Billy Corgan (who once decried Big Black and Pavement as irrelevant music "to take drugs to") on the state of rock.

Also I used to listen to a lot of Big Black in my heavily-sedated days.

l-dopa, natch

http://www.starla.org/articles/billlisa.htm

LR: Pavement had some nasty lyrics about you on one of their albums. Did the groovy, indie scene turn on you when you got popular?

BC: Sure. But my whole thing is that people don't fall in love to Pavement, people don't get up in the morning before they go to school and put on Big Black. They put on Smashing Pumpkins or Hole or Nirvana, because these bands actually mean something to them. It's the difference between music you put on to take drugs to, and music you put on to live your life.

"I still (heart) the Pumpkins though"

I found that amazing since his attitude circa Siamese Dream was "so what if I'm a sellout?"

It's one thing to say it, another to do it, I think. Corgan's said a lot of stupid stuff, and will continue to say stupid stuff, but I'm not sure he's actually done a lot of stupid stuff. At least, no stupider than anyone else. If he's turning down millions of dollars by refusing to sell his songs for ads, I say bully for him.

Of course, this is not to say he won't do it next year.

BILLY CORGAN LEARN WORDS PLS THX K BYE

Anybody else here dress like Nosferatu for a few years, one spent with Kenny Aaronoff making angry faces behind you? I don't think so.

I think that if he was in the position of being offered these deals circa Siamese..., he'd probably take 'em. Which is fine, it's not like I look to people like him for consistency anyway (or for consistency in general - it's the hobgoblin of small minds don'tchaknow?). But I do think it's incredibly easy for him to make statements like that about his not wanting to do ads with those songs because he's already a multi-millionaire anyway. I mean, if "Today" was so freakin' special, why dress up like an ice cream man in a video for it?

Robotussin and malt liquor.

Don't tell Gygax!

http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg
http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg
http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg
http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg
http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg
http://wanderer.org.ua/films/screen/groundhog%20day2.jpg

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/history/VonBraun/Celebrating.gif

http://users.adelphia.net/~jrfisher/images/camping.jpg

But really, Gish and Siamese Dream are actually pretty good!

i think billy is good at summing up this sort of stuff.

"actually"

This thread has reminded me that Gish, Siamese Dream, and Pisces Iscariot = all the albums I'll ever need and more

Stiltskin

or that I got enough sleep last night to rise up as a surrogate Ned. I'm definitely on his team in this one.

This thread has reminded me that Gish, Siamese Dream, and Pisces Iscariot = all the albums I'll ever need and more
-- Curt1sss

I still think there should be a single LP version of Mellon Collie which dumps all the filler and leaves the stuff that should have been on that record. It's possible that it may end up as just an EP depending who you ask, but I know nobody who thinks the double album was necessary.

From: Katie
Date: Mar 11, 2004 08:49 PM
Subject: Franz Ferdinand!! (soo rockin!)
Body: Ok, so my good friend turned me onto this new band Franz Ferdinand. And may I say... freakin' AWESOME!! It has been so long since I heard songs sooo good and sooo rockin' that I have to blast it and actually jump around and dance and shake my booty! Seriously, this band rocks, and I mean that cool old fashioned funk edgey raw type of rock, with the catchiest hooks, but pure music all the way thru. An album that will make your head bop and foot tap involuntarily, for sure. Everyone should run out and buy it NOW!! You will NOT be dissappointed!

You can make fun of me if you like. But yeah, I like Smashing Pumpkins. Up to a point anyway.

This girl is nearly 21 years of age.

Yeah. She sounds about that age.

And I resent your implication.

i like franz ferdinand.

jon you are a bigot.

I vote for "more."

"the girls can't handle wolf eyes, i tell you!!!"

1. The thread refers to two different interviews, from two very different times. The one about Pavement/Big Black is from 95, and the newer one is from this year.

2. Billy has never responded well to personal attacks, and it brings an almost mobster-like vindictiveness in him. I know he got pretty angry and bashed a reviewer who hated the band on-stage. His comments about Pavement and Albini's band are clearly defensive in nature. The interviewer asked about the "Range Life" lyric "out on tour with the smashing pumpkins / nature kids, they don't have no function / i don't understand what they mean / and i could really give a fuck"
So, for better or worse, the only negative thing to get from that comment is that Billy wouldn't be the most person to host.
That said, he went on Howard Stern, which Darcy and James refused to do, and was pretty open and laughed at the angry callers saying he sucked.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is with the Pavement lyric--if it's supposed to be insulting the Pumpkins, then I didn't get the joke. Great Pavement song, though.

3. Corgan's statement about Pavement/Big Black is not really meant as a huge insult to the bands or their listeners, i don't think, but it came out that way because it was said in such a defensive and angry way. I think he's just expressing his view, which he has said elsewhere, that there's a difference between 'selling out' and refusing to limit your music to an insular indie crowd. Pavement never cared to be successful in the mainstream, and I think are pleased to even have the amount of fans that they have. You don't make music that sounds like theirs and expect to get huge radio rotation, that's just the way it works. Whether Malkmus writes better songs than Corgan is irrelevant- more people will hear Corgan's unless a massive shift in pop music tastes happens at some point.

So, I think Billy isn't so much knocking the music of pavement and big black, but saying that their approach to it isn't something he thinks is effective. What's the point of holding on to your integrity if millions more people are listening to Nickelback everyday? Better to compromise just enough to turn people's heads away from those crappy groups and convert them to the Chosen Path of Alternative.
(I'm just reiterating Corgan's points, not necessarily vouching or agreeing with them.)

well, the lyric is actually:

"Out on tour with the smashing pumpkins
Nature kids, I/they don't have no function..."

It's actually one of the few lyrics that TEH MAKLUMUS bothered to include on the record sleeve.

"That said, he went on Howard Stern, which Darcy and James refused to do, and was pretty open and laughed at the angry callers saying he sucked."

Yeah, but you just know that when he got back home he was punching the wall going, "DAMN THIS UNIVERSE THAT DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ME!!!!"

And then to calm himself down he wrote a song about ice cream and dolphins.

"I/they"? Now I understand it even less! ;( :(

That's what I meant to say...roast, as in you wanna roast 'im...ah whatever.

or are you just insinuating that i'm a lightweight non-noise dude who like da crappy music? you're probably right, but i don't like Franz Ferdinand!

Jesus.

"Range Life" was also explained by Malkmus as being narrated by a character from the 1980s LA "paisley revolution."

Unless I got the context clues all mixed up or something.

Also I agree with Richard that Billy says some stuff when he gets defensive that probably doesn't go along with the way he feels when he's not being attacked, but then what does that tell you about him anyway? He's got a serious side order of self-doubt to go with his egotism. Maybe that's helpful for his songwriting. I dunno, but it's definitely in there... All that "I don't fit in. They don't understand me [or my genius]" shit is all over the place in his writing.

Malkmus, on the other hand, writes from somewhere totally different. I don't know that he's any more or less of an egotist about his abilities, but he's definitely from a different planet than Corgan. I'm not a huge Pavement fan, though I do see what benton prefers when he's comparing the two.

Sadly, "overwrought and whiney" seems to hit home with a lot more folks than "brain and heart." With a bunch of time I don't have, I could probably research and posit a theory and write a thesis about why this is, but for now I think I'll just be content to observe it and let it sadden me when I think about it too much. (My favorite band is one that I think has another version of "brain and heart" but gets pegged 90% of the time as "humor" or "novelty" which is a crock of shit.)

That said, I like Smashing Pumpkins, and I like Pavement. I probably prefer Pavement for lyrics. On days when I prefer the Pumpkins for anything, it's usually just for unabashed fuzz pedal rock. Though it's rarely more than 1/3 of their records, I still think it's what they do best. To try to compare that to what Pavement does best musically is pretty much apples and oranges.

xpost w/ hstencil And yeah, Malkmus actually writes in the voices of characters other than himself, which is something I doubt Corgan even realizes is possible.

oh, and LOL, ROFL, etc. etc.

I seem to recall that this might have been on the Lone Justice/Smashing Pumpkins/Local H/7 Mary Three leg of the Del Taco/Zima Gold/Lane Bryant Summer SlamJam in Peoria, IL.

While the passengers were waiting to board, I noticed a tall fellow with his hat pulled down a bit over his face and thought to myself "That guy looks like Billy Corgan." After looking at him for about 10 seconds, I realized that it was in fact Corgan himself. He was very furtive, and he kept adjusting his hat to cover more of his head. He boarded before I did, cause he was in first class, and when I got on the plane and walked through first class on the way to my seat, he was all slumped down in his chair with his hat pulled down even lower over the top of his face.

The whole time I kept wondering why the hell he was so concerned with being reckognized. I don't think anyone except for me figured out who he was, and I certainly didn't care about it as anything other than a novelty...

xpost w/ hstencil And yeah, Malkmus actually writes in the voices of characters other than himself, which is something I doubt Corgan even realizes is possible.

Was that an intended reference to the Pumpkins song "appels + oranjes"? ;-)

Also, not to sound like too much of an (ex!) fan-boy, Corgan has said all of his songs are from the perspective of a woman. Heh.

i'm not sure if this is strictly true, but this is still the most interesting point made on this thread.

No, it wasn't intended. I just looked it up and figured out that song is on Adore which is well after I quit following their records. Heheh...

i'm not sure if this is strictly true, but this is still the most interesting point made on this thread.

Actually, I meant I didn't think Corgan would have noticed that it's possible for Malkmus to write in someone else's voice. I phrased it poorly, but I was thinking more along the lines of Billy only thinking "Malkmus has a lyric that sounds like it's putting down Smashing Pumpkins, therefore Malkmus himself must feel that way."

gygax beat me to it. so i'd just like to say here that i do not like the band they might be giants.

Ha! The favorite band I mentioned before that I don't think gets enough credit for being anything other than "humor" or "novelty."

let's boil it down fer all-
SP- an "indie" band that never was truly "indie" as they were really NEVER on an indie label. the caroline label was owned by virgin (i think...) and therefore, SP were NEVER "indie" at any point. unless you count the Sub-Pop singles and the Limited Potential single.

Pavement- the hipster indie band that all the hipsters in indie bands love(d). the eternal underdawg, never on a 'major', singles? i guess you could call them that. i never heard one song of theirs on the radio, being played to death (see SP).

the music-
SP
1st album-gish- semi psyche/metal, big Butch production, sounds good, still
2nd- siamese dream- the peak of SP, in my book
3rd- PI- the end of the peak
4th- MCIS- best selling of all albums, unfortunately, billy's writing already begining to show strains, 1/2(or more) could've been axed or replaced with other songs. just too much...still have a specail place for this album, just something i dig out for nostalgia...
5th- Adore- fuck. this. album. i refuse to accept it when given. such a complete waste.
6th- machina- good ideas destroyed by production. who'd a thunk production would spoil SP? right...
7th- Machina 2- ok, this is what should've been released!!! i still listen to this and marvel at what could've been. an internet/fan only album, i play songs off this for people and they react like i pulled out some SD-era b-sides? "WTF? this is actually GOOD!"

pavement
0-westing-can we even count this one? i like it, but album? nah...
1st- S+E= classic. must've been mega when it came out. i didn't hear it till 1995.
2nd- CR,CR= still classic. some say this is peak pavement. i disagree. but, it's still very strong.
3rd- Wowwee Zowwee= this IS classic and IS peak, for me. still can listen to just about every song and feel like it's brand new. even though i've gone thru 3 copies i don't think i can tire of this album.
4th- Brighten the Corners- ok, now, we're on the downside of the peak. good, but not as great as WZ.
5th- TT= SM's first 'solo' album with the cast of pavement playing the backing band. there are 2 songs i can listen to now. the rest is too bad to even go back to. this is pavement's adore/machina era. trite and terrible. i don't even know if i can keep this one much longer...

the lead fellas-
billy= pretentious ego maniac, lsd scarred (when he was good), and at times very angrah!1!!1 but, still shreds circles around SM, and does it right. as much as i dislike the man, he's far and away one of the best gtr. players i've ever heard.

SM= pretentious while being nonchalant, burned out (when he was good) but affable. obvious lineage, but, that's not something to hold against him. what to hold against him- his rather nasty outbursts to his fans and bandmates. and TT. a distinct voice (vox+gtr) that when it works is absolutely grand, but when fails, burns worse than billy.
ok, well, almost.....

now, both dinsaurs.
boo
hoo

Well Matador had a thing w/Atlantic.

One time of the many I saw Pavement, Malkmus changed the lyrics to be about the Endtables, one of Louisville, Kentucky's first punk bands. So I never understood why people took it so seriously.

Would he have any reason not to think that if he had somehow neglected to read the one issue of Artforum that might have shed some light on the subject? I mean, I understand the concept of writing in a different voice, but if a dude in one '90's alternarock band writes a song that references another '90's alternarock band, it seems like the simplest assumption would be that he's talking in his own voice, unless the singer gives you reason to think otherwise from the rest of the lyrics to the song, which I'm pretty sure Malkmus doesn't. Not catching an extremely obscure reference that maybe 20 or 30 people in the world (or however many people subscribe to Artforum) would get doesn't make Corgan the asshole.

Did Stone Temple Pilots ever comment on "Range Life?"

I read an interview with the guitarist (Robert DeLeo, I think?) who thought it was really funny and said Pavement was his current favorite band. "They do the most amazing slag on us in this one song" was the gist of the quote.

It seemed like Malkmus was proposing that Pavement circa S&E/CRCR didn't have much to do with the Smashing Pumpkins crowd, and vice versa. Though it must have also been fun to sing about how "I could really give a fuck" about the Smashing Pumpkins, knowing how steamed Billy would get.

That's interesting too because this was also around the time of the biggest hit Pavement would ever score: "Cut Your Hair."

I don't remember Albini saying anything bad about poor Billy. I would think those nice houses and the Ferrari would be enough solace for Mr. Corgan, to protect him from a guy who makes $24,000 a year.

are any pavement songs truly coherent in their POV?

what's so incoherent about "Range Life?"

Do you think Albini is the type of guy who could live with debt (ie, knowing he owes something to somebody)? I certainly don't!

Like some genius once sang: "Boy, you gotta pay your dues, before you pay your rent"!

Do you think Albini is the type of guy who could live with debt (ie, knowing he owes something to somebody)? I certainly don't!

No, he does not seem like the kind of person to want to carry personal debt, but I stress (yet again!) that Electrical's finances are separate from any individual that works there.

I don't know about the studio in his former house on the Northwest Side, but I doubt that that was financed in any way besides personal debt and/or savings (he did have a day job up until 1986). Since he sold that house to a friend, I doubt there were many proceeds he could've used from the sale towards building Electrical, which is a multi-million-dollar facility. In other things I've read by Albini, he has mentioned revolving credit from financial institutions as being essential to starting new studios, so I'm assuming he's talking from experience.

In my experience, Steve is anything but a grudgeful person.

So the world really is a vampire?

he was very polite even though he played my college! Poor guy, dumb college kids all around.

i called. and promptly blanked on what i had made up to ask ol' steve.

OK, not I'm just being needlessly caustic.

When I am king he will be first against the wall.
Wakka wakka wakka!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is that from "My Neck, My Back"?
-- Curt1sss (sevenxvii...), July 20th, 2004.

If you want to know, that's "Disposable Heroes" from Metallica's classic Master of Puppets album.

-- edde (e...), July 20th, 2004.

try living with him.

eek.

no thank you, sir. i believe i'll stick with my gf.
and the cats.

they're bad, though. and she gets PMS, so, that's sorta the same, right?

yeah...
i know.
it's not.

I bet he was oh so sympathetic to the plight of the mourning deadhead.

-- I CAN LEAD YOU THROUGH THE ZONE (zon...), July 21st, 2004.

Your ways are mysterious, Jon.