams live, I've just noticed, so if you ever feel like reviving this thread on a Saturday night, it would be great to be able to listen in and see your reactions/opinions/comments in semi-real-time...

Sure, I would be willing to do that, if I am at home (which I often am, unfortunately) if you are interested. I've kind of done that by e-mail with one of my friends. Actually, the next broadcast of El Viaje is an anniversary broadcast, so it may be an atypical show. He sometimes plays a lot of material I don't like, but it varies.

Question: if this were done in a chat format instead, on AIM (which I have never used before), would we be able to capture and save our precious words? It might make more sense to really do it closer to real time, except it would be fun to preserve it AND getting both my friend and I to download AIM could be a pain.

Actually, using AIM might slow the audio stream down for me friend. We had that problem when we were discussing things by e-mail.

But are you going to be around this Saturday, Paul? If you aren't here there's not much point in my doing it. I don't think this has mass appeal. (Incidentally, I forgot my password for this e-mail account. Pathetic, I know.)

But I don't use AIM either, I'd have to download/install it I guess. (I've never used anything like it.) Out of laziness I'd prefer just to keep it on an ILM thread.

Guest commentator (?) !

I am pretty definite about doing this, since I will be working Saturday, which means I most likely won't want to go out Saturday night.

The broadcast is 9pm to midnight East Coast (USA) time.

(Three hours is a long time so we could start late/end early)

Hmm. Let me see if I can get the stream from WRTI.

(Haha don't be nervous I'll ask lots of stupid questions.)

General comment: I LOVE the brass scoring. The vocals don't appeal to me as much/as instantly but not an insurmountable obstacle.

Yeah, he's starting off with somewhat older material. Mambo, guaguanco (I guess, they were singing that, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is).

yes I like the timbales!

x-post.

I would guess this is late 50's or early 60's, but that's a guess.

xpost

now this is a new track with similar instrumentation, I like it much better!

Also, I like how so much of this arrangement is syncopated, and also how there's an occasional gap in the usually thick texture and the drums drop an extra-loud "whack" in just the right spot.

Louie Ramirez. Good stuff.

x-post. Yeah, the temperature goes up and down here. I was wearing my spring jacket a couple days ago but I am back to winter coat for now.

I hate this announcer.

now we're back in faster territory

has he played anything new-ish yet?

My totally inexpert guess is that we still haven't heard anything from within the past 10 years (?)

For a very brief period I pursued a mild enthusiasm for (French Carribean) "zouk"; the vocals to the this one (9:53p) remind of that a bit (but not in French creole obviously)

Here comes the announcements I guess.

I'm impressed that you get the categories/genres so quickly even on tracks you don't know.

Not that it "all sounds the same" me -- more like, I hear as much difference within categories as between them.

x-post: I should know this stuff by now. I've been listening since 1997/8 even if I started off kind of slowly.

This song still pretty traditional.

x-post

Yeah me too I wish.

This is Hector Lavoe I think. (He did say he would be playing him). Prob. Lavoe and Willie Colon.

I don't know this song. I think I want just about everything they did together.

His voice is difficult for some people, but I've really gotten to like it.

He was bisexual too, not that that necessarily would give him an androgynous voice, but it's kind of interesting, especially considering the whole machismo culture and so forth. Of course, performers live in a differen realm.

xpost: well I like a lot of 80s pop music too, but I know some people have gripes

Another break now, that whole set was strong I think. As usual I will be completely unable to glean any useful info from the announcer.

the original lineup from the 60s is still going? Wow. And here's a jazz-flavored piano solo as predicted...

This is Victor Manuelle.

The newest most commercial (currently anyway) thing played so far. Probably from new CD.

Almost all his songs have touches I don't like, but if I am honest, I still like a lot of them.

Some of them I have a special attachment to because I heard a lot of them in the period when I was learning to dance in a more concentrated way (about two and a half years).

Anyhow, this is very typical current club salsa.

improvise lyrics?

This may not be as old as I thought at first.

gone now, the line tapping

makes you want to glide around

I think I'm missing some of the percussion details, the streaming audio is not exactly hi-fi

I think a lot of the singing is probably v. good, I have peculiar taste in singers. (For instance, despite my extensive classical music bkgd I'm not a fan of big classically trained voices)

(actually, no)

Voyage I think.

Yeah he's a bit corny. He must be imitating some sort of old school 70's salsa deejays.

This is the song I wanted Tico Tico to listen to, but this is not the Frankie Ruiz version.

I can send you a copy of Ruiz version if you want.

this is a great song, how is Ruiz's version different?

x-post: Oh, I don't know, it's just more melodic and twisty. Ruiz of course has a totally different voice.

Para ti, Frankie Ruiz! Yeah!

They call him El Canario, for his whistling.

He's Colombian. He's a real powerhouse of salsa. Very tight, very distinctive sound (though this track doesn't strike me that way).

but yeah, maybe you could just email me the Ruiz mp3 if it's not enormous, my sbc email should work even though it's not my main use-it-every-day address

x-post

I'd be happy to send mp3s, but I don't want to clog up your e-mail, so I will send one an then you can let me know if there are problems.

not sure if that makes sense, though

but yes, this a change of pace, and a good example of something a little too vocals-centered to really do it for me

xpost - I thought a Bolero was a triple-time dance? (judging by Ravel, which may be unwise)

It's just basically 3-2 or 2-3. Three beats/pause/two beats. Or vice versa. Salsa, along with some other forms, are organized around that.

Actually there are other kinds of clave.

I think that's called son clave.

Yeah, I think that matches my speculation above.

This sounds like it's turn into samba?

He doesn't generally play stuff that sounds like this.

IT sounds like Eddie Palmieri.

So I guess this is the slower-tempo set. I like this next one, back in vaguely salsa territory?

x-post - oh, cha cha cha

That gave it away somehow. And I don't think I've ever heard that song before. But that little horn part sounds like Palmieri.

This might be Palmieri too.

No La Lupe so far.

I think this is from the Palmieri CD I just bought (called Eddie Palmieri).

I think I'm following you -- La Lupe is a distinctive horn player in Palmieri's band?

x-post: no people just like to bring her up.

They are singing about "Borinquen" which is another name for Puerto Rico. An older name, in the Taino language I think.

I'm just from the Philadelphia area. No Latino background or anything. I've just absorbed some stuff.

Salvador, where are you from? I forget. I think I've seen you say before.

If I had just tuned in to this show on my own, I might have given up early because the first several tracks weren't that exciting to me, but the later stuff is fantastic

this is one of my favorites so far

x-post:

What interests you musically? I can't remember in what context on ILM I've seen your name most often.

I've been digging lots of Cuban music lately... Omara Portuondo's Buena Vista Social Club record, esp. the first track, "La Sitiera." Ditto for Ibrahim Ferrer's BVSC record.

But then again, this isn't emblematic of my general taste. I like all sorts of music, ranging from classical to electronic.

This was exactly the kind of "guided tour" I was hoping for, so MUCHOS GRACIAS.

Salvador, have you ever commented on my Oum Kalthoum thread?

Paul, is it okay if I just send off ONE mp3 (Desnudate)?

But for tonight, I shall answer one last question:

Does the program name "el viaje" (or however it's spelled) mean "the flight" or why does he keep hammering on this stupid flight metaphor?
-- Paul in Santa Cruz (pauls...), March 14th, 2004.

This one's easy, Paul. It's a drug allusion. El viaje as in the "trip". It does seem like the kind of corny babble a smacked up cocolo would hammer on endlessly. But that's because it is! Ex.: Estar en un viaje = being high, etc.

Hola.

Actually I'm going to bed in a moment. I wish you had been here during the program.

I didn't mean to be rude and ignore Salvador. I wish he had joined in sooner and commented on the music.

Anyway, I will look for the mp3 -- thanks Rockist.

And the title of the show makes a lot more sense to me now.

Que Siga La Fiesta
La Rueda*
Como Lo Hacen
Tu Con El
La Cura*
Esta Cobardia*
Desnudate Mujer*
Para Darte Fuego
Mirandote*
Puerto Rico*
Bailando*
Mi Libertad

instead I was poisoning my body with alcohol

I hate this announcer.

When I wrote this, I didn't mean David Ortiz, but instead the guy who kept coming up in the station IDs "for all your favorite classics and real jazz. . ." or whatever he said. That guy.

Some delayed responses to Paul and some clarifications:

The Willie Rosario song was "Boba."

Not that it "all sounds the same" me -- more like, I hear as much difference within categories as between them.

This is really interesting to me because it brings up the issue of what counts when people distinguish one genre from another. In a sense you are saying that you haven't figured out what differences matter and what differences don't matter in the broad genre breakdowns (for this music, obviously, not for all music). I certainly have heard people say salsa all sounds a like (including one Ecuadroan friend, but she was more of an Edith Piaff, classical music, hip-hop, indie rock, cumbia, and merengue fan, in about that order, I believe). But your comment is more unexpected.

Even using salsa in the narrow sense I am using it here, the instrumentation can, theoretically, vary a fair amount. Willie Colon's line-up with all the trombones is going to sound from, say, Tipica 73, with a modified charanga sound supplemented by electric guitar occasionally. I think the rhythmic similarity is probably the key, but then again, salsa can and does incorporate other rhythms, plena, bomba (which is actually more of a family of rhythms!), and cumbia being common examples. Often these rhythms will correspond to where the music is being made (plena and bomba in PR salsa, cumbia in Colombian salsa), but not necessarily. I think I hear cumbia in a lot of Victor Manuelle songs, although he is Puerto Rican. There are differences in how jazz-influenced the sound is, how much it emulates Cuban roots, how much the singing is influenced by American R&B forms, etc. And of course, there are always at least a handful of outstanding artists or bands who come up with a distinctive sound.

One things that usually remains the same is the structure of the songs. I'm not very good at explaining this, but again, turning to my handy Descarga glossary: "montuno (section)--the open vamp section of a song, which features the coro/pregon (call-and-response) and instrumental solos." This is one of the things that helps build tension in the song. I don't understand the mechanics of it, but you will often get two or three section of call-and-response, where somehow the tension seems to increase with each section. I actually think that this is something that has maybe become more refined since the 70s.

For the record, that Ruben Blades song was "Numero Seis," but maybe you got that much.

I don't know what the Willie Colon/Hector Lavoe song was, but I would guess it was from around 73 or 74.

Not sure if Ruiz did drugs or not. Lots of booze, lots of sex. (Pop musician in booze drugs and sex shockah!)

None of this music seems evenly remotely macho to me, same with the dancing, but maybe an insider's perspective is different.

I was thinking more of Latin American, and sepcifically Puerto Rican, culture in general, although I think there is an element of macho in salsa. The reaction to salsa romantic and the call for a reutrn to salsa dura (ahem, "HARD salsa") is framed in terms of getting away from salsa that's gotten to soft and is there for the ladies to sing along with. I have to admit though that a fair amount of salsa romantica really is just too sappy, to my ears. I think the machismo in salsa is expressed more in the percussion and instrumental parts than the singing. Maybe FW can contradict me or add something.

Anyway this is REALLY good, the brass charts are obviously worked out in great detail the way different parts lock together

I'm very happy you like(d) this. (I am listening to my newish Sonora Poncena CD as I write this.) I was thinking about what you said a while back about not especially being interested in improvisation. Obviously in a lot of this music the horns aren't doing much improvisation, so maybe that would be a plus for you. Arrangements can get pretty sophisticated. Papo Lucca, the guy who heads up Sonora Poncena, was very much in demand as an arrangers for other salsa bands for a while, until he gave it up because it took up too much of his time. I think if you stick to studio salsa recordings, even the older ones, you won't be getting an overwhelming amount of improvisation. In live performances, of course, you get more (assuming the musicians are up to it). I like both the pretty much completely pre-composed stuff and the stuff with lots of improvisation happening. I do think that the genre will lose a lot of its spark if improvisation dies out, especially vocal and percussion improvisation.

So do you like brass in general?

I don't know those people all that well.

This was Bongolandia and The New York Quartet (or something like that). Bongolandia put out an album last year that I am inteterested in getting (Roots of Acid Salsa, sort of a joke title I think).

Can you say what you like about "Desnudate Mujer"? (Maybe I can steal some ideas for how to explain what I like about it.)

From the Descarga glossart again: "clave--A five-note, bi-measure pattern which serves as the foundation for all of the rhythmic styles in salsa music. The clave consists of a 'strong' measure containing three notes (also called the tresillo), and a 'weak' measure containing two notes, resulting in patterns beginning with either measure, referred to as 'three-two' or 'two-three.' There are two types of clave patterns associated with popular (secular) music: son clave and rumba clave. Another type of clave--g/8 clave--originated in several styles of West African sacred music."

It seemed as though you liked the Eddie Palmieri songs, which is a good sign, I'd say. I feel like I've only scratched the surface. He's quite prolific, and he is known for being on the experimental end of things (but without losing sight of the dance-oriented nature of this music). He sometimes dabbles with classical touches, though possibly not in a way that you would find appealing.

If I had just tuned in to this show on my own, I might have given up early because the first several tracks weren't that exciting to me, but the later stuff is fantastic

This makes me feel good. Sometimes I feel inadequate for not clicking with the older styles. I like knowing why certain artists were historically important, but that doesn't automatically translate into my enjoying them, obviously. Even though I didn't grow up with salsa, I think there is a generational thing. (Actually, you are younger than me, I think, but at any rate, the older stuff is old for both of us.) The music prior to the time that salsa as such came along is probably just too old for me.

Are you just being nice, or you really liked the stuff played later in the show? I ask because these are pretty typical salsa recordings, so if you like this then you might find that you like a lot of other songs in the genre.

x-post: that might have been better then. (Now I'm having flash-backs of one waitress from a Jewish middle eastern restaurant I used to go to.)

And I received the mp3 just fine (I think I already said so via email?). One quick listen so far -- I really like both the song and the performer (and in my limited exposure to this music so far, I've managed to hear both another performer do this song, and another song performed by Ruiz!). I will try to say more about what I like, after I have a chance to listen some more.

Partly this is just good timing for me; I'm at a point where I'm less excited about buying yet another release in the genres/styles I tend to collect. There's a lot that appeals to me in what I heard last night, so I think it will continue to be fun for me to explore. I'll hunt for the Ruiz CD you recommended.

In some of the tunes Ortiz played last night, the brass was the element that got a lot of the catchiest hooks, and the arrangements did some really cool things like splitting up melodies so each horn played and held a different melodic note, accumulating chords as a result. I suppose, too, that writing harmonized parts for the brass forces a certain degree of structure on the music, which I tend to like.

LIke I've mentioned to you before, my "problem" with improvisation is that there's often an element of generic/prefabricated material that enters into it -- just for the sake of keeping going, if there isn't a fresh idea in the player's head, s/he's got to play something, so here goes that same lick you might hear in any performance.

I'm sure a good improviser can minimize the more generic, place-holder elements. And certainly if I liked a tune, finding out that some element of it was improvised wouldn't spoil it for me! Furthermore, I do appreciate how improv can produce kinds of complexity that would be hard to capture in a fixed composition. So what you say about improv keeping the genre vital, that makes sense.

I'd be happy to send you more mp3s, maybe one a day? Unless that's overkill.

I'd like to send you something Colombian, since he didn't play much Colombian salsa, and it tends to have its own sound.

x-post: What I don't understand is why an improviser's falling back on certainly material s/he usually uses is any more problematic than hearing something that is already composed, unless of course you hear basically the same material in every solo of every song played (or something approaching that). When I was going to see the Sun Ra Arkestra pretty regularly a couple years back, I started to hear what sort of things different players fell back on in their solos, but for me that wasn't a stumbling block. Of course, I think they tend to be pretty good improvisers.

There's Celia Cruz, who was really a refugee from an earlier era, but who nevertheless became the dominant female vocalist in salsa. There was La Lupe who is probably better known for singing in other genres. If Celia is simply known as la reina, La Lupe is referred to as the queen of Latin Soul. Either way, they both sang in a number of genres.

Sonora Poncena has a female vocalist whose name I don't know. The singer La India appeared during the 90's and has had a lot of popular success. She doesn't seem to be taken all that seriously by people whose opinions I trust, but I like some of her songs. She also doesn't seem all that committed to singing salsa (or even to her singing career--I mean, she kind of dropped out of view for a few years if I remember correctly).

I wouldn't even know who to name next. I can come up with a couple names, but they either leave me cold or they are positively awful (like Brenda K. Starr).

still catching up with older comments/questions:

re: comp vs improv, I value the same imperatives in composition, too. I like it when a composer (e.g. songwriter) brings together a few strong, original ideas in a piece (e.g. song). But a musical idea always has a lot of POTENTIAL content -- ways it could be varied, extended, "answered" by another idea -- so I also like to have a sense that a composition is exploring/working out this potential, rather than leaving it unfulfilled and resorting to more generic material.

So I like music with surprises in it, but the best kind of surprise for me is the kind where something unexpected happens to the material of the song (for instance, a colorful reharmonization of the chorus, or an extension of the bridge in order to move the song into a new key), rather than the kind where something totally new and unrelated shows up. That's the rule, for me; there are probably exceptions where I like something for a completely different set of reasons.

I'm not very good at analyzing or writing about my own musical taste, actually; my reactions to, and opinions about, music are pretty automatic and instinctive, but they don't usually come with conscious "reasons" attached.

But I think to recap my favorite songs, based on what you (Rockist) were able to ID:

Early in the show, I liked the Pachanga thing from 1962, and the mystery tune with oboe. But I didn't have much of a basis for comparison at this point, and I can't recall these tunes in any detail now.

Later in the show, these were all great:
Ruben Blades, "Numero Seis"
the Colon/Lavoie tune
Frankie Ruiz, "La Rueda"
the Sonora Poncena tune

the Eddie Palmieri tune (although I also got a little confused about what was what -- did Ortiz play more than one by Palmieri? And what was the track you thought was Cha Cha Cha? And was there a track featuring La Lupe, or were you just hoping there would be? I don't remember hearing her.)

the Joe Arroyo tune

the Boogaloo one was fun too

I would defintely be up for receiving a few more mp3s if it's not too much trouble...

I think that might have been Machito and his Afro-Cubans, but that's a guess. I'm not at all positive about it.

There was no La Lupe, that was Salvador Saca just giving her a shout-out.

He played at least two Eddie Palmieri songs. One was a cha cha cha. Another was a salsa cut from the Palmieri CD I just got (though it's an old album). There might have been a third. During the plena song, I thought I heard them call out his name and the piano sounded like it could have been him, but then I thought that might have been announced as Plena Libre, and I somehow don't see him sitting in with them. In other words: I don't know. Definitely at least two Palmieri songs though.

There are more female singers in some other loosely related genres like bachata and maybe merengue too. Also I think there are a fair number of them in folkloric Afro-Cuban rumba. Even if you go back to the 40s, 50s and early 60s, I get the sense there were more female singers in the music that led up to salsa, though I'm not totally sure.

(They also stock the Frankie Ruiz disc that Rockist recommended; I'll almost certainly get that...)

Artist: WILLIE COLON
Title: La Experiencia (2003)
Genre/Genero: Salsa
Catalog Number: FANIA-782
Label: FANIA
 
Album Content:
Amor Verdadero
Sin Poderte Hablar
Oh Que Sera
Usted Abuso
Gitana
Ah Ah O-No
No Me Digan Que Es Muy Tarde
El Gran Varon
Todo Tiene Su Final
Che Che Cole
Casanova
Pena De Amor
A Papa
Cartas Marcadas
 
Absolutely The Best Of Eddie Palmieri  
Studio: Fuel 2000 Records

Album Tracks:
Oyelo Que Te Conviene
Kincamache
Vamonos Pa'L Monte
Mi Cumbia
Sabroso Guaguanco
Un Dia Bonito
Conditions Que Existen
Bilongo
Nada De Ti
La Fruta Bomba
Un Puesto Vacante
Pa' Huele
La Malanga
Random Thoughts

Ruben Blades/Seis Del Solar - Greatest Hits
Wea International
Release Date: 10 September, 1996

Track Listings:
* Juana Mayo (A Womans Name)
* Padre Antonio y el Monaguillo Andres
* Ojos de Perro Azul
* Patria
* Sorpresas
* Marea (The Tide)
* Buscando America
* Cuentas del Alma
* Decisiones
* Muévete

And finally, this bit of brilliance from Amazon.com...

Customers interested in Willie Colon may also be interested in:

* Colon Cleansing at Home
Find out why every other American is chronically ill. Get well now!
www.gifam.org

I don't recognize everything on La Experiencia (which is not a bad sign, incidentally), but it looks very good. The descarga.com blurb says: "Another excellent compilation of the best material from Willie Colón and his orchestra. Features Héctor Lavoe, Celia Cruz, Ismael Miranda, Mon Rivera and others."

I don't really know most of the Plamieri songs there, at least not by name, but it would probably be fine.

I'm less sure about the Blades. Don't know these songs (oh, except Buscando America), but I'm not that familiar with him. I haven't been that overwhelmed with the post-70s solo material I've heard by him, including Buscando America, which nevertheless won a lot of critical acclaim (but more crossover critical acclaim, I think).

If FW could weigh in, that would be helpful.

I might need to look into colon cleansing given the way I have been eating this weekend.

Thanks Francis and Rockist for the advice. I'll pick up the Ruiz and Colon compilations for a start.

And here’s a few comments on Ruiz’s performance of "Desnudate," the mp3 that Rockist sent me. Very incomplete explanation of why I like it, but this is the best I can come up with.

A big part of the appeal, actually, is just Ruiz’s voice, a slightly androgynous tenor that blends two likeable qualities: effortlessness and energy. The energy grabs you right away when Ruiz calls out the title; his voice is as bright and punchy as the trumpets that lead off the whole tune. The effortless quality is the surprising part, considering how the melody of the verse is constantly leaping back and forth between a higher and a lower register.

It’s also a bit of a jolt for me to remember that the chorus carries a rather angry message. (I don’t understand any of the Spanish lyrics, but I’m told the words say something along these lines: "you done me wrong, stop lying to me, take off your clothes and show me the truth.") The chorus melody turns gracefully around a smaller number of pitches, finally soaring up to a high G, which is no trouble at all for Ruiz.

The brass arrangements make nice use of short exchanges between trumpets and trombones. And the construction of the whole track is very compact. The accompanying elements -- plenty of Latin percussion, a heavily syncopated bass, and those characteristic, kinetic piano arpeggios -- are always present, but the texture never breaks down to just these for very long: there’s always a definite foreground element, usually horns or vocals. (Because of this, I can imagine the song comes to an end sooner than a room full of dancers would want it too.)

Oh no, not at all! What I meant was it doesn't really grab my attention. I don't find it particularly thrilling, personally, is all.

Desnúdate mujer,
yo quiero ver también
el arte que tu tienes
cuando haces el amor
Desnúdate mujer
que estoy dispuesto a todo
estoy palidecido
y un poco asustado de ti
Me engañaste, tu cuerpo me es extraño
eres otra mujer desnuda

1.) I'd dare to say that rings true.
2.) Yet his fanbase tends to be pretty loyal, but it gravitates mostly towards Latin Jazz listeners, not a salsa audience.
3.) Hahaha. Not at all. But I'd like to think I have a pretty good idea or grasp of what the national demographics are being a keen observer of this crumbling society! *coughing fit from patting myself so hard on the back*

Rockist, glad the comments made some sense, it was hard work! (I don't think I'll attempt it again for the new tracks you sent, although of course I'll let you know my briefer reactions...)

But keep in mind that some of what you hear on CDs that you are going to find labeled "salsa" may be other things (cha cha cha, guajira, plena, bolero, etc.). This was probably more common in the 70s, though even now a lot of "salsa" CDs may also have a couple songs in other genres.

Here's descarga.com's (rockist) description:

Salsa -- great, big breathing, sweaty salsa, is alive and well and living in Guaynabo and Carolina, PR. That's at least where this powerful argument for the vitality of Puerto Rican salsa was recorded. Released on the Envidia label, known mostly for their growing catalog of Cuba's sidemen, session players, and lesser-known singers, this 20th anniversary celebration of Orquesta Puertoriqueña may, surprisingly, be the salsa release of 2004. Sporting a roster of Who's Who in salsa singers and players, these 11 individual tracks are put forth with such singular force and strength that, for 53 minutes, this listener completely forgot about the sad state of affairs salsa music has been in. Here is close to an hour of undiluted salsa at its purest.
Luisito Carrion, Pedro Brull, Osvaldo Roan, Victor Manuelle, Josue Rosado, Pupi Cantor, Henry Santiago, Miguel Mendez and Andy Montañez, all heavy hitters, each step up and do their job with a professionalism that seems close to being supernatural. The arrangements are smart, and mostly stay clear from cutesy cheap hooks. This is salsa for real salsa listeners and dancers. If your not sure were you stand, check it out. It is a near-perfect rarity.
Pick of the Month.
Very Highly Recommended.

Son de Cali: Creciendo

Fronted by ex-Grupo Niche vocalists Javier Vazquez and Willy Garcia (who wrote every track with the exception of "Vida Consentida.") every track here is a potentially lethal explosion. If this one doesn't get them dancing, they should be listening to jazz.

(From usual source.)

I think the Sunday NY Times and Watrous at Descarga both gave thumbs-up reviews to the new Victor Manuelle cd which is produced by Emilio Estefan (do I have the spelling and the first name right?)and apparently includes production touches to appeal to non-hardcore salsa types. I'm sure I've heard him sing but can't specifically place his voice. I was in a Borders store that had it on a listening station but the station was broken and they charge too much for most cds anyway.

What I've heard about the new Victor Manuelle is that he's also doing Latin pop. I'm very leery of this CD. He's a got a good voice and a good sense of rhythm, but it's usually surrounded by some pretty annoying production. I hardly ever listen to his albums Inconfundible or Instinto Y Deseo any more. I'd be more inclined to buy his last CD before this current one, Le Preguntaba A La Luna, which seemed to have at least a couple good songs on it (leading me to believe that maybe it didn't get more attention because people were burned out from his mediocre CDs). It's also a little frustrating that he's doing Latin pop, since his voice is so good for salsa. Not that I hate all Latin pop, but most of what I hear doesn't interest me a whole lot. Anyway, I don't think salsa is doing well commercially in Puerto Rico, so he has to adapt.

I bet you will recognize his voice when you hear it.

(After I move and figure out what I'm going to do about my job, I want to make salsa dancing a priority again. Of course, that could mean never.)

His new one. Pretty good. I'm not blown away so far, but I'm not sorry I bought it. It's more varied than the last the last Manuelle CD I bought (and I'm just talking about the salsa, not the additional Latin pop songs). The Latin pop is okay, so far, too. I haven't heard anything yet that sounds like a crossover hit, but I'm sure this will do well--well, it already has done well on the Latin charts. Anyway, his albums were starting to feel stuck there, for a while, and this definitely has an unstuck sort of feel. (Oh, and "Contigo" has a vaguely Arabic introduction. Maybe it's supposed to be vaguely flamenco. And the rhythm kind of feels vallenato or maybe cumbia -ish.)

"Si Me Preguntan," the last salsa track here, has possibly the most classic salsa feel of anything I've heard him record. It's almost as though it's ended to say: "Don't worry, I am not abandoning salsa," before the CD switches over to Latin pop. Even when he is sonearing (is it sonearando?), he works in some sort of trope which is familiar to me, probably something traditional, though I couldn't tell you where I've heard it, or what it is.

*

I think all of this stuff is going to sound way better in a club.

*

I'm not sure I like hearing electric organ (farfisa, or something like that) in salsa. At any rate, I don't especially like the way it gets used. Is this a trend? It apparently is on the Bio Ritmo album. It makes an unwelcome appearance at the end of Gilberto Santa Rosa's "La Agarro Bajando."

http://www.saborsalsa.com/nss-folder/newreleases/at2.jpg

Jimmy Saa: Tempestad. At its best Tempestad gets the sort of explosive power of a classic Willie Rosario recording; the comparison doesn’t end there, either. Saa’s harnessed the horn power of the best of the Puerto Rican bands, using a heavy baritone sound to build a foundation for the trombones and trumpets. Saa pushes his voice to its limits, sounding a bit like a younger Tito Rojas, and the tempos never rush, always taking their time. The tunes have an all night swing to them, with good, melodic coros; this is manna for club D.J.s; it’ll keep a club moving till the sun comes up.--Peter Watrous (www.descarga.com)

Also, I think I do want Concierto Homenaje A Frankie Ruiz: En Vivo Desde Tenerife, Islas Canarias, a multi-artists tribute to Frankie Ruiz. (Some of these songs are really great songs, and it would be interesting to hear what others do with them, although I thought Jose Alberto's take on "Desnudate" was just kind of so-so.)

As I said on another thread, I think this is already a better year for salsa releases than there has been for about three or four years.

I'm not doing too good a job of keeping this up-to-date.

Not salsa, but there are a couple new Cuban timba CDs that look intereting. One is by Azuacar Negra, and features a couple female singers. (This is sort of a big deal to me, since there's a real lack of female voices in salsa.) Also, Manolito y Sus Trabuco put out a new one, and it's supposed to be pretty no-nonsense. As I've mentioned before, I like Sixto Llorente, who sings with them, but there is almost always something about their music that I don't like.

Some other new releases:

Fruko y Sus Tesos: Soy Como Soy: Salsa y Rumba Brava. Should at least have a couple essential singles.

Kuero: Callesón. "Dimelo has always been in the business of pushing the salsa envelope, and continues to do so with Kuero, an interesting band that blends son Cubano with elements of hip hop, house rhythms and electronics. It is, for the most part, laid back, with Carlos Parra's relaxed vocals riding high over the deep rhythmic grooves. Surprisingly, it works. Kuero covers some classics by Papi Oviedo ("Vivo En El Monte"), Compay Segundo ("Chan Chan") and Orlando "Maraca" Valle ("Campiña" featuring Mellow Man Ace). This is a well-done and unusual project, and I could see it working very well in the clubs. Highly recommended. (BP, 2004-03-25)"--www.descarga.com

FANIA continues to release a nice series of best ofs by major artists, under the title La Experiencia. The new one-disc Hector Lavoe and Celia Cruz collections look particularly good.

*

To those asking for an introduction to salsa, thislooks good. I don't know everything here, and I suspect it is using "salsa" in a fairly broad sense, but it would still probably be a good starting put for the classic era of salsa. The inclusion of Puerto Rico's Sonora Ponceña alongside mostly New York based artists is a plus. Here's the track listing:

Ponle Punto - Johnny Pacheco/Pete Conde
Arrecotin Arrecotan - Ismael Rivera
Ven Para Que Gozes - Javier Vazquez
Suena El Piano - Sonora Ponceña
El Chisme - Celia Cruz/Ray Barretto
Anacaona - Cheo Feliciano
Monte Adentro - Impacto Crea
Que Problema - Joe Cuba
Prisionero - Ray Rodriguez
Guajira Para Ti - La Lupe
Periodico De Ayer - Hector Lavoe
Azucar Pa' Un Amargao - Javier Vazquez
Son Montuno - Johnny Colon
Flor De Los Lindos Campos - Ray Barretto

Also, the new Spanish Harlem Orchestra (and I ended up selling off the previous CD) features Ruben Blades, which is probably good enough reason to give them another chance.

There's gonna be a stage where musicians and dance instructors will teach people how to dance to everything from salsa to conjunto to merengue to Mexican folk.

No salsa bands or reggaeton, just the folkloric stuff. Should be fun anyway. I'm also looking forward to the haitian rara stuff.

I'm not especially interested in music just because it happens comes from Puerto Rico.

In the same article he writes of Sonora Poncena: "There is no way Sonora Poncena would ever be considered mainstream. They have always been out there on the cutting edge of jazz-infused music." I think I get his point, but there is a very obvious way in which they can be considered mainstream: they have had a reasonable amount of commercial success.

Incidentally, I don't think I said it on this thread, but my the bass solo is my favorite part of the cover of "Mack the Knife" (my least favorite track, I think) on the new album. And I'm not much of a fan of bass solos.

don't worry though man,
I'll stop bringing this stuff up,
don't want to bug you

x-post

Begs2Differ, I listened through a bunch of songs. Maybe I'll go back and check out the later songs. I don't hate it or anything, but what I heard was very removed from salsa, that's all. I thought you were just sort of messing with me.

I would never mess with you, RS, esp. given our sometimes tendentious history.

I've been missing so many good salsa events this summer, but I just have to plan to come back stronger in the fall. (Right now, I can't even dance, I think, thanks to a foot injury--but it's getting better.)

Begs2Differ, I did hear some plena (which is close enough to salsa, and some people would consider it a variety of it, though I think of it more as an ingredient of (some) salsa, as well as its own genre) in one of those tracks you mentioned.

Boricua, I misunderstood for some reason and thought you were talking about Sonora Poncena rather than Superaquello.

Before he came on a dj was playing some reggaeton. He played Ivy Queen and some others. It was a bit faster than most hiphop.

I didn't put it on this thread, but I heard a song from the new Marc Anthony salsa CD and I liked it.

Descarga.com gives the new Grupo Niche CD, Imaginación, good grades, saying: "You wouldn't usually tag the word magisterial to Grupo Niche, but hell, it's summer and we're feeling generous. So: several of the tracks on Imaginacion are simply magisterial, deep minor mode salsa that suggests centuries of European, African and Indian intermingling, centuries worth of Saturday nights and their attendant Sunday mornings. Jairo Varela's arrangements, with their slick polyphony, the songs' built in sadnesses, all ring true. Osvaldo Roman maybe one of salsa's better singers, his voice sounding Andalucian for a minute, or African; his control of time is wild, and he slows down and speeds up phrases as if he were a jazz tenor saxophonist. The coro, including Yanko and Cali Aleman, can be astonishing, with rap like cadences, and explosive, percussive bursts" As I've said before, while they don't usually put out great albums, they've released a lot of really wonderful tracks over the years, and often manage to surprise me, which I don't think is so easy to do in an old dance genre (with all the limits implied).

Of related interest, descarga.com's take on Victor Hugo's Salsa Pa' America: "Yet another rocking salsa record from the Colombian Victor Hugo; this one featuring Kike Harvey on a tune. Hugo's a super talented singer, and when he sings salsa, his voice creeps all over the place, bringing new melodies to tunes, and suggesting all sorts of different types of music. His voice is shiny, and pliable and even on a merengue his improvisations take off, spreading arabesques all over the place. Commercial salsa on a high level."

Otherwise the latest descarga.com editor's picks are dominated by DVDs, timba (and timba-related stuff), and Latin jazz.

(Why didn't she give me more watercress salad?)

They also do a cumbia and a guajira (during which they confusingly sing "cha cha cha," so maybe they have trouble telling the difference between the two just like I do).

Did you ask for more?

In the stores I checked, the new Gilberto Santa Rosa CD is selling for $17.99, which is more than I want to pay for (especially without having heard anythign from it).

Like Tito Puente, Rosario is a bandleader who plays the timbales, so I guess that tends to lead to a hard-driving band.

I have this recent album by Rosario, which is pretty good, though it's mostly, or maybe entirely, covers of old material. I like some of the material on Back to the Future, from 1999, although I still haven't heard the entire album myself. It's probably going to be a little slicker than what you have from 1979, but what I've heard from it is pretty solid.

(Apologies to descarga.com, cduniverse.com is selling those Rosario reissues for a pretty good price.)

Other (major) Puerto Rican (who have mostly remained based in PR, though obviously the bands tour, and individual musicians get around) bands to check out:

El Gran Combo. I have their 35th Anniversary: 35 Years Around The World and 20th Anniversay both 2-CD sets, but I mostly just like one CD from each set. 2001's Nuevo Milenio - El Mismo Sabor had three really good songs on it, especially the hit "Me Libere," with an old school kind of feel, but I'm not sure I could recommend buying the whole thing just for those songs. (Worth it to me, but perhaps not for you.)

Sonora Poncena. I have this compilation, which I like a lot, though the first track had dodgy sound. (The rest is good though.) I also like Back to the Road from this year a lot, but I'm not sure it would sound like it has much relation to what Rosario does.

Tommy Olivencia. I can't honestly recommend any albums, but I think I've liked everything I've heard by him.

I'm intrigued by the idea of Willie Rosario and Tommy Olivencia cut outs turning up out of the blue.

I bought these at give-away prices, so I'm guessing there's not a huge salsa market in Iowa. Although there is a snappy local latin jazz band that draws MAD crowds, so I could be wrong.

Don Perignon has a sound kind of like Rosario's based on the one and only CD I've heard by him (mentioned above).

But I'll let you breathe a bit, and will contact you later by e-mail.

Latin Grammys on tv Wednesday 9-1. Not sure if there's any salsa.

Before I moved, a Verizon representative told me that I would be unable to get dsl at this address, so I signed up for a (more expensive) cable internet connection. Not long after that, I found out from another Verizon rep. that no, in fact I can get dsl at this address.

LEILA COBO, Billboard

It is time for our annual prediction of Latin Grammy Award winners. These aren't endorsements (particularly since voting has already closed), but rather educated guesses and personal opinion.

In that spirit, enjoy the read, and place your bets in time for the Sept. 1 event.

RECORD OF THE YEAR: Should Win: "Lagrimas Negras" by Bebo Valdes and Diego "El Cigala" exemplifies what can be achieved when music is allowed to shine in a pure, unadulterated manner. A triumph in a time of skeptics.

Will Win: Alejandro Sanz's "No Es Lo Mismo" is beautifully recorded. It also enjoys prestige, name recognition and commercial success across many borders.

ALBUM OF THE YEAR: Should Win: "No Es Lo Mismo" is an album of original material on which Alejandro Sanz takes a major leap beyond what he has done before. And he lets us enjoy the ride. "Lagrimas Negras" by Bebo Valdes and Diego "El Cigala" is a strong contender.

Will Win: Sanz. No other artist in this category has the name recognition to adequately compete. "Lagrimas Negras" could be an upset winner, but I'm betting on Sanz.

SONG OF THE YEAR: Should Win: "Andar Conmigo," performed by Julieta Venegas and co-written by Venegas and Coti Sorokin, is lovely and unpretentious -- a rare combination. Cafe Tacuba's "Eres," written by Emmanuel Del Real, is an uncharacteristic, lushly romantic track and the best cut on the album. Both are personal favorites.

Will Win: Alejandro Sanz's "No Es Lo Mismo," penned by Sanz, is the only one that was widely heard. And yes, it is a great track as well. Perhaps Venegas' success in Mexico will give her a leg up.

BEST NEW ARTIST: Should Win: Akwid, for bringing the new urban/regional movement to the fore, or Obie Bermudez, for positioning himself as a strong pop artist with a songwriter's credibility.

Will Win: Even toss between the two, although Bermudez is better-known outside the United States.

BEST FEMALE POP VOCAL ALBUM: Should Win: Rosario's "De Mil Colores" and Paulina Rubio's "Pau-Latina" are energetic, sparkling and different albums that put new punch into female pop.

Will Win: Rubio is long overdue for a Grammy. But this voting body may go for the more esoteric Rosario, who may also garner the strong Spanish vote.

BEST MALE POP VOCAL ALBUM: Should Win: How do you choose among three giants -- Luis Miguel ("33"), Ricky Martin ("Almas del Silencio") and Alejandro Sanz ("No Es Lo Mismo") -- and well-regarded newcomers Obie Bermudez ("Confesiones") and David Bisbal ("Buleria")? There is plenty of commercial success here, but the best-crafted set among these is "No Es Lo Mismo."

Will Win: Sanz. Because he is an author, an interpreter and an extraordinary musician.

BEST SALSA ALBUM: Should Win: I'm not a fan of posthumous awards, but Celia Cruz's "Regalo del Alma" touched my heart like few albums have. I'm for Celia even though Victor Manuelle's "Travesia," which features an eclectic mix of styles, may be his best album yet.

Will Win: Hard to imagine that it will be anyone other than Cruz, unless voters have decided to finally move on after her death. In that case, Los Van Van may get the nod for the historic recording "Live at the Miami Arena."

BEST ALTERNATIVE MUSIC ALBUM: Should Win: "Cuatro Caminos" is undoubtedly Cafe Tacuba's best album in years. Ozomatli is a contender, but since "Coming Up" is an EP, the impact isn't the same. Honorable mention goes to Babasonico's surprising "Infame."

Will Win: Cafe Tacuba has the international scope.

BEST RANCHERO ALBUM: Should Win: This year's nominees make up a strong, competitive category. I love that Marco Antonio Solis effectively pulled off a ranchera album in his own style with "Tu Amor O Tu Desprecio," but "En Vivos Por Ultima Vez," with Vicente Fernandez and Alejandro Fernandez, features two generations of music in one exciting performance. They deserve a nod. (Vicente is also nominated for solo set "Se Me Hizo Tarde La Vida.")

Will Win: Vicente Fernandez. A contender for years, Fernandez finally won his first Latin Grammy two years ago. Now, voters everywhere recognize him as the top artist in the genre.

BEST NORTENO ALBUM: Should Win: Conjunto Primavera deserves its nomination for "Decide Tu." But Los Tigres del Norte went the extra mile with "Pacto de Sangre," an album that entertains and advocates and does it well across the board.

Will Win: Perennially popular Ramon Ayala y Sus Bravos del Norte will give them a run for their money with "Titere En Tus Manos/El Invicto," but Los Tigres del Norte, with their newfound popularity and good will in Spain, will win.

(Ignoring the non-salsa noms because I'm not familiar with those genres.)

"Regalo Del Alma," Celia Cruz; "Van Van Live at Miami Arena," Los Van Van; "Travesia," Victor Manuelle; "Tito Nieves Canta Con El Conjunto Clasico 25 Aniversario Recuerdos," Tito Nieves; "Canto A Mi Idolo ... Frankie Ruiz," Jerry Rivera.

Hmmm, no Sonora Poncena. Sometimes the Grammys define a "year" differently, so maybe it was nominated previously.

Also it's debatable whether Los Van Van should be considered salsa. They call what they are doing "songo" and I think lots of people would call it timba. As far as what it actually sounds like: at least three songs on Llego Van Van sound like salsa to me, but most things I've heard by them seem like something else. But if there's no other Latin Grammy category where they fit, then I guess it's the best place for them.

Also, the Spanish Harlem Orchestra should be in the running. Again: small (Pennsylvania, in fact) label (but with very good distribution and marketing).

(This is a late 70's recording.)

No wonder I'm bored at work, not that I'd rather be writing, but I'd rather that life were more like "Baila Que Baila."

It's also weird how they give out a few token 'international' grammys at the 'regular' Grammys and then have this all 'Latin' one...

I may be out and about tonight. I guess I should videotape the event and then just skim through it later.

Also, I think I lost track of Tito Nieves Canta Con El Conjunto Clasico 25 Aniversario Recuerdos, which I'm surprised I haven't bought yet. And I see Nieves has just put out a solo CD as well.

Oh, new Tito Nieves. This should be good too.

A relentless, expertly executed workshop in sal-sa dura dynamics by the most formidable trombone player of them all — New York’s own Jimmy Bosch. You can marvel at the sheer poetry of the piano solo that brings "El Embajador" to a screeching halt, or shake your hips to the savage trombone riffs that restore the tune’s epic dance ability. The contribution of vocalist Ray Bayona cannot be underestimated. His nasal delivery and humorous inspiraciones operate on the same privileged artistic territory that was once inhabited by Héctor Lavoé.--The New York Post Online, 9/15/2004.

I wouldn't normally go looking in the New York Post for CD reviews, but the salsa reviews I read today sound like they are coming from someone well-informed on that genre. Anwyay, I will probably get this, despite complaining about Bosch's soloing style. I want to check out this Ray Bayona (who descarga.com was also raving about).

Tito Nieves

Fabricando Fantasías (Sony Discos)

A deeply emotional production, recorded a few months after the death of Nieves’ son, Ommy. The Sergio George-produced title track is one of the most tasteful salsa tunes ever written about loss and pain — demonstrating that the genre’s lyrical possibilities are indeed limitless. Boosted by India, Nicky Jam and K-Mil, "Ya No Queda Nada" explores the aggressive tendencies of the Nuyorican tropical sound, whereas the five songs recorded in Puerto Rico bring the swing into more traditional territory (check out the conga accents on "El Capitán." This is definitely one of Nieves’ strongest efforts.--See above.

"Perdoname" (salsa romantica with a vengeance, but I think some of the melody is beautiful, and I associate it with my first salsa classes. And I like salsa romantica some of the time.)
"Que Menera de Quererte" (is this an old standard? It's been covered a lot.)
"El Apartmento" (w/ Willie Rosario)(Great for dancing. Builds in a hundred different ways.)
"La Agarro Bajando" (Ditto: great for dancing. The interplay between his soneo and the coro is just the way it should be.)
"No Quiero Na' Regala'o"
"El Son De La Madrugada" (my favorite from the new CD, but probably the two cuts after it as well)

At least two pretty good songs on his new CD. That's probably enough to get me to buy it and hear the rest.

I'm feeling very optimistic about the future of salsa tonight. There are too many people who still want it to remain alive for it to die away.

Yea, salsa's still hanging in there--not quite as dominat as it once was though.

I don't like the one Bosch CD I have that much, but I'll probably still try this.

Also, Oscar D'Leon has a new CD out. I'm not that optimistic, but it could be good. He needs a producer who doesn't clutter things up to much and try to make things to poppy, because he really isn't suited to that kind of treatment.

"Yolanda Rivera and Luigi Texidor, two classic salsa artists come to Washington, DC this weekend. On Saturday they appear at Fanaticos Nightclub at 2 S. Whiting St. in Alexandria, VA.

visit www.hijodecoqui.com to hear Yolanda's "Rumba En El Patio"
In 2004, La Sonora Ponceña celebrates fifty years in the business. Two very recognizable voices during Ponceña’s middle years belong to Yolanda Rivera and Luis Guillermo “Luigi” Texidor. Contributing to Sonora Ponceña’s huge success, the two are well known for their work within that group. Their voices can be heard on many of the albums and compact discs on a host of numbers made famous by the two.
Yolanda Rivera was born in Ponce in 1951. By the time she was 18 she was singing back up in the orchestra of Willie Rosario. She later joined Sonora Ponceña and had a major impact. Yolanda was one of the few women beside Graciela, Celia Cruz and La Lupe to penetrate the male-dominated salsa industry by the 60s.
Yolandita, as she is affectionately known, in many ways is the “Billie Holiday” of salsa. On Unchained Force her vocalization of the Johnny Ortiz composition Boringuen fills Puerto Ricans with pride.

Luigi Texidor, known as “El Negrito Del Sabor” was born in Santa Isabel, Puerto Rico and began his musical career as a percussionist. He recorded and toured with La Ponceña for 10 years leaving in 1978 to move on to the orchestra of Bobby Valentin. He sings salsa, cha cha, bolero and is also a composer.

According to an interview in December 2001, Texidor declared he was 66 and would turn 67 on January 20, 2002. This nearly 70 year-old singer has the same voice he possessed in earlier years. He is a master sonero (lyrical improviser) who takes delight in injecting humor into his verbal creations.

Luigi Texidor's Noche Como Boca ‘E Lobo and Boranda also on the Gigante Del Sur collection are classics. If you are not familiar with Mayeya, Tiene Pimienta, La Montana Del Oso, please pick up the CD titled Tiene Pimienta.Luigi Texidor appeared as vocalist with Bobby Valentin’s orchestra during a recent past World Salsa Congress in Puerto Rico.

I like her on "Ramona" and some other Sonora Ponceña songs I've heard. At first her voice seemed kind of odd, but in some ways I'm clicking her with more than I do with Celia Cruz (a lot of the time anyway).

"He was one of the sources used by the late Lise Waxer for her outstanding book The City of Musical Memory. . ." Good book, but I had not idea the author had died.

Johnny Pacheco
Entre Amigos
CD (Bronco 175), Released 2004;
Editor's Pick:
The Silver Prince of salsa is back with a fiery new release featuring much of salsa royalty: Bobby Valentin, Roberto Roena, Papo Lucca, Nelson Gonzalez, Dave Valentin, Arturo Sandoval and Ricky Gonzalez.
Did I mention the singers? Listen to this: Gilberto Santa Rosa, Cheo Feliciano, Ismael Miranda, Adalberto Santiago, Tito Rojas, Jose Alberto "El Canario," Michael Stewart, Herman Olivera and Johnny Ventura. Need I say more?
Review to follow.
Very Highly Recommmended. (BP, 2004-12-28)
Song titles include:
Coco Seco
El Exigente
Celia...Reina Soberana
La Bicicleta
Busca Tu Puesto
La Mujer De Mi Vecino
La Cirugia
Que Mareo
El Bacaliboro
La Mujer Del Paso
Yo Falle
Musicians include:
Johnny Pacheco Flauta
Musicos Invitados:Bobby Valentin Bajo
Papo Lucca Piano
Arturo Sandoval Trompeta
Roberto Roena Bongo
Dave Valentin Flauta
Nelson Gonzalez Tres
Ricky Gonzalez Piano
Cantantes Invitados: Gilberto Santa Rosa/Cheo Feliciano/Ismael Miranda/Adalberto Santiago/Tito Rojas/Jose Alberto "El Canario"/Michael Stewart/Herman Olivera/Johnny Ventura