Things they should do to make laptop "performances" more entertaining

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I just saw a laptop performance competition and since its virtually impossible to tell what the hell they're doing behind those screens, I spent a lot of time thinking about what kind of theatrics they could add to make the experience more interesting.

Things that occured to me:

1)Beanies with motorized propellers
2)Little flashing-light toy robots set on fire
3)lab coats
4)pinwheels
5)go wireless and spin the laptop on your finger Harlem Globe-Trotter style
6)breakdancers
7)screensaver art project on a screen behind them

Has anybody seen an entertaining laptop performance? What did the act do to make it so? Does anybody have their own theatrical ideas?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:01 (twenty-one years ago)

congratulations, you've just invented an even shitter blue man group!

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Four Tet had a nice lamp on the table when I saw him.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:05 (twenty-one years ago)

I thought Cex was entertaining when I saw him a few years back. He basically did a karaoke thing, put on a devil mask at one point and went around and hugged everyone in the audience at the end of his performance.

I dunno, otherwise I think they should maybe be banned.

― Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

How bizarre, Nick. Four Tet was shit when I saw him.

― ___ (___), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Wear pig masks and jump up and down while your laptop plays your tunes for you...

― don (don), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:08 (twenty-one years ago)

three words: realtime blog updates.

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Let a pig jump up and down on your laptop while you play a tune.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

i saw pedro last year and the film being shown was huge fun. and james was manic on the old mouse and obv. seriously into the beats so that was entertaining .. enjoyed it a lot more than i ever believed i was going to

― mark e (mark e), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I didn't say he was any good, Underscore. Just that his lamp was nice.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Start laptop sequences with teeth or behind the head...

Dog races.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

We always have Special Brew on stage, I get pissed and yell at everyone while Linden shrinks behind the equipment wondering why the hell he deserved to get there

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

i've most enjoyed screengazer music when i could see what was on the screen. but then, i'm a nerd

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Play something so good no-one cares that it is just some person stood behind a laptop.

Sorry Nick, it is just I am getting a lot of enjoyment about informing people how bad he was following having to see him the other week. Come to think of it, I think he may have had a nice lamp with him.

― ___ (___), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:16 (twenty-one years ago)

"laptop performance competition"

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

Getting a keytar makes sense to me. Plus naked girlies in cages.

― don (don), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

There you go -- put a guitar strap on the laptop so the performer can walk around the stage.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:19 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never been to one (unless seeing Sonic Youth a few years ago counts), but to me the ideal things would be to just hook their computers up to projectors so we could see exactly what they're doing.
Maybe they already do that for all I know though.

― Øystein H-O (Øystein H-O), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Guy with mohawk playing the saxophone = R.A.D.!!

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Laptops

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

Erm, that's all well and good Oystein, but if you don't want to watch Winamp counting down the seconds while your guru-heroes of IDM lose at Minesweeper then it's probably not advised.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:27 (twenty-one years ago)

name names -- who've you seen playing back their recorded tracks without doing anything to em?

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:32 (twenty-one years ago)

Roni Size was pretty entertaining to watch because he was kinda spazzing out, or at least bouncing around a lot, behind the computer while he was working on it.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:35 (twenty-one years ago)

smash the laptop at the end of the show Who style. Have manager buy you new g4 titanium powerbook for each show. lose incredible amounts of money.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do we expect the computer operators to be doing anything to the tracks in real time? Does that add to the experience? To me live performance is engaging b/c it has a physicial element -- you get to watch people move their bodies and do things. If the only thing a person is doing is moving a mouse, the windows that are actually being minimized or whatever seems immaterial.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Matthew Dear play on Traktor the other week. That was excitin...zzzzz

― ___ (___), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:40 (twenty-one years ago)

common_person - it was a joke, but many have been known to play straight off DAT. I've seen both Plaid and Mu-ziq play practically identical sets to their album tracks (both at the dance tent at Reading festival). All Mu-ziq seemed to do was unplug and replug various bits from the mixing desk. Mind you, I missed half the set to go and see Pavement (who did even less than Mu-ziq!).

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

the artist should be hidden from view, that way no one is looking at some fucker doing nothing for an hour

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

T. Raumschmiere abuses his equipment and walks all over the table. Still not a great live show, but at least it was different.

Once laptops become cheaper, maybe we'll see people destroying their laptops at the end of every show.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Richard Devine made a lot of devil signs, and threw his two laptops up and down.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

oh yeah, T. Raumschmiere is a really great performer, although the time I saw him I don't think he was using a laptop.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

most laptop performances i've seen use candles, which is more irritating to me than nothing at all. it seems like some sort of bullshit "sacred" vibe is being set up.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do we expect the computer operators to be doing anything to the tracks in real time? Does that add to the experience?

Try http://www.dictionary.com and search for the word "live".

If they aren't doing anything, it classes as a playback. Would you pay to mingle in a room with a band while their CD plays? No, neither would anyone else.

― ___ (___), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

candles huh? never seen that, but cool!

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Play games with the audience.

There's actually a band from round here, who have a member whose job is to play games with the audience during their set. Once she played Hungry Hippos, and then Pop Up Pirate

― jellybean (jellybean), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

MIMEO to thread.

I don't actually mind people not moving about: its all abt the experience of hearing sounds in that space.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

big xpost

cool, dog latin, i just wanted to hear who's been known to do that. most of the laptop performances i've seen are by no-names in small spaces. sometimes artists would just start a piece and let it go, sometimes they would sit behind the laptop and fiddle(~), but i haven't seen anyone i thought was trying to deceive w/r/t what they were doing.

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:50 (twenty-one years ago)

well this is it (underscore).

if you at leats have a keytar you can trigger shit of it and give it a bit of a wiggle.

― don (don), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't actually mind people not moving about: its all abt the experience of hearing sounds in that space.

I would agree, except everybody was staring at the laptopeers. It was often too loud to have a conversation and it wasn't particularly danceable (I think consistent beats are a sin or something).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

If the only thing a person is doing is moving a mouse, the windows that are actually being minimized or whatever seems immaterial.

if i know the program being used than it's really exciting to see what they're doing and how they're doing it. usually involves much more than minimizing windows :) like seeing an interesting max patch is fascinating for me. but i'm a niche market

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

''I would agree, except everybody was staring at the laptopeers''

that's always been the problem when presenting electronic music tho', not just a laptop thing.

''It was often too loud to have a conversation and it wasn't particularly danceable''

yr thread seems to be about the way the music is presented.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 14 May 2004 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

it is! I'm saying that since its presented in a way that makes it nearly impossible for us to create our own entertainment (by dancing or talking), there should be some sort of visual entertainment.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

why would you go to someone else's performance and expect to "create" your "own entertainment?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"I really wanted to play cribbage at this Kiss concert!"

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

"why does Kylie not play basketball while she sings?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

"I was hoping to read the New York Times during Britney Spears's concert."

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:04 (twenty-one years ago)

argh. my point was that since the "performance" aspect was practically nil (it was a leap of faith to assume they weren't just playing minesweeper), and social activity was rendered difficult, we should have been given something to look at!

You're one defensive dude, Hstencil.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

and it's really ironic you mentioned Kiss.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think you "should be given" anything. Why does any performer owe you anything? Where this desire come from?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:07 (twenty-one years ago)

Cuz I paid five bucks to SEE something?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:08 (twenty-one years ago)

If you only paid five bucks, you should expect it to be shit!

― ___ (___), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:09 (twenty-one years ago)

if you PAY to see a laptop artist, show up, and then think, oh my it's just a laptop.. you are a sucker.

― cutty (mcutt), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

well, yeah. That's why I started this thread.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Bring in about a dozen La-Z-Boys. Charge audience members an extra $5 for rental. Allow them to doze off while you fiddle with your Powerbook.

― mike a, Friday, 14 May 2004 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

if you're a performing laptop artist, is it vain to have no visual component to your performance? does that mean you believe the audience should be so thrilled and engrossed in your music that they need no other stimulation?

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:12 (twenty-one years ago)

if you're a performing rock artist, is it vain to have a visual component to your performance? does that mean you believe the audience should be thrilled and engrossed in your wiggling ass that they need no other stimulation?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:14 (twenty-one years ago)

DAT Politics were fairly active when I saw them last summer.

― Jeff Sumner (Jeff Sumner), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:15 (twenty-one years ago)

silly, they're inherently getting musical stimulation as well.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:16 (twenty-one years ago)

not if it's Britney!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

and I said that not a value judgement on her music, but on how she performs to canned vocals.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

you're still hearing music though, right?

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:18 (twenty-one years ago)

yes but does watching someone play their instrument inherently provide visual stimulation?

(xpost)

― don (don), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but Anthony same thing with laptop artists: I could've just listened to the CD!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:19 (twenty-one years ago)

at least you can actually see what they're doing. that's why I like the idea of a having the computer screen projected. Plus high kicks.

(x-post)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:20 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah but Anthony same thing with laptop artists: I could've just listened to the CD!

yeah, but with Britney live you're getting the CD plus theatrics.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:21 (twenty-one years ago)

though I'll definitely agree that you could have just watched the video.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I do think these things should be hashed out, but I think laptop artists get singled out because of this weird sense of "audience entitlement" that rarely happens to other musicians.

xpost Anthony - that's my point! Why assume that I want theatrics?

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

hehehe.. yeah i agree in general.. more *performance* is definitely a good thing, but i think guitar bands can be just as visually dull as laptop bands.

more high kicks and more nudity..

(xpost again)

― don (don), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:22 (twenty-one years ago)

I know you're too young to know what music was like before MTV, and I sorta am too, but I don't think music-sans-visual-stimulant is necessarily a bad thing.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Hstencil, I don't think that the sense of audience entitlement is what's weird here. You don't say you're going to a bar to listen to a show, you say you're going to SEE one. And at the show I saw, NOTHING was visible. I don't feel like the freak for being a bit let down.

As I already said, I'd at least like to be able to see what they're doing. Which I know you could before MTV (and theatrics existed LONG before MTV, duh).

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Jason Forrest/Donna Summer to thread!

― Colin Meeder (Mert), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

When are "they" gonna make laptops that you can wear like a guitar?

― ddb, Friday, 14 May 2004 15:27 (twenty-one years ago)

you're not seeing nothing, you're just seeing a guy with a laptop.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

and of course I know theatrics existed pre-MTV. Don't insult my intelligence or I'll bring up you-know-who.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah i don't understand the pre-mtv thing...how did mtv affect the visual content of live performances? adding a visual component to listening to recorded music, that's their thing

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

no amount of visual stimulation would have salvaged most of the laptop performances that i've seen. bleah.

Bring in about a dozen La-Z-Boys. Charge audience members an extra $5 for rental.

i would pay an extra $10, easily, if i could rent a recliner at shows.

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:28 (twenty-one years ago)

hire pro boxers to beat kieran hebden (or whoever) into a bloody pulp everytime a member of the audience says "evocative" or "childhood memories"

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

y'know, symphony orchestras need more "theatrics."

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:29 (twenty-one years ago)

no they need a giant computer screen to hide all but their heads.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

though as lauren's post implies, increased quality of music would be beneficial as well.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

and the recliners are SUCH an awesome idea.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean I agree that a lot of laptoppers are dead boring, both music and visual-wise, but some of the best performances I've been to have made me forget entirely about any visual aspect because the music was that good.

Also, a few times I've seen people who made lack of visuals a very specific part of the performance: Autechre and Francisco Lopez come to mind.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

I tell you what, the time I saw Cat Power at Lounge Ax those couches they used to have in the front came in really handy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

back, I mean.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

yeah, I can imagine the music being awesome enough to make me not miss a visual element.

But the folks I saw need some flashing lights or pinwheels or cartwheels or ANYTHING!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm in agreement with what stence and julio have been saying. What's exciting about seeing Oasis (or any other rock band that stands there and does nothing, which is to say 85 % of them) stand there and do nothing, playing their songs almost note-by-note?
I go to shows for the sound and the crowds, visual theatrics or what have you come in a distant third.
If the music is good, I have no problem enjoying a laptop show, which is the way it should be with just about any show.
(xposts)

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

That is otm also though, in fairness, I didn't realise there was a visual spectacle at rock shows.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Francisco Lopez plays in absolute darkness, behind a black curtain, and optional blindfolds are available to the audience. One of the best performances I've ever "witnessed."

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree with Anthony... There has to be something to make the "live performance" different than simply listening to a CD while the artist is in the room. Which is to say either the songs need to be played differently live or there needs to be some other component to the performance that makes it a different experience than listening to the album at a club while looking at someone on stage. The same goes for guitar bands or whatever... I'm never interested in seeing a band who plays their stuff exactly like it sounds on the record and doesn't get particularly "into it" while playing.

2)Little flashing-light toy robots set on fire

Why stop at toy robots? The more things that get set on fire, the better.

― martin m. (mushrush), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I was about to bring up blindfolds awhile back. Help us fight the temptation to assume the laptopeer is gonna do something visually noteworthy!

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

2 people that come to mind...
Max Tundra, if he counts, is always good value. once in particular a few years ago, i remember him hurling his two mini toy keyboards into the ceiling and thus smashing all over the front of the crowd's heads, amongst other manic stuff. I think Speedranch was on next, he began by picking up and hurling stage monitors & mic stands at the crowd. one of those nights..

oh Bogdan Raczynski too - the only time i've seen him a few decembers back at stinky ol' Electrowerkz - he'd climbed on top of the high side wall's top ledge for the whole set, and spent much of his time spazzing out and going completely batshit & screaming at the crowd, totally lost in it. was absolutely fantastic. more people should do this i think.

― pete badmusik (pete badmusik), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

that's turning lack of spectacle into a spectacle, though.

xpost to hstencil

― lauren (laurenp), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

I was about to bring up blindfolds awhile back. Help us fight the temptation to assume the laptopeer is gonna do something visually noteworthy!

the space Lopez performs in is dark and he plays behind a curtain. The blindfold is just an extraneous element that helps cue the audience to concentrate on the sound.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:40 (twenty-one years ago)

surely all laptop performers have spectacles!

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

....

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha!

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

lauren's post OTM. Lopez clearly is acknowledging the visual element.

and wait...I don't think ANY of the laptopeers had glasses last night! Maybe that's why they sucked.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:41 (twenty-one years ago)

"Visual spectacle" doesn't have to mean fire-eating or costumes or stage diving. Most bands don't do that, anyway. I think a lot of people need the visual spectacle of seeing an instrument get played with their own eyes. My point is, how much extra visual stimulation does one get from watching a rhythm guitarist stand there doing nothing and playing power chords vs watching a guy sit as his laptop doing nothing and clicking a mouse?

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:42 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think any of my favorite laptop-types wear spectacles (Fennesz, Pita, Kevin Drumm, Francisco Lopez, Autechre, Massimo, etc., etc.).

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

You guys ever been to see a symphony? Same deal. You go to hear the music, not see the conductor flailing around. Laptop shows, IMO, probably shouldn't happen in bars, and really good sound is extremely important. A limited number of people would pay to sit in a comfortable chair and listen to loud abstract music and I am one of them.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree, entirely. The spectacle should be on the dancefloor anyway. THE SPECTACLE IS YOU AND ME

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:43 (twenty-one years ago)

oops, x-post, that was to Barry.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:44 (twenty-one years ago)

I agree, entirely. The spectacle should be on the dancefloor anyway. THE SPECTACLE IS YOU AND ME

Well, I did end up staring at people's asses with my friends.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Was the night evocative of childhood memories?

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

What I mean is that putting on laptop shows w/ the traditions of a rock show is a big mistake. It's a different thing and a smaller audience.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

hahaha! The best guy brought to mind the video for Herbie Hancock's "Rockit" and the worst sounded like whales humping. Arguably the former is a childhood memory.

(x-post to ronan)

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

I think they should attach wheels to the bottom of laptops and drive them around the stage like remote control cars. Or through the audience, and at certian points they'll stop and activate a tiny inbuilt water gun which will drench an unsuspecting punter.

― jel -- (jel), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost

i find symphonies have at least some visual stimulation. dozens of string players moving as one, following the principle. the percussionists are moving around in the back; if it's mahler or whatnot, they're banging things hard. if there's a soloist, and there often is, you can watch their movements. conductors can get really into it, too; didn't andre previn used to jump around on the podium?

that said, i also often close my eyes when i attend a classical music performance.

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

the folks I went with said that the previous laptopeer they'd seen practically had an epilpetic fit and writhed around on the floor. I guess that's what I was kind of hoping for.

some kind of amusing hat would also be enjoyable.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:50 (twenty-one years ago)

This is how. I wish they would do this kind of thing more these days:
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/154/pavilion%20--%20b%26w.JPG

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

'Bands' that sign and dance along to CDs or Laptops - Why isn't everyone sick of them yet?

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

anyway it's pretty rigid to say that show [x] is the equivalent of sitting at home and listening to the artist's cd when there are so many other factors (public space, audience, presence of artist, focal point of 'sound stage' etc) at play.

― mark p (Mark P), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Laptops

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Laptops

-- Julio Desouza (juli...), May 14th, 2004 11:27 AM. (jdesouza) (tracklink)

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:56 (twenty-one years ago)

no offense to anyone but doesn't argument seem particularly moot considering that people usually go to shows to hear music rather than see it? it's just kinda baffling to me that people will go to a musical performance of any sort and complain that the performer just stood there. did you hear music? well then guess what? you got what you paid for. i wonder if these same arguments cropped up during the disco (and obviously later, techno) days when DJs simply played records back to back and (shock! horror!) didn't do anything in particular.

i guess it's also kinda distressing that it seems the only way to make a laptop show "entertaining" is for the performers (musicians) to stage some sort of dog 'n' pony/whistles 'n' bells-type of spectacle instead of just playing their fucking music.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

So much to say . . . . no willpower . . .

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 14 May 2004 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I think the problem comes from feeling like you're supposed to watch the person on stage. Just ignore them unless they have a visual aspect to what they're doing, seriously. Focus on the sound.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd really prefer to think about how they could make their show more fun and interesting. I'm sorry that offends so many of you but it's really just more fun to suggest that they incorporate sparklers.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, there's the part of me that was critically assessing the music, but the imaginative part saw so much room for improvement.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Woop my bad.

"Focus on the sound" - cool, so why are you going to shows in the first place again? It's so you can smoke cigarettes without your girlfriend knowing, don't lie

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

well, i guess if it comes down to it, i'd like them to throw free packaged food into the crowd. candy, macaroni, whatever...

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Anthony super duper OTM with everything he has said in this thread.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Wny does everything have to be "fun" all of a sudden? What are we, 5 years old? FUCK FUN MAN!!!!

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

Sorry maybe I should actually read things people have written. "Bigger speakers" seems like your reason to go to shows Mark which I guess is fair enough. The thing I really like about live rock shows is that you get to see HOW the people who make the music make it - i.e. you see their fingers hitting the strings or whatever. For me it's very simple: matching a visual cause with an audible effect is much cooler than just hearing the audible effect. I've ALWAYS wondered why laptop people don't just project their computer screen up, so that people can see the little things they're fiddling with. Could it be because they're... not actually doing that much??

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:17 (twenty-one years ago)

And when I go to a concert, I usually don't want to stand and focus on the music with a studious look on my face nodding and not moving and saying "No it's about the music, there shall be no fun, there shall be no entertainment, this is art, this is art." And I don't think it's rockist to expect a good time where shit HAPPENS because when rock bands play their music note for note and don't move, I hate it just as much. And I would never enjoy a symphony.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:22 (twenty-one years ago)

No one's saying you have to do that.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I think I focus on the music more geekishly than anyone I know when I go to stuff, but I also dance to it. I think with some (my favourite) stuff one leads to the other.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, if I go to see a laptop performer and they're playing good beats, you better believe I'm going to dance.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

When they give you blind folds at the concert, I think it's implied.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I moved to Autechre, even, which wasn't the easiest thing in the world.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

that was but one example, David.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:28 (twenty-one years ago)

1/ people go to see a symphony orchestra in part b/c the experience of hearing the orchestra "live" - the dynamics, the soundfield etc cannot be replicated in any other way.

Problems w/laptop performers for me:

one laptop looks much like another

problem w/veracity of performance. I want to have music "performed" for me if i go to see "live" music. (going out to dance = different expectations altogether) Is yer laptop-poking individual actually doing anything musical at all up there? Perhaps s/he is reading e-mails, playing quake, looking at online pr0n. How is one to know? One cannot help being suspicious sometimes.

When I worked as pa man, I did monitors for cl*b m*g*d*g gig in big n/e england city. this was pre laptop era, but one of the acts had roland hardware sampler, whick hooked up to vga monitor for manipulating/editing samples. large part of this fellows act consisted of calling up different pages on vga monitor, none of which would have had any actual audible effect whatsoever. IE for a lot of his set he was miming. The music was good, he was a very nice fellow, but this seemed wrong somehow.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:29 (twenty-one years ago)

1st Answer

Suffice to say I both loathe and detest pretty much all of you except the ones who want to test out their "theories" by coming to my next show.

2nd Answer

I spend half my time stopping this happening, providing a solo electronic artiste with a degree of instrumentation at his gigs. It is piss easy to turn totally sampled/programmed music into a viable live act. Just remember though, the more twiddly and "Pro-tools" your artiste gets, the more expensive its going to be. In a lot of ways you have to buy all your kit AGAIN unless you like the look of that vintage Moog getting chucked into the back of planes. Oh and if you're going virtual with your synths then you'll get used to the phrase "Nah, the processor can't handle it" once every £2000 (also - people with really messy "vintage" kit set-ups that have a billion pre-WW2 cables flapping all over the place - GO HOME).

3rd answer

If you have these "bands" on in the midst of clubnights then its not so bad re: bloke-sitting-there-playing-mindsweeper problem. When you do it int' midst of a club it's a step up from a DJ. When you put poor little Johnny Kraftwerk on at a "gig" it seems like a step down.

4th answer

Visuals are a nice idea - but you immediately become 200 times more pretentious than the visual-less rock band's gig, even if you're playing shockingly simplistic gabba with kids TV samples. If you treat it with the respect it deserves then you're basically adding filmmaker to your list of roles or possibly paying for one.

5th answer

The most successful people so far at doing this have had to become little more than circus performers to hold peoples interest. It's horrifically depressing for the legions of laptoppers who don't exactly like the idea of dancing around like Captain Twat every time they want to promote something.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, thing they shd do to make performance more interesting = buy "nato" software, and project nice weird hypnotic patterns controlled by music during performance.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It's NOT step up from a DJ.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:32 (twenty-one years ago)

and nobody thinks it is either, I doubt. at least I've never heard anyone question the authenticity of two decks/mixer setup and everytime I've seen a laptop set someone asks questions

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:33 (twenty-one years ago)

in response to the projecting of the performers' screens... i say that's even more boring to watch than a guy checking email.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

That's because they're looking at what they percieve to be "a band" - an act, a group . . .

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw a ballet once at the Royal Opera House where the music was made by a laptop guy. So there's a good idea, you know, having a few ballet dancers at your gig.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

And the guy wasn't using his mouse, he was jabbing frenetically with a posh electro-pen thing.

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

If that wasn't a response to Ken then I disagree, one guy with a laptop is considered to be a laptop set, not a band/act/group. People ask questions because they know it's possible he's doing nothing.

― Ronan (Ronan), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Ryoji Ikeda did music for Dumb Type. Which is a kind of ballet troupe, I guess.

Anyway, this whole thread is depressing. Julio, was of course OTM with his first post way upthread:

I don't actually mind people not moving about: its all abt the experience of hearing sounds in that space.

Ken Taylor and Hstencil OTM as well. And some other people I forgot, I think. Oh Mark R. as well. It's like, what happened to having a fucking attention span? No wonder so much music I love is so ghettoized and ignored. It's that MTV generation thing, isn't it?

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Ronan, that's comparing the top of the DJ sphere to the bottom of the laptop sphere in terms of activity. The table tilts both ways.

― Lynskey (Lynskey), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Things they should do to make laptop "performances" more entertaining:

Encores, lots of them.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:49 (twenty-one years ago)

The answer to this question is very easy -- go see Chaki perform.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

This many posts without the obvious dirty jokes getting made = clear indication of decline of nu-ilm.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Ain't the nowKraftwerkians basically laptop? And ain't their show better than decent by more than some accounts? When I saw them in the 90s, they had their mockup studio setup, and probably weren't really doing anything, and yet it was great. So is the answer to have props and robots and great songs, great sound, and videos?

― peepee (peepee), Friday, 14 May 2004 16:55 (twenty-one years ago)

performers can do stuff that doesn't involve the laptop itself. Much of Sparks live show last summer was pre-recorded, but between the songwriting, the singing, the choreography, the video etc, it was a great performance.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

What if each audience member was given a laptop to send messages onto a screen as to how they think the show is going? Many people would love to show off their perceived cleverness anonymously.

― peepee (peepee), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

res ipsa loquitor

― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Why the heck would I suspect the artists intentions anyway, if it is printed on the flyer, you know: "featuring original laptop compositions" [substitute improvisations as necessary] ? I'll assume that, yes, I am indeed witnessing a program of original music composed and performed on a laptop! I am going there to enjoy myself and get immersed in some cool sound, not put the artist on trial. I mean, if anything, laptop type performances give you more freedom to engage with the music any way you see fit! Most rock shows involve too much standing around; I can barely stand them anymore, which is itself a pretty depressing state of affairs.

I think the last rock band I tried to see without having heard any of their music was this band The Warlocks. God, did they suck. Apparently, the shtick is having like 6 guitarists onstage, but they were so shockingly unengaging; 6 guitarists to do what? All they did was stand around, didn't explore any interesting textures or take advantage of this expanded sonic palette. Just horribly boring and I felt like I was imprisoned, forced to stand there and stare at these fuckheads for an hour. And I went there really wanting to like them!

On the other hand, I'd definitely count Mirror's and Ryoji Ikeda's laptop shows as two of the more intense live music experiences I've attended. Were you at those, hstencil? At 6Odum? I can't remember when you lived here. Oh also, Phill Niblock, when he performed a couple years back, used a laptop. That was fucking intense!! Oh man, was that loud. NOt gonna get that on the old home stereo system, nosiree bob. Yeah, that was probably better than the Mirror or Ikeda performances actually. Just relaxing, sitting down on the floor, real comfortable, eyes closed, soaking in waves of endlessly rich and simmering sound. SO there were three really great ones, at least. I mean, if that is not your thing, don't attend this type of performance! Pretty simple really.

Although, when I saw Oval the first time it pretty much sucked, I'll admit that. But that's cuz the music wasn't as engaging.

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

I missed Mirror but Ryoji Ikeda was totally awesome, esp. thanks to the quad PA used. Could've gone on a bit longer, but still it was good. Phill Niblock was awesome too, I think my ears are still ringing from that.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:20 (twenty-one years ago)

esp. thanks to the quad PA used

Right!!

― Broheems (diamond), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

I'd like to see something more formal:

http://www.idm.ru/images/Putin_2_q.jpg

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Sterling OTM.

― VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 14 May 2004 17:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I've ALWAYS wondered why laptop people don't just project their computer screen up, so that people can see the little things they're fiddling with
I've seen this a few times. Of course, if you're not familiar with how the programs work (which I'm not) then it may not mean much, but it can still be fun to try and follow along.
It's the same with guitar players -- if you can't play a lick, you can still get enjoyment from watching what the guitarist is doing, even though the fingerings don't mean anything to you. Whereas a guitarist gets a completely different perspective from watching another guitarist perform.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 14 May 2004 19:06 (twenty-one years ago)

What if a laptop performer projected screenshots that were actually stolen from an Oval performance? It would be deja vu all over again a la Milli Vanilli.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 14 May 2004 19:14 (twenty-one years ago)

just fucking move man - the only thing the laptop performance lacks over any other type of performance is the physicality.

― myke boomnoise (myke boomnoise), Friday, 14 May 2004 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://cif.rochester.edu/~xm/lol/ianjon.jpg

MORE JOYSTICKS

― NICK CAVE AND THE BAD SEEDS REMIND YOU THAT ZERO IS ALSO A NUMBER (ex machina), Friday, 14 May 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.ikuemori.com/images/ikue1.jpg

― NICK CAVE AND THE BAD SEEDS REMIND YOU THAT ZERO IS ALSO A NUMBER (ex machina), Friday, 14 May 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

The most entertaining thing that could happen is a computer crash, which I was lucky enough to witness at an Adult show.

― King Kobra (King Kobra), Friday, 14 May 2004 21:26 (twenty-one years ago)

While I don't object to laptop performances as such, I also do think that many of them would benefit from more of a visual element to give the audience's eyes something to do while listening to the music. Videos (which are created with the music in mind obv), dance performance, slides, paintings, and light shows or at least lighting effects are all things I've seen work effectively.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:17 (twenty-one years ago)

king kobra otm

― common_person (common_person), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:34 (twenty-one years ago)

One of the best things I've ever seen was Bernard Parmegiani at last year's ATP, where he stayed behind the mixing desk in the centre of the floor for the entire hour of his 'performance'. Admittedly it helped that I was able to stand close by and see the legendary/charismatic BP minutely tweak his mix throughout, and that he'd obv. thought quite a lot abt space/sound etc., but there was also something engrossing + stimulating abt the 'activity' of watching an empty stage, the way that the total lack of any presentation-of-self somehow made you LISTEN much more closely - more acts should not take to the stage at their own gigs! (and compare/contrast w/ Lightning Bolt, who have abandoned the idea of the stage entirely, of course)

At the same ATP, Pita and Jim O'Rourke both did really terrific laptop sets too, and again the music was exciting/loud enough to 'compensate' for the relative lack of on-stage grooving/posturing (although JO did manage to roll up a cigarette one-handed while whizzing his mouse around, which was a pretty gd trick)

To put it another way, I don't think Stencil is being 'defensive' on this thread, just anti stage-performance absolutism

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 14 May 2004 22:43 (twenty-one years ago)

I've never seen an iMac crash, but I've seen two PC crashes. That's really saying something (about both types) since 95% of laptoppers use iMac's.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 15 May 2004 00:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I miss Lynskey!

One problem is that there just aren't that many good venues for music that is best apprecited sitting down. At least not for bands that don't have a certain level of fame, and also at least not for bands who are attracting a younger crowd.

Unrelatedly: Of course there's a performative and visual element to classical music. The people who have been arguing otherwise are nuts. As common_person said above, the rise and fall of the string section's bows, the movement of the woodwinds as they get ready to enter, and the gesticulations of the conductor all are tremendous visual importance. With some pieces, such as late Beethoven (or late Shostakovich) quartets, I can't "hear" the music properly on CD, because I can't see the interactions between the performers, and have a hard time following what's going on.

What laptop performers should do to make laptop performances more entertaining: Make better music.

― Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 15 May 2004 00:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Has anyone been to the Rien a voir electroacoustic festival in Montreal? You sit in the dark and stare at top-of-the-line speakers and very minimal slowly changing lights. The composer/performer does his or her mixing in the middle of the crowd. It is pretty riveting. Parmegiani's set was one of the best shows I've seen.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 15 May 2004 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

i like the sound of that. can you sit next to the composer/performer to see what they're doing, if you want? or sit somewhere else and ignore the composer/performer, if that's your thing?

― common_person (common_person), Saturday, 15 May 2004 14:48 (twenty-one years ago)

You can sit close enough to get a view though I imagine it would be hard to see all the details of what he or she is doing. The quality of the speakers and the acoustics is kind of worth it in itself and the beams of light, simple as they are, really do work.

(Mind you, these performances use a bit more than just a laptop.)

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 15 May 2004 14:52 (twenty-one years ago)

(BTW "rien a voir" = "nothing to see")

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 15 May 2004 14:53 (twenty-one years ago)

(ah.)

who's controlling the lights?

― common_person (common_person), Saturday, 15 May 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

planetariums! more shows there please.

― zappi (joni), Saturday, 15 May 2004 16:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Leafcutter John operates his computers with electronic breasts rather than the old fashioned mouse.

― Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Saturday, 15 May 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Great, now once somebody figures out how to operate laptops with real breasts, then we'll really be onto something.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Saturday, 15 May 2004 16:26 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

Laptop performers should invite people to brink bluetooth camera phones and mix audience pictures into the visuals.

― Holy Crap! Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:30 (twenty-one years ago)

plaid had this crazy robot arm with a series of cameras mounted on it that would zoom in and out on the mixer then the crowd.

what i've been waiting for is the hendrix of laptop performers - i want someone to play it with their tongue then light that bitch on fire.

― dyson (dyson), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 14:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Luomo seems to orgasm every time he performs...that was pretty entertaining

― manuel (manuel), Wednesday, 4 August 2004 18:34 (twenty-one years ago)

That's because he's surfing for pr0n with something pre-recorded playing instead of performing.

― aldo_cowpat (aldo_cowpat), Thursday, 5 August 2004 06:57 (twenty-one years ago)

What is needed, is a laptop-strap, so the performer in question can make crazy rock-star poses with his machine.

― Zach Ayres (Z_Ayres), Thursday, 5 August 2004 14:42 (twenty-one years ago)

what about a whammy bar mounted on the back of the screen?

― Holy Crap! Typhoon is Coming!!! :O (ex machina), Thursday, 5 August 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

because it worked so well with keyboards¡

xpost

― dyson (dyson), Thursday, 5 August 2004 14:47 (twenty-one years ago)

one year passes...

Reinhard Voigt - Live @ I Love Techno (2004).MOV

― fe7 (FE7), Friday, 19 August 2005 12:25 (twenty years ago)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/fez_/reinhardvoigt.gif

― fe7 (FE7), Friday, 19 August 2005 13:23 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

Four Tet really did have a nice lamp, didn't he.

― The Macallan 18 Year, Friday, 23 February 2007 22:47 (eighteen years ago)

I still don't get why people complain about the dullness of laptop performances, as if there's some laptop-free way of making the same sort of music that would be much more interesting: you can go watch a whole orchestra play some new composition that sounds like Keith Fullerton Whitman, but it's still mostly a bunch of people sitting in place, staring at music stands, and bowing slowly at stuff.

(I guess the only advantage is that you get a visual depiction of the parts -- like "hey, that high plinky sound is coming from that guy with that weird bottle-shaped thing in his hand." So maybe someone just needs to code some kind of MIDI / MIDI-control visual representation to project behind laptop dudes -- like "oo, did you hear how the filter resonance changed when channel 65 went active?")

― nabisco, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:07 (eighteen years ago)

ISDN

― PappaWheelie V, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

"Aww yes, mute that hi-hat track, mute it baby, mute it ... YES!"

― nabisco, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:08 (eighteen years ago)

you can go watch a whole orchestra play some new composition that sounds like Keith Fullerton Whitman, but it's still mostly a bunch of people sitting in place, staring at music stands, and bowing slowly at stuff.

Last time I went to see the Philadelphia Orchestra, which was a while ago, there were a lot of really cute women bowing away at cellos and the like. I didn't feel there was a lack of visual interest.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:17 (eighteen years ago)

damn I thought this would be about lap dancing. but maybe that answers the question?

― m coleman, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:22 (eighteen years ago)

lap tap dancing

― PappaWheelie V, Friday, 23 February 2007 23:37 (eighteen years ago)

I saw Jamie Lidell do the laptop thing and incidentally it was one of the more entertaining live performances I've seen.

― The Reverend, Saturday, 24 February 2007 10:04 (eighteen years ago)

There are interesting laptop performances.... Jamie Lidell for sure, SCSI 9 were straight up laptops but I loved it, but the best has to be The Soft Pink Truth who had a massive homemade cock, cape and lots of 70s soft gay porn videos showing. Oh how we laughed.

Seriously, if the musics good then the 'performance' aspects are wasted on me because I'll be dancing rather than watching.

― idle_matilda, Saturday, 24 February 2007 10:15 (eighteen years ago)

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