the libertines' pete doherty covers blu cantrell's breathe (mp3 link)

not to be rude, but are you out of your mind? the original is tuneful, melodic, and joyous. the cover is pd mewling off-key over barebones guitar. are you joking?

as for me joking or not, i think you have to be joking when you say the original by blu and sean freakin paul "is tuneful, melodic, and joyous." joyous?! where is the tune and melody? i can at least make one out in this acoustic barebones version.

i don't think our argument about pd vs bc/sp is going to go anywhere productive.

lauren is so right!!

no, kiss does not count. we might as well go even further if THAT counts and say the stones doing irma thomas' time is on my side counts in that case.

the opposite to this ridiculous automated PC outrage on rockers doing hip hop or R&B songs is like idiots who think joss stone did fell in love with a girl better than the white stripes, when all she did was a wimpy vaguely funky neo soul retread of it.

i know prince has been doing i like the way you move, im hoping hes only been doing the sung parts in the chorus. he should really be doing hey ya though!

Tom Jones doing Kiss doesn't count as Tom Jones is considerably more kitch than Prince.

All these pale in comparison to the horror that is Jamie Cullum's Frontin'.

Yes, but the difference is that the Stones loved R&B and their sound grew out of it. There was nothing remotely 'here's a crazy novelty cover departure' about it.

I quite like that Joss Stone cover!

i never got the 'here's a crazy novelty cover departure' feel from time is on my side,

Well no - that was my point. Who would?

as long time R&B and soul listener, i find myself frustrated that only indie bands are (allegedly) trying to show that theres some semblance of a song underneath. what i wouldnt give to hear more instruments in R&B, or better songwriting.

covers by rock bands are often poor, especially if they are of non-rock records, whether that be pop, r&b, hiphop, soundtracks, jazz, or anything else where the production is important or prominent, or where instrumentation is unusual, because it removes the earths things, makes them become apparent through a more standard instrumentation.

ie, when covering a song, many say, the song should be strong enough to support different takes on it. i am less sure of this, for me, the sound, atmosphere and instrumentation are equally, if not more, important than the song itself.

that is why i am as unable to conceive of good rock covers of ennio morricone as i am of the beach boys as i am of dillinja as i am of beenie man, especially if it is to replay the song in a guitar-drums-bass format. the magic is more than just the song on paper.

this, also, partially explains why i don't like covers, in general. if a very good song is going to be covered, then that is a very high standard to equal. if the song is not very good in the first place, then the grim spectre of humour and "having a laugh" raises its head. i dont need to have a laugh, i have no sense of humour, only one of magic

i'm trying to think of a rock band that made a song better in covering it...

i like dangelo, even though he makes only one record per half-decade. i dont consider this stuff bland and boring (although a lot of neo soul has become like that in the last few years), thats usually what most mainstream critics say.

most R&B singers are shit though, like usher, or have no sense of phrasing, or do that hip hop singing shit where the concept of melody is made redundant. beyonce has a great voice, but shes guilty of this too. but i dont know if usher sould be considered much of a soul singer. he has a weedy voice.

I love this.

Has anyone heard the Lispector cover of Total Eclipse Of The Heart? Tangents were raving about it a while ago -it is wild and lost and private and staggering.

(I dunno if L are 'rock' tho)

bullshit. the original is a monster. the cover is terrible. but if it makes you feel better to think that everyone who disagrees with you is a frothing automaton bent on enforcing musical correctness, then go right ahead.

Thing is, this Blu Cantrell song is good, and if Pete Doherty took a little more time with it, I bet it would sound alright. Well maybe not.

speaking of froth, may i wipe your mouth?

the original is a shit monster.

There's some Blu Cantrell song I DON'T LIKE AT ALL but it's not this one, and her voice sounds good enough that I would enjoy it otherwise.

http://www.kitchenemporium.com/info/16froth_maker.html

http://prodtn.cafepress.com/8/12385318_F_tn.jpg

http://www.bartleby.com/62/19/B0211900.html

Does that David Acid question show up every day?

BLU CANTRELL feat SEAN PAUL – “Breathe”

They may well never have met, let alone shared studio air but Blu and Sean have still crossed the line separating ‘featuring’ from ‘duet’. The two-hander has Blu saying she’ll go and Sean telling her no, and plays exquisitely to both their strengths. Cantrell does the mink-lunged hyperventiliating R&B siren thing, working up to a pitch of desperation/determination over the hijacked Dr.Dre rhythm (nice to have it back, by the way). She’s had enough, she needs some space, please let her breathe – so far so ballad but it’s Sean Paul who makes the track by deflating Blu completely. Yeah whatever, give it a rest lady – he’s coming from the callous side of laid-back but as the most charismatic man in current pop it’s him I’m rooting for. Or maybe I’m just a heel.

when breathe came out, i had heard sean on about 34893 songs at the same time, so i definitely wasnt rooting for him.

"Breathe" is probably better than whatever track the original Dre rhythm was stolen from, which I own but cannot remember.

the thousands of dollars i've spent over the years collecting soul records notwithstanding, of course.

ive spent thousands on rock records too, but i still consider myself more of a soul/R&B/hip hop fan at heart. i'd imagine its more or less the opposite for most ILMers. its not like the number of posts on soul or R&B are competing with those on indie or rock is it?

I have only ever heard the Libertines once, as far as I am aware and I thought they were pretty dull and recycled, but maybe you're right and I secretly loved it.

which david acid question do you refer to R.I.M.A?

i shall put the charles aznavour track online somewhere, later tonite, and then i shall email robin, so that he can download it.

i have never heard this band, do people think i would like them. i have many records by many artists, but it is late, i don't think i will list them today

you accused people of not being "soul/r&b" fans. i said that i collect soul records. how did i generalise or twist around what you said?

you can call it all R&B if you want, if that just means anything sung by mainly black people over the years, but if you think theres no difference between an artist like frank mccomb and what craig david do, then hey, each to their own. i dont know why this is so hard to stomach, if you read any 'black music' mag in either the states or UK, its the norm.

i'm sure i was being overly sensitive, but i assumed the fact that you said "soul/r&b" then turned around and said "aha! but the two aren't at all alike!" was some sort of trap.

"I hate threads getting bad-tempered on ILM, but when people try to pull the "I'm a real fan of x genre and I assume that those I disagree with can't be" card it really puts my back up."

im not saying i know it all, or anything like that, but i think maney people, esp. those crazy about music as i assume most on this site are, often have more passion for one particular music above all others. or maybe its just me.

and what if i do know more about the music we're discussing (or attempting to discuss at least - everyone just seems to be exploding in fits of rage instead), so what? im sure theres plenty of people that know more about other genres or styles more than me.

im not saying my opinion is definitive, im just saying what i thought about the blu song and that i think its shit. whats the big deal? cant believe a bit of criticism of blu cantrell is getting people in such a tizz. who knew she had such militant fans?

The original is lovely though.

It kind of reminds me of Otis & Carla Thomas, thematically.

(tons of xposts)

as far as the its boy against girl duetting, thats been done to death too. the ja rule and ashanti songs, the janet and busta songs, etc etc. maybe i just listen to too much of this stuff!

maybe so, but he completely nails it. whatever the motivation may have been, the vocals work so well together that intention becomes completely irrelevent.

this would be single of the week if it wasn't for lumidee. i really love this song, i've been singing it all summer. i heard somewhere that blu sings a snaky melody, which i totally agree with. and sean paul's "stop actin crazy" bits are joyful and very fun to sing along with. i like how they grind in the video and look up at the sky. blu's lyrics are vague and sad, like she's skirting around how bad she feels about the bad, crazy boy she's hooked up with.

- spizzazzz

i like sean pauls own songs though.

also:

theres a male rapper (in this case a dancehall DJ) brought in to give it some flavour of the month currency. at that time sean paul was everywhere on everyone songs, so he was stuck on the blu song cos he was popular, not for the good of the track.

why does intent matter to you?

xpost who CARES where they got it from, it's still an unusual sample! I mean, sheesh, if two songs having the same backing track bothers you, how do you deal with Dancehall?

- spizzazzz

The Shite Stripes' "Fell In Love With A Boy" = annoying racket, just like their other "songs"

Dick, I REALLY resent being called an idiot just because i prefer one to the other.

"but the dynamics between Busta and Janet or Ja Rule and Ashanti are light years away from the one between Blu and Sean Paul (light years away from each other, too.) Busta and Ja are way too gruff to play it like Sean, and Janet and Ashanti way too girly to play it like Blu, for one, and there isn't such a sense of there being a "straight man" in their acts. I don't think boy against girl duetting can be "done to death" - it's a deathless approach, because it'll always be relevant."

i can deal with male artist. vs female duets, i love them, im just tired of rapper vs. singer ones. and busta was very toned down when he did his janet and erykah badu duets so that doesnt wash here. ja started singing in his duets and wasnt exactly rapping hardcore in his duets either so thats kind of a moot point. i really dont think sean was playing a straight man, as such, because blu wasnt exactly pulling the punchlines out. i really dont know what dynamics youre talking about either really, listen to the duets between busta and badu - that really has chemistry and a dynamic.

"xpost who CARES where they got it from, it's still an unusual sample! I mean, sheesh, if two songs having the same backing track bothers you, how do you deal with Dancehall?'

whats good for the goose...... dancehall has its own laws and rules which are what its musical culture is made from. R&B has, or had, its own too. id rather they dont all turn into each other.

dancehall has its own laws and rules which are what its musical culture is made from. R&B has, or had, its own too. id rather they dont all turn into each other.

You're fighting a losing battle there, though.

A lot of this discussion is interesting to me because, on the duet tip, it covers a slew of songs I mostly don't know, from a time when I was so heartily sick of The Cult of the Now that I wanted everything and anything remotely musical, popular or not, to go up in flames or something close to it. I'm actually looking forward to hearing some of these suckers at my own pace and in a different context.

the sight of people in the throes of blu cantrell appreciation (and a totally average song at that, i can think of a million other examples that do what people say this song does and ones that do it better) is doing my head in! from this thread alone, im not convinced of ILM's taste in R&B but no more blu love please! (unless its for her brief centrefold career)

blu
charles
dre
pete

i read mainstream media reviews of soul or r&b all the time from people who are obviously mainly rock and pop fans, but feel they have just as much knowledge/passion/interest in soul and R&B artists as specialists in the field so end up writing lazy or ignorant comments. (granted, sometimes it can foster interesting outside perspectives).