Grime in 2005

I saw C-Mone vs Vertical at a big jungle rave this NYE, he was sorta technically good but whatevs, she was fantastic.

If someone else doesn't make it overground in the next year I fear the whole scene will be dismissed as irrelevant, or move onto something else. But at the same time, the only people I can see actually making an album are Kano and Lady Sovereign - partly because these are the two MCs I see with the biggest force of personality behind them. Lady Sov is the only grime artist I can envisage having a #1 in Britain, for example.

plus grime is pretty much single handedly pioneering the dvd game which gives it it's own unique outlet, i wouldn't be surprised if hotheadz or someone start making alot of money out of dvds soon.

i predict the mixtape game will escalate to us style market saturation, bossman of essentials will become the underground figurehead.

guns n roses i'm looking forward to like most people, but i think the best mixtape in early 2005 will be the looney tunes cd. also keep an eye out for the south collective foreign format who will put south london back on the map.

the big riddim will be gype riddim by imp batch, once mcs work out how to ride it properly. has anyone else noticed how it sounds like the busdriver tune from tony hawks underground 2???

I think it matters HUGELY to a fair proportion of the people involved. Which musician *really* doesn't care if their work is dismissed as an inconsequential footnote in pop history, especially if a scene is in its initial stages (which grime, arguably, still is, especially in terms of where it COULD go).

There's a sizeable commercial element in all of this and it hinges all on catching the dilettantes, the people who were turned on to Dizzee after the Mercury Music Prize*. This is where the real money and the success is, no matter how much the bloggers and specialists rate the music, its the bigtime success that really matters and even a novice like myself can tell how much the MCs want it and how this informs the entire genre.

*Has any one career ever hinged so strongly on one award? I doubt it. Would Dizzee have been any bigger than, say, Wiley, had it not been for that Merc award? Much of Showtime would have been hugely different. Would he have been on Band Aid 20? Of course not.

haha TOTALLY

http://ghettopostage.blogspot.com

grime will stay level on the underground as kano lady sovereign roll deep etc. blow up. i can't imagine that the further developing promise of $$$ evidenced by artists getting record deals will stultify the underground. the two aren't mutually exclusive. the pirate scene will keep on doing its thing.

maybe a lot of the youngas are shitty now but they'll improve with age.

the wonder remix is off the chain.

Hahaha the biggest grime backlash I've seen has been from YOU?!?!

Hahaha the biggest grime backlash I've seen has been from YOU?!?! "

hahaha, true. im not the only one though. you could think of me as paving the way!

but i would think that if roll deep and sov and kano get success from distinctly non-grimy tracks, it will influence the underground to follow a similar route in order to get to their level.

I'd be surprised if "Boys Luv Girls" gets rereleased as a single, considering it looks like it will end up on the album as a bonus track rather than a centerpiece.

check it on Cameo's set:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tracklistings/piratesessions/piratetracks.shtml

not sure the first CD is Garage Hits 2005 tho

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4926759-111639,00.html

Run The Road by a country mile currently.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/primrosehill/skinnerpwn.jpg

i think: great monstrous bass-heavy beats, shit rapping.

What I've heard of their stuff I kinda liked, but I think judging by how they were talking they might end up being another UKG-turns-UK rap thing which would be disappointing, for me at least.

"I try to open up the freedom within the artist himself, to help him discover what he believed his message to be...to bring out that curiosity, to encourage that area of creative difference, to stifle not even the smallest element of exploration."

Probably even better put by Factory founder, late, great, Rob Gretton; "I just put some records out with my mates"

Based in Manchester, F4 Records is, as the name suggests, the 4th iteration of Factory Records and releases its first single on January 31st by Raw-T, the Moss Side-based Grime collective. Entitled "Where We Live" the single was produced by Raw-T’s beats man, DT and mixed, engineered and co-produced by Inkjeta and Zed Bias and is taken from Raw-T’s forthcoming debut album Realise and Witness,/I> which is scheduled for release in March.

F4 Records are also opening a download site with distributors Pinnacle to sell Raw-T tracks and also provide a digital outlet for the latest music from original Factory Records artist Vini Reilly of Durutti Column as well as new material from Manchester’s latest "working class pretenders", Young Offenders Institute. All material will be available only as a download from the F4 Records website at http://www.f4records.co.uk Full details will be announced shortly.

Anthony Wilson said, "This is a confession of utter failure. I have completely failed to either grow up or calm down. I am as excited about Raw-T as I was about Joy Division or the Mondays. And as excited about technology and what F4 can do for my beloved Vini and the wonderful Young Offenders as that Tokyo night my mate Takao-san at Nippon Columbia handed me Power Corruption and Lies, my first CD.

"F4 is a thrill and a privilege. As my boy in the Big Brother House once said of his discovery of a certain intoxicant, 'I'm made-up to fuck’."

F4 Records is proudly independent and is distributed in the UK by Pinnacle. The label is currently negotiating a number of licensing agreements with key territories around the world.

very interesting blog commentary on this particular post. it suggests that if anything, the wariness about grime being impatient to hit the big time any way possible (R&B/hip hop or however), is jumping the gun, as in a recent grime DVD, all the scene's practitioners are attacking those doing slower beats, and blatantly trying to crossover. thing is, wiley and dizzee both said the same things early on when their albums came out, that they werent going to compromise, and were going to stick to their guns, (wiley even had a go at those in the scene who were leaving to do hip hop in that fact magazine interview) but look what happened. roll deep are on relentless doing r&b/pop-hop crossover stuff, and dizzee is doing 'dream'! why should we believe the guys in risky roadz or practice hours with their 'stay true' ethos anymore?

you've got a point. why the hell would should we believe any of the underground MC's at this point? once the $$$ start flashing it looks like MC's are all too willing to get into some crossover stuff. it seems to me upon further reflection that the "stay-hardcore" ethos seems borne out of jealousy if anything, people like the NASTY crew, seeing roll deep go places while they're 'stuck' in the underground are responding by lashing out, labelling successful crews as sellouts and shit.

then again i could be wrong. the london scene has a history of keeping it hardcore. mebbe there's some substance to these declarations of keeping it real. like i initially said, we'll have to wait and see. but i really believe that this year will be the grand referendum. for the first time there are several grime albums being released.

as far as the 'hardcore' history, a lot of the early junglists were ex hip hop heads as everyone knows, and maybe their hardcore/stay true ethos was partly inspired by the anti-sell-out pose of hip hop back then. the lapse in this since then over in the US might have something to do with why grime is following a different path.

i have a feeling that since many grime MCs look up to american rappers a lot (more than many of them admit), and seeing as crossing over and compromising in the last ten or so years has been viewed as 'okay' in hip hop now, compared to hip hop's previous stance on selling out (no matter how trivial that notion might seem to plenty of ILXors), grime MCs will think it fine to follow a similar path. i mean, most of the beats im hearing on 90.0 and rinse these days are really redolent of any number of american synth-based producers (sadly) albeit with some faster tempos and UKG-ish rhythms underneath, its logical they use the states as their main reference.

hopefully i will be proven wrong however.

i suppose it depends on what you believe the shelf life of grime to be. i dont think it will be around for ever, not in the form we know it anyway. my own personal interest is beginning to wane, especially with this hip-hop feel that ppp describes, especially manifested on Aim Higher, which is why i dont really like that.

but whether grime does stay in its present form, or does "sell out", or "crossover" (ie become something different"), i think what has happened, undeniably, is that there is now a mc-based music outside of ragga/dancehall, that has strong roots (witness vast crowds of youngers entering the scene), becoming a fixed part of the uk music scene, as hiphop is now in the states.

i dont see grime as something thats going to blow up in its 'purer' form, and as more grime artists become mindful of that, i think more eyes on crossing over will undoubtedly shift the priorities of the music. i think it will be around for quite a while, i just dont think it will blow like all its blog supporters or artists seem to believe it deserves. i think its going to stay a cottage industry. which is fine, but thats exactly what UKHH is. i cant say id really mourn too much if i didnt hear any more UKHH for the time being, and after listening to raw fm and rinse and deja vu countless times as of late hoping to hear something to blow my mind, cant say i feel like id be missing out if i didnt hear much grime for a while either. in theory, it sounded so fucking great, in actual experience, for me at least, it hasnt lived up to what i hoped. thats my own stupid expectations though, im a fickle sort who doesnt much like these new shouty MCs. ;)

I think it's inevitable that any properly released album will be less grime-centric than many people would like, but this has always been the case with the hardcore continuum. There were certainly no "pure" 2-step albums released ever.

Estelle said the same thing w/ regard to UK hip-hop. Unfortunately Estelle isn't very convincing when she tries to do anything else, whereas even when Shystie dabbles in soul and gospel she sounds fresh.

that hardly sounds like the 'keep it real' ethos i, and im sure plenty of others, were hoping for from grime.

Hmm I wonder if the 'keep it real' ethos is turning into as much of a strawman/bugbear as the rockist insistence on 'real music with real instruments'. People keep citing the Shystie album as an example of the doom which lies ahead if - oh no! - grime MCs continue being influenced by r&b and hip-hop, but seriously that was the best grime album of last year, and I didn't think there was anything about it which went against the 'keep it real' ethos. If you object to that... well, I think the Kano and Lady Sov albums (most likely candidates to blow up next year) are probably going that route too so, you know, your loss. Keep your crappy-quality mp3s, I'll have my grime pristine!

Oh and btw that Garage Anthems 2005 double CD is the bomb, even though there is some abysmal mixing between some of the tracks which I thought was a CD fault at first, it's incredibly annoying to hear "Flowers" stop and start like the CD is skipping before segueing into "My Desire".

Wiley did say in one of the rinse fm sessions recently that he wants more girls to do more vocals so that he can get his 'pension' (something like that). It would be interesting to see full length records being released in some sort of pirate session format but it wouldn't be feasible but marrying a format (the album) invented in the 60s to accomodate another kind of music for this is a bit weird.

She's a really great MC, but i cant listen to only her and forget the rest of the song (i.e the actual music), which is what half of that thing makes me want to do.

"People keep citing the Shystie album as an example of the doom which lies ahead if - oh no! - grime MCs continue being influenced by r&b and hip-hop, but seriously that was the best grime album of last year."

Wiley's was better than showtime and shysties.

all there needs to be is some tape/CD packs of pirate radio sessions. id pay more for something like that then i would for the new kano/lady sov/whoever album. musically, actually, id say that new group on dizzee's label class a are much more interesting, hardcore and edgy then half the stuff being trumpeted like that hilarious terror danjah/bruza 12" 'ya get me' (which he says on EVERY single song hes on!) or that new trim 12". i can see why dizzee likes them, even if they could do with some lyrical assistance.

what are their most recent tunes? the last 12 i bought of theirs was pied piper. stryder's move was ok. i quite liked anna, that was kinda catchy. im not all that into the way they use synths like swizz (on a bad day) though, even down to the same type of sounds. its similar to what davinche does on ps and qs (synth horns - major dud in my book). they seem to overplay/overlayer the keyboards sometimes so it sounds a bit messy. not expecting them to play like jeff mills or someone but it doesnt seem like theyve mastered their instruments yet. they havent quite figured out how to mask that or play to their strengths; theyre trying to play 'real' melodies and it tends to sound a tad amateurish.

"I think it's inevitable that any properly released album will be less grime-centric than many people would like, but this has always been the case with the hardcore continuum. There were certainly no "pure" 2-step albums released ever."

not asking for an album of hardcore grime all the way through, although boy in da corner did a good job of showing a lot of range and versatility without making sacrifices to other genres (fix up look sharp aside). even the more fire crew album stuck mainly to UKG-style beats.

but god forbid an MJ cole of grime emerges in 2005!

well I can remember pretty much all the music! I like the way it's hard-edged but still shiny - guttery and glitzy at the same time. And the juxtaposition between Shystie's flow (she never really tones down the hysteria) and the gospel backing is magnificent at times. Actually the only song on the album I dislike ("Questions"), I can remember the music all too well.

Wiley's was better than showtime and shysties.

haha I think it's the other way round: Diamond In The Dirt > Showtime > Treddin' On Thin Ice.

Given how extraordinarily different they all sound though, I'm not sure whether this more-grimier-than-thou thing isn't a complete red herring. Especially as I think the roughest, most hardcore beats on any of those albums are on Shystie's, as opposed to Showtime's sparseness and Wiley's pristine strings. I mean, the hardcore stuff I hear when I tune into pirate radio isn't anything like what Dizzee or Wiley are doing these days.

As far as 'pure' two-step albums go, probably the Artful Dodger one was the closest...

Also I mentioned Ruff Squad because they are probably the group who do the most to come up with a sound that is totally distinct from other grime and also totally distinct from hip hop. I mean, your Swizz Beats comparison is spot-on but it glosses over the fact that the period of Swizz Beats we're talking about is a really fuckin' weird little chapter of hip hop - "Down Bottom" is a grime track in disguise! In terms of specific tunes it's hard to say because most of the tunes I know are from radio sets - but stuff like "Anna", "Havana" and "Misty Cold". I don't think the overlaying of synth melodies is a let-down at all - blunt maybe, but really effective and affecting! Also you can't underestimate the role that the hyper-syncopated half-time beats play (yeah, again, a Swizz Beats trick, but it's even more intense and insane here).

im not so sure how ruff squad are a self enclosed entity outside of other grime - couldnt you say the same for wiley's productions, dizzee's, even wonder's?

the period of swizz were talking about isnt that small a chapter. the effects of his beats can still be felt today in a ton of lesser known hip hop records. it was even more so when he was at his peak (commercially). down bottom isnt a grime track in disguise, grime producers are trying to be swizz beats with no disguise!

love the tenseness of hyper syncopation/southern bounce timing (but its not a swizz trick - tons of southern producers were doing it before as far as i know) - but i can do without the swarming synthy seas all over it. its like if mike oldfield was a grime producer! (okay, absolutely awful comparison but i cant keep it from entering my mind).

havent heard the recent cameo shows paul - am i missing out?

Re: grime production styles - yeah you could say that Wiley etc are also as distinctive but it's notable that only Ruff Squad and affiliates seem to rap over their grooves, and it's coming from a very specific place.

Also I get the Mike Oldfield comparison but this is sorta the point isn't it - they take an approach that is so unlikely to work and make it somehow magical. It's like hip hop tracks that sample Styx - it cannot fail!

could be that the antidote to the shouty MC style, which despite possible crossover potential "Forward", "Charge" etc still resembles undie hip hop, is a UK variant on R&B - with vocalist and a guest MC, as pioneered by those Kano and D Double E duets of last year: "What Have U Done", "Leave Me Alone", "So Contagious", "With You", etc. and the sound seems to be evolving with it.

leaving drab minimalism for resplendent maximalism (or so some of us hope - long as it keeps the UK/Caribbean lovers vibe (as distinct from U.S.)).

x-post

swizz was similar to mannie, but mannie was only one producer in the south. mannie used musicians, swizz just thought he could play it all on his korg. swizz was perhaps one of the first east coasters to try his hand at southern style hip hop production actually. but even then, give me three 6 mafia anyday. swizz was just plain bad really. and actually, as far as down bottom, that track is a lot sparser than say, anna by ruff squad.

didnt UKG already cover the antidote to US R&B quite nicely?

i like the d double/kano + singers duets, but feel theyd be better without the rapping. its a bit too redolent of R&B being hip hop's bitch and needing rappers on songs to do well like in the US.

Re Styx there was that ace Foxy Brown song which sampled Styx on Broken Silence but I can't remember what it is now (actually Davinche's "Grimey" sounds a bit like it). I'm not equating this sort of thing with corniness. That can be good too, but it's better when it's totally serious, when the hip hop context (or grime context if we're talking about grime) just totally overwhelms the signification of the sample source or synth used.

(double x-post)

I like that it would keep evolving, change phase even. we always want more of the good stuff, but the lack of more may mean that we actually did get enough of that era. look at how some producers seem to be on fire for a while, but then can't even replicate their golden style. maybe all the avenues were exhausted and the music had to move.

funny to be thinking that in reference to Ruff Sqwad, because it's Rapid's squigly synthcolours (and Jammer's peak era) that seem to be sparking some of the motion.

"of course the whole minimalism vs maximalism thing doesn't mean that producers have to chuck a whole mess into the track."

exactly.

re rza ok point taken but i dont see it so cleanly cos even the noisiest outwardly maximal tracks have a sort of quietude about them too i'd say? it's that tension wot keeps them gripping

also the lyric is Carly Bond complaining about "people messing with my life", made explicit by Purple "your father says we can't be together, because I am from wherever and you're an orthodox Greek (!)". it's girl group teen romance!

it starts with a 4-note melody of mournful droopy (Pied Piper -like) synth then goes into a push pull syncopated riddim that's ultrahype like Forward - pachinko parlour power!

http://blackdownsoundboy.blogspot.com/2005/01/rhythm-vision.html

ppp i've got that set. i'll upload it to my blog within a couple of days.

i've missed whole wacks of conversation but...

ruff squad stuff is lo-fi, but not as much as one would think by the mp3's. if you've heard their stuff on 12" you'll know that it's mastered pristinely and compressed very well... it ends up being a lot more heavy and high-impact.

as far as the ruff squad rza comparison, there's certainly the same sense of inwardness, but the RS's manifestation of dread / the stoic warriori stance is a lot more pronounced/upfront than rza's. there's more forward action in the RS productions.

i was looking at a picture of ruff sqwad and became curious as to whether they were all of african descent. i dunno why.

sometimes i'm reminded of this vinterberg film too. one of humanity's greatest follies! i ws bored numb at it's badness but cor if it wasn't exquisite heartbursting torture, and i briefly adored my fellow man afterwards. cozen?

hey titchy, why do you keep changing your name?

the obvious wu tang/ruff skwad comparison is the grimyness of course. like they all look dirty and have ragged clothes on. (they like kung fu too). rza isn't a technically accomplished producer; he makes beats like he raps, like a train wreck, the kicks are always out of place and the snares miss their cue (he is a genius at chopping samples though). rapid is just like this, sometimes on his earlier riddims it sounds like he just put random drum hits into the fruityloops sequencer and let it do its own work. i don't think ruff skwad are really about drums.

i know what you guys are saying about rza, and on paper, you can connect the (abstract) dots really easily, but actually listening to something like bobby digital 1 and ruff squizzad, i dont really hear it. what do i know though? im a lowly hateur......

the pic of lady sovereign in this month's vice!

Probably not enough to justify picking it up if you had to pay for the magazine (which of course no one has to do so. . .)

theres a grime primer in the new issue of hip hop connection, strangley enough. its not bad. big pic of kano with it.

http://www.viceland.com/issues_uk/v3n1/htdocs/blah.php

Ummm does anybody know what "underground mix tapes" he's talking about?

um: sorry, you're clearly right, this record is either terrible and/or i haven't listened to it at all.

HAHAH, thats great.

im not obsessed with him , so am a bit worried that it might be a bit monotonous

also, does anyone know about this? "
ARTIST : STORMIN/LADY FURY
3143
£ 8.50
TITLE : STORM THE STREETS/HELL HATH NO FURY
LABEL : DEFENDERS PRESENTS
DOUBLE MIXED CD FROM NASTY CREWS STORMIN & MUSKEETERS LADY FURY"

im qwuite into lady fury. didnt know she was in muskeete(e?)rs

whos lady qt? wheres she from?

Who can tell me about the Aftershock mixtape?

Please explain further, because totally off-base comments like these tend to create a prima facie assumption that, prior to now, Dizzee was the only grime MC you had heard.

thanks very much - appreciated.

Yeah, it was Dizzee the only grime MC is head heard. And I found him very irritating too. Sorry about it, but grime is crap IMHO.

What do people think of Alias, Titch and Sugababes' "Gully"?

I love it - like Davinche with better beats...

eg. 'you're a wank wort, fuck off'

any one got any othr versions of the countdown riddim?

noblemusic@gEEmail.com

thants guys

sorry for the leeching. to make amends i'll try and post some blatherings about these tracks on this thread in due course.

you really need the No Lay and Shystie tracks but I'm too drunk to figure ripping out now - might not have time to send til the weekend.

no no no, i like some grime, just not all of it. my hate for it is purely constructive, and if i do seem to hate it, its done with affection. i do stand by what ive said though, its like bloggers and trendies and co are all in a race to show how much they love this music so much cos its still new and underground, even if some things are well, a bit shit. but anyway, i came not to hate. wiley is still a fucking genius.

shit according to you, but i must admit i feel like this sometimes with the way other current/recent trends too e.g. crunk, hip-pop, electrohouse - all with what seems like 90% of the tracks coming out getting just as much OTT enthusing as grime. not a big deal tho, and nothing to gain from anon fuckos whining about it either really.

I don't have enough time or energy to invest much of it talking/thinking/writing about stuff I'm not feeling. The reason recent styles or trends get so enthusiastic a response is that there is usually so much good stuff floating around that you can ignore all the duds and move on to the next. That's why I imagine people like Titchy complain more about the perceived duds on 'Run The Road' than any of the other random dud grime tracks coming out all the time: their special status as officially collated and thus preserved-in-amber representative grime tracks makes them harder to ignore.

except when it's all too frequent and predictable knocking back without offering up explanation as to why it's deemed undeserved attention, or alternatives suggested and why. not that this is a personal attack.

basically i don't want to see 'X is shit' comments without a 'you should all be listening to Y instead, and here's why...' attached. is that so crazy? (unrealistic probably, and i'm guilty sometimes too)

first track is nuts, what is it?

Lady Sovereign and Ko-Mission's E-Zee and Wayne Wisdom are going to be on it. According to Elliot it's at 7:30PM on Monday March 7th, though it could be this Monday. Just tune in for the half-hour before Eastenders for the next few weeks and you can't miss it...

its here

actually this is etter than i rememered it

i like this a lot!

"biddibiddibiddibuddabuddabuddabzubbzzubbuzbzbztothebouncebrrbrrlllrwahwah ayy! ayy! awroahahaoa brllr brllr"

vs

"u think ur ryu or ken, u dont write words, i should buy u a pen."

flirta's bold discarding of words in faovur of pure sound/nonsense noise wins the day for me i think
aren't there avant-garde poets who make a living off of that? they get write ups in the wire.
brrr zzztping ping durdurdur

However the fuck you spell it, moment of the year there. Does Flirta D always do that?

Whoever that is between Kano and Lady Fury is great!

gonna shut up now

those sound poets are all rich - that's why they can pay wire writers to 'big 'em up' every month. xp => don't forget microphone feedback on those pirate sessions, that's good too.

well yeah, but surprise is sometimes overrated. this just seems like a better record, overall. everyone sounds more comfortable and more confident riding the beat, everyone has better verses, fumin isnt on the track (lol)....

Woebots review of aim high 2, keen to fit his anecdote about Wiley going to world music record shops!

its tucked away, but its there!

haha i dont mind typical me, or the video

BTW I think "Forward 2" is quite good. I don't get the complaints at all.

Is Flirta D the guy who does the "he's on fire" NBA JAM line in 'best of NW/W'?

send me a msg and grab my tunes - goglyfines @ slsk

However, he does use quite a lot of words sometimes.

He is rated by most girls cause they think he is fit, but as an MC he is rather dull IMO. I feel he is being pushed because he is one of the easier mcs to understand.

yes yes yes whatever, girls only appreciate music made by people they think are fit. fucking hell can we get past these ridiculous generalisations?

fwiw I think Kano is fit as well (needs to get rid of that bad facial hair though), and ALSO an amazing MC making great songs. It was really obvious at the Fabric Run the Road night that he was leaving a lot of people behind in terms of growing confidence &c. "Typical Me" is still lame though, and I don't want to see the video.

I really love "Forward 2"!

MCs better than Kano.

Riko
D Double
Bruza
Durrty Goodz
Trim
Jamakabi
Flirta D
JME
Tinchy Strider

Wiley from LOTM

K - A - N - O, ain't shottin no hoes.
K - A - N - O, don't role with the pros.

maybe Kano's MCing just appeals to women more? his style is one of the least overtly aggressive in grime and is more smooth and seductive. he's a lover, not a fighter! from the people you listed I'm assuming you prefer your MCs tough and macho and aggressive anyway.

I could name a few MCs who I think are better than Kano too but then hardly any of them have done a song as good as "Ps & Qs".

I am sure Kano is going to be massive but I don't think he should be the next big star to represent Grime. It would be like Usher trying to represent the dirty south.

This isn't true at all. The two-step hits of the early 00s were gorgeous then and are still gorgeous now.

I don't think the two have to be as polarised as you make out - in fact a lot of grime's strongest moments for me have come when it integrates some smooth r&b qualities while still retaining its dark, aggressive nature - grime'n'b cuts like "Mr DJ", "Leave Me Alone" and "Gully" as well as Kano's "Brown Eyes" or Wiley's "Special Girl". Of the hyper-aggressive MCs I still think Lady Fury is the best I've heard.

Usher may not be an ideal 'representative' of the dirty south but "Yeah" is still a better crunk'n'b song than anything the 'better' 'representatives' have come up with.

In the end I don't rate Kano because he is boring, not because he is not aggressive. Dizzee was good because his flows were clever and interesting.

Kano: "I got the girls of my side from the first rewind" Yawn.

The world does not need more RnB artists.

No, is there audio for it any where?

mwahahaah at the idea of usher and yeah being a better representative of crunk and the south than lil jon or ugk!

i detect a man with suspect taste.

When I saw god's gift on Aim High 2 he looked like he was well messed up.
Anyone else feeling boogyman?

agreed but that insane intricacy isnt really there on ps and qs or typical me is it? shame.

Only quibble: it's "bullets will make yr face look weird".

(tht is the straitest thing I ever wrote, finney. and I only wrote it like tht cs the rkkd demanded it. wait fr my hex enduction hour thing, and my scritti politti thing if it ever goes up.)

"Only quibble: it's "bullets will make yr face look weird"."
Phew thought my hearing was off for a sec.

Incidently the design of that site is sick.

Just heard "Not again - Riko murkage" by Neeko and Killa that tune is jokes. The beat is hot. Part of the more fire and boundary mixtape.

came from http://www.soulchampion.com/info.html

http://www.djsemtex.com/resource/Sounds/MIXTAPE/DJ%20SEMTEX-DIRTEE%20STANK%20MIX.mp3

"bullets will make yr face look weird" is much more audible on that than on the vn. of "cock back" on "run the road".

what's that, scg?

Neeko and Killer - Riko Slew

http://s13.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1LJBVKX9ENZ9Q2JCG3PK2J6U7O

Neeko and Killer - Riko Slew

i wasnt fishing for that by the way!

what is it with murkage/slweag/diss tracks? seems to be a tradition that they get done over tunes well out fo the grime paradigm, which is my dream, that all djs just start pulling out the most incongrous tunes they can find for mcas to spit over, likea sort of competition (like hip hop djs seacrhing for obscure breakbeats). Outside of Roll Deep, this idea seems to be only explored in these sort of diss tracks. like on er....Lord of the Mics is it? theres a Qiley diss by Lethal B over "cant get you out of my head".

more please E3!

Does anyone know the name of the track that they are spitting over in the Riko Slew?

just noticed this, as typos go its a good alternative! q and k are the opposite ends of the keyboard?!?!

"Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" is Ital-disco?

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/features/weekly/05-03-21-they-dont-know.shtml

no

Jaymc, I'll make you a mix if you like!

If, on the other hand, you're just "having fun" stirring shit up and you want to reduce this to some macho head-tripping playground-taunt session, then have fun playing w/ yourself. Better yet, go trip on yr ego in a forum where you can throw your weight around w/out worrying about someone calling you out on your loud-mouthed grandstanding bullshit.

not heard of tunes "brown eyes" and "signs in my life"...or those super old?

Actually i'd JME was the realest mc. he has bars about falling asleep on the train to uni and stuff

Barnaby, you should check out JME's Scotland if you enjoy this kind of thing. It's grime-quotidien.

Track Listing

1 Jenny - Essentials
2 So Sure - Sadie & Kano
3 Baby - Delta
4 Eyes On You - Jendor
5 Prangman - Foots & D Double E
6 Dead - Aftershock
7 K Dot - Kidman
8 Messed Up - Crazy Titch
9 Mad Thugs - East Connection
10 Going Mad - Wiley
11 Brusin - Aftershock
12 Leave Me Alone - Kano & Katie
13 Right Hooks - Foots
14 Watch Your Jaw - East Connection
15 Gone - Gemma Fox & 2 Face
16 Get Me - Bruza
17 Bang Bang Bang - Black Ops
18 So Contagious - Shola Ama & D Double E
19 Shut Down Shop - Essentials
20 Crack Your Skull - Napper
21 Distruction - Jammer
22 Gangster Toys - Demon & Kano
23 Foolish - Flirta D
24 Forward - Lethal B
25 Forward - 2 Face
26 Pies - Wiley
27 bonus
http://www.ukrecordshop.com/shop/image.php?productid=16683

I'm going to hell.

street anthems is the most best of bst of grime cd i think.

more than run the road. and it only cost 6 quid!

www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra

just heard that on the new cameo show. dunno who it was. i want to hear this fly away track. j sweet says hes opened up a new shop to take over big apple?!

l man sort of reminds me of taliban trim, he sort of contentedly drawls all over the beat

"i ll smash you into shiny (wtf?) particles like atoms and molecules"

shiny molecules?!

haha maybe l man is too cheesy with self consciously "knowledge" lyrics but im into it. theyve been talking about r'n'g. i hope that term doesnt catch on....

big up he huddersfield crew u dun no

I was gonna mention him on here. his Facts Of Life promo is so, so, so good. I haven't got round to marshalling all my thoughts on him yet though, also boss is heading my way aargh.

what really is cringey is his lyrics about being in care, do you remember him doing them on the lord of the deck dvd? he released a single in 2003 with those same lyrics, it was "r'n'g" - "l man don't worry" or something.

Do you really prefer the original, zemko?

Hey, I have all these problems too!

Use one Rhythm Division/Uptown!!

Use one audio-rip tool!

A lot of these MCs are still in school so they are probably directly taking what they learn in class and applying it to their rhymes.

what does this mean?!

however there is another grime night at the Stratford Circus on April 2 which will also feature pretty much everyone (inc Roll Deep WITH LIVE BAND, eep) so I will go to that instead. it also has the advantage of being 10 minutes walk from my flat YAY NO NIGHT BUSES FOR ME THAT NIGHT.

could someone gmail me the original versh of 'Hype Hype' please?

Roll Deep with live band
Lethal B with live band
Crazy Titch: PA with DJ
Durrrty Goodz: PA with DJ
Aftershock: Bruza, Sadie Ama, Elrae, Manassa, Mehnaz, The Lordz. Host: Terror Danjah. Special Guest: Shola Ama
Paperchase- KT Pearl & Essentials
Baby Blue
G-Force
Purple: PA with DJ
Static: Static featuring ‘All-Star Producers’
EC: Live set with Soundbwoy
Middlerow: JJ (Luck & Neat)
DJs: Crisis / Alex Split Mics

don't yet know just what to make of "prawpulyn"

http://s35.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=29WKTENW7V8I10XN4SI13PVOUL

Watch out it is REALLY LOUD

then there was this terrific MC cut which featured the amazing line "I'm classic like Mozart / so rude boy don't start / if you want rock there's Linkin Park"; I wish I'd heard his name!

So Solid news: Asher D is back, he has a new single called 'Man Dem', it's a bit rubbish and boring, even the DJ got bored and stopped it halfway through to play a new Davinche production with amazing staccato strings, which has both terrific MCing and a boy R&B singer on vox.

Been listening to the Essentials 'Last Night' tune. Kind of old but what a sick tune. If people haven't heard it they got to. Its off LOTD 2 . The bassline is mental.

Tim would it make you less envious if I told you I had to spend most of the set manually holding the aerial in order to get any sort of decent signal? despite living probably down the road from where it's transmitted!

I've also just realised how much I love that slight vibrato on Kano's voice on 'Mic Fight'.

Has anyone else heard Stop The Deck by mixtape by Essentials? That Sonic the hedgehog tune is soooo good.

still on the r&g tip (is that what we're going to be calling it, then? oh well) - DaVinche ft. Kele Le Roc, 'Frontline', omg, lush synths and high-pitched machine noises and buzzing wasp sounds before it explodes into this wonderfully restrained chorus. anyone want it?

DaVinche ft. Kele Le Roc - Frontline

yup, it is.

anyone going to this grime night thang in Stratford on Saturday then?

- the audience in the auditorium seemed to mostly consist of excitable teenage girls. I went to CD:UK earlier today and if I'd had to guess at which event I'd be more deafened by screaming 15-year-olds... I wouldn't have guessed right.

- teenage girls are maybe the best audiences in the world. we got there in time for Lethal B and they were going MENTAL for 'Pow!' Like, leaping up from their seats in unison, screaming the lyrics and dancing in the aisles. it wasn't the strongest set (please less of the rewinds and more of the playing songs) but the atmosphere was so, so amazing. at times, akin to a concert by Busted or similar.

- they also went mental for Crazy Titch, who was pretty awesome. he's so sweet, a scuffle broke out midset and he was all like "none of that! there're ladies down there! stop it!"

- they also went mental in the end for this incredible NW London human beatboxer whose name I forget. his version of Ginuwine's 'Pony' which he closed with was maybe the pinnacle of all music, ever, I was absolutely astounded by it. he also beatboxed 'Lean Back' and 'Pow!"

- talking of pinnacles, the compèring was fucking hilarious. the entire thing felt like a kids party.

- let's pass swiftly over Roll Deep With Live Band.

- Shola Ama arrived late, she was meant to play before Roll Deep but ended up closing the night with Terror Danjah. she was really, really fantastic - incredible voice, and it was great to hear it rise above the awesome grimeyness live which it doesn't do so much on record. however she should rue her lateness so much - she'd've gone down a storm if she'd played when she was supposed to, but everyone was so fucking bored by Roll Deep that they'd pretty much all gone home (also probably past their bedtimes), so the atmosphere was fairly dead.

- everyone else I missed due to guestlist fuck-ups, will I ever catch Katy Pearl live?

all in all: a top night.

I went to CD:UK earlier today and if I'd had to guess at which event I'd be more deafened by screaming 15-year-olds... I wouldn't have guessed right.

You've now made me envision a CD:UK GRIME SPECIAL which both horrifies and pleases me.

this description alone makes me very sad i didn't go. sad.

Any info on this? I searched mixtape kings and a few other places, but no dice so far. Sorry if this has already been discussed, I didn't see it on this thread yet.

i think all the grime kids need to take lessons from kano/demon/ghetto or dizzee and get on the road for a long, long support tour to learn their craft properly: there's a massive difference between smashing a pirate set or putting it down on a 12 to doing something live that works as event and sustained hypement.

apparently sidewinder was even worse though.

scott - that might well be the dirty stank promo mix that semtex did to promote dizzee's new nike trainer. it's pretty good: class a, dizzee and d double e over some crunk but mainly grime. there's a bit half of the way through where lil jon barks "DJ SEMTEX! GRIME! CRUNK & GRIME BITCH! LET'S GO!"

I don't think Roll Deep even soundchecked, half their mics didn't work in the first song. they were so boring.

I'm listening to the Stormin/Lady Fury mixtape now, I heart Fury so much but Stormin is surprisingly ace! especially this diss of Trim.

And Roll Deep were just terrible... a total tumbleweed moment, mics were popping, levels were all wrong, and no Wiley or Riko either

stormin has been big from day, i'd love to hear this mixtape.

i thought it was pretty great throughout with the exception of the astounding mis-step of the roll deep live muso band thing, thank god danny weed saw sense and came on with a cd of 'morgue', saving their set at the absolute last minute

the hordes of teenage girls going brrap and doing gun signs was a sight to see

so much for the this is boys-music theory

the incongruity of people moshing and going crazy inside these rows of theatre seats was kinda cool i thought

yeah that human beatbox guy was astounding, the way he could do the beats and the vocal melody simultaneously

wiley wasn't there cos he's on tag, 11 o clock curfew

I thought the environment was very female-friendly. I liked that, it seemed really positive esp. with the penchant of the mainstream media to associate 'grime/hip-hop/dancehall nights' with 'shootings'. I liked the way that these 15-yr-old girls could feel free to go wild and not have to worry about safety. at the first sign of a scuffle Crazy paused his set to tell them off!

What, at the same time as that black hooded sweater, No Lay?

For those who haven't heard it: Unorthodox - No Help Or Handouts

btw, if one of you UK kids happens to be going to the urban music festival, i urge you to cop the exclusive RWD mixtape disc and make for me a copy (or send for me the mp3s), check the tracklist:

1. Wiley - (They Just Can't Get Along With) Wiley [Roll Deep Recordings] {Produced by Wiley}
2. JME - Serious [Unsigned] {Produced by JME}
3. Skepta - Private Caller [Mastabeats] {Produced by Skepta}
4. Mondie ft. Flirta D, Ribz, Shizzle, Napper - Pull Up Dat (remix) [Unsigned] {Produced by Dexplicit}
5. Bruza - Get Me [Aftershock] {Produced by DOK}
6. Bruza - What You Waitin For? [Aftershock] {Produced by Terror Danjah}
7. Dogzilla - Hallo [Unsigned] {Produced by Danny Weed}
8. Jammer - Merkle Man Outburst [Jahmek The World] {Produced by Wiley}
9. Roll Deep - When I'm 'Ere [Relentless] {Produced by Danny Weed}
10. Trim ft. Riko & Wiley - Boogeyman [Unsigned] {Produced by Terror Danjah}
11. Newham Generals - Prangaman [Braindead] {Produced by Footsie}
12. Newham Generals ft. Wiley - Prangaman Remix [Braindead] {Produced by Footsie}
13. Akala ft. Riko, Jammer & Ears - Roll Wid Us (remix) [Illastate] {Produced by Dexplicit}
14. Ruff Sqwad - Anna [Unsigned] {Produced by Rapid}
15. Nasty Crew ft. Dynasty - Nasty Bonanza [Heatseeker] {Produced by Agent X}
16. Statik ft. Ghetto & Demon - Never Guess [Highly Flammable] {Produced by Statik}
17. Nasty Crew - City Life [Heatseeker] {Produced by Agent X}
18. Shola Ama - With You [Aftershock] {Produced by Terror Danjah}
19. Riko - Don't Want You Back [Aim High] {Produced by Target}
20. Skepta ft. Chanel - Fly Away [Mastabeats] {Produced by Skepta}
21. Sticky - All I Wanna Do [Tell Dem] {Produced by Sticky}
22. Katie Pearl ft. Jendor - Mr DJ [Paperchase] {Produced by DaVinChe}
23. Scandalous Unlimited ft. Carly Bond - My Life [True Tiger] {Produced by Scandalous Unlimited}
24. Ayak - Grindin (J Sweet rmx) [Unsigned] {Produced by J Sweet}
25. Delinquents - Ghetto Queen [Spoilt Rotten] {Produced by Delinquents}
26. Donae'o - United [UK Panther] {Produced by Donae'o}
27. Statik ft. Gemma Fox, Donae'o, Lethal B, Crazy Titch, Nio & Flirta D - Groupie [Highly Flammable] {Produced by Statik}
28. P Jam ft. Chardonnai & Frisco - Can't Hold It In [Dice] {Produced by P Jam}
29. Unorthodox Family - No Help Or Handouts [Unsigned] {Produced by Silk-E}
30. Ears - Fine Fine [Jahmek The World] {Produced by Lewi White}
31. Flirta D - Warpspeed [Bionic Beats] {Produced by Jiggalo}
32. SLK - Hype Hype [Smoove] {Produced by Sticky}
33. Essentials - Shut Down Shop [Paperchase] {Produced by DaVinChe}
34. The Alliance - Stop [Unsigned] {Produced by DaVinChe}
35. Doctor ft. Riko - Come On [D Power] {Produced by Diesel}
36. Skepta - Dancefloor [Mastabeats] {Produced by Skepta}
37. DPM ft. Napper, Bruza & Shizzle - 'Ave Some Of That [DPM] {Produced by Dubplate Mexx}
38. So Solid ft. Asher D, Face & The Twins - Mandem [So Solid] {Produced by Dan Da Man}
39. Faction G - WMDs [Unsigned] {Produced by R Biz}
40. Backwards Riddim [Lethal Da Bizzle] {Produced by Dexplicit}

(btw, "what you waitin for?" isn't a gwen cover, i dun heard the sample)

definately over the grime, and over any of it really

wait, i'm not in LA. FUCK.

My DSL was down last week, but I am slsking this (not online right now though.)

haha I would e-mail logan sama but a) it seems a bit cheeky and b) I dunno the name of the mix that everyone's raving about.

well, this is exhilarating

did anyone find out who the guy after kano is yet?

riko dan

more love from me for this rwd mixtape, im justs listening, it is a great mix of all the r'n'g or whatever and all the grime.

never thought id like a skandalous unlimited tune! that one is mental

aaaowww that's HOT!
check it on Richie Vibe Vee's show this week:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/tracklistings/richievee/richietracks.shtml

BRUZAGETME!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/dance/breezeblock/tracklistings.shtml?dp_rhn_block_link1

But the conclusion is esp. cynical...

"If you wake up Tuesday morning hungering for the sound of the future, you'd be better to swoop up something like Roots Manuva's new album, Awfully Deep, which trades follow-the-crowd uniformity for originality and uniqueness. Grime is gonna wash away come next rain, but hey, if you prefer a fad whose egg timer is already counting down its fifteen minutes, by all means snatch a copy of Run the Road -- quick, before it's passé."

Well, considering that Grime has been on for at least three years proper already, it's hardly a fad. But the frustration I can recognize, desperately searching for some back-to-back grime action in Melbourne is near impossible - we only get the odd Dizzee track or 'Hype! Hype!' amongst a bunch of dancehall and crunk. People seem reluctant to push the sound all night, or at least for a set.

That has more to do with the difficulty/expense in obtaining 12"s than any lack of desire on the part of the DJs.

in fact.....hasnt it lasted longer than 2 step?
maybe not, but its getting there
putative life spans:

2 step - 1996/7 (tina moore?) > 2002/3 (er....)

grime - 2000 (dilemma? haha dont hate me!) > ?????

grime has the POTENTIAL to beat 2 step and d'n'b in terms of logneivty becasue of the personalities involved, that were slightly reticent in 2 step, and actively discouraged in d'n'b, but thats what a pop audience, and a scene, wants. chracter, personality, a visual hook, someone to put in magazines etc. i think this element could maybe even make grime a long term prospect!reading rwd, its easy to imagine a world where new mcs are lauded round the country, and the sonic palette is familiar and well established. maybe the distributional and accessibility problems will kill it off. or maybe people just dont want to hear it.

btw of course people are still making 2 step and dnb, but im talking abotu their lifespans in the white heat of "the scene"

I know a few primarily D&B DJs that have really gotten into it - they have enough records for a set. On my request, they tried a bunch of tracks, it actually sort of killed the floor. But it might have just been the context...

Target is the biggest genius in TIME!

Now get the Aftershock mixtape and the AAA thing from him!

:(

Yes! I'll send you everything! Soon!

thanks adam : )

Sure. Is it as good as the remix I sent you (or is that remix on there)? Have you got the Sway mix that is floating around, Adam?

Not heard Akala yet.

Perhaps THIS will redeem the Roll Deep album:

"Disc: 2
1. DVD "A Day In The Life Of Roll Deep" – 10 minute documentary
2. DVD Interviews with each crew member
3. DVD Photo gallery including all band members
4. DVD "When I’m Ere" video – normal and XXX versions
5. DVD Package will include poster of the crew"

The DVD was what finally sold me on buying it haha!

if you sign up to the Rinse forum there's a secret audio room where links to each day's recent Rinse audio sets and some classic ones are posted. a recent revelation to me.

Anyone heard semtex's Crunk and Grime mixtape?
Serg threw up some tracks here: http://somanyshrimp.com/2005/06/crunk-grime.html

What would people say would be the best, oh, 3 mixtapes to get apart from these? I'm assuming Afterhsock and the RWD one, but what else? Stormin's? What's this AAA thing?

Street Anthems 2
AAA/Rwd
Aftershock tape

and that Logan Sama Sidewinder thing if you don't already have it.

Loved the gype riddim and now I can't stop listening to "He Said, She Said" (not the one on the Dice Recordings tape) and "You Are An Idiot". VERY intriguing.

Tim, don't skip the Stormin/Lady Fury one, it's really good.

Also...MARTIN if you are reading - Me and Alex are discussing this the other day, but why is nobody writing about/explaining the economics of grime, the way it all works? Presumably most of these people are still sinking their own money into the music if no big labels are picking up the bill. Is this why the same tunes get rinsed for ages before we hear anything new? Or would this all feel different if I could get to Uptown/Rhythm Division?

For example - what is happening to all these "albums" that are getting recorded but never released? Why aren't tunes that could clearly be potential hits being picked up or marketed? Why isn't there more print coverage of grime (as in a magazine like Deuce). I just tend to presume there isn't enough money/interest to make this an "industry", but if click house and nu d'n'b can have a clearly defined audience, why not grime?

Cf to why click house and d&b have a clearly defined audience and why not grime - i think this can be traced back to a change in the way people are relating to music.

In a youth cultural sense music is not the key, defining force that it was even 15 years ago. Diffuse media channels (DVD, PS2, MTV, Mobile etc) have undercut its command of disposable income. If you can hear your favourite track on channel u for free, or buy a ringtone, do you have any interest in owning something so like an album - the majority of which you know from bitter experience will be crap (cf see mixtapes, DVD etc)

The music industry has yet to work out how to deal with the generation born after 1988.

Some thoughts, anyhow

Maybe someone needs to release an instructional LP or video for us Americans, How to Do the Grime, or Grime Dancing in Two Easy Steps.

This too being a huge generalization. Fwd riddim has a VERY strong pulse/groove. Wheras "I Luv U"'s groove seems like an anti-groove. if that makes sense.

Perhaps I need to head for the dance palaces next time there's a Grime Night in Denver, to see how the aficionados comport themselves.

that tunes as much of a banger as anything!

This tune is so beautiful! It reminds me of Saint Etienne's "London Belongs To Me" or something. Plus I'm really enjoying JME's new obsession with puncturing the drama in grime (a day in JME's life sounds pretty laidback really, although he doesn't mention his uni classes).

"This tune is so beautiful! It reminds me of Saint Etienne's "London Belongs To Me" or something. Plus I'm really enjoying JME's new obsession with puncturing the drama in grime (a day in JME's life sounds pretty laidback really, although he doesn't mention his uni classes)."

LOL@JME and st etienne being mentioned together and this tune being called beautiful.

tell you what though, i just bought some twelves of ruff squad's underground, geeneus' grand theft auto and terror danjah's sonar and those tunes are heavy, murkery, etc etc. not too keen on that hip-hop-piano plodder on the bside of underground, but underground's beat is just one of the best beats ive heard in a fucking age. love it. seems to have some old hardcore/ravey/jungley traces (prob only traces though) which makes me think the hardcore continuum theory isnt complete chaff for once (j/k).

LOTD 3 out people, u know that? i just bought it. i dont write much cos i dont hear much.

wasnt into grand theft auto which i only just heard cos rhythm division got it. it just sounded like a bootleg of other geeneus tunes

!

which other tunes? i love this one - GTA sounds amazing with riko on it, which is how i first heard it. that vocal isnt on the 12 though, weirdly.

The backwards guitar! The bleary string pads! The warm bass bubbles! To keep the reference points strictly intra-grime, the only comparable tunes I can think of are "I Love U Part II", Wiley's "Special Girl" (mostly the intro), and, um, that's about it! Maybe I'm forgetting something. I should note though that I was not arguing that JME/Skepta are taking their cues from Saint Etienne.

I really like JME on this and on "Serious" (Ambrose that's the one where he talks about how he can fall back on uni if he needs to) - I think he's going for a similar feel flow-wise to Mike Skinner, mainly on his first album, sort of conversational and superficially awkward but somehow really appealing in its rhythm. Actually Skinner provides fairly good reference points generally for this stuff - "Serious" is a lot like "Let's Push Things Forward" in sound, flow and content.

I love the sound of this couplet in "A Day Wit JME": "(phone ring) Answer my phone/some shit MC chattin' bout collaboration/no time to cotch/look at my watch/eight o'clock/gotta get down to radio station."

As for what you have to say about grime, I think yr pretty good and insightful titchy when you're going beyond dismissing everyone here as hopelessly misguided wankers who don't know the first thing about grime - I'm glad that you mostly contain your hilarity/revulsion these days.

but underground is just brilliant man. why arent more people talking about this. its the best thing ive heard ruff squad do to date, always wondered what the fuss was about them, but now i get it. also, why dont people rate terror danjah more? i dont think ive ever heard anything rubbish by him, yet it seems that target and danny weed get more fan-worship. terror's stuff sounds more 'dancey', and more in the dance lineage than most (i dont have aim high though) of the stuff ive heard from danny or target. still not a huge fan of the hip-hoppier end of grime stuff, unless its really special. thats it, im gonna sign up to dissensus.

I think Target & Danny Weed get more love to some extent because they don't do as much er R&G - there seems to be this anti-R&G movement brewing on the grounds that it's too commercial or the soft-option (there was a thread attacking it on Dissensus a short while back).

I like both camps a lot but I also think they're closer than a lot of people recognise. Like, Target's remix of "So Sure" is brilliant but also surprisingly subtle, a very slight manipulation of the original which nonetheless is obviously restamped as his own (I think there's something more um emotionally fragile about Target's grooves compared to Terra Danjah, whereas the latter goes for more of a manic intensity feel). And similarly I think "Dead" and "Shank Riddim" feel quite close to eachother - that same median point between grace and violence.

I reckon you'd really like Aim High 2 Titchy, it sort of digests the hip hop influence without going all out hip hop at all, it's all really kinetic and dancey feeling, the nearest thing I've heard in terms of sustained intensity to those Nasty sets from circa early 03.

er.....do you mean youre surprised?

i do still listen to grime, but i often get headaches so am not in the mood. also, the only things i have on cd are old stuff like creeper vol 1 and the nasty set fromm 2003.

i havent really heard any of these tunes mentioned here, apart from tiny clips on record shop sites.

the last tune that really grabbed me was prob. "singalong". i couldnt tell you what geeneus tunes GTA reminds me of, i dont know any of the names. it probably doesnt i guess, just all the sounds he uses. i cant even remember which tunes wizzbit did and which stuff geeneus has done.

i am feeling more behind the curve than ever in this area. i dont really know the names of anyone, i never could remember which mc was which. all i know is that i think bruza is my fav. mc, i really like brazens voice, that serious tune is really good, except the one on rhtythm division sounded completely different, and that wiley is still a top boy.

ill report back when i get LOTD3 and get up to speed a bit.

im not sure if i like targets stuff, i dont like all that piano. terra danjah is ok, but i still like davinche more than anyone. i cant really get into grime as a tune thing, for me its juts an endless succession of bootlegs, sonic references, riddims and different flows. its totally liquid to me, so its not really a 12" or album format. dvds and radio is whats its about i thin, which is ironic as i never hear any radio stuff.

as for dancing to grime, i think you do dance, but not with yr feet. its more about "bang yr head" which brings to mind all those mo wax "head nodding" stuff. but it makes you twitch way more, you can shake yr ass and leave yr feet pretty static. that trip hop never made yr ass shake, cos there werent many hi htas and snare hits i think.

fuck that i dont know what im on about.

i was never really int o what everyone said about the production on tings in boots or anna or anything, but i do know i love love love the syn drum tom rolls in loads of their tunes like "down" and "undewrgound" i nthe background.

* its really confusing when people just talk about tunes withotu mentioning who (they think) its by. grimes got a bit too big now ( in terms of content) to just mention "eskimo" or somethig and everyone will know it. please tell us more!

* examples of my backwardness. i stil havent heard tunes that people raved about 1000000 yrs ago, esp. "fly away" - skepta and chanelle, and davniche "blue". i just listened to something called "tunnel vision" that could have been wiley or ruff sqwad, but i seem to remember someone mentioning it ages ago. anyone got em?? ;)

It's confusing with JME because he says "serious" in almost all his songs so it's hard to know what's what.

"Serious" (which also seems to be referred to as "Calm Down") has the following lyrics:

"Everybody thinks to MC tough
Your lyrics must be about negative stuff
Go ravin', no-one's skanking
Turn around I bet you someone's shanking
Just cos we come from the gutter
And we know about scraping the bottom of the butter
Don't mean we have to be sinners
Major labels don't want killers
Think: who's gonna sign a guy with a shank
Or a guy with a nine mill?
All you're gonna get is a free (?)
You MC at a rave and get a bill
But that bill ain't gonna last
It will go fast and it might be the last
You (?) for a while and you won't have
No dough for a while (SERIOUS!)

To the beat
Just bop your head to the beat
If you don't want to dance to the beat
Then bop your head to the beat
If you don't want to dance or lean back
Then bop your head to the beat
If you don't want to dance to the beat
Just bop your head to the beat

You're not (SERIOUS!)
Don't say (SERIOUS!)
Cos I say (SERIOUS!)
You wanna get? (SERIOUS!)
Let's get! (SERIOUS!)
You can't have (SERIOUS!)
So don't say (SERIOUS!)
About... (SERIOUS!)
(Repeat)

Everybody says that garage is stock (?)
'Cos it's cheap like elixir (?) or tip top
MCs turn UK hip hop
Scared that their album will flop
I'm flogging food like a chip shop
So I'll fall back on that if this flops
Plus I got uni so if shit pocks (?)
Off with the cops, trust me, I've got it locked
How come every single MC is vexed?
It's like the whole point of MCing nowadays
Is to get a reload on the decks
Man will go to radio on Thursday
Even though it's his birthday
He'll spit lyrics like it's the worst day in his life!
(that's not serious) (SERIOUS!)"

There's another verse but i'm getting sick of transcribing. Anyway, best lyrics ever!

I've also yet to hear those tunes you just mentioned Ambrose. But I think "Tunnel Vision" is supposed to be P Jam.

'Cos it's cheap like calypso or tip top

Plus I got uni so if shit pops

to the beat...

im well confused