Hazey Jane Talks To The Pinefox

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Doubtless there are other Nick Drake threads. I care not - I am starting another.

I finally (?) bought Bryter Later the other day. I have one or two views on it. Veterans may find them clapped out. Never mind.

I am going to start by asking: why is the 'Introduction', which is cut from the same cloth as 'Hazey Jane I', followed by 'Hazey Jane II'?

My initial reaction was that it was a woeful misjudgment, not going straight into 'Hazey Jane I'. I have half a mind to assert that someone must have mixed up the numbers and programmed the LP wrong.

Perhaps this is not the place to talk about my historic inability to remember which is 'I' and which 'II', or about how dubious I am, really, about the practice of giving two songs virtually the same title.

― the pinefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the transition, so it never occurred to me how well Hazey Jane I and Introduction would segue.. but I guess you're right. Hazey Jane II, though, greeeaat song - really works as an opener.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:25 (twenty-one years ago)

B-b-but ... does it?

And if it's such a great opener, why does it need to be preceded by ... by a... by an... 'Introduction'??

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Introduction" is when you go to get popcorn so you can sit down and enjoy "Hazey Jane II"

I think there's something really effective about the *really beautiful overture* *pause* => *jaunty pop number with outrageous horns* combination. It's...dramatic

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 23 April 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

God, who cares pinefox?

― metalmickey, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I am partly won over by Sonny's claim.

I think I still think 'Hazey Jane I' would be better in that spot.

Perhaps I am wrong.

Why do they both have the same title anyway?

Except that one is called 'I' and the other is... 'II'. Or, the other way around.

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Sonny A is right about the overture -> jaunty thing.

I don't know why the numbering is that way around. Maybe he wrote Hazey Jane I first. To be honest, it immediately makes the pairing look more intriguing, to me. Maybe I fall for cheap tricks.

Introduction -> Hazey Jane I would have been too one note melancholic for me. One note melacholy is fine if it's across a whole album, but when you've got jauntiness to come, it would seem poor sequencing.

Presumably it's about the same woman, fictional or real. To go from sad -> upbeat would seem a little trite, unless you had been taken on a journey that led to such a change of mood. It's more natural the other way around.

If they were songs in a compilaton, the compilation would be fine.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

If I am not mistaken, the compilation Way To Blue goes: Introduction --> Hazey Jane I --> Hazey Jane II!!

― the blissfox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Is HJI really Melancholic? Or just Romantic?

― the blissfox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm.

'Natural'!

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

To me, yes. Optimism -> wistfulness seems like the right progression for a romantic album. You are perhaps right that 'melancholic' is not quite the word for HJ I. It depends how one listens to it.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely

Wistfulness --> Wistfulness = Natural

(I think I have trumped you at last)

― the pinefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't know we were playing Trumpo. I'm not sure of the rules, but too much wistfulness is a poor pudding indeed.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Was it a Whist joke?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Alas, no, nothing so punny.

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely 'Trumps' not 'Trumpo'?

― the bluefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I just liked the sound of 'Trumpo', really.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

You mean you made it up?

That was creative of you.

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 15:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I am surprised this thread has not attracted any rougher trade (save metalmickey -- who was of course you under a ... 'pseudonym' or -- pen name).

― the bluefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Actually, this is definitely the place to be, on the internet, at the moment.

― the popfox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

I think it is too late on a Friday.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's definitely too late, for us.

― the bluefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread has gone from jaunty to melancholic. It feels right.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree.

We have done a lot better than our worst.

― the bluefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm afraid I haven't heard the album, despite being on Sinister. I have heard 'Way to Blue' though, and I don't think there's anything on it called 'Introduction'. I suppose he/they just thought Hazey Jane sounds so nice they ought to use it twice. It certainly makes me feel wonderfully warm, it's so VIVID, like a seventeen-year-old's imagination. I am writing in the style of Alexis Petridis 1999. I hope it didn't sound like someone wanking off at great length.

xxx

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread has taken another tern.

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Miller, I think that Way To Blue *does* have the Introduction. But once again, perhaps I am quite, quite wrong.

Also, your cunning persona is leading me astray.

Great length?

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

I appreciate the allusive thread title at least.

― Paul Eater (eater), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Nothing can be sole or whole

That has not been ilx'd.

― the finefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:34 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe he wrote the one before the other

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

'Sorry about the enormous length of that Felt post I did: virtually the first
thing I send to the list. I hope it didn't come across like someone wanking
off at great length. Apologies, anyway.'

That's from the real Alexis Petridis. I think it shows that, deep down, he's a nice chap.

What I'm going to do now is have a bit of a rummage around and see if I can find 'Way to Blue'. I'm sure it'll tkae me back to the day I bought it, in Irun, and went to sit by the church in Hondarribia to read the booklet really quietly. It was really mindblowing, because the booklet has ivy all over it and so does the church, and it was in full bloom, and the almost inaudible chirrup of ivy-dwelling insects was overwhelming, a bit like when you're seventeen and you get drunk and you have a snog.

No 'Introduction', Pinefox, but it is subtitled, 'An Introduction to Nick Drake'.

xxx

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't, when I was seventeen.

I agree about the ivy and stuff though.

I done wrong again.

xxx

― the bellefox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I think N., I mean, Nick, Drake should be listened to on warm Spring evenings with a glass of wine and what might have been hope fading out across a deep light blue sky.

xxxx

― the blissfox, Friday, 23 April 2004 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

i think i've entered into a not-appreciating-nick-drake phase, unexpectedly

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 April 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

This 'Way to Blue' is a very good album. That must be why I've never bothered with the proper albums.

Nick Drake - Best Ever Midlander?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 23 April 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Surely that is Robin Stout?

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the Pinefox has gone home.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:05 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread becomes more melancholic by the moment.

― N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread took an unexpected turn during my nap, to say the least.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Friday, 23 April 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread made me take up knitting.

― LC, Friday, 23 April 2004 19:07 (twenty-one years ago)

haha

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 23 April 2004 19:10 (twenty-one years ago)

The biggest problem with Bryter Layter is "Poor Boy." But it makes up for it by placing two of the most beautiful songs ever written before and after it.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Friday, 23 April 2004 21:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm baffled. One of the most brilliant musicians ever, possibly HIS most brilliant album, and you are complaining about song order/song titles? Wow. Program your CD or make a custom tape, for goodness' sakes. Rename all the songs if you like. Hey, change the sleeve, too. It's still the same music.

I used to agree about "Poor Boy" for a long time. It was just the one song on that album that bothered me a bit. But eventually I got over it, and now appreciate it's little nudge toward jazz.

― bimble (bimble), Saturday, 24 April 2004 05:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Miller, I was mixed up -- the compilation I was on about was HEAVEN IN A WILD FLOWER, not WAY TO BLUE. That's my excuse.

'Poor Boy' is rubbish, the worst thing on it by a distance. The other weaknesses of the LP, if such they are, remain to be explained.

― the bellefox, Saturday, 24 April 2004 20:18 (twenty-one years ago)

"Poor Boy" is fabulous. Nick completely rips the piss out of his own fragile poet mystique without destroying it.

I was thinking the other day how Side 1 of Bryter Later reminds me of Astral Weeks in its playing and its flow.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Saturday, 24 April 2004 20:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the first time I ever read about 'Bryter Later' it was in reference to 'Astral Weeks'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 24 April 2004 20:29 (twenty-one years ago)

I have never heard of HEAVEN IN A WILD FLOWER.

I like this thread. Then again, I approve of knitting.

When I go to Marlborough, I think about Nick Drake. When I go to Ramsbury, I think about Nick Drake. When I go to Aldbourne, I think about Tag. And The Style Council.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 25 April 2004 17:40 (twenty-one years ago)

The song itself isn't too bad. THE BACKUP SINGERS ARE!#@$?%!@$*^&#$*@!#$!!!

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 25 April 2004 23:16 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes.

― N. (nickdastoor), Sunday, 25 April 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

pinefox have you heard Pink Moon yet?

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 25 April 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, it was the backup singers, I admit it! HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

And yes I must say, that's a very good question for Mr. Pinefox.
Does "Pink Moon" play a part in your universe yet?

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 April 2004 03:59 (twenty-one years ago)

that line - take a little while to grow your brother's hair - is one of my favorites. somehow, i forgot how much of a question this album is, a question before sinking, and that noncommittal prettiness. i think i prefer hazy jane ii: the scope of the question is broader: after all, there is more than romance.

― youn, Monday, 26 April 2004 04:43 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm baffled. One of the most brilliant musicians ever, possibly HIS most brilliant album, and you are complaining about song order/song titles? Wow. Program your CD or make a custom tape, for goodness' sakes. Rename all the songs if you like. Hey, change the sleeve, too. It's still the same music."

Exactly my point - don't you have better things to be worrying about pinefox?

― metalmickey, Monday, 26 April 2004 09:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Those backing singers sound like they're about to do something to Poor Nick against his will. Is it Doris Troy? The tune is relatively tedious.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 26 April 2004 09:41 (twenty-one years ago)

don't you have better things to be worrying about pinefox?

This is on par with the "Morrissey - get over it!" line last week.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 April 2004 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Do you mean something sexual, or just violent, Peter?

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 09:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I was going to say wank him off, but I thought it would make me look a bit unbalanced and put off the knitters.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 26 April 2004 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

You have successfully recast the song in a new Carry On light. Is he more Hawtrey, Williams or Bresslaw? I think they were all ravished at some point.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 10:23 (twenty-one years ago)

N: first 'metalmickey', now 'bimble' -- honestly, I can see through you like tracing paper.

― the bellefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 10:41 (twenty-one years ago)

(I know the song 'Pink Moon', have not heard the whole LP.)

― the pinkfox, Monday, 26 April 2004 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the bit in 'Pink Moon' where the piano goes 'de, de, de-de-der'.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 10:55 (twenty-one years ago)

you forgot the "da da da da-da da-da"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:03 (twenty-one years ago)

That's not quite as good, though.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

de-ist

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Heaven in a Wild Flower was the early 80s vinyl comp that introduced me to Nick Drake: it was much touted by the Dream Academy, I seem to remember.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:18 (twenty-one years ago)

And does it feature... 'Introduction'?

― the bellefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 11:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Here is a question.

N., I mean Nick, Drake was a songwriter - a good one, maybe. Yet Bryter Later has, I think, 3 instrumentals out of 10 tracks. Is there not a slightly frustrating lack of ... full-blown 'songwriting' on this acclaimed LP?

I do not mean to detract from his abilities as an Arranger, or the abilities of whoever was his Arranger. But still I am puzzled by the prevalence of non-vocal tracks on the LP.

― the blissfox, Monday, 26 April 2004 11:28 (twenty-one years ago)

it isn't quantity but quality i suppose

though the instrumentals are kind of lightweight as instrumentals

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:41 (twenty-one years ago)

OK, now you have lost me, pinefox.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

(your objection seems circular)

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:50 (twenty-one years ago)

I do not mean to detract from his abilities as an Arranger, or the abilities of whoever was his Arranger.

Robert Kirby I think?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Isn't there an instrumental on "Pink Moon" too? Lazy bastard.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Peter Paph, not havin' a laff, in yesterday's Observer Music mag, on N. Drake: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/omm/story/0,13887,1197426,00.html

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Monday, 26 April 2004 11:58 (twenty-one years ago)

What does the pinefox think of Drake's unconventional guitar tuning? I know he has previously expressed his bafflement at the whole concept.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Not sure which tunings he used, he used a few I believe

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:11 (twenty-one years ago)

How I loved that unconvential tuning thread.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I am baffled at the whole concpt of unconventional guitar tuning.

― the piefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Why?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:25 (twenty-one years ago)

N: my circular suggestion is: in making 30% of his (best?) LP's tracks instrumentals, N. was depriving us of further exposure to his grate skills as a songwriter and singer.

― the bellefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 12:26 (twenty-one years ago)

x-post: Why? Because, I suppose, I am used to doing things in an ordinary tuning, and don't see how you can get used to doing things that you want to do in another tuning.

― the bluefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

That article is VERY LONG!!! but thanks. I was going to buy that yesterday for Petridish but forgot.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:27 (twenty-one years ago)

How does one ask Nick out? Or did he do the asking?

Yes, fascinating article.

― the babefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 12:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Why? Because, I suppose, I am used to doing things in an ordinary tuning, and don't see how you can get used to doing things that you want to do in another tuning.

The same you get used to things in ordinary tuning, you just play until yr fingers know where to go

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 12:29 (twenty-one years ago)

You make it sound so... easy.

I have never had any success in this business.

― the bluefox, Monday, 26 April 2004 13:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's pretty easy for writing songs, once you memorise a few chords shapes that you like the sound of - might be more difficult to solo on, if you indulge in that sorta thang.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:05 (twenty-one years ago)

It is a very sad article. Can I please withdraw my disrespectful 'wanking off' comments above?

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:09 (twenty-one years ago)

You can totally be sad and wank off, though.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Which I'm sure St. Nick did

― Dadaismus (Dada), Monday, 26 April 2004 13:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Hazey Jane II comes first because it's an aubade. That much at least is clear from the lyric. I would also venture, contrary to others' speculations, that Hazey Jane is not a girl, but is, of course, marijuana.

― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:00 (twenty-one years ago)

but would have nick killed himself if he was a pothead?

― cutty (mcutt), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:02 (twenty-one years ago)

He was taking other drugs. Whether he was taking them in 1970, I don't remember. I'll have to read the Observer article (link upthread).

― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I feel such a square when I don't realise a song is about drugs.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 18:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I don't know why I never thought of that, either. I mean, I knew "Five Leaves Left" his first album was supposedly named after the message on a packet of rolling papers and I knew he smoked pot, but I don't know why I never caught "Hazey Jane" as a possible allusion to that.

Anyway, Pinefox, I refuse to sit here and claim that I think the instrumentals are his finest work, I mean even when I was first getting into this stuff, it seemed to me some of the instrumentals were his weakest stuff. But I read somewhere in an article that was generally favorable toward Drake (actually it was probably that biography about Drake, can't remember the title now but I enjoyed it a lot) that the instrumentals just didn't date very well. I found myself forced to contend with this, because when I got into Nick Drake, it was the first time I'd loved music that much from that far back in time. I either wasn't alive or was a mere baby at the time this stuff was coming out. I can't now easily judge how those instrumentals or "Poor Boy" might have sounded to me had I been aware of the cultural zeitgeist at that time. Maybe those songs would have made more sense if I had heard them when they came out. In any case, considering Drake's overall brilliance, I just can't see complaining about them in retrospect. Some of the instrumentals make nice breaks in the record, I think, but I've probably listened to it a lot more times than you have so far.

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 April 2004 19:58 (twenty-one years ago)

'Mary Jane' is a common euphemism for marijuana in songs; Drake titled one song on Five Leaves Left 'Thoughts Of Mary Jane' and he sings about marijuana there, too, as if it were a woman. He surely couldn't use Mary Jane in a title again, let alone twice, so Hazey Jane it is.
I think it's fine to complain about songs in retrospect. Poor Boy is weak lyric-wise. Much of Drake's music and lyrics resonate today; some of them rankle. The elusive, yet so misused, epithet 'universal' should be used sparingly. If, for example, Poor Boy stood up 34 years ago, it falls flat now.

― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Monday, 26 April 2004 20:55 (twenty-one years ago)

By smiling at his self-image in "Poor Boy" Nick lets a big ray of light into the album. I think the lyrics are no worse than most of his others, in fact the humour makes me enjoy them more than a lot of the wistful Romantic schtick.

The reason Bryter is the best of his albums is because it has this fully rounded personality behind it, certainly more so than Pink Moon.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 26 April 2004 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah I used to think Pink Moon was the best one for years, but somehow in retrospect, Bryter wins because it's more fleshed out, and I know that Joe Boyd was particularly proud of it, of all that those musicians acheived and the sound he got on it.

I think it would be narrow minded of me to say Nick Drake is or should be beyond criticism, but it doesn't bother me that he was human, had flaws or that he worked with people who were human, had flaws. It doesn't detract from my high opinion of his work at all, and I find it sad that it would detract from someone's else's opinion of him. Go figure.

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 April 2004 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

The "smiling at his self image" aspect of Poor Boy is ruined for me by his tragic end. His depression was an ironic thing for him to be ironic about.

I used to like Bryter Later best till I realized how much better the songwriting was on Pink Moon. Does anyone like Five Leaves Left best?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 26 April 2004 22:52 (twenty-one years ago)

No, but I wish I could find my copy. I need to hear 'Day Is Done' again.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 22:53 (twenty-one years ago)

Five Leaves Left always struck me as my least favorite, but that just enables you to kindof re-investigate it again and again. My favorite is oh you know that one about "Jeremy flies..." "Three Hours" that's it. "Cello Song" is amazing, too.

I assume everyone here knows that on May 24th a new Drake compilation will be released with one as-yet-unreleased song from his last 1974 sessions. I don't believe it's a cover, either.

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 April 2004 22:59 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm feeling sad :-(

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:01 (twenty-one years ago)

It's talked about in the Observer article that JtN links to upthread, bimble.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Depression is a generalisation. It doesn't tell us anything about Nick Drake. The problem with his death (which has never been definitively labelled as deliberate suicide) is that it gives people a monolithic idea of who he was - an idea that his music shatters.

Why shouldn't he be amused at his own despair? There are enough knowing one-liners in his songs to indicate he had a sense of humour. All deaths are tragic, ultimately, or none are...a question of perspective only. And perspective changes, which is why I hate the idea of the languishing martyr. It turns him into a 2-dimensional diagram of the Suffering Artist.

Songwriting much better on Pink Moon? Perhaps if you want to perceive Nick Drake through your own preconceptions. "Things Behind the Sun" and "Parasite" are as strong as anything he wrote, but as a whole the album just isn't as rich as Bryter. I won't try and guess at/fantasise pathological reasons for that, best to say that it just happens to be the case.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Good post.

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:08 (twenty-one years ago)

Songwriting much better on Pink Moon? Perhaps if you want to perceive Nick Drake through your own preconceptions.

haha, I totally do, dude

I didn't mean to express a reductionist view of his legacy or anything. I have a harder time laughing at the punchline knowing what he didn't know when he wrote the song, that's all. I appreciate the sense of humor in his other songs, yes. But, quite honestly, I think my above comments were an attempt to justify my distaste for the song. I don't think the lyrics are good and I don't think the backup singers are good. *subjectivity disclaimer*

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Didn't mean to sound so preachy, Sonny. Personal issues. ;-)

I'm just defending it 'cos I do love that song, backing vocals and all, cos they're so weird and unique in his work.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, that's good we know about it, then, the "new" song coming. It may be crap, but two of those last songs he did were Drake favorites for me.

― bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, I understand. I listen to ND for much different reasons from most people, it seems. His music makes me happy, inexplicably.
xpost

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:21 (twenty-one years ago)

When the horn kicks in at the beginning of "Hazey Jane II", how could it be anything but happy?

Albeit a kind of fragile, knowing happy.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I think "What could happen in the morning in the forest with the weasel with the teeth that bite so sharp when you're not looking in the morning" is my favourite line from any song ever.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:44 (twenty-one years ago)

evening!

― N. (nickdastoor), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:51 (twenty-one years ago)

yeh, sorry.

― dog latin (dog latin), Monday, 26 April 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

IIRC, "The Thoughts of Mary Jane," "Hazey Jane," etc., are about a girl with whom he used to smoke weed.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 00:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Pink Moon is my favorite album of all time. ANY song off of that album is absolutely perfect.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 00:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Curtis, wasn't Bryter Later once your favorite?

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 00:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i agree that he often rankles, often there are moments in a song that rankle followed by those that amaze

i think all the albums have their positive and negative points, i don't feel a need to decide which is best

there are some aggravating things on "pink moon" but then there is, of course, the title track, which is deathless

― amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know, or remember, what an aubade is. Is it like Chris Rea's 'Auberge'?

If I start to think that those songs are about drugs then I will stop liking them. So I think I will try to avoid starting to think that.

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 12:38 (twenty-one years ago)

My favourite story I heard about Nick Drake is that he wouldn't let Chris De Burgh play with him at school.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 12:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Nick Drake was 6 foot 3 and Chris De Burgh is about 2 foot 9 - what were they playing, basketball?

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 12:41 (twenty-one years ago)

an aubade is a song or poem appropriate to or greeting the dawn. fact fans.

― Canada Briggs (Canada Briggs), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 12:43 (twenty-one years ago)

And an Auberge is an extremely large Aubergine

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 12:45 (twenty-one years ago)

(chris de burgh held a special party at mono, in glasgow, for friends and fans, I think, anyway -. he rented the whole place out. there was an opportunity for some prize-winning fans to meet and talk with chris on an individual level at some time during the evening. mono had no special facilities for chris to go seclude himself away in, i.e. a dressing room or such. so he decided to meet and greet in the annexed record store, fans could go in there and talk to them while the party buzzed away next door. to augment the surprise de burgh thought it would be a good idea if he wasn't present in the record shop when the guest entered but unfortunately it has no backroom only a small cupboard. he decided to hide, he being chris de burgh, author of the lady in red, in the little cupboard. the owner of mono tells a story of how he opened the cupboard to store something away only to find de burgh looking out at him, sheepish in his stupidity, before he quietly re-shut the door on the megastar.)

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

They were playing music, Dadaismus.

― N. (nickdastoor), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I work all day, and get half-drunk at night.
Waking at four to soundless dark, I stare.
In time the curtain-edges will grow light.
Till then I see what's really always there:
Unresting death, a whole day nearer now,
Making all thought impossible but how
And where and when I shall myself die.
Arid interrogation: yet the dread
Of dying, and being dead,
Flashes afresh to hold and horrify.

The mind blanks at the glare. Not in remorse
-- The good not done, the love not given, time
Torn off unused -- nor wretchedly because
An only life can take so long to climb
Clear of its wrong beginnings, and may never;
But at the total emptiness for ever,
The sure extinction that we travel to
And shall be lost in always. Not to be here,
Not to be anywhere,
And soon; nothing more terrible, nothing more true.

This is a special way of being afraid
No trick dispels. Religion used to try,
That vast moth-eaten musical brocade
Created to pretend we never die,
And specious stuff that says No rational being
Can fear a thing it will not feel, not seeing
That this is what we fear -- no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anaesthetic from which none come round.

And so it stays just on the edge of vision,
A small unfocused blur, a standing chill
That slows each impulse down to indecision.
Most things may never happen: this one will,
And realisation of it rages out
In furnace-fear when we are caught without
People or drink. Courage is no good:
It means not scaring others. Being brave
Lets no one off the grave.
Death is no different whined at than withstood.

Slowly light strengthens, and the room takes shape.
It stands plain as a wardrobe, what we know,
Have always known, know that we can't escape,
Yet can't accept. One side will have to go.
Meanwhile telephones crouch, getting ready to ring
In locked-up offices, and all the uncaring
Intricate rented world begins to rouse.
The sky is white as clay, with no sun.
Work has to be done.
Postmen like doctors go from house to house.

[Larkin 'Aubade']

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

imagine my story with nick drake as lead.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Aubade, Aubrege, Augment - confusing. Nick Drake wouldn't have fitted in the cupboard

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:19 (twenty-one years ago)

It's true, about the postmen. They do.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I need Larkin's collected.

― cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 13:28 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't recall Bryter Layter ever being my favorite, although "Northern Sky" and "Fly" are two of my fav Nick songs.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Odd how Chris Rea diverged into de Burgh.

― the bluefox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

The de burgh story is extraordinary.

― El Diablo Robotico (Nicole), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I think that Chris de Burgh believes in magic.

― Broheems (diamond), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:31 (twenty-one years ago)

I prefer Rea, by far. I think his 'Driving Home For Christmas' probably better than 'Driving Away From Home', whoever did that.

― the blissfox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:35 (twenty-one years ago)

But what of "Don't Pay the Ferryman"?

― Broheems (diamond), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm -- I'm not exactly a fan.

x-post:

I still feel that the 3 instrumentals make BL more like an ep than a proper LP; though it remains more like an LP than a ep. I think that's roughly what I was getting at, re. the instrumentals.

Also I want to see whether my attempt to clear all previous pinefoxes from this computer has worked.

(O, it has!)

― the bellefox, Tuesday, 27 April 2004 20:40 (twenty-one years ago)

x-posts

Everybody needs to own Larkin's Collected Poems.

His old house is about half a mile from me.

"Aubade" scares the ge-heck out of me, it's such an accurate description of my life.

Like Nick Drake, he was a miserable so-and-so who knew how ridiculous everything could be.

― noodle vague (noodle vague), Tuesday, 27 April 2004 22:24 (twenty-one years ago)

I look forward to hearing 'Hazey Jane' on 'Reefer Madness Vol. 2'.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 28 April 2004 10:14 (twenty-one years ago)

two weeks pass...

I searched for "Nick Drake" a few hours ago on Google and it brought up the usual Iguana site, but just minutes ago I Googled it and THIS was first:

http://www.nickdrake.com/

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 16 May 2004 23:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Sheila Wood (John Wood's wife): "If you're so unhappy Nick, why haven't you killed yourself?"
Nick: "It's too cowardly, and besides, I don't have the courage"

Nick Drake = Yogi Berra SHOCKER

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 16 May 2004 23:57 (twenty-one years ago)

one month passes...

Does anyone have Made To Love Magic?

Surprisisingly enough, I do.

― the bellefox, Monday, 28 June 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

eight months pass...

This was a nice thread, in the springtime of our lives.

― the dreamfox, Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Are you Fapping tonight, PF?

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 16 March 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...

I recently bought Five Leaves Left, and I played it for the first time at teatime yesterday. The sun shone outside. Yet I was disappointed by the vaunted record. One or two classics already familiar to me - 'River Man' magnificent, 'Mary Jane''s terrific string melodies; OK. But the rest - too much of it felt too mannered, too melancholy or both.

It all seemed to me a lot less effective than Bryter Later, which seems to me more forceful but also more peaceful; stronger in its dreaming.

Yet I was more dubious about that 2nd LP earlier on, as this thread shows, I dare say; so could I change my mind about 5LL?

― the bellefox, Thursday, 18 August 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)

Let us kinow how you feel after listening a 2nd time. Or a third. Or a 20th. Playing it only once isn't fair to yourself, the record, or us.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 18 August 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

five months pass...

Crikey, I only just discovered the existence of this bunch:
http://www.scottishmusiccentre.com/db/CART/product_details.php?product_id=4769

― the bellefox, Monday, 13 February 2006 18:14 (nineteen years ago)

Well, foxy, it's 2006. Time for you to buy Pink Moon and listen to it, isn't it?

― Mitya (mitya), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:26 (nineteen years ago)

my Hazey Janes review

― sean gramophone (Sean M), Monday, 13 February 2006 18:54 (nineteen years ago)

Yes, it probably is!

― the bellefox, Monday, 13 February 2006 19:22 (nineteen years ago)

I bought Pink Moon after years with a nice compilation. I still prefer the nice compilation. In the Nick Drake biography someone compares Pink Moon to Robert Johnson, but I think it falls way short of Robert Johnson.

Not that I am a huge Robert Johnson fan nor nuffink, and not that not being like Robert Johnson is necessarily a bad thing. Just that my expectations were raised.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 10:39 (nineteen years ago)

I think the comparison with Robert Johnson was a tenuous one to begin with. They both died at the same age. Right. Nick Drake was never likely to be poisoned by a jealous lover though.

Musically, I guess the comparison is based on starkness.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 15:48 (nineteen years ago)

Apparently, they both recorded looking at the wall.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 15:50 (nineteen years ago)

Nick was from the Warwickshire delta.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 15:53 (nineteen years ago)

Robert Johnson was from a privileged background, Nick Drake was dirt poor

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 15:56 (nineteen years ago)

Robert Johnson went down to the crossroads. Nick Drake sent his sister.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 16:00 (nineteen years ago)

I suppose 'Black Eyed Dog' and 'Hellhound On My Trail' aren't entirely dissimilar. Except Robert Johnson's hellhound was like a wolf with blood dripping from its fangs, while Nick Drake probably had, I dunno, a chocolate labrador.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 14 February 2006 16:14 (nineteen years ago)

There hasn't been enough worship of "Northern Sky" in this thread.

*gets down on knees*

― sleeve (sleeve), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:39 (nineteen years ago)

"Northern Sky" is beautiful, obv.

― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 15 February 2006 02:16 (nineteen years ago)

Nick Drake is the English Jim Morrison

― Dadaismus (Dada), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 10:29 (nineteen years ago)

More Clinton Morrison than Jim.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 11:05 (nineteen years ago)

Robert Johnson went down to the crossroads. Nick Drake sent his sister.

Good one!

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 15 February 2006 12:54 (nineteen years ago)

surprised PF doesn't have his v own thread, a bit (I searched, in two diff ways)

spent a portion of this evening rediscovering a portion of his back catalogue -- time well spent

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 00:01 (nineteen years ago)

(He does; it dates from 2002, Ally and Mooro are very good on it, I promise CD-Rs to all and sundry [which I never complete] and Robin C calls us "fantasists" and storms off).

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 00:29 (nineteen years ago)

It's true - he lives in the REAL world.

I don't get the crossroads joke. Is it like this one: 'Trinidad and Tobago? No, she went of her own accord'?

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

Gabrielle Drake - big sis of Nick Drake, also Kelly Monteith's TV wife circa 1980 and star of noughties Crozzer revival, if i'm not mistaken.

― darren (darren), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

Who is Kelly Monteith?

That name does not look quite real to me.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 22 February 2006 16:32 (nineteen years ago)

Bloody hell, there were six seasons of The Kelly Monteith Show.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Wednesday, 22 February 2006 22:39 (nineteen years ago)

I can hear the fear in your voice there, Michael. As you know, a programme only has to be mentioned three times for it to come in to be subtitled. Someone made the mistake of pointing out that our new water cooler loked like Metal Mickey the other day.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 23 February 2006 08:10 (nineteen years ago)

(I have only just "got" the Crossroads joke - very good, very witty.)

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 23 February 2006 08:11 (nineteen years ago)

Hopefully that means you'll just get a Suede live DVD with very sparse "banter".

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Thursday, 23 February 2006 11:03 (nineteen years ago)

[thwocking of microphone on buttock]

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 23 February 2006 11:29 (nineteen years ago)

I bought a Suede DVD for Mandee for Xmas a few years ago. It had the most banal commentary track I have ever heard.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Thursday, 23 February 2006 11:33 (nineteen years ago)

[Shudders]

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller 68), Thursday, 23 February 2006 13:02 (nineteen years ago)

I dunno, I thought they were rather relaxed about it. (Since you could see the commentary as well as hear it.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 23 February 2006 14:03 (nineteen years ago)

Are the Nick Drake tribute gigs still going? I went to one at Spitz once and made friends with several strange people. There was a big organised one at the Barbican a few years back. Less intimate, but still good.

I never tire of those Nick Drake albums.

― Mikey G (Mikey G), Thursday, 23 February 2006 16:38 (nineteen years ago)

two months pass...

Mitya said above that it might be time for me to buy Pink Moon. And I think he / she might be right! I have been considering buying it, today. Who thinks I should buy it, and report back, or that I should not?

I am a bit puzzled by the PM sleeve, by the way - every opy I have found seems to feature a cardboard sleeve with a mildly ageing N.D. on it. On the back of that is a picture of a psychedelic sort of sleeve. Is that what is on the inside?

I am trying to remember what Steady Mike's PM CD is like - I think it might be pink. That is surely how it should be.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

opy = copy

PM = Pink Moon

N.D. = Nick Drake

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:43 (nineteen years ago)

original pink moon cov:

http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/d/drake_nick~_pinkmoon1_101b.jpg

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:47 (nineteen years ago)

Yes - is that still to be found, underneath the cardboard one?

Also: how come it is no longer possible to post on ILE, but I can still post here? It seems unfair.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:48 (nineteen years ago)

cardboard sleeve that now houses the original cover:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000025XKM.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

i believe ILE is currently registered users only

― Ward Fowler (Ward Fowler), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:49 (nineteen years ago)

You are being very informative, Ward Fowler, which is often more than I can say about some people - thanks. It is as I suspected, anyway.

re. ilx, I still don't see why that has happened since last night.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 14:57 (nineteen years ago)

PF, this might explain a little more: MODERATOR ANNOUNCEMENT: ILE to accept posts from registered users only

Briefly, it's because the boards are being plagued with unwanted advertisements and it's taking an unsustainable amount of the moderators' time hunting these ads down and deleting them.

I'm afraid I don't have anything to add on the Drake issue.

― Tim (Tim), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:05 (nineteen years ago)

Of course you should buy it - don't shilly shally! After umpteen years, I'm slowly coming round to that original dark-side-of-the-pink-moon cover and wish they'd ban that horrible lazy surrogate. Makes him look like a whoopsie.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:11 (nineteen years ago)

Island did a similar re-bodge on the Solid Air sleeve too didn't they? Make it more palatable for young seven-ohs-phobes, I s'pose.

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:14 (nineteen years ago)

pf, i'd prefer you buying it and reporting back to buying or not buying and not reporting back.

btw i am quite surprised that you haven't got it yet. and i'd be curious to know which other cds could be in front of pm on your wishlist. maybe not. i can't imagine any.

― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:19 (nineteen years ago)

Maybe I should try to imagine them!!

"seven-ohs" = 1970s?

It is odd to think that though the 1970s are maybe still cool to some people, that kind of art is still not.

I have looked again at the old cover and I'm afraid I don't think I like it.

OK, then, maybe I will buy it!

TH, thanks for the link.

― the bellefox, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

my wife bought this album last year and it's not left the CD carousel yet. certain instrumental tracks remind me of the Radio 2 Music Nights my parents used to listen to with the BBC Radio Orchestras. Conducted by Norrie Paramour. does this mean I'm now my dad?

― dr x o'skeleton, Wednesday, 3 May 2006 15:23 (nineteen years ago)

two years pass...

she's back again in my mind

― the pinefox, Monday, 20 April 2009 10:25 (sixteen years ago)

Hazey Jane II is one of my all time favourite songs. I love the ridiculously long verse phrasing.

― the next grozart, Monday, 20 April 2009 11:37 (sixteen years ago)

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