Poptones Goes Bust: Your Views Please - Here's My Considered Analysis

Who will write the Book this time?

Even Simon Reynolds alludes to a staider, more tightly-regulated media in his postpunk piece, admittedly more in a descriptive / scene- setting way than a nostalgic one, but even he shows signs of yearning for a time when We All Knew What Was Going On and We All Knew Who To Turn To To Find Out About It. In short, the "ethos" I had in mind is a level of fogeyism against "MTV culture" (which I care little about *either way*) comparable to that which no doubt permeates The Spectator.

Still, David Stubbs on Scritti's "Songs To Remember" is good - he's regurgitating a lot of his old ideas, but he's such a natural writer that it still reads better than almost anything else in there.

[Doomie the 60s retro rock freak is fan of The Hives !]

Of course, this begs the question - why aren't independent music moguls more fiscally sound?

(And the A&R peeps can only be blamed for so much - Alan still signs the cheques.)

it has been proved by science (and inadevertently by fred dannen) that the best labels evah were run by cynical crooXoR who wished
1. to shag the talent
2. to snort the profits

Objectively as a result they delivered more of both hurrah.

ps martian did you see the GRATE sun headline on thursday: "EVIL LUST OF POP BEAST KING" — Nick Cave will be SO jealous of that accolade.

[Another new band that piss me off ..The Electric Softparade one of NMEs new "top 10" British guitar bands - total crap - the vocalist sounds like a whiney cat being stepped on and the music is generic guitar toss. ]

I like DG's last line.

The more enthusiastic record labels there are, the better - I won't cheer when one fails. But I'm not surprised - there simply is not the broad constituency any more for what McGee thinks rock is, and he was acting with Poptones as if there was - had he kept it to Elephant 6 or Siesta scale it would have done better than fine, but he couldn't do that as it would have meant admitting this particular brand of change-the-culture rock is now a crafts industry.

Shh, DG, you'll give it all away!

Like I say, the failure of any label is nothing to crow about - if Poptones does retrench and find its feet I'd say great, though I still probably won't like any of the product. But it is significant that McGee's rockandroll dream can't shift units the way it once did: the shelves of our HMV are crammed with unsellable Cosmic Rough Riders singles.

(Actually I'm being unfair because this kind of thing - eg Superstar - never sold that much even for Creation.)

And to News of the World man, I started this thread and will keep it going for as long as I wwjtiojew pjr v-[i boseg[pik opjse fijwek tergn grrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

also i bet yor not relly nus o werld

no like go start own alan mcgee god thread

I *was* going to post my Big Theory of what went wrong, tho: only it's long and involved and I've been "busy" haha with other things. It will involve Felt and the Merovingian Dynasty, you'll be enthralled to learn, and McGee will be compared to William Morris. I might not persuade Doomie, but I'll certainly annoy Robin!

As The Ever Eloquent David Crosby pointed out "Don't intellectualize my rock and roll, please".

A bit bloody rich D. Crosby coming out with that, as anyone who's heard thee studio session outtake on thee CD of "The Notorious Byrd Brothers" will attest. "Its something called your ego, Michael" Sheesh, whatever.....

i'd rather have spent 18 months at the label who released the Montgolfier Brothers, Ken Stringfellow and The Hives, than to spend 10 years working for ANY music pa

Patsy? Pancake? Paddle?

The only concern that I have for any of these folks is Marcello and he's doing o.k. The rest? Why would I explain things to them? Why would I bother to explain humanity to them? They have spent too long on a internet board, addicted, for it to even matter.

So, when all is said and done, they will cackle and they will laugh but at the end of the day they are just some people sitting behind a computer laughing at everything without participating in life.

I would not bother trying to explain life or humanity to them. It's a waste of breath.

The others do not seem to have the courage.

It is one thing to be provocative and quite another to be hateful. I know the difference. Maybe it is an English thing? I really don't know. But it's not a doompatrol thing.

Bye.

The questions are:

What Poptones music has everyone on this list listened to? Just a list. No comments. When I have seen the list of albums listened to in full then I will weigh your considerations. As I have seen nothing seems to be based on any fact. Just mean spirited and dirty play.

So, list. If you can. But I know someone isnt going to have the restraint to do that.

Marcello keep it cool, brother and you have got my email address. I meant what I said.

My list January Millennium / Sag. reissues Mongolfier Brothers Cosmic Rough Riders

(only 4, I know)

Out of these I thought the Mongolfier Brothers record was an all time classic and the only one I really hated was the Cosmic Rough Riders. The others left me a bit confused, as if I wasn't picking up the Alan aesthetic quite properly, but that happened with Creation a lot of the time too. The El man's sleeves were consistently gross, and probably have to bear some of the blame for the sales problems. That's my opinion, and I'd be sorry if they called it a day.

But you already knew this. I did not crow up-thread: oddly enough I thought of all the little bands that McGee has left stranded and let down. I am far too old to be hip. The assumptions micheal and ian are making about people on this board are not different from the assumptions they are criticising. I like doomie a lot more since he stopped playing self-protective games the whole time.

To Mark S's comment about the little bands, if you know the history of creation, you would realize that hardly any band was actually dropped from the label until the Sony take over and again, as most musicians know, that is part of the music game. You win or you lose.

But the thing is poptones brought back the mighty jasmine minks and arnold when all other resources failed them. They are little bands. Are they not? And the fact remains, you don't need a label to put out your music. As part of the contract with Sony Alan was give the rights to the Trashmonk cd which he promptly returned to Nick. Nick now owns his own music and licensed it back to poptones. Alan McGee is just one guy putting out music he likes and having fun. Is that not what rock and roll is about.

But I am not here to discuss other things I here to discuss the music.

Is it fun seeing whatthefuckalanandco.are going to put out in a day and age of rock and roll when everything, including market/product is the major concern?

Is it fun going 'What the fuck? Elvez? McGee put out Elvez as one of the first important poptones releases? That's fucking crazy.

Yes. It is fun.

For me, I love Ken Stringfellow/the entire from the vaults reissues/January/The Tyde/The Hives/Tasha Lee/Cosmic Rough Riders/Mad Professor reissues/Elliott Kendall.

The only band that I hated was Airport.

Pretty much everything I've ever said abut Poptones though has been in reply to / commentary on stuff they said in interviews/on the website. Yeah it's all froth, all commentary is - but they do it too. It's never 'just' about the music. With their interviews and publicity and with the website they put together a particular vision of rock and roll and said "If you like this, check these records out". I didn't like that vision of rock and roll: some people loved it. Fair enough.

Wow Gareth. Looks like some of Kate's "peace and love" charm has certainly rubbed off on you - you'd make a great couple.

I hope Poptones continues, because whether or not you like the music their hearts were in the right place. As it goes, I like the tunes as well - Montgolfier Brothers, Ken Stringfellow, Slumberparty to name but three.

To say you're glad people have lost their jobs, that a musical venture has stalled, that something different has given way yet again to the status quo - that's pretty sad.

the thing with the Poptones aesthetic for me is

1. Sundazed do the 60s re-releases thing better

2. Siesta or Le Grand Magistery do the Mike Alway magical and horribly uncommercial flights of fantasy better

3. Rough Trade/Matador or ahem.. Merge do the signing fantastic cult bands like the Mongolfier Brothers thing better

4. Any number of pricks do the foisting bands like Cosmic Rough Riders on the public by way of NME re-writing their press releases for cash better.

The Poptones I was hoping for would have SMASHED the competition in all these areas. Still, if they re-released Pacific Ocean Blue by Dennis Wilson, I'd forget all the above....

Like I said my comments on Poptones have pretty much centred entirely on what Alan, the company and the bands have said, not done. And what they said set up a particular vision of rock and roll. So that's what I criticised.

And hey, you learn by your mistakes. Personally, watching it grow is very cool.

Have you heard Elliot Kendall's single? It's orchestrated pop bliss.

How do you decide which records to buy, DP? I'm honestly intrigued.

Oh. If you want to continue with this thread, list the albums that you have actually listened to. Otherwise, it is a bit pointless and your ranting will mean nothing and basically you will show glee over four people losing their jobs.

Bye bye.

Peace, love and picking out curtains...

It's sad really. But carry on, several people are watching you and the responses on this thread. . . and it is ... just sad, that's all.

But do Carry On. If you must. It is fascinating to watch someone without humanity. You are the closest that I have ever got to watching someone/something lacking humanity.

Please rant on.

NB: Matthew see what I mean on how her responses will fit in perfectly with your study? Is it not perfect?

Why would I be offended by a comparison of someone I dislike with William Morris, Mark? I agreed with Tom's statement that McGee's idea of rock'n'roll is now a craft industry and, while, I like the *idea* of craft industries, that doesn't stop me thinking that a lot of the product of a lot of them is shite.

Still, at least you haven't expressed mock amazement that I liked a band Morris wouldn't have liked, as another IL* contributor once did (off the forum), presumably with a straight face.

Save your boring wordy pieces cause if you havent heard the music don't comment. McGee is worth 40 million and has a record label. What do you have with your relevant thoughts? Nothing.

Exactly.

Think about that tonight. Relevant? I want reality, Robin. And that's not alot to ask for now is it?

(Oh! I just remembered! I did hear a Poptones record! That French Kicks mini-album. And I'll listen out for the Montgolfier Brothers since everyone seems to agree that's the high point so far.)

he wants reality tonight but you can only answer the questions he asks = he is frightened of reality

What do you think of Trashmonk?

Hmm.

Makes me question the validity of the opinions expressed on I Love Music. Bluffers.

Where have I attacked Poptones music? I've been quite nice about the label - I don't think people losing their jobs at the moment is a good thing. So here's reality:

Poptones isn't doing well and has to lay people off. Why? Because its records aren't selling well enough and because it made its initial capital in part off the Internet investment boom. Were the records good or bad? No idea. Sales have nothing to do with quality, though. So how good the records are isn't relevant. So I'm not criticising Poptones' records, but its brand image and marketing strategies, which I have seen/read. Simple!

Obviously I would criticise a record without hearing it if I thought it would make for interesting replies, so please question my validity all you want. I've been inspired by records without ever hearing them too, so it evens out.

And as for you Mark, I pointed out, explicitly what I had did with my friend Matthew, so not much snooping is involved. And I am poor but I'm happy and I'm writing and I'm doing things. Have you thought of getting off of this forum and focusing your efforts on your much vaunted book? Maybe you would be happy as well, Mark. But then again I don't know you. You are words on a screen to me.

I mean, the two heavy hitters that were expected to sell were Cosmic Rough Riders (top fourty hit) and The Hives (selling shitloads). These bands, if successful will able Poptones to give exposure to other bands.

that's the way of the gun, son.

1. Mark S. hasnt heard any of the poptones releases (apparently he is "pore").

2. Tom M. has heard one e.p., French Kicks but has read the website. He disagrees with the website.

3. Robin C. is writing a 1000 word piece on Experimental Audio Research.

4. Kate is bitter.

5. The label is one year old. It has/is beginning to establish an identity. To be honest, I would have written off creation in the first year. It turned out to be a powerful influential label before turning into Sony's version of STIFF.

6. The people that have heard the music, like where the heart and soul of the matter is, enjoy some of the music, think that it can go places where it havent been yet.

7. Kate is bitter and hates everything connected to poptones.

8. Doomie is going to be the Joy Division box set tomorrow for £12.00 and is ending up this obsession with this thread.

there is a teeny grain of truth in my big post upthread — you are sometimes a bit too controlling in discussion — but i magnified it a million times because i was feeling wild and silly and pointlessly argumentative

you are right about my book, of course: and i am running away from it because i am frightened it will not be as good as i want it to be; but i also come here because i like the sound of people chattering and squabbling about music, it makes it real (!!) again, and vivid. last year i had decided i hated music, and could no longer write my book: discovering ILM made me care about it again, and go out and listen — the editor of the wire mentioned in his editorial that i had been seen at the lollies, because he thought it actually newsworthy that i was out and about checking live music once more

at the weekend i am going to buy a poptones CD: if i hate it then this will be my punishment for teasing you; if i like it then hurrah!!

I think this is a good idea - we supposed hatas should buy a Poptones CD that sounds interesting to us (in my case Montgolfier Bros). If I don't like it it can be a prize in the ILE Awards.

Yes. Get the bloody Montgolfier Brothers. However, I did get my copy when they were on vespertine. *shines hip halo*

And this isn't the first time that McGee's 'grand dream' has failed - who remembers his Elevation label now?

I don't need to say anything because Gareth and Suzy have already said it. I actually hold very little against McGee as a person, but good god, it's hard to like someone who is responsible for the cult represented by Doomie and others. Besides, it's so easy to wind the poor boy up, you just can't help it, can you?

I have suffered grevious insults & indignities for this belief.

Various english comments. Blah.

Bye.

Anyways back to my real life which is immeasurably more pleasant than the on line one (that doesnt go for my egroup cause the people on it are brilliant).

The anarchy forum is more interesting and is without the classic english whinge.

I like the Poptones reissues and a couple of songs off a couple of other of the current bands. I will buy Alasdair the K.E. single.

I think what the Clientele really need to get their album done is to get a bigger British label behind them. Nudge nudge.

When I worked in a record store(Early 2000) the things people asked about after being played were France Gall, Clientele, Montgolfier Brothers. It was especially nice at that time to tell them that they wouldn't be able to get anything by the latter two w/o a lot of effort. I'm trying to remember other things that had the same effect... Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Stereo Total, Jay Jay Johanson....

Fwiw Michael I think I get talked about more in that respect than you do.

All this talk of the Montgolfier brothers has piqued my curiosity, I must say. If only my sound card weren't toast I would do some further investigating right now.

nb: i like two out of three of those bands.

Until Poptones signed Slumber Party and the French Kicks I had no idea those bands exsisted. In a strange way, they are bringing the underground over to a large group of people who would not have heard of those bands but like creation or oasis.

"Robin C is writing a 1000 word piece on Experimental Audio Research."

No I'm not. I've never heard them.

I'm still listening to the Clientele, putting the finishing touches on my short story "The Swimming Pool" and it's brilliant! And finished reading Stone Roses by John Robb. Good book. Made me want to listen to Stones Roses album.

Nicole, you should pick up the Montgolfier Brothers. And I think it's really cool that only girls continued the conversation once I said I wanted to clear out all of the bullshit. Girls do rock in conversation.

Is there any opinions about the zephyrs?

Exactly.

Can you mention something on I Love Music without provoking "Or it's crap.....I just tape recorded my washing machine and fed it backwards through a DAT tape and it's brilliant"

Cue someone on here saying how brilliant it is in long winded "pieces" about how brilliant that is and how rock and roll is terrible.

I Love Parody, more like. I Love the English Whinge? Hmmm....just thinking of good names.

Only positive people can write on MY thread. Others can apply their negativity elsewhere. I'm opened for debate not dismissing wholly and name checking names that only have meaning in England, the Dark Country.

Neal Casal is amazing................AMERICANA folk blues springsteen hybrid.

Sorry old chap I do believe you have made a CATEGORY ERROR. Twice. This is either total genius or abject stupidity on your part. I suspect it's actually a little bit of both.

gnac = OK!! but i only heard it once!! it is not really "my thing", tho i know wire types who wd drool. it is very careful, which in some moods i will like and in others be impatient with.

i "cleared out" because i promised to buy a record and listen, micheal so don't be unfair!! (also i promised not to fight you just purely for the sake of it = making an effort so don't use that against me) (i was going to say "behind my back" and then i remembered the "doompatrol: classic or dud thread" so ahem scratch that, i am no angel)

anger and negativity (and jokes) are also part of the fan experience: and therefore part of the glue of music => you have to talk about them too (sometimes), and express them in order to explore them, and maybe overcome them; one of the things rock is better at than any other music is complex love-mixed-with-hostility (especially to "things you have grown out of")

other thoughts: i came here (not this thread) because it was so UN-NEGATIVE. "charlatan" is a good word: *all* artists are (sometimes) also charlatans, except VERY bad ones.

because i am super-perverse and tiresome, i often only become interested in things when my friends start to dislike them: ie it is the negativity of loved ones which turns me on; there is no point in saying "don't worry be happy" at that, it is far too late for me to change, it is who i am.

unless i have a break-through revelation with gnac later in the weekend — i mean, beyond "this is quite nice", which is what i feel about EVERYTHING i am not very interested in — i shall not ruin this thread for everyone else with my complicated topsyturvy attitudes again soon.

(micheal, setting the rules for posting on the thread = then saying hah everyone has left thus i am proved right on all points = being a little bit controlling)

(haha but so was posting that "i want I WANT" thing: we are very alike you and i, that is of course why we fight) (and why i started to like you) (irritated by => likes, this is my pattern)

Suzy your comment about genius and stupuidity, it's the same thing. And walking the fineline is what I do. Cause I don't know what I am doing.

Mark S., yeah, your no angel and yeah you wear your hypocrisey like soiled pants but that makes me like you more. Good one that you actually listened to gnac.

And in hate there is love.

Off to pass out now.

I like Mark S and Suzy cause they are total bastards. You are too wishy washy Gareth depending way too much on good hair and looks. The vicious bastards make me laugh cause I am not intellectual and am proud of it. I'm a stupuid shit from the ghetto having the time of his life.

And I'm a talented, surrealist rubbish writer of trash for everyone in Levittown. Blah blah blah.

The reason I havent mentioned you is cause I don't think about what you say.

If any of you met me in real life it would be a surprise. Not that I would like to meet anyofyou cause I am reclusive.

Hahahaha.

What next?

Who knows maybe there will be a thread on I Love Everything about how everyone hates me then I will know that I am successful or the doompatrol: classic or dud thread can be revived. But I am getting good advice from the classics that have been there and done that for the long term. Who knows? I'm happy, though and when I'm happy I write.

The Zephrys are a beautiful band. Sean O'Hagan does string arrangements that make me cry.

Reading Chuck Pahlinuk (hahhaa, I spelt that wrong) he is queer genius.

(other than El Vez and Selofane 74 of course).

I've got all the singles and two thirds of the albums and I (gasp!) actually like most of them. The New album and the Airport ones I could do without but I adore pretty much all the others..

Just eating my words. Come on - the Hives are top ten, Poptones has been saved. Like 'em or not, you have to admit it, the man McGee has pulled it off again. So it's a fair cop. I was wrong! I should be purged for snickering!

or should that be "snookering"?

I bought the Montgolfier Brothers and I like it: it reminds me of Trembling Blue Stars, very considered and delicate, but it also suggests what TBS would be like if I didn't have the unsettling feeling Bob Wratten is a mentalist. The instrumentals I like a lot - of the vocal tracks the standout is the horribly clammy one where he's trying to get a conversation with his gf round to the point where he can break up with her but he can't do it (at least I think thats what's happening).

I can't see myself listening to it more than once every three or four months, but that's OK: still money well spent.

AHHAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

TOP FUCKING TEN YOU STUPUID FUCKERS!

IN YER FACE!

*calming down*

but still..

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

english, don't you love them, hypocrites, the lot of ya!

Another year to put the bellrays in the english top ten? sure...

HAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHA

I was right and I DO believe you were wrong.

HAAHAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHAH

And if you haven't worked out who "Terry Shannon" is by now, you're even stupider than I originally thought.

Jesus Christ. That's where apologising gets you on this board.

Well, whatever. I'll bow out of this thread now - whatever he says, he says; I can't be bothered with it/him.

To Gareth - man o man, you will love the new montgolfiers. Better than seventeen stars? Yes. Musically it's deep material, not deep, but more as the touches are very ummm....what's the word? It's more involved musically but I think it's cause the partership has been going for quite some time now. There are now gnac musical interludes, though. Roger sings on all of the tracks....but he is a fantastic story teller so you cannot blame him.

It's called 'The Word is Flat'. Roger's voice is throatier though than on seventeen stars. You just have to hear it, Gareth. It is a strange combination between gilberto/smiths/tyde/felt I dunno every good band out there but uniquely montgolfiers.

I really do not take myself very seriously on this board. 'Cept to say that the Montgolfier's album - dunno - it's a classic. and definitely is coming out. I'll ask when and tell you later.

Gareth - long time no see! Hope you are well. You seem to have been getting about a bit which is nice.

Paul - you still have my World of Twist album you bastard!! just kidding, I'm sure I'll get it off you at some point.

Poptones seems to me to be slowly coming to a halt - but I could be wrong. Joe F is doing all his Revola stuff through Cherry Red, Ian & Alan are enjoying the millionaire lifestyle of Must Destroy movers and shakers, the Hives are signed to Universal (right?)... all of which doesn't leave much for Poptones itself. But you never know...

what does Alan do at Must Destroy? he seems to get around a fair bit, what with his A&Ring at Telstar as well..

Finally, is Alan McGee and the retro-rock ethos he espouses responsible for the mediocrity of NME sanctioned rock?

Loaded questions all!!!

http://poptones.co.uk/

I wonder how they survive since they are so low profile now. I'm sure that Others CD sold next to nothing.

-- Norman Phay (k-ra...), November 23rd, 2001.

Hate Uncut. I hate its ethos more with every issue I see.

-- Robin Carmody (robi...), November 23rd, 2001.

This is my favourite part of the thread.

The problem was, their promos were easier to find/purchase than their actual albums.

OH GOD CARMODY

Some threads are just not worth reviving.

And some threads should be seen and not heard.