Krautrock Side-Projects

Who was it who made "e2e4"? Harald Grosskopf? That's a fucking great minimalist motorway driving album.

E2E4 is Manuel Gottsching, and, yes, it's pretty great. Very ahead of its time, as I recall.

How is Goblin a side-project?

avoid all RECENT can-side projects of the last twenty years minus 'movies' and jaki's 'phantom band'

i am justified in hating wobble-rock because it is world-beat. it's o.k. it took awhile for me to realise it as well.

The Snakecharmer EP is nice leftfield disco w/ Francois K. and Arthur Russell.

if i was in 'it's a wonderful life' i would rather have david crosby than clarence as my guardian angel?

WHOAH.

david crosby is KRAUT-ROCK. just listen to 'music is love'

Agreed, though, about "Music Is Love"...

>Roedelius "Selbstportrait" albums compilations of stuff that appeared on OTHER albums, or are they comprised of tracks that can't be gotten elsewhere?

the first six volumes compile otherwise unreleased solo experiments from the Cluster/Harmonia period. my favorite is volume II (vinyl).

the first four michael rother albums are collaborations with conny plank and jaki liebezeit. so, for me, mandatory. the first one, flammende herzen sounds very much like an extension of the second and third tracks on harmonia's deluxe. second one, sterntaler, quality recycled version of first album. third album, katzenmusik, very dorky/majestic unified suite of music, resisted me on first listen until it got to 'KM10': imagine a perfect hybrid of Can and Neu!, it's this track. Jaki the human fucking metronome.

fourth album, fernwarme, less guitar more synth. albums after this one lose jaki and plank in favor of a fairlight sequencer & drum machines, they make me cringe a bit. I buy but rarely play them.

if you love Rother's tracks on Neu! 75 & Deluxe, start with Flammende Herzen and work your way forward.

the CD reissues from a few years back tack on bonus tracks from the early 90's, not worth re-buying if you've got the vinyl.

Am listening to Roedelius' "Jardin Au Fou" as I type: FAR TOO MUCH FUN!!!

Canaxis is a minimal, atmospheric early ethnicplundercollage, v. nice

Movies and On The Way to the Peak of Normal; both absolutely crucial, much more meaningful to me than Can, just get them if you don't have them

Full Circle, Phew, Les Vampyrettes 12" - fun side projects, dubby jammy, like them. Don't like Snake Charmer as much.

The East is Red and Rome Remains Rome; pop versions of Movies, very nice

Radio Wave Surfer - bafflingly bad; edited from live studio & concert tapes with liebezeit, karoli, but the editing couldn't save what were obviously lukewarm shows. survivors of sheldon ancel's improvised lyrics have wounds in common.

Occasional moments on Moving Pictures, Good Morning Story (I love the 'Vitamin C'-sampling title track of the latter). La Luna, The New Millenium and Time and Tide are collaborations with U-She. They've got moments but don't start with any of them.

Crash is a 2 disc set of live improv jams with Air Liquide's Dr. Walker; if you can weather absolutely generic berlin techno to get to Holger's gloriously fucked up live noise mixing, then it's worth getting, but I'm the only one of any of the Czukay fans I know who like this album and even I was assuming that Czukay was going to edit & structure the material a bit more for release instead of just documenting the shows largely intact. it could have been a fantastically packed single disc.

I could be outside, yes.

KRAUT ROCK NOW...YEAH! (A, D, C, Ge...)
B#.

I wish there were "Kraut Rock" brand Corduroy
pants.

xpost

http://www.acuterecords.com/HowMuch.mp3

>plight & premonition

it's a quality ambient record. sets a sustained mood. the second one, 'flux and mutability', made more sense on vinyl, two seperate pieces, one a mellow saunter, the other a sound wall made of sylvian's fripp-cribbed "I am sad now" guitar tones, is good.

Great, weird album, actually. Not very Krautrock tho.

I haven't heard it, Ned. Just being "devil's advocate." :)

Michael Rother's solo albums - blah, I have to be in the right mood to listen to this stuff else it can come across as mere Teutonic Mike Oldfield fluff. The only album you really need, if you need any at all, is "Flammende Herzen" because it does everything he does on all his subsequent albums and does it better - specifically the first three tracks. His other albums are almost insultingly nice until he ditches Jaki and the guitars and starts using Fairlights and stuff then they become actively repellent.

no mistake, the Rother albums aren't weird or edgy like a lot of krautrock, they're so unselfconsciously majestic, it's silly. but they grew on me, what to do. my listening reaction can oscillate back and forth from "that's incredibly beautiful" to "that's absolutely ridiculous" without personal discomfort, which helps.

Not too much of Schmidt's solo stuff has stayed with me, though I like parts of Toy Planet. I don't like his occasional attempts at pop music, and his solo method is more about sculpted precision than chaotic & free. but there are a lot of great atmospheric moments on the Soundtracks series, most of which ended up on the 3 CD set. "Man On Fire" is amazing.

briania's right to mention Zero Set, it came up often this weekend on the Cluster thread.

I must say: I'm really digging Rother's Sternthaler right now (though I can't figure out why the two copies of the record I've found on slsk both have two cruddy tracks from 1993 on them).

It's interesting to compare what Rother was doing solo to what Dinger was doing in La Dusseldorf. The former seemed to be largely concerned with, yes, a majestic, epic scope, with very bittersweet, contemplative melodies. KD, on the other hand, was tapping more into dynamic, dramatic swells of texture and energy. Love them both, really...

Movies — Two KLASSIC singles—"Cool In the Pool" and "Persian Love"—and two so-so extended proggy experiments.

Der Osten Ist Rot and Rome Remains Rome — lots of goofy french horn and dictaphone stuff. Some works, some doesn't, but they're generally it's pretty consistent. "The Photograph Song" from the former is another genius pop tune.

After that (and beginning with some of RRR), Czukay begins employing the services of "vocalist" Sheldon Ancel, who more or less ruins everything he touches. Radio Wave Surfer, in particular, is virtually unlistenable, as this guy—who kind of sounds like he works at Radio Shack when not performing here—is on almost every track.

Dunno Moving Pictures and beyond. I like "Tom Sawyer," though.

Second thing is, did Julian Cope write some list of best Krautrock or something? I find Cope irritating so I wouldn't know.

2) Yes, and whatever you think about him personally, it's a great, great book (that has, admittedly, angered a few). I wrote about it on the Stylus blog some months back...

these are the first two proper solo albums. his tape editing skills, which were already the key to turning Can's 2-track jams into coherent albums, become the main emphasis of the music; the editor is the author, creating the music from the details of the improvisations. on Movies he's still working from tapes of Can playing, on Normal he's working with Wobble and the band S.Y.P.H. (the title track on Normal is actually the meandering side-long jam from their second album condensed into a bizarrely focused 'song' with Czukay vocals). Even though these are studio records, the most spontaneous moments have all been kept from the jams, and the presence of the mixing and the editing in the music also feel live, they feel performed. Sounds like magic.

this thread motivated me to check out Radio Wave Surfer again last night... started laughing when at the point where Sheldon starts screaming "I Ride The Freight Train of Love!!!" over and over. So bad it's actually fascinating if you're prepared. Holger's abrupt tape-edits are particularly jarring when applied to crudely recorded live material (the original sessions captured with one stereo microphone & that's it) -- listening again reminded me that several moments here have really stayed with me, but listening once every 10 years is more than enough.

Also listened to New Millenium again and there's not much on it for me beyond the first & last tracks. The pieces don't go anywhere, they don't peak. It's important to note that Holger isn't playing with live musicians anymore to generate his new material, he's just tracking synths and drum machines, the razorsharp quick edits and flitting details are still there, but the alchemy is absent.

I saw him in concert last week; turned out that it was largely just a DJ set. He added keyboards, guitars & samples over the finished studio versions of his tracks. Opened with "Biomutanten" (played at the right speed, woebot!), closed with tracks from the Phew record and "Der Osten Ist Rot"; the tracks from New Millenium came off best because they weren't the studio versions, they were wilder remixes from the multitracks (still freshly available on his hard drive I guess). Was a good show though at points the karaoke was laid on a little thick.

Milton I love your tendency to write long, rambling posts. It reminds me of myself, only I guess I haven't really ventured to show that side of myself here, yet. I could sure point you to other sites where I've done that, though.

One day I hope to be able to fully understand exactly which albums you two are talking about. It gets a little confusing sometimes when you just mention album titles without artists to go with them.

day job

Bimble, I think that was all Holger Czukay there. And yeah, I write for Stylus when das spirit moves me. Do either of you guys write somewhere?

I know that it used Can members, bu was Movies actually old Can tapes? Because if so, that's fascinating, esp. given that he wasn't even on the last few Can records. Still, for all the genius of the two sings, those two long tunes always left me a bit cold. Maybe I'll revisit.

Czukay's "Oh Lord Please Give Us More Money" is constructed from Can's "Hunters and Collectors". Parts are obviously the same performance used on Landed, other parts may have been freshly recorded; it's unclear as the final result is seamless.

Saying it's Can on Movies is pushing it, there's no Irmin. Those two were always sparring, it's easy to imagine Irmin's playing was entirely removed.

I'll throw this out there that Holger was a really distinctive guitarist, too. Very melancholy in his way...

I love Czukay's playing. Very distinctive guitar tone, and remarkable way of forcing himself to wander into some very unpredictable, almost uncomfortable 'wrong' notes that he then manages to find his way out of, landing perfectly in the right place.

just checked all music, Irmin is on Movies. His piano on "Money", perhaps elsewhere. I'll check later, or perhaps just shut up now

Damn, this IS "Hunters and Collectors" (or what I remember of it anyway, I traded it with a friend years ago, the dumbass I am). It's interesting to hear Czukay's leads over Karoli's parts. Must admit that I'm hearing this kind of differently now...

the main theme from "ode to perfume" (the guitar melody, not the organ riff) is still one of the most overwhelming things I've ever heard.

I'm working on getting Movies as we type.

I actually prefer the SYPH version! Holger is doing his silly voices all over this track and I've had problems with his vocals ever since my insensitive bastard of a brother pointed out his unfortunate tendency to sound like Kenny Everett putting on a silly German accent. That SYPH thing is a very very odd album.

John Foxx is indeed the Conny Plank Conny-ection

Czukay's vocals are so silly it's actually intense. His vocals on "Oh Lord Give Us More Money": madman.

Whoah. Who the hell is playing this guitar? Czukay? Fuck Rother -- THIS guy sounds like the Kraut Duane Eddy...

BTW, "Hey Baba Reebop" — C/D? And a tribute to the former Can member?

Being the good man that I am, I have Movies now. Unfortunately "Cool In The Pool" sounds dreadfully silly to these ears. I can picture an equally silly music video to accompany it. I'll pass. Just listened to the b-side of "Persian Love" 12". Pretty minimal kindof like the Sylvian ambient stuff. I still need to sort through the rest, but "Oh Lord Give Us..." sounds a lot more interesting so far than either of the aforementioned.

I heard a song off Zero Set, sounded great, pulling that now, along with Ashra's Correlations album.

Finally got all of Roedelius' Selbstportrait I & II, I'm very happy.
Also received my Japanese remastered Sowiesoso CD in the mail. YAY!

Nobody's mentioned Schmidt's bombastic fantasy ooooperrrrra Gormenghast yet, I see. :) (Actually, it has some quite beautiful moments on it). Toy Planet with Bruno Spoerri I quite like, that has some subtly great tracks on it.

Radio Wave Surfer...I don't even think I got past the first 3 tracks of that, I thought it was awful (at least, at the time). Agreed that the Sylvian collabs are pretty decent. I'll have to track down some more of Czukay's solo stuff based on the feedback here...

I like the Karoli/Eltes album, myself.

Re: Cluster
Good solo Roedelius includes Durch Die Wuste and Lustwandel. Wenn der Sudwind Weht I had for the longest time, since it basically completes the former two (recorded around the same time), but I was listening to it one day and just said, "Nah, don't need it." I have one he did in the early 90s where he reads this poem in German at the end...can't remember the title offhand. Also had one of the albums he did with Aqueous, but didn't find it keep-able. Solo Moebius hasn't really struck a chord with me.

Also, does anyone have comments about Klaus Schulze? I know I've heard good stuff by him in the past, but if he's too ambient I'll want to steer clear. I just don't have the patience anymore for really ambient stuff (even Eno's) the way I did when I was younger.

It's fuggin' classic

Most of it is probably too ambient for what it sounds like you are looking for. If you get any of it, stick with the analog stuff, like Timewind (though, again, that's probably way too mellow/ambient). I've heard a couple of early 90s albums by him (e.g., Dresden Performance, Dome Event) and they are real snoozers...

Then again, I would say that about a lot of the more popular/touted Krautrock releases, too...

Irrlicht is a solid minimal drone, I agree X has some great maximal parts, it actually sounds composed, though a friend put on Timewind during a late night long distance drive and it didn't sound that bad...

Czukay/Liebezeit/Wobble's Full Circle though -- didn't listen to this as much as the other Czukay records growing up because it wasn't as composed, but that's the strength, this is a record you can leave on all day. overt reggae/dub references, jaki playing straight dub rimshot rhythms into syncopated space echo, tons of bizarre details floating through the mix.

BTW, On the Way to the Peak of Normal is, indeed, great. I also like the Phew album quite a bit...

I'm surprised the allmusic.com entry for Autobahn lists Conny Plank as the producer, despite the album packaging... bold

I've actually stopped to smell the roses in my musical life, lately, and it's been good. Just got to stop chasing new things long enough to enjoy the things you already have.

see you there

they encored with 'Rawhide'.

it's got me curious about Klaus Dinger's 'Neondian' aka La Dusseldorf 4 -- does anyone have that? Is it an improvement over the third? I haven't heard any >90's Dinger I've ever been tempted to play again.

looking through the forcedexposure blurbs, I'm getting the lineage a bit more worked out -- Engels der Herrn / la? Neu! etc. were the Klaus trainwrecks, but 1-A Dusseldorf was the Thomas Dinger band. I kind of had them all lumped in together. Has anyone checked out the 1-A Dusseldorf discs?

also, i've got la! Neu?'s "Dusseldorf" from 96 and i wouldn't say that it's a trainwreck at all. sounds kinda like any other neu/dusseldorf record. a bit more spacious, less rocking, but just the same.

though I'll keep an eye out for 'dusseldorf'.

xpost haven't heard SPACEBOX. captain trips was really spraying the krautrock canvas with those reissues for a while.

anyone heard the Conny Plank, Moebius & Mayo Thompson record from 83 (reissued on drag city)? weirdo stiff keyboard funk and mayo talking random crap on top. an insteresting listen, but not one of my faves.

thoughts on Plank-related projects like Creative Rock and Lava? i've picked these up in the past few months back but haven't spent much time with either. also To Be and the first few Eulenspygel albums. worth bothering?

yeah I don't really dig the Plank/Moebius/Mayo record that much either.

is lava the tears are going home thing? cause that wasn't too hot.

yeah, teh Lava iz Tears. i'll plan on being underwhelmed. though i had the same (low) expectations of La Pentola di Papin, based on the skimpy and dismissive verbage i've encountered, and was kinda blown away by what turned out to be some punchy, super-melodic Canterbury worship, Italo style.

i did check out that first Eulenspygel, 2. pretty sweet psychfusion, a la Embryo or Kraan. way less ropey than a lot of Stapleton's other List picks. as with Floh de Cologne, i feel like there's some satirical and political content getting lost in the translation. i totally want a t-shirt with that cover shot, so i can wear it to PETA rallies. haven't listened to Ausschuss yet. no one has much nice to say about it.

that thomas dinger record has got me seriously tempted to start checking out those 1-A dusseldorf records, though.

Anyone heard this?

my friend Martin rates it extremely highly, though. maybe I'll check it out again tonight.

Well, I've got Moebius/Plank's Rastakraut Pasta and Material on one CD and I like Material better. Unfortunately the song "Two Old Timers" still dwarfs the rest of RP, which is such a shame.

-- Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 22 May 2004 15:00 (3 years ago) Link

I must have been insane to say such a thing. I pulled out Rastakraut Pasta tonight and it was a delight. Not stoner rock so much as stoner...um...space.

Material on the other hand...this song "Osmo-Fantor" really freaks me out because it reminds me of exactly the way the bass goes in Genesis' "Back in NYC" with Peter Gabriel does anyone know that song here? And by extension, the Jeff Buckley cover of same.

How about Holger Czukay's awesome Les Vampyrettes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_7DnNBdALg

Wolfgang Dauner's Et Cetera = best band ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVl654-UAGY

Yes! I was going to mention that Holger played bass on "Rastakraut Pasta" and I forgot. Thanks.

That Wolfgang Dauner, though, that is some deep, heavy, hippie shit. I dig it. Especially since it's 3 AM.

I am starting to get into Thomas Dinger's "Fur Mich" and it really is very good. Now I too am curious about the 1-A Dusseldorf albums. La! Neu? is such a weird project all the way around but there are definitely some keepers. The third track on "Dusseldorf" (the 40-minute one) is brilliant for like the first 15 minutes, just a straight up big jim

Finally got a copy of the Alex Wiska compilation with all of the first album (recorded at Can studio around 1973 with Jaki and Holger on drums and bass) plus some some selections from later albums. The guy's voice isn't exactly immediately appealing and the songs aren't all brill but there's plenty to like nonetheless. If you've heard the opening track Ekmek you know the rhythm section reprises (or rehearses) the most hectic bit of Bel Air (with Alex doing a sort of ersatz Turkish Battle Of Evermore thing).

Of the later stuff there's the cosmic beach jam How Half Is The Moon, and Istanbulda which is in the kraut funk post-Can vein of Damo Suzuki's Network or Dunkelziffer, I guess. Both featuring Liebezeit with Michael Karoli also wah-ing up the latter. I'm into it!

Is there anything about the recording of this in Rob Young's book? I can see it's a little bit naff in places but still surprised it's not talked about more.

I am starting to get into Thomas Dinger's "Fur Mich" and it really is very good.

I haven't really got past the track Für Dich but that's some beautiful euphoric motorik goodness IIRC.

Further notes on the Wiska thing; other songs also see J & H rifling through variations on a repertoire of rhythms familiar from Can tracks. Patella Black = Pinch, Tales Of Purple Sally does something great with what we otherwise know as Bring Me Coffee Or Tea, while Derule is rhythmically a sexier Whole Lotta Love, and How Half Is The Moon has Jaki bouncing alongside a rapid beat from what sounds like an implacable Korg Minipops.

Naturally I first gravitated to those Can backed tracks but there's also stuff like Elements which is this beautiful drumless, mostly instrumental modal jazz trip that sounds a lot like Pink Floyd's Fearless and occupies a similar horizontal headspace to say Kraftwerk's Ananas Symphonie.

I don't agree that Czukay & Liebezeit are going through a 'repertoire of rhythms' or reprising or rehearsing anything on the Alex tracks, both have a style of playing so that what they play, partly because it's so distinctive, sounds a bit like other stuff they play.

I think you might be misunderstanding what I'm saying, reading it as a criticism or taking it a bit too literally.

Especially with the first track it seems undeniable that that's a variety of thing they were playing around that time that we know as part of Bel Air. Either this recording came first or Bel Air did so of course it's either a rehearsal or reprise of that recording.

Likewise those other tracks are in other modes they had that we know better from the Can albums.

At times they are so similar that I did wonder if they were literally repurposing tapes but given they recorded to two track that seems very unlikely.

I don't think it particularly sounds like what they play on "Bel Air" though! Anyway, it's a style they'd played before this album, live, it's one of things they did.

Anyway, I think the most notable aspect of the playing on the Alex stuff is that it's much closer to how they played live - much more improvisational and unfettered, especially Czukay.

So you recognises there's a stylistic resemblance but want to nitpick for no reason I can discern. Yes it was a mode / groove they had around that time and played live. That doesn't contradict the observation unless you really think there is no relation between the two tracks. xp

I don't think there's that much tbh.