buck 65 - "the more i've educated myself about music, the more i hate hip-hop"

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

quotes excerpted from kerrang interview
(via okayplaya forums/hiphopmusic.com)

"I now hate hip hop, the more I've educated myself about music, the more I've grown to hate it. I don’t use that word lightly, either."

"The change on the new record is me taking steps to try to be regarded as a proper songwriter and not just someone who writes lyrics. Those efforts could lend the idea that ive commercialised what I do, but when I think of the greatest records I've heard, everything from nirvana to my bloody valentine to miles davis and elvis, there's a lot you can do within the traditional framework of traditional songwriting."

"The people behind hip hop don’t know anything about music theory or have any appreciation for other kinds of music outside hip hop. I challenge anyone to show me a case where theres actual musicality."

kerrang: Explain why you – a rapper –hate hip hop?

"Every genre of music you can think of has more shit in it than it does gold; what I'm thinking about is the fact that I would be surprised if anyone could show me someone who's made a hip hop record who could actually read music."

kerrang: Why should musicians have to be able to read music?

"Because I'm a snob and that’s what I'm looking for and what I appreciate. I'm as elitist a bastard as you could possibly find."

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:10 (twenty years ago)

links:
http://www.okayplayer.com/dcforum/lesson/120523.html
http://www.hiphopmusic.com/archives/000631.html

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago)

i'm not surprised, but still, this is depressing.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:12 (twenty years ago)

That's his (shitty) album going out of the window.

― Jimmybommy JimmyK'KANG (Nick Southall), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:13 (twenty years ago)

buck in 2003: "I'm working a list of my 100 favorite albums of all time. It's hard. But I'm almost there. I'll share it with you when I'm done. Rolling Stone magazine just came out with their list of the 500 "Greatest Albums of All Time". It's interesting. All the same ones are there. Lots of Beatles and Dylan in the top ten. The Beach Boys. The Stones. Bob Marley. Miles Davis. Nirvana. You know... I agree that all these albums are very important and we should own all of them. It's important. I've said it a million times, but what I hope to achieve the most in this world, is to make a record that would appear on a list like that some day. I may never. Heck, probably won't. But that's my motivation. You may say, what's the use. Those lists are so arbitrary or dumb or whatever. But the fact is, all the same albums always appear at the tops of these lists. That must mean something... And how must it feel to be one of those artists? What could be a greater accomplishment than that?

Anyway, what I can do, is give you my top ten for this year. It goes like this:

1. Alan Lomax - Blues Songbook
2. Bonnie 'Prince' Billy - Master and Everyone
3. Yeah Yeah Yeahs - Fever To Tell
4. Bic Runga - Beautiful Collision
5. the White Stripes - Elephant
6. The Kills - Keep On Your Mean Side
7. Roscoe Holcomb - Untamed Sense of Control
8. The Strokes - Room on Fire
9. Radiohead - Hail To The Thief
10. Broadcast - Ha Ha Sound"

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:15 (twenty years ago)

Everything's comin' up indie.

― nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:17 (twenty years ago)

what a dick. regardless, i can never loathe buck65 due to the interview with him i once read where he said he got a hard-on every time he looked at the cover of ladytron's "softcore jukebox"

― Felonious Drunk (Felcher), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

ack - so sad

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:22 (twenty years ago)

i blame Geir

― jake b. (cerybut), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:28 (twenty years ago)

maybe he's feeling the pressure of being named "Hot Indie Rapper" a couple issues back in Rolling Stone, for the always spot-on Hot List issue

― Gregory T (tubesocks), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

This totally cracks me up, for some reason. Wow. Is this the first instance ever of an artist basically saying that he is going to tool his future to the impressing of music critics?? It almost seems like a parody of the neurotic self-importance that hundreds of artists have succumbed to before, except he's being so BLATANT about it. It's like he's saying he's going to turn into Nick Hornby before our eyes! And thing is, I really like a lot of his music. I'll expect to like it a lot less from now on, but who knows? Maybe I'll be surprised.

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

So who USED to be his favorite rappers? Did he have any? Now I'm curious. (He supposdly has a gigantic record collection, but that top 10 looks pretty pathetic!!)

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago)

isnt this like andre3000 saying in interviews that he stopped listening to hip hop and was more into the ramones, white stripes, etc etc.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

oh canada.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:40 (twenty years ago)

Is this the first instance ever of an artist basically saying that he is going to tool his future to the impressing of music critics??

the irony is that reading this all I could think of is all the critic fans he has that he'll be pissing off!

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:41 (twenty years ago)

"The people behind hip hop don’t know anything about music theory or have any appreciation for other kinds of music outside hip hop. (my emphasis)

I think the second part of the sentence is far more deluded from the first. That's way more elitist than anything else he said.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago)

er ... deluded *than* the first.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:45 (twenty years ago)

chuck: buck hosted a pretty influential nova scotia hip-hop college radio show back in the day. this was in the early 90s (i think) so you'd be hard pressed to find playlists anymore, but as far as i'm aware, his hip-hop knowledge goes (went?) far and deep.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Aren't most critics pro-rap these days?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:46 (twenty years ago)

haha NO

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:47 (twenty years ago)

yeah, strangely most aren't, although many'll make token gestures of support to some 'positive' or 'progressive' hip-hop act, although the way they talk about these guys you can tell they don't listen to them either

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:49 (twenty years ago)

yeah, I guess I tend to ignore how old school rockist regional critics are. But if the blogosphere is any indication, this is going to be a more and more antiquated concept.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:52 (twenty years ago)

I mean, fuck, I'm nobody's hip-hop head and this stuff strikes me as hysterical.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:53 (twenty years ago)

if you threw out all yr records of people who couldn't read music, all you'd have left is burt bachrach and poison.

― g--ff (gcannon), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:53 (twenty years ago)

OTM.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:54 (twenty years ago)

He just wants his write-up in No Depression, dammit!

He is a pretty lousy rapper-qua-rapper, but he's a very impressive hip hop artist.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:55 (twenty years ago)

also there's something really weird about someone wanting to be a "proper songwriter" and big upping Nirvana and MBV.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

blount otm - that's exactly what's happening with the new k-os record in canada right now. dude makes some empty gestures re: the death of hip-hop, samples "funky drummer" (have you guys heard this track? there's this one break...) and couches it all in wyclef-style eclectism and apparently he's on some next level shit!

(xpost)

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:57 (twenty years ago)

Wait, this is off the topic, but why is he being interviewed in Kerrang?? He only has one heavy metal song!!!!

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 16:59 (twenty years ago)

On one level it seems that the structural elements of hip-hop are being more and more incorporated into the underground and mainstream, but on another it seems like standard "hip-hop" is inspiring a lot of disdain. I'm guessing it's gonna be another "disco sucks but everything on the radio has a drum machine and the kids are into new wave" deal.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:01 (twenty years ago)

and as one of the dudes on the hiphopmusic.com comments box alludes to, didn't white critics use that same "but they can't read music" attack to diminish much of early/mid-period jazz?

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago)

Obviously part of what's funny about this is that hip-hop has always made a POINT of knowing about, and using, all other kinds of music (except for a few years here and there when it decided to climb up its own butthole, anyway)..But anyway, doesn't Timbaland also say hip-hop is boring now, so he only listens to bluegrass and Norah Jones and Radiohead and stuff? Maybe they should make a record together!

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:03 (twenty years ago)

I love both k-os and Buck 65, and I love them as hip hop artists. I think k-os's new record works in ways the Wyclef's never been able to (on account of Wyclef being a corny MF). It's weird that they're both from Canada (which has a rock crit enclave of aging rockists who take their cues from B!11board and usually "don't get" any music that couldn't have been made by Neil Young--present company excepted) and both filled with such corny Cdn angst w/r/t defining themselves as what they're not.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:04 (twenty years ago)

toronto's got at least two rockcrit minds i respect a great deal

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:05 (twenty years ago)

does Rush fit into this canuck aesthetic anywhere?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago)

I mean, hip-hop is certainly way more eclectic in incorporating sounds from elsewhere than most of the genres Buck seems to be opting for now, judging from that list!

xpost

Scott Woods and Phil Dellio are from Toronto, and they are both great.

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:06 (twenty years ago)

and if Timba made that "Headsprung" track than at the very least he doesn't feel the need to put his hip-hop disdain into practice, thank god.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:07 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I didn't say all cdn rockcrits were fuddy-duds, just that there's a bunch who believe OLP will rise again to save us all Keshia Chante.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:08 (twenty years ago)

yeah huck i don't know if canada's rockcrit contingent is that qualitatively different from america's as a whole - i can think of at least five fantastic thinkers in toronto alone.

(xpost keshia chante > olp!!)

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:11 (twenty years ago)

Aaron Wherry, in the Nat'l Post, is usally pretty good too.

But, I don't know, maybe it's more out west, or maybe it's that I keep having run ins with the worst. But, um, yeah, I have some specific beefs with some maybe not-so significant rockcrits who perpetuate the myth that hip hop is only legitimate when it apes singer/songwriter conventions.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:16 (twenty years ago)

yeah Woods and Dellio ARE great but chuck if you read papers like the Toronto Star you'll notice that even if the critic is good (Ben Rayner), some moldy old chump will fawn over whatever Cancon default choice is being touted this month. boring critics the world over may have repped Ron Sexsmith like the second coming for far too long, but Boring Canadian critics will be writing 'why has the world ignored this genius' pieces until we are all dead. Huck OTM. (and wasn't Tim leading the charge for the greatness of Coldplay, along with Beyonce and Puffy and god knows who else?)

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:16 (twenty years ago)

whoa xpost

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:17 (twenty years ago)

hahahahaha Ron Sexsmith

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

i mean goddamn when I finally heard that guy...

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

ps I dig Keshia Chante she needs dance (or at least movement) classes.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:18 (twenty years ago)

fuck i was once dragged to a ron sexsmith show and dude played like every one of his songs! it went on for like 4 hours

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:19 (twenty years ago)

"influential nova scotia hip-hop college radio show "

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:20 (twenty years ago)

changed Sloan's life

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

haha

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:21 (twenty years ago)

is that what turned them into Chicago?

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:22 (twenty years ago)

xpost, k-os is such a corny fuxor. that funk drummer sampling son of his could be so good if he didnt have that lameo wyclef guitar interruption in the middle of it.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:23 (twenty years ago)

*song of his.

― dickvandyke (dickvandyke), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:23 (twenty years ago)

i used to like ron sexsmith, but i stopped paying attention around his third record, which was OK. he was always a little bit too, uh, mushy for me though.

― amateur!!st, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:23 (twenty years ago)

no, it was when Chris Murphy was neutered by an angry fan on the set of the video for "Everything You've Done Wrong"

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago)

"when Buck 65 played Endtroducing... I was like...you, Patrick, they done changed the game on us."

- Chris Murphy

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago)

1) Has nobody here seen B65 in concert? He's been saying this stuff for years.

2) Has B65 actually made a hip hop album since he stopped calling himself Stinkin' Rich?

― Vic Funk, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago)

i mean goddamn when I finally heard that guy...

One song was more than enough for me. Argh.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:24 (twenty years ago)

whoa Chris Murphy double xpost

― Dave M. (rotten03), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:25 (twenty years ago)

bottom line i think is that critwise canada has a pretty normal mix of original thinkers, rock crit fuddyduds, indie championers, etc etc

(that said, i'm hard-pressed to come up with anyone who might qualify as our equivalent to morley/ewing/frere jones w/r/t to taking a populist angle. scott would be the obvious nominee but he doesn't write enough!!)

(zillion xposts)

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:26 (twenty years ago)

I've seen him in concert and had several interviews/conversations with him. He talks a lot, and says a lot of things that he may or may not mean. I mean, he's a killer on the turntables, and he loves country music. So what. Maybe he was laughing at Kerrang. But I think he sincerely (and wrongheadedly) wants to be loved by the greyhairs.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago)

Blount is so otm, and it's a really astute observation to say "the way they talk about those guys you can tell they don't listen to them either".

So fucking true, it's this tokenism thing and they sound so so so far from enthused. I mean really if you love a record and the best you can do is say "this isn't crap like all commercial hiphop/dance" then you're either a shit writer or you don't like the record.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:28 (twenty years ago)

"influential nova scotia hip-hop college radio show "

there's a scene there, gear. it's not nyc but music's getting made.

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:29 (twenty years ago)

Who Buck SHOULD be listening to is Tom T. Hall, whose best story songs were was like Buck's best story songs only better. (I *did* see Buck live, by the way, opening for Northern State har har, and don't remember him saying anything anti-hip hop, though he did give his pedal steel player $50 or so on stage to reimburse him for gas money. Supposedly he has made Rollie Fingers jokes in other shows, as well. I don't really care if his albums are some silly purist's definition of "hip-hop." But I do wish he rapped less stiffly.)

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

Plus there are a bunch of hip-hop dudes who can read music! Is Buck borrowing fact checkers from Bill O'Reilly?

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:30 (twenty years ago)

Jale should reunite in some kind of Northern State like capacity.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:31 (twenty years ago)

>i'm hard-pressed to come up with anyone who might qualify as our equivalent to morley/ewing/frere jones w/r/t to taking a populist angle. <

You need to get ahold of some back issues of *Radio On*, dude!!!

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago)

yeah Phil Delillo is the shit (I love his 3EB review). Is he still writing much?

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:33 (twenty years ago)

yeah i really like phil's stuff but i rarely see his name around anymore..

― mark p (Mark P), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:34 (twenty years ago)

try living in Ireland dude

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:36 (twenty years ago)

Try living in Regina, dude.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:37 (twenty years ago)

try living with wolves in the arctic dude.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:40 (twenty years ago)

Try living in Rockford IL

― Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago)

hey chuck do you have any issues of radio on and why music sucks you could maybe xerox and mail to me (or maybe miccio) so we can transcribe them things and get them online?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:41 (twenty years ago)

Try living in Rockford's Filing Cabinet.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:42 (twenty years ago)

try living on an island with kate taylor, ben taylor, liv taylor, james taylor, carly simon, peter simon, harvey weinstein, and ted danson.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:42 (twenty years ago)

fantasy island!

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago)

fantasy island! aka Newfoundland!

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:44 (twenty years ago)

who's liv taylor? is she like a liv tyler/liz taylor super-combo?

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:44 (twenty years ago)

liv=livingston. james' bro.

― scott seward (scott seward), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:45 (twenty years ago)

Actually she's a Liv Ullman/Zachary Taylor cyborg

xpost

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:46 (twenty years ago)

fantasy island is just a name. it's actually more a peninsula.

― Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:47 (twenty years ago)

Try working at a newspaper where the Xerox machine never works.

(that was for cinniblount)

― chuck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:48 (twenty years ago)

> fantasy island! aka Newfoundland!
Really?! As a resident of St. John's, I can likely make a good argument against this.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:56 (twenty years ago)

Are you saying that there aren't any short people who talk funny and get excited about airplanes on Nfld? You clearly don't know my former roommate.

― Huck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 17:58 (twenty years ago)

ha ha ha.

Da plane, by'e! Da plane!

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:01 (twenty years ago)

i am very pleased with the derailment progression of this thread.

― dysøn (dyson), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:10 (twenty years ago)

Buck would've wanted it this way.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:13 (twenty years ago)

http://store1.yimg.com/I/petmarket_1806_75032071.jpg

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:15 (twenty years ago)

Look, I'm a well-coifed carny barker!

― Huck/Buck, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:26 (twenty years ago)

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/staff/tardif/perso/tom_waits.jpg

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:29 (twenty years ago)

Tom Waits likes hip-hop!

― djdee2005, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:41 (twenty years ago)

I *did* see Buck live, by the way, opening for Northern State har har, and don't remember him saying anything anti-hip hop

This is probably where his hatred came from, then.

― Vic Funk, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago)

haha

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:54 (twenty years ago)

but seriously, fuck this turd. the two tracks i've heard from his forthcoming "opus" were straight garbage.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:55 (twenty years ago)

*thread lock moment*

― fxk, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:56 (twenty years ago)

http://store1.yimg.com/I/petmarket_1806_78552976.jpg

― Jesse Fuchs (Jesse Fuchs), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 20:57 (twenty years ago)

what a dick. regardless, i can never loathe buck65 due to the interview with him i once read where he said he got a hard-on every time he looked at the cover of ladytron's "softcore jukebox"

...fair enough. have you SEEN that cover? it's nice...

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 1 September 2004 21:28 (twenty years ago)

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:v7o20rnal48p

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 2 September 2004 05:42 (twenty years ago)

when's Buck gonna cut the (c)rap and write a book

― nick.K (nick.K), Thursday, 2 September 2004 07:22 (twenty years ago)

there were some seriously mellow Chris Rea moments on the last album. and the greyhairs comment hurts bad mofo's. aint all listening to clapton when the hairline recedes you know.

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 2 September 2004 08:00 (twenty years ago)

Sorry Mark, 'twas a generalization, and a bit of an unfair one. Some of the people whose music-opinions I respect/enjoy the most are both grey and balding!

― Huck, Thursday, 2 September 2004 14:10 (twenty years ago)

But anyway, doesn't Timbaland also say hip-hop is boring now, so he only listens to bluegrass and Norah Jones and Radiohead and stuff?

I am so looking forward to Timbaland's bluegrass period.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:04 (twenty years ago)

Dude the last Bubba Sparxx album!

― djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:06 (twenty years ago)

Not Appalachian enough.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 2 September 2004 15:07 (twenty years ago)

Hello. This is Buck 65 writing in a pre-emptive attempt to address the little controversy brewing over my recent Kerrang! interview. If you haven't heard about it yet, you might soon. Basically, in the interview I said that hip hop people are ignorant, have no appreciation for other genres of music and that I'd be surprised if anyone could show me an example of a rapper that could read music. I'm apologizing for all that. I lost my cool on tape which is never good. The journalist was provoking me, calling me a sell-out and a whore. I was trying to make a point by playing devil's advocate, but I went way overboard. No hint of irony or roll-playing or intelligence came across in the story. Now I just look like an idiot. I take it back. I don't really believe any of that. I don't think being able to read music is a concern. Most of my favorite music was made by non-educated musicians. It doesn't matter. I still have heavy criticisms of most hip hop, but I really didn't make them well on this particular day. I put my foot in my mouth and I'm apologizing for that.

http://www.exclaim.ca/index.asp?layid=227&csid1=2268&csid2=0

― djdee2005, Thursday, 2 September 2004 23:36 (twenty years ago)

eek

― cutty (mcutt), Thursday, 2 September 2004 23:47 (twenty years ago)

he does a killer breakdown of how to immiatate(sp?) mick jagger

― La Monte (La Monte), Thursday, 2 September 2004 23:57 (twenty years ago)

what do you mean, la monte?

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Friday, 3 September 2004 00:08 (twenty years ago)

J.D.Considine in living in Toronto too now shocker (to some).

― Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 3 September 2004 01:16 (twenty years ago)

what a half-asssed apology

― Symplistic (shmuel), Friday, 3 September 2004 03:39 (twenty years ago)

Is Buck 65 getting career advice from Ryan Adams?

― grapeshine (grapeshine), Friday, 3 September 2004 03:56 (twenty years ago)

ethan to thread...

― doomie x, Friday, 3 September 2004 08:53 (twenty years ago)

i reckon fair play to the man, the apology reads genuine. far better than the usual stubborn arrogance in the world of beats and rhymes.

― mark e (mark e), Friday, 3 September 2004 08:56 (twenty years ago)

what a half-asssed apology

I have no idea what you'd consider sincere. The guy claims that he was provoked, and when his quotations were printed in the magazine, clearly there were no suggestions that he was being ironic or anything like that. Interesting that you don't have a problem with the half-assed interviewer or the half-assed article.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Friday, 3 September 2004 10:45 (twenty years ago)

jeez - a lot of you guys can say you like the sounds satanic fascist scandinavian death metal bands like and can easily disassociate the disgusting politics from the art, but if someone says they don't ke that holy of holies "commercial music" or commit the cardinal sin of "endorsing the canon" he's critically lynched - this is fucking hilarious! sort yerselves out for god's sake! me, i think it's kinda fun that i can disagree with a lot of what he thinks (and he's said this shit for a long time) and still love albums like square and talkin honky blues.

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 11:19 (twenty years ago)

Oh well!

Buck 65's albums are kind of OK but really, Deliverance kind of trumped his entire career.

― The Lex (The Lex), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:29 (twenty years ago)

deliverance is very very different to anything he does though

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 11:53 (twenty years ago)

i went to shops today to see who was the interviewer involved .. but the current issue i found didn't have any buck65 in it .. unless hidden deep ..

― mark e (mark e), Friday, 3 September 2004 11:59 (twenty years ago)

clearly
there were no suggestions that he was being ironic or anything like that

wtf?
what about this?
"Because I'm a snob and that’s what I'm looking for and what I appreciate. I'm as elitist a bastard as you could possibly find."

― Huck 65, Friday, 3 September 2004 13:49 (twenty years ago)

1) He's taken a trendy meme (that hiphop evolved not out of r'n'b but from jazz) all the way down to an (inevitable?) reductio ad absurdum.

2) Like, say, Paul Westerburg around the time he lost his muse, Buck 65 seems to have lost interest in and love for the genre in which he himself works. Says more about the state of Buck 65 than about the state of hiphop.

But what's the reference above to "regional" critics ("yeah, I guess I tend to ignore how old school rockist regional critics are)? What are "regional" critics? Critics who live in places you don't care about?

― MV, Friday, 3 September 2004 16:13 (twenty years ago)

good point, huck. I'm an idiot.

x-post.

― Jonathan (Jonathan), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago)

But what's the reference above to "regional" critics ("yeah, I guess I tend to ignore how old school rockist regional critics are)? What are "regional" critics? Critics who live in places you don't care about?

the national music glossies I read are pretty pro-rap. I was just saying I forget that the whole "rap is fad/rap is superficial" perspective still exists elsewhere. I said regional critics, cuz it tends to be in smaller circles. Anything "pop" tends to be rap-friendly (if not hyperenthusiastic) because rap is pop.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 16:43 (twenty years ago)

Gold sticker for most OTM of the year.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 3 September 2004 17:43 (twenty years ago)

Hahaha stelfox that was awesome. I agree obv.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 18:12 (twenty years ago)

Word.

― Huck, Friday, 3 September 2004 18:18 (twenty years ago)

Although I should mention that I've never really listened to buck's music - I just agree w/ Stelfox in the abstract.

I am annoyed by the condescending/elitist attitude, but it wouldn't keep me from enjoying his music. It certainly doesn't keep me from enjoying, say, underground hip-hop on the whole.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 19:29 (twenty years ago)

well it was certainly the worst-typed post of the year, but forgive me, i was in a bit of a rush at work (and, incidentally, i am now a little bit drunk so this might not be much better!). what it was supposed to say was this: "jeez - a lot of you guys can say you like the music satanic fascist scandinavian death metal bands make from a "listen to the sounds not the meaning" sonic perspective and say that "clever" people can easily disassociate the disgusting politics from the art, but if someone says he doesn't like that holy of holies "commercial music" or commits the cardinal sin of "endorsing the canon" he's critically lynched - this is fucking hilarious! sort yerselves out for god's sake! me, i think it's kinda fun that i can disagree with a lot of what he thinks (and he's said this shit for a long time, btw, it's nothing new) and still love albums like square and talkin honky blues."

i mean he's said something pretty daft, and admits to it, re the people in hip hop not knowing what real music is and i think many of the things he chooses to laud are pretty wack, too, but he's entitled to an opinion and seeing someone saying "i liked him but will probably like him less now" is ridiculous based on previous discussions we've had before on this board about that old "do you have to like the artist to artist like the art?" chestnut. if people are going to make take the position of being able to draw these lines in the sand between the motivation and the end product, then at least apply the idea something like consistently, otherwise it's nothing more than a pose – then again i find a lot of the ilm theoretical orthodoxy little more than a pose, anyway. something tells me there woldn't be such outrage if it was the aforementioned scandinavian nazis, shagged out irrelevant hair metal band or shitty pop group saying something silly.

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Related subject - was Nellie McKay taken to task here when she said she didn't like rap music in an Onion interview?

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 19:54 (twenty years ago)

I used to not like Nellie McKay, but now that she hates rap, I love her!

(sarcasm)

― Huck, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:06 (twenty years ago)

dave, hair metallers, teen poppers, and nsbm bands attack each other in print all the time, and we have just as much fun with them.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:10 (twenty years ago)

and people who stroll into threads that have been 75% "lighthearted wackiness" bitching about "theoretical orthodoxy" and "poses" should probably attend to the plank in their own eyes first.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago)

also, one more time: fuck buck 65.

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago)

nsbm bands attack each other in print all the time

fucking sell-outs!

at least it was moderately diverting when they were murdering each other and burning places of worship!

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:14 (twenty years ago)

Nellie McKay taken to task here when she said she didn't like rap music in an Onion interview?

Nellie McKay's logic made more (if not complete) sense than Buck's. It's not against the law to not enjoy rap, ya know.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:15 (twenty years ago)

haha buck 65 should burn down lil jon's house

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:18 (twenty years ago)

the roof is on fire

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Nellie McKay's logic made more (if not complete) sense than Buck's. It's not against the law to not enjoy rap, ya know.

Yet she attempts to incorporate elements of hip-hop into her work, and her logic was similarly condescending if i remember correctly. Biting the hand that feeds you and all that.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:20 (twenty years ago)

Insert TLC joke here.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:21 (twenty years ago)

she doesn't hate hip-hop as a medium (like, duh), she doesn't enjoy what she considers to be the typical efforts.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:22 (twenty years ago)

TLC joke referred to house burning obviously.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:23 (twenty years ago)

nellie's rap quote: I can rarely listen to a whole record of it, because musically, it's very formulaic, and oftentimes it doesn't have the best hooks on every track. I like my music to be very musical, you know? In terms of content, a lot of it's crap, with all the sexism and homophobic bullshit. It's incredible how rappers are always preaching nonconformity—you know, "I'm just gonna go my own way and be my own man and blah blah blah"—but they're the first ones to do so many things that they have to do. They have to do that hip-hop thing, a certain way of walking, and it's so conformist. I mean, way to buck the system! But I do think there's a great deal of politics mixed in. Their reference to the real world is much better than most, particularly a lot of women who seem like all they do is sing about love. Love is such a fleeting emotion. It's such a small part of the things you do in your life. I don't understand why that's all they concentrate on, except that that's what they're encouraged to do, because if you keep thinking about love, you'll be less of a challenge. I like that about rap. It's got power to it.

you can say she's overgeneralizing, but it's not entirely off the mark or devoid of insight.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:24 (twenty years ago)

i do think it's a crime (well not a crime, but a bit dim) to say "i hate" any broad genre of music, especially one as sweeping and varied as hip-hop. it's like saying you don't like rock or "dance" music. i mean i could give considerably less than a shit for 90 per cent of country music, but some of it i love. it's easy to say that you don't like certain micro-genres but i wouldn't trust the opinion of anyone who said this of massive, sweeping umbrella groups like, say, reggae.

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:30 (twenty years ago)

now that Buck has retracted his statement, is anybody saying they hate rap?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:34 (twenty years ago)

you can say she's overgeneralizing, but it's not entirely off the mark or devoid of insight.

Dude most college students I know have the exact same "insight," which isn't really insightful at all.

Rap's not musical
Rap is full of homophobia and sexism therefore not worth listening to
musically it's formulaic
"a certain way of walking"

etc.

Honestly it felt like she wasn't just talking about hip-hop but race in general (is she walking in some way unique to the rest of the world?! How creative of her.)

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:35 (twenty years ago)

Honestly it felt like she wasn't just talking about hip-hop but race in general

that is pure bullshit.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:36 (twenty years ago)

She just dissed "women singers" for writing only about love, does she hate all women? Read a whole paragraph, put it in context. Don't just highlight the red light phrases.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:38 (twenty years ago)

haha i dunno dude..."a certain way of walking"? that's like one step from "why do they all talk like that?".

― jess (dubplatestyle), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:38 (twenty years ago)

jess otm

― djde2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:40 (twenty years ago)

Also should mention that I disliked McKay well before I read this interview and the interview has done nothing to change my opinion.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:41 (twenty years ago)

she's pretty much talking about natural rhythm

― stelfox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:42 (twenty years ago)

Also should mention that I disliked McKay well before I read this interview and the interview has done nothing to change my opinion.

that was pretty obvious.

are you guys saying that rap as portrayed in the mainstream media (which is how she and most people hear it, I'm guessing she's not on the Anticon promo list) DOESN'T scream conformity?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:44 (twenty years ago)

by your guys "walk like this" logic she also thinks black guys be more sensible than white ladies

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:45 (twenty years ago)

and give her credit for discussing the positive values of rap proper rather than pining for more Jurassic 5s.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:47 (twenty years ago)

all she said was she doesn't listen to it often because she finds the full-lengths less than satisfying and she gets annoyed by the macho "i'm different like everybody else" pose. Big crime.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:49 (twenty years ago)

i for one will let her have my place on any number of undie hip-hop promo lists in a heartbeat if it'll cheer her up (this is not an entirely altruistic gesture btw)

― stelox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:50 (twenty years ago)

Didn't Lil' Jon used to be a Dead Kennedys fan? Buck 65 can eat me; he's been hanging out with indie college radio fuxxxx too long

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:50 (twenty years ago)

Lil Jon was also into PiL!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:50 (twenty years ago)

also black women do not have the monopoly on singing about love. it's not a small part of life either.

― stelox, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:51 (twenty years ago)

TIME TO C SOME SOME Ts!

http://discorder.citr.ca/features/buck65.jpg http://files.loudmusic.dk/covers/ladytronsoftcorejukebox.jpg

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:51 (twenty years ago)

Lil' Jon's next album should be POST CRUNK HAHAHAHA I AM FUNNE

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:52 (twenty years ago)

I wish I had a Lil' Jon voice-sampler (like Bart Simpson's "kiss my ass! go to hell. go to hell" gizmo) so that next time I throw on "Death Disco" I could add some "HEY!"s and "OKAAYS!"

stelfox, she was saying women of all races in general sing about love. her phrasing is awkward but she was including Alanis Morrissette, trust me.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:52 (twenty years ago)

she's saying THEY (rappers) have a better perception of reality than most, including women.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:53 (twenty years ago)

Alanis Morrissette

who she has opened for, along with the Barenaked Ladies and Sting (oy).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:54 (twenty years ago)

You mean like those Arnold Governator soundboard things?

― gainfully employed (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:54 (twenty years ago)

shucks, i think we should all hold hands, sing about love and have done with it.

― stelfx, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:54 (twenty years ago)

she sings about love too on her album, but I think she's right that its overplayed as a pop subject.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 20:55 (twenty years ago)

henceforth, i will be deleting a random letter from my name every post just so no one thinks my previous two were because i'm an idiot.

― stelfo, Friday, 3 September 2004 20:57 (twenty years ago)

can anyone link me to these taasty lil jon interviews? or are they in magazines?

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:04 (twenty years ago)

"corny indie stelfuxx"

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:05 (twenty years ago)

the one I read was in blender. And it rocked.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:06 (twenty years ago)

its funny that lil jon ACTS dumb in his songs, but comes off as really intelligent and Buck 65 does the opposite (I know, not a new revelation)

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:06 (twenty years ago)

m1cc1o do you suscribe to these magazines or do you just read them at barnes and noble like me?

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:07 (twenty years ago)

i get blender for free (i've written some stuff for them) and occasionally buy a spin when I get a sub and soda.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:08 (twenty years ago)

oh right. you are a writer.

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:09 (twenty years ago)

Miccio: If I found her whole "act" particularly iconoclastic rather than this sheltered white girl theater major vibe that she puts off, maybe i'd find her complaints about mainstream youth culture insightful. Like, if it was the 50s and Sun Ra said there weren't enough songs about rocket ships in mainstream jazz, I'd be interested in his opinion. But instead, she seems to avoid the fact that hip-hop fashion, culture and music is consistently ahead of the curve when it comes to mainstream culture. I don't see how hip-hop is any more conformist than yr standard indie kid, yr high school skater or yr sheltered theater brat.

xpost "Scratch" magazine had the great Lil Jon interview and the 2nd issue has a superb one w/ David Banner.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:10 (twenty years ago)

It's been months since I did anything for them though. I may be past my prime. The mags I just thumb through without ever buying are Magnet and Wire.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I don't see how hip-hop is any more conformist than yr standard indie kid, yr high school skater or yr sheltered theater brat.

well the interviewer asked what she thought of hip-hop, not that stuff. and she pointed out where it beats Lilith shit without being asked.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:11 (twenty years ago)

I was googling Scratch a while ago and got confused. Is it a UK magazine?

I got suckered into subscribing to Spin for a while by some charity orginization, but I had to cancel it when the covers had like Chris Carrabba, Dave Mathews and Ben Thursday on them.

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:13 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure she'd be happy to rip on emo fucks if she was asked, djdee.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:13 (twenty years ago)

Once again though, I can think of hundreds of characters in mainstream hip-hop with unique identities - Lil Jon for instance. And the fact that she didn't appreciate the irony of HER saying "they all walk the same" bothers me incredibly.

Although perhaps there's a video online of her walking so we can see her unique style.

xpost i don't think its uk, i'm pretty sure its U.S.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:14 (twenty years ago)

I probably should get a SPIN subscription (had one through high school and college), since buying three issues on the stand is more than a year's through sub, but I really don't want those Dashboard covers.

dude, Nellie McKay is WAY weirder than Lil Jon, who on TV (if not in Blender) is just a cartoon-sized version of what's already been around.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:16 (twenty years ago)

Really what it comes down to is what Dave stelfox said in the first place - speaking in such broad + sweeping terms is not a helpful way to discuss an entire genre that encompasses so many different styles and identities.

dude, Nellie McKay is WAY weirder than Lil Jon, who on TV (if not in Blender) is just a cartoon-sized version of what's already been around.

You must be joking.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:17 (twenty years ago)

"Sari" gets a lot more emotions and challenging concepts inside of it than "Throw Yo Hood Up." And neither of them can rap, really.

Why do I have a feeling you're not basing your concept of "weird" on their products?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:17 (twenty years ago)

Unless you mean a cartoon-sized version of "black guy who likes to party" in which case yes there is a precedent for that I suppose.

I like when jess called him an "apocolyptic muppet" or whatever it was in that one article.

Also lil jon's music is CONSIDERABLY more idiosyncratic than McKay's cocktail jazz.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:18 (twenty years ago)

have you heard her full album?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:19 (twenty years ago)

Yes.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:20 (twenty years ago)

Oh jesus, here we go. I'll be reading Spin at the grocery store, laterz.

― artdamages (artdamages), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:20 (twenty years ago)

and you don't think she's dropping a wider variety of lyrical science on that thing?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:21 (twenty years ago)

reference to the real world is much better than most

This is a good (if awkwardly phrased)point, and it captures something unique to hip-hop. Lots of her criticisms are cliched (though not necessarily false). The one thing that struck me as off was her point that mainstream rappers preach non-conformity; it's not a big theme. A lot of rappers preach individualism, but that's not quite the same thing. It's more about being the best than being unique (tho yes these are big generalizations and there are counterexamples blah blah blah).

― Symplistic (shmuel), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:21 (twenty years ago)

Lyrics are for liberal art major boring fucks!!! FUCK Y'ALL

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:23 (twenty years ago)

as I said from the beginning I don't think she's dead on, but she doesn't deserve a "shut up, bitch" treatment. For an allegedly 19-year-old cabaret wunderkind (and I KNOW she's older, that age thing pisses me off more than anything) that's as good answer as you can hope to "do you listen to hip-hop"?

haha, Jon what's your major?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:23 (twenty years ago)

Computer Science: Systems Track

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago)

in short, Nellie McKay's criticism of hip-hop > Buck 65's criticism of hip-hop, Li'l Jon > Nellie Mckay, Miccio generally OTM.

― Symplistic (shmuel), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:25 (twenty years ago)

I don't really want to argue about this any more but no I don't think she's doing anything particularly "weird," or when it is its so self-consciously "look how weird and eccentric i am, trying a rap verse!" that I find myself not enjoying it.

Besides that Stelfox just sent me some hot shit on the Phantom riddim and it rules. I'm just listening to "Moneymaker" on loop.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:26 (twenty years ago)

NERD.

and I love Lil Jon to death, but I've kinda noticed he's all about a couple simple parts overlapping beautifully musicwise (he learned it from PiL). I saw him working in the studio on that DVD. Idiosyncratic, yeah, (though when I heard DMX's "Party Up" for the first time like a year plus ago I assumed it was a new crunk production) but I don't see how he's more audacious than Nellie.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:27 (twenty years ago)

NERD was to Jon boy.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:27 (twenty years ago)

did you ever pay attention to the words themselves, djdee? The subject matter of "Sari" hops around a lot more than "Get Low."

And what's so weird about Lil Jon?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:29 (twenty years ago)

and Lil Jon is pretty self-consciously "look how excited and repetitive I am, screaming the same phrase in every song!"

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Lil' Jon is "weird" in the sense that he doesn't suck ass through a hose!

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Dude he's a ridiculously short man who wears ridiculous sunglasses, huge braids, oversized jerseys, screams all the time and has done some earth-rattling production work. (Compare "Goodies" to "Get Some Crunk in Yo System" to "Play No Games" for an example of how diverse his sound is)

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago)

Yea, but the Lil' Jon forumla works, while Nellie Mckay sucks all the time. xpostttt

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:32 (twenty years ago)

dude, "culo" means asshole in spanish. don't be so sure about that, Jon.

Dude he's a ridiculously short man who wears ridiculous sunglasses, huge braids, oversized jerseys, screams all the time and has done some earth-rattling production work.

a deaf Jermaine Depri.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:33 (twenty years ago)

and Nellie McKay is a 19-year-old cabaret artist who raps, sings about having a clone, raps about wage slavery (leaves in the parts where she stumbles over herself), thinks the Beatles are "perverts," dresses like Doris Day, curses up a storm, castrates guys for being posers and sex-crazed on one track, demands sex on another and pines for affection on another (she also recommends you buy a dog). Check out "Sari," "David," and "Waiter" for an example of how diverse her style is.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:36 (twenty years ago)

don't tell a guy who's got a minor in Fred Durst Studies what crazy is.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:37 (twenty years ago)

And it all comes across incredibly forced, like she feels the need to make herself more idiosyncratic than she actually is! At least that's been how I've reacted to it.

When Nellie McKay makes a song as good as [insert any lil jon song here] let me know :-p

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:37 (twenty years ago)

"agree to disagree"

anyway I'm going to dinner peace out.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 21:38 (twenty years ago)

And it all comes across incredibly forced, like she feels the need to make herself more idiosyncratic than she actually is!

YOU ARE DEFENDING A MAN WHO ALLOWS HIMSELF A TEN WORD VOCABULARY!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:38 (twenty years ago)

how can you accuse Nellie McKay of being "forced" and not a guy who would like the outside world to believe he's monosyllabic?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:40 (twenty years ago)

You're free to not like cabaret, dude, but don't pretend it's because its failing you on the weird-o-meter

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:42 (twenty years ago)

When Nellie McKay makes a song as good as [insert any LIMP BIZKIT song here] let me know :-p

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:43 (twenty years ago)

I will admit that Lil Jon has hit the highest peaks.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:46 (twenty years ago)

His music has a good beat and you can dance to it

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago)

Dude most college students I know have the exact same "insight," which isn't really insightful at all.

Rap's not musical
Rap is full of homophobia and sexism therefore not worth listening to
musically it's formulaic
"a certain way of walking"

Wow, nothing's changed in ten years.

I was having the exact same shouting matches when I was in high school and university, usually with kids who listened to blatantly rap-influenced stuff like Beck and Rage Against The Machine ("But, they're... they're different!!!" Arrrgggh.)

Anyway, it's interesting that others here have touched on Nellie McKay.

I saw her perform without having heard her record, and while I did enjoy her, and I dothink there is some appeal in her straight-white-girl-channels-Rufus-Wainwright schtick, I couldn't help but think that "Sari" will end up being praised by people who know nothing about hip-hop as an example of "Oh-look-how-that-dirty-rap-music-can-be-made-interesting-when-it's-done-by-a-truly-talented-musician". (No disrepect, manthony, this part isn't about you!)

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:52 (twenty years ago)

anybody who says that is ignoring the fact that she fucks up at least twice. Lil' Jon would have made her do another take. Frankly, I hope she works with a pop/rap producer next time. I love the album but it could use more oomph than Geoff "Imperial Boredom" Emerick's gonna offer.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:57 (twenty years ago)

I want some rapper to use her for the chorus hook! Nelly and Nellie!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 21:58 (twenty years ago)

anybody who says that is ignoring the fact that she fucks up at least twice.

I'm still not sure if that was done effect or not.

Frankly, I hope she works with a pop/rap producer next time.

I'd be curious to hear that. I like the record too, but the cabaret thing wears thin over time. She's already made the "capturing the vibe of musicians playing in a room, maaaaaaan" album, so she should get a little crazy next time.

I want some rapper to use her for the chorus hook! Nelly and Nellie!

With Nelly Furtado!

NELL 3 4 EVAHHHHH!!!

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 3 September 2004 22:03 (twenty years ago)

Haha I think it's really hilarious and awesome that this thread on Buck 65 being dumb devolved (evolved?) into Lil Jon vs. Nellie McKay.

Only on ILM.

― djdee2005, Friday, 3 September 2004 22:20 (twenty years ago)

GOD BLESS ALL WHO SAIL ON HER

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 3 September 2004 22:22 (twenty years ago)

I can't believe I missed the Nellie McKay thing here! her, opposite of Buck 65, I like more for her intent than the result. I don't think she's there yet, but I like that she's trying. And her lyrics are crazy-stupid. But if you like Durst, I guess they might be okay.

― Huck, Saturday, 4 September 2004 03:39 (twenty years ago)

can someone post links to the interviews where Lil' Jon sounds the most intelligent? I am not doubting, they just sound like they'd be awesome and I'd like to read them. And I find the Buck 65 thing dissapointing mainly cause in his Invisible Jukebox interview in the Wire he was talking about Harry Partch and the Nihilist Spasm Band(!!), but most of the things he says he likes in the upthread quotes are boring and gay.

― Daniel DiMAGGIO (Daniel DiMAGGIO), Saturday, 4 September 2004 04:32 (twenty years ago)

"gay"!

― cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 4 September 2004 04:43 (twenty years ago)

he was talking about Harry Partch and the Nihilist Spasm Band(!!), but most of the things he says he likes in the upthread quotes are boring and gay.

― AaronHz (AaronHz), Saturday, 4 September 2004 05:00 (twenty years ago)

wtf is so great about being "weird" anyway!?

Nelly Furtado raps too. Is Nellie McKay anything like her? Nelly furtado was being pitched as weird too, and I liked her remix with Missy. Nelly the rapper is less weird now, or trying to be (he was rocking a straight black ensamble no bandaid in the last XXL) and I guess cam'ron is weird for wearing pink (MC Eiht calls him out for it on the new album... yawn) but Nelly's first album was sorta weird, and now he has a video with girls dressed like 1920s girls dressed like "indians" -- is that weird?

If 50 cent is better than buck 65 then is he -$1.15 better? If he's 115 better then is that still 196 less good than 311? I dial 311 on my cell phone and it connects me to customer service automatically! It doesn't get better than that.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 4 September 2004 06:46 (twenty years ago)

I like it when jess rushes in to defend an attack on ilm.

This thread should be called shook ones ptIII.

― oops (Oops), Saturday, 4 September 2004 07:04 (twenty years ago)

yeah yeah yeah

― Daniel DiMAGGIO (Daniel DiMAGGIO), Saturday, 4 September 2004 12:29 (twenty years ago)

i don't know about "weird," but nellie furtado definitely has more teena marie in her than nellie mckay does.

― chuck, Saturday, 4 September 2004 12:33 (twenty years ago)

remember when she was all like nelly nelly nelly yo, on your radio, and then missy was like "holla!"? that was great.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 4 September 2004 14:16 (twenty years ago)

What if Nellie McKay didn't wanna hang out with Nelly and Nelly F.? What if she'd rather hang out with I. MacKaye? Or Danny Kaye even? Wtf, Fugazi & Walter Mitty, plus uber-precocious sweetheart. Nyargh.

― Huck, Saturday, 4 September 2004 15:26 (twenty years ago)

K's choice!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 4 September 2004 15:31 (twenty years ago)

About that whole 'Nellie leaves in mistakes' thing -- that just screams "I really LOVE how Billy Joel left in that mistake on "You're Only Human," that was so spontaneous!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 September 2004 15:32 (twenty years ago)

Haha

― djdee2005, Saturday, 4 September 2004 15:33 (twenty years ago)

wtf is so great about being "weird" anyway!?

after your "$1.65" post I'm not sure anymore. Weirdo.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:06 (twenty years ago)

i don't know about "weird," but nellie furtado definitely has more teena marie in her than nellie mckay does.

OTM.

(Also: wtf ever happened to Teena Marie, anyway?)

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:10 (twenty years ago)

1+6+5=12
1+2=3
3 is not divisible by five.

i guess he's alright after all.

165/5 = 53. dunno what that means?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:11 (twenty years ago)

Also: wtf ever happened to Teena Marie, anyway?

Didn't Chuck say she had a new album last year?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:14 (twenty years ago)

she just did a huge tour with rick jame right before he passed, i wanted to go but it sold out in atlanta in like six hours. her new album did reasonably well from what i can tell.

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:15 (twenty years ago)

http://freespace.virgin.net/ecliptica.ww/book/weisshau.jpg

― MATH BLASTER MYSTERY! (ex machina), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:16 (twenty years ago)

The new Teena Marie album debuted in the top 10!

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

Does Cash Money + Stairway To Hell mean it was rap-metal?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:21 (twenty years ago)

i'm pretty sure the new one didn't have any metal and my understanding is it wasn't very partyharty either (she's still looking good going by the cover).

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:26 (twenty years ago)

How did get so high on the charts? I thought Cash Money was past its prime, and I sure as fuck was under the impression Teena was.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:29 (twenty years ago)

was it the Musicology audience?

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:29 (twenty years ago)

i'm guessing it got so high on the charts cuz it got a good deal of prerelease publicity and she's always had a pretty sizeable fanbase?

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, same reason Luther went number one last year.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:33 (twenty years ago)

luther beating radiohead and metallica for number one last year was best 'keep hope alive' moment of this decade easy

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago)

yeah but wasn't Luther in the hospital when the album came out? Plus J Records can get hella shady with sales figures. I didn't realize the Teena Marie album got much publicity.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

in atlanta it (and especially the show) were a HUGE DEAL

― cinniblount (James Blount), Saturday, 4 September 2004 16:38 (twenty years ago)

three weeks pass...

So i talked to Buck about this today and he says he's sorry and that he was drunk, though i imagine he was kidding about the drunk part.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 28 September 2004 02:25 (twenty years ago)

Further to that, from the letters section of the latest Exclaim (with the Junior Boys on the cover):

"Hello, this is Buck 65 writing in a pre-emptive attempt to address the little controversy brewing over my recent Kerrang! interview. In the interview I said that hip-hop people are ignorant, have no appreciation for other genres of music and that I'd be surprised if anyone could show me an example of a rapper that could read music. I'm apologising for all that. I lost my cool on tape, which is never good. The journalist was provoking me, calling me a sell-out and a whore. I was trying to make a point by playing devil's advocate, but I went way overboard. No hint of irony or role-playing or intelligence came across in the story. Now I just look like an idiot. I don't think being able to read music is a concern. Most of my favourite music was made by non-educated musicians. I still have heavy criticisms of most hip-hop, but I really didn't make them well on this particular day.

Posted by Buck 65"

― Eoin Quigley (Eoin), Saturday, 2 October 2004 19:24 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

what a douche

― gershy, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:11 (eighteen years ago)

this thread may be the last time I heard anything about Buck 65.

― da croupier, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:34 (eighteen years ago)

awwwww, illusions shattered pt. 5,000,000

; ;
^

― wanko ergo sum, Saturday, 7 July 2007 17:41 (eighteen years ago)

three months pass...

does he still hate hip-hop? Or has he taken a few political science courses? or has he read Howard Zinn?

― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 03:06 (seventeen years ago)

He's had his passion for hip-hop reawakened by Kanye West, like so many broadsheet music critics.

― Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 08:22 (seventeen years ago)

A sensible rapper for once.....

― Geir Hongro, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 08:27 (seventeen years ago)

i think the word you're looking for is "white".

― jed_, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:49 (seventeen years ago)

two weeks pass...

confounding sentence in vv review:

Nova Scotian fringe rapper Richard Terfry's version of old-school harks back to 1957, before rock 'n' roll itself, but he's never sounded more hip-hop in his life.

before rock'n'roll? itself? 1957?

― tipsy mothra, Friday, 9 November 2007 05:42 (seventeen years ago)

takes a long time for things to get to the maritimes?

― hstencil, Friday, 9 November 2007 05:54 (seventeen years ago)

First half of the new album is fatastic.

― Whiney G. Weingarten, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:19 (seventeen years ago)

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

the more ive educated myself about hip-hop, the more i hate buck 65

― and what, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:38 (seventeen years ago)

ppl are allowed to hate hip-hop.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:54 (seventeen years ago)

or say they do. or not be sure.

― Dr Morbius, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:55 (seventeen years ago)

this album blows

― Curt1s Stephens, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:56 (seventeen years ago)

self-hating rapper

― Jordan, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:59 (seventeen years ago)

I'd guess that at least a few big hip-hop producers know how to read music, if not rappers as well.

― Hurting 2, Friday, 9 November 2007 18:09 (seventeen years ago)

herbhop. worst song titles. not lyrical.

― Humphry, Friday, 9 November 2007 19:52 (seventeen years ago)

he dont even get 2 hot tracks just mundane post blink pop punk

― Humphry, Saturday, 10 November 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

bullshit

― Humphry, Saturday, 10 November 2007 09:57 (seventeen years ago)

Completely ignorant. How many pop musicians read music? I know they don't all do it.

I'm a musician and I read it but I don't hold those who don't in contempt.

Besides, hip hop rules.

― Bo Jackson Overdrive, Monday, 12 November 2007 17:13 (seventeen years ago)

one year passes...

Explain why you – a rapper –hate hip hop?

― buzza, Monday, 5 January 2009 06:32 (sixteen years ago)

five months pass...

This fifteen track record is a highly unconventional take on the world of hip hop, even for a guy like Buck 65, who is at the forefront of the experimental rap frontier. The most stand out element of the album is its highly ambient, composer-esqe electronic nature, which is a signature of G.F.T.’s work; constantly shifting intensity, tempo, and mood.

The most impressive aspect of this record is Buck 65’s ability to deliverer lyrics that flow effortlessly with the unconventional beats. And beyond that, Buck 65 has taken his stylistic approach to rap and kicked it up to a new level, delivering thought provoking introspective spoken word- like lyrics worthy of Def Jam acclaim.

In order to be fully appreciated, More Heart Than Brains needs to be listened to multiple times. Due to the highly unorthodox sound it presents, it might fool unfamiliar listeners into thinking it’s simply a dark and depressed record. However, once the newness has been absorbed, the tone and feeling of the album drastically brighten as new aspects are revealed.

http://www.urb.com/features/1486/INTERVIEWBuck65onBikeForThree.php

― velko, Monday, 29 June 2009 19:37 (sixteen years ago)

Hahahahahaha. "the forefront of the experimental rap frontier."

― maciej recognizing trill, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:44 (sixteen years ago)

thought provoking introspective spoken word- like lyrics

― velko, Monday, 29 June 2009 20:58 (sixteen years ago)

some very ambiguous hyphenation going on there

― thomp, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:22 (sixteen years ago)

like apparently there are words in his lyrics

alternatively, he delivers thought-provoking introspective spoken-word, as lyrics worthy of Def Jam acclaim also do

― thomp, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:23 (sixteen years ago)

google translated from german, surely

― ❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Monday, 29 June 2009 21:27 (sixteen years ago)

Buck 65 delivers thoughts that provoke in you, the listener, introspective spoken words, which are like lyrics that Def Jam would acclaim. Those introspective spoken words will be, "Why am I listening to Buck 65?"

I have broken the code.

― dad a, Monday, 29 June 2009 21:38 (sixteen years ago)

I remember when Talkin Honky Blues came out and it got a lot of broadsheet kisses and I bought it thinking it sounded pretty cool and it wasn't. I expected some sort of dustbowl Timbaland-futurism-as-Mad-Max-dystopia but instead you just get this dry, grooveless shallow record with lame "left of centre" lyrics. It just sounded like, yeah, hiphop for people who don't like hip hop. That's not entirely true, there was one that was okay in a rubbish asher roth omg i'm totally white lyrics way. I'd be pretty surprised if his lyrics were really thought-provoking now.

― ❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉Plaxico❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉❉ (I know, right?), Monday, 29 June 2009 21:53 (sixteen years ago)

one year passes...

Just heard a song by this guy on YouTube, and it's probably in the bottom 5% of the absolute worst shit I've ever heard. Excruciatingly awful, how-the-fuck-did-this-guy-get-a-record-contract bad. Why does anyone like this guy? And what the fuck is with his comments at the top of this page?

― Lazarus Niles-Burnham (res), Wednesday, 22 December 2010 04:07 (fourteen years ago)

This sort of thing is pointless, but I love making lists… So, what the heck, here’s my list of my favorite albums of 2010:

1. Karen Elson – The Ghost Who Walks
2. Sage Francis – Li(f)e
3. Sleigh Bells – Treats
4. Neil Young – Le Noise
5. Joanna Newsom – Have One On Me
6. Charlotte Gainsbourg – IRM
7. Broken Social Scene – Forgiveness Rock Record
8. Sufjan Stevens – The Age Of Adz
9. Jack Rose – Luck In the Valley
10. Cut Chemist – Sound Of The Police

Honorable mentions to Glasser, Scout Niblett, Shad, Frazey Ford, Warpaint, Land Of Talk, Curtis Plum and Sharon Jones.

It should also be noted that the records I listened to most in the last year were all old records. The record I listened to most in 2010, once again, was probably Pink Flag by Wire, followed closely by Yo! Bumrush The Show by Public Enemy.

That’s all for now.

Buck

― buzza, Wednesday, 22 December 2010 04:27 (fourteen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.