It's a personal thing for me, this album, because it was the first New Order album I bought. It had "Bizarre Love Triangle" on it, there wasn't any way I was not going to buy it. While I think I bought Substance shortly thereafter -- and within a year's time Technique was out -- it was the first time I'd heard New Order all at once, as it were.
From a distance, listening to it again now, what's surprising to me is how much I must have taken in from it without my fully being aware of it at all at the time, and not just simply about the band in general. There's a lot of what made New Order New Order here, of course, but it also fits into so many different strands and crosses over into other ways and approaches around music, at least as I've become more familiar with it -- and yet at the same time it also stands out all the more strongly and uniquely. Really, I think this is like little else I've heard in a way -- it's that much on its own.
I say that even though "Paradise" almost starts out stereotypically in some eyes -- "Hey, isn't that a drum machine and synth bass? Oh, right, eighties crap." Yeah, thanks. But then Bernard's voice comes in and what the hey? It's this weird, understated mournful flat thing initially except then he suddenly slips into this cascade of "I want you, I want you, I need you, I need you" over his own "La la la la la" moments and what seems simplicity itself -- or too simplistic -- becomes this emotional cry, restrained and quavering but still to the heart. There's That Peter Hook bass snaking beneath it all, suddenly stepping more to the fore on the break, another chorus and then it's back to drums and synth bass and then back again for Hook and the band to find what they do so ridiculously well -- mantras. Perfect compact mantras, masters of repetition and quiet variation, in this case fading away.
Making the speaker-scanning kick to "Weirdo" that much of a wake-up. What in the world did I think of this when I first heard it? Nothing could have been so specific and precisely, not quite like that and not quite so open and able to work the technological possibilities of stereo in that way. Perhaps that sounds strange but at the time I had heard nothing quite like it and even now it's a *strange* way to start a song, especially once that turns into one of those 'is it New Order or is it the Cure or is it both' rushed quick-electric-scrabble-from-Bernard and loping and lovely Hook basslines and Steven Morris's drums seemingly everywhere even when they're not. The mix is that full somehow and when the mantra of this song surfaces on the instrumental coda, the bass now really standing to the fore while everything slots into place around it, you can hear rock-not-being-ROCK, it's like -- "Wait, hold on, how come all these other guitar/bass/drums line-ups can't sound like this, so fresh and alive?" I don't get it (then and now).
And then "As It Was When It Was." Okay, how many smug motherfuckers trashed NO and more like them for being 'soulless synth music' without actually listening to the music and how many didn't realize this was a freakin' folk song? And not like "Love Vigilantes" on Low-life, this is something that various unplugged combos have yet to get around to doing something with (and Frente! would have seized up at the idea because they had been FUCKING TRUMPED already with this number). Because it's still clearly a New Order song, the melodic bass, that strong but not overbearing beat and rush and clatter (when everything rocks out a bit more then it becomes the Wedding Present but it's MORE than the Wedding Present ever did and I like them!) and then there's that one despairingly but not mopily sung bit where Bernard says "I always thought/We'd get along like a house on fire." Yow. THAT'S a line.
In retrospect the opening part of "Broken Promise" is sorta like the start of "Isolation," but what's a little self-plagiarism between friends, and I hadn't heard Closer at that point. Arguably at this point the album seems to have found formula, the lower-key singing in the verse, the step up to a higher register in the chorus, the quick propulsion heralded by most of the earlier songs, but it swings so well, Bernard conversational in apology and confusion and then delivering, yup, another anti-solo solo, my goodness can he find mood in the most basic of chord changes. It all just sounds so GOOD -- and they produced it themselves with Michael Johnson engineering. Why'd they keep hanging around with Stephen Hague again?
Ah, "Way of Life." Now THAT's a start to a song: feedback tone, huge rumbling drums, a descending bass line and we're off to the races. The basic blend and balance is the same as the album's established but this time around Bernard is more 'up' with his voice from the start and everything is a bit like a skip down the lane if you let it -- so the change on the chorus is inspired, go for a direct rather than a contrasting overdub and he sounds so gentle almost, even though again he's essentially lashing out at somebody for screwing something up. But it's delivered like a gentle kiss and the non-solo really IS a solo this time and it's a skybound motherfucker, aspirational, rising up, slipping into one of Hook's honest to god lowest bass rumbles ever, Morris just keeping the time efficiently and then we're all back again. Simple moments, simple songs but it all combines and recombines, and again, it's like...why NOT rock this way, with such grace and power all at once? So apparently effortless, like watching a massive airplane take off into the sunset with no extraneous noise and no exhaust.
"Bizarre Love Triangle," you have to understand, was my introduction to New Order -- that and "Blue Monday" shortly thereafter, but "Bizarre Love Triangle" was on top 40 radio in my neck of the woods and it's tangled up with so many things it's hard to separate it out now, but what's interesting in context of this album is that all of a sudden Gillian Gilbert turns up with the keyboards and WOW! That swirling up-and-down progression before the chorus, the overload of string/tone/bells/whatever on the chorus itself turning it into a soundtrack for indeed, falling through the air (Longo knew what he was doing with the video), even the orchestral stabs! Nothing more eighties than that perhaps but how it slots in, so nice. And everything blends together and Bernard's the regretful voice at the center of it all (I think Bernard's one of the closest things to a hero I'll have in music because, after all, he was never *supposed* to be the vocalist, he ended up being one, he's not a singer as such and he is just perfectly RIGHT for what's going on).
"All Day Long" could have been a Suzanne Vega song under another guise but I can't remember if she ever created something quite so gently danceable ("Left of Center" I suppose, in a 'well, maybe' way). So there's the serious verses and then the lights are ON! Another sparkling circular keyboard part, Hook's bass, it's like the floodlights opened up. Bernard gets the message across, implicitly denies the politicization of arguments in music (in a way) and then the band takes over. Now this is a treat, because consider, you've got Hook getting a showcase for the bass, then Gilbert gets this stately string synth part like a royal progression, then Bernard's in with the twangy guitar that's, I dunno, Hank Peters slowed down via Morricone, Gilbert gets *another* beautiful orchestration to play around with, and then everything completely recombines into the extended ending. Just lovely. And the fact that Morris is apparently relying on drum programs throughout would have pissed some people off because apparently it wasn't real! Hey fuckfaces, he's the drummer, let him do what he wants, he's better on the machine than you are with the real thing! Sorry, venting.
"Angel Dust" is the one song I completely forget had any lyrics to it before I listened to it, so I guess it's the stumbling block. Perhaps. I mean, the introduction to it -- muzzein sample aside, if that's what it is, I think it is -- is sorta like 'exciting chase music for Sylvester Stallone cop drama 1986!' soundtracks which I admit is sorta pointless. Jan Hammer was cornering that market, let him do the job. But the flipside is that this is the extension of "Confusion" and similar songs before ACIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIED changed everything MAN and as such sorta works here as another experimentation in the form, though without Arthur Baker around. Some good moments and bits, even a percussion break from Morris. Maybe not quite the best song.
"Every Little Counts" though is something else. I mean, sure, NOW I hear it and I'm all, "Ah right, 'Heroin' by the Velvets, of course." Except it isn't because Lou would have never kept in a bit of himself fluffing the opening line and laughing and continuing on, you can hear the smile as he sings. Now that's a treat, and of course the song just builds up and gets more and more majestic, it's not a rise and fall like the Velvets, it's more this continuation with pauses that gets more and more involved, second by second, into that final extended noisebit (me at 16: "What the FUCK?") and then the record scratches (but I bought this on CD!) and there's something else for a second (any guesses?) and then it's over.
It's over. Damn. I'll have to play it again.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)
oh, great record!
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 27 January 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:02 (twenty years ago)
― Aerodynamic (Aerodynamic), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:03 (twenty years ago)
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)
I discovered New Order back in 1983 when I heard "Blue Monday"... (full story here, scroll down to Section 25 "Dirty Disco" piece.).. so I was fully charged when the dance mix of "Bizarre Love Triangle" was dominating L.A. radio. I RUSHED and picked up Brotherhood, and not only was the album version of the track too "rock" for me, but most of the rest of the album was even more rock for me, so I shelved it, until one day during my college days, I pulled it out, and realized how brilliant it was in the context of college rock...(hey, I was a college radio DJ, college rock was my thing then).
Now, I appreciate it on all levels. Great post, Ned.
― donut christ (donut), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:09 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:15 (twenty years ago)
that review makes me wanna play lp and buy cd
― bernard hook, Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)
We must correct this.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)
― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:35 (twenty years ago)
I fucking love brotherhood. Its tied with technique as my favorite record of theirs.
― Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 22:49 (twenty years ago)
But, Ned, I think your AMG revew is the fairest I've read. Of major critics only Christgau has ranked "Brothehood" among their very best (he ranked it their very best, I think). The rock songs are unusual, direct, and thrilling all at once. Steve's slightly off-kilter drumming on "Weirdo" and the synth orchestra on "All Day Long" are just one of many, many highlights.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:39 (twenty years ago)
I doubt the band themselves have ever said much good about "Brotherhood".
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:42 (twenty years ago)
But I didn't review this album for the AMG! Believe me, I would have loved to.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:54 (twenty years ago)
Interesting ... are you referring to the CD (I have it on vinyl)? I don't hear anything like what you described on the vinyl version.
This has always been my least favourite New Order album ... and since 2001, I have "Get Ready", so I don't need "Brotherhood" anymore :)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Thursday, 27 January 2005 23:57 (twenty years ago)
― Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:03 (twenty years ago)
As for the mix...yeah, I'm referring to the CD. I have "Low-Life" on vinyl and CD and prefer the former.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 00:28 (twenty years ago)
"I don't believe in reincarnation because I refuse to come back as a bug or a rabbit!"
"You know, you're a real 'up' person."
― Edward Bax (EdBax), Friday, 28 January 2005 04:31 (twenty years ago)
Absolutely OTM, Low-Life is dead brilliant, except that it wasn't my first New Order album or record and I'm having a hard time figuring out what might have been my first New Order record right now. Those 12"es get confusing. I'll have to think about that some more, very carefully. [writes it down on the 'to do' list, quite bothered by it, in fact]
Brotherhood? In all honesty, although I enjoyed it quite a bit AT THE TIME, it is only now significant for me for ONE SONG and ONE SONG only: "All Day Long". Did anyone say "masterpiece"? Well, they have so many that the word doesn't actually mean so much for New Order, so take it with a grain of salt.
Ceremony = Masterpiece, for example. Whoops this thread is about Brotherhood. Sorry.
"All Day Long" could have been a Suzanne Vega song
Look, I myself was a Suzanne Vega fan back in the day but let's not get tooo crazy. Nevertheless I much appreciate the rest of your glowing review of the song.
I am sick to death of "Bizarre Love Triangle" and even more so of "Blue Monday" and I think the band is too. Well, to be honest I only know they are sick of Blue Monday. But I don't have any problem with anyone who still has a thing for those songs.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 06:29 (twenty years ago)
"brotherhood" is so, so under-rated. hell, even i under-rated it at first. i got it from blackpool music library when i was 14 or 15 (late eighties, maybe just into the nineties) and thought, eew, it's all guitars and stuff. where's blue monday? where's true faith? the only thing i really loved was BLT, and even then i preferred the version i had on substance.
two days after taking the record back, i went into severe withdrawal. like you say, ned, it gets under your skin without even knowing. i went straight down the second-hand shop and picked up a copy (the copy i still have!) on vinyl, and it instantly became my second-favourite NO album of all time after "technique". i don't know how i missed it at first.
i've said this before and i'll say it again: i think it eats low-life for breakfast. low-life has more stand-out moments of OMG genius ("love vigilantes", "perfect kiss", "elegia") but "brotherhood" is a perfect whole.
anybody else noticed how the coda of "pure" by the lightning seeds is, ahem, a homage to "all day long"?
uncut - or one of the other UK mags - did a big NO special a few years ago, and i'm sure the "brotherhood" chat went something like this:
interviewer: what about brotherhood, then?barney: don't think i like that. don't remember it being any good. what's on it?interviewer: paradise, BLT, all day long, every second ...barney: fuck, that sounds like a great album. i'm going home to listen to it.
and of course when they came back and did that peel session in the late nineties, "paradise" was one of the songs. IIRC they always said they weren't happy with the production on "brotherhood" but thought it was one of their finest collections of songs. i like the way it sounds; i love the way it's the album where hooky really maxed out his chorus pedal.
"krafty", as i've said elsewhere, has a real "brotherhood" vibe about it.
this is not a loaded question at all, i promisened: did you like "get ready"? i can't remember what you've said about it elsewhere.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:02 (twenty years ago)
That was a '98 issue of Uncut, around the time they started gigging together again. That Peel Session you mentioned is AWESOME (NEW!! NEW!! NEW!! VERSION OF "ISOLATION" WOW!!!). Damn, now I'll have to dig out that issue of "Uncut" and try to remember where I've stashed the mp3's of that Peel Session ...
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:14 (twenty years ago)
[thinks]
ach, fuck work. i did two 12-hour shifts in a row earlier this week. they can hold on for another 10 minutes. [chime, whirr]. let's see if they're there ...
... wow, it takes its time booting up these days ...
right. there's an iTunes playlist called "B-sides and Unreleased, circa Get Ready". the actual MP3s aren't on the HD: i must have burned them onto a backup CD somewhere. but that should be easy to find. it would seem they're all there:
true faithisolationtouched by the hand of godatmosphereparadise
the next track after that claims to be a version of 60MPH, which IIRC is a pre-mix that's almost listenable.
one day soon i shall dig the actual songs out. because yes, i remember that version of "isolation" kicking so much ass it hurt.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)
What got me whn I first bought Brotherhood was the palpable rawness in the (vinyl album's) rockier first side - almost harkening back to Joy Division sonically in places. That and then the steely, boxy sound of the synth oriented flip side just won me over. Last time i played this album was a couple of months ago and I was intrigued by how off the cuff it sounds overall - almost like it was recorded over a weekend with a few overdubs here and there. Definitely their most relaxed sounding recording; a real difference from what came later on.
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 28 January 2005 10:13 (twenty years ago)
**Why'd they keep hanging around with Stephen Hague again?**
Absolutely! What a fucking useless producer! I really can't stand his trademark thin, watered-down sound : e.g Republic or his work with Siouxsie and The Banshees.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 January 2005 10:34 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 11:48 (twenty years ago)
― moldau, Friday, 28 January 2005 12:02 (twenty years ago)
it's got all my favourite sounds, and it's THE mix of guitar and synth that i tend to hold everything else up to. sort of. there's an element of myth of myself going on there.
― Jaunty Alan (Alan), Friday, 28 January 2005 12:27 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Friday, 28 January 2005 13:53 (twenty years ago)
1)Movement2)Blue Monday 12-inch3)Power, Corruption, & Lies4)1981-1982 EP (EGG,Temptation,Hurt,Etc-very convenient, that one)5)Ceremony 12-inch6)Confusion 12-inch7)Thieves Like Us 12-inch8)Perfect Kiss 12-inch9)Brotherhood10)Low Life
― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 28 January 2005 14:28 (twenty years ago)
On "Krafty" - this track sounds like heavy mining of "Way of Life" with a lot of unnecessary production. This and the entirety of the last album would be a lot better if they didn't spend so much time slicking shit up.
― Scott Warner (thream), Friday, 28 January 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)
which is probably the point.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Friday, 28 January 2005 16:21 (twenty years ago)
1. Movement2. EGG 12" with Cries and Whispers and Mesh3. Temptation 12"4. Thieves Like Us/Lonesome Tonight 12"5. Technique6. Ceremony 7" (The 3-piece recording)7. Power Corruption and Lies8. Confusion 12"9. Low Life10. Blue Monday 12" orig pressing.
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)
From the Omelette album.
Bernard:
"A single egg in the mixing bowlA simple chance to keep me wholeA few more eggs are getting friedI think you think that love has died."
*Hook bassline, combination Morris acoustic/electronic percussion, shimmering Gilbert synth*
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)
Oh yes, it's grand.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:09 (twenty years ago)
1. Technique2. Round and Round 12" (Kevin Saunderson remixes OMG)3. Ceremony 7"4. Get Ready YEAH THAT'S RIGHT Get Ready5. Regret (single + remixes)6. Power, Corruption and Lies7. Run2 12"8. Peel Session #1 9. True Faith Remix 12"10. Bizarre Love Triangle 12"
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)
― donut christ (donut), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:20 (twenty years ago)
― MindInRewind (Barry Bruner), Friday, 28 January 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)
Maybe Gillian was more essential than any of us realized at the time. I was always a fan of hers for punk rock reasons: we need a keyboardist? How 'bout my girlfriend? She can't play very well, but we'll teach her!
Now I'm curious about the extent of her contributions beyond arrangements.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 28 January 2005 22:12 (twenty years ago)
The drum into of Paradise sound exactly like the drum intro of Pixies "Bone Machine"
― Neil FC (Neil FC), Friday, 28 January 2005 23:18 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:12 (twenty years ago)
"You know, you're a real 'lettuce' person."
― donut christ (donut), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:22 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 02:25 (twenty years ago)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:11 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:14 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 03:15 (twenty years ago)
'exciting chase music for Sylvester Stallone cop drama 1986!' soundtracks which I admit is sorta pointless. Jan Hammer was cornering that market, let him do the job.
Ha ha ha, no kidding! Dare I mention Beverly Hills Cop or something?
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:14 (twenty years ago)
― donut christ (donut), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:36 (twenty years ago)
And Ned, your post reminded me that I've never really known whether to think of JD/NO as just one band or as two distinct entities (the answer probably lies in the middle). Closer certainly fits, but Unknown Pleasures was just a year out, sadly (for the purposes of my completely arbitrary time frame, of course). But, yeah. Amazing, really. We were utterly spoiled! And we didn't deserve it!
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:39 (twenty years ago)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)
"All The Way" (I skipped Fine Time, sorry, nothing against it, really but I wanted to get into the meat of the album quickly) seems to me like a better, more fully fleshed out song than anything on Brotherhood besides "All Day Long". I think overall I probably do like Technique more than Brotherhood, but I didn't really realize that until now.
I still think Get Ready is better than either of these, though, and I raised my fist in the air with a big "WOOO HOO" as if a sports team had just won when you said upthread it was grand, Ned!
Also I do believe I've narrowed down what my first New Order record must have been or at least I've narrowed it down to three, but it's quite possible I bought two or more of them all on the same day: Power Corruption & Lies, Blue Monday 12", and the U.S. 1981-1982 EP comprising most of the EGG & Temptation 12"es.
The first time I realized how much I really liked New Order was when I heard "Your Silent Face". I can't remember if I had heard Blue Monday or Temptation before it or not, but when I heard YSF I suddenly had this flash of intuition that whatever else that band did, I was going to like. Perhaps not a completely true statement in retrospect, but true enough, I have no qualms about calling them my favourite band, and I've never had any similar flash of intution about a band or artist like that.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:41 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:41 (twenty years ago)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:48 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)
Side note: NO lovers everywhere. Answer me something. I love pretty much everything by the band, right up to Get Ready. And I mean nearly every song, not just album. But something scared me away from Get Ready. I'm not sure why -- perhaps it's that feeling when you realise an artist you love has run out of ideas, grown stale, whatever (Wild Mood Swings and Bloodflowers, right? Sorry, Ned and Dan, I've really tried) -- but I avoided it completely. I've only heard "Crystal" and I do like it a lot. Now, here's the question: based on what I've just written, would you say I was insane for giving Get Ready the cold shoulder, and would I love it after all?
xpost to Ned. Damn, I never saw that little trap! Good thing it never happened then, really.
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:57 (twenty years ago)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 04:59 (twenty years ago)
1. EGG 12"2. Ceremony 12" (the non-3 piece version, I guess, but I don't really care tooo much)3. Movement4. Temptation 12" if I could just put the Substance version on the A-side instead5. PCL6. Low Life7. Theives Like Us 12"8. Get Ready9. Confusion 12" (THE ORIGINAL ONE DAMNIT)10. The two early Peel Sessions? Can we pick that? No? Oh okay, then Touched By The Hand Of God, then11. Here To Stay CD single
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 05:06 (twenty years ago)
I do believe you were wise to spot this, Ned. Good call.
David, you will never know if you like Get Ready until you try it. There is certainly a lack of consensus here, and I'm not presumptuous enough to even try to predict which side you might fall on.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 05:11 (twenty years ago)
But of course, you're right.
(I can't believe I've managed to go this long without hearing anything other than "Crystal", anyway.)
― David A. (Davant), Saturday, 29 January 2005 06:09 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 07:03 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Saturday, 29 January 2005 07:06 (twenty years ago)
No one's answered my question yet: Gillian's role.
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 29 January 2005 13:34 (twenty years ago)
I never really took to Brotherhood, I have it somewhere though , the pbk style cassette version. I think as I was so enthralled by Lowlife, that it seemed like a retreat from the progression they'd made in the previous 5 years, plus the PSB were on the scene and it was as if they'd taken the baton and were the ones doing the more interesting work. I'll have to dig that tape out as there's so much love for it here that it merits reappraisal.
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Saturday, 29 January 2005 14:21 (twenty years ago)
You hurt me in my heart, Billy ;)
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Saturday, 29 January 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)
― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Saturday, 29 January 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)
Junior high flashback: I had an issue of Modern Drummer with Morris on the cover, and rather than badger him with the usual "Is this real music?" argle-bargle, they just dove right in and let him talk at length about being a drummer who regularly used samplers & drum machines to augment (or even replace) his drumming. Definitely a key moment in my development as a musician.
Anyway, this is a wonderful album that, dammit, I'm gonna have to go out and get a replacement copy of. Ned, I bought Music For the Masses and Black Celebration because of your last "In Praise Of..." thread. Keep this up and I'll be sending you a bill!
― Tantrum The Cat (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 29 January 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)
Still the same sense of disappointment as when I first heard it. The thinnest content and sound of New Order's albums for me.
― Bob Six (bobbysix), Sunday, 30 January 2005 16:11 (twenty years ago)
I keep trying to get into "Get Ready," but every time I hear Billy Corgan's voice come in it makes me think I'm listening to the Smashing Pumpkins aping New Order (c. "Adore" or something). And I'm rarely in the mood to listen to Smashing Pumpkins, especially when I'm in the mood to listen to New Order. Which is often.
― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Sunday, 30 January 2005 17:30 (twenty years ago)
and Im not sure what kind of input Gillian had on the band's output. Im sure at the very least it was quality control/bouncing off ideas kinda stuff.
― Dude, are you a 15 year old asian chick? (jingleberries), Sunday, 30 January 2005 22:47 (twenty years ago)
we can't, therefore, qualify or quantify gillian's contribution. but what we can surmise pretty easily is that, after 20 years, the departure of quarter of the band is going to have a cataclysmic effect on the group dynamic. for better or for worse? we'll have to wait and see. nobody has ever satisfactorily explained whether or not gillian played on "get ready"; given that what i hear on that album is the desperate thrash of ageing men trying to recapture some mythical lost youth, i imagine she didn't. but i really don't know.
i ranted about this at length on alt.music.new-order. it got quite heated ;0
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Sunday, 30 January 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)
― youn, Sunday, 30 January 2005 23:29 (twenty years ago)
― youn, Sunday, 30 January 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 07:58 (twenty years ago)
― bernard hook, Monday, 31 January 2005 08:20 (twenty years ago)
-- Edward Bax (Edward_Ba...), January 28th, 2005.what movie is that ?the vietnamese woman seems a sweetheart
― bernard hook, Monday, 31 January 2005 08:37 (twenty years ago)
She wrote some bits and pieces, but didn't play.
**I don't have any reason to suspect she didn't play gigs with them for the Get Ready tour either**
She didn't. The last Gill gig was 1998 (Alexandra Palace, I think).
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 31 January 2005 09:27 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 09:37 (twenty years ago)
― Baaderonixxx le Jeune (Fabfunk), Monday, 31 January 2005 10:12 (twenty years ago)
― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 31 January 2005 10:41 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 11:02 (twenty years ago)
― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Monday, 31 January 2005 12:12 (twenty years ago)
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 January 2005 14:59 (twenty years ago)
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)
― JimD (JimD), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:07 (twenty years ago)
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:13 (twenty years ago)
that said thanks to you lot i went to listen to it this morning on the way in to work, just to see if it had miraculously got any better. but i must have taken it off the iPod ages ago. whoops. i'll dig it out at some point soon.
― grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)
As for "Get ready" fear, I wouldn't touch it for about two years until I saw it for £4 in Big W about six months ago, played it as a soundtrack to mowing the lawn and loved it. Don't care about Billy Corgan being on it, can't really hear him, don't care about Barney's lyrics, they just exist, it sounds like them rocking out for the first time in a long long time (didn't really rate "Republic", too synthy clean) and enjoying it. Go on, you'll not regret it.
― Rob M (Rob M), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)
I'd forgotten about that thread! I'd also forgotten that I did a technical dissection of how "Turn My Way" was constructed.
― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 31 January 2005 16:34 (twenty years ago)
Yes, they are in danger of this sometimes. Can't think of a better way to put it.
Go on, you'll not regret it.
Pun intended, I hope.
― Bimble... (Bimble...), Monday, 31 January 2005 17:26 (twenty years ago)
― Rob M (Rob M), Monday, 31 January 2005 17:33 (twenty years ago)
― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Monday, 31 January 2005 17:38 (twenty years ago)
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 06:08 (twenty years ago)
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 06:12 (twenty years ago)
― shine headlights on me (electricsound), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 06:14 (twenty years ago)
i still like power, corruption, and lies better.
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Tuesday, 15 March 2005 06:16 (twenty years ago)
Hmm, yes, this album.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2007 00:03 (eighteen years ago)
THIS ALBUM
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 24 May 2008 15:14 (seventeen years ago)
So good of you to agree.
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 24 May 2008 15:58 (seventeen years ago)
I too prefer Power, Corruption, and Lies over this but it's definitely in retrospect; at the time I pretty much loved everything New Order did without exception. As my tastes have changed I've grown to prefer PCL over everything else because it captures the sound of the band at their most uninhibited. They're clearly finding their way on PCL, not really giving a fuck about their legacy anymore, zero-ing in on some of the textures that would define them later on (but probably not realizing it themselves yet!) and as a result there isn't another album in the New Order catalog that sounds as loose and jammy as PCL.
Today 'Brotherhood' sounds to me like the most conventionally "rock" of all of their records (that is, of their first generation period) but it still has that NO sensibility and execution that make a more straightforward track like "Way of Life" sound unlike any other band.
― scottw, Saturday, 24 May 2008 17:22 (seventeen years ago)
THAT ALBUM
― Kevin John Bozelka, Saturday, 24 May 2008 18:18 (seventeen years ago)
I'm with scottw...something about PCL endures. "loose and jammy" - that's it. I would never have chosen it as my fave but it sounds better year after year. "Three miles to go..."
― Bimble, Saturday, 24 May 2008 18:36 (seventeen years ago)
"We All Stand" sounds like an attempt at a looser version of 12-bar blues, updated for the New Romantic age.
I revived the thread precisely because I heard "Way of Life" and the live version of "As It Is..." found on the Retro set, the latter in particular sounding tighter and more forceful than I remembered.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 24 May 2008 18:46 (seventeen years ago)
i'm surprised by what i said above about this being my second-favourite new order album; i don't think i felt that way when we did our perennial rank-the-albums thing more recently.
also: i really don't ever remember digging out those peel session tracks! that i *must* do.
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 May 2008 22:09 (seventeen years ago)
i actually prefer Brotherhood, Technique and maybe even Republic over PCL
*ducks*
― stephen, Saturday, 24 May 2008 22:10 (seventeen years ago)
republic is a beautiful, underrated album.
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 May 2008 22:12 (seventeen years ago)
Republic is just AWESOME
― stephen, Saturday, 24 May 2008 22:23 (seventeen years ago)
Republic is an awesome Electronic album.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 24 May 2008 23:06 (seventeen years ago)
hah! if we're judging it on those terms, it's the best Electronic album
― stephen, Saturday, 24 May 2008 23:09 (seventeen years ago)
by far
... this seems as good a time as any to advance my unpopular and discredited theory that the first electronic album is in fact a perfect companion-piece to "technique".
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 May 2008 23:23 (seventeen years ago)
I won't disagree. The first Electronic album got met into New Order in the summer of '91.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 24 May 2008 23:26 (seventeen years ago)
ah, the summer of '91. bliss was it in that dawn to be alive ... actually, no, hang on, i was probably deeply mired in teenage angst.
still. great soundtrack for it.
― grimly fiendish, Saturday, 24 May 2008 23:29 (seventeen years ago)
"Everyone Everywhere" and "Regret" notwithstanding, nothing on Republic's as good as "Get The Message," "Some Distant Memory," "Tighten Up," "The Patience of a Saint," "Getting Away With It," or "Reaction."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 25 May 2008 00:05 (seventeen years ago)
Electronic played a set opening for Depeche out here in LA in 1990, a year before the album came out, and I'm pretty sure they did "Patience of a Saint" since Neil and Chris joined them on stage (they very definitely did do "Getting Away With It").
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 May 2008 00:10 (seventeen years ago)
Son of a gun, they did do it -- here's the tracklist for that first ever show:
http://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/archive/showartefact.php?aid=537&bid=332
And yes I bought a T-shirt which I still have, with a big pink slanted star on the front and a bit on the back near the top saying it was Electronic's first show anywhere etc.
― Ned Raggett, Sunday, 25 May 2008 00:12 (seventeen years ago)
nothing on Republic's as good as "Get The Message," "Some Distant Memory," "Tighten Up," "The Patience of a Saint," "Getting Away With It," or "Reaction."
"reaction"?
also: regardless of whether or not i agree (i don't) ... where's "gangster", one of barney's most gobsmacking moments? :)
― grimly fiendish, Sunday, 25 May 2008 09:37 (seventeen years ago)
er, "Reality," not "Reaction."
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 25 May 2008 13:21 (seventeen years ago)
So the question is -- has the sound been improved by the remaster?
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 8 December 2008 16:08 (sixteen years ago)
Not that I can hear.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 8 December 2008 16:09 (sixteen years ago)
hear hear
― redmond, Monday, 8 December 2008 18:25 (sixteen years ago)
Now this is an album I can get behind. Granted, I haven't heard it in 10 years. But it's one of those albums I bought the week it came out. (I can remember the local music press slagging it off as "New Order sell out" or some such nonsense.)
I can never decide between this and LowLife though.
― Sampling Potter's Nipples (Masonic Boom), Monday, 8 December 2008 18:49 (sixteen years ago)
Brotherhood >>>> Lowlife
― baaderonixx, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 08:41 (sixteen years ago)
25 years old today!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:11 (fourteen years ago)
http://www.xfm.co.uk/xfm-25-brotherhood-by-new-order
worth listening to
― brotherlovesdub, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:35 (fourteen years ago)
Cool, thanks!
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 29 September 2011 16:46 (fourteen years ago)
Never understood why even so many new order fans find this record somewhat mediocre, whereas I think it's their pinnacle. Listening to it again for first time in ages, when I got to this track, I started searching for the words to describe the effect this music has on me, without much success, although for some reason the phrase 'effortless grace' popped into my mind (during the wonderful last minute). Then I recalled there was an ancient ILM thread about Brotherhood, that I'd read once a decade ago, and reading it again, in reference to the very song Way of Life, I was amazed to see the following:
"Simple moments, simple songs but it all combines and recombines, and again, it's like...why NOT rock this way, with such grace and power all at once? So apparently effortless, like watching a massive airplane take off into the sunset with no extraneous noise and no exhaust."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahhx9MiHGmA
― Campari G&T, Saturday, 28 July 2012 05:11 (thirteen years ago)
You told me about yourself,How you once lived with someone elseThe way of life that you had triedThe way they hurt you deep insideThat's the only thing about itI can't find anyone to doubt itThat's the only thing about itI can't find anyone to doubt itWho do you think you're talking to?When I look at you I know you're lyingAll you say and doSeems to fall apart and leave you crying
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 2 February 2019 03:56 (six years ago)
Their last great album IMO
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 04:04 (six years ago)
Nonsense
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Saturday, 2 February 2019 08:17 (six years ago)
Brotherhood is pretty underrated but Technique is mostly just an even better version of it
― ufo, Saturday, 2 February 2019 09:01 (six years ago)
As i posted waaay upthread aeons ago - "Technique" is fine but too in thrall to house music and Ecstasy. Not a bad album but also not entirely the New Order I knew and loved up til then.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 12:55 (six years ago)
I wasn't really into rolling snare fills with my melodicas.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 2 February 2019 12:56 (six years ago)
"Fine Time" is the only track that's really like that and it's an endearing mess but not my favourite
it has a similar guitar-based and synth-based split to Brotherhood, they're just all mixed together instead of being one side guitars and one side synths
i'll take "Round & Round", "Mr. Disco", "Vanishing Point" and "Dream Attack" over Brotherhood side two (even though that has "Bizarre Love Triangle") and "All The Way", "Love Less" and "Run" are far better than Brotherhood side one
― ufo, Saturday, 2 February 2019 13:10 (six years ago)
Brotherhood would have a better reputation if its production values were as pristine as Technique's.
― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 16:34 (six years ago)
"Technique" is fine but too in thrall to house music and Ecstasy. Not a bad album but also not entirely the New Order I knew and loved up til then.
thanks Geirbot
― The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 19:00 (six years ago)
how can the album be in thrall to house music and Ecstasy when five tracks are rock songs? Unless you meant house and Ecstasy brought them to their songwriting peak.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 20:37 (six years ago)
All Day Long is probably the best NO track in my dumb opinion. I haven't heard anything that sounds quite like that one.
― frogbs, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 21:11 (six years ago)
"Your Silent Face" does something similar imo
― Number None, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:39 (six years ago)
very true
― frogbs, Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:40 (six years ago)
"All the Way" too.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 22:47 (six years ago)
― The Very Fugly Caterpillar (sic), Tuesday, February 5, 2019 2:00 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nice try but ... nah.
Alfred - I feel those influences blanded out their sound somehow. All the interviews I remember from that time talked of endless partying in Ibiza and the influence of the cool new stuff they'd been hearing when they went out to the island's clubs. I just heard - and hear - a glossy record missing the roughness and fire of the releases that led up to it. Sorry folks, I don't really like my New Order slick.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 23:04 (six years ago)
so you don't like slick and glossy?
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 5 February 2019 23:41 (six years ago)
Not with New Order, no.
― So, This Leaked (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:20 (six years ago)
the New Order albums i'm not down w/as much are Get Ready and WFTSC. Music Complete brought me back, moreso after seeing the songs performed live.
― omar little, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:37 (six years ago)
and they still are! Lots of them!
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 00:59 (six years ago)
I have a strange relationship with this album. I think back when I got it I was aware that it was the highest Xgau rated New Order album besides "Substance" (maybe he gave it an A?), but it's probably the one I went back to the least when I had them all. Not bad, definitely a good record, sounds a bit like a computer built out of cardboard.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:05 (six years ago)
nah I love it and I love its rough sound; it wasn't deliberate, but it reassured the rockists worried that after PCL and LL they'd moved too close to the dance floor. It was the last classic-era album I bought in 1992, and it shocked me with its guitar-bass-drums base.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:08 (six years ago)
According to Wikipedia, Bizarre Love Triangle didn't chart in either the UK or the US - although my memory was that it was everywhere at the time!
― Zelda Zonk, Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:42 (six years ago)
In Miami the Shep Pettibone remix was a part of life from 1987-1993. Then after the Frente! revival I heard a different remix. But, yes, it was not an official single.
― Your sweetie-pie-coo-coo I love ya (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 February 2019 01:43 (six years ago)
"all day long" >>>>>>
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:12 (six years ago)
i think i really love this record now, it's great, singles band my ass
― american bradass (BradNelson), Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:14 (six years ago)
it's very closely their second best behind technique imo, so good
― ufo, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 04:17 (six years ago)
"All Day Long" was my favourite when it was new(-ish -- bought it shortly before "True Faith" arrived). The variations on the basic theme in the coda just sounded luvly to 12-y/o ears.
That was my first NO purchase and I was confused. Not much of it sounded like "Bizarre Love Triangle" and the lyrics seemed kinda half-baked, even to a Duran Duran fan. LOL. Took me a little while to realise that that was part of the charm and that most of their albums are a loveable mess. I have no idea how to rank them these days, though I guess I must have for that poll a few years ago.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 06:51 (six years ago)
"way of life"/"bizarre love triangle"/"all day long" is such a great sequence
― ufo, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:08 (six years ago)
I loved All Day Long. To me PCL, Low Life and Brotherhood were three perfect albums. I know Technique was also great but I think I had moved on by the time it was released
― Dan S, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:10 (six years ago)
It was definitely, quantifiably everywhere in Aus. Top 5 apparently, from the same source, and #1 here in Victoria. Certainly felt like everyone dug it that (southern) summer. My neighbour had the 12" with "Bizarre Dub Triangle" on the flipside and quite a few people enjoyed/endured my tape dub with several versions back to back.
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 8 May 2019 07:19 (six years ago)