Creation Records

so i'm about 40% of the way through "My Magpie Eyes Are Hungry For The Prize" and it's pretty bloody exhaustive/ingly inspirational and hilarious.

i can't think of another label in history that's been so chaotically and idiosyncratically run and yet had so much artistic, crital and commercial success.

anyone? any new labels ploughing a similar furrow? transgressive hardly cuts it really...

crital = critical

SubPop maybe?

ah good call! has anyone written a "definitive" (ie probably highly subjective but great) book about subpop?

also, there's another creation book too isn't there? one officially sanctioned by mcgoo?

a friend of mine once walked out on me while we were at a bar because i said i liked creation the band more than anything ever released on creation records (she has "issues"). while this isn't true, i was at least 30% convinced it was at the time. she didn't speak to me for a few days.

Dude you were right!

i actually just finished the book, and am kind of amazed at how sprawling and all-encompassing it managed to be. does anyone have a source for catching up with McGee et al post-Magpie?

the other book was written by paolo hewitt and doesn't have much to recommend it at all, if i recall the reviews of the time correctly.

i mean, he's my myspace friend and everything, but i'd like to know somethings about Poptones, Wichita, and particularly what's happened with the catalog since then. for example, is the Ignition label that reissued/remastered the Ride albums associated with the PR firm in the book?

Ignition is a management company, handled Oasis at the time I believe.

In fact, I think Liam's solo "Carnation" single was on Ignition.

the great Creation "lost opportunity" was Chemical Records, which was to be Creation's hat in the dance music ring...I think that the only Chemical releases (IIRC) were the Area Code 212 and Area Code 313 comps (New York House and Detroit Techno overviews, respectively)...pity...

well, don't forget about Infonet, which brought us the initial Reload and Bandulu material...

ah yeah, Infonet...(how futuristic that word sounded back then!)...

I listened again to Reload's A Collection Of Short Stories the other week, and I can't say that time has been kind to it...(ditto Bandulu...funny how they came off like the "Beastie Boys of techno" in those early photo shoots)...

of course, "Dream Beam" by Hypnotone sounds as good today as it did 17 (gulp) years ago...

shit!...somebody not even born when that tune came out is now legally driving a car!

http://www.live4ever.uk.com/2010/10/new-website-launched-for-upside-down-the-creation-records-story-film/

on bbc4 this friday

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/programmes/schedules/2011/10/28

21:00–22:40
Upside Down: The Creation Story

22:40–23:40
Creation at the BBC

23:40–00:30
Alan McGee - the Man Who Discovered Oasis

21:00–22:40
Upside Down: The Creation Story

Nice one, that'll save me the money I would've spent renting it.

21:00–22:40
Upside Down: The Creation Story

Nice one, that'll save me the money I would've spent renting it.

― wronger than 100 geir posts (MacDara), Saturday, October 22, 2011 5:14 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

Yeah, the very same. Looking forward to actually seeing that.

I hope the night doesn't just concentrate on the 'usual suspects' (Oasis, Jesus And Mary Chain, Primal Scream, My Bloody Valentine) and that Super Furry Animals get at least one or two mentions!

Pahh, you kidding? It'll be a straight 1hr 53 minutes of Oasis.

Still gonna tune in though!

simple joys: revolving paint dream coming out of your tv.

NEEDS MORE TELESCOPES

so, were oasis part of the deeper creation records story? like, used to pal around with JAMC or something? or did they just show up fully formed one day and watch the money come pouring in?

more like fagend of Madchester, pals with Inspirals etc

Pahh, you kidding? It'll be a straight 1hr 53 minutes of Oasis.

― kelpolaris, Saturday, 22 October 2011 21:58 (6 days ago)

almost an hour in and no oasis (except talking head noel)

or did they just show up fully formed one day and watch the money come pouring in?

― rustic italian flatbread, Friday, 28 October 2011 20:47 (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

That description pretty much covers it.

so 68 mins then

Have they mentioned that bloke who used to hang out around here?

Got this taped tonight. So, is it any good? (I want lots of 89/90 Ride etc.)

xpost no I don't think so.

Maybe the "at the BBC" show, maybe.

No M0mus. Nowhere enough Telescopes ;_;

Nice to see that Upside Down documentary wasn't "all about Oasis", and that the Super Furry Animals got a mention right at the end (as they should, since they were probably McGee's last great signing to the label). But I don't think it told the "full story" about the demise of Creation, y'know... absolutely nothing about 'Be Here Now', or the reaction to Kevin Rowland's 'My Beauty', or Mishka... which was surely one of McGee's great follies and came right at the tail end of the Creation "story"...

And my god, is 'Imperial' a lovely track. Love early Primals.

The only time I saw them live was around this time.

Good grief, Mishka's still around.

http://mishka.com/

xpost:

I'm more than bit jealous! I love 'Screamadelica'/'XTRMNTR' (which I noticed Bobby G seemed really pissed off about, re: the marketing/promo due to Creation closing!), but their early stuff is very very underrated IMO, some truly wonderful songs there.

Here's a thing, I've never heard "Feed me with your kiss" until now!

Ah, now the Primals on TOTP with "Loaded"

At the time, they looked weird. Now it's the standard look for a 'fill-in' band backing the contestants on X-Factor "brit-pop" week.

Good grief, Mishka's still around.

http://mishka.com/

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 28, 2011 9:56 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Christ! Who would've thought!? I remember reading the news of Mishka being signed to Creation in the music press, and I just remember thinking "well, he doesn't seem like a Creation artist"... it seemed like the latest in a line of things which gave the impression that McGee was losing his touch and the label were 'losing it'... 'Be Here Now' flopping was one, the rumours that 'My Beauty' had sold a pitiful amount of copies (and of course who could forget the cover?)...

I think Dave Gahan learned a thing or two from Bobby Gillespies moves 'back in the day'!

Well they did tour together and all in 1993. But Dave had his routine down WELL before then.

1994, actually, but anyway.

Mishka, like Sugar, were amongst a bunch of acts that weren't 'defined' at all by being on Creation, so no great surprise *he*'s still going.

Y'know, watching Ride now... and it's amazing to think Andy Bell ended up forming 'Hurricane #1' and then ended up playing bass for Oasis... and you listen to this and think "why!? why did you want to go in that direction!?"... I mean, I appreciate that the times they were a'changing and all that, but fuck!!

"My Beauty" supposedly only sold 400 "on all formats", so I must have the rarest minidisc release of all time.

Except the story is obviously bol.

OMG:

Mishka (born Alexander Mishka Frith,[1] 1974) is an internationally known reggae artist from Bermuda. He released his first self-titled album Mishka in 1999 and had a hit single in the UK with "Give You All The Love". He is currently signed to Matthew McConaughey's record label, j.k. livin, and is touring in support of his latest album, Talk About.

Well they did tour together and all in 1993. But Dave had his routine down WELL before then.

― Ned Raggett, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:06 PM (56 seconds ago) Bookmark

Ah, y'see I've never seen any footage of the World Violation tour... but there seems to me to be a hell of a difference between his 101/Music For The Masses stage presence and that on Devotional(!). Allegedly the Primals were more than a bit taken aback by Depeche's level of partying on that tour... I'm really not surprised that tour nearly broke them.

The saddest thing about the 'stopping' of Creation was seeing the upcoming schedule of albums, now documented on a number of Creation fan websites as "CRE 1562 - Dexys Midnight Runners album - unreleased".

AlMac talks about bowing out with dignity, but I have absolutely no doubt the whole thing happened purely due to Sony interference and Macg had absolutely no control over timing or situation. I don't blame him at all though.

Ah Tony McCarrol, bless him. Don't he look a lot like Lol "lol" Tolhurst?

'Be Here Now' flopping

It did what now

Funny, in those days Liam looked like a college student!

Mishka, like Sugar, were amongst a bunch of acts that weren't 'defined' at all by being on Creation, so no great surprise *he*'s still going.

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:07 PM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark

I suppose... but you could see what McGee saw in Sugar... I just couldn't see what he saw in Mishka at all!

My Beauty" supposedly only sold 400 "on all formats", so I must have the rarest minidisc release of all time.

Except the story is obviously bol.

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:08 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Yeah, I thought it was bollocks and just a bit of a vicious rumour. Hasn't McGee attempted to debunk that myth several times over? I do remember Kevin Rowland wrote a couple of barbed letters to the music press at the time defending his choice of attire: "It's a MAN'S dress!" etc.

No, that was David Bowie.

Get down!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN-vcyNWDjM

I saw him at Reading Festival around this time.

Actually, he went down alright for the most part. A few things were thrown, but only 'at first', and ending with "You'll never walk alone" appealed to the 'football lads' crowd enough...

Be Here Now' flopping

It did what now

― henri grenouille (Frogman Henry), Friday, October 28, 2011 10:14 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

I mean, of course it broke records for sales on its first day of release and was one of the most eagerly awaited records of the '90s in the UK... but upon getting home and playing the album through the first time, it was a crushing disappointment. And a crushing disappointment that you got the sense you were sharing with pretty much a large percentage of the rest of the country. Oasis still sold albums afterwards of course, but they did lose a large percentage of their audience with that record, who moved onto other things.. and there were a hell of a lot of decent records released in '97 that one could listen to instead.

Ah, the Furries!

Well, the 'death of indie' would have happened anyway, and it (be here now) did not 'hasten' it or anything like it.

Ah Tony McCarrol, bless him. Don't he look a lot like Lol "lol" Tolhurst?

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:13 PM (6 minutes ago) Bookmark

Hahaha... he does! How wonderful!

mm, just thought it needed clarification. obviously it was a piece of shit and everyone who heard it knew that but it sold 8 mill units worldwide by the end of 1997 according to wiki so, you know, not a flop.

Noel always had a knack for a tune and some well put-together lines.

But, the majority of Oasis albums had their fair share of filler, they were called 'verses'

Well, the 'death of indie' would have happened anyway, and it (be here now) did not 'hasten' it or anything like it.

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:20 PM (9 seconds ago) Bookmark

Of course it would have done, and of course 'Be Here Now' didn't hasten it... but it was one of the first moments that I remember thinking "McGee, you could have said 'no'." - but at the same time I get the impression he would have never had it in him to do that, not to mention Sony would have wanted that album no matter what it was.

I guess we're not getting "Hairstyle of the devil" then.

mm, just thought it needed clarification. obviously it was a piece of shit and everyone who heard it knew that but it sold 8 mill units worldwide by the end of 1997 according to wiki so, you know, not a flop.

― henri grenouille (Frogman Henry), Friday, October 28, 2011 10:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

There's different kinds of flops. Obviously 'Be Here Now' wasn't a commercial flop, but it was much more than a flop on so many other levels.

xpost well, all those years of punk bands (and bands before and after, to be fair), being all "We want to make records free of Record Company Interference", and yet because the peopple running this label were a 'bit cooler', it's OK for AlMug to 'step in'?

Noel always had a knack for a tune and some well put-together lines.

But, the majority of Oasis albums had their fair share of filler, they were called 'verses'

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:22 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark

I liked those first two Oasis albums. This track playing now pretty much defines the word 'filler'. All seven fucking useless minutes of it.

xxp
blowing my mind tbh

See, Noel could not write a 1min59 song to save his bacon!

3 Colours Red got onto totp? Who Knew!

If they jumped around a bit more, they could have been Busted!

(That's a compliment, btw)

well, all those years of punk bands (and bands before and after, to be fair), being all "We want to make records free of Record Company Interference", and yet because the peopple running this label were a 'bit cooler', it's OK for AlMug to 'step in'?

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:25 PM (17 seconds ago) Bookmark

Well, Bobby G did say during the documentary that he found McGee invaluable as an adviser, and the impression that I got from reading McGee's thoughts on 'Be Here Now' is that he wasn't particularly keen on what they were doing. As it turned out, neither was anyone else - including Noel Gallagher himself about a year after the album came out!

Apparently half of 3 Colours Red became these guys:

http://www.myspace.com/bassknives

Ugh ugh ugh @ 3CR

See, Noel could not write a 1min59 song to save his bacon!

― Mark G, Friday, October 28, 2011 10:25 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

Ah, now that I can agree with. Even on the first couple of albums the tracks go on maybe a bit longer than they should... but he took it to an extreme on 'Be Here Now', with songs that were nowhere near as good!

AlanM didn't "like" Loveless or "Wake Up"

So, that's the influential album, and Creation's first number one hit sorted then.

Nice to see Shields and McGee acknowledging their internal flaws at the time of Loveless. Otherwise I just hate all these Friday night ads for good honest music.

Be here Now got written out of history, that ws good.

But he did 'like' Oasis.

(Actually, just checked, Oasis got Creation's first number one. Then again, they were 'leased' to Cre, so maybe not)

In the case of "Wake Up", apparently Boo Radleys made it as a joke. Still by far their best work though (but might have been disappointing to those who were used to them being more of a shoegazing act)

I still think the entirety of their 'Giant Steps' album is their best work. There are moments on that that one could call a bit shoegaze-y, like 'Run My Way Runway' (which is awesome, IMO), but I don't consider it a shoegaze album at all.

I adore their noisy buzzy, early single "Kaleidoscope" - my favourite Boos song.

I've quite fond of early Boos as well, some great stuff on 'Ichabod & I' and 'Everything's Alright Forever'.

*I'm

oh god, yeah. I've not even seen this programme and the memories are flooding back. I have so much love for this Creation stuff I grew up with. I have very fond memories of seeing the MBV, Ride & Slowdive cardboard CD covers in a strange little plastic temporary shop in the Quiggins centre in Liverpool. That place was awesome.

They're definitely one of two record labels which helped to shape my tastes. The other was Mute!

I still think the entirety of their 'Giant Steps' album is their best work. There are moments on that that one could call a bit shoegaze-y, like 'Run My Way Runway' (which is awesome, IMO), but I don't consider it a shoegaze album at all.

I would say "Everything's Alright Forever" was a shoegazing album. "Giant Steps" was sorta transitional towards the rest of their output. "Giant Steps" was.... hard to categorize..... while the last one I guess had a bit of the Britpop feel of "Wake Up" to it against.

again

"C'mon kids" was hard to categorize, I mean.

Yeah, 'C'mon Kids' is a bit of a weird one. There were some interesting tracks on 'Wake Up!' to go alongside the chirpy Britpoppiness of the singles, I thought. 'C'mon Kids' is strange because sometimes it does come across as a bit of a reaction against the previous record, yet sometimes it seems like Martin Carr/Sice wants to be in Oasis (as on the title track and parts of 'Ride The Tiger'). It's like this crazy mixed bag of shoegaze elements, psychedelic elements, a tiny bit of dub... all mashed together with elements of Oasis.

Ultimately it's one of those records that I admire rather than love - I'm pleased that the band made it and made an attempt to try some new things (for them) out, and I listen to parts of it and think 'wow, that's a bit of a neat idea, I like that' - but I'd never dig it out to listen to for enjoyment.

may i ask to what extent MBV is talked of? i just sorta imagine them getting a brief "they thought they were the irish reaction to husker du... TEHY WERE WRONG" and then cue creation's demise

My Bloody Valentine are talked about quite favourably, actually. McGee acknowledges he didn't know what he had when he signed them, and he also mentions that even though 'Loveless' cost a great deal of money to make, it was far more likelier that a combination of amount of drugs that were being done at the label and the general carelessness of McGee/Dick Green/Creation was far more likely a factor in the labels financial problems than My Bloody Valentine making 'Loveless'.

such a shame lawrence was ill during the filming of this

i still thing that the Boo Radleys are the best band ever, EVER.

most say that Giants Steps is the best album but i still (until my death bed) will say Kingsize is their very best. C'mon Kids is absolutely brilliant, loud, fucked up and simmering with life. "Fortunate Sons" still might be their best song.

"Fortunate Sons" "Four Saints"

i still want to add The Boo Radleys to the ILM ballot poll but haven't got the nerve to add it. plus i have my hands full with New Order.

"To be honest I am now seriously thinking about restarting Creation, or maybe Re-Creation if I can find the right people at a label to work with. Music needs a kick in the balls, and I have got the music buzz back.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

http://www.flysoftware.com/images/products/html_plug-ins/html_radio_button.png God
http://www.globalintake.com/images/radio_button_off.pngAlan McGee
http://www.globalintake.com/images/radio_button_off.pngMorrissey

i reckon he just heard that flats record

Yeah, I have mixed feelings about that. Of course, the reputation of a label is only as good as the acts they sign, and what chances does McGee have these days of finding bands of the same calibre as what he signed during Creation's glory days? If he's able to pull it off, then fair play, but I'm extremely skeptical. Especially since he was talking about being bored of, and wanting to have nothing to do with music in recent years.

"I'm so bored with music, I want nothing to do with it."

(checks bank balance)

"I have the music buzz back! Time to kickstart the ol' label."

To be fair, you can totally go through a phase of being bored by music and then regain your passion. I wouldn't necessarily think that he was lying. It's just... the shit he signed during Creation's late period, man, what greater depths will he sink to next? I don't believe that with restored passion will come a restoration of taste.

Oh, yeah, I was just being a little snarky about the process.

the shit he signed during Creation's late period, man, what greater depths will he sink to next?

answer : poptones.

It feels like McGee's acumen at discovering bands is a bit overstated. How many of the successful Creation acts would you say McGee actually "discovered"? There's Primal Scream, JAMC (who were both friends from way back), Ride and Oasis. The other acts with significant success or influence on the label had previously been involved with other labels and would likely have had a career with or without him. I'm thinking SFA, Boo Radleys, Teenage Fanclub, MBV, The Pastels, Felt, and so on. The real value of Creation is not that they released Oasis records but that they helped provide a platform for dozens of other bands who went nowhere but made some cool records and maybe played some good gigs for a year or two.

There must have been a lot of luck involved. Sure, he got in there early with mates: Primal Scream and J&MC. But until Ride started having hits the label was no more successful than some of the other UK Indies. I guess he lucked upon Ride - and some other label WOULD have found them if he hadn't first. That led to the Creation I loved: Slowdive, TFC, Boos, Swervedriver arguably all signed because of what he did with Ride, getting them in the charts. Oasis was a different era as far as I'm concerned and again - some other label would have signed them - he discovered them only in as much as he was there at the time. Liam was a big Ride fan from what I remember. Did he gain his reputation from hearing Drive Blind before anyone else? (kinda LOL - reaching a little here maybe).

I guess maybe House Of Love was the one thing I'm not sure of - they signed how? They had chart hits, didn't they?

Just watched this documentary last night. The thing that really struck me was what a year Creation/McGee had in '91. Loveless, Screamadelica and Bandwagonesque all out at the same time, that's a heck of a hat trick. And the backstory on Screamadelica seemed about what I'd always figured -- band + drugs + Weatherall = months of seemingly useless hedonism suddenly producing this thing nobody expected.

I think McGee said something like, "Just when you'd completely given up on them, suddenly they'd show up in the office with 'Higher Than the Sun.'"

that Screamadelica tour, changed my life and wrote about it somewhere on here...

How did I miss this documentary?

Thanks for posting this, it prompted me to watch it. Wasn't bad! Would have liked more on Loveless, the gestation of which I don't feel has ever been described in enough detail.

So they are putting out an early years box 1983-1985.

First two discs are basically a reissue of the first half of the Creation Soup series - ie. the first 23 singles but this time including Upside Down/Vegetable Man.

Third disc is "rarities". There's no logic behind the choices except 7 of the 14 tracks here are the McGee's own bands. A bit self-serving of McGee especially since some not released on Creation or don't fit the 83-85 era on the box (plus there are other Biff Bang Pow "rarities" included on other discs, jeez). Has two JAMC tracks that have been freely available since day one, most recently on the last reissue of Psychocandy. This disc also includes a reissue of Alive In The Living Room - no biggie since it's mostly a historical document that I think everyone interested will know is practically unlistenable.

Fourth disc is demos - barrel scrapings admittedly. Could be interesting but does anyone need this much X-Men in their lives?

Fifth disc is the best: radio sessions. Bodines, Meat Whiplash, The Loft etc well recorded in nice studios. I WANT THIS.

DISC 1: SINGLES

1. THE LEGEND! – ‘73 In’83
2. THE LEGEND! – You (Chunka Chunka) We’re Glamorous
3. THE LEGEND! – Melt The Guns
4. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – Flowers In The Sky
5. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – In The Afternoon
6. BIFF BANG POW! – Fifty Years Of Fun
7. BIFF BANG POW! – Then When I Scream
8. THE JASMINE MINKS – Think!
9. THE JASMINE MINKS – Work For Nothing
10. THE PASTELS – Something Going On
11. THE PASTELS – Stay With Me Till Morning
12. THE X-MEN – Do The Ghost
13. THE X-MEN – Talk
14. BIFF BANG POW! – There Must Be A Better Life
15. BIFF BANG POW! – The Chocolate Elephant Man
16. THE JASMINE MINKS – Where The Traffic Goes
17. THE JASMINE MINKS – Mr Magic
18. THE LOFT – Why Does The Rain
19. THE LOFT – Like 20. THE LOFT – Winter *
21. THE LEGEND! – The Legend! Destroys The Blues
22. THE LEGEND! – Arrogant Bastards
23. THE X-MEN – Bad Girl
24. THE PASTELS – Million Tears
25. THE PASTELS – Surprise Me
26.THE PASTELS – Baby Honey
* Bonus tracks

DISC 2: SINGLES

1. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Upside Down
2. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Vegetable Man
3. THE LOFT – Up The Hill And Down The Slope
4. THE LOFT – Your Door Shines Like Gold
5. THE LOFT – Lonely Street
6. THE LOFT – Time
7. THE BODINES – God Bless
8. THE BODINES – Paradise
9. PRIMAL SCREAM – All Fall Down
10. PRIMAL SCREAM – It Happens
11. THE JASMINE MINKS – What’s Happening
12. THE JASMINE MINKS – Black & Blue
13. MEAT WHIPLASH- Don’t Slip Up
14. MEAT WHIPLASH – Here It Comes
15. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Singing In Braille
16. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Aunt Nelly
17. FIVE GO DOWN TO THE SEA? – Silk Brain Worm Women
18. THE MOODISTS – Justice And Money Too
19. THE MOODISTS – You’ve Got Your Story
20. THE MOODISTS – Take Us All Home
21. THE PASTELS – I’m Alright With You
22. THE PASTELS – Couldn’t Care Less
23. THE PASTELS – What It’s Worth
24. BIFF BANG POW! – Love And Hate *
25. THE WEATHER PROPHETS – Worm In My Brain *
* Bonus tracks

DISC 3: RARITIES & ALBUM TRACKS

1. THE LAUGHING APPLE – Participate!
2. THE LAUGHING APPLE – Wouldn’t You?
3. THE REVOLVING PAINT DREAM – In The Afternoon (Early Vsn)
4. THE JASMINE MINKS – The Thirty Second Set Up
5. THE JASMINE MINKS – Somers Town
6. BIFF BANG POW! – Fifty Years Of Fun (Almost Live Version)
7. BIFF BANG POW! – Waterbomb!
8. J.C. BROUCHARD with BIFF BANG POW! – Someone Stole My Wheels
9. J.C. BROUCHARD with BIFF BANG POW! – Sunny Days
10. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Upside Down (Demo Version)
11. THE JESUS AND MARY CHAIN – Just Like Honey (Oct 84 Demo)
12. THE BODINES – God Bless (Alternative Version)
13. THE MEMBRANES – I Am Fish Eye
14. THE MEMBRANES – Gift Of Life
ALIVE IN THE LIVING ROOM:

15. THE JASMINE MINKS – Seven And Seven Is
16. THE JUNE BRIDES – I Fall
17. THE LEGEND! – Arrogant Bastards
18. THE THREE JOHNS – A.W.O.L.
19. THE LOFT – Your Door Shines Like Gold
20. THE MEKONS – Rock’n’Roll Shoes
21. THE LEGEND! & HIS SWINGING SOUL SISTERS – Sweet Soul Music
22. THE JASMINE MINKS – Green Fuz
23. ALTERNATIVE TV – Lonely Lenny
BONUS TRACKS

24. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – A Picture Of Dorian Gray (live)
25. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – The Dream Inspires (live) *
26. TELEVISION PERSONALITIES – Family Affair (live)
* * = previously unissued

DISC 4: DEMOS

1. THE JASMINE MINKS – All Fall Down *
2. THE JASMINE MINKS – Work *
3. THE JASMINE MINKS – Second Post *
4. THE LEGEND! – Boredom (Is) *
5. MEAT WHIPLASH – Losing Your Grip *
6. MEAT WHIPLASH – Always Sunday *
7. MEAT WHIPLASH – Walk Away *
8. THE LEGEND! – Victorian Values *
9. THE X-MEN – Home *
10. THE X-MEN – Planet Of The X *
11. THE MOODISTS – The Train From Kansas City *
12. THE MOODISTS – The Day They All Wake Up *
13. THE MOODISTS – I Guess I’m Dumb *
14. THE LEGEND! – Social Protest (By Numbers) *
15. THE JASMINE MINKS – Mr Magic *
16. THE JASMINE MINKS – Friends *
17. THE LEGEND! – Do You Remember *
18. BIFF BANG POW! – Lost Your Dreams (Demo)
19. BIFF BANG POW! – I’m Okay Me (Demo)
20. THE LEGEND! – Picture The Scene *
21. THE X-MEN – A Tryst For Liszt *
22. THE X-MEN – Stone Cold One Note Mind *
23. THE JASMINE MINKS – Choice *
24. THE JASMINE MINKS – Everybody’s Got To Grow Up Sometime *
* = previously unissued

DISC 5: BBC SESSIONS

1. THE X-MEN – The Witch (John Peel 13/9/1984)
2. THE X-MEN – Little Girl (John Peel 13/9/1984)
3. THE X-MEN – Xtramental (John Peel 13/9/1984)
4. THE LOFT – On A Tuesday (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
5. THE LOFT – Skeleton Staircase (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
6. THE LOFT – The Canal And The Big Red Town (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
7. THE LOFT – Lonely Street (Janice Long 9/12/1984)
8. THE MOODISTS – Other Man (John Peel 10/7/85)
9. THE MOODISTS – Bullet Train (John Peel 10/7/85)
10. THE MOODISTS – Take The Red Carpet Out Of Town (John Peel 10/7/85)
11. THE MOODISTS – Justice And Money Too (John Peel 10/7/85)
12. MEAT WHIPLASH – Loss (John Peel 28/10/1985)
13. MEAT WHIPLASH – Walk Away (John Peel 28/10/1985)
14. MEAT WHIPLASH – Eat Me To The Core (John Peel 28/10/1985)
15. MEAT WHIPLASH – She Comes Tomorrow (John Peel 28/10/1985)
16. THE BODINES – Scar Tissue (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
17.THE BODINES – Therese (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
18. THE BODINES – William Shatner (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
19. THE BODINES – The Back Door (Janice Long 13/10/1985)
BONUS TRACKS

20. THE LOFT – Beware (Live)
21. THE LOFT – Wide Open Arms (Live)
22. THE LOFT – Worm In My Brain (Live)
23. THE LOFT – Up The Hill And Down The Slope (Live)

Hmmm, I'll be interested in hearing old Jasmine Minks songs I don't know. My hopes were up that there might be one or two of the "Another Age" demos which I had once on a much loved much missed tape, guess that's a bit late.

Struck as ever thinking about this lot how good the good stuff was and how shitty the shit.

That is very true. And the good stuff has all been reissued so many times now...Like I say, only the radio sessions interest me at this point.

The more I read about this label, the more I'm convinced that it was Dick Green (rather than Alan McGee) who was responsible for a lot of the good stuff that happened on Creation.

I mean, if you wanna see what Creation would have put out if they hadn't folded, all you need to do is combine the Poptones catalogue (McGee's label) with Wichita Recordings (Dick Green's label) and the artists that were on Creation when it folded.

Yes, his track record after Creation was more solid and successful than McGee. Think the whole thing was very collaborative and McGee's importance massively overstated. Joe Foster...apart from being experienced with production, promotion and record labels he also produced most of the good early ones I think. And Ed Ball a bit later.

I think signing Oasis probably led to McGee's importance being overstated, he seemed to hate a lot of the stuff that a lot of people see as Creation's high points.

I mean, didn't McGee once say he would have dropped The Boo Radleys if it wasn't for Dick Green being massively keen on having them on the label?

He did.

A theory: he doesn't have a unique, curious or intuitive musical taste. His favourites are all refered to him by others: Foster, Ball, Bobby Gillespie, the guys from the TV Personalities, the Reid brothers etc. He's always remembering how one of those guys gave him a tape or something and told him it was good. The one exception that comes to mind is Oasis and in that case he was blown away by a version of I Am The Walrus for fuxake.

Of the early "good" ones, most were a friend's band, or a friend of a friend (all the Scottish ones basically) and so the quality control wasn't really there either - just luck.

With the Boo Radleys - I don't think he even knew whether it was good or bad. He thought it sounded noncommercial and was surprised when it hit.

So yeah -McGee was successful on the non-musical side of things. Attitude, scene building, making friends, dishing out drinks, talking to the media etc.

The Boo Radleys were a good deal, they had already recorded "Everything's alright forever" for Rough Trade, but when the label went bust they got custody of the rights (purchased or what, I don't know) and as a band were improving and on the up. So, it made business sense to sign them.

In Paolo Hewitt's Creation book, McGee has Giant Steps as one of his top 12 Creation Records. Maybe he was largely just thinking business-wise because almost all the rest were huge hits.

Interesting theory, Everything.

I was about to say "He signed The Montgolfier Brothers so can't be all bad" but then I have a vague feeling that I've read that this was on his wife's recommendation.

McGee probably included it because it got great reviews at the time, and didn't want to be seen as being the one who didn't like it.

Sounds like running Creation Records was a bit of a stressful time for Green, actually...

Q: It’s been quoted that you kept Creation going through the mid 90’s when Alan was ill, did you enjoy the challenge and do you think it sowed the seeds for you to set up Wichita?

A: I managed to pull a team together and keep it together but was in constant touch with Alan, and only really doing what i had been doing anyway, I dont think it sowed the seeds… nearly put me off for life more like…..

Q: Were you upset when Creation came to an end?

A: Nope

From this interview

So, the "Creaton" box set was mooted in 2002, and now it's here!

Also, funny they've dropped the A side (but not the B side) from the X-men's 2nd single, and dropped Les Zarjaz completely.

Slaughter Joe also missing, which is surprising.

Anyone familiar with Emily?

Thinking of tracking this down: http://www.creation-records.com/emily-release-a-retrospective-album/

Rumor has it Gruff Rhys of SFA fame drummed for them at one point. That's how I was turned on to them. Seems hard to find much information about the group. An old Stylus article made me laugh:

http://stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/shine-on-a-guided-tour-to-creation-records-first-50-singles.htm

[CRE050]
Emily – Irony EP

I’m not sure who Emily was or why they never made another record for Creation or even how many people were in the band or what—it might have only been one guy in fact. But I do know that this four tracker is great folky pop and I’d love to hear more. Layers and layers of earnest acoustic strums; thoughtful, forlorn lyrics; a slightly quirky male singing; and that intangible something that tells you that this could be exactly the sort of act you would like to follow for the next few years and eventually become one of your favorites. Alas, I have no idea where to find more material, if there even is any—certainly not on Creation. So help me out, Stylus readers—anyone know anything about Emily? Oh, the irony...

I never heard that ep, but for some reason a Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder song comes to mind..

Got a couple of their singles, saw them live one time and got a old fanzine or two with an interview or whatever. They are still revered in that particular corner of the internet that honours the flame of late-80s ethereal guitar pop. TBH I didn't really like them much at the time in comparison with eg. St Christopher who sounded similar. I don't recognise any songs on the retrospective since the songs from Irony aren't on it!. Also I'm sceptical of the Gruff Rhys connection though they are def Welsh. I just don't think the timings work out as Gruff would've been quite a few years younger. OG drummer was named Geoff.

I love Emily a great deal, think I voted for that EP in the recent Creation polls; saw them a couple of times back then (though not until after they had left Creation). Ollie was an absolutely amazing singer and songwriter.

There was a demo of dreamy acoustic folk-pop, bits of which came out on flexis as was often the way back then; some people in fanzine worlds were very excited about them. Those people were generally a bit disappointed with the "Irony" EP, which wasn't the big step forward we maybe expected, not necessarily improvements on the demo versions. I think we were unfair; it sounds really good to me now. I never heard about any Gruff Rhys connection but the drumming on the EP wasn't the very best. They drifted off Creation after that.

Next they turned up on Esurient, the brief but inspirational label run by Kevin Pearce (he's a fellow who's worth being aware of: it's his "Hungry Beat zine you see propped against the Vox amp on the front of "Pass The Paintbrush Honey", he wrote the mod bible "Something Beginning with O" which Heavenly put out, he's been writing brilliant stuff for decades now, partly under his "yr heart out" banner); a 3-track single, "Stumble" came out and they'd moved forward quite a lot, deeper, jazz-inflected, extraordinary drumming (courtesy of a fellow called Gian who I understand recently passed away, I'm sorry to say) and more complex songs. This is one of my favourite records ever. They recorded another single for Esurient, "Merry-Go-Round" but that never emerged, Esurient had run out of steam.

Then the pitched up on a label called Everlasting, in Cambridge with an LP called "Rub Al Khali", looks for all the world like some hippy private press album from an indeterminate point in the 70s or 80s. It was recorded in a barn and was looser and felt more provisional. I think about half of it is untouchably good, the other half I never quite got.

That was it, record-wise. I understand they reconvened from time to time but no more records came out (and no more shows happened to my knowledge) until that comp arrived a few months back with lots of unreleased stuff (I'm led to believe by people who know that they just kept recording for their own enjoyment); Ibought it straight off, though I have all the records and flexis and whatnot. I understand it's not to everybody's taste and for me they never quite hit the heights of "Stumble" (but barely anyone did).

Here's "Stumble", the photos on this youtube videos were taken by my old friend Dan at a show I was at, the show was genuinely amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SS6Mu2p5hbM

(the other sides of this, "Rachel" and "Boxing Day Blues" are there on youtube also and well worth it).

"The Old Stone Bridge" from the demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4rb9hQ5zw&nohtml5=False

The version of "Mad Dogs" from the Creation EP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45L84HogcKs&nohtml5=False

That's probably more information than you wanted, wasn't it? Oh well, you did ask.

xpost yeah, only "The Old Stone Bridge" from Irony is on the comp, and even that in the demo version above. For myself I'd take Emily over St Christopher every time, though I liked St Christopher well enough.

Good info :) They certainly sound better to my aged ears than to my teenage ones. The flexi you posted there of The Old Stone Bridge is the song I'm (and most people?) familiar with, even though compared to other bands in that flexidisc label/fanzine circuit they are way less frantic, punky and scrappy, which is what I was looking for at the time. Course it was all dimininshing returns - should've stuck with these guys.

It's driving my crazy that Oliver's voice is reminding me of someone else from the era and I can't place it! Any ideas?

Not sure, but then I've listened to them enough that he just sounds like himself to me.

Thanks. That is as great a post as I could've asked for.

Wikipedia and an EBay listing are my source for the Gruff connection.

xpost. Got it! I was thinking of Jim Irvin from Furniture, who kinda sound like what Emily might have sounded like with a decent studio and some money.

speaking of, Mark G you need to finish that creation poll.

> The Old Stone Bridge is the song I'm (and most people?) familiar with

Reflect On Rye was on Doing It For The Kids which I guess is most people's exposure to Emily

hi, yeah things have been very busy but I will get back on track next week probably.

Those 'Rub al Khali' tracks are something else. They really did a 180 degree turn, and I think I really like it. I found the Retrospective album last night and mostly enjoyed it. Some of the demos and acoustic songs are pretty rough, and the vocals + drumming don't always shine, but I think I agree with that 2005 Stylus blurb.

I just read that Stylus article and I think I disagree with approx. 80% of it (ie there are maybe 10 of the fifty where my estimation of the record matches his; a good number of those are the things we both dislike.

It's a decent enough attempt, despite his vagueness about a lot of it, but this was 11 years ago. Largely the stuff he praises is predictable - Upside Down, Pastels, Felt, Velocity Girl,etc - where the bands became better known and and the musical tropes are familiar from the 60s bands that influenced them and the subsequent scenes that developed around those bands and songs.

There's also a major "had to be there" factor with the more offbeat releases on Creation, where the reasons for their existence are more obscure from a distance of 3 decades. Just because it subjectively sounds like a bad song does not always mean it was a bad record at the time. There's a few of those here.

Haha I'm probably mostly just grumpy that he doesn't go into the kind of raptures I think the Jasmine Minks deserve! But it's not that he likes stuff that I don't, mostly, it's that what he describes hearing is at some variance to what I hear in a fair few cases PLUS he likes lots of things I don't.

Yeah he's lukewarm on the Jasmine Minks but lauds those Pastels singles which are actually quite lacklustre (Baby Honey notwithstanding). Jasmine Minks are the best of the early bands. But then they are practically the only Creation band from that era that was a proper band - ie. with a stable line-up that rehearsed, had a decent repetoire of songs and did gigs regularly.

Well, the X-Men

Them too. Both the Jasmine Minks and X-Men still doing the occasional gig.

Who's the lady wahoo-ing on "Foxy"? I'm not sure if she makes the track amazing or horrible. I'm still deciding.

According to the sleeve notes she's called Jo Roberts, and "she simply wandered into the studio one day, and the group invited her to add backing vocals." That's all I know.

I also note that (contrary to a previous post of mine up there) Gian played wind instruments and the second drummer was named Nick. I resign.

These first 50 Creation singles are bloody fascinating to me and please someone write a book about them, completely ignoring the later nonsense.

Many thanks for the Emily info. I'd been wondering about that band for years, owing to the likely unfounded, it turns out, Gruff Rhys chatter.

Here is the official line on Gruff:

Mark Williams
‏@MarkW06
@mjqmjqmjq cheers, gruff did play drums but not on any recorded stuff and only for a couple of gigs

Are you ready!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DM8mlZwVQAE13qQ.jpg:large

https://variety.com/2019/film/global/danny-boyle-alan-mcgee-biopic-creation-stories-1203190503/?fbclid=IwAR3r3GQ0xCUGanCMuRoblfmYl68cdWCaojThJyea39G8kBYddFHKWX0vod8

“It’s a story of relentless ambition, mental torment, drugs, bankruptcy, unfathomable wealth, courting politicians and of how one written-off young Glaswegian upstart rose to irrevocably change the face of British culture,” according to the film’s production company...

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/38c561/645/344/0/41/800/467?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2019/03/21/600k-sign-uk-government-petition-calling-to-revoke-article-50-stay-in-eu-1553158383295.jpg

The burning question will be, who plays Rubber Jaw?

Awesome, can't wait. Creation & Mute mean far more to me than Factory ever did.

The production company can use that quote in the promotional material.

fbclid=IwAR3r3GQ0xCUGanCMuRoblfmYl68cdWCaojThJyea39G8kBYddFHKWX0vod8

I am available to provide additional dialogue should the filmmakers require it - particularly in those scenes involving the character of Bobby Gillespie. I also feel that the Old Etonian just out of RADA they pick to play Bobby might need a dialogue coach to help them perfect Bobby's extremely working class accent.

Got excited for a second as I saw the name 'Cavanagh' in there, which could ideally have meant the inclusion of the Terry Bickers curry binge scene but then realised it's to be based on McGee's autobiography. Have long since fantasised about a film of gargantuan length based on My Magpie Eyes.... featuring Lawrence, House Of Love, Baby Amphetamine etc, but all things considered, this will most likely be terrible

https://www.nme.com/news/music/creation-stories-movie-alan-mcgee-irvine-welsh-danny-boyle-oasis-interview-movie-2477425

Given the people involved I think McGee’s book makes sense as the source text, but I have low expectations.

‘My Magpie Eyes...’ is a phenomenal book, I need to re-read it. Could it work as a film? Certainly wouldn’t provide McGee with the same opportunities for myhologising.

Would love to read My Magpie Eyes, but it's always going for silly money. Presumably a reprint will never happen?

xpost I know it's implausible but we're allowed to fantasise. There are so many bizarre stories across the eras in the Cavanagh book but I can't imagine them making it anywhere near a screenplay, let alone not vetoed by McGee. Fully expect it to be dominated by the Scream and Oasis and painting McGee in a flattering light

this will be pure wank

Paul and Jim both firmly OTM in those two posts.

The film would seem a great opportunity to get “the accountants version of the story” (McGee, of course) back in print.

Was watching Upside Down the Creation Records Story on Amazon Prime last night. Throughout, there were interview clips of an old man in a bowler hat who I don't remember being identified onscreen. My guess being that the man was deceased and the interviews were archival and anyone familiar with the label would understand that. Can anyone help me out here?

https://i.imgur.com/q7Hf59H.png

That's BP Fallon

That’s BP Fallon: “ageing Irish DJ, music guru and McGee’s Death Disco co-conspirator (“purple-browed Beep” in T.Rex’s Telegram Sam).”

Thanks all. And he's still alive! Wonder what was up with the old-timey television conceit.

Holy shit, that biopic. What a trainwreck, poor Ewen Bremner carrying the weight of the whole thing, lucky he's a good actor.

It died a death didn’t it?? Literally vanished without trace. I was half tempted to watch it but I feel like those stories have been told a million times.

Guessing it was a tax-dodge thing for somebody(?) Like Status Quo's heist movie.

It was made by Nick Moran, and I feel he had one eye on his mate Dexter.

Problem is, there's really not much of a tale to tell, so it's leavened out with huge amounts of super-real scenes, like Trainspotting and Human Traffic 25+ years too late.

It also makes me crazy how filmmakers who decide to do this kind of movie (esp British ones) can never get a simple scenario like a small gig to look/feel right.

I think 'Control' just about managed it, but the scenes of MBV playing in The Living Room with the crowd (of about 30 people) jumping in the air pumping their fists and rotating 360 degrees while screaming in joy, come the fuck on.

There is a very good recreation of a gig at a 80s shithole uk venue in Nico 1988.

That pre-Smiths Morrissey biopic of a few years ago was particularly bad at this.

sorry to pop in here with an interruption, but that WHAT??

i just watched the trailer and omg how did i miss this????? it looks absolutely, tremendously terrible. i must watch it.

It was a lot better than I expected. Then again, I was expecting very little, but it was mmm passable.

Well, I tried to sorta sum it up

https://theshfl.com/guide/creation-records

i can't find page 2 where you obviously talk at length about revolving paint dream.

Alack.

A lesser-heralded aspect of the collapse of Creation is the whole decade of attempts to make Edward Ball a big star, though I appreciate that if I had a label like that I would probably indulge my friends just as much.

The funny thing is, "Pirate Playlist 66" is one of my favourite albums of all time, whereas I find most of his other albums alright/interesting at best.

Thing about Creation I often think about is how in 2000 when they no longer existed but to release the final singles from XTRMNTR they spun off seemingly utterly uncommercial things like Exterminator and *still* they made the UK Top 40. That's the fanbase era of chartdom in full, gleaming effect.

like Accelerator ahem

Can I just say the best song ever released on Creation by anyone is Love in a Car

I've not heard that LP in forever because i only have it on tape. would buy a CD but the only choice seems to be the 5cd deluxe box which is 4 CDs too many (i must already have 6 copies of Christine and shine on)

I loved Creation's breadth of styles and their onward progression through various styles.

And yet, House of Love, Ride, various others I never saw what the intense love was about.

scrolling through their discography it occurs that the only thing saving them from turning into a complete embarrassment in the second half of the 90s was SFA. not sorry

but after Xtrmntr and Guerrilla my third favourite Creation album is C'mon Kids :(

oh that's up there for me too, don't think of them as late 90s though! and XTRMNTR isn't even 90s lol (i like it too)

cmon kids as best boos album is a great call tbc

nah was just saying C'mon Kids was second half of the 90s!

This thread prompted me to sell The Telescopes Precious Little EP at the record store. A nastier sounding piece of vinyl would be hard to imagine. I got $5 for it though!

House of Love is a total classic, on the other hand.

I can’t think of any record that encapsulates the nightmare of the last 20ish years as well as XTRMNTR.

Right? I discovered it right at the beginning of lockdown, it absolutely hits the right (f-ed up) tones of the times.

C'mon Kids is a masterpiece, one day I will poll it.

Will just need to make sure Dog Latin is around

C'mon Kids is a masterpiece, one day I will poll it.

― Bee OK, Thursday, October 13, 2022 10:46 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

there's a 33 1/3 book inside me about C'mon Kids.

It's a great British Psychedelic album, as good as Piper, Butterfly, Sgt Pepper etc.

Songs about the seaside - check
Creepy Childrens song - check
Guitar Freakouts - check
William Blake reference - check
'pop' songs for 'the kids' - check

xp I'm around!