nina gordon - "straight outta compton"

http://www.ninagordon.com/sightsandsounds.html

(xpost scott you are drunk)

Tori Amos says she's covered "Fear Of A Black Planet", but never released it. She did release her cover of "97 Bonnie & Clyde" though!

I didn't know that "According to Jim" had started having bon mots! I'm going to have to start tuning in.

Surely there's something offensive about this?

Normally, I'd agree, but go back and listen to the original right now, and you'll hear that Cube's phrasing is more annoying and faux-confrontational than pleasing to the ears. Yeah, yeah, I know it's supposed to be some sort of canonical moment, but Cube always got on my nerves with his cloying bravado, and honestly, his delivery on that song probably could have been done better by someone else.

Obviously I meant another rapper circa 1988, Mr. Smarty-pants. ;Þ

Also, does this thread count as an additional vote in the Stereogum: C or D thread?

these are bad things how?

over-reverence to source material is not to be encouraged, and is probably a bit rockist.

This rendition takes any and all power and meaning out of the song. It's a huge insult.

This bit reminds me of Pfork frothing at the mouth re: Northern State not knowing about hip-hop history, and is equally silly.

Either way, this song SUXX0R U ALL R GAY

I was just going to post about how lots of people on this thread seem to think that pretty folksiness and anger are mutually exclusive, which they're not. I think she's more intent on conveying sadness rather than anger though, at the same time as strength, and she does that very well.

Because she's treading dangerously close to minstrelsy. I didn't mean uncomfortable and inappropriate in a "wow, she's really pushing the envelope" type way, because she's not. This kind of cover song is ancient news by this point. It's hacky, really.

The notion that "only black people should cover black people's songs" is obviously absurd. I'm speaking about context.
When Nina Gordon plays this song, what's telegraphed is "revel in the disparity between a white, female, folky singer singing lyrics written by young black men from an at-the-time unheard of city where violence is prevelant, police brutality is common, misogyny is the norm, etc. etc. etc." You have to assume that you are meant to respond to this contrast. Because you CAN'T respond to the song itself as it's performed here: It's completely stripped of the context that made it so powerful. She hasn't made the song hers, she's exploited it for something resembling a laugh or a raised eyebrow.
And she didn't do it with any panache or originality, either (seriously, that "Boyz N the Hood" cover that's been referenced, by Dynamite Hack or whatever, is the exact same thing as this, and also clumsy and thoughtless).

But it's not such a contrast. White women experiencing violence, police brutality and misogyny? Check, check, check. The contrast is less in the context and emotion conveyed in this version than in the musical style.

Hey, you and stanley crouch agree on something! Oh wait, you were talking about nina, not gangsta rap.

Nina Gordon can't be betraying "Straight Outta Compton"'s original meaning because it never had 1 fixed original meaning. This undermines the irony arguments too, because the song was ironic when it was written. Some people seem to forget that, amongst other qualities, most Hip Hop is funny as fuck.

Geez, Mark. (And Ben!) This isn't the end times. What the hell is wrong w/ Nina Gordon interpreting this song and finding another way to spin it (thank you Lex!), as is common throughout the history of popular music? And don't give me nonsense about the song's original power or "re-interpreting black anger" or lord knows what other culture shock y'all are going through - a song is a song is a song. The fact that you're unable to divorce the song from its point of origin and its originator isn't the song's fault, so stop trying to make it sound like that.

(Somewhere in Bizarro World, folks are posting to Me Love Music about this song, saying stuff like, "Me happy someone rescue rap music from evil man and make rap pretty with melody and guitar.")

it kinda sounds like something that would be on a National Lampoon record in the early 90s had they existed then, though more straight faced.

What is clever about it? Every high school talent show Ive ever been to had an act of some kid doing rap covers accoustically.

I'm off to check out the Cinderella cover with not-so-high hopes. "Fallin' Apart at the Seams" would have been a wicked choice.

you say "a song is a song is a song" - i'm curious if you feel the same way about language? i realize that we're getting dangerously close to the vice mag debate territory, but i'm afraid that my objections with the gordon track come from the same places.

My bad.

What about when CCR covers "Cotton Fields"? What about white guys who frequent hiphop shows? What about when Ben Kingsley portrays Gandhi in a movie? Are all these things outrageous too?

I don't believe that only some are "entitled" to certain experiences (e.g. hoodlife), and those people are the sole proprietors of any language and dialogue that stems from such experiences. As a common race, we can understand and empathize with other humans. And I understand it sounds ridiculous for a folkie doing an NWA cover, but not too long ago it was skinny white British guys like the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and Led Zeppelin who were playing Robert Johnson and Rev. Gary Davis covers. And where did they get their muse from? Sure as fuck not from getting lynched in Mississippi. What right did they have to do those songs?-- and not just do them, but also build on their themes and make hundreds of albums of them? Empathy. A shared bond from being human. That gives them the right.

Is this song parody? Who knows? All I'm saying is that parody or not, it communicates the idea that these two divergent perspectives (Nina Gordon, Ice Cube) co-exist on planet Earth simultaneously; in fact, perhaps that's the thing that causes us all to respond to this with so much gusto. Some of us see it as an affront for one person to champion their ghetto lifestyle so passionately only to see someone else mimick it so (ostensibly) thoughtlessly; some of us think that the apparent cry for help exhibited in the lyrics is being exploited for humor value; some of us think that it's a good song, so who cares? ; others think that a valuable message is being conveyed through the odd juxtaposition.

Regardless, one thing is easily and effectively communicated by this song: there is a huge disparity in the living standards and lifestyles of different people in the world. Is it so bad for us to be aware of this? And, furthermore, is it only acceptable for the underpriviledged to make this statement? Aren't the priviledged also entitled to the same statement?

What is clever about it? Every high school talent show Ive ever been to had an act of some kid doing rap covers accoustically.

I referring to good cover versions in general, although for this one, "stylistic overhaul" should be emphasized more than "clever".

For me personally, I will always have a weak spot for people covering brash, "Wall Of Sound"-choked tracks by stripping them down to acoustic simplicity.

-- noodle vague (noodle_vagu...), January 20th, 2005.

jeez... would you relax?

I never really thought about it after my initial reaction which was "Jesus Christ, this sucks."

My main point being: we don't know why Nina covered "Straight Outta Compton", or just the first verse thereof. And we don't have a right to know why. But there it is.

I'm with Anthony on this one, even though my opinion on the song still stands.

That's called liberal guilt; and I say that as a stone cold liberal myself. It only takes one listen of "Boyz in tha Hood" or "Straight Outta Compton" to realize that NWA often brag about recklessly causing suffering-- in fact, it forms the backbone of most of their shit. It's a bit harder to feel sympathy for that mentality, which is why we are all prone to describing these songs as 'ironic' when a white person covers them; perhaps the original lyrics are so over-the-top and ostensibly describe a world most of us are so unfamiliar with that we are unable to pick up on the ridiculousness in the original lyrics. If Nina Gordon had covered Bob Marley's equally troubled, but more peaceable "Redemption Song" nobody would be complaining about 'irony.'

also, kid606's version of "straight outta compton" is incredible. make of that what you will.

Huh?

"would you guys be this outraged if The Kids Of Widney High did a cover of "Straight Outta Compton"? What about Dismemberment Plan, had they still been around? Kottonmouth Kings? Kid 606?"

Yes, Yes, and Yes, if they were as thoughtless and ugly as this one. (Kid 606 is irrelevant - he didn't cover the song so much as mess with the tape and remix it). (X-POST)

Look, the song is politically charged, and she must recognize that.
Tori Amos' cover of the Eminem song (which was also ear murder) was presented with some context! She made it very clear with that album that she was playing a role in each of the songs she was singing.

Nina Gordon has not done that. ** She has posted an MP3 where she says "Niggers" several times in a song. ** She offers no explanation or context, and the song itself smacks of "wacky contrast between pretty-voiced girl singing outrageous, profane things hilarity."

Yep, it's fucking offensive.

"Wouldn't it be funny if I covered this song from another genre?"

Next time anyone hears that, say NO.

How do you know she was trying to be funny? (if she says so on her site, then I'll stand corrected.)

Let's not get angry on Ice Cube's behalf; I'm sure he'll retaliate with some beef song... oh wait, he's making emasculated children's movies now.

x-post. She says "niggers" because those are the lyrics. Are cover versions all supposed to come with signed affidavits explaining their intent? The "wacky contrast" thing is in your head. Why couldn't it be a straight reading of a song she likes? Your obvious disdain for the artist stops you listening beyond the words. NWA are political in a sense so loose that it's virtually meaningless.

Also, I find nothing offensive about it otherwise. The n-word thing is not what should be criticized here.

[massive xposts]

donut, I'm not talking about mash-ups. I'm talking about acoustic covers of electronic and rap tracks which are just the most cloying thing known to man. They're supposedly "clever" and "reveal" the hidden qualities of the "real" song blah blah vomit.
-- Spencer Chow (spencercho...), January 20th, 2005.

mark, I am totally playfully muckraking here. Obviously, a lot of people don't like the cover of the song in question. Fine. I'm just amused by all the quasi-political baggage that everyone is emptying onto the whole issue, when other artists whose covers of same song we respect are on the same level, culturally/class speaking, as nina gordon.

Spencer, why are acoustic covers of hip hop/electronic songs automatically "clever" or "oooh, revealing"? Maybe someone just likes the song, and covers it, you know?

I could care less for the "Bizarre Love Traingle" cover. But I never once though "Oh, they're just trying to cover it in a different style to stand out or something". How come nobody was equally outraged on a college radio level when Poi Dog Pondering did the same thing with NO's "Love Vigilantes"?

* which, for the record, is hardly 'outrage'.

why can't a straight reading of poetry include the original words?

well, context is key here, and the lines between the contexts are very blurry and up for vastly different interpretations for each, I'll agree. Had this been an original song where she used the n-word, I would be far more suspicious and likely offended, I admit. but since we all know she is covering a song, she's using the n-word because the original song used it. if she changed the n-words, I would personally be more offended, because then she would be projecting her personal politics into the cover, whether PC or not. And surely, that would have caused FAR more outrage in this thread if she had done that than leaving the n-words in there.

What are the Stephen Malkmus or Stephin Merritt rap covers?

Malkmus doesn't need covers, he's got ironic rap originals under his belt (At Home With The Groovebox to thread)

~ Horseshit. I like and own albums by both NWA and Veruca Salt.

"mark, when you're rapping along to something at home, do you sound a bleep or substitute an inoffensive word such as "knitter"?
-- noodle vague (noodle_vagu...), January 20th, 2005 1:43 PM."

~ No, but then again, I don't post MP3s of myself using potentially touchy language on websites with no explanation.

"and come to think of it, now that he's a rich rapper and making multimillion dollar movies, Ice Cube himself is not even entitled to do that song anymore, as it no longer represents his situation. How does that sound?
-- King Kobra (doctorduc...), January 20th, 2005 1:16 PM."

~ Like the makings of an irrelevant and ridiculous straw man.

"NWA are political in a sense so loose that it's virtually meaningless."

~ Maybe you weren't around when "Fuck the Police" was being editorialized on throughout the media?

No problem. I'm just a little mystified (in general with listeners, not just you, Spencer) when projections are placed upon the motives of the artist for covering a song in a style that happens to be in a completely different genre, when the listeners don't really know what the motives for covering the song were/are. That issue just never phased me and still never phases me. If i like the cover, i like it. If I don't, I don't. And that's where I leave it.

What about Pavement's cover of The Fall's "The Classical" and the elimination of said n-word in the cover? Was that a travesty? Or a smart move?

[xposts galore]

dc... At some point in the near future you should bring your best Kid of Widney High impersonation to my studio, and we will record this. The b-side will be our Faux Kids of Widney High cover of the Chili Peppers' "Suck My Kiss."

We will make a mint selling these as downloadable tracks online!

Maybe she only did the first verse cuz it's the most 'powerful' (ie, memorable) one? I mean, the Kid 606 remix is also only the Ice Cube verse, nobody complained aboot that (I actually preferred it that way, cuz I didn't hafta hear him ruin the whole song). (xpost)

No. It's a slightly different word, spelled and pronounced differently.

THE PROBLEM is that she is pronouncing the word as 'Niggers'. Which is something that no one does without getting looked at funny, regardless of whichever race you happen to be. The fact that she's white and saying this makes me flinch.

But you do realize that Dre was strapped with gats when you were cuddlin' a Cabbage Patch, right?

I think you mean "wearing eyeliner"

Context, once again. Look at those list of songs.. they all seem to be songs that were big in the year 1988, 89, or 1990 or so... Skid Row? Cinderella? NWA? All huge in a very small time period. To me, I think she just chose songs she remembered from a certain time in her life... I don't know how old she is, but it must have been "a time" for her, or something. So, her choosing to cover NWA seems to (and I stress "seems to") stem from that moreso than "I'm going to be controversial, fuck yeah, niggaz!". Then again, I don't know. You don't know. She may have had the worst motives for covering the song. The point is..: we.. don't... know. So, some of us will assume the worst, some of us will be suspicious, and some of us will not be so suspicious. I'm in the latter category. I guess you're in the middle category.

I have absolutely no concern about what her intentions were to cover the song. The end result is the problem and I've explained why enough I think.

Of course you don't have any concerns about it, because you don't know her intentions (unless you personally know her, which I'm guessing you don't :) ). But I'm just musing on how listeners in general (and I used to be guilty of this, too) listen to the "end results" -- a listener's first listen of a cover -- and then often automatically make assumptions about the motives for covering the song that go beyond "well, we, uh, like the song." Not singling you out, Spencer.. a lot of people do that, but I don't. Maybe I'm just the anomaly here.

xpost?

uhm no. don't make me post pictures of Dre's days in the World Class Wrecking Cru. None of NWA were actual hardcore "gangster" types, with the debatable exception of Eazy, who was a low-level coke dealer.

Okay, I maybe over-identified with Manowar when I was 14.

Nah, I know... My comment is a paraphrase of a lyric on the second Chronic, wherein Dre claims exactly what I've stated.

"Love Vigilantes" has been covered several different times by folk-inclined people for, as best as can be told, pretty much the reasons outlined. The Oyster Band cover comes to mind.

I do! And I think this cover is awful too!

Generalizations make me wanna honour the fire. EAT STEEL, MAGGOTS!

Well, I'm not sure that's what Spencer was exactly saying, actually. Furthermore, I would never assume any acoustic cover of an electronic/hip hop song would be motivated to "validate" the song for people who dislike electronic/hip hop music... unless the artist explicitly stated so, and I've never heard about any artist who has said or admitted that.

But I do agree there are listeners out there who have to have such covers validated for them, no doubt. But is it fair to blame the artists for that?

Similarly, there are people who have to have acoustic/classic rock songs "validated" for them with electronic/hip hop treatments too.

2001, yo! Dizaaaamn!

I like it for completely different reasons than the original Chronic. It has it's moments. The line I quoted is one of the finer ones.

http://www.yopi.de/images/prod_pics/45/e/45414.jpg

Hrm. Well in that case Phish goes back down to zero for me, so I'm glad to be wrong about that. Dunno where I got the misinformation though.

The only thing that makes me happy about Phish is that Trey is the reason I got $300 for an original late 70s grey Ross Compressor pedal.

Phish have performed concerts where they play some pretty awesome albums from beginning to end, such as Remain in Light and Loaded.

There's a nice big thread in there about the Straight Outta Compton cover, surprise surprise. Maybe there will be an explanation in there from Nina herself.

Roger, copy. I'm goin' in.

(actually not literally)

xp

Muthafucka sure acts like it.

"40 Minutes later and its still on loop. This rocks Nina !!"

"yowza. she drops the n-bomb! me likey anyway."

"hahaha

this is the most rediculous thing I ever heard

sounds nothing like my version of straight outta compton which I thought was pretty rediculous, myself"

"that cracked Tim and i up!!!

we loves it!
thanks, Nina, mark and may for hooking us up yo

laters"

"LMAO that was hilarious. I love you Nina. :D"

"That was great. It's funny to hear Nina say motherfucker so sweetly, almost like it's a compliment."

"That was great! Thanks Nina

Now if we could just get Ice Cube to do Horses in the City :)

Cheers"

"Does no one else here think it's weird for a white girl from chicago to be singing "the n-word"; to be taking a song that was/is revolutionary and making a joke of it?

I've been a fan of Nina Gordon's from the way early veruca salt days - her voice and lyrics are awesome. But I don't understand how anyone can drop a cover like this with no explanation other than it's a christmas gift. It seems like she wants her fans to take it like they've been taking it - ooh that's so funny! Well, that makes me angry. It wasn't a song that was hers to take.

If she was trying to make some artistic statement about how we listen to songs from black and white artists, or about the political relevance of these words, or something that I'm not getting, I wish she had written about that, or spoken about it in an interview. If she has, sorry for the asumptions, please help me out and point me in that direction.

If on the other hand, her/other's response is "hey, take a joke, it's not a political statement, it's just ironic" then my response is, white people always assume that they can take/take over/corrupt anything they want to. They assume that it's okay to say the n-word because blacks do, they assume that it's okay to make a joke out of anything. News flash: it's 2005 and its time for whites to understand that the world is not only their oyster. Time to be respectful."

"dude calm down. freedom of speech works both ways you know. i don't use the n word and i don't like for anyone to use it, but i don't think this cover was done out of anything more than fun. i once covered nsync's "girlfriend" no political statement there..."

"She covered it for a Bring the Rock show at Largo this past summer. Now, for people like you who don't know, Bring the Rock is a comedy show, where comedians relate humorous anecdotes to specifically themed genres of music, songs, etc. Nina is a member of the band that plays these songs for the comedians every month or so, and it just so happens that Nina was assigned to cover "Straight Outta Compton," and it served its purpose: to be HILARIOUS.

Apparently, the song was so well received at this show, that she planned to record her cover and share it as a special treat for her fans.

Sorry if you're offended, "wtf." And as for SEIZEPRODUCTIONS... thanks for nothing. You made the most annoying kind of rebuttal ever."

"wtf... the group was called niggas with attitude. get a grip. it's the name of the group. if ice cube didn't want white people to ever use the word, it wouldn't be in the name of his group.

nina's cover is funny. it's not a political statement. not everything needs to be political. now go listen to the other bring the rock songs and lighten up."

"Before we go crazy about covering a revolutionary song in a joking matter let us first recall why this is a revolutionary song. NWA brought rap to the foreground of white America, its very purpose was to make a song about how it is and make white America largely uncomfortable. The song is famous more for being famous than actual content.

As for the word's general usage, context is a major factor. Saying it during a NWA song is within context, where as censoring it would be totally against the concept of the entire song. It is a more true to its roots cover by fully expressing why this song is this song. If Nina would have sang "neighbors" or something instead, none of us would be brave enough to comment on the missing element of the song, and that is sad. I guarantee nobody here would have made a post asking why the n-word was omitted, but we would have wondered and we would probably as soon forget about the song. It's really the only way it works.

Finally, this song is not packaged for mass release or anything and is accessible by only a few hundred (at most) people who frequent this website. Sure it's availible for anyone who might find there way here, but I'm going to bet that there are not too many of those. The song is clearly marked, and you know exactly what you're getting when you click on it. If you're that easily offended you shouldn't listen to it.

Ulitimately, it's Nina's site, and if she wants to assoicate herself with her version of the song it's her perogative, as she is the only one to gain or lose from it."

"You know, the n-word ('cause I guess none of us are as brave to say it), doesn't hold the same negative connotation that it did years ago. There are exceptions of course, I'm just saying generally. Its use in rap and hip hop music is responsible for changing its definition. I'm not saying that it's a nice word to call anyone, but it's only a word. Nina didn't mean anything by covering that song. I don't think she ever needs to do interviews explaining the songs she covers. It would be like her admitting she's doing something bad, which she's not.

Don't get so defensive. Not everything white people do is a slur against black people. I'm not racist, I just can't stand when people can't take a joke without getting so mixed up in the political and racial views of it. It's a joke, nothing more. Get over it.

By saying that it's "weird" for a "white girl" to cover this song, you are further segregating black from white. Do
you even realize that it's 2005? The worlds changing, buddy, but not if you keep holding it back.

By the way, I'm white and I don't think that the world is my oyster? Any white people here think that?"

"Thank you all for making my point for me - it's the very fact that it IS a joke that is so offensive.

And I'm sorry, just because blacks have reclaimed the word, doesn't mean it's okay for whites to use it, especially in a joke."

"It's your own opinion that it's offensive. If Nina didn't mean the song as a joke would you still think it was so offensive? I bet you would."

"it'd be much easier to lump us all together in one catagory - like...i don't know, "people" or "human" - then to keep finding colors, beliefs, and abnormalities (aaahahaha) in which to seperate us all by.

can't we all just be one large group of people? together?

oh. except for the swedes. they're different."

"if it wasnt for this song i wouldnt have been here now,
You have an amazing talent nina"

"Love this song , and have no problem with any part of it, as much as love th original and the Kid606 version...and it is the reason I am here, and heard of Nina Gordon (although I had heard of Veruca Salt WAAAAY back i the day).

...and if you think NWA were always serious in their work and intentions, well maybe Ice Cube should come and put a "cap in yo ass" cos they weren't. I'm sure they'd find this SO funny...and even funnier you were stressed about it.

It IS in the lyric of the song here, so it is valid...IMO Censoring it would be WAY worse as that's definitely one of the things NWA and PE and co. were against politically at the time and had to fight for.

Have any of you heard of Richard Cheese doing lounge covers of 'Shake Yo Ass' or 'Baby Got Back' or Rage Against the Machine....he was doing the same thing, and those were officially released and I bet those artists didn't go 'oh you changed my political intent!' - most covers change the feel totally, and the best ones like this bring a new aspect, or feel, like Johnny Cash did.

Anyway my main reason for posting here is that I'd love to play this cover on my podcast http://www.mutantpop.net/radioclash/ and share it with my listeners, but I want to get official permission to do so - is that possible?

It's freely out there on the internet but didn't want to assume it's 'ok'.

I can't see any contact info on the site...anyone know how I can contact the powers that can answer that?

cheers"

And I ended the thread myself by responding:

"Is there an official word about the cover from Nina herself about why she chose to cover the song? From the posts here, it seems there's a consensus that it was done for humorous purposes. But I just wanted to see if there was an "official word", so to speak, given the controversy surrounding it.

Mind you, Nina doesn't HAVE to provide an answer. That's up to her to say or not say. Just asking."

...

But it seems like her fans pretty much think it was done for humor. The key post above is the one from a fan that saw her perform the song live at a Bring The Rock show, which is supposed to be a comedy show. So, unless that fan is severely misinformed about the purpose of the show, it seems the cover was done to be funny. So, at this point, my respect for Nina and her (as I see them) intentions has taken quite a dip.

Still want to hear from Nina herself about this, and we and her fans may be yet surprised, but at this point, I doubt it now.

So, they it iz! HA HA HA, "GANGSTA RAP!"

ooooh big xpost nevermind.

So...she isn't even FROM Compton? >=o

"Ballsy. Stupid, but ballsy."

Use other crutches please.

"yowza. she drops the n-bomb! me likey anyway."

Whenever a tense race related thread ever erupts again on ILE, I'll just drop this little bomb in there and run away.

"dude calm down. freedom of speech works both ways you know. i don't use the n word and i don't like for anyone to use it, but i don't think this cover was done out of anything more than fun. i once covered nsync's "girlfriend" no political statement there..."

I think Martin already mentioned this one. No explanation needed really.

"wtf... the group was called niggas with attitude. get a grip. it's the name of the group. if ice cube didn't want white people to ever use the word, it wouldn't be in the name of his group. [...]"

haha, I love the assumption that people name their songs or groups certain things with the intention of hoping white people use the words later.

"if it wasnt for this song i wouldnt have been here now, You have an amazing talent nina"

OK, who's the person in this thread who went to the forum to confess their love? Mark? Spencer? Ned? Heavens, come on now, don't be shy! ;-)

The original just means too much to me!

Hearing "Bizarre Love Triangle" and "Blue Monday" on top 40 radio in San Diego in 1986 when a callow teen: "Whoa, what is this?"

Hearing That Cover Version: "ARRGGGGH."

Pointless, but not as irritating, not even as irritating as the bit from 24 Hour Party People.

What's kinda funny about that is that said version never existed -- in otherwards, it was never written and performed that way and then the beats were added. It was a rhythm track first, and then built up from there!

It's worse than the other semi-ironic rap covers I can think of - "Gin and Juice" by the Gourds, "Boyz in the Hood" mentioned several times, the Supersuckers cover of "Dead Homiez." The former pair the good-natured vibes of the originals and translate it to their style ("Gin and Juice" also works really well a bluegrassy rave-up in itself, change a few lyrics an you could never guess that Snoop did it first), whatever ironic humor their audience found. They both actually put some effort into their readings of the song. The Supersuckers cover was played straight, from what I remember, and has no elements of "oooh, look the indie-rockers said something naughty," given their style ("She's My Bitch," "Ron's Got The Cocaine" etc.).

But this is just incredibly lazy and disrespectful to the original song and artist.

Though I've refrained from being serious on this thread (except when I said Tori Amos' cover album was a piece of shit), I completely agree with this and all of milo's comment. There's just no indication whatsoever that she's doing this cover because of any kind of love for original song. It really does smack of "Oooh this will make the audience laugh."

Just a couple of things: one, the word that sprang to mind most readily for me was "absurdist" - as in, not serious, nor funny nor ironic but something that recognises its own position in the grand scheme of things. I know nothing about Nina Gordon other than she's written the occasional decent pop-punk tune over the last decade or so, but I credit her with enough intelligence to vaguely grasp her own social context.

Secondly, I post to I think four messageboards and read a couple of others regularly and this song has been brought up on all but one of them. This is coming up for more publicity than she has had in the last seven or eight years, right?

I would think it fairly humorous I think if it weren't a somewhat cliche joke. I'm not offended by it at all. Just "meh."

None of those words are enemies in my world except for "novelty" when it's used to describe music that is actually "thought-provoking" or "effective." (See also any of my rants in response to people referring to TMBG as a "novelty" band.)

Poly, I doubt you're reading too much into the Supersuckers take on their dead homies. I'm sure the parallel is not lost on them regardless of their original logic in choosing to cover the song.

If Nina Gordon had covered Bob Marley's equally troubled, but more peaceable "Redemption Song" nobody would be complaining about 'irony.'

She doesn't need to cover "Redemption Song," there's enough guys doing it every day in the NYC subway, thank you very much.

Mash-up artists should, by logic of the outrage of this cover, be completely railed as offensive then, because they often misappropriate gangsta culture by ripping the lyrics from their intended musical content and put them over non-gangsta contexts. Fuckers.

Mash-up artists should be completely railed as offensive because they're so fucking boring.

Fleetwood Mac are an offense unto themselves, I fail to see how DMX could ruin it for them.

I just strongly disliked the way they portrayed the group's musical progression in the film.

If you play it too straight then people accuse you of "not having any right to sing it, because you can't feel the emotions/connect with the meaning/understand the song" and if you be funny and ironic then you're not giving the fucking touchstone the respect it deserves.

Fuck sacred cows, it sounds nice, get over it people.
(That goes for Nina's Compton and Frente's BLT)

Fuck sacred cows, it sounds nice, get over it people.

No. It doesn't. It sounds mediocre and bland.

You realize you're quoting a key line in the miserable 70s TV movie Superdome. (Which I only know thanks to MST3K.)

ha ha ha, Frente did Got Your Money tonight on their reunion tour. (chorus only, and an interpolation. but still!)

If Nina Gordon had done a half-assed, disrespectful version of Bob Marley a lot more enlightened, liberal white people would be upset.

those white girls sure should know their place, and not disrespect any men.

I find it very funny that people are up in arms about Nina's 'language' on this when probably everyone on this thread (inc. me) owns a rap album with the word 'faggot' used unironically, and either doesn't care about it or actively defends it. I would think that in terms of offence Nina saying 'nigger' is similar to Ghostface saying 'faggot' (I have no problem with either).

carry on.

Ah, yes. "Well, that's sexist!!!!" My reference was to Nina Gordon - not because she was the one who covered NWA, but because she is my stand-in for all white women on Earth. When I think 'woman,' I think 'washed-up alt-rock star.'

I find it very funny that people are up in arms about Nina's 'language'
Good thing I didn't refer to her 'language,' eh?

If Nina Gordon had showed even a tiny amount of passion for or interest in her source material, even if her song sucked, OK. But she didn't. She went for the cheap, lazy gag that's been done a million times before. And she purposely chose a genre, act and a song that continues to merit laughter and derision from her fan demographic, material and context laden with racial overtones.

It's not my fault she opened herself up to questions of unconscious racism. Maybe if her version wasn't stilted and boring, it wouldn't have come up.

Nobody gets up in arms when someone does a lazy cover of a rock song. Why is NWA entitled to more "respect" just because they're a hiphop group?

I'm pissed when my time gets wasted if it sucks.

The singer out of Veruca Salt has a fan demographic? Fuck!

(This post brought to you by a scratched-up, unplayable copy of The Cooler and a fucking headache.)

Can we get a remix with two other gals taking Ren and Eazy-E's lyrics? Someone way up there gave Nellie McKay a shout, that'd work for one of 'em.

Why is NWA entitled to more "respect" just because they're a hiphop group?
Strawman. No one said they're deserving of "more 'respect'" - respect, period.

What's unhealthy is all these exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!

Maybe she's got a new album coming out or was dropped by her label and is looking for another one.

"Nina Gordon, who?", many of us would've said previously. Now we've all gotten a big 300+ post reminder that she exists. Her work here is done.

"Nina Gordon, who?", many of us would've said previously. Now we've all gotten a big 300+ post reminder that she exists

i'm sure that argument will weigh a lot with sony.

This video just reinforces how ridiculous and over-the-top the lyrics are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6D5xpCgETk

That's actually pretty funny.

The police in the video are more YMCA than LAPD.

Weird, this song spontaneously got stuck in my head when this thread got bumped.

90s West Coast rappers seem to have all gotten their video white people from the same low-grade casting agency.

haha, classic thread

more like "straight into used bin" amirite?

I was kinda shocked the original post was 5 years old...some of this read v. much like in the wake of the whole post-CocoRosie N-word discussion--I'm surprised it was not mentioned at all in there, though by all accounts I guess that just measures how forgettable it was...

For future reference:

The Canonical List of Overheated ILM Race Relation Threads

White musicians and "artistic" use of the N-word: A Discussion and Social History

^the thread I wz referring to

but yeah I prolley should read entire thread...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6Oej7K469I

lol, straight outta compton was 80s!

I was in a coffee shop that was playing what seemed to be an entire compilation of this stuff, mostly acoustic covers of 80s hits -- time after time, I wanna dance with somebody, I forget what else, wide variety of styles all collapsed into that same sort of weepy, sort of sultry but not actually sexy zone, and it occurred to me that this genre is basically the modern equivalent of muzak -- taking a bunch of disparate songs, flattening them, sucking out any specific emotional content and re-constituting them as a consistent musical paste.

Like, "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" is all about getting energized and chasing your blues away, doing it as a melancholy song is so point missing and dull, and doing Time After Time, a legitimately heartbreaking song, at that same emotional level is equally point-missing.

well put

pretty strange to read this thread in 2018

Not exactly the same thing, but there’s this really dreary Sia-esque cover of “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” that I keep hearing snippets of on TV (maybe it’s the theme to some show?). Perhaps this doesn’t miss the point nearly as much as that Whitney cover you’re talking about, but at least the Tears For Fears song had an actual pulse.

pretty strange to read this thread in 2018

― ? (seandalai), Sunday, January 28, 2018 5:31 PM

Agreed. Shakey with pretty much the only right take way back when.

Welp, up to a point: "I couldn't care less about the language/cultural baggage issues people are harping on."

this is a thing that's happening now (4 years old but they're a lot more popular now)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibceUSL0lPU

Wow this thread. I would like to hear from the 2005 posters, have you changed your minds in the last 13 years or are you still willing to defend this?

I enjoyed two listens to the Nina Gordon 13 years ago, but Neanderthal's link there is an absolute warcrime

Holy shit this thread is insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY3jOkM3JFY

i saw the Skivvies live. they're Broadway performers with pretty great pedigree, Lauren Molina played Ms Lovett in Sweeney Todd on Broadway. when the set was just them doing pop/cabaret-type numbers it was fun. the shit like Kelis's "Milkshake" and other "lol yuk yuk we're doing hip hop in hoedown style" numbers made me seek the nearest exit.

ooooh here we go, this is what this thread needs for 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlSmsKJq3CI

still otm about the ignition cover though

taking a bunch of disparate songs, flattening them, sucking out any specific emotional content and re-constituting them as a consistent musical paste

the generic condensation of the experience of a streaming playlist, designed for tastefully inoffensive coffeeshop audio