So, was the crowd that boo'd Ashlee Simpson at the Orange Bowl rockist?

An upper-middle-class girl whose celebrity status hinges on her older, more talented sister.

really, though, this whole thing could have happened to any pop star.

what else could she do? If Ashlee is destined to not be a great natural live singer, no matter what singing courses she takes and how much she practices, she only has the one road to take -- the lip-sync road -- and she was caught.

and who knows, maybe the sound system and sound check at the game was subpar.

(I never thought I'd be posting such a defense of Ashlee... wow)

Other: "A new thing!"

Me: "I think it sucks."

Other: "You rockist tool."

*Other is slain*)

Around the time U2 played at the super bowl a couple years ago, I think my dad found their sound different, yet somewhat engaging. And new.

Then again, I'm not shedding tears for Ashlee, given that she's gained new fans from the SNL exposure, and Ashlee did a knee-jerk blaming of her band for that incident... also, her music (or her team of music writers and performers, if she's not involved) is really tepid and bland.

also mike h otm.

I mean, of course not everybody fits the mold of mike h's description of attendees above, and I'm sure mike h knows that.

"Ashlee Simpson had just finished belting out a halftime number called 'La La' when a balmy night in South Florida turned suddenly cold. Lusty boos cascaded on the black-clad, acid-reflux-afflicted singer.
Don't take it personally, Ashlee. Your critics at the Orange Bowl - some of them anyway - were disgruntled Oklahoma fans who knew that your pal Casey Cobb was friendly with USC junior quarterback Matt Leinhart. They were trying to get back at him any way they could."

the idea that there's a singular, like-minded "football crowd" is just obnoxious. Yes, there are shitty football fans out there. Are they the majority of people who were there that night? I don't know, and neither does mike (unless he was there, which I doubt). And I do think it is unbelievably lame to ascribe opinions and motives for those opinions to such a large group of people. You might as well say "all african americans hate rock" or "all dentists like porn" or something as equally ridiculous.

What a lie!

..which is why I assumed the statement had hidden "mostly", "maybe", or "most likely"s in it... "all [blank] are [blank]" statements are ridiculous, of course. and looking above, mike h didn't use the "all" word.

Anyway, granted, while this was all in the 90s and not today, I regularly DJ'ed college sporting events for my alma-mater college station, and I found the essences of mike h's description eerily accurate...

I think we can all agree that most sports fan are not necessarily music fans (and i stress "most"), so a "this type of music is good, and this is not" mentality will always be present.. so when anything directly musical is being forced upon a large number of sports fans, the reactions are going to be closer to black or white, if there's anything more than indifference or mass runs to the bathroom facilities.

I am saying this from direct experience, albeit dated experience.

Point taken, but I don't think it's misguided reasoning to assume that this particular crowd is any different from other football crowds.

However, I doubt the crowd would feel the same if Basement Jaxx performed at that show.. which makes a big difference. When a performance happens, the attendees are forced to deal with something they didn't necessarily come to see. So of course crowd reactions could be rougher.

xpost - dude junior senior gets played all the time at sporting events now. fuck this fake rockist/popist - sports/geek divide, it's an illusion.

this is based on what, exactly?

Your lucky if you can hear anything and half of the time, you're too drunk to even care. It's fashionable to hate Ashlee Simpson right now and it's silly to attempt to try to apply this rockism nonsense to this event. This thread is rockist!

Xpost, nevermind.

And again, what if Junior Senior performed at a sporting show? What if Incubus performed? What if Big & Rich performed?
Who knows. Who cares. This specific case is a case of a well known punching bag music icon performing (i.e. assaulting his/her/their music onto a large crowd that really just wants to take a break, from the attendee's perspective) at a show with a lot of more-digruntled-than-normally-so fans.

If fans have become far more appreciative of musical performances during halftime than in the 90s, and I just missed it, then I'll happily stand corrected.

Most of the time though, production crews seem to try to edit those negative sentiments out whereas in this case, it's a bigger news story if Ashlee gets booed again, so let's turn up the crowd noise.

Imagine a Rankin and Bass Frosty the ILX Strawman.

As for the "mob mentality" comments... well, if you get a large enough group of people in one place for an event involving emotional ups and downs, I don't think the use of the term "mob mentality" is wrong, in a strictly definitive sense. This can apply to any gathering of people for a specific event.

A reasonably large mass of simpletons, or people given over to being simpletons, booing the easy target. Booing the corporate sponsor making the awards at the end of the game would've have shown greater character. Booing White, even throwing coins at him and the Sooners, before the half would have shown even more.

Still... how does that invalidate my bringing up the Comiskey Park reference?

Anyway, the crowd was just booing that dumbass 'anarchy' symbol on the bass drumhead.

I was just stating that many people here in ILX are going knee-jerk associate "rockism" and "sports" partially because of the disco record bonfire.. I'm not saying it's right to make such an argument. And I'm not getting how that bonfire happening at a baseball event made a difference with the association, as opposed to a racing event, or a basketball ball, or any other sporting event.

j, i think you're assuming that I'm trying to validate rockism associations with sports, of which I'm actually doing the opposite.

What're you talking about? Watched or attended any Nittany Lion football games last season?

Booing during the corporate shmuck's presentation would've worked nicely.

is there a less rockist genre than sports jams???

oh, I wouldn't defend the White Sox fans responsible for those incidents, JB.

I've been a Detroit Lions season ticket holder for the past 5 seasons. I've probably been to more football games over that span than anyone on this board except Matt Helges@n, who if I recall has Viqueen tickets. Blount is O-T-M. At least in D-town there is just as much pop and rap and R&B played as there is rock. At White Sox games the split is even more in favor of pop/rap/r&b.

Seriously, when I was thinking up my top 10 musical moments of the year, 8 of them were concerts I attended, 1 of them was viewing the "mosh" video, and the other was when "Let's Go" boomed out through Ford Field during the player introductions that preceeded the Thanksgiving Day game. I got fuckin' CHILLS, man, it sounded so good. The crowd, of course, loved it as well.

JB, have you read that 'Whammer Jammer Yellow Hammer' bk?

Then it would have been more thank OK to boo the Sooners and White because after the first quarter their performance was well beyond excessively shitty. They weren't competitive and one could have viewed it as an appropriate motivational tool. Anyway, one of White's professed rationales for not getting out of everyone's hair after last year was to go though a "do-over" so as to erase the bitter taste of his disgraceful performance against LSU. The Sooners talked relentlessly about how they were a better team and the press believed them. And then, of course, there was the clown lineman who blabbed about Leinart being nothing special. Now he's entitled to his free speech and he was also entitled to booing for his falling down performance.

what a huge waste of education

i think the halftime show involved at least two drunken/hungover marching bands struggily to remember whatever routine they were supposed to tromp around in.

the next day, we were so pissed that Lloyd Carr & the team wasn't on the Tonight Show, since we waited in line for tickets for it.

I was at the 2002 Fiesta Bowl when Ohio State beat Miami (the one with the 3.5 seconds between the time the game was over and the time the ref reached into his pocket to throw the flag for just about the biggest bullshit pass interference call ever).

http://mail.onshore.net/~rschrade/miamihold.jpg

PWNED!!!

kingfish, I was there too!! I think we may have talked about this on AIM at some point actually. Yeah, that was incredible. Woodson's interception in the end zone was a thing of beauty. Man, did he ever have a season. That team was so awesome defensively. Griese played just well enough to consistently win. then that piece of crap Eric Crouch had to go and whine like a baby and get the coaches to split the vote. Unreal. Every smart football fan knows which was the most dominant team that season though. Oh btw, hey Crouch, way to dress up for the Heisman ceremony last month.

these games today have been great. J-E-T-S already covered.

I think I just may have generalized more and been more offensive, depending on if the term "middle of the road" offends. I'm just saying that to please the most people, you have to aim straight down the middle, to say nothing of field goals.

hold the phone!!
you mean they don't?!

man....my world is shattered.

There was no rock because they simultaneously released "Jock Rock."

Oh my god. I'm sorry.

Have any of those artists performed live on tv during a halftime show, though? I know KC & the Sunshine Band and the Village People probably have, but most of those are the stuff that plays to get people hyped up while the actual game's going on.

COSMO: Is there something people don't know about you?

ASHLEE: I'm really quite girlie. A lot of people only see my tomboy side. But I need to get my manicures and facials. People think because I sing punk rock music. that I don't care that much about all that kind of stuff, but I do.

Oh good Christ this is fucking ridiculous.....paging Alex in NYC!

DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!

Since that issue came out, everytime I'm standing there in line at the grocery checkout, my eyes can't stay away from that cover.

It's one thing to "cling to notions of punk's authenticity", but it's another to flagrantly claim to "sing punk rock music," when in fact the product you're pushing has no connection to "punk rock" -- in any of its hotly debated incarnations -- in even the slightest semblance.

And to your dubious asssertion that "pop punk exists," it should be noted that Ashlee didn't qualify her music as "pop punk," but rather simply as "punk rock".

Before you even cite them, though, Simple Plan and Good Charlotte don't have the right to call their music "punk" either.

You just rendered your entire argument moot.

Yet Lemmy covered "God Save the Queen" and was briefly a member of the Damned. Lemmy's a purist, who probably thinks the MC5 deserve the credit, which is fine with me. I reckon he'd agree with me regarding Ashlee's claim, though.

yep...it's totally impossible to make reasonable judgements.

ALSO:

i'm no big punk rock dude in terms of image or anything, but yeah I guess it does mean something to me and has been important to me and my life, so yeah I guess some of this bothers me....I'm sorry.

Also, I understand that yeah, punk orthodoxy is as annoying as anything else but I think that there has to be a limit to what can be considered "punk" in any true sense of the word....Also, this whole thing of ILM absolutely loving anything that's perceived as being oh so deliciously fake or manufactured and thumbing it's nose at indie/punk dogma is getting as tired as said dogma

Also,

Xpost to Jon....Punk is purely just a fashion sense to you? I guess I've always considered noise stuff to be functioning as part of the more broader definition of punk (or at least my definition of punk, in which case this post might be revealing only that I agree with myself, but still...)

oh, lemmy gives the damned all the punk credit in the world. from his autobiography, p. 117: "the damned ... were the true punk band, not the sex pistols. the pistols were a great rock 'n' roll band, but really that's all they were."

OTM!!! CAN I GET AN 'AMEN'?!?!

If he did, I'd imagine it'd be along the lines of: "`Ere, she's got a nice one!"

oops sorry my bad. i get confused with everyone changing names all the time.

That's why Ashlee and other kids cling to this "punk" notion for some cred. It doesn't matter much because people should know that Punk The Movement is long past. Would you be as upset if Ashlee started claiming that she was totally in tune with the music and fashion styles from the Civil War? It's a joke.

That said, I think noize is pretty punk in the truest sense of the word, but not so much Punk with that elitist capital 'P." God forbid in 15 years we find a bunch of 30/40 year olds in Paper Rad shirts.

http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg http://www.mcarecords.com/MCAImageUpload/1065857-Full.jpg

Well, technically speaking, it's been dead and buried for the past fifteen years. But beyond that, while I'd agree there are a lot of cartoony sartorial aspects to the layperson's perception of "Punk Rock," there was a great deal more to it than simply clothes.

I'm pretty sure that even she is aware that Punk is dead.