Taking Sides: Indigo Girls "Closer to Fine" vs Edie Brickells "What I Am"

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(Shit this might qualify as a "Defend the Indefensible" thread...)

Okay, they're both sweet, folky proto-indie songs with vague, portentious lyrics about the dangers of philosophy (...or something...)
They both are bus-stop-hum-worthy to some degree.
But what does the ILM hivemind think about these two semi-obscure tunes?
Or do you think they're both crap and prefer 10,000 Maniacs.

(This thread also serves as a Classic or Dud / Search and Destroy / Say Something Interesing / Why in the Name of All Thats Holy type scenario)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 02:56 (twenty-one years ago)

Or do you think they're both crap and prefer 10,000 Maniacs.

10,000 Maniacs were at least a step or two away from the hackey sack circle....and could write the odd, decent tune.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

"Closer To Fine" wins. No wah-wah solo.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

diesel dykes from georgia v. popeye.

edie wins.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:06 (twenty-one years ago)

No wah-wah solo.

Oh bingo bingo. Between that and the fact that the guitar player in the video is wearing denim overalls (inna Jerry stylee) just made me want through a fuckin' hockey puck at the screen everytime that video came on. Fuck those guys.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

i can't believe that alex and miccio are siding agin me on something.

i'm not a big edie brickell fan -- i just can't stomach the indigo girls AT ALL.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:18 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what makes Anthony's frequent lapses into ridiculousness more frustrating.....he's not entirely insane.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

once i went to a coffee shop/bookstore with some friends. we discovered that there was this chick folk singer performing there. we took a seat and i announced, "i bet $10 that her first song will be 'closer to fine."

i won.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually saw 10,000 Maniacs perform on their In My Tribe tour at the Newport in Columbus, Ohio. She scolded the audience and told us that Columbus was one of the filthiest cities she'd ever seen. When everyone laughed, she stamped her little foot and said, "I'm not kidding, you should be ashamed!" Rock'n'roll, eh?

The opening act was some earnestly oppressed woman with an acoustic guitar no one had yet heard of. Tracy Chapman.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:22 (twenty-one years ago)

When everyone laughed, she stamped her little foot and said, "I'm not kidding, you should be ashamed!" Rock'n'roll, eh?

if only morrissey were american and female ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

besides, isn't she from rochester, ny (which, i imagine, is INDESCRIBABLY filthier than columbus at its nastiest)?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

AND BORING AS ALL GET OUT xpost

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

now that i'm about a decade removed from those AWFUL AWFUL GIRLS at my highs chool who loved the indigo girls so much, i can actually sort of...kind of...maybe...appreciate them...a little bit. just enough to give them a slight edge over the rather hapless edie brickell.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:28 (twenty-one years ago)

"closer to fine" is a fantastic song! as is "least complicated". edie brickell does little for me in general (although "circle" is a much better song than "what i am")

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:30 (twenty-one years ago)

i wish the indigo goils didn't sing so stridently and enunciate so carefully

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Indigo Girls just seemed so utterly humorless and Edie Brickell and New Bohemians (note: no "the" before Bohemians) were just such self-styled hippy fuckshits. Just awful, awful, awful music.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:33 (twenty-one years ago)

alex the proper christian attitude is to find a redeeming quality in all things.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:37 (twenty-one years ago)

Well, if it's one thing I've never been good at, it's being a proper Christian.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:38 (twenty-one years ago)

alex the proper christian attitude is to find a redeeming quality in all things

and a l'shana tovah to you, too!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 17 September 2004 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

That's what makes Anthony's frequent lapses into ridiculousness more frustrating.....he's not entirely insane.
True. True. Both I AND the King of the Potato People will vouch for his sanity.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 04:08 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, we get it - you all hate earnest young women of moderate intelligence with unshiny hair

come back when you can spell 'portentous'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:01 (twenty-one years ago)

there are like two dozen Indigo Girls songs as good as 'Closer to Fine'

there are like two Edie Brickell songs as good (' ') as 'What I Am'

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not a wah-wah, it's an envelope filter.

Both songs suck. Bad. "What I am" is an update of Popeye's theme song.

And the verse "I spent four years prostrate to the higher mind/got my paper and I was FREE" makes me cringe every time.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't think either song is so terrible, or so memorable, and probably like both better than anything I've heard sung by the affectless Natalie Merchant. Now, will some girl please like me?

― briania (briania), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:25 (twenty-one years ago)

edie, probably because of associated memories of being like 9 or 10 when it came out, and hearing it on the radio.

that combo of acoustic strum with blah girl-girl harmonies and
offensive bullshit-self-help lyrics on the indigo girls stuff, along with natalie merchant's voice and pete yorn's ouevre define for me the GREAT MEDIOCRE, which is a trillion times worse than anything else, even cancer.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:32 (twenty-one years ago)

good. so we ALL hate natalie merchant. excellent.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:33 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my goodness, these were my no 1 and no 2 favourite songs in yr 12. i had edie's "shooting rubber bands at the stars" tape imported. aaaaaah highschool

― gem (trisk), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Natalie Merchant's "Jealousy" is hysterical. It's like "You Oughta Know" on ludes.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'll take Edie. I like the minor, vaguely Eastern feel of the chorus, and it's kind of fun to sing "but I know what I know, if you know what I mean," in the way that tongue twisters are fun. Also, there's a certain coyness about it that's utterly missing from the Indigo Girls song -- although I don't mind "Closer to Fine," sometimes that big ol' strummy BEEN TO THE MOUNTAIN! part grates.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I like Natalie Merchant's "Carnival."

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

"carnival" is considerably less annoying than her other solo hits. That one about how she needs to thank you, lalalalalalalala....oh fuck.

I might get annoyed by them if I had to deal with them more often (the lyrics I hear are a bit much - so are Ted Leo's but he's got groove at least on Hearts Of Oak), but I have no real beef with the Indigo girls. "Closer To Fine" sound great, and well, I've had some classic futile crushes on girls like them before.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Edie Brickell is much more of a mooncalf.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:45 (twenty-one years ago)

i cannot recall a single natalie merchant or 10,000 maniacs song, though i have a distinct impression of the sound of her voice. i think this is significant.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

(i can only say nice things abt the indigo girls because i have not had to interact with one of their rabid fans for about a decade.)

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Carnival is a GREAT record, and there is exactly ONE person to thank for why it was so good - guitarist Jennifer Turner.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:48 (twenty-one years ago)

And you guys can suck chimp testicles, Edie Brickell is a good songwriter, with a gooder than fuck - albeit horribly fashion-impaired - band.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

that is not an album i would have expected you to champion, nick.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm amazed we haven't had a Paul Simon joke yet.

The best thing about Edie Brickell is that when I saw them in concert back in high school, Steve Forbert opened up, and he was GREAT. I'd never heard of him before.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

Indigo Girls have no sense of humor, their song structures, melodies, and harmonies are interchangeable from one song to the next, their music doesn't have a good beat, and you can't bug out to it. I don't exactly hate THEM, but I hate what their popularity has done to the modern notion of American folk music.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:52 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't hear "Closer To Fine" without thinking of this:

http://www.brunching.com/yourroommate.html

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:53 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not surprised Nick like Edie. That guitar solo is pure ween.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:54 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt Chamberlain - drummer, he of New Bohemians - is one of my favorite drummers on Earth at the moment. He's all over the place these days. If you've heard a Fiona Apple song, you've heard a Matt Chamberlain drum track.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 15:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Really? I didn't know that about Chamberlain. He is indeed a damn fine drummer. Did he play in Apple's touring band? My best friend's sister is Apple's roommate. She's so cute, a little person with big eyes and greasy hair. Grrrr...

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:00 (twenty-one years ago)

I actually saw 10,000 Maniacs perform on their In My Tribe tour at the Newport in Columbus, Ohio. She scolded the audience and told us that Columbus was one of the filthiest cities she'd ever seen. When everyone laughed, she stamped her little foot and said, "I'm not kidding, you should be ashamed!" Rock'n'roll, eh?

when i lived in chicago, my wife worked for Anderson Consluting and they gave us a free concert at where ever the Bulls play. it was Natalie Merchant. we went and laughed at all fucking, yuppie consulting fuckwads. Merchant opened the show by saying, "chicago, you guys sure do like your BEEEEEEEEEEEEER!" and just kept saying "BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER" really long and drawn out like that. of course she was making fun of the audience, but they really did like their beer, so they cheered along.

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:01 (twenty-one years ago)

Edie +... Redeemed by "Smile of a Dog" line.
Indigo Girls .. Affected harmonies. May as well be the Eagles.

Alex, the Newport is a real shithole though, you gotta admit.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:03 (twenty-one years ago)

NM is from Jamestown, not Rochester. My one drive through Jamestown didn't really inspire me to go back. Spent a lot of time in Columbus; it's no cleaner/dirtier than other cities its size.

I don't have any Paul Simon jokes, but my reaction to the 'four years prostrate' line has always been 'in your case, it was probably at least six'.

― Jeff Wright (JeffW1858), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:08 (twenty-one years ago)

i spent a night at the jamestown holiday inn when my rental truck broke down. jamestown = depressing

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Columbus isn't dirty. OSU is dirty.

― dave225 (Dave225), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Shookout - when I saw her, she had some older dude who was definitely NOT Chamberlain playing. She was drunk as piss and apparently not too happy with the dudes who made up her band at the moment. I think she would've liked him there instead.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:12 (twenty-one years ago)

I have however seen him perform with Tori Amos (who he has also done many, many recordings with), and it was quite honestly a really kick-ass show. Tori shows WITH band >>>>>> Tori shows without.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:13 (twenty-one years ago)

nick, you fascinate me

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:15 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, we get it - you all hate earnest young women of moderate intelligence with unshiny hair
Don't be making rude and baseless assumptions, gabbneb. I have no malice towards any of the acts I brought up in this thread. I actually like the Indigo Girls (and 10,000 Maniacs) music. Don't assume I'm some kind of troglodyte just because (I came to the conclusion) the lyrics to 'What I Am' are broken.

come back when you can spell 'portentous'
actually, I was almost going to write 'pretentious', but that would be mean-spirited and unfair as well as being a cliché

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:21 (twenty-one years ago)

I love threads like this, because they always lead down some alley like finding out about this guy Matt Chamberlain, beat-maker to the stars. Earning your living playing drums behind Edie Brickell, Fiona Apple and Tori Amos woulds be an interesting life.

― briania (briania), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:23 (twenty-one years ago)

i've always wondered about those studio hacks that get trussed up all alterna-style to go out and play with shania twain during her "rock" phase or something.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Indigo Girls have no sense of humor

well, as long as you also dislike fugazi

my reaction to the 'four years prostrate' line has always been 'in your case, it was probably at least six'.

it is a terrible line, but they went to Emory. where did you go?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:25 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, i'm being rude, but i think everyone else is being so too. i don't like prejudice against music/artists that are earnest and/or explicitly political, even if the music isn't good.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:27 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the notion of being oppressed by getting an expensive education.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:31 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, im gonna go ahead and say that im prejudiced against bad music.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:35 (twenty-one years ago)

i mean, i'm being rude, but i think everyone else is being so too.
(long sigh)
Okay, I know you were merely stating your opinion, but the tenor of your previous post, almost sounded like a personal dig. Like you were implying I'm a sexist pig of something.
Or am I just being too touchy?

i don't like prejudice against music/artists that are earnest and/or explicitly political, even if the music isn't good.
Okay, it's official, if gabbneb ever disses U2, Bruce Springsteen or the Clash, we have to remind him of this post.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I love the two latter artists, and earnestness isn't what I dislike about the former, who I'm mostly indifferent to.

Like you were implying I'm a sexist pig of something.

I'm talking about everyone here, and saying that I think there's a gender dimension, because these artists are being criticized for qualities that male artists are less criticized for.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh, Okay.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:47 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb have you ever read a billy bragg thread on ilm???

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

no, he doesn't interest me much. is he criticized for his earnestness or the particulars of his politics?

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 16:59 (twenty-one years ago)

oh my , yes

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Has there ever been a more boringly literal-minded songwriter than Billy Bragg?

― amateur!!ST, Friday, 17 September 2004 17:00 (twenty-one years ago)

on quick look, that looks like particulars and literalism (Indigo Girls are being criticized for being vague), excepting John D's interpretation

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:05 (twenty-one years ago)

Natalie Merchant is a steamy cunt.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Is that a compliment or an insult?
Also, why does she sing with an accent, but doesn't seem to talk with one?

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

is he criticized for his earnestness or the particulars of his politics?

ok, poorly worded - this was supposed to be an opposition

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:17 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't listen to Natalie Merchant at all. "Carnival" gives me kidney stones.

Wasn't there a rather cool early-90s hip-hop song that sampled "What I Am"?

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

it's probably something by digable development or arrested planets or something, right?

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 17:22 (twenty-one years ago)

it's probably something by digable development or arrested planets or something, right?

No, that'd be that obvious answer, but it wasn't either of them.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Don't know (or care) what the lyrics are, but I'm ridiculously tolerant of tuneful folk-rock strummin' wimmin' who can harmonize; and it takes two to harmonize, so the Indigos take it. "What I Am" never did much for me either way, but I remain baffled by all the many reviewers who absolutely reviled it, 'specially considering that Rickie Lee Jones usually got good reviews (as far as I can remember.) And of course, none of 'em were as good as Tracy Chapman or Michelle Shocked or Joni Mitchell.

And as for Natalie Merchant, I fucking HATE her, not only for her insipid music but also for her idiotic remarks back in '86, when she expressed genuine dread that R.E.M., because they were working with Don Gehman, J.C. Mellencamp's producer, were making a "heavy metal album!" Like, huh?!?! What an idiot - she's exactly the kind of person who woulda burst into heartbroken tears at the sight of Bob Dylan's Stratocaster at Newport in '65! 10000 Maniacs and one lunatic.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Brand Nubian sampled 'What I Am' on 'Slow Down'

― JaXoN (JasonD), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I really wish that Edie and the Indigos would team up and build a gigantic rocket that would then be used to shoot Natalie Merchant into the sun.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 17:55 (twenty-one years ago)

waiting in line at the coffee shop vs waiting in line at the art supply store

― kephm, Friday, 17 September 2004 17:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Indigo Girls can write the shit out of a song. If we're going to go the peace-love-hippie route, give me them over Simon and Garfunkle any damn day. And when did the fact that an artist is "humorless" become a reason for not giving them props? You people baffle me.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeanne, how do you feel re: Natalie Merchant and possibly introducing her to a celestial hydrogen furnace?

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

how do you feel re: Natalie Merchant

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Was that a reference to The Evil One? I thought it was more Indoge Girls defence.

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Natalie Merchant had her moments. I think there were three in total.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Was that a reference to The Evil One?

It was a Dan Perry kind of post

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Haha, so yes then!

― The Evil One (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:32 (twenty-one years ago)

(I know what you meant, I am recontextualizing for fun and profit)

― Dan Perry '08 (Dan Perry), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:33 (twenty-one years ago)

Brand Nubian sampled 'What I Am' on 'Slow Down'

That's the one - thank you!

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:35 (twenty-one years ago)

aww man - simon and garfunkel kick the shit out of all three of the others. paul simon wrote better songs in his sleep than anything by 10K maniacs, IG, or edie brickell. not a gender thing, either - i put joni mitchell and sandy denny and linda thompson above s&g...

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:37 (twenty-one years ago)

I remember having to work the Indigo Girls show at Marquette my sophomore year. That "I spent four years prostrate to the higher mind / got my paper and I was FREE" mentioned above got this HUGE resounding ROAR and I was like, this sucks.

― frankE (frankE), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:54 (twenty-one years ago)

I saw Natalie Merchant sing in NYC at St. John the Divine Cathedral at a memorial service for Allen Ginsberg and it was lovely. So there.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 18:56 (twenty-one years ago)

ok, this makes me hate them

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 18:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Hahaahhaah! Ooh! You're such a bad ass for graduating from college! Hahah.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:20 (twenty-one years ago)

yes, they're so anti-intellectual

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

and so much more dismissive of their privilege than more privileged indie-rockers

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:24 (twenty-one years ago)

if i'm totally wrong here, it's because i'm one of the high-schoolers amateurist hates

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:26 (twenty-one years ago)

what? where does that come from? why are you being an asshole?

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 19:30 (twenty-one years ago)

glory days well they'll pass you by glory days a.k.a. the pathos and humor of high school nostalgia

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

seriously, i'm not sure what caricature you're struggling to apply to other posters on this thread, but i don't think it fits.

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 19:32 (twenty-one years ago)

give me [the indigo girls] over Simon and Garfunkel any damn day

there's logic to this. I'd totally listen to an Indigo Girls CD-R comp made by somebody who I knew had taste and access to their rather huge discography).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:33 (twenty-one years ago)

and Jeanne you qualify taste-wise, but I don't know if you have that much of their stuff or any interest in making one of these

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:36 (twenty-one years ago)

where does that come from?

I was referring to this...

now that i'm about a decade removed from those AWFUL AWFUL GIRLS at my highs chool who loved the indigo girls so much

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:39 (twenty-one years ago)

and while I balk at the idea that Merchant/Indigo Girls/Brickell are getting ripped on solely cuz they and their fanbase are women (the word "mook" gets thrown around far too much for me to assume that ILM es muy macho in every sense), but S&G and Ted Leo have similar lyrical pretension as the Indigo Girls and don't get nearly as much crap (in part cuz S&G are probably catchier and you dance to the best Ted Leo).

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:40 (twenty-one years ago)

ack! are predominantly women. sorry.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:41 (twenty-one years ago)

Anthony, just get their best of (Retrospective). The only albums of theirs that I have is that one, their self-titled and Rites of Passage. (I'm just not so huge into them that it would warrant any more albums of theirs.)

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Or scratch that and just get Amy Ray's solo album, Stag.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:45 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb is a woman?!

haha true story: I only know "Closer to Fine" because K@hleen Edwards, who was then in my chemistry and world issues classes, used to play it all the time at high school coffeehouses. An early stepping-stone on her route to fame!

I still hear "What I Am" in pubs sometimes. I really don't like the lyrics, which do strike me as pretty blatantly anti-intellectual and in a gratingly smug and corny way, and I don't find the music at all interesting or appealing enough to overcome this. I can tune out lyrics but the music doesn't do much for me.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:49 (twenty-one years ago)

who is k@hleen edwards?

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 19:52 (twenty-one years ago)

the only people who call others out on their "privilege" are usually quite privileged themselves. Guilty white rich liberal.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 17 September 2004 19:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Sort of a folk-rocky singer/songwriter. I believe Failer was the title of her album and it seemed to get some good reviews and radio play. I think it placed on Pazz & Jop but I could be wrong. Chuck rates it IIRC. I haven't listened to it.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:00 (twenty-one years ago)

btw gabbneb is it ok to dislike anyone?

― amateur!!st, Friday, 17 September 2004 20:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Or scratch that and just get Amy Ray's solo album, Stag.

I think we have that one at the radio station! I'll check it out.

― manthony m1cc1o (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:12 (twenty-one years ago)

for some reason, I always thought the Indigo Girls lyric was "the closer I am to God". Don't ask me why. Always thought their schtick was grating and ran screaming in the other direction...

― Shakey Mo Collier, Friday, 17 September 2004 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

The answer is: Slayer

― 57 7th (calstars), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Kathleen Edwards is awesome. "Six O'Clock News" is one of my favourite songs of the last year-and-a-half. She supposedly has a new record out soon.

― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:32 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb is a woman?!

No, duh. I may have misinterpreted amst - I thought he was saying these people were awful because of how they were fans, rather than awful independent of their fandom.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Friday, 17 September 2004 20:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"What I Am"

I prefer the remix that some Italian DJ did in 1989. Andrew Weatherall must have really liked it too, 'cause he sampled it for "Loaded"!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 17 September 2004 21:57 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb is a woman?!

No, duh. I may have misinterpreted amst - I thought he was saying these people were awful because of how they were fans, rather than awful independent of their fandom.

-- gabbneb (gabbne...) (webmail), September 17th, 2004 4:37 PM. (gabbneb) (later) (link)

def. the latter

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 17 September 2004 22:27 (twenty-one years ago)

ok. sorry to misinterpret and to be an asshole.

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Can't comment on the whole scope of this thread but Green Day's version of "Closer to Fine" pales.

― Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Saturday, 18 September 2004 00:13 (twenty-one years ago)

Beavis, watching "What I Am": "Hey, she's married to that tiny South African dude who used to be in the Beatles."

Indigo Girls' "Virginia Wolff" has the Worst Lyric Ever: "You weathered the storm of cruel mortality." If that means what I think it's supposed to mean, no, she didn't. She's dead. (By drowning suicide, which makes the line even worse, as my friend Becca once pointed out.)

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 18 September 2004 01:12 (twenty-one years ago)

morrissey should lick natalie merchant.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 18 September 2004 01:18 (twenty-one years ago)

gabbneb, you would be gentleman, if you were a man. since you're not, you'll have to settle for being a gentlewoman.

anyway, thanks to the virginia wolff story, i now take back even the most tentative reassessment of the indigo girls i ventured on this thread.

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 01:40 (twenty-one years ago)

Hmmm...I don't think I properly conveyed the fact that I in fact actually OWN that first Indigo Girls CD with "Closer To Fine" on it. But I do; and even tho I haven't played it in like five years, I still fondly recall "Closer To Fine" and a couple of others, esp. that one with the "Calling you, calling you/From 10,000 miles away" refrain. (Hey, that's one mile per Maniac!)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Saturday, 18 September 2004 03:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"You weathered the storm of cruel mortality."

maybe they mean she lived through a lot of other people's deaths? like those movies that just keep coming out these days

― amateur!!!st (amateurist), Saturday, 18 September 2004 05:38 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm not aware of too many things

No shit.

I have to agree that it's the vomitous guitar solo that well and truly kills "What I Am."

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:15 (twenty-one years ago)

On the surface I think this is quite an inspired idea for a thread - good going Custos. I don't actually find the decision between the two to be so easy. I would have to hear both again back to back just to be sure, but the problem is I don't particularly want to hear either of them. So I guess I'll be trapped in purgatory forever between the two. OH well. Worse things have happened.

― Bimble (bimble), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:31 (twenty-one years ago)

Or scratch that and just get Amy Ray's solo album, Stag.

Yeah I was surprised how much I liked that record, given my low tolerance for all things Indigo. It's not great or anything, but it's nice and fuck-offish (even though the Joan Jett cameo is kind of a letdown).

Of these two songs, the Edie one has a pretty good groove, which is more than the Indigos ever had.

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:44 (twenty-one years ago)

Nicole Kidman *is* Virginia Wolff . . . in 'Friday the 13th Part XV'!

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Saturday, 18 September 2004 06:48 (twenty-one years ago)

Jeanne's recommendations are pretty otm. The first five studio albums are all listenable (the sixth has maybe two good songs, and I don't know the 7th and 8th, though I've heard decent tunes from them), but none are great (Rites of Passage stands out as the most consistent). So a comp is probably the way to go or to start. Retrospective seems pretty good, if imperfect. Here's my CD-R:

Strange Fire
Left Me a Fool (Back On The Bus, Y'all version)
Closer to Fine
Kid Fears (Back On The Bus, Y'all version)
Land of Canaan (self-titled version)
Southland in the Springtime
Hammer and a Nail
Hand Me Downs
Watershed
Three Hits
Galileo
Ghost
Chickenman
Cedar Tree
Mystery (1200 Curfews version)
Touch Me Fall
Language or the Kiss

This is 78-79 minutes. The last song I left off was "Secure Yourself"

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 18 September 2004 19:31 (twenty-one years ago)

We've got all the way down here without mentioning Emma Bunton's cover of "What I Am"?

(I have no opinion on either of the originals)

― The Lex (The Lex), Saturday, 18 September 2004 20:24 (twenty-one years ago)

other honorable mentions - Keeper of My Heart (which might actually be a better choice than Hand Me Downs above), Love Will Come to You, Prince of Darkness, Virginia Woolf, Airplane, This Train Revised, Let It Be Me, Power of Two, World Falls, Fugitive, Welcome Me, Jonas and Exekiel, Least Complicated, Romeo and Juliet, Love's Recovery, Fare Thee Well, The Wood Song

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 18 September 2004 20:36 (twenty-one years ago)

six years pass...

"Love Will Come To You" is terrific, gabbneb was right. Rites of Passage and the debut are totally classic.

― Euler, Thursday, 18 November 2010 01:55 (fourteen years ago)

I can't hear "Closer To Fine" without thinking of this:
http://www.brunching.com/yourroommate.html
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, September 17, 2004 3:53 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

oh man, totally didn't expect this link to still work but it does!!! A+ blast from the past

― undervalued aerosmith memorabilia I have appraised (bernard snowy), Thursday, 18 November 2010 02:07 (fourteen years ago)

yay brunching shuttlecocks! i still have some tina the troubled teen jpgs saved on my hd

― what's up, my cobbers, we're having Smorgy's tonight! (electricsound), Thursday, 18 November 2010 02:11 (fourteen years ago)

I used to hate both these songs and now I like both these songs

― aerosmith: the acid house years (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 18 November 2010 02:16 (fourteen years ago)

haha, I didn't know anyone who played "Closer To Fine" in the dorms but I can see that; on my hall it was Pearl Jam's "Black".

kinda feeling that Pearl Jam are the male Indigo Girls in some ways (note that I had a really high fever yesterday so my cogency ought to be taken with the usual grain of salt)

― Euler, Thursday, 18 November 2010 02:18 (fourteen years ago)

four years pass...

I keep wondering if we are ever going to have a collective change of heart and all accept that Closer to Fine is a tremendous song.

― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 05:58 (ten years ago)

closer to fine is great but galileo is better i think

― 1staethyr, Wednesday, 11 February 2015 07:37 (ten years ago)

two years pass...

Was hanging out with some people who were playing the first two Indigo Girls albums all evening, and remembered how "Closer to Fine" was my freshman year of college and was so much a song about education and liberal arts. And sounded so different from anything on radio, being almost entirely just voices and acoustic guitars (+ a little tambourine and pennywhistle).

Anyway, I heard "Closer to Fine" and thought: wow, what a solid song. And heard "Kid Fears" and thought: wait, is this the best R.E.M. song? And remembered riding around in cars listening to that first album with the rest of the otherwise all-women literary-magazine staff.

― who even are those other cats (Eazy), Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:36 (eight years ago)

I absolutely love their first album. The third one is great too.

― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:36 (eight years ago)

I get how people can find "Closer to Fine" cheesy but are there really people who don't see it as a sterling instance of the kind of song it is?

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:41 (eight years ago)

Great Natalie Merchant:
Trouble Me
Candy Everybody Wants
These Are Days

Ok Natalie Merchant:
Kind & Generous
Carnival

I Hate it Never Want to Hear Again:
Wonder

Open to liking it, haven't found the melody after 25 years:
Photograph w/REM

― LimbsKing, Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:42 (eight years ago)

1-2-3 is my Indigo Girls jam btw

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:46 (eight years ago)

I meant the s/t btw not Strange Fire

though that's good too

I ride for them through Rites of Passage. "Virginia Wolff"!

― droit au butt (Euler), Thursday, 13 April 2017 20:42 (eight years ago)

Listening more to s/t, realized that the first songs have few/no drums in a way that keep it from sounding dated.

― who even are those other cats (Eazy), Thursday, 13 April 2017 21:24 (eight years ago)

three years pass...

a little tambourine and pennywhistle

Which I found out recently is by Irish band Hothouse Flowers!

Old-Skool ILM very much living up to the "bag of dicks" stereotype on this thread.

― Andrew Farrell, Wednesday, 3 February 2021 17:41 (four years ago)

seven months pass...

Is this truly the closest thing to a general Indigo Girls thread on ILM(??)

I'm realizing, very belatedly, how great they are... but intimidated at the idea of getting a grasp on an act with 15 studio albums (not to mention solo / side projects). Beyond the S/T (which I revisited for the first time since, probably, high school – it made me laugh at how good it is, on a song-by-song basis), and the Best-Of / Essential playlists, any tips on how to "get into them"?

― juristic person (morrisp), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:27 (four years ago)

Light some incense

― calstars, Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:44 (four years ago)

Goddamn, for decades now I assumed they were saying "The closer I am to find," which I always assumed was an awkward but deliberate grammatical mistake.

― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 28 September 2021 17:54 (four years ago)

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