How To Kill MP3 Blogs

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This seems like a good place to start.

I'm still waiting for someone to do one where they write anecdotes about their pain and post terrible emo songs that "mean a lot" to them and "got them through" something or other. That, and the ones which are like those awful cds some people make at their weddings - "this Billy Joel song reminds me of when I first met Lisa..."

Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:18 (twenty-one years ago)

How To Divide/Differentiate MP3 Blogs. it's sometimes hard to believe anyone would want to download any of those songs now given the saturated coverage most of them have received so it seems rather pointless. i think people (including industry types) are aware enough of the difference between these useless livejournal ones and the more critical theory-based efforts - and you would think it's the former that will be hunted down with more vigour (even tho technically there's no harm in uploading 'Hey Ya' or 'Milkshake' because everyone already bought it?)

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Matt, stop stealing my ideas!

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:53 (twenty-one years ago)

"I'm posting this MP3 of Pearl Jam's "Black" because of a guy I live next to in college. One time, when I was rocking out (thoughtfully) to Ten, and this song came up, he came into my room & told me to turn it up. I though, 'Hell, yeah, beats that Rush shit.' I turned it up, and he sat in a chair for the entire song, staring at a spot just in front of his feet. Every time I tried to talk to him, he'd shush me, and just stare at that spot in the floor until the song was finished. Then, he stood up, nodded, and walked off.

"Turns out he got a lapdance to that song. That's hot shit. Hope this gives you a boner, too."

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

NOTE: I have no idea why I put that in quotes, as it's a true story, but whatever.

David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:59 (twenty-one years ago)

For every Frontline, there's ten Crossfires.
Shrug.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 13:00 (twenty-one years ago)

David Bowier songs rules.

Velveteen Bingo (Chris V), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 13:02 (twenty-one years ago)

three months pass...
This is making me laugh:

I only visit a handful of mp3 blogs. Not that I'm above becoming a junkie, but because I really enjoy finding out about things all on my own. Also, the number that were created within the last year just makes following them all daily an exhaustive task. But I do want to pick one nit in particular: Scenestars. They've been guilty of this sort of self-important carelessness in the past, but today they're hosting three (!) fucking tracks from the New Order album which isn't even due in stores for two more months. It's bad enough when three separate mp3 blogs will post different tracks from any given record, but to have them all in one place is just a gross mishandling of the responsibilities that come with running such a portal. (So is exploiting the good nature of your readers in an effort to stock up on free iPods and other tech trinkets, but I'll save that gripe for another day.) So, fuck Scenestars and any other mp3 blog that carries on in this manner. It's about giving people a taste of what's coming, not about supplying them with a full quarter of the material from a highly anticipated record.

The comments on both posts are especially hilarious, if only because it's just as illegal to host one track as it is two, or even three.

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:40 (twenty years ago)

Well, yeah, but it's harder to make an argument in favor of mp3 blogs if you have a lot of sites posting a third of a record. Obvs the ethics of doing an mp3 blog is complicated and flawed, but there are certainly ways of doing it responsibly.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

So theres the three missing New Order tracks all the Soulseekers keep whining about in the chatrooms...!

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

Error

Journal has been deleted. If you are audiogasms, you have a period of 30 days to decide to undelete your journal.

Wow, you really did kill it.

Broken Hipster (Broken Hipster), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 19:19 (twenty years ago)

Stylus is doing this w/o artists' permission btw.

Snappy (sexyDancer), Wednesday, 9 February 2005 19:57 (twenty years ago)

ten months pass...
http://redlightglow.com has apparently been shut down for posting the entire Rilo Kiley discography and bunch of other complete albums.

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Monday, 26 December 2005 15:43 (twenty years ago)

Huh... that site James mentions there was apparently hosting tons of full albums as Rapidshare links, including shit like Bob Marley's "Legend" (!?) and Franz Ferdinand CD#2, though they did have this "disclaimer" to offer:
"DISCLAIMER: "The RIAA dictates that all music downloaded should be removed after previewing for twenty-four hours. What you do with the music you collect here is your own responsiblity, not ours." Translation: Don't sue us, we're poor. Also, fuck the RIAA."

Probably not so smart.

Mugged Outside the Jabberjaw, 1993 (Bent Over at the Arclight), Monday, 26 December 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

What the heck ever happened to lemonred, gelandweave and governmentnames?

Otis., Monday, 26 December 2005 18:28 (twenty years ago)

Haha, Rilo Kiley is CRAP!!!!

GET EQUIPPED WITH BUBBLE LEAD (ex machina), Monday, 26 December 2005 20:23 (twenty years ago)

Pinsky from Salute Your Shorts is in Rilo Kiley. I've never heard them but because of him they can never be just bad. Maybe just VH-1 "awesomely bad" or something but never bad alone.

Ironic bandmembers FTW

Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 26 December 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

Lemonred is now at http://www.lemon-red.org/blog/

Government Names is still at http://governmentnames.blogspot.com/

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 00:37 (twenty years ago)

rilo kiley is a bunch of overrated indie rock crap.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 01:48 (twenty years ago)

i thought there would be proper instructions on here.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 01:50 (twenty years ago)

Hmm, so Mogwai took down Said The Gramophone for a short while, and PopText is also 'having legal difficulties'…

carson dial (carson dial), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

Abby's troubles are rather more serious than mine, but it's been a pretty ugly few days. I really thought that labels had figured things out in the past six months.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:06 (twenty years ago)

figured things out?

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:07 (twenty years ago)

Realised that the mp3blogs-who-bother are good promotional tools, and it's the suck-ass "free download of an album, yo!" that need to be squelched.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:09 (twenty years ago)

i mean, our intent is to be a promotional tool, whereas, yeah, the other guys' intent is to save people from buying music.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:10 (twenty years ago)

i think Mogwai are pretty justified in forcing you to take down anything that you put up by them but i see your point too.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:14 (twenty years ago)

Mogwai have every right - I'm just surprised that they (or Rock Action, or whoever it was who told the IFPI to do something) went to our host instead of to us direct. That's what I'd have expected them to do a year ago, but by now I thought PR/label folks were familiar enough with the scene to be friendly instead of really really hostile.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:18 (twenty years ago)

i'd guess they just treated all the blogs equally: the one's posting a single track and raving about the album & the ones posting the entire album without comment. it makes sense to do it that way to nip it in the bud and it's probably easier for them, legally. music blogs are increasing exponentially and if you were posting a single track at StG i dare say there would be other tracks from the album posted on other blogs which may well add up to the entire record in individual tracks.

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:30 (twenty years ago)

What the heck ever happened to lemonred, gelandweave and governmentnames?
-- Otis. (odo...), December 26th, 2005 1:28 PM. (later)

Gov't Names still here! although DK doesn't really write anymore and I only write about Bmore music there now and kind of deliberately took myself out of the "rap blog" game. Ethan is constantly telling me that G&W is gonna have new shit soon, I hope that's true.

Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:34 (twenty years ago)

Sorry to hear 'bout yer hassles, Sean.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

At the risk of vomitous idealism, the kind of people that tend to post whole albums with OMG WTF THIS ALBUM ROXXOR DOWNLOAD IT ALL NOW won't be deterred one iota by any of this.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

I didnt know Rilo Kiley was highly rated.

Stephen C (ihope), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

perhaps not edward o, but if i were the artist concerned i would still make the move to get them removed. what's the alternative?

jed_ (jed), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:40 (twenty years ago)

jed - Like I say, I'm just surprised their modus operandus hasn't changed in the past year, given that blogs like Said the Gramophone are dealing with most of these labels in official capacities, anyway.

Well, that and to me it seems easier to contact blog-owners direct, rather than figuring out their webhost's contact email address. But like you imply, that tactic is rather less strongarmed and might engender a shrug from sketchier sites.

I do think it's dumb that we might have to consider getting some weird, copyright-blind Scandinavian host, or something -- not because i have any desire to keep something online when an artist objects to it, but just to protect our asses from losing a year's worth of hosting payments because a label goes over our head to the source.

Again and finally, I appreciate that I wouldn't have these headaches if I wasn't doing something illegal!


John - thanks. Abby-poptext got a rather scarier email, really, in terms of its implications for the rest of us... Someone came knocking, insisting that she buy a blanket licence... (I don't want to say more without checking with her!)

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

My problems haven't been with the labels, but the Mechanical Copyright Protection Society (MCPS) and Performing Rights Society (PRS), who represent the rights of UK music publishers and composers.... Somebody saw one of 'their' tracks up, and gave them a call instead of contacting me to take it down; the MCPS folks then cross-referenced every track I had hosted and will provide me with a list of folks who are no-go. Which, I'm predicting, is going to be fairly extensive.

It adds a new angle to the mp3-blogger risk, since even if I pay a blanket license per quarter to them for the right to host full-length streams of their artists (who are pretty much every major label-signed act), the legality is still contingent on permission from those who own recordings, ie the labels. So, back at square one.

So, a new challenge. Even if the labels turn a blind eye, these guys aren't.

Abby (abby mcdonald), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

Oh, and like Sean, I fully understand the illegality of my actions, I just take a more expansive view of my role and value in terms of artist promotion etc. Particularly since Poptext tries to bring the genre to people who might not usually get exposed to it.

Abby (abby mcdonald), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)

I wonder if there's a link between something like URGE and these moves?

Tom (Groke), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

I honestly never thought that audioblogs were "in the clear"; we'll have to deal with a martyr somewhere around here afore '08 or so.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:11 (twenty years ago)

xpost
hahaha - PERPETUAAAAA!

it does make me wonder if we need to start (siiiigh) talking about some regional mp3blog networks, to share the financial burden of licenses and get a better negotiating position.

unfortunately, as soon as we start talking about money, it means that mp3blogs will start to require revenue. and that means that either subscription fees or advertising. the former isn't very likely and the latter is something i personally dislike very much. and this of course will be a huge obstacle for all the cool little mp3blogs that we all imagine appearing. ("MOOMINRAP: the finnish hip-hop blog")

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

ok maybe only i imagine that one.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

I'll be too busy playing Halo III and Super Madden NFL on my cellphone next year to listen to and read some dude's Mp3blog.

dali madison's nut (donut), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:17 (twenty years ago)

The thing is, the legal issue will probably bring on self-censoring via anticipated reactions, until we really only see tracks getting posted which the blogger can bet won't be challenged; certain labels, certain artists. I doubt I'll be able to continue posting mainstream pop, which was the whole point.

Abby (abby mcdonald), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

Seriously, someone needs to make a Finnish hip-hop blog, some of that stuff is terrifically catchy.

Jed, I think the point is that ultimately, the ones that are doing the real damage will thrive and prosper. Why doesn't everyone start up an MP3 blog? Work, effort, hosting, writing ability in some cases (hey, never stopped me when I started). Where people hide behind anonymity, there's less risk, less incentive to put passion into the writing and promotion, and therefore less benefit to the artists. (Okay, assuming there IS benefit to the artists. I like to think there is..). Whereas people with a strong brand identity to their writing who put a lot into it... are vulnerable, but also have more potential to do good, and the MP3 blogosphere will lose those guys first.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:27 (twenty years ago)

edward o - what's yr blog?!

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

I used to do Enthusiastic but Mediocre, but now don't.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

oh! you should update country glamour more often!

sean gramophone (Sean M), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

I know, I know, but I haven't actually got any time at the moment. Before this large round of legal issues, I was planning to recentralise in the new year and write about everything rather than genre pigeonholing, now I don't think I will bother.

edward o (edwardo), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

So, am I the only one who remembers when I predicted that MP3 blogs would increasingly receive more legal problems, and more or less every single response was calling me an idiot, claiming I had no idea what I was talking about, and half-baked legal theories about how MP3 blogs don't actually infringe copyright if they have a disclaimer/review the music/don't host childporn/something?

Oh, I am? Oh, hum.

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:17 (twenty years ago)

Actually I remember when you swung your half-assed bullshit around about a year ago, wailing about how you were some sort of Cassandra simply by stating the obvious: some people were likely to take issue with what we were doing (unsurprisingly, some do) and we would all have to pay the price (most of us seem to be doing just fine).

But hey, feel fre to drop by with a misguided, mean-spirited, self-congratulatory "I told you so" any ol' time, pal! We'll drink peppermint schnapps and wax nostalgiac about other times you annoyed me.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:28 (twenty years ago)

Forkslovetofu, could you help me find the thread where you told me that MP3 blogs didn't violate copyright infringement if the music was used for a review because that falls under the doctrine of "fair use" and thus I was wrong that any MP3 bloggers would ever be prosecuted? I can't find it. It may have been on MonkeyFilter instead of here.

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

I thought Mickey was like, in jail, or hiding from the FCC or FBI or some shit...

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:36 (twenty years ago)

Submitting plea agreement in early 2006, so I'll probably be sentenced around mid-year.

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

Actually (not so) modestmickey: according to Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 the posting of copyrighted materials in many MP3 blogs is perfectly acceptable legally so long as there is criticism or comment:

the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.
posted by IgnorantSlut at 04:45AM UTC on August 10, 2004

Oh, it was actually one of your other monkey friends who brought that up. My apologies, Forkslovetofu! I fully retract my statement that you come up with half-baked legal theories.

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)

a): I'll continue to argue the "fair use" point if you'd like but as you note, we've done this a few times already.
b): I'm pretty damn sure I've never suggested that no audioblog kids would be prosecuted. I may well have said that they SHOULDN'T. I might have said that they wouldn't be sentenced.
c): ah, monkeyfilter.
d): The point, dude, is that it shows a lack of class to sniff the air meaningfully and affect an air of superiority when you hear that somebody else has problems.
e): I'm hardly happy to hear that you're still dealing with your own shit; it only further confounds me why you'd want to make that sort of comment in the first place.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:40 (twenty years ago)

In any case, I'm already sorry I bit on that hook.
I'll drop it if you will.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

a): you honestly believe that? Man, you and Sean or somebody should go to court and try to use that defense. seriously, go for it. it'd be the opportunity to radically change copyright law. it could help thousands of people in the future.
b): quoth monkeyfilter: "Virtually EVERY blog on that "wiki" has a disclaimer stating that they'll happily take down a track if asked by the artist or the copyright holder. Quite a few of us (not me, most of what I post is too obscure I guess) have received C+D letters and we remove the track. That's it." That's it? That's it? Hmm.
c): no comment.,
d): oh no! how dare somebody sniff the air meaningfully and affect an air of superiority when made aware that somebody else has problems! I can't think of anybody else who has done that before
e): we all get in our snarky moods. especially when our detractors admit we're right (but then sort of go back and pretend like they aren't)

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:49 (twenty years ago)

self-righteousness TURNS ME ON

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

All you're saying is "They can CRUSH you!" I'm asking, why would they even bother?
posted by forksclovetofu at 12:00AM UTC on August 11, 2004

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:52 (twenty years ago)

Forkslovetofu, Dec 27, 2005:
I honestly never thought that audioblogs were "in the clear"; we'll have to deal with a martyr somewhere around here afore '08 or so.
-- Forksclovetofu (forksclovetof...) (webmail), December 27th, 2005. (Forksclovetofu)

Forkslovetofu, Aug 11, 2004
All you're saying is "They can CRUSH you!" I'm asking, why would they even bother?
posted by forksclovetofu at 12:00AM UTC on August 11, 2004

Anyways, my apologies to the rest of ILM for filling this board up with my flame war like some sort of somewhat-more-sane Marissa Marchant. I'm done now.

Mickey (modestmickey), Tuesday, 27 December 2005 23:55 (twenty years ago)

one suggestion for mp3 bloggers: don't put the link to the file on the blog, just write about it and encourage people to e-mail you if they would like to hear the track. even if you end up firing off an automatic reply to dozens (heh) of people it won't take up THAT much time.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

xpost: Yeah, in '04 I couldn't believe that there would be enough media coverage about audioblogs that anybody would give a half-a-shit enough to want to go picking fleas. By and large, that seems to have held true; nobody with any pull anywhere is batshit crazy enough to believe that we're a serious problem. We're not any kind of problem; I'll continue to patiently say it again and again: we help SELL rekkids. Most A+R and CEO types really do "get it" on this point; occasionally, some don't. As our profile comes further and further above ground, I think somebody IS gonna take a fall; but it's likely to be someone who thinks that "mp3blogging"=filesharing, which is about as accurate as burlesque=stripclub.

As for the rest of your responses, I'm more than happy to let you have the last word.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

The best solution (which has next to no chance of actually happening I'm sure) would surely be that artists actually wised up a bit and demanded some sort of final word on which kind of (corporately unauthorised) promotion they were OK with, rather than being blinded by the OMG I'VE GOT A DEAL accept-standard-contract reaction. I'd like artists to understand a bit better that *they* are the ones who provide the carriers of actual value in the whole equation. As I said, fat chance.

As for labels and publishers; I certainly understand their point when dealing with almost wholesale-type download communities, but this heavihandedness is best summed up by the caption "The revolution has come, and we're racing to be first against the wall!" or something.

The Vintner's Lipogram (OleM), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:23 (twenty years ago)

I've never once argued that MP3 blogs don't help sell records. I've always thought that the coming legal problems with MP3 blogs would be from people who are unfortunately misguided, and the entire weight of the crime is entirely too heavy. I'm glad you've come to realize that I've been right all along.

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:49 (twenty years ago)

"I'm glad you've come to realize that I've been right all along."

man, I REALLY hope you talk like this in real life. You must get a lot of bloody noses.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:50 (twenty years ago)

real life - yes, bloody noses - no

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:53 (twenty years ago)

Stop breaking the law and you won't have these problems. All the excuses in the world won't change that fact.

Reggie, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:56 (twenty years ago)

I find your faith in the fairness of law enforcement amusing.

Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 00:58 (twenty years ago)

Just because you perceive a law to be unfair doesn't mean that breaking it is the appropriate way to challenge it.

Reggie, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 01:08 (twenty years ago)

TMBG have the right idea - theyve been releasing mp3 versions of whole albums online for donkeys years.

Trayce (trayce), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

one suggestion for mp3 bloggers: don't put the link to the file on the blog, just write about it and encourage people to e-mail you if they would like to hear the track. even if you end up firing off an automatic reply to dozens (heh) of people it won't take up THAT much time.
-- Sororah T Massacre (stevem7...) (webmail), December 27th, 2005. (blueski)

I have to disagree that this is a better alternative. If the Justice Department (theoretically) wanted to bust blog A, which practiced this, they would email the author. Then, the author would respond with the song. That is all the evidence needed to prosecute in court. This is how they bust people who sell pirated works online -- they buy a copy first and keep evidence of the transaction. Not only that, but emailing the file legally constitutes "uploading" which makes the sentence harsher. Copyright infringement in which the defendant "uploads" is a more serious crime.

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 01:18 (twenty years ago)

i see that you were trying to drag me into this argument, upthread, mickey, and i resent it. i'm not one of the cats who thinks mp3blogs fall under "Fair Use".

sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 09:39 (twenty years ago)

If the Justice Department (theoretically) wanted to bust blog A, which practiced this, they would email the author. Then, the author would respond with the song. That is all the evidence needed to prosecute in court.

True, but then they only have proof that a copyright digital file was circulated without permission to a single recipient. They can't prove the file was sent to more people, so if they want to prosecute somebody for sending THE OWNERS of the property a copy of their property that's fair enough, but also incredibly silly, and I like to think this sort of incident would highlight the absurdity of the situation all the more.

As for the 'uploading' aspect, e-mailing is no worse than putting it on a webserver (YSI's or your own or anyone's) so it's no more serious.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 10:33 (twenty years ago)

Another option is 30 second extracts or whatever. Presumably copyright owners would be more lenient about this, but still objecting on paper. Of course most bloggers lack the technical expertise to do this but maybe they should be taking more responsibility on that front too?


Has anyone had any problems with more obscure and older material? I've not heard of any. If it's only unreleased material or top-selling current material that's causing legal threats, best to just leave that to the torrentors anyway surely.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

I suspect that partial excerpts would be MUCH easier to defend as fair use for critical and commentary purposes - like when a newspaper prints a paragraph or two from a novel or a page from a comic or some such, everyone is happy, but if they took out a whole short story and printed it they'd be in trouble. I think that defence means that no one would bother trying to prosecute, when there are thousands offering whole songs or even albums. Where the time limit comes is anyone's guess.

Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 13:02 (twenty years ago)

i'm not one of the cats who thinks mp3blogs fall under "Fair Use".

Nor am I. I've been in a few interviews where the writer was trying to get me to say that I think it is, and I just don't. Given the laws currently on the books, doing an mp3 blog is illegal. The enforcement of the laws is wildly inconsistent and most people involved will look the other way or simply won't know what's going on, so the odds of getting in trouble are relatively low. Doing an mp3 blog is a calculated risk and unless the laws change, this won't change.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 13:11 (twenty years ago)

out of print / deleted / can't buy them for love of money yadda yadda type things would be more interesting to discover. no?

call me old-fashioned.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:02 (twenty years ago)

Certainly that stuff is more interesting to record nerds, but most Americans haven't heard Girls Aloud/Brits haven't heard Dave Matthews band, etc. Our philosophy is to post "excellent songs that our readers probably haven't heard". It depends on yr audience, I think -- there's not much point to a hip-hop blog posting "Jesus Walks" right now.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:16 (twenty years ago)

make them streamable only. or embedded. that really gets on the tits of any self respecting mp3 leecher. embed it in a flash file. or real audio - decent enough quality but just enough to put the real audio haters off.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

and don't post any mogwai.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

I'm not a student of American law, but based on what I do understand about fair use, audioblogging seems to follow the principle if not the letter and presents us with the best argument if any of this sees court time.

RE: "I've been right all along" - My suggestion is that when and if the industry decides that it's worth the bad publicity, money and time to take a swipe at a snowballing audioblog community, they'll likely go after a file sharing site. Probably someone who's hosting, say, the complete Rilo Kiley discog. Then they'll call that site an "mp3 blog" in the media and make a stab at painting everybody the same color regardless of intention.

And yeah: out of print, deleted, hard to find is the tact I generally try to take; often I'll move toward things that are in print but more obscure or less likely to catch the average listeners attention or new enough where I hope attendant hype will buoy them up. I'm personally champing at the bit to put together some short pieces on Charlie Patton, Bill Monroe and Madlamini and Her Witchdoctors. Hopefully over the next day or so.

xpost, what Sean said. And I'd rather offer shitty quality sound and let people walk around with it. I don't listen to music in front of my computer as much as I do on the go; better to get something with not so clean of a dub than to be forced to listen onsite.

Future conversation: If we really believe we're being helpful and we want to support artists and labels that are sympathetic to our means of promotion, would it make sense to start excluding tracks by bands that play on labels that have made it clear they disapprove? Sony, for instance? Lord knows, I'd like to put up some Jake Shimabukuro; but as much as Sony has proven user unfriendly, I'm loathe to.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:29 (twenty years ago)

xpost
oh and haha - i should point out that i am not cheer-leading for dave matthews! he was just the first example that came to mind.

forks - i certainly think it'd be worth having a list of bands who have expressed educated opposition.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:35 (twenty years ago)

i bet Mogwai don't even use/like the internet.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

why "educated" opposition?

RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

True, but then they only have proof that a copyright digital file was circulated without permission to a single recipient. They can't prove the file was sent to more people, so if they want to prosecute somebody for sending THE OWNERS of the property a copy of their property that's fair enough, but also incredibly silly, and I like to think this sort of incident would highlight the absurdity of the situation all the more.

As for the 'uploading' aspect, e-mailing is no worse than putting it on a webserver (YSI's or your own or anyone's) so it's no more serious.

You're not really understanding this. First of all, it's irrelevant how many people a copyrighted file is sent to. In the above scenario, that is one single count of criminal copyright infringement. There's nothing in the law stating that it only occurs on some sort of large scale. Also, in the above scenario, the MP3 blog owner wouldn't be sending the material to the copyright holders. It is government officials who run these operations -- the Department of Justice. From what I understand, the DOJ doesn't run a record label.

And the 'uploading' part is right. Running an MP3 blog, it is possible that you may get away with it unproven that you uploaded the files. ie, "Here is a link to a Rilo Kiley song that just so happens to exist on a server somewhere on the internet, and I am directing you to it." Emailing is instant proven uploading with no way out.

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:40 (twenty years ago)

I don't think it's likely that somebody would get away with not "uploading" in an MP3 blog case... it's just possible.

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 15:42 (twenty years ago)

You're not really understanding me. First of all, it's relevant working on the logical basis that the prosecutors tend to target the sites they believe are most popular (though this may not always be the case), including (in many cases) targetting users of p2p clients who are sharing thousands of files as opposed to hundreds or less - though I know there has also been a 'policy' of random targetting in effect.

In the above scenario it may have been the DOJ but in other scenarios I know of the British Phonographic Industry have contacted the server providers/webhosts and ordered them to contact the blogger rather than go direct. Theoretically it's possible that a BPI rep would attempt to 'entrap' the blogger by requesting copyright material from them so as to prove violation (I probably would if I were them!). 'Government officials' would not enter the picture unless the site was forcibily shut down AND the site's owner prosecuted, afaik.

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:02 (twenty years ago)

Sonorah,

'Government officials' would not enter the picture unless the site was forcibily shut down AND the site's owner prosecuted, afaik.

This happens all the time. My whole thesis is that eventually this will happen to an MP3 blog.

First of all, it's relevant working on the logical basis that the prosecutors tend to target the sites they believe are most popular (though this may not always be the case), including (in many cases) targetting users of p2p clients who are sharing thousands of files as opposed to hundreds or less

This is true, but targetting is an entirely separate issue from prosecuting. If the DOJ/foreign government/whathaveyou wants to shut down Warez-Mart.com (I just made that up) then they don't need to prove anyhow that they are one of the more popular sites. They just need to prove that one single instance of criminal copyright infringement occurred.

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:08 (twenty years ago)

I've never once argued that MP3 blogs don't help sell records. I've always thought that the coming legal problems with MP3 blogs would be from people who are unfortunately misguided, and the entire weight of the crime is entirely too heavy. I'm glad you've come to realize that I've been right all along.

I've been following this discussion with interest, as I got an iMic for Hanukkah and thus now have the ability to digitize some some of my archival vinyl/demo material. I'd feel best about it going the Lacunae route, tracking the artists down and asking permission, but that's arduous enough someone like me (law student/full time job/one daughter/another on the way/barely enough time to sleep) would probably just throw in the towel. My motivation for MP3 blogging would be similar to why I liked DJing so much - the ability to turn people on to things I like - but with the US copyright laws the way they are, there's no way I'm just gonna post something without due diligence.

I'm studying to be a copyright attorney. I promise to help make things better once I graduate. :)

mike a, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:09 (twenty years ago)

mike a, that's awesome. This whole ordeal has been the inspiration for me to go to law school now. I'm currently in my senior year of undergraduate study. Would you mind if I email you to talk about law school and specifically copyright law study?

Mickey (modestmickey), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:12 (twenty years ago)

That's fine, except I haven't gotten to the copyright classes yet! I'm finishing up the core curriculum and don't get to the fun IP classes for awhile.

mike a, Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)

i bet Mogwai don't even use/like the internet.

not so!

perhaps the issue with the mogwai thing was that all but one track of the album leaked, and then that track was the one that was blogged, and it was fairly widely linked to (eg here)? just guessing...

toby (tsg20), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

Well, it seems pretty clear that labels and such are most touchy about leaking songs from albums by established acts that have yet to hit stores, and it's easy to understand why - they want to have control of the marketing and how people first experience the music. I've only ever been asked to remove a song four times in the four years I've been doing Fluxblog, and every time, this was the reason why.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 16:59 (twenty years ago)

with past experience of mogwai uploading, sometimes it's a case of it hitting online before band members get their mitts on a copy. and why should you get it before they do?

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 17:28 (twenty years ago)

I'm not really a fan of putting up anything that hasn't been released yet; that seems to be overstepping one's boundaries. Exceptions to be made when the material just isn't available in the US.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 17:35 (twenty years ago)

and why should you get it before they do?

i just post things that i think are great; i'm not sure why it's my responsibility to make sure that i'm slower to hear things than the band in question... like i said, though, my wondering is not why a given band (in this case, mogwai) took exception, but rather why their people went about things in the way that they did.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Wednesday, 28 December 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

Sean, it sounds like a pretty straightforward and agreeable ethical decision to me. How would you feel if I started an MP3 blog that somehow posted your postings before you put them on Said The Gramophone? (For obvious reasons that's pretty much impossible, but hey).

Mickey (modestmickey), Thursday, 29 December 2005 06:50 (twenty years ago)

Especially, imagine if those postings were early versions riddled with embarrassing grammatical errors, or something like that. If what people are saying about that Mogwai track is true (early version, will be changed in final release), well, it's all the more inappropriate.

Mickey (modestmickey), Thursday, 29 December 2005 06:51 (twenty years ago)

mickey what is yr slsk username?

j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 29 December 2005 06:56 (twenty years ago)

Mickey - I'm talking about the general case, Mickey, not the specific one. I'm not really sure why you're taking such an intentionally antagonistic tact. (And I mean the personally antagonistic vibe of yr posts, not the fact that you disagree.) Maybe I'm just reading too far into it.

I think the problem with advance leaks is when a band resents the leak. I don't think the problem is that blogs don't check to make sure that the band has heard the song beforehand.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 29 December 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

sean--yr a canuck right.
i thot we payed more for dvd/cd-rs and tapes, and that tax went into a pool for musicians (making canadian downloading legal), is this not correct...

anthony easton (anthony), Thursday, 29 December 2005 10:16 (twenty years ago)

i thought it was about home taping, anthony?

toby (tsg20), Thursday, 29 December 2005 10:38 (twenty years ago)

i don't think mickey is being antagonistic. but when you would post something like:

my wondering is not why a given band (in this case, mogwai) took exception, but rather why their people went about things in the way that they did.

i think he would be right to. c'mon, it's perfectly clear why they would go about things this way! a friendly email to you asking you politely to remove not only copyrighted but unreleased material would not really communicate the message they want to, either to you or to other bloggers who might hear about it. really, the more disingenuous the bloggers responses on this thread the more clear it becomes exactly why Rock Action did exactly what did what they did.

jed_ (jed), Thursday, 29 December 2005 14:02 (twenty years ago)

It adds a new angle to the mp3-blogger risk, since even if I pay a blanket license per quarter to them for the right to host full-length streams of their artists (who are pretty much every major label-signed act), the legality is still contingent on permission from those who own recordings, ie the labels. So, back at square one.

It's easy to join the PRS in the UK, and I'd assume that most of the larger independent bands are members in order to take get radio royalties (plays on Peel etc).

I'm a bit obsessive and lame so I keep track of all the online activity relating to a certain band I have an interest in. I know the moment something is leaked on OINK, the random top 10 lists, the number of mp3 blogs and the mp3s they tend to post. It's really easy if you are a label or a band to keep track of these things, it only takes me about 5 min everyday. What you do notice is how many of these blogs are around now, and how huge a task it would be to try to stop it. How you would not really want to have to engage in email conversations/debates with a bunch of site writers if you could just send a notice to their service provider.

I also see a lot of people searching for lyrics online and requesting lyrics by email. OK, so you don't get the lyrics even if you are legally downloading from itunes. I know roughly the amount of sales from these legal downloading sites, and the number of people coming to the website for lyrics is way over this number. My feeling is that if you care enough about a song to want to know the lyrics, you probably should be buying the record to get the lyrics in the liner notes. It's that sort of thing that is pissing me off - more and more poeople seem to think the 'promo' mp3 is just a freebie, rather than something that you should try to purchase if you like the song. That shift in mentality by the frequenters of mp3 blogs is the only thing I don't like about mp3 blogs.

marianna (mariannapm), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

I get emails here and there from people who ask me to email them the rest of the songs from the album or send them songs that are no longer up on the site - this really kinda bugs me, cos it seems to totally disregard the simple rules that my site and others like it are following.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:39 (twenty years ago)

jed - :( i don't want to seem disingenuous. but - and honestly - the more precise the message from an artist/label/whatever, the more seriously i'm going to take it. random cease-and-desist to my host? i'll take from that the most obvious interpretation: the band or someone affiliated with them don't want leaks posted of Mr Beast material. but if someone emails me and says "never post mogwai stuff. thanks." then, yeah, not only am i saved some hassle, but the mgmt or whatever can guarantee that i'll cooperate with their wishes, and not some blind stab at what their wishes will be.

it's not about being chummy with the label - it's the hope that at this point we'd be treated as something other than predators/exploiters/pirates, or whatever. i think any disingenuity that you're seeing is from people (like me, obv) who see mp3blogging-without-permission as not-evil, trying to articulate that to people (like you, i guess) who feel that it is. we're not playing naive - we're just genuinely in disagreement.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:46 (twenty years ago)

i don't think it's evil, i guess i'm taking a more extreme viewpoint here than i actually hold. can i ask you one thing, sean? how did you get hold of the advanced Dr Beast? if Rock Action sent it to you i guess that negates my argument and theirs!

jed_ (jed), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

yeah I can see why the BPI/other reps would prefer to avoid liaising with bloggers directly, but otoh when I did try to contact them for advice regarding alternatives/better and more co-operative methods of providing content/material owned by their members in ways not already available or not desirable by people who DO want to reward artists for their efforts (but not by buying a CD), I received no reply. They don't seem interested in/haven't got the time to be establishing a more collaborative relationship between label, artist and audience/fanbase where the latter is able to contribute more in the control/distribution of material rather than just being fed it however only the former party dictates. Just the fact I didn't receive a reply at all was frustrating enough (despite extensive to-ing and fro-ing between them and the server providers).

Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Thursday, 29 December 2005 17:55 (twenty years ago)

Surely the BPI/whoever would be better off "going after" - or making an agreement with - blogspot.com since that's the service most of the mp3 bloggers use, even if the files aren't hosted on their servers?

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Thursday, 29 December 2005 18:12 (twenty years ago)

jed - oh no, they didn't send me the music. i hope i didn't imply that. like i said, they were well in their right to complain. your argument is not negated!

sean gramophone (Sean M), Thursday, 29 December 2005 18:49 (twenty years ago)

I think what Sean is getting at is that he's made it clear on the site that he will remove anything if he is asked, but rather than do that, the agency chose to go around him in a way that would inevitably prove to be somewhat punitive, at least in terms of damaging his relationship with his host server.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Thursday, 29 December 2005 20:44 (twenty years ago)

Going back to what marianna was saying (which is too much stuff to paste, really), I just wanted to add to the conversation the knowledge that one guy who was busted in warez raids by the DOJ several years ago started a consulting firm. Touting his credentials of being an ex-member of one of the top piracy groups in the world, he's hired out by content companies to monitor the piracy activity for their products. His firm will his tell his clients exactly when cracked versions of their product has been released on the internet among other details (obviously I've never hired him, so I don't know the exact specifics).

There's been several other firms starting up with this purpose, and they are certainly making some money. Now, I don't have any idea if the music industry has started to hire any of these people, but I am positively sure that sooner or later they will. And when these firms are hired, where is the most obvious place they will find leaked material on the internet? You don't have to answer that.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 30 December 2005 04:49 (twenty years ago)

And Sean, I apologize for seeming too antagonistic towards you. I really never meant to be, although I did obviously mean to towards Forkslovetofu.

And I don't see the vast majority of MP3 blogs as evil, myself. My whole viewpoint on everything centers around a couple simple facts:
- Life sucks when you're busted for copyright infringement. Real bad.
- Sooner or later it'll happen to MP3 blogs.
- People should know that.
- People should have some minor idea of what the law and the penalties actually are. How many people think that putting up a disclaimer gives them sort of immunity or something? In this thread Forkslovetofu seems to be simultaneously arguing that MP3 blogs, such as yours and his, are obviously illegal -- yet at the same time also perfectly legal because of fair use. Whatever, have fun telling that to a judge some day, folks.

And just to repeat it one more time, I don't mean to be antagonistic in the least. I sincerely hope that none of you have to go through the horrors I have.

Mickey (modestmickey), Friday, 30 December 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

ok, cool, mickey! thanks for tolerating my weirdness.

i liked these conversations much more when i was living in canada and the law wasn't yet so right-wrong clear as it is here in the uk.

sean gramophone (Sean M), Friday, 30 December 2005 19:06 (twenty years ago)

Mickey, quit putting words in my mouth and find a new hobby (horse) already.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Friday, 30 December 2005 19:17 (twenty years ago)

Since when are bloggers owed the courtesy of being contacted directly to remove tracks they've posted, rather than contacting their ISPs? You're breaking the law. Consider yourselves lucky that you only received a request to remove and not a subpoena.

All this bullshit about how the intentions of bloggers are good, and that they generate interest and ultimately boost sales and provide free marketing is irrelevant. If an artist or label wanted you to post these tracks, you'd have explicit permission to do so. If you don't have permission, you're breaking the law. Nobody asked you to market their product for them.

Grow some balls and at least admit that you're breaking the law, and that you don't care about doing so. Try to keep your overdeveloped sense of entitlement in check, and stop making excuses/being disingenuous about what you're really doing when you post other people's music without permission.

Reggie, Saturday, 31 December 2005 04:06 (twenty years ago)

Hi. I'm an mp3 blogger, and I'm breaking the law. I don't even blog in order to promote unknown bands, though I admire people who do. I simply write about music that has an effect on me, even if it's music that everyone else has heard. I am the worst kind of blogging criminal, really.

brittle-lemon (brittle-lemon), Saturday, 31 December 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

LYNCH that fucker.

Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Saturday, 31 December 2005 06:56 (twenty years ago)

Reggie, OTM. That's exactly right. All the feigned outrage, surprise, whatever, over every little incident of "oh my god, [x] just demanded I remove these tracks! how dare they! I thought they understood what we were really about, man. As of today, I no longer support [x]" is really tiring.

That's not to say that MP3 blogging can't be a great, useful thing. The level of dishonesty about the whole enterprise, both from its attackers and its defenders, is terrible.

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 31 December 2005 08:08 (twenty years ago)

*laugh* okay Reggie totally convinced me.

there is SO much projection going on here. i don't see anyone saying they are "owed" the courtesy, that they are "entitled" to anything. i don't see the "oh my god!" that you're citing, Mickey.

any "surprise" you are seeing is more akin to "huh. i was just fined for jaywalking" (to which the appropriate response is obv "YOU DESERVE IT YOU LAWLESS MOTHERFUCKER, JAYWALKING IS BREAKING THE LAW") than "WTF? jaywalking? how dare the police fine me! i thought they understood that jaywalking was cool, man."

sean gramophone (Sean M), Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:07 (twenty years ago)

jaywalking is cool? anyway reggie OTM.

jed_ (jed), Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:16 (twenty years ago)

Mickey, it's not that you're necessarily wrong about anything you're saying, it's that it seems like you're having some conversation with these other mp3 bloggers that you're referencing that we're all not privy to and it's kinda odd.

Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Saturday, 31 December 2005 15:34 (twenty years ago)

Sean, I'm not talking really about anybody in this thread in specific or any incident talked about in this thread, but in general. I've seen this happen on the internet a million times now.

Mickey (modestmickey), Saturday, 31 December 2005 16:38 (twenty years ago)

BREAKING THE LAW

and the utter disingenuousness of it all..

UPDATE: edit: The text and file orginally posted here has been removed from TPP and is no longer shared with a publicly available/viewed website. See the second sentence of UPDATE II and the entirety of UPDATE III. We encourage you to go to the black market or to the private areas of this site or others like it. It's everywhere now. We appreciate all the links and respect we got from the bigger sites (who easily could've never acknowledged or credited us) listed below.

UPDATE II: Big ups and much love/respect to Stereogum, Fluxblog, Tonight Let's Dance and the Boston Phoenix's On The Download. That CnD letter/email/notice should be showing up any second now...

UPDATE III: 8hrs, 30mins. One. Hot. Track.

eightane, Friday, 6 January 2006 04:17 (twenty years ago)

one year passes...

RIP

That one guy that hit it and quit it, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 11:37 (eighteen years ago)

Matt, stop stealing my ideaslunch!
-- David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 19 October 2004 12:53 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Fixed.

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 11:39 (eighteen years ago)

Great blog.

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 11:40 (eighteen years ago)

lol at Derek Borchadt. In general.

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 11:41 (eighteen years ago)

"MOOMINRAP: the finnish hip-hop blog"

why does this not exist

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 12:35 (eighteen years ago)

Derek Borchardt, Harry Redknapp's spiritual forebear

That mong guy that's shit, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 12:49 (eighteen years ago)

Which chairman's wife's face did Arry threaten to piss on? I forget

DJ Mencap, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 12:58 (eighteen years ago)

i want to know what that hot-shit 8:30 track was

retro, you know

maura, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 13:03 (eighteen years ago)

"MOOMINRAP: the finnish hip-hop blog"

why does this not exist

-- Tracer Hand, Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:35 AM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

it does, but it's called Discobelle (Finnish, Swedish, whatever).

Alex in Baltimore, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 14:02 (eighteen years ago)

^^^ Racist

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 12 December 2007 14:48 (eighteen years ago)

two years pass...

so google has started pulling these from blogspot, according to pitchfork. not surprising to me, although it sucks for blogs that just put up one or two songs. I'm not going to bemoan the blogs that offered links to mediafire .rars of entire albums since I'm sure those will just pop up again somewhere else.

akm, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 22:32 (fifteen years ago)

so how did they choose which blogs to shut down? is it just an across the board sweep?

tylerw, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 22:37 (fifteen years ago)

That explains why My Jazz World disappeared last night.

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 10 February 2010 22:48 (fifteen years ago)

so how did they choose which blogs to shut down? is it just an across the board sweep?

I imagine they had some kind of automated thing that scanner their cloud for links to mp3s and archive formats.

They have an automated anti-spam scanner that rakes over their territory, labels blogs spammers and locks out their users for 20 days before deleting them.

I know the latter because they had a false positive mass incident last year and my blog was one of those which was in the sweep. It was corrected fairly rapidly.

However, there's no real appeal process for anything at Google Blogger. Once the hive mind is made up, there's nothing but to lump it.

They recently announced they were terminating their FTP-publishing application to private domains not in their cloud. It's raised a stink but there's no recourse but to either migrate your blog back to Google servers or go elsewhere. Mine was caught up in this and I've already started migrating readers to WordPress.

So if something gets slated for disappearing en masse because of an upper level decision, that's it.

Gorge, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 22:57 (fifteen years ago)

i have one of those blogs on blogger and have long suspected the axe was coming down, so i had it email me an xml backup nightly. which i could just put up somewhere else or host myself if i felt like it.

ian zamboni, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 23:00 (fifteen years ago)

“The people that create and write and update these sites with fervent passion are your biggest customers! We are the ones that buy the $100 box set of material released 10-years ago. We are the ones that collect the 7”s, attend the music festivals, and buy the t-shirts. We LOVE MUSIC and we LOVE Bands and no matter how you think you’re helping your industry by sending the Web Sheriff or DMCA notices you are most certainly not helping. Thanks to everyone who has supported me, offered a hand, or culled older blogs in the last two days! It’s because of your outpouring of appreciation that I won’t wash my hands of this whole music business, and will continue on reinforced in the thought that I am doing something that people appreciate and that what we as music bloggers do is vital to the continued existence of the music we love.” — Patrick from Pop Tarts Suck Toasted, on Blogger’s shutdown of his blog

Kinda dramarama imo. I mean, I frequent mp3 blogs as much as the next guy, but the righteousness of some of them is weird. You ARE giving away something for free, which can be purchased elsewhere.

tylerw, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 23:45 (fifteen years ago)

tylerw otm, but like My Jazz World only ever put up OOP stuff, so I'm bummed it got shut down.

you gone float up with it (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Wednesday, 10 February 2010 23:46 (fifteen years ago)

yeah, totally -- I mean, like I said, I go to these sites too, though i have a weird thing about trying not to illegally download new stuff ... obviously stealing is stealing regardless of the age of the music, but for some reason I feel more OK about downloading an old jazz record as opposed to, i dunno, the new spoon album.

tylerw, Wednesday, 10 February 2010 23:50 (fifteen years ago)

You ARE giving away something for free, which can be purchased elsewhere.

That's the reason they exist -- to provide content where they have none to contribute -- for the sake of an audience. Or if they would choose to do their own content, they'd have to take their chances on the audience being much smaller.

The people that create and write and update these sites with fervent passion are your biggest
customers

This is a bit laughable. Fervent they may really be but it's often in a way in which they're fervently scraping content from others. Which does take some effort and dedication.

Gorge, Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:06 (fifteen years ago)

*knocks on wood, looks at Dashboard*

so far nothing has changed.

sleeve, Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:20 (fifteen years ago)

lmao @ first post itt

vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:21 (fifteen years ago)

I hope they shutdown shit like this:

http://vinylkorps.blogspot.com/

bendy, Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:37 (fifteen years ago)

shutting down primarily live boot and OOP blogs seems pretty dumb IMO

but seems like about 70 percent of "blogs" aren't really curated anyway, just like filesharing via rapidshare

the dong remains the same (M@tt He1ges0n), Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:48 (fifteen years ago)

From Google Blogger's perspective there's no easy way to manage a culling between differences
in what's being pirated, whether it's out of print, live recordings or current. If it's an automated business, which it almost has to be these days, it's entirely dependent on the sensitivity of the programming dictated by a collection of gross measures or rules imposed on page scrapes.

Or maybe they're relying on automation to assemble a list and using eyeballs to make decisions on a top tier of offenders, or some combination of the two.

Gorge, Thursday, 11 February 2010 00:57 (fifteen years ago)

BUT THEY PROMISED THEY WEREN'T EVIL!!!

international slackness (GOTT PUNCH II HAWKWINDZ), Thursday, 11 February 2010 09:38 (fifteen years ago)

i just hope blogs like worldservice (congo music from 50s-70s, almost all out of print) don't get swept up along with all the endless blogs posting leaks of new merge albums.

honestly, i love ian zamboni's blog but he's asking for it, by posting shit like a bunch of love albums that rhino still has in print.

by another name (amateurist), Thursday, 11 February 2010 10:46 (fifteen years ago)

dudes like that SHOULD get shut down imo

you live in a space battle homo cave (sic), Thursday, 11 February 2010 11:07 (fifteen years ago)

the ethics of all this are extremely complex, i think, and usually not handled very well in discussions like this one. is there an article that tackles all this from an ethical--not just a pratical/legal--standpoint.

by another name (amateurist), Thursday, 11 February 2010 11:09 (fifteen years ago)

?

by another name (amateurist), Thursday, 11 February 2010 11:09 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/feb/11/google-deletes-music-blogs

James Mitchell, Thursday, 11 February 2010 13:03 (fifteen years ago)

yeah I'm another not-d/l'ing-if-it's-new-'cause-that's-uncool guy but OOP stuff, I really feel like there's such a compelling case to be made that "sharity" (ugh) bloggers are doing a real service to history. (this despite my weird blanchot schtick about how I think it's kinda awesome when history devours stuff and leaves no traces, etc., about which the less said the better no doubt)

service to history is no small thing imo! like, in metal, during the explosion of new bands in the early eighties, there were TONS of things that got either self-released or came out on little tiny labels and then went through lesser chains of distribution, and probably half the copies got pulped and the rest are God knows where, and it's a valuable service with no downside if that stuff is made freely available. it provides a clearer picture of something. it doesn't take anyone's business away. of course, then somebody does something awesome like the Texas Metal Archives CD and that too goes straight into the "here, take somebody's work for free" bin, so it gets hard to sort out how to deal with things, short of some Official Office Of Blog Allowability which isn't going to happen until I am Tsar.

I feel like a reexamination of public domain w/r/t music is maybe in order but I'm not holding my breath for that

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Thursday, 11 February 2010 13:48 (fifteen years ago)

fuck any dude who pirates a dreamboat gorilla album. stealing from angels imo

99. The Juggalo Teacher (dyao), Thursday, 11 February 2010 13:51 (fifteen years ago)

http://www.blackbeardlives.com/day2/images/films.jpg

meisenfek, Thursday, 11 February 2010 14:00 (fifteen years ago)

"ARR! YE'VE UPLOADED THE WRONG TRACK! OURRRR LEAD SINGLE WAS TRACK #5, Y'SCURRV!"

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Thursday, 11 February 2010 14:02 (fifteen years ago)

IMO spreading the word about DBG is doing god's work; Doug Boatgorilla might think differently.

Mark, Thursday, 11 February 2010 14:20 (fifteen years ago)

yeah, i mean, for instance, Mutant Sounds is seriously a service to humanity, like an intensely great world of music that is pretty much literally not available anywhere else. In some ways I give blogs that actually feel curated a pass too. Like Locust St., which will share officially available stuff sometimes (though it's old stuff), but puts it in a context that doesn't exist anywhere else ...

tylerw, Thursday, 11 February 2010 16:14 (fifteen years ago)

We'd like to inform you that we've received another complaint regarding your blog," begins the cheerful letter received by each of the owners of Pop Tarts, Masala, I Rock Cleveland, To Die By Your Side, It's a Rap and Living Ears. All of these are music-blogs – sites that write about music and post MP3s of what they are discussing. "Upon review of your account, we've noted that your blog has repeatedly violated Blogger's Terms of Service ... [and] we've been forced to remove your blog. Thank you for your understanding."

Here are a couple grafs that show some of the problems and vagaries of the situation. If you do a Blogger-hosted blog you know there's a fink switch for someone to flag you, for any reason, at the top of it.

It's easy to abuse and misuse and I'm sure Blogger gets a steady and large stream of material from it.

If it decides to act on a class of it without exposing each blog to eyeballing, that lessens a huge amount of work.

When I moved my blog to my domain I removed the fink switch because of its potential for misuse. Many people do the same. And there's a way to have it wiped off if you host in the cloud.

Despite the de facto alliance between labels and blogs, not all of the record companies' legal teams have received the message. In a complaint posted to Google Support, Bill Lipold, the owner of I Rock Cleveland, cited four cases in the past year when he had received copyright violation notices for songs he was legally entitled to post. Tracks by Jay Reatard, Nadja, BLK JKS and Spindrift all attracted complaints under the USA's Digital Millennium Copyright Act, even when the respective MP3s were official promo tracks. As a publicist for BLK JKS' label, Secretly Canadian, told Lipold: "Apparently DMCA operate on their own set of odd rules, as they even requested that the BLK JKS' official blog remove the song." It's not clear who "DMCA" is in this case, as the act does not defend itself.

"I assure you that everything I've posted for, let's say, the past two years, has either been provided by a promotional company, came directly from the record label, or came directly from the artist," Lipold wrote to Google.
The company's first official response came only late yesterday, as #Musicblogocide2k10 sped up Twitter's trending charts. "When we receive multiple DMCA complaints about the same blog, and have no indication that the offending content is being used in an authorised manner, we will remove the blog," explained product manager Rick Klau. "[If] this is the result of miscommunication by staff at the record label, or confusion over which MP3s are 'official' ... it is imperative that you file a DMCA counter-claim so we know you have the right to the music in question."

The only way to get Google Blogger's attention is to post in support. There really is no way to contact them directly and that's purposeful. There's a thing called a 'trouble ticket' which you can lodge but it's buried and it's one of those common e-mail forms that people instinctively know are installed only for cosmetic purpose.

Blogger's way of handling trouble is to ignore it until it reaches a certain level of noise on the support forum. There's obviously no transparency and it has always been this way.

The press, in this case, has forced a response from Rick Klau. It was that way when Blogger's FTP publishing started failing. It was largely ignored by Blogger until it had reached a high level of noise and a couple of stories were written about it.

At that point Klau issued a statement and the service improved, but only for awhile. What really was happening is that Blogger was probably undergoing an internal debate on how to end FTP-publishing once and for all. And that entailed coming up with a method which it could push at users to give them a chance to move back to the cloud and a deadline to do it.

So in the Guardian story, it looks like a pretty standard Blogger procedure. They've pushed a method at users who think they've been wronged and maimed by a process they're putting in place. The Guardian notes that most users don't know how to do this or it's obfuscated by Blogger. This is all true. But that has always been the level of support furnished. It's not a design flaw, it's a feature.

Sometimes Blogger appears to harden or accelerate its plans when the press notices and some row erupts, perhaps to get it behind them faster. They may put up a 'support' blog to deal with the subject but that usually means there will be a product manager hanging around just to further explain why they're doing what they're doing in terms of blogs either being a drain on resources -- in the case of FTP publishing -- or perhaps in this case -- how they came to the decision to clean house on terms of service copyright violators because of legal exposure or a drain on resources caused by people always lodging complaints through the fink switch or other means.

Gorge, Thursday, 11 February 2010 17:03 (fifteen years ago)

teal dear

am0n, Thursday, 11 February 2010 17:05 (fifteen years ago)

am0n otm

ksh, Thursday, 11 February 2010 17:13 (fifteen years ago)

Looks like Google's caving:

@masalacism -- Incredible! @Google apologized and put www.masalacism.blogspot.com back on! thanks to @rklau #musicblogocide2k10

Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 February 2010 02:50 (fifteen years ago)

Check this post for details (update #2)

http://buzz.blogger.com/2010/02/quick-note-about-music-blog-removals.html

Ned Raggett, Friday, 12 February 2010 02:59 (fifteen years ago)

Amazin'! And they were using automation with a bug in it!

Gorge, Friday, 12 February 2010 22:04 (fifteen years ago)

http://vimeo.com/9351344

nothingleft (gravydan), Monday, 15 February 2010 18:09 (fifteen years ago)

if you have a blog hosted on somebody else's domain i don't see how you should feel entitled to any control over anything, frankly. download wordpress and set up your own site already.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 15 February 2010 18:17 (fifteen years ago)


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