"The Wu-Tang Manual" by RZA

Book I provides basic information, backstory, and a complete list of alter egos for each of the nine core members of Wu-Tang Clan:
+ RZA
+ GZA
+ ODB
+ Method Man
+ Ghostface Killah
+ Raekwon
+ U-God
+ Inspectah Deck
+ Masta Killa

Book II breaks down nine key themes of the Wu-Tang universe:
+ Spirituality: the spiritual journey through the Bible to Greek Mythology to Five Percent Nation to Ch’an Buddhism to a holistic spirituality.
+ Martial Arts: from a fascination with kung fu movies up through a serious study of martial arts Eastern spirituality.
+ Capitalism: from the now-famous original record deals that allowed the Clan to record together and as solo artists through the Clan’s later diversification, including Wu-Tang Records, Wu-Wear, the Shaolin Style Playstation, and more.
+ Comics: the influence of comic book heroes on hip-hop and Wu-Tang, including specific discussions of the bestselling Nine Rings of Wu-Tang comic books and Bobby Digital.
+ Chess: the importance of chess to Wu-Tang both as a game and as a multi-sided metaphor.
+ Organized Crime: Wu-Tang’s personal, cinematic, and structural affinities with the Mafia.
+ Cinema: includes both kung-fu and mafia movies, but also the cinematic sound of Wu-Tang music, plus sections on key filmmakers John Woo, Jarmusch, and Tarantino.
+ Chemistry: brief history, anecdotes, and information about Wu-Tang Clan’s experimentation, and how it has influenced their music.
+ Slang: a dictionary-like compendium of Wu-slang.

Book III provides the lyrics and densely annotated explanations of nine Wu-Tang songs:
+ “Protect Ya Neck”
+ “Bring Da Ruckus”
+ “C.R.E.A.M.”
+ “Triumph”
+ “Hellz Wind Staff”
+ “Impossible”
+ “Protect Ya Neck (The Jump Off)”
+ “Uzi (Pinky Ring)”
+ “Rules”

And in Book IV, RZA discusses the art and craft of hip-hop as it relates to Wu-Tang:
+ Wu-Tang Samples: RZA’s unique, groundbreaking approach to sampling
+ Technology: history of key technological components RZA and the Clan had to master to make their music what they wanted it to be.
+ The Spirituality of Producing: what goes into producing Wu-Tang’s music and what it has meant to the RZA.
+ Voices as Instruments: how the nine members of Wu-Tang Clan function like a symphony, with each member playing an instrumental role
+ The Art of Rhyme: a discussion of Wu-Tang lyric-writing, with key contributions from GZA and U-God.
+ Live Performances: a brief history of the importance and the sensibility of Wu-Tang performances, up through their recent show in Los Angeles.
+ The Way of the Abbot: RZA on his role at the center of the Wu-Tang Clan
+ Wuman Resources: the career management behind the Wu-Tang Clan and the solo careers of the individual members
+ The Saga Continues: The future of Wu-Tang...

Heh.

are you saying RZA was a cokehead?

EXCEPT if this book includes a reprint of the interview that the CHRONIC zine did with each member of wu-tang when they were filming the 1st video for "wu tang forever" (i forget which track it was) then i'll buy the book.

has anybody ever seen those interviews?? if you weren't in the bay area in 96-97 you might have missed it. oh god, those were the shit.

"I didn't know it at the time. but cocaine influenced a lot of the best rapping on 36 Chambers. Maybe you can hear it?" -- the RZA

no you really don't but it might be very interesting what he has to say on their other inspirations, his musical knowledge is surprising. the man plays 6 different instruments.

(Also if anyone can find or scan those Chronic interviews oh boy that would make me so happy.)

By the way, did anyone notice this snippet of the Chronic interview posted above?

Chronicmagazine.com: “If you had to do it all over, would you change anything in your career?�

RZA: “If I had to do it over, I would do [it] twice as nice. I have no legitimate regrets, but I did make a few errors on the path. Positive education always corrects errors. I know much better now and I will do it over again from a different chamber.�

Does RZA speak in acrostics in normal conversation too?

Isn't that part of the whole 5%er thing?

But I thought I should reply to the comment above about acrostics which I somehow missed. AFAIK, there is some connection between 5 percenters (and other NOI groups) and the use of acrostics and numerology. For example: I Self Lord Am Master. It's the Science of Supreme Mathematics and Alphabets.

Examples: "The number seven symbolizes Allah because it is the Mathematical terminology for the creator of the universe (and the seventh letter of the [The Supreme Alphabet], G, stands for God"

"8 = Build. Eight is buld because God builds everything. Even the word God itself--G-O-D--you take those letters and add it up, you get eight. 7-15-4. And to build means to add on to life. And when you build positively, you take away from negativity."

(Did anyone ever read "Sideways Arithmetic From Wayside School" by Louis Sachar in elementary school?)

re: skeptics
Remember, the book is subtitled "A Written Introduction to the Philosophy and Saga of the Wu-Tang Clan" Certainly it is litered with arguably menial information regarding references or group infighting, but the rest of the book is just so kick-ass that you can't dimiss it completely. There is a chapter on chess for chrissakes. And as arch Ibog said (ie. OTM!), it's a very well written, very honest and frank book that could have been just another tour diary of Method Man on the set of deoderant commercials. Also it underscores the aspects of the Wu-Tang that are dissimilar from most hip-hop groups, in that they set out with a very clear vision for not only maintaing the group direction, but each individual member as well, financially and musically (readers at home see "The Five-Year Plan" page 75).

It demonstrates once and for all how RZA and the Wu are so much deeper and more profound than 99% of their contemporaries, particularly the bling-bling guys. It's really mindblowing at times.

yeah. though it appears even the publisher/distributor was confused about that, as there's a "book one" sticker on the cover of mine.

i'm reading it from front to back, am only about 1/3 third so I haven't even gotten to the stuff I think I'd be more interested in, but it's already a great read. Actually, the stuff I thought I'd just skip over (mathematics, kung fu flicks) is fairly interesting, too.

i think jay-z could be a good pulp novelist in an iceberg slim-type stylee. or maybe not, i dunno.

Someone might be able to write a book about Jay-Z's or Biggie's lyrics, but the Manual covers the lyrics + a dozen other topics (actually it only barely touches on the lyrics). Biggie and Jay-Z's chapters on film, comics, drugs, spirituality, would be pretty slim, methinks...

(seriously they do list those last two in the "drugs" chapter)

also you forgot crack wrt ODB.

Don't forget RZA's championing of herbal tea in "Coffee and Cigarettes."

What really impresses me is that RZA's approach to his music and
building the Wu-Tang empire is multi-layered in an exciting, eclectic, exotic, profound, and highly intellectual manner, and that, I'm afraid, cannot be said about Jay-Z. It's one thing to base your aesthetic on money, drugs, and women (the standard approach), but it's another thing entirely to base it on spiritual traditions, chess strategy, religious symbolism, distant historical events, martial arts, street knowledge, and other widely varying sources while still maintaining an approachable format. While C.R.E.A.M. might have championed the money aspect of Wu-Tang's approach in a visible way, very few other rappers could ever have a meaningful book built on intellectual foundations in their personal philosophies (y'know, other traditions besides base materialism like "get power, get money, get pussy").

"Can't Knock the Hustle (remix)" (1996)

[Intro:]
(Singing) Whoooh, Paradise
you better think twice, 'cause you're not living the life
[Jay-Z:]
Jay-Z, Roc-A-Fella y'all, it don't stop

[Verse One: ]

We about to change this game here
Check my pockets there's nothing but game there
I remain without fear
Keep the lanes clear, and the cats that's all about threats remain here
On top of this Metropolis
My name is like a square
Dropped off every tier
Now y'all can swear to Jay
Heard it the other day
Through the mystery, we get it swiftly
We got to hit you every night before we hit the lights it's type addictive
Need cats to live with, the heat goes on
Everyday is a hustle, the beat goes on
Funny thing happen, in the midst of chasing money and foes
And the worst thing worst then getting old is not getting old
Niggaz stay low, like six bowls of shit and gold
And watch the hoes when they bump into your clothes
And I hope they shine
Seen a lot of things and enough memories to last me two lifetimes
Can't knock the hustle

[Chorus #1: (Singing) ]

I'm taking out this time
To give you a piece of my mind
Who do you think you are
Baby one day you'll be a star

[Verse Two]

Check this
In a mans world need a girl to tough something
Pull an 80 out her Anne Klein purse and bust something
If you skating through the night to the light, then trust something
When I get home
Then it's on
Girl just crack those shaped legs like Grade A eggs
Love the way you behave and beg
Moan, turn those hollers to screams as we zone like a college team
Then they can hear you from Hollis, Queens (226)
Life with me, consists of a lot of things
Chips in your ear hit the dirt 'cause you got hotter things
But you know how to scream, friends talking dizziness
Remind them freak chicks to stay out my business
You know they can't love it, trips to LA with no luggage
Came back with six bags struggling
In first class if my ass should crash, champagne spilled on me
Bank still off on me

[Chorus #2: (Singing)]

But until the last day, I'm the one who's crazy
'Cause that's the way you making me feel (can't knock the hustle)
I don't want no romance, I just want the chance
Can't knock the hustle for real

[Verse Three]

Ever since you retired, working alongside those live wires
Been in this rap biz with fake nigs you know liars
I guess I'm biased, what I talk about I live
These rap dudes can flip, but some of them ain't even rhyming for chips
WHAT PART OF THE GAME IS THIS
Seems brainless, on tours with whores that's what I'm saying I miss
Cats that go all out for their gold plaques
Starting out with four jacks, ended up with Gold Ac's
Bet your love collapses if my funds get trapped
On the weight of me through you, screw you
Gun blew you, I didn't want to choose you
Run through you like UH, EXCUSE YOU!
But that's my cash, I understand you hustle
That's my cash, you don't understand
Let my dough flash, you can show it love
Like a rap star in front of the club
But don't knock the hustle

"Incarcerated Scarfaces" (1995)

Intro: [lp version]

He looks determined without being ruthless
Something heroic in this man, there’s a courage about him
Doesn’t look like a killer
Comes across so calm, acts like he has a dream
Full of passion

You don’t trust me huh?
Well you know why
I do, we’re not supposed to trust anyone in our profession anyway

Intro two: raekwon the chef

Knock niggaz out the box all the time
Bitches on my motherfuckin records pah
Big ones, yeah, big fuckers
Straight up, fuck your whole team
Yeah bust it
Yo, yo, fly g.i. niggaz

Chorus: raekwon the chef

Now yo yo, whattup yo, time is runnin out
It’s for real though, let’s connect politic - ditto!
We could trade places, get lifted in the staircases
Word up, peace incarcerated scarfaces

Verse one: raekwon the chef

Thug related style attract millions
Fans, they understand my plan
Who’s the kid up in the green land?
Me and the rza connect, blow a fuse, you lose
Half-ass crews get demolished and bruised
Fake be frontin, hourglass heads niggaz be wantin
Shuttin down your slot; time for pumpin
Poisonous sting which thumps up and act chumps
Raise a heavy generator
But yo, guess who’s the black trump?
Dough be flowin by the hour’s
Wu, we got the collars, scholars
Word life, peace to power and my whole unit
Word up! quick to set it, don’t wet it
Real niggas lick shots, peace kinetic

Chorus

Verse two: raekwon the chef

Chef’ll shine like marble, rhyme remarkable
Real niggaz raise up, spend your money, argue
But this time is for the uninvited
Go head and rhyme to it, big nigga mics is gettin fired
Morphine chicks be burnin like chlorine
Niggaz recognize from here to baltimore to fort greene
But hold up, moet be tastin like throw-up
My mob roll up, dripped to death whips rolled up
Ya never had no wins, slidin in these dens wit timbs
Wit mac-10’s and broke friends
Ya got guns, got guns too, what up son, do
You wanna battle for cash and see who sun too?
I probably wax, tax, smack rap niggaz who fax
Niggaz lyrics is wack nigga
Can’t stand unofficial, wet tissue, blank bustin scud missles
You rollin like trump, you get your meat lumped
For real, it’s just slang rap democracy
Here’s the policy, slide off the ring, plus the wallabees
Check the status, soon to see me at
Caesar’s palace eatin salads
We beatin mics and the keys to dallas
I move rhymes like retail, make sure shit sell
From where we at to my man’s cell
From staircase to stage, minimun wage
But soon to get a article in rappage
But all I need is my house, my gat, my ac
Bank account fat - it’s goin’ down like that
And pardon the french but let me speak italian
Black stallion, dwellin on shaolin
That means the island of staten
And niggaz carry gats and mad police from manhattan

Chorus

Verse three: raekwon the chef

I do this for barber shop niggaz in the plaza
Catchin asthma, rae is stickin gun-flashers
Well-dressed, skatin through the projects wit big ones
Broke elevators, turn the lights out, stick one
Upstairs, swithc like a chameleon
Hip brazilians, pass the cash or leave your children
Leave the buildin
Niggas, yo they be foldin’ like envelopes under pressure
Like lou farigno on coke
Yo, africans denyin niggaz up in yellow cabs
Musty like funk, wavin they arms, the arabs
Sit back, coolin like kahlua’s on rocks
On the crack spots, rubberband wrapped on my knots
You bitches who fuck dreds on sudafeds
Pussy’s hurtin, they did it for a yard for the feds
Word up cousin, nigga, I seen it
Like a 27-inch zenith - believe it!

Chorus

...politic ditto
...get lifted in the staircases

Jay-Z yes I've listened to (albeit only recently), Biggie not really (can't get past Puffy and how unbelievably shitty he is as a person and a "producer"). I like Jay-Z in general, but textually dense he is not. Nimble, funny, slick, yes - but there's no weight there.

If this comment is meant in a snarky way I think you're misunderstanding RZA's use of the term Mathematics.

It's difficult to state this here, as the book paints a much more vivid and understandable picture, but the foundations are in the traditions I mentioned above. Suffice to say that it's a very rich intellectual and spiritual body of knowledge that influenced RZA's approach, some of which is visible in the lyrics-- sometimes it's obvious, at other times, you need to be knowledgable enough to catch the often obscure references. Also, it's obvious that some Wu members are more literate about this stuff than others; Raekwon and U-God, I think, are among the least likely to talk about this stuff in their lyrics, although both make occasional references.

Anyway, to really understand what I'm rattling on about, you'd have to read book and hear it from the horse's mouth, instead of hearing it from me, some random guy on a message board. At $16.00 (cheaper online), it's a real bargain, and I would be surprised if anyone felt disappointed with it, or felt like it was intellectually skimpy.

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I think RZA dictated it to Chris Norris. And Norris definitely deserves some props for compiling that vast array of information in a coherent way.

You know that Puffy didn't produce any of the tracks (other than the intro) on Ready to Die, right?

And Shakey, you really oughtta listen to Ready to Die (again), especially if you're going to write derogatory things about Biggie. It's a great album and sounds totally different from Puffy's later works.

btw, bitch is a term of endearment, skank.

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examples, oops?

How about not sticking to hip-hop? Of course it's common within hip-hop, though Jay-Z does it a little better and a lot more explicitly than other rappers.

I don't agree that Jay-Z is somehow unconsciously putting in pro-capitalism messages in his lyrics. He meant his music to have the significance that people give it. But even if he didn't, why would that make his music any less deep or significant? Why do the artist's intentions matter?

Motherf**kers -
say that I'm foolish I only talk about jewels (bling bling)
Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?
See I'm influenced by the ghetto you ruined
That same dude you gave nothin, I made somethin doin
what I do through and through and
I give you the news - with a twist it's just his ghetto
point-of-view
The renegade; you been afraid
I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block
where they
pop toasters, and they live with they moms
Got dropped roasters, from botched robberies niggaz crossed
over
Mommy's knocked up cause she wasn't watched over
Knocked down by some clown when child support knocked
No he's not around - now how that sound to ya, jot it down
I bring it through the ghetto without ridin 'round
hidin down duckin strays from frustrated youths stuck in they
ways
Just read a magazine that f**ked up my day
How you rate music that thugs with nothin relate to it?
I help them see they way through it - not you
Can't step in my pants, can't walk in my shoes
Bet everything you worth; you lose your tie and your shirt

ps. "ready to die" rulez but everything else biggie did SUXXXXX>

artist's intentions DO matter (sorry ILMers!), but not as much as listeners' responses.

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I'm not saying that Jay-Z's message is any less legitimate, as such, but in my opinion, they're much less worthy of study or analysis, as the foundations of his "pro-capitalist" sentiments are beyond obvious, whereas RZA's philosophical foundations by comparison are not. Of course, I am saying this without having read a book on Jay-Z, but I'd like to see him tell me something about his personal philosophy that I can't figure out by hearing "That Nigga Jigga"

listen carefully, people: FIVE PERCENT PHILOSOPHY IS A TRUCKLOAD OF BULLSHIT

so is nazism but people still talk about it! i guess the uniforms were neat.

or do you really support the tamil tigers, vahid?

xpost - mark e. smith is a prime example of a fascinatingly horrible person!

Yeah, but the argument was Five Percentism and other such humboogery somehow make Wu more deep than Biggie or Tupac.

still, street knowledge has its limitations (one great Raekwon album, one great Jay-Z, one great Nas, one great Biggie, etc.)...I prefer when it can transcend into something more profound, complex and contradictory (Supreme Clientele, The Blueprint)

I agree, but I have to note that Supreme Clientele hasn't got much to do with the usual Wu mysticism. Maybe that was your point too though?

and i disagree - you DO have to believe in something to find it fascinating. i don't find the nazis fascinating - i find them sad and banal. i find the wu tang fascinating, but it's not because of their interest in 5 percent snake oil.

the bible and the koran are interesting because they have a great deal of accumulated depth. they are incredible literature. 5 percent nonsense, mein kampf, kung fu movies are not.

anyway, the wu-tang isn't the group out there telling psychedelic ghost stories. why, here's sheek of the lox on a track from jay's "reasonable doubt"

i make it hot
floodin your block
the best way
professionally
they'll find poison in your x-ray
as I get roasted
lookin at biggie posted
on my wall
takin shots of louie til i fall
nuttin to lose
just load the clip up in the groove
and kick rhymes to the poster
til I swear: "b.i.g. MOVED!"
my team, you would think
was on thorazine...

But this is the opposite of oops' point. You're saying that his lyrics aren't worthy of analysis because their significance is already completely obvious in the music. Oops was saying that any possible meaning is added after the fact and wasn't intended by Jay-Z.

anyway hstencil, i don't need or want to learn more about the specifics of sun ra's views on astrology or cosmology or outerspace travel. i am interested in the specifics of how he organized his band, how he made his music, what are the poetics of his cosmology.

i don't think the RZA is saying anything in his book that seriously contributes to an understanding of the poetics of the wu tang.

similarly, most discussions of pound's cantos are NOT dedicated to identifying every last character and reference in the book.

i guess the counterexample would be "ulysses", although when joyce published his annotation to "ulysses" it was 70 years ago, when concepts like "intentional fallacy" were first being thrown about - i took 3 undergraduate courses on ulysses, only one of them made a big deal of the references in the text, the other 2 had bigger fish to fry.

i would hope with the wu tang we'd have bigger fish to fry than, as alex in sf perceptively called it, "trivia".

()()ps (or oops or whatever) is sinking into complete jackassery here. i'd like to know how he can tell that the rza's meanings are "intended" while jay-z's aren't, i'd also like to know how his argument is different from the classic argument of "oh the people who make [music x] don't actually MEAN anything deep, that's just interpretation from outside"

why stop at music, anyway?? oops can make that argument about abstract expression vs pop art, or about anything else he wants.

And my own political beliefs are dull and sensible and liberal and totally unfascinating. xxxp

t/s: burroughs vs borges

but you're still acting like a douchebag, and i don't need to be anonymous to post that.

anyway, i'm not denying maybe it fascinates you, but i've got to argue with the logic that because [subject x] is fascinating to you, therefore "roman a clef on [subject x]" is the highest form of art.

In total agreement, actually!

I've pretty consistently throughout this thread said that Jay-Z and Biggie's lyrics can be just as "deep" (kind of a facile description but will stick with it for now) as the Wu's. And where you get off equating an interest in historical events, people, and happenings with belief in them is FUCKING RIDICULOUS.

I mean, I don't know you, I'm sorry for the Alex in NYC-style hyperbole, but what you're claiming is DEEPLY OFFENSIVE to me.

I just am interested in HISTORY, okay? jesus christ (not historically invoked).

you know, i should've said something like "perceive some importance" instead of "believe". i can perceive some importance in studying nazism, sure, why not, it's wrapped up with WWII, undeniably important. do i perceive the same importance in collecting japanese swords and bullet cartridges, building model wwii planes and watching "tora tora tora"?? not really.

i'd make the same distinction between reading the koran and reading RZAs trivia book.

This first statement alone calls into question the legitimacy of everything else you said. Do you honestly believe that you can't be interested in things that you don't believe to be true? That concept is so shockingly silly that it borders on patently outrageous. I'm interested in Greek mythology-- doesn't mean I think Icarus flew a homemade set of wings into the air only to have them melt under the heat of the sun.

Anyway, just because you don't subscribe to a philosophy doesn't make it "snake oil." That's just being dismissive against a set of beliefs that you can't personally support. Believe it or not, such things can still be interesting; and more importantly, you can still learn from them, even if you don't believe every word. Keep an open mind.

I never agreed with that particular point. I think this book is interesting because it expounds on the philosophies and traditions that influenced the Wu. That's pretty much it. But yes, I do think that, based on what I already knew about the Wu and what this book added to that, their intellectual history would be far more interesting than Jay-Z's. Of course, I'm not sure if that makes them "deeper" by any absolute measurement, but relative to me, it certainly does.

I admire Sun Ra artisically but you have to admit the whole authoritarian "discipline" thing is a bit creepy. I have the same problem with Beefheart who I once idolized before learning about what a jerk he is. Likewise, I can look past the "women's place is below men" crap in the Wu Tang book, take what I can from it, and realize that I'm not going to be hanging out with these people in real life anyway, so it doesn't really dampen my enjoyment of their art.

Remember the Wu article a few years back, where the RZA, etc. visited a Shaolin monestary? Yeah, they acted totally....lost. Worse than tourists. Like they didn't even read a Lonely Planet paragraph about the culture before dropping in on it.

RZA's book is pure trivial bullshit.

Cite your source.

My point is that while the Wu is fantastic, etc., RZA waxing on anything outside of hip-hop and/or music on the whole seems trivial to me, because the aesthetics created by the Wu are superficial, i.e. Wu members themselves are not martial arts experts.

RZA is a musician, because he creates music

RZA creates music using lyrics and instruments

RZA's lyrics and music contain many references, including organized crime, martial arts, and horror films

RZA is not in the mob, is not a mob expert, is not a martial arts master, is not a martial arts historian, is not a horror filmmaker, nor a serial killer

RZA knows his music, but his knowledge of these references is nominal.

but like Vahid said way up at the top of this thread- you don't need the RZA's book to figure that stuff out

therefore, the knowledge contained in the pages of his book isn't really knowledge, it's the Wu perspective, which is relatively uninformed, and trivial

I'm sorry, but watching 500 kung fu movies does not make you a kung fu master- it makes you a kung fu movie buff

But I did make a mistake- RZA probably knows his capitalism quite well.

"I'm sorry, but watching 500 kung fu movies does not make you a kung fu master- it makes you a kung fu movie buff"

You're really misrepresenting the book here - have you even read it?!?? The chapter on kung-fu IS all about the movies and how the movies informed their lyrics, worldview, personas, etc. It's not like the chapter is a dissertations on "How to Master the Hidden Crane Style" or anything like that.

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Oh man, that was hysterical.

do you think george clinton is more interesting than james brown because spaceships are more interesting than being a player?

i would evaluate george clinton and james brown on the strength of:

1) their formal properties (how well their bands play, how nice the arrangments are) and

2) their poetics (how they use one set of words to mean another set of words, ie black space travel = black emancipation, the big payback = a different stab at emancipation, now how do each of those work, how do they work differently from each other in their different contexts, do one or both or neither work well)

(ie references to numerology and martial arts are just inherently more interesting and complex than jay-z's array of narrative systems and his easily understandable references to objects and places)

(or we should compare alice coltrane and sun ra by engaging in debate over the viability of their esoteric philosophies)

(i would even debate the contention that reading iceberg slim will deepen my appreciation for james brown, it's not enough just to realize that he shoehorns criminal slang into the service of a loose statement of civil rights, which in turn is shoehorned into a loose statement on the primacy of his funk band)

We got people here saying G. Clinton is more interesting than J. Brown JUST BECAUSE he sings about spaceships.

All I'm saying is that RZA's book is relatively ill-informed on all things not directly Wu.

That's ridiculous?

Back yo shit up!

but is he a better songwriter than richard berry because bible references "mean something", and "louie, louie" doesn't?

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and to that and shmool's post, i say, wtf else is it supposed to be?

"a classic in the genre of music literature"

"a very rich intellectual and spiritual body of knowledge"

sure on both, hstencil! (although honestly i think an academic tome on the "meaning" of rap music isn't really needed right now.)

i'm just saying that i don't think claims for and against jay-z need be made exclusively--or even most interestingly--on the level of his songs' *meaning*. the same goes for the wu-tang! the most boring rapper on earth could posit numerology as his guiding inspiration and we wouldn't give a fuck! i grant that this book looks pretty fucking interesting, but that's primarily because the wu-tang are a great hip-hop act (or acts). i.e. they make interesting, exciting MUSIC.

i don't know who that was addressed to exactly, but i guess i felt like part of this discussion was proceeding along false premises.

the only thing i am taking issue with is the idea that the wu's harebrained kung fu jibber-jabber is what animates their raps, and not the other way around.

but no, it was the other way around.

FOR A REASON, I TELL YOU

the one mentioned upthread when you stated you didn't care about his cosmology, and several people piped in to say that the book did a, ahem, fascinating job of explaining it. perhaps if you READ it, you will be fascinated too. Maybe you'll even want to take 3 undergrad courses on Sun Ra.

i'm just saying that i don't think claims for and against jay-z need be made exclusively--or even most interestingly--on the level of his songs' *meaning*. the same goes for the wu-tang!

I agree, I don't think anyone's arguing for looking at "meaning" exclusively, though. It's just one way of trying to understand these artists.

hey, come on now. you accused me of insinuating you were a nazi. you are clearly insinuating i am a pretentious idiot!

i just meant to illustrate, by personal experience, that sketching out the material details is not the only way to analyze texts.

-- hstencil (hstenc!...), March 2nd, 2005 1:09 PM

??? looks like someone's never heard "The 10 Crack Commandments."

cause RZA wrote a book elucidating all that shit, and I've heard him talk about other similar stuff in interviews. I haven't heard Jay Z explain himself in a similar fashion. I'm sure some of Jay's meanings are intened. I'm not saying he's a dolt incapable of understanding the signifigance of what he's saying. Still, he seems to have produced music that touches on a narrower range of topics, which makes me think he was influenced by a narrower range of source material

i'd also like to know how his argument is different from the classic argument of "oh the people who make [music x] don't actually MEAN anything deep, that's just interpretation from outside"

it's not. critics and academics need to make a living. i like how you could pull out the racist accusations when jay and rza are both black. neat trick!

meanwhile i inexplicably get called out on my views about the tamil tigers, even though i've never posted to an MIA thread - is it cause i'm black??

no dipshit, it was to illustrate the point that fascination and belief are very complex things, even when it comes to the daughter of Arular. Read Xgau's essay.

http://www.bway.net/~hunger/ulysses.html

you're all jumping down vahid's throat when all he's done is suggest that maybe a rapper isn't more interesting simply because their lyrical references are more esoteric. i really can't see what's so outlandish about that argument?!

oops - ok you said 'deep' not interesting but again, the source material for the refs has little to do with this, you surely agree?

x-post no worries, i've ordered the book already! i can't wait - i love trivia!

I would love to see someone attempt this argument.

the book disproves this rather overstated claim.

it's because you're reading everybody wrong.

and that's silly as all hell.

Compared to Jay-Z?

but no, i didn't and yet you keep cracking wise on my educational background.

you ARE a very rude person.

but at the same time, just because the RZA can write 25 pages on his connection to kung-fu doesn't necessarily strengthen his music from a critical perspective, or make his metaphors any better.

if you or i can't understand his references after exhaustive close reading (i've been listening to 36 chambers since it came out, probably like most people on this thread) i'd say the devices are of dubious quality.

i've never noticed any masonic references in their music, and even if you were to pick out 50 for me i really doubt it'd change my opinion of wu tang. it's a silly level on which to appreciate music. maybe it's fun, but whatever. i'd rather judge them on flows, beats, showmanship, etc...

i'll even judge them on lyrics, but to give you YET ANOTHER ANALOGY, i don't see how knowing who leonard cohen is singing about in each and every song helps me understand his method any better, or helps me understand what makes his music great. it's just trivia, for fans. i don't mean to say he hasn't lived a life, or to call his life trivial, but that's what that sort of specific knowledge is to me, as a listener - it's a trivial part of my appreciation of the music, esp when compared to the poetics, the delivery, the songwriting...

marissa merchant can write 25 pages daily, apparently, on her devotion to her music and her idiosyncratic worldview, it doesn't make her off-key singing any more bearable, right? she still sucks, right??

btw omari grandberry of B2K (omarion) just wrote a 100+ page book about his experiences. now next time somebody makes fun of b2k i'm going to say "oh you absolutely MUST read the book, i can't believe you're calling b2k trivial"

the thing about the wu is that despite these many layers, they have trouble doing anything but piling words and images on top of one another. that's why people are always calling their music "a dense free-associative stew" or something like that (or when they're being mean about it, you could call it "long strings of nouns"). i think this is actually one of their strengths, but it reaches sort of comical proportions in second-string wu members like killah priest, or in non-wu-but-still-sorta-wu people like divine styler.

i guess part of the interest in current ghostface is that (unlike, um, u-god or rza) he's been able to move past that cliche.

jay-z has punchlines and interesting narrative schemes. 2pac was the master storyteller. b.i.g. concentrated on developing godlike delivery. you could write books on those things.

-- hstenci

eat a bag of dicks, vahid.

As far as I can tell, no one is judging them exclusively on that basis. But to say that having a larger palette of subject matter to draw from is irrelevant to the quality of the music as a whole, I think, is a narrow-minded claim. It's also far from silly to include it in criteria from which to draw in terms of judging music. Look, for example, at the Streets. I think the cultural basis for Skinner's lyrics alone gave him an audience and acclaim that he couldn't have had had he just retread traditional lyrical material like battle rhyming and self-aggrandizing. I'm not saying that the music and the flow are not important, but it seems apparent to me that the background behind his lyrics are absolutely crucial to his being heralded as a good lyricist. Likewise, I'd be very surprised if you said that you'd judge a poet exclusively on their words, but not the richness of their references or analogies. How could you possibly appreciate poetry on that basis?

For god's sake it's not his connection to kung-fu, it's his connection to kung-fu movies! It's like you keep going on and on about how RZA is not really into kung-fu, he just likes kung-fu movies when that's exactly the whole point! Some people like reading about kung-fu movies. Believe it or not I actually took a class in college about kung-fu movies. I know you'll probably think I made that up as a jab at you but that's actually a fact.

And what possible relevance do Tupac and Biggie have to this discussion? They're dead. They're never going to write books about themselves so it's a moot point.

i think that's a very good point about the streets

but the problem is with the idea of "the richness" of reference. yes shelley and yeats did have a way with reference but in the progression from shelley--->yeats you end up at the impasse of late victorian poetry, you get this sort of parlor game of constructing these extremely dense combinations of classical allusions.

so you have a modernist response: either get rid of it altogether (carlos williams), find a new source outside of your culture for a new set of allusions (ezra pound's chinese translations), mix up the classical with the specifics of yr local cultural ghetto (yeats' great trick, maybe the wu's too), or play with the unsettling effect of making them as vague as possible (ee cummings).

so i'd say there's no "richness" in allusion or reference in terms of quantity or source, we can only judge how well they integrate their use of allusion into the play of ... um ... other stuff in the text.

i hope my objections don't keep anybody from enjoying their purchase.

=(

but definitely, skinner's not whatever roll deep is, and knowing that there's a difference there certainly animates my listening experience with the streets.

Anyone on this thread that truly believes that there is depth and originality to the Wu's music if you pull out all the kung fu cinema influences is a fucking idiot.

Oh wait that's most of you. Never mind.

Keep sucking tha RZA's dick. You're choking so hard, you've lost your common sense...

there are whole Wu albums (not to mention hit songs) that don't even mention this. If you really think the Kung Fu thing is the critical link that holds it all together, your conception is based on a stereotype of their sound. I think only a neophyte or casual Wu listener would entertain such notions about them.

Keep sucking tha RZA's dick. You're choking so hard, you've lost your common sense...

Honestly, Solana, your point of view seems much more extreme than most of ours. We're just saying that it's interesting to read how RZA's influences shaped the Clan; no one is claiming that RZA is an authority on any of these subjects. I speak for myself when I say that reading about this gave their music a depth that I was previously unable to tap into. But for the most part, you're getting caught up in imaginary arguments.

"Incarcerated Scarfaces" (1995)

Intro: [lp version]

He looks determined without being ruthless
Something heroic in this man, there’s a courage about him
Doesn’t look like a killer
Comes across so calm, acts like he has a dream
Full of passion

You don’t trust me huh?
Well you know why
I do, we’re not supposed to trust anyone in our profession anyway

Intro two: raekwon the chef

Knock niggaz out the box all the time
Bitches on my motherfuckin records pah
Big ones, yeah, big fuckers
Straight up, fuck your whole team
Yeah bust it
Yo, yo, fly g.i. niggaz

Chorus: raekwon the chef

Now yo yo, whattup yo, time is runnin out
It’s for real though, let’s connect politic - ditto!
We could trade places, get lifted in the staircases
Word up, peace incarcerated scarfaces

Verse one: raekwon the chef

Thug related style attract millions
Fans, they understand my plan
Who’s the kid up in the green land?
Me and the rza connect, blow a fuse, you lose
Half-ass crews get demolished and bruised
Fake be frontin, hourglass heads niggaz be wantin
Shuttin down your slot; time for pumpin
Poisonous sting which thumps up and act chumps
Raise a heavy generator
But yo, guess who’s the black trump?
Dough be flowin by the hour’s
Wu, we got the collars, scholars
Word life, peace to power and my whole unit
Word up! quick to set it, don’t wet it
Real niggas lick shots, peace kinetic

Chorus

Verse two: raekwon the chef

Chef’ll shine like marble, rhyme remarkable
Real niggaz raise up, spend your money, argue
But this time is for the uninvited
Go head and rhyme to it, big nigga mics is gettin fired
Morphine chicks be burnin like chlorine
Niggaz recognize from here to baltimore to fort greene
But hold up, moet be tastin like throw-up
My mob roll up, dripped to death whips rolled up
Ya never had no wins, slidin in these dens wit timbs
Wit mac-10’s and broke friends
Ya got guns, got guns too, what up son, do
You wanna battle for cash and see who sun too?
I probably wax, tax, smack rap niggaz who fax
Niggaz lyrics is wack nigga
Can’t stand unofficial, wet tissue, blank bustin scud missles
You rollin like trump, you get your meat lumped
For real, it’s just slang rap democracy
Here’s the policy, slide off the ring, plus the wallabees
Check the status, soon to see me at
Caesar’s palace eatin salads
We beatin mics and the keys to dallas
I move rhymes like retail, make sure shit sell
From where we at to my man’s cell
From staircase to stage, minimun wage
But soon to get a article in rappage
But all I need is my house, my gat, my ac
Bank account fat - it’s goin’ down like that
And pardon the french but let me speak italian
Black stallion, dwellin on shaolin
That means the island of staten
And niggaz carry gats and mad police from manhattan

Chorus

Verse three: raekwon the chef

I do this for barber shop niggaz in the plaza
Catchin asthma, rae is stickin gun-flashers
Well-dressed, skatin through the projects wit big ones
Broke elevators, turn the lights out, stick one
Upstairs, swithc like a chameleon
Hip brazilians, pass the cash or leave your children
Leave the buildin
Niggas, yo they be foldin’ like envelopes under pressure
Like lou farigno on coke
Yo, africans denyin niggaz up in yellow cabs
Musty like funk, wavin they arms, the arabs
Sit back, coolin like kahlua’s on rocks
On the crack spots, rubberband wrapped on my knots
You bitches who fuck dreds on sudafeds
Pussy’s hurtin, they did it for a yard for the feds
Word up cousin, nigga, I seen it
Like a 27-inch zenith - believe it!

Chorus

...politic ditto
...get lifted in the staircases

(and before Solana opens up with any other stupid ideas, please note that John Woo's "The Killer" is not a kung-fu movie)

MY POINT all along has been that the Wu is no deeper than any other hip-hop artist, and that most of their mystique is built of straw.

And GIVE ME A BREAK, Shakey: if you take out the kung fu elements, they don't even have A NAME....

Way to be dismissive. You didn't even address his statement. And what about CREAM? It doesn't mention kung fu at all. Do you even own a single wu album?

except for all their OTHER NAMES: the nine generals, killa beez, hot nickels, bobby digi, dirt mcgirt, pretty toney, the genius... seriously, stop typing now while you're ahead.

Ok, sure, CREAM is not a "kung fu" song. And it's not even the only Wu song with no "kung fu" to it. Great point. You're a fucking genius. As a matter of fact, you're THE GENIUS. THE GZA.

Explain to me why RZA having other names like "Bobby Digital", etc., makes him such a diverse talent.

I guess my being "Solana Surfmastaz" and "Solana II" makes me an artist, too.

Why don't you STOP TYPING, seriously.

Um, then will someone explain to me why the Wu-related album sales have steadily NOSE-DIVED since, dare I say it, '98?

I'll take a guess for you: lack of range, lack of diversity.

sales are apropos of nothing, what kind of strawman is that to bring in to this thread?

READ THAT

Hey Solana, you should learn to have a constructive argument before coming on here and unloading all this nastiness and negativity. Seriously, these unnecessarily confrontational and rude comments are reducing the level of discourse.

do your homework. the guy plays six different instruments. not to mention the awesome production he did for Liquid Swords and Only Built For Cuban Linx
xpost

please listen to all the solo albums and come back.

xpost

AGAIN, my points have been two-fold: that the Wu's mystique is surface-level, and therefore not REALLY that interesting, because their references are pretty obvious to anyone who knows a bit more about pop culture than the average person (and most people on ILM do). AND, that the basis of their whole aesthetic is built around kung fu cinema references.

And of course my first point is arguable, but my second is just A FACT.

What kind of responses do I get? "Dude, can you even READ?"

RZA: "Even though it's going to take a while for the Wu-Tang to "marinate" and come back together like they once hoped, RZA said not to count out a reunion album later in the year, "maybe fourth quarter," after they get out a few more solo projects: "Let the big boys come out one more time." So far, Busta Rhymes will executive produce the upcoming Raekwon album — a sort of part two to Only Built 4 Cuban Linx — since 2005 marks the 10th anniversary of that album, RZA said, while he's going to turn his attention to Method Man.

"Method Man is about to start his new album, and they told him to choose a producer, and he chose me!" RZA said in somewhat disbelief. "Wow. At this level, he can get anyone to do his album, especially for the kind of money he can get his budgets and sh--, excuse my language. But he asked me.""

x-x-post

No. It isn't. And we have a 200-page book to prove it.

x-post

these are all recurring themes, integrated into the sounds/rhymes/design of the records, etc. that don't have anything to do with kung-fu movies.

I've spent a total of about 45 minutes on ILM in the past year (yes, on this thread alone, that's it), primarily because most of you know-it-alls eventually reduce the conversation to a series of insults or one-ups, none of which is based in fact, including the initial argument, because you can't accept that people having varying perspectives on the music you think you know so much about.

I jumped into this thread because I know a few people in it and the "level of discourse" had already reduced below tolerable, primarily for the reasons I mentioned above.

But see, it's real easy to get caught up in arguing for the sake of arguing. I've done it right here in this thread.

Shmool, the only thing more factual than the Wu foundation being a built on kung fu cinema themes, is that you're a fucking asshole. I'd add in that you're also probably a major league geek with serious social problems (I mean, you do spend HOURS a day on ILM, right?), cumpulsive masturbation issues (virgin? come on- admit it), and got beat up a bunch as a kid, but that would just be a guess on my part, based only on the FACT that you act like a TWAT.

Please shut this stupidity down and kick me the fuck out of this.

i think the problem started when posters began asking the rhetorical (and implicitly loaded) question, "who else in hip-hop could write a book this dense and allusive?" well, probably no one, and that's definitely worth noting. and it's worth noting that density and allusiveness is a major part of the wu-tang's aesthetic. and thus the book could help to sharpen our appreciation of that aesthetic. but it's also worth saying clearly (though it's been said on this thread a few times with varying degrees of clarity) that this is but one way to appreciate hip-hop, one possible value of an infinite set of values, and it doesn't even (nearly) exhaust the appeal of the wu-tang clan. i don't think saying any of that discounts the fact that this is probably a really enjoyable and interesting book.

i should add that i have my doubts that the theories advanced in this book (if indeed there are theories advanced in the book) are probably less interesting in themselves (indeed, i have no doubt that some of them are likely quite dubious, if the interviews i've read with rza and other wu-tang members are a good basis for speculation) than as a kind of key to appreciating one aspect of the wu-tang's music. also there's kind of inherent fascination in seeing all these stray bits of culture collide and echo each other--sort of a formal interest, the interest of patterns.

i should add that i have my doubts that the theories advanced in this book (if indeed there are theories advanced in the book) are very interesting in themselves ...

but at the same time, just because the RZA can write 25 pages on his connection to kung-fu doesn't necessarily strengthen his music from a critical perspective, or make his metaphors any better.

if you or i can't understand his references after exhaustive close reading (i've been listening to 36 chambers since it came out, probably like most people on this thread) i'd say the devices are of dubious quality.

i've never noticed any masonic references in their music, and even if you were to pick out 50 for me i really doubt it'd change my opinion of wu tang. it's a silly level on which to appreciate music. maybe it's fun, but whatever. i'd rather judge them on flows, beats, showmanship, etc...

I agree with all that. I don't think anyone ever said that wu having all these strains of references running through their music make them better than anyone else. Just that they are there, and that many of us, as fans, find it interesting. It's not like when I'm listening to some Wu I'm like "wow did you catch that comic reference?! DOPE!". I pay little attention to lyrics, so I tend to focus on flows, beats, etc, too.
It's like me and Shakey et al. were saying "these layers are there, and they're not in jay or biggie" with no inherent value judgment, and vahid et al. took that to mean "these layers are there, and they are objectively interesting and IMPORTANT, and this makes the wu so much better than anyone else"

One of the early arguments of this thread suggested that the intentional layers added by the Wu to their lyrics somehow made them deeper than the lyrics of, for example, Jay Z, because much of the subtext to Jay Z's music is added after the fact, by others, and is therefore unintentional.

What some people (myself included) were suggesting is that the above "Wu is deeper" argument is simply not true, because while nobody argues that the Wu does indeed layer their lyrics, those layers are often made of straw, ala 5% philosophy, and that while it might be a fun bit of word-play to drop in a refernce to 5%, or Masons, or the like, if that's what you're into, in the end it is no more profound to the listener than fact-checking Jay Z's reference to his old neighborhood.

I personally would find cruising the neighborhoods that Jay Z raps about far more enlightening than reading up on some 5% faux attempt at science and numerology, but that's just me...

EXCEPT THAT NOBODY MADE THIS ARGUMENT (w/the exception of one post from (o)oops where he said "kinda does [make them deeper]")

k thx bye

See, you can't even return to the argument without picking a fight.

"EXCEPT THAT NOBODY MADE THIS ARGUMENT (w/the exception of..."

um.....?

I was actually in the proj playing basketball with some friends I had there, so there was no sociological study going on at the time...

I personally would find cruising the neighborhoods that Jay Z raps about far more enlightening...

that makes me weirdly uncomfortable. Maybe it's just the word "cruising."

I've actually been to housing projects in Brooklyn, to play basketball, but I took the subway and walked, and didn't try to buy any drugs.

Um, but what about this whole business about Wu lyrics being multi-layered?

I mean, did anyone here really read the RZA's book and see the references and feel MORE enlightened than the way they felt the first time they heard Enter the 36 Chambers?

Among other reasons, the Wu impresses because they incorporat(ed) a whole variety of distinct voices and styles into their sound and brought a cinematic element to their beats that was previously unheard in hip-hop (at least not in their distinct fashion).

The relevence of the whole 5% hocus pocus seems pointless by comparison, simply because 5% is hocus pocus. It lacks deeper meaning because it's a sham.

I doubt most people here would stop and have a two hour discussion with a homeless man who stopped them on the street and started rattling off 5% ideology, so reading RZA's take and taking it as enlightening seems silly to me...

Except that the part in the book about 5% ideology only took me 5 minutes to read and I was on the toilet in the comfort of my own home. At least he didn't spend too much time talking about that even bigger sham known as the Bible. That definitely would have irritated me.

i don't know whether it's more irritating if the rza et al actually have taken some of the more outlandish ideas that pepper their music to heart, or if they are just sort of dabbling in psuedo-profundity and received "heaviness" (as i'm generally inclined to think) as a kind of half-hustle.

anyway i'm not taking that bait, and not just because i'm not very interested in "jay-z as black capitalist" theories. i think these externals are sort of a red herring, if you're interested you should go for a close reading of his lyrics.

but if you really need a book, he's got one coming out! there's an excerpt in the liners to "the black album" and true to style it's not particularly philosophical. the excerpt read like an overwritten take on the thompson/mccain school of self-incriminatory noir (it's a page of him agonizing over making some woman friend of his carry drugs for him, if i remember right)

larger picture as in "my community" instead of "me"

well, i'm not sure as to the mechanis of how an interview (or a documentary, or a concert) is any more faitful a document of the artist's "intention".

i am very very leery of examining artist's intentions - hstencil's objection upthread be damned - and would prefer to focus first on their work, esp when there's not the same sort of historical distance and perspective you'd have with say, a book about miles davis or whatever.

so is it telling or not that jay-z's favorite slang for drugs is "work"?

haha come on now that's facile silly.

yes i agree it's weird to call them "building maintenance technicians" but only because it's tough to show that there's any "technique" to mopping a floor that the layperson doesn't possess. (part of my job is mopping a floor, i received no training in that field, i hesitate to call myself a technician)

anyway i'm not sure how the critique of intellectual language plays into this.

slapping academic names on stuff to sound smart probably won't help you understand a text, you're right about that. i think wasting too much time learning background info about a text probably won't help either (you just need "basic competency", i know what kung fu movies are about, what gangster movies are about, who's ironman and what's a "seed" and a "sun" and "an earth", in general so i don't really feel i need the rza's book)

trying to watch how the metre and storytelling and (especially!) the wordplay works in jay-z or wu-tang track is probably the best way to go. since i'm not really a good enough rapper to come up with great wordplay on my own (humorous understatement alert) i don't really feel like i've read too much into jay-z when i detect it there.

i can't tell you about jay-z's "black capitalist philosophy" cause i don't think it's really there

didn't you and others go on about how obvious wu's references were, and how could anyone learn anything from the book that they didn't know already?!
anyway, no it doesn't. the lyrics section is more of a "see? remember that shit about ironman you about? you know, in the 200 pages that weren't notes on our lyrics....i told that's what ghost is talking about there".

okay, so you've figured out how it works. what then? are you then able to create raps like jay's or ghost's? i doubt it. (not saying this is what you're arguing, just like, what exactly is the point of a close reading? what do you gain from analysis?)(i wish there was a way to type a question so it *doesn't* sound rhetorical)

he really does have this obsession with cause-and-effect that runs through all of his songs, it's just how he tells stories and how he relates meaning (just like the wu do with metaphor and free association).

check a song like "coming of age". he and memphis bleek trade off verses narrating an imaginary confrontation. as they move through their verses they move forward in time through the confrontation (jay jumps out of his car, bleek says hi, jay gets suspicious, they hug, etc) - the interesting thing is that in each verse instead of moving linearly forward they start waaay back in the past and narrate a string of historical events that moves up to the present moment (like in the 2nd verse, instead of examining the present, bleek examines the weeks of drugs, uncertainty and hanging out with the wrong crowd that has led up to his present mindstate, only finishing with "hey jay, what's up?")

he may not use words like "temporality" but neither would writers like borges or marquez or mutis, who uses the same techniques in their stories (except admittedly on a much much grander scale), it doesn't mean the technique isn't there, or it isn't interesting to study it.

more relevantly you could look at how someone like tarantino uses these techniques. i'm not sure why you'd give him the pass on "artistry" but not jay-z, solely because he mentions the french new wave in his interviews but jay-z doesn't. remember, jay-z is interviewing for a different audience than tarantino!

the point of a close reading, i think, is to try to understand *what* exactly makes a text compelling. i don't mean you have to listen to something and then rephrase what just happened in academic language. but when i'm not sure what others are hearing in something that i don't think is all that great, usually i just listen closely, pay attention and try to reconstruct why the audience is enjoying it.

ask any high school student why he likes tupac and he'll say "he tells good stories!". they may not have the language to explain what a good story is the way an english teacher might but i don't think it's crazy to assume that they're hearing the same qualities instinctively.

(don't quiz me too closely on that assertion cause i don't really listen to tupac so i couldn't explain his storytelling skills)

are you sure this is what they'd say? I'm not.

the interesting thing about 5%ers isn't their beliefs, at all. It is interesting (to me, maybe not to anybody else) how 5% philosophy evolved as a social movement, and how something so obscure (basically a very small New York-based movement) now gets heard by people around the world thanks to, you guessed it, hip-hop. I'm sorry, that's just interesting to me! I can't really explain why, but there it is.

Turn my music high, high, high, high-er
{*"You don't know.. what you're doing, doing, doing, doing.."*}
Sure I do..

I'm from the streets where the
hood could swallow a man, bullets'll follow a man
There's so much coke that you could run the slalom
And cops comb the shit top to bottom
They say that we are prone to violence, but it's home sweet home
Where personalities clash and chrome meets chrome
The coke prices up and down like it's Wall Street homes
But this is worse than the Dow Jones your brains are now blown
all over that brown Brougham, one slip you are now gone
Welcome to hell where you are welcome to sell
But when them shells come you better return 'em
All scars we earn 'em, all cars we learn 'em like the back of our hand
We watch for cops hoppin out the back of van
Wear a G on my chest, I don't need Dapper Dan
This ain't a sewn outfit homes, homes is about it
Was clappin them flamers before I became famous
For playin me y'all shall forever remain nameless
I am Hov'

Sure I do, I tell you the difference between me and them
They tryin to get they ones, I'm tryin to get them M's
One million, two million, three million, four
In just five years, forty million more
You are now lookin at the forty million boy
I'm rapin Def Jam 'til I'm the hundred million man
R., O., C.

{*"You don't know.. what you're doing, doing, doing, doing.."*}
That's where you're wrong

I came into this motherfucker a hundred grand strong
Nine to be exact, from grindin G-packs
Put this shit in motion ain't no rewindin me back
Could make 40 off a brick but one rhyme could beat that
And if somebody woulda told 'em that Hov' would sell clothin
Heh, not in this lifetime, wasn't in my right mind
That's another difference that's between me and them
Heh, I'm smarten up, open the market up
One million, two million, three million, four
In eighteen months, eighty million more
Now add that number up with the one I said before
You are now lookin at one smart black boy
Momma ain't raised no fool
Put me anywhere on God's green earth, I'll triple my worth
Motherfucker - I, will, not, lose

{*"You don't know.. what you're doing, doing, doing, doing.."*}
Put somethin on it

I sell ice in the winter, I sell fire in hell
I am a hustler baby, I'll sell water to a well
I was born to get cake, move on and switch states
Cop the Coupe with the roof gone and switch plates
Was born to dictate, never follow orders
Dickface, get your shit straight, fucka this is Big Jay
I.. hahahaha..

{*"You don't know.. what you're doing, doing, doing, doing.."*}
.. will, not, lose, ever.. FUCKA!

Method Man's doped-up ass would NEVER have the self-discipline to be a true master of the eternal spirit!

Satori4Life -- I'm out!

http://www.crystalcavern.com/media/indian-buddha.jpg

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13

good interview

http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee39/samgezee/wu.jpg

Anyone read "Tao of Wu," the followup to "the Wu-Tang Manual"? I've been reading that, and it's quite good! It's a cross between an autobiography and an insight into the influences behind Wu-Tang. Highly recommended, even more than "the Wu-Tang Manual," in my opinion.

Please, please, please

Explain to me why RZA having other names like "Bobby Digital", etc., makes him such a diverse talent.

I guess my being "Solana Surfmastaz" and "Solana II" makes me an artist, too.

Why don't you STOP TYPING, seriously.

― Solana II - The Return, Thursday, March 3, 2005 7:33 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is it possible this was the first incarnation of Raccoon Tanuk

Having trained as a shaolin for four INTENSE years I think I can say authoritatively that the Wu's version is a watered down sellout intended for mass consumption. They clearly don't understand the first thing about the eightfold path. The Third Noble Truth is that individuality must be OVERCOME! In all their marketing I don't see any overcoming of individuality -- exactly the opposite in fact!
Method Man's doped-up ass would NEVER have the self-discipline to be a true master of the eternal spirit!

Satori4Life -- I'm out!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, March 6, 2005 5:33 PM bookmarkflaglink

p.s. if you look closely he's holding a pred ship:

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, March 6, 2005 5:51 PM bookmarkflaglink