Post Grunge Explosion Also Ran bands. Classic Or Dud/Search & destroy

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Can anyone defend the post grunge bandwagon bands?
At least veruca Salt had seether.

Lets have a full Search & Destroy of these bands.

― Hayley, Sunday, 14 March 2004 02:53 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmmmm...Well, I like Buffalo Tom. Toadies had their moments. err, Tanya Donnelly sure was a hottie during the Belly years. Do any of these count?

pre grunge still boss - TAD!! SCREAMING TREES!! << still awesome

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 14 March 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

S: Pond. just got better and better. 'Rock Collection' is a treasury of pop hooks. alas, nobody cared.

― echoinggrove (echoinggrove), Sunday, 14 March 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Anything after 1991 really. Pearl Jam, Soundgarden etc dont count as they arent post grunge. Same with Screaming Trees (all great bands though)
Foo Fighters count(but they really suck) So Destroy Foo Fighters.

― hayley, Sunday, 14 March 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Search: "F Sharp" by Nudeswirl

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:06 (twenty-two years ago)

Green Apple Quick Step. Why?

Similarly, For Love Not Lisa.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:07 (twenty-two years ago)

S: Local H (AMG calls them "The Only Nirvana Rip-off That Matters")
D: The usual suspects - Soul Asylum, Collective Soul, Silverchair, CANDLE-FUCKING-BOX

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey now...Soul Asylum pre-date the Grunge Boom.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:09 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm do The God Machine count? Oh and Helmet & Afghan Whigs.
If its not just 'grunge' bands I nominate Girls Against Boys, Sugar , Redd Kross.
I liked 1 album by Dig as well.

― Rock Bastard, Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey now...Soul Asylum pre-date the Grunge Boom.
-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), March 14th, 2004.

But was there a Suck Boom that I'm unaware of? Because they didn't miss that train.

― David Allen (David Allen), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Search: Pooh Sticks. This thread is a nice reminder to pull out Million Seller

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:14 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm do The God Machine count?

No. They were too separate and genius and wonderful.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Pooh Sticks - awesome. "Cool In A Crisis" still rulz

Destroy that horrible horrible band My Sister's Machine. Remember those grim fucks?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:19 (twenty-two years ago)

We're trudging some deep pain here.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm do The God Machine count? Oh and Helmet & Afghan Whigs. If its not just 'grunge' bands I nominate Girls Against Boys, Sugar , Redd Kross. I liked 1 album by Dig as well.

AARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

How.....*HOW*...can you cite the wonderful Redd Kross as having anything to do with fuckin' Grunge??? They WAAAAYYY predate all that stuff.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The first Redd Kross vinyl on Poshboy records came out in 1980!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:23 (twenty-two years ago)

I love the second harvey danger album and i don't care who knows it! Do they count? It's their Pinkerton.No, really. you don't believe me, i can see that look on your face. Fine, i don't care. It's great. wait, weezer count too, no? i still love Pinkerton, duh. Does Ned hate Pinkerton? probably. i can't remember. it would be soooo like him to hate Pinkerton.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy: Blind Melon. Or is that being shamefully rude?

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:28 (twenty-two years ago)

Search/Classic - Marcy Playground's first album

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:39 (twenty-two years ago)

search: sixteen deluxe, especially their excellent final album "emits showers of sparks". don't be put off by the fact they became young heart attack.

― the surface noise (electricsound), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:40 (twenty-two years ago)

Does Ned hate Pinkerton? probably. i can't remember. it would be soooo like him to hate Pinkerton.

Yes, you are correct sir!

sixteen deluxe, especially their excellent final album "emits showers of sparks"

Except they had an album after that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:45 (twenty-two years ago)

did they? what was it called?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:48 (twenty-two years ago)

i liked harvey danger. and that DIG MTV buzz-cut album has become seriously underrated (did DIG ever do ANYTHING ELSE)?

other than that ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:54 (twenty-two years ago)

did they? what was it called?

Behold.

did DIG ever do ANYTHING ELSE

Behold

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

16 candles down the drain.

― The Good Dr. Bill (Andrew Unterberger), Sunday, 14 March 2004 03:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Treepeople ran the race with style. Came from the wrong state, though.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Sunday, 14 March 2004 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Better... Than... Ezra

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 14 March 2004 04:48 (twenty-two years ago)

BTZ's beef with Billy Corgan was classic.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 14 March 2004 04:49 (twenty-two years ago)

I think when looking for something good with the word grunge, I think you should avoid anything with post. Except maybe local H.

― Cacaman Flores, Sunday, 14 March 2004 08:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Veruca Salt From AMG:
"it didn't ensure them indie rock credibility; in fact, they became one of the most harshly criticized bands of the post-Nirvana alternative rock era. "

Is that true? I seem to remember Melody Maker & NME loving them.

― Paulo, Sunday, 14 March 2004 14:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I was in their hometown of Chicago when "American Thighs" was coming out. "Harshly criticized" is putting it mildly. Same with Urge Overkill, though you could argue they deserved it more.

― m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Sunday, 14 March 2004 15:19 (twenty-two years ago)

pooh sticks completely pre-date grunge, and have nothing remotely to do with it. but they'd be a band worth searching if this were a "post bubblegum bands s/d" thread." 1991 was the year their *last* great album came out.

the posies, on the other hand, are worth searching for their don fleming-produced "frosting on the beater" album. they weren't exactly a grunge band either, but the wall-of-distorted-gtrs sound was clearly an attempt to jump on the grunge ship, and the first half of the album anyway is some pretty great pop.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 14 March 2004 16:21 (twenty-two years ago)

alex OTM about nudeswirl.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Sunday, 14 March 2004 16:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Phaseshifter by Redd Kross was pretty grungey to my ears. And no grunger should be without it.

― Rock Bastard, Sunday, 14 March 2004 17:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Why were Veruca Salt so hated by American indie critics?

― Rock Bastard, Sunday, 14 March 2004 17:27 (twenty-two years ago)

I loved "volcano girls" and the other single off that album. If i see that record for a dollar i will buy it. i always kinda wanted to hear that albini e.p. too. i would buy that too if i saw it around.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 17:34 (twenty-two years ago)

"Volcano Girls" was dandy. Second/third/fourth whatever Local H. They've got a new album coming out named after P.J. Soles!

Urge Overkill and Weezer are gods among men.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 14 March 2004 17:40 (twenty-two years ago)

"'hmmm do The God Machine count?'
No. They were too separate and genius and wonderful.

-- Ned Raggett"

Exactly.

Do Mogwai count? 'Cause I have to tell you, Like Herod owns anything any grunge band ever produced.

― Stupid (Stupid), Sunday, 14 March 2004 18:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and apparently Tool and Deftones are also post-grunge bands, and they both rule.

― Stupid (Stupid), Sunday, 14 March 2004 18:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Tool predated and pursued its own muse without reference to grunge -- they and Fuckups Against the Machine were lumped in with it all due to timing.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 18:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Well Phaseshifter by Redd Kross was pretty grungey to my ears. And no grunger should be without it.

If anything, "Grunge" sounds like Redd Kross, not the other way around.

http://www.rockometer.com/photos/reddkross.gif

Redd Kross in 1987!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 19:22 (twenty-two years ago)

wow, some other ilxers like Local H? I was expecting to get slammed on that one... Perhaps I should mention my abiding love for Pearl Jam to make up for it.

― dieblucasdie (dieblucasdie), Sunday, 14 March 2004 19:47 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah that will make some of us back away slowly. smiling, but still backing away.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 14 March 2004 19:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy Kiddie Lite Grunge such as Bush, Foo Fighters, Moist.
Exterminate Old Fart Grunge Revival bands such as Creed...

― Rodney X, Sunday, 14 March 2004 20:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Ruth Ruth could be really great (especially on their first album,
and specifically especially in the song "Uninvited").
Many people up above are right about Local H and *Pinkerton.*
"Gel" by Collective Soul was one of the great '90s rock singles.
"Far Behind" by Candlebox was surprisingly good, too, especially the
ending part where the singer turned into Axl Rose.
Also very good in a Pyschedelic Furs way almost was "Molly" by Sponge
(how come nobody remembers THEM? They had okay album tracks, too!)
Also, I kind of liked that Silverchair song about a bathroom where
there is no sink and the water from the tap is very very hard
to drink, so where the hell is the tap, in the bathtub?? Weird!!!

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:04 (twenty-two years ago)

well the water from the tap is certainly very hard to drink if there is no tap!

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:06 (twenty-two years ago)

http://www.magnetmagazine.com/photos/mudhoneybed.jpg

^ rules

― LITTLE LAMB [Jon Williams] (ex machina), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:13 (twenty-two years ago)

"Uninvited" by Ruth Ruth is GREAT!

I wouldn't call Mudhoney "post-grunge", being that they're the definite article to the bone.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh come on. Mudhoney was the band I drove to Ann Arbor to see in 1989 and couldn't wait for the show to end, cause I was thinking "why the hell has EVERY SEATTLE BAND FOR THE PAST FOUR YEARS SOUNDED EXACTLY THE SAME?" A slight exagerration maybe (not that I thought so at the time, and okay maybe my belief in 1989 that Northwest bigfoot sludge is dead and over was a little premature too, how the hell was I to know that some halfway okay stupid Squirel Bait/Die Kreuzen/Husker Du/Scratch Acid/Dinosaur Jr/Flipper/Die Kreuzen/Soul Asylum ripoff band would take the world by storm by stealing guitar riffs from "More than a Feeling" a couple years later??) But either way, point is, Mudhoney were THIRD GENERATION SEATTLE GRUNGE AT BEST. Even ask Malfunkshun or the U-Men or Skin Yard and all those other C/Z Records bands from 1985!!! Who may or may not have sucked, I forget.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:34 (twenty-two years ago)

I also vividly remember the day I got the first Pearl Jam CD in the mail and thought, wow, another Green River spinoff, those guys were OK on that first EP and with that Dead Boys cover a few years ago where they pretended to be produced by Joe Perry but who the hell would give a fuck about these hasbeens NOW? I'm not making this up.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:39 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy too: Korn (ever listened to their debut? 80% grunge, 20% Faith No More)

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Die Kreuzen got mentioned! I love them so!

― LITTLE LAMB [Jon Williams] (ex machina), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

how the hell was I to know that some halfway okay stupid Squirel Bait/Die Kreuzen/Husker Du/Scratch Acid/Dinosaur Jr/Flipper/Die Kreuzen/Soul Asylum ripoff band would take the world by storm by stealing guitar riffs from "More than a Feeling" a couple years later??

Wow, I thought I had idee fixes. (That said, Chuck's talk on Nirvana in Accidental History is some great stuff.) The great alternate history of our time: Andrew Wood never dies, Mother Love Bone continues to one extent or another and Eddie Vedder + Pearl Jam music never becomes famous. Result?

ever listened to their debut?

Yes, unfortunately. That was a mistake.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, you are filled with so much hate.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

Mark Arm admitted in Spin once how much "Sun God" by Squirrel Bait influenced grunge/his band/the whole thing. And he was right, cuz the whole shebang can be found in that song. All i remember Alice In Chains talking about in Spin is how they were big Ratt fans.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:53 (twenty-two years ago)

oh come on, ratt were great

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:54 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't say they weren't. just saying that they were alice in chains' big influence. or i may be remembering it wrong. i think they said that.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

But, you know, i don't know if i would call Ratt GREAT. They had some fine moments. Or entertaining moments anyway.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Then you can be C***k K********n and claim that they brought hope and joy to millions without whom life would have been nothing. But he might be wrong.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

well i didn't say they were outstanding or anything! hell of a singles band though.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 March 2004 22:58 (twenty-two years ago)

This is where I have a question, though -- the only single I *ever* heard from them growing up was "Round and Round." So what were these other smash singles of theirs? Or did they have any at all beyond that, really?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:00 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't even remember. I have their 2nd album or 3rd album or maybe both though, and they aren't bad. They liked rock and roll. so, that was a plus. They would have been a pretty decent glam band in the 70's. I think Van Halen probably brought more joy to millions though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:02 (twenty-two years ago)

I'd still rather listen to Judas Priest though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:04 (twenty-two years ago)

I wish i still had a copy of Point Of Entry by Judas Priest. That album bewildered me so much as a lad.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

i'll stop there with the Priest talk though. I don't wanna derail things. I like the Local H album that i own!

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:05 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, and i enjoyed that neil young/pearl jam grunge album.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:06 (twenty-two years ago)

>>All i remember Alice In Chains talking about in Spin is how they were big Ratt fans.<<

So how come the lifeless shmucks in Alice in Drains never did a song one zillionth as catchy or rocking or energetic as "You're in Love" or Ratt's excellent 1983 indie EP version of "Walkin' the Dog" (much LESS "Round and Round")??? Which should partly answer Ned's question.

― Chuck "I'm in Love with the World" Eddy, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:07 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually like "Not For You" by Pearl Jam, btw! They did it on Saturday Night Live once; real good version. It's their only rocking song ever, probably, mainly because they steal a Stones riff in it! I actually own a 7-inch vinyl jukebox 45 of it; same with "Smells Like Teen Spirit" AND "Gel" by Collective Soul. Cool, huh?

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Which should partly answer Ned's question.

Partly, indeed. Context -- Ratt were 'big' in the sense that I knew about them when "Round and Round" hit in 1984 and they appeared on the Top 40 station I listened to in upstate New York, which was as good an indicator as anything. But hell, I even remember more songs from Quiet Riot at that time from the same source.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't know why. They should have cuz when you sing happy songs you feel happier. I liked that one song they did about a rooster though. And one of those unplugged alt-sludge ones.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:13 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a 45 of "pepper" by the butthole surfers. it sounds really cool and loud.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

They should have cuz when you sing happy songs you feel happier.

But I can't sing! I can grunt a bit.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

i really like collective soul. maybe i should be saying this on the guilty pleasure thread. i love that DIY/Arena Rock sound they get a la Boston.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

So what were these other smash singles of theirs? Or did they have any at all beyond that, really?

I dunno if "Lay It Down" was a "smash single," but it did get a very entertaining video.

― stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Yeah, I remember A in C did some unplugged song once where they ripped off some mediocre late Alice (!!) Cooper melody and I didn't completely hate it. At least it was better than Temple of the Dog.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus, Collective Soul's first and biggest hit was basically that old church song "This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine." They were totally hippie jesus freaks going up to the spirit in the sky!

But you know who the BEST bubblegrunge band were? Days of the New!!! Their second album, after the main guy fired everybody else in the band, is a stone cold world-rhythm-disco hard sludge classic, no shit.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

The only temple of the dog song i remember was a cover of a song by that annoying alt-folkie woman who sounded like Shelly Duvall. It wasn't that good.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Also very underrated: Stabbing Westward. I'm am not kidding here.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:19 (twenty-two years ago)

that days of the new album is awesome. i even like the post-shine collective soul stuff i have heard. Some of it sounds like thin lizzy. if i see those records for a dollar i'm gonna scoop them up.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:20 (twenty-two years ago)

why did stabbing westward's publicist get mad at me again? he wrote a letter to complain about something. Cuz i called them nu-metal or something? i guess i was supposed to call them post-trent dystopian industro-rock or something.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:23 (twenty-two years ago)

i don't think i actually called them nu-metal, just included them with a bunch of nu-metaller bands. There is the hard nut to crack: name a nu-metal band worth listening to. although there are probably multiple threads on it. nevermind, i don't want to look.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:25 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy: Seven Mary Three, Sponge

― Sym (shmuel), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:28 (twenty-two years ago)

>>name a nu-metal band worth listening to.<<

Static X!! And do those first two Crazytown singles count??

Seven Mary Three seemed so totally leaden (at least in their hit -- heaviest bubblegrunge hit ever, maybe??) that sometimes I wonder if I could appreciate them now in a stoner rock sense. I doubt it, though.

― chuck, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck do you know if Veruca Salt were really hated by the critics? And why?
I know Albini turned against Urge Overkill (who made their finest record on Geffen with 'Saturation' Would anyone agree?) and everyone followed suit.

I had forgotten how good that Posies "Frosting On the Beater" album was.

― Rock bastard, Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:45 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy too: Korn (ever listened to their debut? 80% grunge, 20% Faith No More)
Hypothetical situation: What if Korn had been 80% Faith No More and 20% Grunge?

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:47 (twenty-two years ago)

It's their only rocking song ever, probably, mainly...

Please don't interpret this as a defense of Pearl Jam, but WRONG!

Plus, Collective Soul's first and biggest hit was basically that old church song "This little light of mine I'm gonna let it shine."

Uh, no. Have you ever heard "this Little Light of Mine" (recently covered by Firewater, btw). It sounds nothing like "Shine". They're both a fuckin' TRIAL to listen to (even F'water's version, honestly), but they're nothing alike otherwise.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:54 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean, they may be themactically linked, but they don't SOUND alike.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:56 (twenty-two years ago)

do the evolution was pretty rocking. i liked the video.

― scott seward (scott seward), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:57 (twenty-two years ago)

Also very underrated: Stabbing Westward. I'm am not kidding here.

I can't say I really remember what they sound like, but as I recall, Stabbing Westward attempted to align themselves more with the faux-industrial scene ala NIN than with the grunge corps.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Other "rocking" PJ tunes...

"Spin the Black Circle"
"Animal"
"State of Love & Trust"
"Deep"

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Far? I like Far.

― Stupid (Stupid), Sunday, 14 March 2004 23:59 (twenty-two years ago)

The first half of Frosting on the Beater is great, the second sludgy half is pretty boring.

― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:00 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Chuck do you know if Veruca Salt were really hated by the critics? And why?
I know Albini turned against Urge Overkill (who made their finest record on Geffen with 'Saturation' Would anyone agree?) and everyone followed suit.<<

WHICH "critics"? And which "everyone"? Some critics loved Veruca Salt; the ones that didn't, uh, maybe just didn't think they were any GOOD? Just a wild guess. I don't remember anybody hating them, though. I thought they were ok, I suppose. I think "Seether" finished pretty high in Pazz and Jop the year it came out. As for Albini/Urge, I have no idea what you mean. He produced their very first EP *Strange, I...* (1985 or so?), if I remember right. (I was one of the only critics on earth who heard it at the time, and I reviewed it in a very stupid way in the Voice, owing largley to a collaborative Albini/Katrud {or whatever his name was} project called Run Nigger Run, I believe. You can look it up if you want.) Urge's only real big critics record was *Saturation,* which yeah, lots of people (maybe even me) seem to agree was the best thing they ever did. So I don't know when this "turning against them" is supposed to have happened...

Stabbing Westward were really more a rock band (with some decent Led Zep steals!) than an industrial band, no matter who they tried to align themselves with (for logistical reasons etc) at the time.

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 00:06 (twenty-two years ago)

>>Have you ever heard "this Little Light of Mine" <<

Heard it?? I used to sing it in church!!! (And just 'cause Collective Soul's version doesn't "sound" like it per se doesn't mean it's not basically the same song, which is what I said up above. I guarantee those sons of preachers men sang it in church growing up, too.)

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 00:10 (twenty-two years ago)

I wasn't aware of anyone hating Veruca Salt as the Melody Maker and NME loved them and gave them covers. But I read their bio on allmusic and it said they were one of the most maligned acts of the time.

When Urge Overkill moved to a major label steve albini stopped talking to Nash kato(who was his old room mate) . Perhaps Ned will know more on this.

― Rock bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 00:11 (twenty-two years ago)

god, i forgot all about that guitar comp with the run nigger run thing on it. it was pretty bad if memory serves me (which it doesn't). wish i still had a copy of that texas trip comp. (which doesn't have albini on it, but i thought of it for some reason anyway)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:13 (twenty-two years ago)

ALice In Chains Dirt record is great, even if I don't care too much for their other stuff.

But I still have my pic sleeve 45 of Ratt's "Way Cool Jr." (only good song from that album tho) so I probably would think that.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:17 (twenty-two years ago)

i think by even their own admission, Alice in Chains owed zero to the "grunge" community of Seattle. They were a metal band through and through.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

The first half of Frosting on the Beater is great, the second sludgy half is pretty boring.

well, yeah, that's completely OTM. but i'll happily take an album with five or six songs i love, even if i can't stand the other half of it.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Perhaps Ned will know more on this.

Nah, I was never that much of a UO follower, and the only album I still have of theirs -- which I haven't listened to in a dog's age -- is Supersonic Storybook, an Albini job.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I don't care what Alice in Chains WANTED to sound like, or what lies they told gullible interviewers. They sure sound more grunge than, say, Queensryche (Seattle's biggest metal act since, what, Heart? The Jimi Hendrix Experience?) ever did. (And grunge WAS metal, anyway! Soundgarden were more or less a failed attempt at Sabbath music with Led Zep vocals, right? Or maybe the other way around, I forget now.)

>I read their bio on allmusic and it said they were one of the most maligned acts of the time.<<

Veruca Salt??? Yeah, right! Tell that to Uriah Heep or Celine Dion!!

---
Stone Temple Pilots, who have barely been mentioned on this thread, made quite a few excellent singles, somebody ought to point out. (And quite a few more "rocking" ones than those old ladies in Pearl Jam.)

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 00:26 (twenty-two years ago)

And grunge WAS metal, anyway! Soundgarden were more or less a failed attempt at Sabbath music with Led Zep vocals, right? Or maybe the other way around, I forget now.

I don't know, but I know that's the reason *I* started listening to the stuff in '88 or '89. Soundgarden around the time of Ultramega OK were one of my favorite bands because they sounded so much like Zep. Same thing with Nirvana; I just liked Bleach because I thought the riffs were good. I was still buying Motley Crue and Slayer albums too, though. I didn't get heavily into Uriah Heep until 1990 though.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:35 (twenty-two years ago)

i like some stone temple pilots singles, but only the stuff they made after they gave up on the whole grunge thing. "big bang baby," for example.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:36 (twenty-two years ago)

search: growing up skipper, new york band who had at least one amazing 7-inch, though the title is completely slipping my mind at the momehnt.

destroy: rem, "monster"

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:37 (twenty-two years ago)

was big bang baby the song that was like Jumpin' Jack Flash as done by Redd Kross? I thought that was a terrific single.
Sex Type Thing was catchy too.

― Rock Bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

and what about bands like madder rose and monsterland? they should count, right? madder rose had a couple good singles and some fairly boring albums. monsterland was poppier but i remember them being kinda boring, too.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:38 (twenty-two years ago)

rock bastard, that sounds like you're probably remembering big bang baby correctly, more or less.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

Weren't they both on Seed? That weird Atlantic sublabel that thought it was grunge?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:41 (twenty-two years ago)

i didn't mention STP b/c the thread's title specified "post-grunge explosion also-rans." STP were neither post-grunge nor also-rans. then the thread mutated into discussions about pearl jam & soundgarden, who also don't fit the parameters.

anyway, it is interesting how STP's rep is getting rehabilitated these days innit?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:43 (twenty-two years ago)

ned: indeed they were.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

Nostalgia wave, Eisbar. The grunge generation is settling down and needs to remember what it was like when it was 1994 and they first got high.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:44 (twenty-two years ago)

STP don't make me cringe as much as pearl jam, and i did like some of their singles (then and now). and i wouldn't toss out their greatest hits if it somehow appeared in my cd collection.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:46 (twenty-two years ago)

and monsterland?

That was my friend Greg's band! He's a cool guy. He used to have a band with Tom Monahan(sic?) who plays with pernice brothers called Closetfull Of Fear! They were industrial and noisy with a drum machine. Tom's a cool guy too. All the girls were in love with him. My friend Jim was in St.Johnny! Another post-grunge also-ran who some people liked.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:49 (twenty-two years ago)

St. Johnny were definitely better than Cell. Who in god's name thought THAT band was a good idea? Except their addled A&R guy, one T. Moore.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:51 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, they were SY's roadies, no? they stunk.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:54 (twenty-two years ago)

Badly. I just remember all the hype about Moore becoming an official A&R guy for Geffen post-Nevermind probably because Geffen looked up from his mounds of coke and remembered blearily that SY had the one person wearing a Nirvana T-shirt in the "Dirty Boots" video. So the first band he signs is Cell and fuckity fuck.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(Allegedly Trumans Water were going to be signed by him as well, which would have been a vast improvement.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

speaking of which ... surgery fit somewhere into that particular subset of post-grunge also-rans, too, no?

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:57 (twenty-two years ago)

They were AmRep initially, so I suppose, if you squint. Hazelmeyer probably liked his label being associated with grunge *real* well, I'm sure.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

and to answer my own question from up above, the growing up skipper 7-inch i really liked was "abby."

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:58 (twenty-two years ago)

Greg of Monsterland is now (or was not that long ago) the driving force behind The Hat City Intuitive. They make free-skronk noise.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 00:59 (twenty-two years ago)

wow. that's most definitely not what greg and monsterland were making back in the day.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:01 (twenty-two years ago)

I was about to say. I remember they did a fun if not surprising cover of "Totally Wired" and that's about it.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Madder Rose, Monsterland, Truman's Water, The Swirlies, The Lilies, Archers Of Loaf and a zillion others of their ilk used to play on sunday nites at T.K.'s Sports Bar in Danbury, CT. This is around when i moved back to CT for a couple years and all us Bunnybrains freaks would hang out there with the sports dudes watching the games. I never probably would have heard any of them otherwise.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:04 (twenty-two years ago)

The Lilies

Which phase? MBV, Dinosaur Jr., Britpop, post-Richard Ashcroft, Krautrock...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:06 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, this was like 92/93. they were still gazing at their sneakers.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:07 (twenty-two years ago)

Bless their sweet widdle hearts. The only time I saw them was in 2002 at Terrastock V -- Elvis T., Mike Daddino and myself had various scabrous things to say about them afterwards.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:08 (twenty-two years ago)

Goddamn I have a bunch of reactions from all over this thread. Why did it blow up during my three hour break. All of these are x-posts but '90s rock is a big, important subject for me (like my adolescence, it makes no sense whatsoever in hindsight).

Anyhow: yeah, "No Excuses," the acoustic conga song, was Alice In Chains only good hit. "Why, Pt. 2" by Collective Soul from their post-haircut album was surprisingly awesome - I fuckin' DESPISED "Shine," always will. I never heard "Gel" until after seeing it hailed in Accidental Evolution, and it didn't impress me. You hyped it too much, Chuck.

I have to assume Chuck likes Stabbing Westward because they're NIN without the stuff that really pisses him off, just like STP are to Pearl Jam. Personally, both groups still have too much NIN and Pearl Jam in them (except for "Big Bang Baby," which is astoundingly awesome). And Mudhoney's March To Fuzz is GOLDEN.

The only good Crazy Town song was not remotely nu-metal. It was just a rap song.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Surgery were pretty great. Probably the most conventionally rocking of those AmRep bands - they used bends! - but I think of them as pretty contemporaneous. As opposed to "post". I guess they did get a major label record out of the deal though, didn't they? I haven't listened to them in years. They were a good live group.

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

It's funny, i never really knew the Lilies dude, but a while after i moved back to Philly so did he. And he started playing with all these philly dudes i was friends with. Aspera Ad Astra guys and my pal don from Ink & Dagger. I never really listened to the Lilies.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

(xpost x4)

the first time i saw both madder rose and monsterland was on a new music seminar bill at wetlands, and a certain couple named kurt and courtney were in the house, which i guess has helped implant their grunginess on my brain. though k and c were presumably there to see the headliners, the 100 percent grunge-free television pesonalities.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Who were also on Seed = DO YOU SEE etc. (Not that there are ever any label showcases at such events, what a thought!)

So Scott, you had to have known the Lenola folks at least.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

I like both Crazytown albums, Anthony. Howz that for guilty pleasures.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Name some names, ned. all those guys would move around from band to band forever. They all eventually ended up playing in every like-minded band. Philly has always been like that. Was Quentin Stolfus(sic?) in Lenola? He's a cool dude. Don's a cool cat from Lilies/Ink&Dagger. He's out in L.A. trying to make it big or something. I don't really talk to those people though. I'm outtathere.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:14 (twenty-two years ago)

ew, Scott even that "Drowning" song? Shifty is a great rapper (his Oakenfold collabo is awesome), but that band is sludge suckage to the utmost. They need to keep their shit LIGHT.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Sugar Ray were labelled grunge at the time. I remember their song 'mean machine'. My god they changed.

Anyone like Helmet? Meantime was a big album from my youth.
Do Brainiac count? Whats the best place to start with for them?

― Rock Bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 01:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Whatever happened to Monkey 101?

― Broheems (diamond), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

I didn't think they were sludgey at all, anthony! They were bubble-gummy good to me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Sugar Ray, unlike Crazytown, realized what a shitty hard rock band they were (until "Falls Apart," when they learned to turn make rock pop). God bless 'em.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that one, Scott (btw, check your e-mail in 10 minutes...I got your tape yesterday! Thanks!)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:18 (twenty-two years ago)

Quentin was in the Asuza Plane and other delights, bless him.

Lenola people: Jay Laughlin, David Grubb, Sean Byrne, Scott Colan

Helmet -- I still ponder at them. Only one good song for my money ("Unsung," obv.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:19 (twenty-two years ago)

I never got Helmet period.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:21 (twenty-two years ago)

Quentin is someone that everyone else in bands really looked up to, i think. They really admired his song-writing abilities. He's also a really good mover and is really strong for his size.(Mambo Movers in Philly-THE elite underground rockers part-time gig of choice.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I love Meantime. I never really listened to any other Helmet except the first album which i didn't like as much.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Now answer my Lenola response. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I was really more down with the Siltbreeze Kru in Philly, but i liked those noise-poppy dudes. I haven't heard any of their music in a while though.

Those Lenola names don't ring a bell, but i probably knew them from around. Philly is a pretty small town.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 01:26 (twenty-two years ago)

Destroy Lit, Verve Pipe and Goo Goo Dolls. And also that big Catherine Wheel album that sucked (not the early ones).

― Rock Bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 03:55 (twenty-two years ago)

that's true! Catherine Wheel's big rock move. With Tanya Donnelly no less. It wasn't no Chrome that's for sure. They made up for it with the one after that though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 03:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Very, very true.

Hey Scott, are you on AIM or not?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Seed was a great label! i've got a promo comp they put out and it's gold! the closest the Pastels ever came to being on a major label! Monsterland were great but in all honesty i respect Thom Monahan more as a studio man than a songwriter.

Lilys? post grunge? are you nuts?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

AIM? Not usually. I could be. Hold on.

Okay, now i'm on. Username:Skotrok

(Why, did you want to say something mean about Anthony?)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:08 (twenty-two years ago)

no, i didn't say the lilies were post-grunge. i said they used to play at T.K.'s All-American Sports Bar in Danbury, CT on Sunday nites in 1992/3.(half price pitchers from 7 to 10)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Sez I can't add yer name to my buddy list, Scott. Unfun. (I'm just NedRaggett )

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:10 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people don't get Helmet? :(

Strap it On and Meantime are effing great. Plus Helmet doesn't really belong in this thread.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:11 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm, maybe i'm taboo. I'll try yer thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:12 (twenty-two years ago)

actually maybe we're talking about different bands anyway, i'm talking about lilys, who are probably entirely different to the lilies

― the surface noise (electricsound), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Bah! I got your reply, then the chat window froze. (Sorry for the sidetrack here.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmm, maybe i don't know how to spell. that's another possibility.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:15 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I'll see what can be figured out here (probably not much).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:17 (twenty-two years ago)

All right, Scott, we're all saying hi to you in the chat. We know you're there! ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:20 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually came to like one song off the Lilys' (it's not Lilies, acc. to the AMG -- or am I royally mixing things up?) last album, but MAN, that Terrastock performance was like being mocked by junkies.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:22 (twenty-two years ago)

Haha! So true.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Anyway, Scott, got your message after the restart -- here's a question -- are you running an older version of AIM software, or are you on an older computer?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:26 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, my computer is old. and my AIM is old. and i'm old.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:27 (twenty-two years ago)

Hm. Well, you could try updating the AIM software, but no guarantees. Pity! We were cheered to see you there.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:28 (twenty-two years ago)

I hardly ever go on AIM anymore cuz it's always just ny brother and he never has anything to say.(shit, he won't read this thread i hope)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:29 (twenty-two years ago)

Plus i had a girlfriend that i lived with who became addicted to it and who fell in love with a vampire from Canada named Raven and the AIM noises give me flashbacks.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:30 (twenty-two years ago)

This would be a problem, I agree.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:31 (twenty-two years ago)

tell Stence to try again, i'll turn off my netscape. maybe that will do it. i have to hit the hay soon anyway.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:31 (twenty-two years ago)

"...fell in love with a vampire from Canada named Raven and the AIM noises give me flashbacks."

Christ. I feel for ya bro, I really do.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:33 (twenty-two years ago)

Well, I guess it's not working for ya. Another time!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:38 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, oops! tell everyone to have a lovely evening. i'll try new software sometime.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:40 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, but the vampire thing turned out to be a stroke of good luck. cuz i dumped her and then immediately began corresponding with the girl of my dreams who i ended up marrying. See how things work out sometimes! At the time it was miserable though.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:43 (twenty-two years ago)

All this nostalgia has reminded me that i actually knew a Collective Soul groupie!! She actually started out as a Nelson groupie, worked her way up to Collective Soul groupie, and then spent one glorious year as Al Jourgenson's tour-mamma! I wanted to write a book about her at one point. She was a stripper who enjoyed renaissance fairs.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 04:46 (twenty-two years ago)

No mention of Live yet? "Lakini's Juice" was good, and I had a strange fascination with "Freaks," but everything else they did was crap.

― miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Monday, 15 March 2004 07:35 (twenty-two years ago)

Some people don't get Helmet? :(
Strap it On and Meantime are effing great. Plus Helmet doesn't really belong in this thread.

-- latebloomer (posercore24...), March 15th, 2004. (later)

So true.

Helmet weree indeed swept up in the big label sweepstakes following Nirvana's rise (as were their New Yorker peers in COP SHOOT COP -- whom NO ONE should mistake for grunge), but sound/sensibility-wise, they don't really fit in with the grunge corps. Bless'em.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 12:55 (twenty-two years ago)

Lily's album 'Better Can't Make Your Life Better' is a stone classic, sounding like The Kink's 'Face To Face', properly like it was recorded around 65/66. Brilliant songs too.

Does anyone have any recollection of:
Bullet Lavolta
Carnival Art
Warrior Soul (and the other post Jane's Addiction bands like Saigon Kick)

― mzui, Monday, 15 March 2004 13:32 (twenty-two years ago)

The 1st Warrior Soul was out in 1990. Great album. They gradually got punkier as they went on. They also moved away from the political lyrics that made them stand out. Kory Clarke says he had no need to anymore since Clinton got in.
Shame he's not made an anti-bush album really. As far as i know Warrior Soul reformed but I have no idea who is actually in it.

― Rock Bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Warrior Soul are pre-grunge, thanks.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 14:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Initial line-up of Warrior Soul featured Big Paul Ferguson (ex Killing Joke) on drums. It was not to last, however.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 14:31 (twenty-two years ago)

I remember Bullet Lavolta, can't say I liked them particularly though. I had the first EP on Taang!, I think the only song I liked was called 'Over Your Shoulder' or something. The drummer went on to Cul De Sac, didn't he?

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:03 (twenty-two years ago)

Eh, and I saw Warrior Soul with Metallica on the Justice for All tour. Eeek.

Bands I did love lots: Come, Anastasia Screamed, Rein Sanction...

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I refuse to call Come post-grunge! Technically it might apply but i ain't gonna do it. (i heart come)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Come are post-Live Skull. That is all.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:10 (twenty-two years ago)

yeah, Thalia was grungy long before grunge.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:13 (twenty-two years ago)

Much as i liked Dusted and the other stuff with Thalia, I was really more a fan of pre-Thalia Live Skull.(I heart Marnie Greenholz)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:14 (twenty-two years ago)

Hey, I love Come too, and I didn't mean that as a slander. They were just from the same time and on some of the same labels as lots of these other douchebags. Just an excuse to mention their name really. ;o)

(Won't agree with you on the pre-Thalia era Skull though!)

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:21 (twenty-two years ago)

That's okay Nick, most people wouldn't. It's more of a nostalgia thing for me.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:24 (twenty-two years ago)

Did you ever see that earlier line up live then? I only know that incarnation from Don't Get Any On You and that record with the brain on the sleeve. I don't think they ever came over to the UK until Thalia and Sonda Anderson were in the band.

― NickB (NickB), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:30 (twenty-two years ago)

No, I never saw them. It's just that all that NY noise from that time was near and dear to me as a teen.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 15:38 (twenty-two years ago)

I erased the band 'Live' from my memory...Until I read this.
Lightning Crashes was on 'The Box' constantly years ago on cable TV.

― Rock Bastard, Monday, 15 March 2004 17:13 (twenty-two years ago)

This should not be read as a defense of Live, but would you really call them "post-Grunge"? For a start, their debut album isn't exactly steeped in metallic guitars (let alone the fact that none of them had long hair). Mawkish middle-of-the-road 90's "alternative" maybe, but never grunge.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:21 (twenty-two years ago)

That actually isn't their debut, though -- their first album came out in late 1991.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:41 (twenty-two years ago)

That's the one I was talkin' `bout, Nedrick (Mental Jewelry)

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:43 (twenty-two years ago)

..which had "Operation Spirit" and "Pain Lies By the Riverside" (or whatever)...neither of which were particularly grungey in any way, shape or form, but owed more to the pious bluster of Unforgettable Fire-era U2.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 15 March 2004 17:44 (twenty-two years ago)

"Plowed" by Sponge ("Save a prayer for me/ save a prayer for me"...) is pretty blissed.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:02 (twenty-two years ago)

It's kind of the "Don't Fear the Reaper" of post-grunge.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:03 (twenty-two years ago)

This shows the location of all current Verve Pipe fans:

http://www.globaldust.com/music/detail.php?id=7338

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Didn't realize that Denmark would be such a hotbed for them.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:14 (twenty-two years ago)

(someone should tell alex that there are only three fans represented on the topographical killing joke map.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 18:17 (twenty-two years ago)

By the way, here is a fun thread where me and Anthony and maybe some other people said lots of the same stuff we say on this one, & more!:

Stone Temple Pilots

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 18:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Whats the best STP album to start with?

― Adam Litton, Monday, 15 March 2004 20:09 (twenty-two years ago)

Just get the best-of.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 15 March 2004 20:26 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a lingering curiousity about the Verve Pipe full-lengths. Never heard any, but "Hero," "Villains," and "Photograph" were all kinda neat singles. Their last album was produced by a Fountain of Wayne.

miloauckerman OTM re: "Lakini's Juice"

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:21 (twenty-two years ago)

>>ew, Scott even that "Drowning" song?

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 22:46 (twenty-two years ago)

hey, the rest of my post disappeared! here goes again:

>>>>ew, Scott even that "Drowning" song?

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 22:51 (twenty-two years ago)

happened again! ok, just forget it i guess. weird....

― chuck, Monday, 15 March 2004 22:52 (twenty-two years ago)

well I'M intrigued.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:55 (twenty-two years ago)

nobody's gonna stick up for the goo goo dolls!!!?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:56 (twenty-two years ago)

The last thing I liked about the Goo Goo Dolls was that Avril Lavigne told Rolling Stone that Johnny Rzeznizkz bought her a Replacements album. Oh, and I like how the success of one of their videos correlates directly with how often you see the fat guy.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 15 March 2004 22:59 (twenty-two years ago)

Johnny Rzeznizkz bought her a Replacements album.

There should be a class action suit that forces Johnny Rzendekins to buy everyone who bought one of his albums a Replacements album.

― christhamrin (christhamrin), Monday, 15 March 2004 23:14 (twenty-two years ago)

The second paragraph will probably annoy you, then.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 01:52 (twenty-two years ago)

Bah, I like "Here Is Gone" and "Name" better than any Replacements song.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:12 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, precisely!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:16 (twenty-two years ago)

Now I will defend Bush and Third Eye Blind.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:17 (twenty-two years ago)

Hmm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, I suspected Ned had feet of clay all along!

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:19 (twenty-two years ago)

haha Bush and Third Eye Blind are WAYYYYY more excusable than the Goo Goo Dolls (whose best trait is they're not QUITE Bon Jovi).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:20 (twenty-two years ago)

Ah, I suspected Ned had feet of clay all along!

I just know what I hate! ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I was gonna post a :O after Ned's "yes, precisely!" but Michael's bringing up two better bands reduced my shock.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:22 (twenty-two years ago)

I mean really the only problem with Bush was the songwriter's voice and lyrics - sort of like the Strokes!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:23 (twenty-two years ago)

Bush had the potential to be a great Swervedriver ripoff band more than anything else. Alas.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:24 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm still kind of reeling from the concept that "Long Way Down" is a barnburner. If I can imagine that the singer is Jamie Walters, it's hard to set that hay alight.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:27 (twenty-two years ago)

My review of the Goo Goo Dolls' best single (better than anything Westerberg did since, what, *Tim*?) is here:

http://villagevoice.com/issues/0030/eddy.php

― chuck, Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:44 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm just gonna say bullllllllllshiiiit and leave it at that.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Chuck, I swear by the Rainbow Bridge of Asgard that I want to utterly SLAY you for some of the pungent stuff that springs forth from your keyboard.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:46 (twenty-two years ago)

better than anything Westerberg did since, what, *Tim*?

Mr. Eddy is on the money! (I sold back all my Placemats Sire-era albums some months back when I realized very clearly I was never going to listen to them again -- ever).

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:52 (twenty-two years ago)

oh great. now I broke the computer screen.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:54 (twenty-two years ago)

ALL SHOOK DOWN IS ONE OF THE MOST SLEPT ON ALBUMS EVER AND I'M NOT JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE I'VE OWNED IT SINCE MIDDLE SCHOOL FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU ALLLLLLLLLL FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY MAUDLIN MIDWESTERN HEART.

Fuck, even Johnny Bon Rzeznizkz would think you guys have lost it!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:56 (twenty-two years ago)

(just playin' btw. Me no hate, just stymied)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:57 (twenty-two years ago)

I'm totally writing about All Shook Down for the Freelance Mentalists page this week. I'm clearly mental about it.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 02:58 (twenty-two years ago)

What's the Warrior Soul song that goes "'Cause I think you're beautiful"? I saw that video once when I was 11 or so and loved the song. Never heard it since though.

Prime Bon Jovi kills the Goo Goo Dolls WTF? Mike, do you rate Third Eye Blind on an album/home listening basis? I have Blue. I did defend it on here at one point and had a number of perfectly pleasant listens to it, but I have absolutely no need to hear any of it ever again. I haven't for at least a year and half probably.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:05 (twenty-two years ago)

You're right about the superiority of prime Bon Jovi, I have a loathing for Bon Jovi that defies all logic. I apologize.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I have a loathing for Bon Jovi that defies all logic

No no, it's perfectly logical.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:21 (twenty-two years ago)

I think the loathing has something to do with them having a keyboard player (keys are fine on some songs but when you've got a guy who HAS to find something to pile onto your pop-metal you're in trouble), Jon's face and that short movie he made with Mark Pellington.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:29 (twenty-two years ago)

also their hair post-Blaze Of Glory. and that Richie Sambora rocks the vocoder onstage. It sounds great but looks really icky.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:30 (twenty-two years ago)

Jon Bon Jovi made a short film? Surely his hair is better now than it was in the 80s?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 03:51 (twenty-two years ago)

it's called Destination Unknown. Stars Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg. And his hair is not right, just not right at all.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 04:00 (twenty-two years ago)

Post Grunge Explosion Also Ran bands

This passion is fantastic.

But getting back to the question, American post-grunge was irreversably crippled by the likes of the fucking Presidents of the United States of America and, to a lesser extent, Everclear. Throw in Cake as well. I can't believe these poxy bands haven't been mentioned yet after a whole day of nostalgia, but there you go.

― Stephen Stockwell (Stephen Stockwell), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 07:37 (twenty-two years ago)

I saw that Jon Bon Jovi movie. It has its moments, but its not as good as don johnson's music movie.

― scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 16 March 2004 11:49 (twenty-two years ago)

three weeks pass...

Anyone remember Paw? They had a big hit allover MTV at the time. But I forget the name of it. I think it was about a runaway dog.

― Rambo, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"name a nu-metal band worth listening to"

Actually, Apex Theory's album and EP are both really good.

And "Youth of the Nation" by P.O.D. is a fine single.

― chuck, Tuesday, 6 April 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...

hmmm do The God Machine count?
No. They were too separate and genius and wonderful.

-- Ned Raggett (ne...), March 14th, 2004.

God Machine and genius are words that do not belong in the same sentance. No they weren't grunge at all, just depressed.

― bluemoon, Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Mm.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I still unapologetically like the first Foo Fighters album.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 July 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

I now have Hold Me Up by the Goo Goo Dolls and I really like it a lot. The "Million Miles Away" cover totally took me by surprise, it's all great post-Mats stuff. Too bad Rzezeznzizkz got all glossy (though if I'm in the right mood I can dig "Iris") and grew a cheesier faux-rasp.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 24 July 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

:-) Rah for CeCe! That album is a flat out underrated gem.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 July 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Someone may have said it, but what about No Doubt?

― Atnevon (Atnevon), Sunday, 25 July 2004 04:25 (twenty-one years ago)

they may have succeeded grunge, but they are not post-grunge.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Sunday, 25 July 2004 05:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyone else like the first two Fun Lovin' Criminals albums?

― Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Sunday, 25 July 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

four years pass...

Anyone else like the first two Fun Lovin' Criminals albums?

― Herman G. Neuname, Sunday, 31 August 2008 23:14 (seventeen years ago)

Of all the bands that were inexplicably popular in the UK but unknown in the US, surely they were the worst.

― Neil S, Monday, 1 September 2008 11:48 (seventeen years ago)

But they are least partly responsible for a decent pizzeria in Dublin.

― MacDara, Monday, 1 September 2008 13:42 (seventeen years ago)

Bizarre thread. Folks were labeling all kinds of bands grunge.

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 1 September 2008 13:53 (seventeen years ago)

Just like radio stations/MTV/Music Mags back then

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 1 September 2008 15:05 (seventeen years ago)

But I don't remember any radio stations calling Buffalo Tom, the Pooh Sticks, Redd Kross and the Goo Goo Dolls "post grunge."

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 1 September 2008 16:18 (seventeen years ago)

Of course, I didn't listen to a ton of radio back then.

― QuantumNoise, Monday, 1 September 2008 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

over here in the uk spin doctors and lemonheads got called grunge on Radio 1 and Top Of The Pops :D

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 1 September 2008 16:21 (seventeen years ago)

btw that Dig album mentioned way upthread was good. Did they make another?

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 1 September 2008 23:08 (seventeen years ago)

In fact im gonna listen to that Dig album today

― Herman G. Neuname, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 11:47 (seventeen years ago)

But I don't remember any radio stations calling Buffalo Tom, the Pooh Sticks, Redd Kross and the Goo Goo Dolls "post grunge."

I've never heard a radio station call anything "post grunge".

S: Molly" and "Plowed" by Sponge. "Wish You Were Here" and "Drive" by I.N.C.U.B.U.S. All of Foo Fighters singles. All of Bush's singles. The one about Superman by Three Doors Down. The Chad Kroeger song from the Spiderman soundtrack.

D: Anything else Chad Kroeger has ever done. Creed. Staind.

― kingkongvsgodzilla, Tuesday, 2 September 2008 12:27 (seventeen years ago)

four years pass...

I did a search for Bullet Lavolta and they came up in this thread which is amusing because if anything, the Boston band was about two years ahead of it's time, but those were a crucial 24 months.

One of the CDs I picked up yesterday on my first excursion to a local record store in ages is a live-plus-odds-and-sods Bullet LaVolta release that came out, apparently posthumously, on Matador Records in 1991 awesomely entitled "The Gun Didn't Know I Was Loaded." Although it's a very rough, bass-heavy recording done at the time on the air of Boston college juggernaut WERS 88.9FM (and recorded over a similar live session by The Pixies, according to the liner notes!), it reminds me of when I first moved back to New York in 1989 because the band played out there quite a bit at that point. They were also one of my earlier interviews, though I cannot recall for whom. They had a singer named Yukki (pronounced Yucky). They rocked unpretentiously and righteously.

This song was always a favorite of mine and it leads off this album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ6Ldl9BByQ

To be sure, a track this heavy and instilled with punk attitude (and sure, grungy, if you insist) was an anomaly in the world of major labels BC (Before Cobain) yet RCA Records bought the rights to an early TAANG! album and Metal Blade EP, reissuing them together, and even coughed up the funds to record the prophetically-titled "Swandive" album. Released the same day as "Nevermind," it lacked the fire of the earlier material (but is well worth the $1.64 used on Amazon.com right now) and the band left us shortly thereafter.

But this disc rekindles memories of seeing the band back in the day as I made my first tentative steps living on my own in New York. Five bucks well spent.

― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Monday, 11 March 2013 13:31 (thirteen years ago)

nine years pass...

So many of the forgotten indie bands mentioned in this old thread I listen to now like they're the hot new thing.

― Evan, Friday, 13 January 2023 17:59 (three years ago)

for reasons i cannot explain, this revival has reminded me of this crew.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9sH7AoRd14

― mark e, Friday, 13 January 2023 18:26 (three years ago)

I really wish the band Sponge didn’t suck because it’s such a great 90s dirtbag/grunge band name .

― not too strange just bad audio (brimstead), Friday, 13 January 2023 20:24 (three years ago)

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