Greatest Rap Album of all Time?

as we all know, i still do think juvenile's tha g code is better than anything de la soul ever did. enter the wu is also up there.

I've already said elsewhere here that Paid in Full is the most overrated album of the '80s. (it's probably not--Peter Gabriel's So probably is--but there you go)

The remaining 4 in my current top 5 are Paul's Boutique, Fear Of A Black Planet, De La Soul Is Dead,

Rest of the top 5 and why they're not as good:

PE, Nation of Millions: Incredibly influential production, though more outside of hip-hop than in. The skits invented cinematic hip- hop, the vertical sampling brung the noise, Chuck D is a booming hit of authoritarianism. But it's a little patchy, not very funky and Flavor Flav has not worn well.

Tribe, Midnight Marauders: The ultimate in lush jazz beats. Not as pretentious as Low End Theory, they just let it all hang out here, nothing to prove. "Electric Relaxation" sexiest Quest song ever. But gets a little samey, more a collection of dope tracks than an album that flows.

Eric B and Rakim, Paid in Full: Holds up amazingly well. Beats are hard as hell, work on an abstract, almost electronic as well as rhythmic level. Rakim is at his peak, album has at least 5 stone-cold classics. "My Melody"... But hip-hop hadn't quite flowered to its full conceptual grandeur yet.

Ghostface, Supreme Clientele: The sheer rush of Ghost's half-sensical rhymes, the humor, the wit, the gibberish. The no-expense-spared old- school soul samples that most won't pay for anymore. The brilliant track sequencing, beats tumbling on top of each other. "Cherchez La Ghost"! But it's after the fall, more of a look back at past glories than the new new thing.

I couldn't name one but Jay-Z's The Life and Times of Sean Carter would be there simply for having, as far as I can hear, no weak links whatsoever (apart from the track I refuse to mention he tacked on after the outro). Not the best hip-hop album in the last five years, but the best mainstream rap record of that time (however you want to describe it) by far, IMHO.

At the time I thought Company Flow's Funcrusher Plus was awesome but I really need to listen to it again to see whether it was an inspirational one-off that is lasting, or an inspirational one-off that isn't.

Any more recommendations for the Redman/Method Man collabo? It seems like the sort of album I'd enjoy, but I'm too tight these days to take chances.

Supreme Clientele: Ben encapsulated what I like about it really, and I can only refer you to his words. It wasn't a radical-sounding record or a massively innovative one but every moment works and there are no faults or weaknesses anywhere. A thrilling *experience* to listen to: you can't dip in and out of it. For its own territory of hip-hop circa 2000, I'd say the same thing about it as I said about The Life and Times of Sean Carter for *its* field: the defining moment.

Implying it's suspect thereafter. I've been pondering whether this is true and if so, why that should be. I decided the implication is probably bollocks. But judge for yourselves. Here's an (ex) indieboy's Top 10 rap albums for the period 1992-2001. I tried to get in one for every year, and also more female rapping, but just failed on both counts - sorry Missy Elliot.

Oh, and those Wu-Tang albums are really dating badly, aren't they? That said, I just bought "Supreme Clientele" on the basis of the recommendations upthread, and look forward to playing that tonight.

1. The Roots - Things Fall Apart
2. Jeru - Wrath of The Math
3. Fugees (Tranzlator Crew) - Blunted On Reality
4. Beastie Boys - Hello Nasty
5. Common - Like Water For Chocolate
6. Snoop - Doggystyle
7. Saïan Supa Crew - X Raisons
8. Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy - Hypocrisy Is The Greatest Luxury
9. Mos Def and Talib Kweli are Blackstar
10. Method Man - Tical

As for your list, though - one I hate (Beasties), one I like (Snoop), two I've never heard (or 3 if I'm thinking of a different Saian album) (Fugees and Roots), two I respect but find a bit hard going (Jeru and Meth) and four I found boring (Black Star, Saian, Disposables, Common). And I think that is a fairly typical indieboy list, yeah.

What hasn't been mentioned yet? RUN-D.M.C.'s debut?

1. Mos Def - Black On Both Sides - Powerful stuff
2. Latyrx - The Album - Deep, dark disco rock and mind bending linguistics.
3. Black Eyed Peas - Behind The Front - Solid singalong stuff, a lot different to the Elephunky demos we've heard.
4. Roots Manuva - Brand New Second Hand - He's crazy but he's Hip Hop's knight in shining armour.
5. anything by DJ Vadim - as one reviewer recently wrote, he makes it blunted but not boring.

Agreed re: Latryx - classic in my head at least...

Thoughts on Sage Francis please?

Phrenology has leapt onto my all-time greatest list, as has Blazing Arrow. You don't have to agree, this is MY list, cockgoblins! It'll include albums by Latyrx, Tribe, Fugees, B-Boys, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Wu-Tang, Outkast, NWA, Goodie Mob, Spearhead, Disposable Heroes of Hiphopracy, Blackalicious, The Roots, Kool Keith under various monikers, De La, Public Enemy, Pharcyde, Eric B. & Rakim, Del, El-P, Atmosphere, Dre, Dose One, and will NOT include any Jay-Z, P. Diddy, Nelly, MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice...and it's MY list, so SCREW YOU GUYS!

Anyways. Listened to Ill Communication again recently and was startled by how much I liked it. There's so many great little touches the way everyone yawps "we din't start the FIRE!" on "Do It", the weird "underwater megaphone" pseudo-dub effect that shows up on a lot of the tracks (like "The Update"), the whole muddy "rare groove" feel to the majority of the album that feels even more distinct once the ultra-slick "Sabotage" bursts out the gates.

I keep hearing bits and pieces of the Slim Shady LP and I've come to the conclusion that I probably should have bought it when it came out instead of letting my skepticism get the better of me.

Supreme Clientele. DAMN. A lot of the beats on here were already familiar to me the first time I heard this ("Saturday Night"=Pharoahe Monch's "Mayor"; "Cherchez La Ghost" = BDP's "Jack of Spades"; "Buck 50" = er... the Chemical Brothers' "Playground for a Wedgeless Firm") but for once I don't care. I love that insane stream-of-consciousness style and "Nutmeg" is classic x1000.

Oh yeah: Beauty Party. MAJESTICONS TAKIN' OVER IN '03

That album just really really bugs the crap out of me, makes my skin CRAWL...but I'm quite a weirdo; I put the Latyrx album on my greatest-of-all-time, what's that say about me?

;D

illmatic
the infamous
ENTER THE WUTANG : 36 CHAMBERS (hello?)
ready to die
CAPITAL PUNISHMENT (hello?!?)
ironman
blueprint

BTW, I think Run DMC's Raising Hell has been mentioned far too few times in this thread.

But 'Low End Theory' would make my top 5.

_Fear Of A Black Planet_ is the best PE album, although _Nation of Millions..._ is very, very, very, very, very good (if only for "Night Of The Living Baseheads").

Why do you think so? I like 'em both about the same. Only thing is the first Chronic is easier to listen to since it has all its great tracks loaded up for the first half of the album, while 2001 has them scattered about. (more skipping around, see?) But it doesn't really matter since I just listen to a mix-cd of both of them anyway.

Capital Punishment is good, yes.

But rap/hip-hop is not an album genre, so this list is not representative of my taste in Roxannes.

...oh, and LIQUID SWORDS!!!

but also:
master p - ghetto d
gangstarr - daily operations
ugk - riding dirty
black moon enta da stage
big l - lifestyles ov da poor and dangerous
8ball and mjg - in our lifetime
might be on the list, aside from stuff already mentioned.

Death Certificate is mentioned in this thread, but how come no one's said AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted? I hadn't been listening to that record in years (I only had it on tape), but then I spotted and bought the reissue which also adds the Kill at Will ("Dead Homiez"!) EP to the package, and damn what a package! Even though it's produced by the Bomb Squad it's better than anything made PE (this is a highly personal opinion, I know, I just happen to like Ice Cube's flow and delivery a lot more than Chuck D's). I'd completely forgotten how good Cube was before he became a Hollywood star; I guess I should by the the Death Certificate reissue next.

and now that I've said that, let's all salute the genius that is L.L. Cool J's Walking With a Panther, which decimates Frank Kogan's non-argument about hip-hop not being an album genre.

Pete Rock and CL Smooth, Mecca And The Soul Brother. Not one bad track. No instrumental interludes. NO FUCKING SKITS. Just flow, flow, flow for 75 minutes.

Other nominations from me:

New Kingdom, Paradise Don't Come Cheap (Funkadelic circa 1970 meets Godflesh)

Schoolly D, Smoke Some Kill

Genius/GZA, Liquid Swords

Sensational, Loaded With Power

Ol' Dirty Bastard, Return To The 36 Chambers: The Dirty Version

Wonderful album. Did they only have the two releases?

1. Outkast - Aquemini (so much better than Stankonia, total definition of an aesthetic)
2. Brand Nubian - One for All (why hasn't anyone mentioned this one? It's so goddam good!)
3. Eminem - Slim Shady LP
4. Ol Dirty Bastard - N****a Please
5. Ghostface - Supreme Clientele

Oh. I guess Cube doesn't make the list after all. Fuck. Never mind. He's like #7 maybe behind the Blueprint.

Um, yes there are.

I know I mentioned Breaking Atoms upthread, but I don't know what I'd place as the first now. AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted? Fear of a Black Planet? Liquid Swords? Live and Let Die? The Blueprint? Supreme Clientele?

Does anyone actually think Common now is anywhere near as interesting an MC as he was at Resurrection?

I've never even heard two of the things I listed. (Gangstarr, Black Moon.) And I don't like All Eyez on Me. I don't understand why I would lie about that. I wanted to seem worldly or something, I guess.

The thing about picking "greatest" things and just making canons in general is that there's always these albums that, while you'd never want to put them in that Greatest position, they'd always win if you listened to them end-to-end with any of the albums one would want to canonize. Like Dead Prez's "Let's Get Free".

Yeah, I don't understand the the Dead Prez hate I've been seeing here; are they becoming the new PE? In my opinion, "Let's Get Free" is one of the best rap albums of recent years, and it would definitely make into my canon.

My choices are all fairly typical, I suppose...Illmatic as #1, followed by Liquid Swords, 36 Chambers, Nation of Millions...and the first Gold Chains EP as the darkhorse.

or, yeah, clouddead

An oft overlooked super-classic great-from-beginning-to-end album chock fulla great lyrics, beats, & interludes = Kool Keith's Sex Style. Unfuckwithable. To the MAX.

ATLiens: strong from start to finish and the production gels perfectly with Andre/ Big Boi's flow. Deserves the modifier "dope" more than any hip hop record in recent memory.

actually every Outkast album is perfect (except the best of)

i think what tuomas was saying is that hank shocklee was involved with engineering both records but under a different guise (ts: bomb squad vs. lynch mob) and that several people on this thread prefer his work with ice cube vs. public enemy.

Oh shit, I forgot about that album! Ice Cube's cousin Del(aka -tron aka -Tha Funky Homosapien) was on it too! That was a great album.

chilly chill was the DJ for the Lench Mob and if you haven't heard Ice Cube's "jackin' for beats" (and you love mid-school rap), you should... It's a really funny song (musically, not literally).

A beat.

(That's what I get for playing devil's advocate.)

So... greatest album of all-time...

Ghostface - Supreme
Babu - Duck Season (cuz i played it to death)
Biz Markie - The Biz Never Sleeps
Dilated Peoples - Expansion Team
Gang Starr - Moment of Truth
Bumpy Knuckles AKA Freddie Foxxx - Industry Shakedown
Quasimoto - The Unseen

Outkast - Aquemini
Nas - Stillmatic
Dead Prez - Let's Get Free
Ice Cube - AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted
Gza - Liquid Swords
Divine Styler - Wordpower, Vol. 2: Directrix
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony - E. 1999 Eternal
Eve - Let There Be Eve... Ruff Ryders' First Lady
Heltah Skeltah - Nocturnal
Gravediggaz - Six Feet Deep

ghostface - supreme clientele
notorious big - ready to die
dmx - and then there was x...
petey pablo - still writin' in my diary: the 2nd entry
lil wayne - tha carter
gza - liquid swords
rza - as bobby digital in stereo
geto boys - we can't be stopped
snoop dogg - doggystyle
jay-z - vol 2: hard knock life

Quite possibly the album I've listened to the most times in my life (like everyday from 8th-11th grade)

De La Soul - "Bahloone Mind State" (is that misspelled correctly?)

Greatest Rap Album of all Time?

Illmatic

Yeah, followed closely by Paullelujah.

Outkast: "Aquemini"
Nas: "It Was Written"
Bone Thugs-n-Harmony: "E. 1999 Eternal"
Eve: "Let There Be Eve..."
Heltah Skeltah: "Nocturnal"
Gravediggaz: "Six Feet Deep"
Nas: "God's Son"
Dead Prez: "Let's Get Free"
Ice Cube: "AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted"
Wu-Tang: "36 Chambers"
Divine Styler: "Wordpower vol. 2"
Cannibal Ox: "The Cold Vein"
The Coup: "Party Music"
Da Beatminerz: "Brace 4 Impak"
Organized Konfusion: "Stress: The Extinction Agenda"

Since I finally bought "It Was Written" has become my favourite Nas album, especially due to the beats. Where's the love for Trackmasters? And the Dre beat on it is one of his best too. Besides, even if "I Gave You Power" bites Organized's "Stray Bullet", Nas deals with the concept in an even more chilling and critical way.

1. "straight outta compton," NWA
2. "ameriKKKa's most wanted," ice cube
3. "fear of a black planet," public enemy
4. "enter the 36 chambers," wu-tang clan
5. "liquid swords," gza/genius
6. "ready to die," biggie
7. "reasonable doubt," jay-z
8. "strictly business," epmd
9. "the resurrection," geto boys
10. "doggy style," snoop

Outkast - Aquemini is the best rap album ever. How can you argue otherwise?

The Fix, maybe

any albums from the past 2-3 years deserved to be er "canonized"?
i guess most would throw out college dropout.
i would say tha carter II but we've all read enough comments on rap blogs on that front.
madvillany? boy in da corner? black album?

Deserves if it's good enough IMO.

The Fix is a little obscure - haven't heard that before.

College Dropout - no way can any Kanye West album be considered the best, IMO.

Jay-Z albums - I like many of the singles but never found them to be consistent enough to be labeled the greatest rap album ever.

Cannot comment on the other two, I'll have to check that out.

Illmatic

College Dropout - no way can any Kanye West album be considered the best, IMO.

not best ever... merely top 15/20/25 ever.

Nation of Millions, hands down.

-- Rev. PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie 2), Wednesday, 5 July 2006 00:10 (1 year ago) Link

http://row1.info/images/stories/news/dec06/kool-keith-the-commissioner-2.jpg

http://www.threshrecs.com/collect_files/image004.jpg

http://www.threshrecs.com/collect_files/image002.jpg

I honestly believe The Marshall Mathers LP will still be my favourite album ever in 20 odd years time. It's perfect in so many ways.

NO WRONG RECORD ITS SUPPOSED T BE KOOL KEITH - COMMI$$IONER 2

Scarface is obscure!? I saw "My Block" on MTV and everything.

peaked at #4, five mics in the source, etc.

'madvillainy' deserves another mention definitely.

how about 'tricks of the shade' by The Goats ? not really a contender for best ever but unfairly forgotten in my eyes.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x245/chromski/image004.jpg

I skipped some thread but the thing about "N$$$$$$A PLEASE" is it has "I Can'T Wait" on it, and that's the best song ever recorded, so y'know it tends to make the rest of the rtec look pretty good too

Is this the RONG thread?

If compilations are kosher - and we're talking "favourite" rather than "best", I'd go with a Roxanne Shanté collection. Otherwise, AmeriKKKa's Most Wanted, I guess.

Ones that come to mind as classics:

Only Built for Cuban Lynx
Deltron 3030
The Low End Theory
Ready to Die
Mississippi: The Album
The Blueprint
The Marshall Mathers LP
Raising Hell
Aquemini
Enter the Wu
The Cold Vein
Black Star
The Digital Underground record from 1990
Bubba Sparxx's Deliverance -- ridiculously underrated.
Supa Dupa Fly
Cypress Hill

Don't make me bless this thread with a personal Top 100.

wtf with that Kool Keith album

jk
http://www.alleyezonme.com/lyrics/makaveli_large.jpg
http://www.alleyezonme.com/lyrics/makaveli_large.jpghttp://www.alleyezonme.com/lyrics/makaveli_large.jpg

No Scarface isn't obscure just never heard that as the best ever, ever.

Do you really think that 'It Takes a Nation' is the best ever? Good, but wouldn't think that.

Jiminy I like that list and Low End Theory yes I think that needs to be considered seriously.

I hate Ice Cube and his retarded rant against Koreans so fuck his record.

STOP DISRESPECTING TUPAC

digital underground - sex packets

luriqa that's not even the best 2pac album!

http://www.thuglife.ic.cz/obaly/All%20Eyez%20On%20Me%20(pred).jpg

I never got the love for Makaveli.

But then, I never really got the love for Pac either.

He had a pretty face.

i never really got people who 'didn't get' pac

even when i was at my most reactionary 'pac is overrated' college-era pretentiousness i still 'got' why he resonated.

i do understand the impulse to say he's 'overrated,' he does inspire some passion in folks that is hard to reconcile with all the time, especially for a music nerd crowd that tends to avoid anything so directly emotional and finds such genuine-ness heavy-handed but it still seems abundantly clear why he resonated w/ so many people

So it's clear why he resonated and yet he's overrated. Check.

I suppose I phrased that wrong, didn't mean to come across anti-Pac on principle. What I was trying to say is that I never really liked him (mainly because of his voice, which I just can't get into and am surprised so many people can, hence 'not getting'), but I can certainly understand why he's got resonance.

this is right up there for me...

http://image.com.com/mp3/images/cover/200/drc400/c433/c433738d7uh.jpg

am0n otm although I've always struggled with how nihilistic All Eyez is - Shock G had a great line on "Fear of a Mixed Planet" that ran "his special special gift was his love side/so many tryin' to be 'Pac, but only copped the thug side" but All Eyez is pretty short on the "love side" - there's "Life Goes On" and "I Ain't Mad Atcha" but these are a long way from the "conscious" stuff he'd done before, that political passion took a back seat to G stuff although it's fair to ask "isn't that where your head might be at if you'd just gotten out of prison?"

It's an uneven record but that's some of its strength for me, it's like this huge uncontrollable avalanche of creative energy. Some days though I think "Ready to Die" is better, but I am emo and R2D even when it's pissed off unhinged is pretty tightly controlled, while "All Eyez" is more raw imo and that's what I favor at the end of the day.

I'll second Tuomas [...]

-- Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan)

never thought i'd see the day

(also the DOC getting in that car accident and losing his voice is one of the great tragedies in rap imo)

i agree. he was great.

there is more than one greatest rap album of all time. there are a bunch.

Just reading about that in Third Coast, shit was fuckin tragic. How is his most recent record? I hear the voice is coming back a little? xxpost

Scott - agreed. Especially since 'rap' covers such a broad spectrum of styles, but I love arguing over this.