RS Top 500

well i guess you've got to credit them for some kind of internal honesty there.

now can someone explain to me what exactly the rock n roll era was?

oh yeah, right, of course. "like a rolling stone" was real ... long.

I'd say it ended around the early 80's. At least to these voters.

(it's a list, yuck)
(it's RS, yuck)

...my real question is how exactly did "like a rolling stone" get to be the champion of all rock songs? i realize this is what all the classic texts say, and i realize this is what they teach in rock school, and i realize that it sure was revolutionary and earth-shaking and radical and maybe even anti-rockist to release a six-minute single. but what is so fucking great about that song? why that one and not "subterranean homesick blues"? why that one and not "i want to hold your hand"? why that one and not "sweet home alabama"? why that one and not "you shook me all night long"? why that one and not "superstition"?

this drives me up the wall in about 18 different ways

My guess is it's just the "go fuck yourself" attitude of the song. It was fairly radical at the time to have a song longer than three minutes be a chart-topper too.

Plain and simple, the song had attitude. And that attitude influenced a lot of music that came after it, directly or indirectly. I think LARS (wow, what a coincidence...) is a justified choice.

Again, at least they were upfront about the narrowmindedness of their criteria for this list; you have to respect that.

i don't mean this as a criticism of LARS or anyone who likes it -- it's a great fucking song -- but it's far from my favorite "rock" song, far from my favorite dylan song, and i've never quite understood how it came to assume its unquestioned place on top of the rock heap.

and i can't believe it's simply because it was over three minutes long (i mean, that's worth celebrating in a historical way, but if we're going to start measuring songs by their length, i'm gonna have to start complaining about the underrepresntation of yes, genesis and iron maiden on the RS list. and i really don't want to do that).

and maybe both versions of "blue thunder".

Ah, white people.

Because whenever they do these "Best songs of all time" lists, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is ALWAYS the highest-ranking '90s song. And then there aren't anymore 90s songs for at least ten or twenty spots.

I don't think it's so silly to say that the "rock-and-roll era" had start and end dates, even if the given ones are wrong. It's just like saying "the swing era" -- there are still swing bands even today but they don't have anywhere near the grip on the listening public they did in the 1920s and 30s. I don't think there was any value judgment intended in that.

"More than 200 of the tunes were penned in the swinging sixties, and 144 were written the following decade. The 1980s, known for glam rock and bad fashion, could offer just 55 songs. There were only three songs from the current decade. Eminem's Lose Yourself reached number 166, and the controversial rapper also came in at number 290 with Stan. OutKast's memorable hit from last year, Hey Ya, came in at number 180."

Also: "Spirit in the Sky" is some 100 spaces above "I Feel Love".

I promised myself I wouldn't flip out and get all rage-spaz on this board ever again about anything Rolling Stone ever did, but I guess now's as good a time as any to break that promise.

36. One, U2

162. Nothing Compares 2 U, Sinead O'Connor

169. Losing My Religion, R.E.M.

200. Loser, Beck

256. Paranoid Android, Radiohead

259. Hallelujah, Jeff Buckley

286. Summer Babe, Pavement

331. I Can't Make You Love Me, Bonnie Raitt

346. California Love, Tupac Shakur

353. Tears in Heaven, Eric Clapton

376. Fake Plastic Trees, Radiohead

382. Bitter Sweet Symphony, The Verve

399. Enter Sandman, Metallica

406. I Believe I Can Fly, R. Kelly

407. In Bloom, Nirvana

419. Nuthin' But a 'G' Thang, Dr. Dre

445. Come As You Are, Nirvana

455. All Apologies, Nirvana

475. Sabotage, Beastie Boys

497. Buddy Holly, Weezer

jesus -- how many fucking top XXX lists can these fuckfaces keep shitting out?

-- Mr. Snrub

Yeah Nirvana is honorary classic rock for sure. No song from the 80s in the Top 50. I believe the U2 and Nirvana songs are the only ones in Top 50 after '75.

Haha, wtf?

I mean I guess Clapton used to be an old blues guy and all, but "I Believe I Can Fly?" What a horrible token R. pick.

419 - Dr. Dre - "Nuthin' But A G Thang"
Dre's debut solo single sampled the bass line from Leon Haywood's '75 hit "I Want'a Do Something Freaky to You." Dre on his working methods: "I sit around by myself in the studio at home, push buttons and see what happens."

Didn't know if this was worth a new thread so putting it here. Noticed that RollingStone put up a revised top 500 to reflect the 00s more than the previous top 500. Not a whole lot of changes at the top. Noticed that both The Bends and Kid A were rated higher than OK Computer; I wouldn't think that was the consensus. Also noticed Elvis' The Sun Sessions is now in the top 11.

Anyway, here's the link: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/500-greatest-albums-of-all-time-20120531

Thumbed through this at cvs the other night; the first Arcade Fire album is just inside the top 150.

Actually I tell a lie: it's in @#151.

Oh, so this is its own issue then? I thought it was just some online exclusive.

And because I'm bored to tears, I give you the top ten albums from 2000-2010, according to the new RS 500 list:

Radiohead - Kid A @ 67
Kanye West - Late Registration @ 118
Arcade Fire - Funeral @ 151
The Strokes - Is This It @ 199
Bob Dylan - Modern Times @ 204
Green Day - American Idiot @ 225
Eminem - Marshall Mathers LP @ 244
Jay Z - The Blueprint @ 252
Eminem - The Slim Shady LP @ 275
U2 - All That You Can't Leave Behind @ 280

so what are the major differences between this and 2003/2004 list?

American Idiot? You have got to be kidding me.

I think they re-voted and included 2003-2010 releases. I'm kind of skeptical though. Is there really that many people who think Sgt Pepper is the greatest rock album ever in 2012? I'm fine with the Beatles landing the top spot for various reasons, but that album would seem to be more polarizing.

You missed that Peter Wolf album from 2002 that snuck in the bottom fifty in the old list and somehow (cough, Jann, cough) stuck around.

They claim now that the list was made by working some math magic via combining the old results with the ballots from their "Best of The 2000s" poll.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/best-songs-of-all-time-1224767/

new top 500 songs list, significantly improved on representation of black artists but still a deeply goofy list in typical rs fashion. "royals" at 30 lmao & did the elton john biopic drastically inflate his critical standing or something?

lmao "dynamite" made it there surely can't be anything more embarrassing than that

most 'lol modern rolling stone' pick is harry styles though

I both get the urge to ensure the last ~10-15 years has representation in the top 100 and think it's completely ludicrous that these songs have enough consensus among the RS staff that they're as good as any song ever written.

gtfo with royals

it's especially a problem bc their taste really nosedives across the last two decades, before that it's all very canonical obviously & not that interesting. when it gets more distinctively modern rolling stone and they start throwing in harry styles and "fix you" of all coldplay songs and "dynamite" as the worst possible token pick etc. it's very strange

and even "dancing on my own" is decent but nowhere near as good as this list says it is

"why is the rolling stone website so broken" - a question i have been asking for most of my life

most 'lol modern rolling stone' pick is harry styles though

Yep. Enough already, Rob Sheffield!

I've only got a glancing familiarity with the more recent stuff, so can't judge, but looking at the top 25, it's pleasing that "Waterloo Sunset" came ahead of "Bohemian Rhapsody", despite the fact that there was no terrible recent biopic called Waterloo Sunset.
This list and last year's album list show they've really changed their method from the old "here's your recent favourite at number 495, now be quiet" process.

He finally stopped playing “Teen Spirit” for good — taking his own life on April 5th, 1994.

oof

Waiting for this list to load on my phone makes me want quit the internet. Wtf is embedded in this page?

xp wtf

"royals" at 30 lmao

loooool

"So What" coming in at 492 is pretty funny.

He finally stopped playing “Teen Spirit” for good

It reads better if you imagine George Jones reciting that.

daddy yankee's "gasolina" coming in at #50 is fantastic, justifies the whole thing

"get ur freak on" in the top ten is like. . . i mean, this is a joke, right?

should be higher, true

Do people really still think "Runaway" is Kanye's best song?

did the elton john biopic drastically inflate his critical standing or something?

"Tiny Dancer" is significantly higher than any Elton John song on the 2004 list, but he has fewer songs overall.

ELTON JOHN ⬇️

2004
136. Your Song
242. Rocket Man
347. Candle in the Wind
380. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
387. Tiny Dancer

2021
47. Tiny Dancer
149. Rocket Man
202. Your Song
371. Bennie and the Jets

— John M. Cunningham (@jmcunning) September 15, 2021

The Who's stock seems to have fallen pretty far. Or farther.

Grande released “Thank U, Next” a little more than a year after her concert in Manchester, England, came under attack

It was 18 months later... NBD, I guess, but why fudge the timeline? (It reads like they wanted to write about "No Tears Left to Cry," but it didn't make the list.)

Surprised Schubert didn't make it. So many canonical songs.

“ave maria” ffs

lolz imagining JYP forcing ITZY and TWICE to sit in a room and make them rank Steely Dan and Fleetwood Mac songs pic.twitter.com/CtBWdvVrKH

— Patrick St. Michel (@mbmelodies) September 16, 2021

also why the hell is the voters list presented so terribly

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/500-greatest-songs-voters-list-1225358/

“ave maria” ffs

srsly

Strictly speaking, they have ranked recordings of songs rather than songs themselves.

Fischer-Dieskau robbed

They sort of seem to think they ranked “albums”:

Voters were asked to submit ranked ballots listing their 50 favorite songs of all time. Votes were tabulated, with the highest-ranked album on each list receiving 300 points, the second highest 290 points, and so on down to 44 points for number 50. More than 4,000 albums received at least one vote.

A text search reveals that those words are just left over from last year's album poll. I wouldn't want Rolling Stone to try too hard to correct the boilerplate text from an article published 12 months ago, that kind of fussy attention to detail is what killed rock music.

Bob Dylan: From 12 songs to 7, and tumbled from the #1 spot. The new list is the better one.

they should've just published Greg Dulli's list

Sadly, they seem to have removed that wonderful sentence from the “Smells Like Teen Spirit” blurb (I’ve seen ppl clowning on it, with screenshots, so Twitter has proof it existed).

Are the individual ballots available somewhere?

I love seeing the writing credits for these songs. Had no idea "Flava In Ya Ear" incorporated a Carpenters sample. (At least, I assume it does, given the Paul Williams/Roger Nichols credit.)

As is usually the case with critics "all-time" polls, you can see the stratification by different levels of popularity in the more recent material vs the older material. More recent songs predominantly come from the "semi-popular" strata where most critical darlings reside, whereas older songs have more of a barbell distribution of very popular stuff and very obscure stuff. Over time people's antipathy to the most recent very popular songs (whether due the taint of association with their current fanbase or simply overexposure) will fade and the cream of the mega-popular songs will receive their critical due. Likewise over time, some obscure tracks from today that prove influential or ahead of their time will become more widely known and appreciated. But as of right now, the fanbase of these songs is too small and splintered to place them in a poll of this type.

How dare you not poll this: 50 Best Songs of All Time According to Rolling Stone's BRAND NEW, 100% Revamped Top 500

Sadly, they seem to have removed that wonderful sentence from the “Smells Like Teen Spirit” blurb (I’ve seen ppl clowning on it, with screenshots, so Twitter has proof it existed).

It's in the 2004 blurb also. Many of these blurbs seem to be edits of the older ones.

Wait, what is that exactly?

what the fuck pic.twitter.com/mge9t057y2

— bring on the dancing horses (@inthefade) September 15, 2021

The only song I was surprised to see on the list (of the songs I'm familiar with) was "Radiation Vibe."

With respect to Adam S. (R.I.P.), it's a catchy chorus in search of a song; and I didn't think it had the cultural cache to end up as a consensus pick on a list like this. I thought it was just sort of a random mid-'90s CMJ sampler track that sounded cool for a spin or two at the time.

Wasn't "Radiation Vibe" by the other FoW guy?

Looks like they're both credited

According to the list here: Whatever happened to Fountains of Wayne? (c/d?), "Radiation Vibe" was a Chris song, although they shared credits ala Lennon/McCartney.

I remember seeing that and feeling embarrassed because I'd just posted the RV video on FB as a tribute to Schlesinger.

The chorus of radiation vibe is better than 95% of the songs that exist in the world though.

Re: the new blood on the list, the bad songs make me scoff at list-making in a familiar way ("what kind of lunkheads would consider '7 Nation Army' even the best White Stripes song?"), but the good songs on the list really make me question the whole concept of a canon.

I mean, I do love "Dancing On My Own". It's amazing. But if pressed to list the best songs ever, I'd never list that one. But then I thought, why not? what actually makes "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" a better song? Is it just because more boomers have already sentimentalized it? Surely if that was on a best-of list in 1974, that would have been a joke. So in a way, their effort to keep the list fresh really just drives home the pointlessness of the whole exercise.

Also: Runaway is the best Kanye song to people who don't really like Kanye (like myself)

there's a former RS staffer who supervised at least one list for the mag that I know of, in 2016, who is participating on two of the threads re: this revised 500 songs list, so perhaps he can comment on the following if he feels like it… I wrote I think four or five entries for the 2004 list, and I can more or less ID the ones that have made it to this version… and yet I don't see why RS bothers with presenting the bylines of everyone whose contributions have survived… at least in my experience, the entries I was assigned were published with very little resemblance to what I filed, and so while I probly was one of the shittiest writers to be involved at that time and possibly deserved to have my shit rewritten, I doubt very much that I was unique in that regard… over the years I did some front of book shit that was also similarly rewritten, to the point where I was like "my name really shouldn't be credited for this," but these were still clips that would have been useful… but I don't see what the point is in crediting writers, whether for 2004 or for 2021, when every single entry is pounded into the dull house style (except for Rob Sheffield, who is allowed his tics)…

"what kind of lunkheads would consider '7 Nation Army' even the best White Stripes song?"

Good lyric.

Are the individual ballots available somewhere?

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, September 16, 2021 9:50 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

A few voters have posted theirs:

my ballot :) pic.twitter.com/SmmQzUK0pi

— brittany spanos (@ohheybrittany) September 15, 2021

the top of my Rolling Stone ballot. a few of these made the big list, including "Adore" & "Nightswimming," which are so spiritually linked for me https://t.co/SFynW5kvS0 pic.twitter.com/gl7KcrmNY1

— rob sheffield (@robsheff) September 15, 2021

I was determined more women, POC and queer folks were included in the new @RollingStone list. So here's my ballot #RS500Songs I think it worked? https://t.co/oNh0cd5YaB pic.twitter.com/Tq0JTZ8eeV

— Jerry Portwood (@jerryportwood) September 16, 2021

I voted in the Rolling Stone 500 Songs poll. Here’s my ballot. You probably haven’t heard No. 6 but you can listen to it at this link, it rules: https://t.co/UxCDeBhCrV pic.twitter.com/9dcIqrKk8P

— Jody Rosen (@jodyrosen) September 16, 2021

i forgot to vote

I think there’s a disconnect between Voters were asked to submit ranked ballots listing their 50 favorite songs of all time and The 500 Greatest Songs of All Time

Those aren’t the same thing (“favorite” is actually more interesting)

My ballot.

@Alfred - I was disappointed there wasn't a single country song in the top 50 but looking at your ballot I'm thinking there's simply less consensus in the genre. I would have liked to see "Walking After Midnight" or "Poncho & Lefty." Or yeah, "Kerosene" or "Springsteen."

and if younger contributors even included country on theirs

pancho & lefty snuck in at #497 or thereabouts

Cool list Alfred. You choose the correct greatest Kanye song.

Also the correct Bowie song.

i find it frustrating that 'ahistorical preference for contemporary favs' is conflated with 'diversity'

like that robyn song ... come on. its basically a house song but the only chicago house song is marshall jefferson on the whole list?

I agree that I'd trade Robyn so long as I could slot "Can You Feel It" right there in slot #20.

Whoa hold on. Maybe keep the Robyn song and instead demand the inclusion of more people with a house/techno background in the voting team.

We also got Daft Punk in the list! Oh wait it’s fucking “get lucky”.

LOL, the last version of the list including "One More Time" as the DP song was one of the unequivocal arguments in that version's superiority.

refuse to believe that enough people voted for "royals" for it to rank that high, gotta be fudged

"So What" coming in at 492 is pretty funny.

― jmm, Wednesday, September 15, 2021 11:29 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

thought this was about the p!nk song, which would've been a better choice than royals

chris & i were arguing recently bc i was trying to explain in our micro-generational break how big a deal snoop dogg was to me

but its not about insisting that snoop dogg should be high on the list -- everyone sees criticism of the list as being essentially 'stan wars' which is not my point. its abt recognizing that snoop dogg is represenatative of a lineage and tradition that's marginalized by the historical state of the list, so as a writer i become intrigued by say slick rick since he influenced my favorite rapper and would like to see that aspect of the tradition of popular music represented, so slick rick being on the list (even tho I didnt personally experience it) becomes importan to me. and my perspective is of course not the only one, nor should it be (nb i did not contribute to this list this is rhetorical example); thus among many reasons why a diverse range of voices should be on the list, highlighting not just the underrated present but lost histories, lineages, the connections between past and future

now if you have people who came up on sarah machlachlan or nas or anita baker or throbbing gristle or lee scratch perry or whoever ... this entire lineage, tradition, way of talking is erased so that we can make sure ppl's personal stan favs from the last few years are on the list? a genuinely diverse voting bloc shouldn't just underline that kids today thought MIA and Azealia Banks were cool, it should underline and highlight whole traditions and communities that were devalued by the historic hegemony reproduced by lists like this

this is why the gasolina inclusion was a moment where i was like, hell yea, regardless of my personal feelings on the song it feels like a recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented

otm, and uh, as one of the few Hispanic people on ILX, "Gasolina"'s inclusion is fucking great.

agreed about gasolina, stone cold classic.

i didn’t see if there was any other reggaeton on there, but would be cool if don omar’s bandoleros” made it

Speaking for myself and my ballot, I quite consciously chose 50 of my favorite songs that it would be cool for RS to endorse. I wish we'd been able to peek at each other's ballots because, I dunno, maybe seeing Noel or Sylvester or Anita Baker on each other's ballots might've inspired people to stan for the marginal shit of which individual tastes are made and is hell on lists like this which strive for being markers of a historical moment but end up looking like tombstones.

i probably wouldn't have minded "dancing on my own" if it had showed up at like, 200+ because it's a good song, established 10s critical favourite, etc., but it's just absurd at 30, no way is it the best or most important synth-pop/house-pop song of all time

It’s at *20

oh yeah it's "royals" that was at 30, pretty depressing if that's supposed to be the best big chart hit of the 2010s

I think we discussed this before elsewhere, but I really think that the best way to make a better list would be to split it into idk 10 specialized top 50 lists instead of a gral top 500. That way you can have say journalists and artists from a more specialized background - like, let’s say hip hop - vote on solely what they consider the greatest “50 hip hop songs all time”.

According to this list it’s

1. Public Enemy - fight the power
2. Missy Elliot - get yr freak on
3. Kanye West - Runaway

I’ll take a wild guess and say that if you ask hip hop artists or writers focused on hip hop for their top 50 hip hop songs of all time… these wouldn’t be at the top.

This ain’t the Complex era anymore where the strategy is to post a list every day

i have difficulty believing some of the songs on the list truly received any votes

I don’t mean to post a list a day. I still think of it as a huge, single “the greatest 500 songs of all time” list. It’s only divided into 10 or idk 5 huge lists with a more specialized voting panel that would give everyone a much more agreeable list… particularly when it comes to songs from genres outside of a rock scope. I know it’s Rolling Stone and you can’t really remove that rock scope, but why even pretend like it’s something more ambitious when most results outside of a rock angle are very disagreeable.

I mean… fucking “get lucky” being the only Daft Punk song in here makes me think that most people voting for it don’t really listen to Daft Punk… or house… or even any disco or funk… I think I prefer not having them represented at all and make space for idk “Le Freak” which didn’t make the cut.

The ’60s girl groups picks are generally the normie “songs everyone knows,” but guess that’s what you get with a list like this (not sure why they needed to mention that Cher sang backup in multiple blurbs, but ok).

Like let’s say you have 8 groups of people voting for specific genres and subgenres:

Top 100 classic rock / indie rock / alternative rock
Top 50 metal / punk
Top 50 hip hop/rap/reggaeton/trap
Top 50 soul / rnb / reggae / dub
Top 50 disco / funk
Top 50 folk / country / jazz / blues
Top 50 house / techno / electronica
Top 50 pop / indie pop / indietronica / edm

Then after you have those 8 lists you do a massive 500 list by score… if the highest voted song from the hip hop list has idk 80 points and that makes it overall the top 12 song then so be it.

Those are not the 8 categories I’d say should be the definite ones, of course they should be paired and arranged more carefully. It’s just a general idea.

That is, if they truly want a more concise list with a wider representation of genres and expertise behind it. I don’t think you get the full picture if you ask a white indie rocker from the 80’s what he thinks are the best hip hop songs of all time or a techno producer what he thinks are the best punk rock singles of all time. Those make for interesting individual lists but for a very unrepresentative global list.

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

Hell you can even give 50% of the list a rock-adjacent restriction and the remaining 250 in whichever subsets of genres and subgenres you want and 100% guaranteed you end up with a more focused and agreeable general list.

can't believe Rolling Stone's 500 Best Songs of All Time list lacks statistical rigour

Yeah but wouldn't theoretically a techno producer's ballot have a lot of techno on it, and a white indie '80s rocker's ballot have a lot of white indie '80s rock?

― i carry the torch for disco inauthenticity (Eric H.)

In theory yes but the voting was not restricted in any way and if you look at some of the individual ballots upthread you’ll see that the assignment encourages voters to choose their favorite songs of all time rather than what they think should be the most representative ones in any given genre.

I think a little more focus would help. If you have someone voting for idk 4 hip hop songs, but struggles to think of his/hers/their list of 50 best hip hop songs of all time… is that the voice of someone who really loves hip hop and that should be voting for hip hop at all? Not pointing any fingers, maybe several voters are indeed heavy hip hop fans, just saying that having more focus on their core tastes or expertise would make a more interesting or agreeable list.

For me the electronica or electronic adjacent picks on the list are terrible and pretty much inexistent. Even “electronic” artists with a connection to rock that most RS readers would agree deserve a spot like say; Aphex Twin, Brian Eno, Chemical Brothers, Bjork, Massive Attack, Portishead, Tricky are completely missing.

Yeah you can’t please them all but… “get lucky”!? For real? That’s the one? Lol

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

I’ ll take the worse song on Homogenic than whatever is being pushed as electronic pop in this list.

Moka, you … do… know the internet economy is based on clicks and social engagement, right

Like a big goofy list is going to get people talking/clicking more than some baroque labyrinth of genre exercises

Wait, sorry, I see you are petitioning for ONE list

I know I know… but I have a right to dream!

People will still click and discuss both the bad and good list decisions, though.

Yeah… sucks that english is not my first language since I tend to overexplain without making myself fully clear.

Let’s say you get a group of hip hop experts on board and they get to the 50 greatest hip hop songs of all time. Most of them end up voting for idk let’s say “fight the power”. And then most of the rock board decided that “like a rolling stone” is the most voted song. And then the soul/rnb experts went for “respect”… maybe you do end up with the same top 10 than what we got. Who knows?

Or maybe the rock experts can’t make up their mind and the top 20 is filled consensus metal and rap picks.

or maybe we'll die in a fire

Lol lots of what ifs. Anyhow, I’ll stop with that, it’s obviously not going to happen that way ever and it’s a good lost for what it is.

I always like looking at individual ballots in these big efforts. That’s where you find the real good stuff. Hope they included them somehow or made a separate article with them like (I think?) pitchfork does.

*good list for what it is

I look at some of the individual ballots above and they keep surprising me and feeling excited in an “oh yes! That’s a really cool pick for greatest song ever” in more ways than the top 500 does.

The top 500 does have several songs in there which are undeniable classics and some surprises. I particularly love that I’m starting to see finally a latin influence in there with Celia Cruz, Jorge Ben, Selena, Bad Bunny, Daddy Yankee… it’s small steps but they’re significant in my eyes… I very rarely see that representation, I’m used to only seeing idk Santana in rock dominant lists.

this is why the gasolina inclusion was a moment where i was like, hell yea, regardless of my personal feelings on the song it feels like a recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented

― xheugy eddy (D-40), Friday, September 17, 2021 11:37 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

"recognition of signficant cultural tradition that needs to be represented" --> Yeah right, real representativity here, you'd almost think the US is not insulated.

Moka is right, this list can only elicit an endless list of "why ?"

Björk's got Buñuel syndrome. Too many masterpieces for consensus.

If Bjork mixed good martinis too, she's godhead.

Sorry, wrong thread

Seriously, what's to celebrate in tokenism ? How does Gasolina represent a tradition if the people who voted for this list do not know the first thing about Latin music ? Who in reggaeton needs the acknowledgment or recognition of RS ? To pretend that this has value or meaning is so completely incomprehensible. This list is what it is: 60 years of ongoing biases that are only restated in thinly corrected forms.

― Nabozo

I agree. While it provides surprises having idk 1 reggaeton song, 1 cumbia song, 1 salsa song… at the same time being so eclectic doesn’t work. It doesn’t really provide a full picture and honestly nobody is expecting it. I’d much rather prefer more specialized lists. Because now you have to make space for idk an afropop song in the 400-500 and it’s going to be a very obvious choice. I’d rather have a rock song that rarely gets credit in the lower ranks than the token cumbia song everybody who cares knows already by heart.

Tokenism isn’t what I’m celebrating lol my point is the most of the inclusions on this list which I consider a failure make me cringe & that particular example is like the grain of what could be a more interesting list, the moment where you’re like oh this list *could* actually celebrate more of the breadth of music if they were trying.

I thought my whole point in drawing attention to snoop dogg > slick Rick tradition / continuum made it clear this had nothing to do w tokenism …? Gasolina is more than a “token” song anyway but that’s another conversation

Like I’m genuinely mystified how you could read the part directly before the mention of Gasolina as me advocating for tokenism lol

No worries, it was more a point of frustration I was trying to air than an attack against you or your post. As others have said, yourself now included, I just find the list very mediocre, so I took issue at trying to find an angle of analysis to grant it some kind of hidden significance.

i didn’t see if there was any other reggaeton on there, but would be cool if don omar’s bandoleros” made it

― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, September 17, 2021 6:06 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

‘danza kuduro’ imo

lists are funny

Aside from a small handful of choices like "Thank U Next" or maybe "Hotline Bling" or "Thinking About You," the token 2010s entries all feel grossly forced. Whereas more beloved tracks like "Work" or "We Found Love" or "Trap Queen" would probably not seem nearly as awkward. Even "Hard Times" or Charli XCX "Boys" are better choices than most of these. Or any song from Black Messiah.

Wtf are "Savage" or "I Like It" or "Redbone" doing here? Did "WAP" come in at #501?

Not sure if this is mentioned yet but noticing they made room for every prominent musician who died since 2020. Like "Radiation Vibe" is great but it's a very unexpected choice in context and gets me thinking maybe 10 people voted for 10 different Adam Schlesinger tracks and the editors made an executive decisions to combine those votes towards one song.

...which wasn't even entirely his.

10 specialized top 50 lists instead of a gral top 500

Yeah I really like this idea. Or a randomly organized list of 500 songs chosen only by superfans of the artists being polled. "500 Fan Favorites" or something.

Re: Prominent recently dead musicians, this actually worked in a good way for "The Humpty Dance" since it absolutely deserves to be here and sadly would probably not have been considered otherwise.