Say Something Nice or Interesting about: Smash Mouth (or possibly Sugar Ray)

Sugar Ray made a lyrical allusion to Killing Joke's "Sanity" in "Fly" (by their own admission, I didn't pick that out on my own). And "When it's Over" is a perfectly acceptable pop song. Moreover, Mark McGrath is a serious music dork (ever seen him clean up on "Rock'n'Roll Jeopardy" on Vh1?), so respect is due.

Smashmouth are the OC XTC

This is woefully incorrect.

"Walking On the Sun", see also "All-Star"
"Fly"

Bad:

That blasted "Do It Again" remake
Singles that tried to recreate the groove and success of "Fly", with the possible exception of "Every Morning"

My blood is BOILING!!!!!!

I think the "Walking ON the Sun" keyb life was from Perez Prado, actually (not fucking Barry Andrews, who plays with more stealth and skill than those slackjaws in Smashmouth could ever fuckng muster).

Sugar Ray: second the McGrath music dork comment. Like Sugar Ray or not, after seeing some r&r celebs left clueless on R&R Jeopardy, it was a pleasure seeing McGrath come across as an obvious music fan.

wanna back that shit up, dude? Have you heard a Smashmouth album? What is SO innovative, imaginative and original about XTC and what so NOT about Smashmouth? Use nouns please.

XTC were a frenetic Beefheart influenced pop-punk band who were quite original in many ways, then became Beach Boys/Beatles/psych influenced orchestral AOR pop. Also, Andy's and Colin's vocal timbre couldn't be further from Smashmouth singer guy's (Steve Harwell?).

Smashmouth are a decent 90s pop rock band with awful singles, the best of which ("Walking on the sun") rips off that one Perry & Kingsley song that begins one of their greatest hits collections.

XTC = Smashmouth or Sugar Ray just doesn't compute at all, Anthony. And I say this without actively hating either band.

Hell, XTC have far more in common with Sublime than the above.

hey! you can do it!
hey! or they can do it to you!
hey! you can do it!
hey! or you can do it
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
everybody get the club

In a game where you ride on a motorcycle and beat fellow cyclists with implements like cattle prods, lead pipes, and, of course, THE CLUB.

Yes, I have Fush You, Mang. Largely yawny Cali rock with makes the Surf Punks first record sound like No New York.

XTC, by contrast, took the adrenaline and aggression of Brit Punk and Ska and fused it into an entirely original hiccupy style that many have attempted to replicate (from Oingo Boingo through Skeleton Key), but have never matched. They also bothered to write amazing songs in the process.

(x-post)

Mark McGrath made clear on some I Love The Whatever show that he can drop all the original Pretenders' names at the drop of a hat.

(x-post) yeah cause smashmouth didn't mix rock and ska in their sound, uh uh no way. also how could they sound like another band? they weren't original or authentic!

oh yeah, that was Smashmouth i was talkin about

that doesn't quite capture how he responded. he responded by having a 5-minute-long meltdown/tirade, all caught on camera, that suggests he's a lot less secure with himself than the average pop star. the heckler won that encounter easily.

Anthony's wrong, though; Third Eye Blind is the band that sounds like XTC.

I just did. (have both on my iPod). shrug?

Play "This Is Pop." Play "Till The Morning Comes." Play "Life Begins At The Hop." Tell me what's so goddamn different. And don't throw irrelevant terms like "orginality" in there. I'm talking about what you hear.

You're original claim: Smashmouth are the OC XTC.

Tell me how relevant "OC" is as an adjective, and I'll gladly claim "originality" is irrelevant in this discussion.

That said, it's a bit disingenuous to compare two bands just because certain songs from the newer band are familiar to a small fraction of the older band's oevre. Many many Lenny Kravitz songs sound like the Beatles, but with modern production and all that hoo-ha. Does that make Lenny Kravitz the "NYC Beatles"?

Also, XTC has had several more albums and several more phases than Smashmouth have had albums, period. This is not discounting Smashmouth by any means. I just think the comparison point is just really odd. Again, I think there was more similarity between Sublime and XTC circa English Settlement than any of the above, and that's saying something.

It's perfectly OK to say that Smashmouth has a lot of songs that ape XTC, but when you claim that "Smashmouth are the OC XTC", that's a re far more bold statement, and you'd better know damn well enough about both bands if you're going to validly support that claim.

How is my alleigance to Killing Joke any different from your constatn, foundation-free defense of Limp Bizkit, Good Charlotte and Warrant. If I'm a cartoon character, you're no different.

I know lots about XTC, Oah Sea. I've owned and heard plenty of albums throughout their career. There's reason I quickly amended my statement to reaffirm I'm discussing the early period of XTC (which, if I included English Settlement, would take up HALF of their Fossil Fuel comp), but the later years of XTC aren't very OC, so I'm tempted to say that part of Smashmouth being the OC XTC is that they turned into movie plug-in Burger King endorsers rather than boring reclusive puds (though Wasp Star was refreshing).

Qualify that. I'm only vitriolic at the claim that they are in some way equivalent to XTC. Smashmouth are otherwise fine little insects, but nothing more.

While I'd argue I've laid down plenty of foundation in the threads where these artists were discussed, if you read my post I was saying I found it odd you would use the same unwarranted techniques that are used upon you.

You're being presumptious, as always. You have no idea how/why I appreciate the bands I like. But speak ill of them or make ludicrous claims about them and you're likely to get me firing back.

That's a very strange distinction to draw.

That I'd be curious to hear.

Smashmouth's lyrical oeuvre does NOT stand up to XTC by a fuckin' country mile.

Smashmouth's bass player couldn't keep up with Colin Moulding's bass playing if his very life depended on it.

Smashmouth are all tiki drinks with paper umbrellas and hawaiian shirts and Vans. Nothing more.

And YES, I'm referring to the first few albums, Anthony, not Skylarking or even Black Sea. I take it you mean White Music through Drums & Wires.

x-post

Andy Partidge == Robert Smith without the weepy gothishness
Smash Mouth Guy == Frank Black with a tan and a tequila

(I tried to build some kind of comparison between Smash Mouth Guy and Andrew Elridge, but I fear that if I had succeeded in crafting a comparison that worked, the entire universe would collapse in on itself and we'd all be killed.)

and i have no doubt that smashmouth would've loved to have written any of 100 or so xtc songs.

this is the one point I'd seriously debate (I'll concede that XTC were perhaps flashier musicians, but it's a compliment to XTC that I'd never think to laud them for Rush-like qualities) and I brought up the vocal difference before anyone else.

I think Andy Partridge would look at the lyrical puns and subject shifts within tracks like "All Star" and "Walking On The Sun" and be very impressed. The second verse of "All Star" is a hysterical example of intentional self-contradiction:

It's a cool place, and they say it gets colder
You're bundled up now, wait till you get older
But the media men beg to differ
Judging by the hole in the satellite picture
The ice we skate is gettin pretty thin
The water's gettin warm so you might as well swim
My world's on fire, how about yours?
Cuz that's the way i like it and i never get bored

A lot of Smashmouth's tracks are cynical in the same manner as XTC, ESPECIALLY "Walking On The Sun," which I consider their most XTC like track. I doubt any of you have actually paid attention to the lyrics of a Smashmouth song, so I don't know why you're claiming to know if they have any value.

Dominique, there's LOTS of secret intelligence bubbling forth underneath Smashmouth's Shrek-sellage. The lyrics of "Walking On The Sun" (which I didn't even notice back when the video was all over) are railings demanding responsibility and a lack of political apathy. Andy P would SO approve.

Style does not always equate with technical chops. Being a great musician, I think, doesn't necessarily mean you are the most technically versed player.

XTC totally WANTED to be popular. Partridge admits to being pissed and jealous when Moulding's songs started being hit singles with Drums And Wires. When they saw the work was too hard they went headlong into cult world.

Smashmouth were also witty little hoppy cynics, they just wanted to get PAID more than they wanted to be respectable. Again, OC.

plus similar organ sound

Have you ever actually listened to Go 2 by XTC?

What fucking planet do you live on?

Greg Camp is way more influenced by the Costello/Partridge school of songwriting than the ? one (both took ?'s sonic elements though)

Mentioning Costello made me realize that A)stuff like "Radio Radio" is another obv. Smashmouth touchstone B)the Attractions were also way more flashy, stylish musicians than Smashmouth C)like XTC Costello traded in that flash for over-dub hysteria as soon as possible

so what I'm wondering is do people think Costello and Partridge would have bothered with having great bands if they started today or would they go right into the Abba-Sgt. Peppers shit (Costello hangs with Q-Tip, so he may have done similar-to-Smashmouth hip-hop flavorage)?

-- manthony m1cc1o (anthonyisrigh...), September 14th, 2004.

which describes Limp Wrist and the Dance Disaster Movement perfectly.

smashmouth i can take or leave.

though since this is the Say Something Nice thread I'll note that while they sound nothing like XTC I'll take Sugar Ray's self-titled album over any of XTC's. Best pop-rock album of the millenium so far.

(x-post)

haha and i thought you were gonna get defensive abt my "hyperbolic" comment !!

haha - "too"

You would.

They're on this disc I burned that had that Roll Deep Crew album which I also snagged from you (which is v. v. good). Late seventies punk or pop or something.

really? i think of gwen as a dumpee at heart.

do you mind if i imagine you saying this in ghostface voice?

"Waiter, as lovely as your Filet Mignon special tonight sounds, could I just please have an order of year-old, room-temperature Spam? And can I have it in a dog dish please?"

though there's are plenty of human beings who are Mark-like sadsacks (if Mark didn't look like Mark or make money like Mark he would be on ILX).

i can't say i've ever really liked a song by either.

An appropriate fate for both bands.

Cocks are the human reproductive organ XTC.

wow, just read most of this thread - gotta be one of the funniest instances of an ILM thread being derailed, with the whole Smash Mouth = XTC argument going back and forth btw. Anthony and Alex for-fucking-ever. high point was the above comment, which had me actual LOLing for about 5 minutes. hilarious!

I love this thread so much.

Best pop-rock album of the millenium so far.

A+ trolling

The aforementioned Perrey & Kingsley song, by the way, is "Swan's Splashdown." Good taste by Smashmouth.

That was not trolling. It was wrong but it was his honest opinion. Is Anthony gone now?

oh, i was just joking.
he posts under the name da croupier (check the recent sasha frere jones thread for classic anthony)

idunnowhattotype (1 day ago) +2
if you don't like Sugar Ray,
then quite virtually you don't deserve to exist.

i like "walking on the sun"

i can't say i've ever really liked a song by either.

-- latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, September 15, 2004 7:58 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

LIAR

this thread is near IT WAS A PRED SHIP-quality fun

Smash Mouth- shrewdest rock band ever. Right from the start, they announced they were only interested in making some money, didn't care about looking cool. At the height of Napster, they realized it wasn't about record sales, but song licensing. For a few years, it seemed like that "Hey now, you're a rockstar!" song was in every movie soundtrack. When it came on over the credits of Cold Mountian, I was like "Woah!"

Lyrical references
-The line "with her finger and her thumb in the shape of an 'L' on her forehead" refers to the popular mocking hand gesture "Loser".

-The line "all that glitters is gold" is probably a parody of the proverb, "All that glitters is not gold." It may also be a parody of the well-known line from the Led Zeppelin song Stairway to Heaven.

-Given that it accompanies other metaphorical references to weather, and is followed by a line referring to a "hole in the satellite picture" (probably a reference to the hole in the ozone layer), the term "meteor man" in the line "but the meteor men beg to differ" most likely refers to television meteorologists. It may or may not also be a pun referring back to the line "only shooting stars break the mold", since a meteor is also referred to as a "shooting star".

-The second verse is as follows:
"It's a cool place, and they say it gets colder. You're bundled up now, wait til' you get older. But the meteor men beg to differ judging by the hole in the satellite picture.

The ice we skate is getting pretty thin. The water's getting warm, so you might as well swim. My world's on fire, how bout yours? That's the way I like it and I never get bored"

When viewed from a scientific perspective, this aspect of the song seems to be indirectly referring to global warming.

Together forever.

"cuddly people"?

the asshole who snags the hotchick you've been eyeing but who thinks of you as 'just a friend' and then eight hours later she calls you in the middle in the night in tears crying about how 'he stuck a table leg in my vagina'? - that's sugar ray

This should be a pull quote on the back cover of a Sugar Ray bio.

You have fuckin' NO EARTHLY IDEA of what you're talking about, and your festering pie-hole should be duct-taped forver shut.

Wow. I was mad.

no, you were Alex in NYC

Right from the start, they announced they were only interested in making some money

Hardly original.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c267/petalbombc5/gene_simmons.jpg

sugar ray made some great summer time pop singles. and they were not bad live (had free tix for some concert that they performed at) either! plus they had supercat on a track.

Um...yes.

http://bloggingonthesun.blogspot.com/

huh

http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/article/Smash-Mouth-and-the-Oakland-A-s-get-into-a-10422248.php

One of the biggest zingers of the exchange came from the A’s after Smash Mouth said the Bay Area team shouldn’t expect a World Series and that they were being cheap.

“@smashmouth @whatwouldDOOdo Guess you've got it all figured out. Except how to make a hit since 1999,” the A’s wrote.

lol

I love how Sean Doolittle "zinged" them by using their song titles in a sentence but it was all cover songs which made the zing really lamesauce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQzMB8x59jo

the only youtube channel I ever subscribed to.

^^ Somehow makes both songs tolerable!

https://twitter.com/cool_as_heck/status/804796246909030400

"All Star by Smashmouth but the words are ordered from lowest to highest score in scrabble"

http://nymag.com/selectall/2017/01/all-star-by-smash-mouth-except-every-note-is-c.html

Something nice about Sugar Ray: "Danzig Needs a Hug" was an excellent song title!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lj7tXDVbk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v64JDC4413s

The sound of a new millenium

i thought this revive was about sugar ray's cover of "spinning away" being linked on the eno thread. somebody should definitely poll the beach ost - it's better than it has any right to be.

kinda amazing how the drum loop sounds equally shitty on both the Eno/Cale and Sugar Ray version

looking at the related videos there, we must be at peak ironic Smash Mouth. you could host a film night of just "All Star Variations"

Smash Mouth - All Star but everything's out of sync
PancadaPls
44,554 views

Closer by the Chainsmokers but every lyric is replaced by All Star by Smash Mouth
SpicyProductions
15,547 views

Allstar but every word is in alphabetical order
Dpaje
496,798 views

nearly half a million views! that must be the one that was on the AV Club

don't wanna give undue credit but did any of this stuff exist before Neil Cicierega's Mouth Sounds?

the only youtube channel I ever subscribed to.

― Van Horn Street, Monday, October 31, 2016 6:29 PM (three months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

very talented

nearly half a million views! that must be the one that was on the AV Club

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau)

they've _all_ been on the av club. last week it was "smooth" by santana featuring rob thomas repitched to twelve-tone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV5umyUTEYI

Bummed we can't search 77 threads tbh

https://soundcloud.com/vagidictoris/all-star-by-smash-mouth-but-all-notes-are-in-c

someone tell me what post-punk band this sounds like

In June 2011, a writer at Something Awful offered $20 if the band's lead singer, Steve Harwell, would eat 24 eggs. Others on the site and on Twitter began offering additional sums, eventually targeted to various charities. In July 2011, Harwell accepted the challenge if fans could gather pledges of $10,000 for St. Jude's Children's Hospital. The fundraising goal was reached in less than a week's time. A self-styled "reality TV fan," Harwell requested that his friend celebrity chef Guy Fieri prepare the eggs. The event was held at Johnny Garlic's restaurant, in Dublin, California on October 11, 2011. With about 150 people attending, Harwell was able to finish the eggs with the help of audience members as well as the San Jose Sharks mascot, Sharkie. $15,000 was raised for charity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YJfXdSR85o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z48NmdWbquw

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1SKbEaUkAAHbsI.jpg:large

"Smash Mouth" would indeed be a perfect name for an STD

we need to have a poll soon: Which post-Nirvana radio rock band succeeded at the Self-Aware Retro Olympics?

you could have Smash Mouth, 311, Marcy Playground, Crazy Town, etc.

i do have to give Smash Mouth props for going with that 60s organ sound. they had a Vox Continental in their "Walking on the Sun" music video. that's pretty cool. and that was in the late 90s. this wasn't that long after Beck had a hit w the similarly 60s fetishizing organ riff for "Where It's At".

i always think of what Mark McGrath would do when I get in a pickle. and invariably the answer has something to do with human trafficking.

Sugar Ray sucks

Smash Mouth (album) Wikipedia article edited anonymously from US House of Representatives https://t.co/gF2C5eCTZZ

— congress-edits (@congressedits) October 19, 2017

your tax dollars at work folks

I always liked "Fly" tbqh

pure fun throwaway song with no pretensions of being anything, and a nice guitar lick

i do have to give Smash Mouth props for going with that 60s organ sound. they had a Vox Continental in their "Walking on the Sun" music video. that's pretty cool. and that was in the late 90s. this wasn't that long after Beck had a hit w the similarly 60s fetishizing organ riff for "Where It's At".

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau)

And before Smashmouth there was Edwyn Collins with “girl like you”.

I do love those 60’s organ riffs. Right now the only one I can think of is Shocking Blue’s Venus (which is a classic imho). Any other songs that you can think of?

96 Tears ftw

there's a little known band called Doors you might be interested in

I always liked "Fly" tbqh

"All around the world statues crumble for me" is a great line

hated Every Morning as a song but i did enjoy the second hand nostalgia gen x 70s roller disco vibes of that video

The sounds of the Vox Continental, Fender Rhodes and Wurlitzer have never really gone away.

sugar ray's big singles were all diminishing returns attempting to capture the magic of Fly

More like cashing in on the magic of Fly. I imagine the 14:59 album gave them some huge cash.

It was kind of funny how Sugar Ray got a pass from the nu metal crowd in my generation, every morning and someday are too cheesy even for a boy band.

"when it's over" stands on its own two legs as a summer jam imo

xp all three of those songs are great

they did a cover of "Spinning Away" by Eno & Cale for The Beach soundtrack. I was kind of floored hearing that during the movie. "huh, someone did a cover of 'Spinning Away'...", then later "Sugar Ray made this!??"

"All around the world statues crumble for me" is a great line

― brimstead, Thursday, October 19, 2017 12:11 PM (twenty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah, and the lyrics are full of wonderful non sequiturs

I wonder how many Public Image Ltd fans were hipped to them by Smashmouth?
https://i.imgur.com/5npRlHO.png

i get "falls apart" in my head every time i have a hangover, idk why except i tend to feel like i'm literally falling apart

My friend, who has been to hundreds of concerts before, still insists that a late 1990's Sugar Ray concert was the best concert he ever went to.

I kinda have a fondness for Mark McGrath, he's got this Nic Cage-like thing about him where he can't say no to anything and he does it all with the same coke-driven intensity. He did a Sharknado movie (as a main character, no less!), he joined a weird Christmas band, and now he's palling around with Mike Love for some reason. All this stuff is awful but still, good on him. There's a video of "The Beach Boys" playing "Do It Again" in front of the Capitol and at one point he puts his arm around Mike Love, points to him and says "THAT'S MIKE LOVE!!" (his mic isn't on but you can lip-read this easily). Where else you gonna get that sort of enthusiasm for something so mind-blowingly awful?

McGrath's 4 year stint as a host on Extra! is to date the best thing the show has ever done.

he was also on a massively amusing show called Killer Karaoke. brought in to replace Steve-O!!

do you like this song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c4madL-UA0

no, but have known people who probably do, they're alright, they have fun here and there

I will admit that I have somehow seen Smash Mouth live, two times (ask me anything), and they have at least two songs that are pretty good

also pretty cool to have a career resurgence because you were on the Shrek soundtrack and young people are weirdos

sugar ray is playing free in a park near me on 9/3. should i see them?

Harwell could be seen dropping his drinks, swaying back and forth onstage and flipping the bird while cursing multiple times.

“I’ll f—king kill your whole family, I swear to God,” he screamed to one fan in his audience.

Steve Harwell not doing too good...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/smash-mouth-steve-harwell-hospice_n_64f522b8e4b08f6e30e9813d

what a strange career this band has had, I believe the only original member now is the bass player

wanted to confirm that so I looked up the Wikipedia entry and clicked onto the former guitarist/songwriter to see what he's up to, and that is some kind of supergroup called The Defiant featuring the lead singer of Mighty Mighty Bosstones

so then I wondered what that sounded like and found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUbNkz9tIpU

oof

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewzs9gfpmu8

double oof

also the new smash mouth singer is no Steve Harwell, somehow

here's sugar ray kissing up to our trump-lite county executive, last night at the park.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nqDcvogg4I

to be fair he did put on a good series of free concerts this summer incl. judy torres, nice & smooth, southside johnny, boyz II men, lords of 52nd st (bliiy joel's 70s backing band), eli young band, tabou combo, france joli, sugar ray.

no way was there 120,000 people there.

RIP Steve Harwell
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/04/arts/music/steve-harwell-smash-mouth-all-star-dead.html

damn, RIP

It’s sad that he had a son who died at 6 months.

https://banhmiverlag.bandcamp.com/album/all-star-mixtape

xpost yeah I'd drink myself to death too if that happened to me

the prospect of losing my daughter terrifies me. I’d probably drink myself to death too. Wasn’t aware of any of this prior to his death and now I feel depressed about the whole situation.

RIP steve. he deserves better than that nytimes obit imo

Music wise “staring at the sun” one of my favorite songs to hear on the radio when I was like 12. Wish that one was more popular with the new generations.

“All star” one of the most fun songs adopted by meme culture, I still see it used and it’s still funny for me. I’m not sure if I’ll be able to listen to it without feeling a bit sad now.

RIP

I definitely dug Walking on the Sun at the time, i liked the retro vibe

RIP

I always thought 'Walking on the Sun' sounds like what the Animals would have sounded like in 1997. Always dug that tune.

yeah that feels kinda otm, i like that

I always assumed it was built around a Doors sample.

now that you mention it, it does sound a lot like "Soul Kitchen"

As mentioned upthread they used a Vox Continental for that 60’s organ sound.

it’s groovy, man

Always loved the way the chorus mimicked an infomercial

and yea "All Star" had some real legs, can't really think of another 90s tune that's been memed/mashed up so much. wonder how much Neil Cicierega had to do with that. still speaks to what a well-written hit that was, just full of memorable parts to the point where you could quote any of it and people would instantly know what you were talking about.

The NYT "harder-driving guitars" is not a description I would think of for "All Star." (Perhaps accurate but the guitar is the most forgettable part.)

Like every other millennial the chorus plays in my head when I read the name and I chalk the longevity up to being a perfect kind of kid's song. "And all that glitters is go-ooh-ld/only shooting stars break the mo-ooh-ld" is tailor-made for a group of 7-10 year olds to sing along to.

"Walkin On The Sun" reminds me of Fastball's "The Way" - more energetic but both doing a '70s lounge thing.

Astro Lounge actually quite a bit more entertaining than I expected it to be. "All Star" doesn't really fit at all on it