Sister Ray Genius or Wankery

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you know the 17 minute velvets masterpeice

― anthony, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

absolutely the best thing I've ever heard...really. I borrowed the album from a guy who only liked the VU because of Reed's Rock and Roll Animal (he wanted it back even though he didn't like it - bastard). I played Sister Ray constantly for the weekend I had it (must have bothered by Mum and Dad quite a bit) and wasn't tired of it in the least when I had to give the LP back. So I went out and bought it that week and continued to play it. Cale's organ playing is simply classic.

― philT, Sunday, 28 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It's allright. 'I'll be you mirror' is much better.

― Omar, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Rubbish : the least essential track on the least essential album. However, I wouldn't mind hearing the Quine versions (presumably without Cale).

― Dr. C, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Christ, I thought this said Sugar Ray when I first looked and thought "Finally ILM has gone too far."

― Tom, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

http://outland.cyberwar.com/~zoso/velvets/lyrics/sister_ray

Genius even without the music!

― fritz, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

RoX. WLWH is MOST essential album, and Sistah Ray is-ah most e-ah-sential track. The quine versions are actually sorta mellow compared to the many other sister ray bootlegs I have, including the yule era ones. In fact, one at least damn near does come off as wankery. But the raging intesity of the original is unmatched, the zen/hellfire crossbreeding stands alone. Stands with I Heard Her Call My Name as the culmination of the contradictory cale years.

― Sterling Clover, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

You can tell a true VU fan by how worn his copy of WLWH is. Sister Ray is remarkable in how dirty and totally illogical it is -- 'let's make a song where we turn up everything as loud as we can go... then find a way to make it louder.' There's a breakdown of structure that happens when the mics bleed that the band shouldn't recover from. That's when Cale left.

― JM, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sister Ray:genius and wankery. SR is sublime noise, an uncompromising,unrelenting challenge. It manages to be heavy without being dumb + macho because of Cale's excellent organ playing + the polymorphously perverse lyrics. But SR is also a big disappointment. It is the only serious extended piece recorded in the studio by the original Velvets line-up(European Son is just a filler) and the band failed to show what they were truly capable of. They were let down by a number of factors : the technical limitations of amplifiers + recording equipment, the indifference of producer Tom Wilson + the overbearing ego of Lou Reed whose distorted guitar drowns out the other players. According to Cale + Tucker SR wasn't supposed to sound like that. Imagine a 17 minute track of varying moods + textures where you can hear everything each musician is playing. A track that veers through pop, rhythm 'n' blues + avant-garde drones. A musical piece where influences such as Ornette Coleman, LaMonte Young, Booker T + African drumming are actually audible. In my opinion the only band who have recorded tracks similar to what SR could have been is Can.

― Mark Dixon, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

It is the only serious extended piece recorded in the studio by the original Velvets line-up

Angus MacLise isn't on this track.

It's not the longest song in the world, but it sure feels like it. Even Joy Division couldn't make it listenable. White Light is one of my favourite albums of all time, but inevitably everytime I try to listen to "Sister Ray," I think "Is it over yet?" only to see the CD display read it's at the three minute mark.

― Vic Funk, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wankery, but I've grown to love it. Wankery can be masterpiece IF it is very much fun.

― Maria, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Vic, thanks for spotting my deliberate mistake. When I mentioned the original Velvets line-up I was thinking about them as a recording group. As far as I know there are no existing recordings of Maclise drumming with the group in 1964-65. By the way,if you think the Joy Division version of Sister Ray is unlistenable try the version by Subway Sect + the Slits. That really is bad.

― Mark Dixon, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Didn't the LA band Dred Scot do some kind of side-long (vinyl) VU cover? I have the LP at home and the sides are called Partial Indulgence and Plenary Indulgence, if I remember correctly, but I can't remember what song(s) they covered. I do remember liking it, but that doesn't mean it's good.

― nickn, Monday, 29 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Come come now Dr C - "least essential album"??? I think that album sounds amazing. And "Sister Ray"... To quote Pitchshifter: "GE-NI- UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSS".

― Kodanshi, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

both, with intertwined qualities. It was worth overdoing, although it's a track that i rarely am in the mood for.

I still like the songs that fit more easily on mixtapes though.

― badger, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mark: Rhythm was the foundation of nearly everything Can did, whereas the Velvets are probably the most rhythmically limited big name "rock" band in history. I'm not bothered by the way it's mixed -- guitars are supposed to be louder than everything else. I'm not sure where you hear Ornette or African drumming(!) even implied in Sister Ray, and I'm pretty dubious of the Booker T. Only its challenge to the audience's endurance seems to have anything to do with LaMonte Young. I hear lots of Saint Vitus and Deep Purple in it myself; it's probably the closest to heavy metal the Velvets ever got (they got a lot closer to metal in SR than they ever got to punk, IMO). As organ-driven, sort-of heavy metal epics go, I like it better than "In A Gadda Da Vida" but not as much as the Made In Japan version of "Space Truckin".

― Kris, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dr Mix and the Remix make it listenable

― maryann, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

or laughable. Or laudable. Or laconic. Or lampooned. Only French people should be allowed to used vocoders.

― maryann, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

But maybe they just used lots of distortion. Do you know Duane?

― maryann, Tuesday, 30 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Kris- I realise that my comments about Sister Ray must have seemed somewhat odd to you so I'll try to explain my thinking. I don't know much about drumming but I remember reading an extended interview with Mo Tucker in "What Goes On" magazine about 10 years ago in which she explained that her primary rhythmic inspiration was the Bo Diddley beat which derives from a drum pattern used in West Africa. I personally find it hard to hear this African influence in much of her work(apart from on "Venus in Furs" which has a slow, tribal feel) but I know that many Bo Diddley + Velvets records have a similar trance- like, monotonous beat. Another r 'n' b reference point is Booker T + the M.G.s. To me SR sounds like a mutant version of "Green Onions". Incidentally, one sign of the Velvets respect for Booker T is the fact that they named a track after him. As for Ornette, well, in the "Uptight" book Reed says that he was listening to a lot of Coleman's records at the time "WLWH" was recorded. The guitar solo in "I Heard Her Call My Name" is free like a saxophone + SR seems to lose a sense of structure at certain points. LaMonte Young's influence is probably more evident in the harmonic experiments Cale conducted on the viola on tracks like "Heroin" but there is still a feeling in SR that sound is being pushed to the limit. My main point is that all of these influences could have been made prominent in SR but instead we are left with a very monomaniacal track. As for Can, well I wasn't saying that they sounded like the Velvets. Of course they are polar opposites rhythmically. I was saying that Can had a similar amount of disparate influences(in their case funk, Stockhausen, various rock bands) but unlike the Velvets they managed to find a balance in their music + created extended tracks that are consistently thrilling.

― Mark Dixon, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I thought it was pretty great at one point. I think it might just have been because I was too cool for Iron Butterfly but I still wanted a long organ rock jam and what else was there? I put it on today and it didn't do a whole lot although the start (the verses) is great with that great distortion, crunchy organ, and Sterling Morrison's solo. I was reminded again of how hokey and hillbilly the Velvets really were (which wasn't always a bad thing but). I play "In a Gadda da Vida" more often these days.

Kris: I haven't heard that version of "Space Truckin." What's it like? Where do you find it?

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I don't have time to elaborate, but I don't find the Velvets' rhythm at all limited, any more than I find Count Basie's rhythm limited. They swing, they play counterbeats (the one-two-three-four was something they played off of), Lou's vocal improvisations came out of doo-wop, the breaking down of syllables into rhythm, etc. The Velvets rhythm is closer to Berry than to Diddley, but I think that from Diddley (and from the Yardbirds rave-ups) they got the idea of vamping on one or two chords. I think a lot of the Velvets sound was anticipated by the Yardbirds, and the Velvets are just a more extreme version of a lot of the high-school garage rock (Blues Magoos, Count Five, Chocolate Watchband) then current. I vote genius, but the genius was an era's genius not just a band's.

― Frank Kogan, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

but Frank, couldn't you argue that every era has its own inherent genius - and the best artists of each era are always to some degree conduits/lightning rods/bedpans for their era's genius - but its the artist's individual genius that sets them apart from the chocolate watchbands and standells of their day?

― fritz, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sundar: it's on the live album "Made In Japan" (I found it on audiogalaxy, but I think the album's in print. The double LP is often in the dollar bins). It's basically a 20 minute extended jam on Space Truckin, mostly showcasing Lord's organ. It's pretty crazy, verging into almost Pere Ubu-does-boogie territory at times.

― Kris, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Mark wrote: Mo Tucker in "What Goes On" magazine about 10 years ago in which she explained that her primary rhythmic inspiration was the Bo Diddley beat which derives from a drum pattern used in West Africa. I personally find it hard to hear this African influence in much of her work.
I remember seeing that article - (I still have it somewhere) I think the Bo Diddley beat is very obvious in Moe's solo work. With the Velvets, it may be Lou's will over Moe's.

― Dave225, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Dave225-I heard some of Tucker's solo records on the radio in the late 80s but my recollection of them is so vague that I can't comment on them. My opinions above just referred to the Velvets.Following on from what Frank was saying,two other precursors of the Velvets were the Kinks + the Who. An important contemporary was Jimi Hendrix(but unlike the VU his musical extensions often involved studio trickery.)

― Mark Dixon, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Infidels! Heathens! A pox on all of you! It is the VELVET UNDERGROUND!!! They invented dronepop, you know! Sister Ray is not up for debate! Have you got no soul? ::sputters:: Next you'll be telling me that Spacemen3 were drug-addled middle class art school wastrels. Just stop.

― kate, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Um, Kate, I don't want to come off as if I'm missing your irony (tell me you're being ironic, please), but, oh hell, I'm a pedant at heart. "Sister Ray" is in my Top 100, and I like it more than anything ever by the Yardbirds (for instance). But "Sister Ray" is basically a Yardbirds rave-up. The Velvets did not invent drone pop. A lot of the moves on White Light/White Heat come right off of Yardbirds and Kinks albums (check out the Kinks' version of "Milk Cow Blues Boogie," the riff of which was taken from James Burton's guitar riff on the Ricky Nelson version).

And then it's hard not to hear Dylan (and, through Dylan, Appalachian) drones in stuff like "Black Angel's Death Song."

Fritz, you're right of course, though I'd say that (especially) the Chocolate Watchband were almost up there with the Velvets in quality (the Watchband's Rhino best-of is far more consistently good than the LPs I've heard of the Electric Prunes, Seeds, Sam the Sham, and so forth).

― Frank Kogan, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Sucks. I like most of their other noisier numbers but I hate Sister Ray. And the Joy Division cover is just as awful. Though, as Chuck Eddy once said, Ian Curtis made his one and only joke ever ("You should hear our version of Louie, Louie") at the end of that performance.

― DeRayMi, Tuesday, 6 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

six months pass...

absolute shite

― DarrenS, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

Mark Dixon: "Imagine a 17 minute track of varying moods + textures where you can hear everything each musician is playing. A track that veers through pop, rhythm 'n' blues + avant-garde drones. A musical piece where influences such as Ornette Coleman, LaMonte Young, Booker T + African drumming are actually audible. In my opinion the only band who have recorded tracks similar to what SR could have been is Can."

Get thee Quine Basement Tapes NOW!! Three (count 'em) versions of Sister Ray as nature originally intended. Exquisite.

― cecil's new piece, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

BTW, "Sister Ray" is really nice if you step back and treat it as a slowly shifting drone. It is great, I was just giving it a hard time.

― sundar subramanian, Wednesday, 8 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

every time I've seen Moe Tucker live she's played a Bo Diddley, and every time there are a few people in the crowd who'll think it's a Velvets song until the lyrics kick in.

― J Blount, Thursday, 9 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

One of their best.

― Joe, Thursday, 9 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-three years ago)

three years pass...

Pointless shit.

― The Brainwasher (Twilight), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:54 (twenty years ago)

Kim to thread!

― Sundar (sundar), Friday, 16 September 2005 17:57 (twenty years ago)

one month passes...

This is both funny and stupid.
http://www.loureed.com/new/news/video/lawrence-welk-velvet-underground.wmv

made me laugh, anyway...

― D.I.Y. U.N.K.L.E. (dave225.3), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

By the way,if you think the Joy Division version of Sister Ray is unlistenable...

Both Joy Division and New Order seem to use the song as an excuse to play whatever they want and call it "Sister Ray".

― Edward Bax (EdBax), Tuesday, 15 November 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

i didn't really 'get' the velvet underground until i finally heard WL/WH last year. i've got the attention span of a kitten, and i've never been bored during this song. utterly fantastic, in my top 5, as classic as the sun sessions, etc.

the only track on the whole album i get bored with is "the gift," which sounds amazing the first 3 or 4 times you hear it but stands up to repeated listening about as badly as most spoken-word stuff.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Wednesday, 16 November 2005 07:18 (twenty years ago)

this thread isn't nearly lopsided enough...

i'll go w/ both, too. because it IS the song that made me rethink my view on the VU. i'd had Nico for a long time, then after avoiding this song for a long time, i finally sat down w/ it, headphones, a six pack and new pack of smokes. by the end of the song, 1/2 the cigs were gone, 2/3 the six pack, and i couldn't make it any louder without hurting myself (which i still managed to do). i never heard that song the same after.
it's too much/and not enough at the same time. everything is going everywhere and then it even manages to sound brittle while pummeling yr skull! the breakdown kills me everytime.
side note- in a "punk" bar one night heard this song twice in a row. people were NOT pleased but i didn't do it! i swear!!!

btw- the Quine versions are pretty damned great!!! the build-up of it.

― eedd, Wednesday, 16 November 2005 12:28 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...

Revive!

The original "Sister Ray" is pure awesomeness. Not really too artsy or inhumanly great, just really fun to rock out to. It may be excessive and quite noisy for the early 1960's, it is oh so fun to just let loose to. And the creepy parts where Reed is stuttering out the lyrics, barking things like "Move it along!" are just so perfect.

"IIIIIIIIII'm searchin' for my maaaaaaaaiiiiiinliiine, cooooouuuuuldn't hit it siiiiiiiiiiiiiidewaaaaays..."

― J.H. Malerman (xada_hgla), Friday, 6 October 2006 01:26 (nineteen years ago)

Sister Ray makes me feel more alive than any other song I've ever heard. It's so exuberant. I think the production (or lack thereof) is the single most important aspect of the song. The mic bleeding, all signals in the red, and the sound of that organ. Lots of r&b in this song, even if it's bastardized beyond recognition.

― Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Friday, 6 October 2006 01:40 (nineteen years ago)

It may be excessive and quite noisy for the early 1960's

HI DERE 1968!

― Arno Oliver Bedder (noodle vague), Friday, 6 October 2006 01:40 (nineteen years ago)

genius, and decidedly unwanky for what it is. if i ever said a bad word about it, i apologize.

― louise jaguar (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 6 October 2006 01:56 (nineteen years ago)

disparaging "sister ray" is short bus shit of the highest (lowest?) order

― mango selassie (teenagequiet), Friday, 6 October 2006 03:00 (nineteen years ago)

Genius. You can even hear the point from which Ira Kaplan learnt to play keyboards.

― I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit (I say we take off and nuke the), Friday, 6 October 2006 04:02 (nineteen years ago)

Even if you don't like it, isn't it really too brutal to be called "wanky?"

That is Sterling's guitar in the left channel, yes? Would imagine so because that's the one doing the little fills in between lines of the verses at the beginning. Anyway, at various points the soloing maybe stops or loses intensity or something but that rhythm playing is still so gnarly. There's really not a bad moment throughout.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 October 2006 04:15 (nineteen years ago)

I love this song mainly because even the least adventurous jukeboxes in America will usually have some Velvet Underground greatest hits CD in there somewhere, and "Sister Ray" will be on this CD always, and there's not a better feeling than getting drunk, dropping in a quarter to subject an entire bar to 17 minutes of "Sister Ray".. then leaving.

― 0xDOX0RNUTX0RX0RSDABITFIELDXOR^0xDEADBEEFDEADBEEF00001 (donut), Friday, 6 October 2006 05:16 (nineteen years ago)

In the same way as seeing *rn makes you want to go have *ex,

People talking about Sister Ray makes me want to put it on and turn it up!

(Especially the mono verve LP version! Rargh!)

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 6 October 2006 07:34 (nineteen years ago)

Have we done the obligatory it's-a-perfectly-decent-record-shop-albeit-with-too-many-DVDs-at-the-front gag yet?

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 6 October 2006 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

Oh do they have too many DVDs at the front now?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 6 October 2006 08:31 (nineteen years ago)

More DVDs, not quite as many CDs as the shop had when it was Selectadisc.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 6 October 2006 09:29 (nineteen years ago)

Wankery, I always skip this, also "European Son".

― zeus (zeus), Friday, 6 October 2006 10:20 (nineteen years ago)

I was right upthread - the Quine versions ARE the biz.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 6 October 2006 10:23 (nineteen years ago)

The Quine versions are fabulous (look, no John Cale folks!) but the original is a different thing altogether, if you skip this track you're nuts

― TS: Mick Ralphs v. Ariel Bender (Dada), Friday, 6 October 2006 10:25 (nineteen years ago)

If you skip this track, you end the album!

Alternate version: Why put this album on and skip "Sister Ray"? Surely that's the reason to play it?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 6 October 2006 11:09 (nineteen years ago)

There aren't exactly any Geir-friendly wistful melodic ballads on White Light/White Heat, it has to be said, unless you count "Here She Comes Now."

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 6 October 2006 11:11 (nineteen years ago)

It may be excessive and quite noisy for the early 1960's
HI DERE 1968!

For excess and noise reference, check out Bo Diddley's Beach Party. Recorded in 1963, and sounds just as in-the-red as Sister Ray.

― Dr. Alicia D. Titsovich (sexyDancer), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:32 (nineteen years ago)

Lou Reed = humungous Bo Diddley fan

― Mike Giggler (Dada), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:36 (nineteen years ago)

just thinking about this song makes me wanna do some speed.

― edde (edde), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:39 (nineteen years ago)

Genius Through Wankery

― Joe (Joe), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:46 (nineteen years ago)

it's really sad what Lou Reed has become. his voice actually sounded cool back then. what's with his warbling thing nowadays?

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:53 (nineteen years ago)

Nowadays? He's been doing that since the eighties, I'd say.

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:55 (nineteen years ago)

It's all those Obetrols.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 6 October 2006 13:57 (nineteen years ago)

Sister Ray is the apex of Rock n Roll.

― Fetchboy (Felcher), Friday, 6 October 2006 14:22 (nineteen years ago)

If you skip this track, you end the album!
Alternate version: Why put this album on and skip "Sister Ray"? Surely that's the reason to play it?
-- mark grout (mark.grou...), October 6th, 2006.

Shit, you're right. I know, this is monumental ignorance, but I mixed up 'Sister Ray' with 'Heroin' (which IS a wankfest after all). Never been a fan of the "noisy" Velvet Underground though, that's why I don't know WLWH very much. I truly feel ashamed.

― zeus (zeus), Friday, 6 October 2006 17:19 (nineteen years ago)

Best bass playing ever on anything ever in the whole world ever.

― lexurian (lexurian), Friday, 6 October 2006 17:47 (nineteen years ago)

How can you tell?

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 October 2006 17:59 (nineteen years ago)

"The gift" is better. :P

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 6 October 2006 19:51 (nineteen years ago)

Is there in fact a bass on that track?

― Ruud Comes to Haarvest (Ken L), Friday, 6 October 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

"Heroin" is a wankfest?

― deej.. (deej..), Friday, 6 October 2006 19:58 (nineteen years ago)

pretty sure it's just cale on the organ, actually.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 6 October 2006 20:12 (nineteen years ago)

Yep, no bass, just organ.

― NoTimeBeforeTime (Barry Bruner), Friday, 6 October 2006 22:26 (nineteen years ago)

I don't like this song as much as I do few other songs on WL/WH and a bunch of Velvets songs in general, but it's still really awesome.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 6 October 2006 22:31 (nineteen years ago)

Wankery, I always skip this, also "European Son".

european son owns u, looozer

― am0n (am0n), Friday, 6 October 2006 22:32 (nineteen years ago)

i'm currently in love with the version of "sister ray" from the guitar amp tape. sure, doug yule displays zero understanding of john cale's organ part, but you barely have to hear it.

― Godfrzej Ljang (godfrzej), Saturday, 7 October 2006 00:14 (nineteen years ago)

It was used over the closing credits of something I saw recently -- Brick? Anyway, completely classic.

― The Bearnaise-Stain Bears (Rock Hardy), Saturday, 7 October 2006 00:29 (nineteen years ago)

Genius. The only VU you will ever need. The only excuse for Mr. Reed's existence. Covers by the incomparable Dr. Mix and the Remix and Suicide are both entirely perfect in their ways.

― Soukesian (Soukesian), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:00 (nineteen years ago)

It's wankery and I'm a huge VU fan. Thanks for asking. Although the Joy Division cover is definitely worse.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:03 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, it kicks in right as the last shot of Brick cuts to black.

― milo z (mlp), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:04 (nineteen years ago)

Having read upthread, though I do believe Donut has a point.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:06 (nineteen years ago)

Dr. C's got me worried about the Quine versions. Must pull that out.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:09 (nineteen years ago)

Jesus couldn't some engineer or producer cleaned this Quine shit up more though? The equalizer on my receiver is pretty limited in what it can do for this stuff.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:16 (nineteen years ago)

incomparable Dr. Mix

somebody has that record?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:22 (nineteen years ago)

xpost

Still, Dr. C is right, Sister Ray gets really interestingly funky and different on the second Quine CD at about 11 min. 30 sec. Not like other Sister Rays.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:25 (nineteen years ago)

The version on the first Quine CD, however, makes me feel like I'm a cell in Spacemen 3's brains. This is a compliment.

― John Cougar Mellencamp sucks and you know it (Bimble...), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:31 (nineteen years ago)

Dood the version on the album is an incredibly killer jam.

― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:36 (nineteen years ago)

I'm kind of glad I never contributed to this thread earlier because I probably would've tried to be a contrarian and whined "long boring feh". If it was 3 minutes it'd probably be my favorite rock song of the late '60s, possibly, but if it was 3 minutes it'd also kind of ruin the point.

― nate p. (natepatrin), Saturday, 7 October 2006 01:45 (nineteen years ago)

miccio to thread, amirite?

― Fetchboy (Felcher), Saturday, 7 October 2006 08:13 (nineteen years ago)

TS: "Sister Ray" VS "Dark Star", ying 'n yang as they useta say

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Saturday, 7 October 2006 10:09 (nineteen years ago)

The very worst song ever recorded, methinks.

― Bumblepuppy (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Sunday, 8 October 2006 19:39 (nineteen years ago)

That login name really makes me trust your opinion.

― The Bearnaise-Stain Bears (Rock Hardy), Sunday, 8 October 2006 20:29 (nineteen years ago)

Harrumph.

― Bumblepuppy (Horbgorbling Slubberdegullion), Sunday, 8 October 2006 20:48 (nineteen years ago)

one year passes...

R.I.P. legendary London record store Sister Ray

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/aug/01/sister.ray.goes.into.administration

― StanM, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 18:38 (seventeen years ago)

That shop is only okay

― I know, right?, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 18:40 (seventeen years ago)

oh
ok

― StanM, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 18:42 (seventeen years ago)

i only liked this for 'i said i couldnt hit it sideways'

― deeznuts, Tuesday, 5 August 2008 18:44 (seventeen years ago)

one month passes...

last post is on my birthday. AWESOMES!

― Drugs A. Money, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 22:38 (seventeen years ago)

also, whoever brought up Brick is OTM!

Sister Ray closing Brick >>>>> Sister Ray closing WL/WH.

― Drugs A. Money, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 22:39 (seventeen years ago)

Its genius.

The WLWH version - genius
The Quine versions - genius

There's a comment above that even Joy Division couldn't save it. I'd probably have agreed based on the still version, but there's a tiny snippet on the Joy Division film that seems to be them doing it and its genius, Ians doing that 'limbering up to start the dance' thing that always looked spookier than the full dance and the band are doing their slabs of noise thing (think Dead Souls intro), which sounds like Yoo Doo Right versus The End. (erm, except in a good way)

― Sandy Blair, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 23:09 (seventeen years ago)

yeah, genius. wtf people? i love every version i've heard of this song. Quine versions are awesome, Boston Tea Party versions are awesome, End of Cole Ave. version is awesome. Lou Reed & the Tots doing it in 72 is awesome!! seek out the recently surfaced "debut performance" of sister ray from that gymnasium bootleg if you haven't already. eeeeAHHHHHHGHHHHHhhhh. thought it was a bummer that the reunited velvets didn't have the cajones to tackle this in 92 ...

― tylerw, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 23:15 (seventeen years ago)

My top pick for play on digital jukeboxes.

― Pillbox, Wednesday, 24 September 2008 23:23 (seventeen years ago)

You can tell a true VU fan by how worn his copy of WLWH is.

this.

― sleeve, Thursday, 25 September 2008 01:39 (seventeen years ago)

What if said "fan" bought a used, secondhand copy to appear a true fan?

― ilxor, Thursday, 25 September 2008 02:43 (seventeen years ago)

Funny but I was playing Pharoah Sanders' "Izipho Zam" album last night and the track "Balance" reminded me of "Sister Ray"!

― Tom D is a rattly old puffin, who remembers ILX in the days when... (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 September 2008 08:59 (seventeen years ago)

Even by zonked-out '69 Pharaoh standards that one is pretty extreme to be sure. I like how Sharrock pretty much drowns everyone else out by the end (bah it fades out!).

― LBC's Steve Allen good morning I'm afraid (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:09 (seventeen years ago)

Bits of Sharrock's playing reminded me of that weird bassy drone thing Lou does on "Sister Ray". Yeah, fuck, why did they fade it out?!??! Even the title track is too short and it's like 28 minutes or something!

Back to "Sister Ray", I first heard this at the end of a tape my sister had of her boyfriend's group. It had some tracks from "Raw Power" and then "Sister Ray". I had no idea what any of this stuff was but I couldn't work out what on earth "Sister Ray" was.

― Tom D is a rattly old puffin, who remembers ILX in the days when... (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:15 (seventeen years ago)

never liked this so much, either the velvets or JD version. I Heard Her Call My Name and What Goes On far
better, especially the live 1969 version of the latter.

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:25 (seventeen years ago)

Dead Souls intro

Best JD moment ever. This week.

― Ned Trifle II, Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:29 (seventeen years ago)

17 minutes of pointless wankery.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:40 (seventeen years ago)

Geir Hongro = 48 years of pointless wankery

― Tom D is a rattly old puffin, who remembers ILX in the days when... (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:42 (seventeen years ago)

ROFFLES!

― LBC's Steve Allen good morning I'm afraid (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 25 September 2008 09:43 (seventeen years ago)

Fucking win!

― ilxor, Friday, 26 September 2008 13:32 (seventeen years ago)

I always found the Ian Curtis joke about Louie Louie surprisingly focused.
At least to me, Sister Ray sounds exactly like that, the perfect combination of pure fun, two-chords early rock n roll and a Day of Niagara-like sonic assault. There's nothing wanky or arty about it: its just the sound of the most spastic section of Surfin' Bird, only 18 minutes long.
And I love also JD's blissfully inept cover, by the way.

― Marco Damiani, Saturday, 27 September 2008 09:25 (seventeen years ago)

Exactly, it's total garage rock gone mentalist

― Tom D Gives You the Big Reassure (Tom D.), Saturday, 27 September 2008 11:05 (seventeen years ago)

Genius, epoch-making track.

― Vision, Saturday, 27 September 2008 11:26 (seventeen years ago)

I think the only good version I ever heard of this song was some New Order live bootleg. Wankery, indeed. Dr. C said upthread it was "the least essential track on the least essential album" and I'd also agree with that.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Saturday, 27 September 2008 12:30 (seventeen years ago)

The version on the Dr. Mix and The Remix album slays, This is a covers project by members of Metal Urbain, with an even more brutal drum machine and even more terrifying layers of distorted guitar. And no wankery whatsover.

― Soukesian, Saturday, 27 September 2008 13:14 (seventeen years ago)

I can't believe people prefer Cale-less Sister Ray, second to the relentless rockin groove the organ is where so much of this song's release comes for me.

― RabiesAngentleman, Saturday, 27 September 2008 13:40 (seventeen years ago)

My top pick for play on digital jukeboxes.

I wish you hadn't put that idea into my head.

― sad man in him room (milo z), Saturday, 27 September 2008 16:58 (seventeen years ago)

See I say this song suxxors and yet the Velvets' Gymnasium version is in my ears and if you think I'm going to turn it off anytime soon, ho ho ho...don't think so.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 06:32 (seventeen years ago)

I feel sorry for any person who doesn't appreciate this track. You poor souls!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 08:53 (seventeen years ago)

I find even "Heroin" and "Venus In Furs" insufferable. "Sister Ray" is the same, only worse, and longer lasting.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:16 (seventeen years ago)

So what DO you like by them, Geir?

― Bimble, Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:18 (seventeen years ago)

Come on, I'm not expecting you to like it, Geir!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:21 (seventeen years ago)

There's plenty of VU songs Geir could like!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:21 (seventeen years ago)

So what DO you like by them, Geir?

"Sunday Morning", "Candy Says", "Pale Blue Eyes" and "Who Loves The Sun" are all marvellous songs. When Velvets sounded like that, they were great.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:41 (seventeen years ago)

What about "New Age"? That's sounds like it could be your kind of song, Geir.

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 09:44 (seventeen years ago)

Geir likes the boring wimpy ones. Ho hum.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:04 (seventeen years ago)

You'd like "Squeeze" by the Velvet Underground, I'd guess.

― Mark G, Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:08 (seventeen years ago)

Nobody likes that

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:09 (seventeen years ago)

Thank God Squeeze never did a song called "Velvet Underground."

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:10 (seventeen years ago)

Jonathan Richman did!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:11 (seventeen years ago)

It's full of nice tunes sung by a nice bloke. And Ian Paice on drums...

― Mark G, Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:11 (seventeen years ago)

It's just not very good though

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:12 (seventeen years ago)

I'm sure Geir thinks that "Sister Ray" would be greatly improved if Cale's amelodic rhythm dominate organ were replaced by Jools Holland's boogie woogie piano magic. And maybe remove old miseryguts Lou Reed's vocals and replace with Ruby Turner's Soulful Passionate And Honest Wailing.

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:13 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah, actually I'm really glad Squeeze never did a song called "Velvet Underground", thanks.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:19 (seventeen years ago)

Although their first record was produced by John Cale!

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:24 (seventeen years ago)

.. who wasn't on Squeeze the album.

― Mark G, Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:26 (seventeen years ago)

Good lord, sometimes I think 45% of the universe was produced by John Cale.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:27 (seventeen years ago)

45% of first albums have been produced by John Cale!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:28 (seventeen years ago)

... Stooges, Patti, Squeeze, Happy Mondays...

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:29 (seventeen years ago)

Yes! Haha, that's kinda what I was trying to get at about the 45% of first albums being produced by him. I am on a paid internet thing now where I can't adequately quote other people's posts, soz.

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 11:32 (seventeen years ago)

Jennifer Warnes as well...

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 12:34 (seventeen years ago)

I liked Brick when I saw it, closing it w/this put it over the top and I was all :D :D :D

For what it's worth I made it a point to listen to this again yesterday and it didn't appeal to me as much as it did the first time.

― vast variety of steens where we get our HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:01 (seventeen years ago)

"God this is so long"

― vast variety of steens where we get our HOOS (BIG HOOS aka the steendriver), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:01 (seventeen years ago)

Genius genius genius. It'd be bettered tho by "I heard Her..." if Lou hadn't fucked up the mix

xpost IT IS NOT LONG, DRINK A BEER

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:03 (seventeen years ago)

Debatable that Lou "fucked up" the mix

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:05 (seventeen years ago)

It's like aggressive ambient music in a way, you get a bit drunk with a friend and stick this on and occasionally you both look up and go "oh man!" etc, otherwise you just talk (this is obv only ONE way to take it, I used to listen to the whole thing w eyes closed as a 13 yr old and kinda loved it)

xpost is that debated? His guitar's the best thing on the song, but it'd be nice to have it backed up more.

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:06 (seventeen years ago)

"Kinda loved it" isn't true really, I just did love it. There's so much to listen to. Kinda wish I still had the time or energy to do that kinda thing now.

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:09 (seventeen years ago)

His guitar's the best thing on the song, but it'd be nice to have it backed up more.

u mad - the way the guitar FLATTENS everything else on the track every time it comes in is GENIUS

― graft Veronica's limbless torso to the 'paalmino' pony called Juno (stevie), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:12 (seventeen years ago)

Except when it's flattened by Cale's organ, which is pretty much all the way through the track.

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:26 (seventeen years ago)

"I Heard Her Call My Name" not "Sister Ray"

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:28 (seventeen years ago)

It's genius for the first couple seconds, ABSOLUTELY! It's like a blitzkreig! But when he keeps soloing I wish there was more of a rhythm section that I could hear him playing with/against. Marcello I don't hear too much organ on I Heard Her Call My Name

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:29 (seventeen years ago)

xpost OBV

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:30 (seventeen years ago)

But when he keeps soloing I wish there was more of a rhythm section that I could hear him playing with/against

Remix it! I did! Bit of editing software and hey presto!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:32 (seventeen years ago)

How's it sound?

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:33 (seventeen years ago)

Great!

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:33 (seventeen years ago)

Yeah but better? I always wanted that track to be like SR in miniature, kinda, just Lou vs. Everyone. Fuck I should just try and do it myself, I guess.

― Niles Caulder, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:35 (seventeen years ago)

It's fun. I think the guitar is all in the centre of the stereo mix so just bung up the other edges of the mix, the rhythm guitar really comes through

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:37 (seventeen years ago)

I have the mono LP.

― Mark G, Thursday, 2 October 2008 13:51 (seventeen years ago)

What, Formica Blues?

― It's 10.00 and I'm Huw Edwards. I don't write this stuff. (Marcello Carlin), Thursday, 2 October 2008 14:00 (seventeen years ago)

Showoff (xp)

― Tom D says "...get them fuckin' up here, ya fuckin' walloper!" (Tom D.), Thursday, 2 October 2008 14:00 (seventeen years ago)

I'm sure Geir thinks that "Sister Ray" would be greatly improved if Cale's amelodic rhythm dominate organ were replaced by Jools Holland's boogie woogie piano magic. And maybe remove old miseryguts Lou Reed's vocals and replace with Ruby Turner's Soulful Passionate And Honest Wailing.

There is nothing that could have saved "Sister Ray". Maybe the rest of the album, but not that one. John Cale leaving after that album was good for their music, though, most of the tracks on the last two albums are either wonderfully melodic or at least completely OK.

― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 2 October 2008 17:16 (seventeen years ago)

Argh! That freaking Jennifer Warnes album Cale produced! Damnit, I never found that thing and I wanted it really bad about a year ago. If you know how to get it, email a Bimble. OKTHXBYE

― The More You Live The Faster You Will Die (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Thursday, 2 October 2008 23:19 (seventeen years ago)

awesome

― cankles, Friday, 3 October 2008 00:28 (seventeen years ago)

There is nothing that could have saved Geir Hongro. Maybe the rest of the world, but not that one. Cutting his ears off was good for music, though.

― Checking My French, Checking-Checking My French (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 3 October 2008 11:06 (seventeen years ago)

"Geir had intuitively grasped every nook and cranny of her psyche- she needed him, he wasn't there."

― Retrato Em Redd E Blecch (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 October 2008 13:39 (seventeen years ago)

"too busy s[CONTROVERSIAL MOD EDIT]ing dong"

― Mark G, Friday, 3 October 2008 13:42 (seventeen years ago)

I find it naive in the extreme that people try to judge VU in terms of "melody". It's another approach, you have to try to hit it sideways (even if you can't). Otherwise, just stick to Mel Torme.

― Vision, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:13 (seventeen years ago)

this song kicks ass btw

― joe 40oz (deej), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:46 (seventeen years ago)

Mel Torme liked to recognise the tune, that's true.

― Checking My French, Checking-Checking My French (Marcello Carlin), Friday, 3 October 2008 14:49 (seventeen years ago)

Right:

― Mark G, Friday, 3 October 2008 14:53 (seventeen years ago)

eleven years pass...

Couldn’t hit it sideways

― Two Little Hit Parades (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 02:21 (five years ago)

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/812I-kp8SSL._SL1500_.jpg

― “Pizza House!” (morrisp), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 02:30 (five years ago)

Lol

― Two Little Hit Parades (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 02:37 (five years ago)

shoots him down dead on the floor
oh, don’t you know you shouldn’t do that
don’t you know, you’ll stain the carpet?

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 02:52 (five years ago)

I originally was going to post that line.

― Two Little Hit Parades (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 03:13 (five years ago)

That last line anyway

― Two Little Hit Parades (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 03:13 (five years ago)

Did someone go on a little Velvets binge last night?

I haven't heard this song in years, but like, literally every line of it is burned into my psyche in a way that I can never get out ("wants to know a way to earn a dooooll-lar").

Why have I always been so fascinated by heavy drugs music, when I don't actually *like* drugs?

― Extractor Fan (Branwell with an N), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 07:22 (five years ago)

Ha, how did you guess?

― Hit It And Quit It Sideways (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 2 September 2020 14:13 (five years ago)

a killer groove surely.
exemplary investigation of a repetitive riff.
Gets really down for a track without a bass, or at least the WL/WH version doesn't since Cale is on keyboard and Sterling is on guitar.
Gymnasium is the version without a keyboard isn't it? so is Cale playing bass as he would tend to when not playing viola or keyboard?
I know one version from around then lacks keyboard and been a while since I listened to the live set.

Yule era versions do something different with it, less relentless assault.

― Stevolende, Wednesday, 2 September 2020 21:31 (five years ago)

four years pass...

a little bootleg comp i put together — https://doomandgloomfromthetomb.tumblr.com/post/770395543451140096/sister-ray-in-the-70s-something-special-to-close

Lou's solo Sister Rays, 1972-1980

― tylerw, Friday, 20 December 2024 23:28 (one year ago)

Wow, I had no idea he actually did "Sister Ray" in the 70s!

― Please play Lou Reed's irritating guitar sounds (Tom D.), Friday, 20 December 2024 23:34 (one year ago)

he did! wasn't brought out of storage all that often but it was cool / weird when it happened.

― tylerw, Friday, 20 December 2024 23:39 (one year ago)

This is what I call an unbeatable Christmas present.

― Please play Lou Reed's irritating guitar sounds (Tom D.), Friday, 20 December 2024 23:42 (one year ago)

So good. Thanks for putting this together.

― bbq, Friday, 20 December 2024 23:51 (one year ago)

Rad!!

― brimstead, Saturday, 21 December 2024 00:17 (one year ago)

thanks, Tyler! super rad!

― sknybrg, Saturday, 21 December 2024 00:50 (one year ago)

thanks for this! never heard a lou solo "sister ray" i liked by i'm always ready to give more a try :)

― Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 21 December 2024 05:49 (one year ago)

I love the Lou picture you’ve chosen for this

― I am using your worlds, Saturday, 21 December 2024 08:34 (one year ago)

Is it from a government Don't Do Amphetamines campaign?

― Please play Lou Reed's irritating guitar sounds (Tom D.), Saturday, 21 December 2024 09:24 (one year ago)

I always think of this as the ur example of Lou on amphetamines show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRG-arffGWA

― bbq, Saturday, 21 December 2024 11:30 (one year ago)

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