Morrissey: The "Irish Blood, English Heart" thread

Irish blood, English heart
This I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And no regime can buy or sell me

I've been dreaming of a time when
to be English is not to be baneful
to be standing by the flag, not feeling shameful
racist or racial

Irish blood, English heart
this I'm made of
There is no one on earth I'm afraid of
And I will die with both of my hands untied

I've been dreaming of a time when
the English are sick to death
of Labour, and Tories
and spit upon the name Oliver Cromwell
and denounce this royal line that still salute him
and will salute him
FOREVER...

there are even bits of Interpol and U2

When was Moz ever known to be subtle, though?

As a whole, I suppose the song's not bad, though even after repeated listens, it's not grabbing me. (Tis no Shoplifters....)

Can't help feeling like he's trying really hard to stay relevant.

[That said, I'd get more excited if I could see him play live---though after a mate told me how much tix are going for, fat chance of that!]

b) The myth of Cromwell as Bad Imperialist kinda sits ill with Mozza's Republican viewpoint

c) As a first gen Smiths fan I'm lately thinking, the more I analyze the Mozzter's lyrics, the more mediocre they seem.

What myth exactly is this?

I've never understood English Nationalism, and god knows Moz has got into enough trouble in the past for discussing it. Nationalist sentiments seem more understandable in countries like Ireland where identity has been part of the driving force in casting out an oppressor state.

You mean the 'myth',that population of Ireland was halved in the 12 years of Cromwell's occupation either by slaughter e.h of the inhabitants of Drogedha or Wexford or the systematic destruction of crops and buildings. I think the numbers are pretty much accepted, and not just by Irish nationalists.

OTM

I don't think, though, that the UK royal family salute Cromwell overmuch.

MORRISSEY has confirmed the final details of his eagerly-awaited comeback single - the first for seven years.
'Irish Blood, English Heart' will come out on May 10 backed with three new tracks from the singer that will not be found on his forthcoming seventh solo album 'You Are The Quarry'.
CD1 will feature 'It's Hard To Walk Tall When You're Small', while CD2 will include the B-sides 'Munich Air Disaster 1958', 'The Never Played Symphonies' and the enhanced video for 'Irish Blood, English Heart'.
The limited edition 7" vinyl will have 'It's Hard To Walk Tall When You're Small' on the flipside.

wtf is moz's problem with ripping off his fans? is a single spread over 3 releases and 2 formats really necessary? and you know all of this shit is gonna get slapped on a singles comp in 18 months anyway.

damn...that's a cold dis record...

Is Moz a Manchester United fan?

Matt, you need to go to ILE and look up 'football chants'. To put it in terms you'd understand, imagine people sang disses at both their team and the opponent, if it were the Vikings I'm sure Randy Moss would get one to the tune of No Woman No Cry about meter maids and spliff smoking. Get it now?

I don't know if this is actually true. I think they're just noisier (or not drowned out by fans from the home counties).

The Vikings have a "song" too!

Skol! Vikings lets win the game!
Skol! Vikings honor your name!
Go get a first down then get a touchdown
Rock 'em! Sock 'em! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

but we don't have any dis songs towards the Packers : (

JUST LIKE IRON MAIDEN!!!

(see Ned, I'm learning!!)

I'm well into hearing this Munich air crash song now.

Good, good.

The cover of "Dagenham Dave" shows Venables when he was playing for Chelsea (I hope I have that right but I probably don't), but it's true that the tour in 1999/2000 had some West Ham photos as backdrops. During the performance of "Lost" of all things (which is an okay B-side as opposed to the spectacularly brilliant "The Edges Are No Longer Parallel" from the same single, "Roy's Keen").

and Mark Smith weighs in

Morrissey is asked if he still follows football. "No. If they were kicking politicians around, I'd follow there. If it was Tony Blair, instead of a round object, I'd be captivated."

(This is a fun thread.)

Traditionally, Everton was the Catholic team in Liverpool but I think all that nonsense is long since forgotten.

I assumed that the reference to the royals bowing to Cromwell was a reference to protestantism.

Well, you could be right but my dear old bigoted Dad always claimed Everton as "one of ours" - along with Hibs and Dundee United

Others are right that Morrissey is maybe a United fan, if owt, and that it's overrated about Manchester = City.

Who? Mark E Smith and the Gallaghers? Three of the four Stone Roses are on record as United fans. And I can remember reading an article that Bez from the Mondays wrote about driving down to Monaco to see United play away. And I've got a feeling New Order are reds as well, but I might just be making that up.

NME preview

Goodness me, I have just read the preview and now even *I* am thrilled.

Unafraid to be labelled controversial - ho. ho.

"Attack! AT-TACK!" *horrible noise*

That is enough?

*ZZZAAAAAAP!*

See, there now you're one of us! Boy I hope this album is as good as Vauxhall & I!!

i've still never heard southpaw, I must get that one of these days...

Pinefox did you read the Guardian on Sunday?

Once.

Twice.

More, than that.

http://microsites.nme.com/thisweek/

festival mismatch of the year award happening in manchester:

http://www.drownedinsound.com/articles/9398.html
smiths, cure, pixies plus ocean crapping scene and stereodullophonics

Durst may act a teenager, but he is over 30

The 'Virgin Trains Move' festival. Good grief.

No, The Smiths have been elevated to "entry level rock" now, the first bands that have already split-up that kids start listening to around the time they, cough, "get into" music. See also: kids walking around Estuary towns with The Jam patches, that weird division that occurs somewhere around Coventry that decides whether or not you're going to keep your neighbours awake by "She Bangs The Drums" or "London Calling". And "Legend" by Bob Marley, obv.

Oh, it is.

http://www.afterallthis.com/afterall-howsoonisnow.mp3

The only thing: the interview ran long (it was good, but writer does not have my knowledge of subject) and the piece I'd written about conservative/feminised dress impulses in a/w '04 collections had to be held back for the next issue.

Yet, when was the last time that I stood on platform 6 of London Bridge, reading something for the first time, and *laughed out loud*, caring not for the reactions of those around?

Was it when I read Hegel on that platform in 1996? Or Eliot in too many subsequent years?

No, it was today, only today, reading Morrissey's replies, unable to believe he had pulled it off, grabbed the rubber words to keep the china plates spinning, time and again and time.

And for a little while, £1.80 seemed fine.

- Were you surprised when NME called the Smiths the Greatest Act of All Time?

- Greatest act? God, it was only an act! Yeah, of course. I mean, I couldn't believe we won over Abba.

But I love his mobile telephone remarks too.

No. I hate the way they ring, and when I see people use them in public I feel repulsed by that. I find it such an invasion. And also, I don't want to be tracked down and almost monitored every second of the day. [Sips tea] This tea... It's crude oil.

the piece I'd written about conservative/feminised dress impulses in a/w '04 collections had to be held back for the next issue.

I hope you weren't equating conservative with feminine, Suzy. That would be very lazy, considering that the future is feminine. One day we will all drive Vulvas.

Best thing about the NME article is the separated at birth picture of Tony Blair and Larry Grayson.

The front cover looks like a Business Monthly or something.

That's too bad, you should have done the interview.

Nicole, cheers for saying that. However I think it would've been twice as long as Ashley's piece if I'd done it. I met M when I was 18 and found him quite thick, but he may have been a bit phased, and what 18-year-old bluestocking type doesn't think she's much more intelligent than her jetlagged hero?

'fazed'?

Oddly, I met Bobby Gillespie in my road a few weeks ago - and he recognised me from work etc. We chatted, and I bumped into him again at the V. Westwood party the same night. Chatting again, I told him I'd met him in the middle of a snowstorm when I was like 17 (first JAMC tour, we couldn't get in to the 19+ venue, MO was 'meet band, watch soundcheck instead') and he'd started asking me and a friend about Louise Brooks. He was amazed that anyone would remember him that way. My friend, however, was the one that fancied him.

N. in shocka: songs about getting laid plus literary references v. songs about not getting laid, plus literary references. First prolonged exposure I ever had to Momus records, however, was obviously down to Nick himself tape-serenading me in his kitchen ;).

This begs a question.

I think that the Pinefox using html shouldn't pass without comment too, somehow it gladdens my heart.

Also, in ESM, quote of the century goes along the lines of 'Why doesn't anyone ever assume that J. Marr was in love with me?'

I reckon M. has been lion-tamed by his rather excellent press officer John, because he isn't piling on the Jarvis hate (John is responsible for both) but might also want to prove a point to them so they get the PHE4R from him doubling their circulation.

Dreamy.

because he isn't piling on the Jarvis hate

*arched eyebrow* I admit I could easily have missed this but was El Moz regularly bashing him in interviews?

nice to see him get an american mag cover..

Eurgh, that sounds terrible! And the book sounds like it would be almost as bad as The Five People You Meet In Heaven...

The whole re-interview thing was really weird too. Morrissey is upset because everyone assumes that he was in love with Marr and not the other way around? Get over it!

yeah you drag it around like a ball an' chain
you wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain
you wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down
ya bitch about the present and blame it on the past
i'd like to find your inner child an' kick it's little ass

does read like some of the You Are The Quarry lyrics I've read.

Now I'm imagining Morrissey as Victor Meldrew

His templates in Peepholism are quite impressive, though.

I love the image of a crazed "That was my idea! And yes, that was my idea too! No, no one else! That was mine too!" Morrissey scaring the interviewer witless.

He should've been a graphic designer!

"He's very extreme in his emotional reactions to people. He's always been intensely suspicious, actually finding it intensely difficult to trust people. I actually feel like he's been indoctrinated against trusting people at some stage in his life.

He finds it difficult to receive friendship. If you don't learn self-esteem when you're a child, for whatever reason, you have to work really hard when you're older. And you've got to have a reason for doing that. He's the type of person who, if people want to keep in touch with him, they probably need to do it. I don't think he really believes that people want to be his friend."

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001WB696.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Is this an English expression: You are the quarry? What does it mean? Notice how I always subconsciously change it to Under the Quarry.

Morrissey! You are Under the Quarry. Get over it!

Given the gun thing I suspect it means 'quarry' in the 'hunted animal; prey' sense of the word.

The interviewer is the boyfriend of Sh@rl33n Spit3ri. I'm just wondering what the editor of ESM is trying to get from him in terms of power politics. Most of the interviewers *are* going to be fawning - these are people who've been wanting to interview him for ages.

I'd have been more searching re. the racism thing - nobody is going about getting answers in a clever way here at all, ie. getting him to discuss migration as a trend, and what it's like to be 2G and an immigrant, essentially, himself. Heard the single on Thursday, it's good - and yes, interesting take on who's occupying who re: Cromwell.

"Steve, luv the suit."

First Of The Gang To Die / Hairdresser On Fire / America Is Not The World / I Like You / The Headmaster Ritual / Subway [into...] Everyday Is Like Sunday / I Have Forgiven Jesus / How Can Anybody Possibly Know How I Feel? / Such A Little Thing Makes Such A Big Difference / Little Man, What Now? / I'm Not Sorry / A Rush And A Push And The Land Is Ours / The World Is Full Of Crashing Bores / All The Lazy Dykes [not played] / No One Can Hold A Candle To You / Jack The Ripper / Hand In Glove / Irish Blood, English Heart // There Is A Light That Never Goes Out

Okay, NOW I'm befuddled.

Interesting lyric change for "Hairdresser on Fire":

"So much for London
Home of the crass, outrageous and free"

Mm, sounds like that woulda been sweet. :-) Glad you had a great time!

Am I the only Raymonde fan on ILx?

Do you still wear that biker jacket... with Raymonde o-o-o-n?

http://motorcycleaupairboy.com/interviews/1992/caucasian.htm

he hasnt said he's 'with enoch' so to speak but he might as well have. he empathises with skinheads and the NF and BNP.

Irish Blood English heart is not the recipe for a lover of the far right in england and that is fact!

The title of the song is about his Irish background but of course he isn't from there living in liverpool the Irish capital of England the isn't a day gone by when an anglo-irish person is not faced with the obvious question form a fascist english person "Are you george or Paddy"

I am Irish coming from a Sectarian background without a fascist bone in my body. (Take my advice be athiest it helps lol!)but i was raised Catholic. I live in South Down in the north of Ireland enoch powell was elected here after his shamefull english career which basically hits the nail in the coffin of the tensions where i live when in Ireland.

I have a proud english girlfriend and when we heard this we were both blown away cos it spoke what we both have always thought F**k royalism there is no need for it anymore bar international tourism. Give the royals their title but not our tax money to clean there arses with 50 pound notes. My english girlfriend his a historian and also knows about cromwell. The english curriculum told her that he was a great guy that helped poor people. Thats it. To basic an explanation for her she curiously researched and there you go. I dont need to show sources on the net just type the name in your search engine and it wont take long to at least find a respectable source.

We all know he hated the irish and ruled his conquered towns by fear and took great pleasure in watching men women and children die in the most horrific of ways and this is fact not the mad accusations of a republican because as morrisey said "no regime can buy or sell me" no one owns me

Morrissey is not political but is patriotic i.e Reclaiming St George from the ignorant far right.

The racist morrissey accusations came, when he mistakenly decided to back Madness on a tour who have some what of a racist following (Poor Suggs) usually idiotic skinheads who share a brain cell. He is known for his anti racism songs which are usually written in riddles when he hit the stage he took a stand which no one understood he wrapped himself in a union jack and jumped around the stage singing a song aimed at the skinheads (Dont remember which song but he explained this in nme recently) but really was against them to avoid being lynched. Then the tabloids got hold of the story and i really dont need to explain what they did to get everyones 30pence.

And finally if I havent bored you to death already his labour and conservative arguement is his frustration of their promises year after year after year because hes a manchester boy and the parties have always let their city town.

I hope this Helps but I'll be happy to deal with any criticisms thrown at this exausting rant.

*Glad I got this rant of my chest as this should have been a dead issue years ago*

... Am I??

blimey, you should swing by Old Compton Street, I was down there a minute ago getting my lunch and going on this new information the place was swarming with the BNP!

When he writes racist tracks do you think he is aiming for his intending audience his racist tracks are supposed to disgust you as they are said through the eyes of a racist and the fact people are disgusted means it's working and has raised more awareness he aint no racist.

Some people dont look into what hes doing properly and he sacraficed himself to raise the awareness.

btw cathal, its a nice theory that its merely roleplay, but those song lyrics are hardly clear enough to suggest that.

"I'm incapable of racism, even though I wear this T-shirt and even though I'm delighted that an increasing number of my audience are skinheads in nail varnish. And I'm not trying to be funny, that really is the perfect audience for me. But I am incapable of racism, and the people who say I am racist are basically just the people who can't stand the sight of my physical frame. I don't think we should flatter them with our attention. ... The sight of streams of skinheads in nail varnish, it somehow represents the Britain I love. Wouldn't it be awful to find yourself 'followed' by people you didn't want? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the skinhead was an entirely British invention."

i do find it odd how he thinks himself incapable of racism. thats an excellent immunity to have.

specially not skinheads in NAIL VARNISH.

Woohoo!

http://www.zwan.it/images/billy/bio3.jpg

The intermission music is more of the same. Bardot, Gainsbourg et al. I have the Club Gin: with grapefruit juice and a spash of bourbon. Then the lights dim and there is a huge gong. Disconnect: Is the the Gong Show or Showtime at the Apollo? The intro song is some effete polite cockeny accent reciting the world's traumas one after another: Thatcher, aparthaid, poverty, racism, etc. etc. But I can't get too upset because I know this heralds Morrissey.

He enters in a shiny red top, most likely Marc Jacobs, slate gray baggy jean-slacks, a navy blue blazer with gold buttons, very Headmaster's Ritual, and light-as-a-feather black dress shoes (Gucci?). He's in fighting weight, though I never minded the extra pounds of the last tour.

He glides across the stage like a ballet dancer; do these shoes have any sole at all? He pirouettes and curtsies. All traces of last tour's Hunchback of Notre Dame have disappeared; apparerently Gene Kelly is the current inspiration. Likewise, the guttural growls and moans are jettisonned; and the R trilling too is in scant effect.

The band sounds fine but is a bit overpowering; vocals could be mixed higher. Morrissey complains of a cold, sniffles. He thrusts his chin out, embracing the caricuture. He sheds the jacket after a few songs, but there will be no costume change. The red shirt stays on till it comes out in the finale, tossed to the crowd while the bashful singer skips off the stage.

Only a few flowers thrown to the stage; C. and I will have to rectify on Saturday.

Day 2:

I am banished to the last row of the lower mezzanine, where I sip the Appolo Sea Breeze (vodka, grapefruit juice and a splash of cranberry) and watch a leisurely Johanson set. I don't think anyone enjoys the intermisson music as much as I do. "Single" by Pony Club is especially bracing."

Entrance, stage left. Black blazer, lilac blouse, same pants, brown shoes (same style as yesterday). Sprig hanging in front of genitalia. I would love to know where he gets the shoes—I would like a pair myself. After a few songs I hover by the balcony, until the polite Apollo people eject me, and I find a better seat in the central mezzanine.

This show was a bit more relaxed, and Morrissey was chattier. He seems especially dependent on Julia (who neglected the bouquet today and instead proferred a note) and he told her that she needs a haircut. Is Morrissey worried that his greatest fan is not stylish enough for him? Morrissey anounced that she had seen something like 220 shows and the audience applauded.

I was afraid for a moment that he was going to play "America is not the World" when he embarked on a large George Bush diatribe (talking American politics is not his strong suit) but then he segued into "The World is Full of Charming Bores." Not before saying that he knows we probably don't vote and that we should. He was full of all sorts of advice tonight! I sort of doubt the older, largely 30something and up crowd (sorry Carey) -- I came face to face my demographic and it wasn't pretty -- is the contingency he needs to persuade, but...

After 1 song the jacket was shed, and after a couple of songs the lovely lilac blouse was changed for a straight black one, which ended up thrown at the end. The band starting to rock at the end with "Irish Blood, English Heart" and Moz got a standing ovvation that lasted until the encore. He looked genuinely pleased and came out giving affected, truncated bows. He said, "To think, that I am standing in the same place where the Shirelles once stood, it gives my shivers."

One thing I really noticed the past two days is how bow-legged he is--which sort of complicates my ballet dancer theory of last night. Ballet dancers rotate their feet out, but he completley pigeon toes it -- it is so charming.

Morrissey thanked David Johanson for opening (he forgot last night) and then did an "Who-ah oh uh" in Johanson-esque. He's kind of an awkward mimic, which is surprising.

Dean-o has a great mohawk--the rest of the band members look spiffy in their suits.

Would any of you English people (or Scottish even) be interested in my tickets for the Manchester show? I'm not sure it's worth traveling all that way for an arena show--and I am very low on cash as it is.

The Irish Blood single, with 3 b-sides (It's Hard to Walk Tall When You're Small, Munich Air Disaster 1958, and The Never-Player Symphonies) is out in the US...I bought it yesterday at an indie retailer in Mpls...

The b-sides are pretty great...(I really like hearing Irish Blood in proper form as well)...It's Hard to Walk Tall is great, kinda his more symphathetic Short People by Randy Newman....very nice lyrically...musically very Your Arsenal, chord changes remind me a bit of "Do You Best and Don't Worry', but very catchy...great falsetto at the end!

Munich is prob. the weakest track...seems a bit maudlin and just dull....I'm growing on the Never Played Symphonies....I like it...the production is pretty, lush fake orchestral synths by that guy from Jellyfish...

No show tonight:( Wednesday is amateur night. Maybe Moz can rest and get over his "Harlem mumps.")

SAUCY!

Sounds like it's actually Imperfect List, by Big Hard Excellent Fish (a one-off alias for Pete Wylie circa 1990. The voice is Josie Jones of late-'80s Wah! incarnations, and Robin Guthrie is credited on the single, but not for anything in particular).

i've only had time to hear the first 4 songs of the album so far, but what i heard didn't really impress me. maybe it will get better.

Got the LP this morning!

After stopped in at Rififi, where they were having the hugest '80s high school dance party most crowded dancefloor I have ever seen. C. and B. ditched me and left me this ex-Puerto Rican goth who requested Morrissey for me. Nothing clears a dancefloor like "Irish Blood, English Heart." It went from sardines to half full. They also played the Smiths on the movie screen the whole night:)

When I met the Smiths in 1986 I gave Johnny Marr some jukebox 7" Johnny Cash singles and M. a custom t-shirt. Off to play CD now.

She should not fear. We are good people. Except for the evil ones.

Yay all these Mary reviews! They're grand!

Irish Blood, English Heart

C. prefers Siberia...

FOREVER

Is Neil Diamond gay? Why is it when you are drinking vodka are you scared of whitsching to another liqour. Am I speaking in Elvish?

Don't make fun of Daddy's voice...

Carey which CD do you want the most? I owe you my life...

Anyway, to elaborate on the above from me: Elvis T had snagged the album from slsk and had already proclaimed it spiff, so pre- and post-Chakifest I gave it an ear. Elvis's take that in fact it was his namesake's 68 comeback special Moz-style seems very apt -- it's a stylish, effective recharge. I don't quite catch what JtN says is bland about it but I'll let him speak further on that point -- for me, the key thing was that, similar to all the worry over what Ross Robinson was supposedly going to do to the Cure (and didn't), what the Blink-182 producer guy does for Moz and his band is nothing unexpected or worrying, just makes them pretty much sound like what they are, though with some lush arrangements here and there. I'll grant that I would have liked a bit more of a kick on "The First of the Gang to Die" but otherwise, it's pretty grand, and there are plenty of classic lyrical moments to boot.

Plus: I can HEAR him gurning his lyrics. I mean, you can actually hear his jaw jut out... it never used to be this way.

I want to like it!

I like it a lot, but those synths are rather off-putting. Can Morrissey not afford real strings?

Yup, Curefest, Ozzfest type fest tour.

Yes, but this doesn't clear up whether he's untrustworthy or not. ;-)

I'm really loving the new album at the moment, I'm very pleasantly surprised. 'Come Back to Camden' is great. Also, speaking of the B-Sides, I think 'Never Played Symphonies' is one of the best Morrissey tracks I've heard for a long time...

We were sitting in the third row mezz, center. C. and I kept drinking jack hammers. I asked for a Bronx Zoo once, but they just gave me jack hammers again. I couldn't decide if I should try to sneak onto the bottom floor. So during the intermission music I milled about the doors to the orchestra. They were checking tix pretty heavily. I tried to sneak in through this side door but the doorwoman reprimanded me. I wasn't sure if I should risk missing the start of the show in hopes of getting on the floor, and I knew that we had great seats anyway, and would probably be able to see better from them, so I went back upstairs.

Morrissey came on singing Sinatra: "And now, the end is near, it's time to face the final curtain," and then led into "First of the Gang to Die." He wore a bright red blazer over a black gingham check shirt, and the same pants as always I think. When he sang HDOF he changed London to Harlem: "Here is Harlem..." I think his second shirt was brown plaid, but maybe I am getting it mixed up with last night? His final shirt was a white tuxedo shirt (like the one he wore on Craig Kilborn last year). I don't like this shirt so much but I suppose it is fancy for the last occasion.

He thanked all of the people who came for all 5 nights, and said something like, "We know who you are, we have your names, and we'll be around."

Towards the end said, "I want to sincerely thank you all for giving us such a warm reception. We really don't deserve it, but thank you nonetheless. After 'The World is Full of Crashing Bores" he said, "But you're not like that, that's why you're here, and not out there. At least, I think so." After singing, "most people keep their brains between their legs" he laid down on floor on his back facing the audience and thrust out his pelvis and held in that position for the end of the song. Then he laughed and said, "Now you know why the tickets were so expensive. The drama and the histionics are extra. (It's worth it.)"

He said, "We finally have a new album, it's called the Impotence of Earnest, and you can buy it at Walgreens."

When he sang rubber ring, he pointed to the left side of the audience when singing, "Do you love me like you used to" and everyone started screaming (I guess that was a yes). Before Jack the Ripper, he said, "This is song about the '80s. But it's the 1880's. " And then he asked an audience member, "Did you get it?"

Before TIALTNGO he said something like, "I know we'll be seeing each other again, in far-flung places." For the that song as the finale the house lights came on and everyone in the balcony was standing and singing together, except for C., who fought to suppress a yawn.

We went to the Spin after party at Misshapes at Luke and Leroy's. We got their early and it was only half full but it really fulled up toward the end. The DJ had both the Spin covers and the Index covers in front of the booth. The guy was playing good songs, almost the exact same thing as the party the night before at Rififi (I wonder if it was the same dj?) but when the girl came on by 3.30 she started playing straight Michael Jackson. (Why was there nonstop MJ at the Morrissey after-party?) C. had left long before to go see a garage band from Canada at Siberia(?) so I went to check out the other party at Rothko's which was completely dead by the time I arrived, had like one person in it, and was closing. (The last song they played at Rififi Friday nite was "Never Played Symphonies."

Fri. night during TIALTNGO one person got on the stage and then everything went crazy and people were coming on the stage from every direction and Morrissey had to stop singing and kind of cower for a while. I expected Sat. to be crazy, but maybe they had tighter security? Only girl went on the stage. Morrissey very graciously helped her on, saying, "steady" and then she stood right in front of him and handed him a letter, to which he said "thank you." It was very cute. She then ran for the exit herself, I don't think the guards even had to touch her.

Wasn't that "Subway Train" intro to "There Is a Light" lovely? He should have done the whole thing. I'd love to hear him sing the "but you're so busy reading Suzy Says, you can't look now" line.

In LA he came out to the theme song to Charade. It sounded like Frank Sinatra, but I don't think he's ever done it. Maybe it was Bobby Darin. I know the pre-show tape had a couple of Brigitte Bardot songs on it, "Contact" and "Ce N'est Pas Vrai".

No one seems to know what is happening with "Don't make fun of Daddy's voice." It's not on the album.

Yep, the Subway Train intro was a beaut.

I think it's Johnny Mercer singing on Charade--here it's been the last song of the intermission music, but he comes on to that crazy list song. He didn't do that in L.A.?

I want to dl the song from the intermission music by the Pony Club that goes something like, "I can't go out tonight, because I'm single, and it's raining." Apparently the song is called "Single" (maybe) but I can't find it on my low-end dl provider.

I have been to the mountain.

the reason for the confusion IMHO is that most people seem to think "Labour" began in 1963/64, and has only ever been about the technocratic, modernist, internationalist tendency of Wilson and (obviously with much less residual socialist instinct) Blair, and the right-on, ultra-PC, similarly modernist and internationalist tendency of the latter-day radical left (dismissive of Big Capitalism but perfectly embracing of many US influences from the cultural left, not least the hip-hop Morrissey so despised) which was on the brink of taking over the party when the Smiths first emerged.

pre-Wilson, the now-dormant puritan socialist tendency was very strong in the party and in the movement more generally, and this combined a utopian belief in equality of the people and opposition to the Establishment (cf "I think the main blemish on this country is absolute segregation which seems to appear on every level, with everything and everybody. There is no unity." and "I'm not totally averse to violence. I think it's quite necessary in some extremes. Violence on behalf of CND is absolutely necessary ... obviously CND care about the people and that's why they do what they do. That's patriotism", both Morrissey quotes from the year of the miners' strike) with a cultural conservatism and a wariness of all US influences - as much those which the modern radical left would see as politically and culturally "sound" as those which they would see as irredeemably corporate, neocon, whatever.

so if you find Morrissey's grumpy insularity and wariness of the enthusiastic modernism that has come to be associated with "the left" in the last 40 years ("the common sense from the future is to try and preserve as much as we can from the past", as far back as '84, or "American/Japanese, they're all foreign ..." in '89) incompatible with his apparent socialist leanings, that is the reason; old-time socialism was more conservative, and more dependant on what is now generally seen as a dodgy idea of nationalism, than the New Right are. it is quite true that, although ostentatiously removed from the Establishment, Morrissey's worldview as denounced by the NME in 1992 was more literal-conservative than the worldview of the New Tory Establishment. it's literal-conservative nationalists versus liberal internationalists all the way now, of course - it's just that the party system is still structured like the Berlin Wall never came down, which drives public dissatisfaction with it.

this puritan socialist tendency is also in Nicky Wire - the dynamic that fascinates me about the Manics is exactly the same as that which fascinates me about the Smiths; they are both profoundly Americosceptic rock bands, and both struggled in public to work out that contradiction. this is why i think Nicky has acted in a form of self-denial with his constant anti-Morrissey comments over the years: he can't bring himself to admit how similar they actually are, in some ways at least.

Excellent posts, but how does Morrissey stand in the scale today, considering he lives in California and has this massive Latin American following? There may be a lot of small-c conservatism in him, and nostalgia for, as you say, the Hilda Ogdens... but he is/was into a lot of American music, and some radical English 'eccentric' writers like Sitwell and Wilde (well, Irish in his case)... of course, Alan Bennett is one of the best models, being as irreduciably part of The North as Morrissey, and possessing a similar glumness of wit (and one senses the small-c conservative socialist politics). And where does Shelagh Delaney come into it...? Morrissey's most pilleged literary source along with Wilde, of course.

I'd not be surprised to find he was a fan of George Bernard Shaw; again, ties in with some degree of earnest socialism and gentle (Irish) nationalism. GBS's plays rather bridge the gap between Wildean eloquence and political commitment. The recent single places Morrissey as both an Irish and English nationalist, but yes, in the Hoggartian sense... If he has any affinity with the 'right', then it is clearly with Betjeman (alluded to with "Every Day Is Like Sunday") and not the BNP. I can see that Morrissey longs for a time when there could be some patched consensus between the wistful nationalist stoics - the 'Secret People of England' of Chesterton's poem - and the northern working-classes. Both groups are now so diminished within themselves in spirit and in number that such an alliance could only be a minority one in the country at large, today. It seemed to me represented a few years ago, when Henry Blofeld and Dennis Skinner conversed on Test Match Special during a Lunch or Tea break; they found an easy, amused rapport, yet both are of the same generation, born in the 1930s... who both well remember the country as it was before the turbulent 70s and 80s.

people who hold such dreams of a vanished England moving to the US, let alone creating their own enclaves there, is less common than it has been in various Commonwealth countries (or even parts of France), obviously because it's more difficult to keep such things going in the country which has been the main force for the erosion of that imagined England. but there was the ultra-British enclave in old Hollywood as once chronicled by Sheridan Morley, C. Aubrey Smith and all that, and Morrissey might just be in that tradition. certainly there are those who feel that if England isn't "English" enough for them, they'd rather live somewhere else even if it's been a force for what they see as erosion ... i'm sure you've read some of the ultra-right-wingers on the political ngs saying they'd love to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand, and these would surely be people who deplore the adoption of the intoning of each sentence as though it was a question (forgotten the technical term, sadly) in Britain ...

ultimately i think Momus perhaps summed it up best. on these boards once i expressed my surprise that he had compared his leaving ("freeing himself from") Britain to Morrissey's doing the same thing, because as i saw it Morrissey had left because there *weren't enough* remnants of Old England left and he found the real California a lesser evil than a kind of quasi-California off the coast of Europe (remember all those "America is fine in its place, across the Atlantic; it works very well and is quite interesting" Moz quotes of old?) whereas Momus had left because he thought there were still *too many* remnants of the England Morrissey yearned for. the ambiguity of Momus' words here is perfect:

"... I'd say that precisely what makes all three of us - me, you and Moz - interesting is precisely our ambiguity. Mainly, we privilege the 'elsewhereness' of here. We are both futurists and antiquarians, radicals and conservatives ... People like us would either like a radical transformation of society into something different, progressive, futuristic (in Morrissey's case that would have been the execution of Thatcher and the royals, and seeing the shoplifters and vegetarians of the world taking over). But failing that, we'd like everything to be as it was in, oh, 1600. Or 200. (Insert your own personal golden age of your own personal corner of the UK here.)"

ambiguity is, indeed, Morrissey's defining quality (how else can you describe a man who can simultaneously yearn for the 1950s while calling for the fall of the monarchy?). while he hardly interests me musically these days, he is one of the very few artists who have become in my mind the embodiment of a whole way of living; watching footage of young boys on Merseyside in 1967 on BBC Four just now, *I thought of Morrissey* - or, at any rate, he's the figure i most strongly associate with that social archetype, both having lived it at the time to an extent, and having mythologised it since. i didn't think of, say, Mark E. Smith, perhaps because MES has generally been an unashamed modernist in most of the important senses.

Robin C: have you read David Peace's GB84? Reading it has made me wonder what the Smiths' *explicit* (rather than symbolic / implicit) relation to the miners' strike was.

That 1970s hard-right stuff is mentioned in the book: p.261, to be precise. A figure named General William Walters (real?) appears:

Founder or member of Red Alert/Civil Assistance. Royal Society of St George. The Unioson Committe for Action. Great Britain 1975. Aims of Industry. Self-Help. Movement for True Industrial Democracy. National Association for Freedom -

etc.

I think you might get something out of this book.

The book also contains an NUM Chief Executive, Terry Winters, who I now learn is 'really' Roger Windsor.

For some info on the book, Robin, try:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/2004/348/index.html?id=np10.htm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2004/03/13/bopeace10.xml

it seems obvious, as you say, who "General William Walters" really is - certainly Peace's description fits very much with what i know of Walter Walker.

I think it's a shame that "You Are The Quarry" lacks any really substantive material that tackles Englishness or indeed Northernness; a lot of the more personal lyrics only very obliquely tackle this sort of thing. There's no "Little Man, What Now?", "Late Night, Maudlin Street", "Every Day Is Like Sunday", "We'll Let You Know", say (I presume you're another "Viva Hate" fan, Robin?) on the new record. The single addresses Englishness (and his newly expressed Irish nationalism), but in a more literal way than he used to do it; he doesn't allow the full range of his ambivalence to come through. Morrissey today uses broader strokes, and there isn't in his quite the detail that there was. That's not to say I don't like a lot of the new album, but it seems more insular in its concerns; of course he was always of his own mental world, but the scope seems to have retracted.

I like to think that if anything will tickle Robin C's fancy, this might.

I've not read or even seen that quartet - I'd still like to hear more about it. Is it all about the Ripper, or does it range further / wider / etc? I think I have found it hard to believe that he wrote FOUR novels about one criminal.

I daresay that GB84 can only be fully understood in the context of the others; that it feels different if you approach it asd the thing he did after them, rather than as a miners' strike epic.

In fact, it strikes me now that some of the latest book *really* may only be understandable in light of the earlier ones - maybe he recycles characters, etc?

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,1162205,00.html

There's definitely some subtle commentary on the times and society, through the crimes and the process of journalism which take centre stage. Characters are certainly carried across, I hear... though the narrator from '1974', well, isn't, for obvious reasons for one who's read it. ;)

GB84 is definitely standalone from the quartet,but clearly of a similar style... i read that the author he is most compared to is james ellroy whose work i dont really know.

This fifth book sounds deeply odd and intriguing...

Anyway, as for Morrissey, how did I miss this??

One would be surprised just how commonplace such feelings probably are; all the goodwill America has generally had from the western world is constantly countered by bad will for the leaders who've led it in aberrant directions.

c.f. Morrissey's attributed comments; but if Bush did die, would the States and the world be lumbered with Cheney for four years...? Not exactly that different a prospect really. :)

I do think it's perfectly fair enough for people to show their true feelings about a past President's legacy... doing it so soon? Well, I'd generally say this wasn't fair kop, but something is surely needed to stem the tide of obituary praise that has built up and distorted Reagan's Presidency to the degree that it has.

I listened/skimmed through much of the album last night. My First Morrissey. I was surprised that I liked it a good deal, though I probably wasn't paying attention to much more than the production and the voice and a few jokes.

Whatever next?

I can't speak for the US fanbase (what's left of it, ha) but I would imagine so.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-1143699,00.html

that quote does make me sound like a bit of a dick.

i will write more about morrissey later.

Morrissey, 45, the singer once regarded as the most likely to induce inclinations to self-harm in his audience, is not only the star turn but also the ringmaster of this year’s Meltdown, an annual London arts festival. For the next 2Å weeks he is presenting his own programme of events at the festival on the capital’s South Bank. It kicked off on Friday with the first of his three performances.

Fans of the Smiths cheered as he sang songs from the band’s catalogue such as the hang-yourself-by-the-neck A Rush And a Push on stage at the Festival Hall in London before turning to his new album, You Are the Quarry.

The album has sold more than half a million copies worldwide in three weeks and is number two in the British charts. It is also number one in — where else? — Sweden, which has one of the world’s highest suicide rates, and number 11 in the United States, where he has become a cult figure among Hispanic audiences.

Morrissey’s reputation as a genuine British treasure has been restored in recent years. The boys’ club in his home town of Manchester, which was furious when he used its picture on the inside sleeve of the Smiths’ album The Queen Is Dead, has spent £25,000 in lottery cash establishing a room dedicated to the band as part of its centennial celebrations.

Even now he is never far from controversy. Last week he interrupted a gig in Dublin to announce that Ronald Reagan, the former US president, was dead — adding that he wished it was George W Bush instead.

He used his first television interview for 17 years, to criticise David Bowie, his predecessor as Meltdown host. “He was only relevant by accident,” Morrissey told Jonathan Ross on his chat show.

This week Morrissey gets to curate his own CD collection — endearingly entitled Songs to Save Your Life — on the cover of NME, Britain’s leading rock weekly.

His fans include Russell, the designer Stella McCartney, daughter of the former Beatle Sir Paul, Paddy Harverson, the Prince of Wales’s new spin doctor, and JK Rowling, the Harry Potter author, who admits to crying when the Smiths split in 1987.

Russell, whose debut novel The Wrong Boy is about a youth obsessed with writing to Morrissey, is turning it into a script for a television series. “I am a big admirer,” he said. “It would be lovely to have Morrissey’s presence in the series, be it in the flesh or the zeitgeist.”

This month’s Meltdown festival will include two concerts by the New York Dolls, whose British fan club Morrissey ran as a teenager; Nancy Sinatra, daughter of Frank; Sparks, the group fronted by oddball American brothers Ron and Russell Mael; Alan Bennett, the writer; and Jane Birkin, the British actress who became a singing star in France.

Fans were so keen to see Morrissey’s first London show for more than a decade that they were paying £100 to touts for tickets with a face value of £30. Once inside they chanted “Morrissey” repeatedly before a black backdrop fell to the floor of the stage, spelling out his name in wide letters.

A synthesised voice began to list various words and phrases such as “wife-beater”, “racist”, “neon Britain” and “Jimmy Tarbuck” (the comedian). As the words faded, the backdrop lit up in red and the band came on. Morrissey strolled on stage wearing a smoking jacket.

Toby Gee, 24, a mathematician from London, said: “Every Day Is Like Sunday was great. Morrissey’s voice has just got better, and that type of song sounds much greater now than it did 10 years ago.”

Glenn Carmichael, 49, a poet from Bristol, said: “It was great. I was expecting more Smiths-type songs but it was a good idea to move away from that as otherwise people would just keep comparing Morrissey to the old days. As he said, he has to move on from 20 years ago.”

And by the way, this may drag things a little O-T - but interestingly for me anyway! - but what was it about Cloughie's tenure at Leeds that might so fascinate David Peace? I admit to knowing very little about early 70s, pre-Revie (?) Leeds United... though of course, Blake Morrison's poem "The Ballad of the Yorkshire Ripper" includes report of the Leeds United fans at Elland Road chanting "Ripper 12 Police Nil" at the height of the YR killings...

I suspect that only Robin C can help us.

No, Clough was post-Revie. Revie brought Leeds up from the 2nd div in '64 (?) and a decade of success followed (or near-success - Leeds were continually on the verge of winning everything, they ultimately won rather little).

Sorry, back to more interesting stuff...

I assumed the journalist was directly referring to the 'hung by his pretty white neck' line.

What is all this Clough business about? I scrolled up but couldn't find it.

http://microsites.nme.com/thisweek/img/cover_190604_L.jpg

Morrissey - The Never Played Symphonies
The Killers - Jenny Was a Friend Of Mine
Gene - Fighting Fit
Sparks - Barbecutie
The Slits - Love and Romance
The Ordinary Boys - (Little) Bubble
New York Dolls - Vietnamese Baby
Franz Ferdinand - Jacqueline (live)
Raymonde - No one Can Hold A Candle To You
Ludus - Let Me Go Where My Pictures Go
Sack - Colorado Springs
Remma - Worry Young (demo version)
Pony Club - Single
Jobriath - Morning Star Ship
Damien Dempsey - Factories
The Libertines - Time For Heroes
Sir John Betjeman - A Child Ill

I'm afraid I don't think the song is good.

'IB, EH' is much better.

I say this despite not liking to say bad things about M.

Anyhow, the one thing: It reminds me of the Beatles, the harmonies in the 'chorus'. And I don't know why.

I guess that's similar to the record's story.

It would be interesting to think of the other things M. could have used as a pay-off: surprising things, twists, whatever. 'He killed hearts'. 'He stole his own heart - but from whom?'. 'He stole a lot of things, but never anyone's heart' (suitably scansioned, you understand) -- anything but: 'Oh, yes, and you know what this loveable rogue did? He stole all hearts away!' (repeat).

I was thinking for a minute: "I wish N. would post and back me up" - then I realized that he wouldn't back me up: he would say I was being weird and he didn't understand why I was saying what I was saying, and tell me to get over it, or something.

N. might back you up, too, but not today.

I wonder if he's stealing anything away, just now.

I expect so.

that would explain.