Kanye West....is he as good as he tells us he is?

I reckon, production-wise, yeah he really is that good. "Cultural parameter reallignment" is not always necessary.

S.

but these are is only minor objections. i actually think that you might like the album.

I don't know what you mean by real vs sincere anyway. That argument, whether in rock or hip-ho, always struck me as pointless. Who knows and who cares?

YOu'd have to point out specific examples of Kanye's conceit, lovebug. The most charming tracks on the album - "Family Business" and "Spaceship" - undercuts whatever conceit you point out.

Now THERE'S a typo.

*** "I'm a pretty smart dude. I knew that if I could rap even anywhere near the caliber of my beats, I would kill the game," Kanye, a couple of weeks removed from the listening sessions, surmised modestly. "Murder the game." ***

***"Would it be arrogance or confidence?" he questioned. "Because I'm outspoken? Or because I feel confident? I feel like I have the right to tell you. My thing is, I just like to debate. I really like my raps. ... But it's not from arrogance, it's from me just debating and wanting to get my point across. Like, 'You all need to understand.' Any situation I'm in, I just wanna stand out." ***

***I think I've got a lot of growing to do," he admitted. "I've got a lot of energy. I'm growing and growing every day, and I'm finding out ways to wear my success with more dignity. The younger you are, the newer your money is, the more ignorant you're gonna act. I need to learn and have the opportunity to be around people like Quincy Jones and Oprah Winfrey." ***

Does this include the large percentage of the critical community who voted for it as album of the year?

how reductionist can you get? if we can't talk about his work in a fair and representative manner, we will get nowhere.

Rob Base & EZ Rock to thread. (not to mention Arrested Development)

That 0.001 % of the world's population maybe not, indeed.

did you hear that last album? it was so bad that it almost hurt my feelings.

Far, far less than that. That same poll also made Arrested Development and fucking Wilco their number one albums once, but, hey, that's life. Are you trying to reignite the tired critics-don't-listen-to-the-real-people argument?

Hey, you forgot the first dash! I'm usually very tired myself.

Kanye's sound is pretty great, and a year and half ago anyway, it was pretty fresh sounding. He's not a great wordplay rapper, but his willingness to go where other rappers won't (ie: talk honestly about his life, and not just the parts that lend themselves to macho bragging) gets him a lot of credit.

That said, I do think the album got a bit overrated (I plead guilty to that myself.) The high points are damn high, but there's a fair chunk of forgettable mediocre stuff on it, too. In some ways I'll tke a solid-all-the-way-through but not nearly so innovative record way ahead of one like "College Dropout" My choice for hiphop album of the year is either "Murs 3:16" or Azeem "Show Business." Murs, by the way, has a lot in common in his lyrical attitude to Kanye, although he's not so prone to talking himself up as the second coming of Stevie Wonder or some shit in interviews. Then again, he's been making records a lot longer and a lot closer to the ground than Kanye has, and has never hit the same kind of mega-success. If he had, who knows how that would've affected his outlook?

So what if it isn't?

no intention to do THAT at all...brr

But it is true. cos my sister prefers Usher way above Annie and while 'Can't Get You Out Of My Head' by dear Kylie is seen as the greatest popsong of alltime by critics, my sister (as a poplistener) hates that song with a passion. just saying...not relevant to this discussion at all..forgive me

I start not liking him and end up in a discussion like this!

And I don't think Alex is making an argument so much as asking a question. In a batty self-important way.

"I would accept Alex's argument if he'd actually listened to the whole album."

Admittedly, after all our jive he probably wants to flush it down the toilet (I kinda feel that way now).

dr. dre or andre3000? if its the first one, HAHAHAH. dre has never been remotely sincere and real! mwahahaha.

It's not an argument. It's a question.

And I don't think Alex is making an argument so much as asking a question. In a batty self-important way.

Quasi-OTM, but in what way is my question "self-important"?

If Alex had listened to the entire album, then I could accept his questions.

Well, if I listened to the album, there's a very great chance I wouldn't need to ask any questions about Kanye, y'know? Perhaps i should've typed "RFI" in the title. This is not a piss-take or a wind-up. Sheesh.

(Alex, saw a copy of Killing Joke's Greatest Hits in the used bin and started laughing. I had never even heard of them until a few weeks ago, and now it seems like they're everywhere haha)

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), February 12th, 2005.

i hear you, alex. i think your question was perfectly valid, curious and sincere. f**k the hataz. and i still think that you should give the album a chance. it is actually a classic, no matter the guy's larger-than-life stance and all. and i'm addicted to 'breathe in, breathe out' feat. luda right now. that's all i know ....

"If it were 1989, Kanye's album would be average at best."

I don't understand this sentiment at all.

This whole thread is kind of wacky I think. Comparing Kanye to Arrested Development?! Except, you know, Kanye is really popular.

how many records did Arrested Development sell? they sure were on MTV a lot, and they went like 3 singles deep.

dude better watch himself

-- miccio (anthonyisrigh...), February 13th, 2005.

Heh. Would there still be Freudian slips if Freud hadn't been born? If not, I thank him for the entertainment value.

Alex, never mind if he came across as a fool at the Grammys. The album is hust really, really good. Period. If you are letting a whack performance get in the way of a great album, it's your loss. But as a Kanye ambassadeur I'd hate to see that happen ...

no it isn't

(I've listened to the whole thing about 10 times, in the spirit of research)

Regarding Kanye's performance, watching someone make an utterly spectacular jackass of themselves doesn't really endear me to them (I can hear it now: "b-b-b-b-but Alex, you're a Kiss fan!"). True, but once he did that dancing in silhouette business, my stomach positively turned.....to say nothing of the fuckin' angels wings. Also, he's a BIG FUCKIN' JESUS FREAK, which really doesn't fly well with me ("b-b-b-b-b-but Alex, so are U2!" ) Yeah, and they sucked last night too!

Seriously, I'll give the man a pass. Grammy's don't mean anything, nor does the performance, but the Jesus thing is a huge turnoff.

Jay-Kid is right: you have to accept some of the genre's paradigms.

Closest to how I feel. And these all sound good next to anything from 1989...

OTMx1000. The last track is really just unforgiveable. There's some really great stuff on the rest of the album - "Workout Plan", "All Fall Down", "Thru the Wire", "Jesus Walks" - and I think it maintains a pretty high level of quality throughout, but by the end of that last side - yikes.

Rappers closing albums with the stories of their lives from birth to the present: classic or dud?

Kanye OTM.

http://blissout.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_blissout_archive.html

* My favorite track on College Dropout is the oft-maligned finale, “Last Call.” KW took real risks with this one, I think, not just through doing such a protracted and self-reflexive track but through his demystifying the hip hop industry, both through detailing the career moves and games you have to play (like the cringy-but-hilarious bit where he’s sycophantic to Jay-Z) to get anywhere, and through letting in the hum-drum (the oft-cited references to shopping at IKEA). What’s really touching is the sense of precariousness. At certain points in the long, long track (which always induces in me the feeling “when it’s going to stop?” then “actually, I don’t want it to stop”), you really feel like he’s not going to make it--that Kanye’s ascent wasn’t at all inevitable, he could easily have failed. Then from that, you get a painful glimpse of how contingent everything is in life, how much the breaks you get or don’t get play in determining outcomes, all the different places you could be in your own life if something had gone just a little bit different. There’s one bit where he’s discouraged by some setback, by how long it’s taking to get anywhere, and the music gets really tentative and crestfallen-sounding, almost idyllictronica-wistful. Always brings a tear to my eye.

It's not meant to be listened to in my opinion - it's just an addendum. I do listen to it from time to time and I find the whole track just extremely funny - even though I realize he's being serious. He knows he's good and achieved his goal so he's entitled to a bit of ego-stroking. would you have preferred if he was modest? I wouldn't. I find his rapping to be just good, I don't think I could have taken it if it was as good as his production, I'd have exploded in a million orgasms.

***Does not compute***

that's the point, and obviously where some of us differ from the many lovers, he isn't good. Not at rapping, he should stick to making beats for Brandy. imho

Frankly, yes.

MTV: [To Kanye] How do you feel about not being the underdog any more?

West: Naw, it's not the favorite, it's the "I can't wait for him to drop some weak sh-- so I can ..." That's what I am! I'm the dude that talked way too much sh--, and now I gotta back it up.

Mayer: Do you wish you hadn't?

West: No, not at all. I like it, it makes it funner.

Mayer: When I talk about Kanye, people go, "Well, let's talk about Kanye, because I did an interview with him a week ago, a month ago, a year ago, he was terrible, he was arrogant, he was stuck-up." And it's like, "You know what? The guy is smart enough to have a master plan, and part of his master plan is making you feel something about him." If Kanye is on the cover of a magazine, whether he's gonna make your blood boil or not, you're gonna wanna read it. There are too many boring-ass people in the world already.

I'm sorry but no.

Just giving a different opinion here!

How about after Killing Joke has any hits? ;)

There's more to life than "hits", little man, but yes they have....however few and far between they've been.

http://media.rapnewsdirect.com/ArtistPics/Kanye_West/t.180.fp.jpg

Kanye West Still Bitter

I like the whole "Nobody will play a song about Jesus" straw-man rap that won best rap song.

This is an interesting statement from Mr. John Mayer. It must be an expression of self-hatred.

Yeah, he's actually Jewish.

I'd like to address the accusation of Killing Joke being "pompous" if I may. While it's irrefutably true that Killing Joke are no strangers to the odd, arguably ludicrous statement of supreme pretentiousness, it should be noted that abject humility and great music (specifically great rock'n'roll) have never happily co-existed. I certainly wouldn't tag the Rolling Stones, Iggy Pop, Led Zepplin, the Sex Pistols, Pink Floyd, U2, Jane's Addiction, REM, Smashing Pumpkins (or any other universally established rock warhorse) with the label "humble." I doubt Oasis, Blur or the Stone Roses would've made as big a dent in their respective periods of stardom and acclaim by being timid, self- deprecating and soft-spoken. While I'm not excusing Killing Joke's alledeged pomposity, I wouldn't make it the main plank of my campaign in damning them.

So true. As a pretty nerdy guy myself I have a built-in system that detects nerdiness in people (kind of like homosexuals and gaydar) and Kanye West is one of us. Kanye West could blend in perfectly with me and my friends as we talk about PS2 v.s. Xbox and the possibilities of time travel with no problem. This one gamer person I know from a gaming board even grew up with him (I may have mentioned this before).

What's good all?

I'm not really trying to come off as a nerd, and I'm not really trying to blend with the types on this message board. (Some bad experiences, aright... no dis Cunga.)

But yo PS2 over Xbox anyday.

That's your boy...

Kanye

http://img432.imageshack.us/img432/4103/kanyewest42wg.jpg

The Carlton Banks' polo shirt is the Cosby sweater of the 00s!

According to PFM, Kanye is set to "sample" Daft Punk's Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. The song in question is called Stronger and is for the upcoming "The Graduate" album. Daft Punk is also set for a robot cameo in the video.

You know, at some point we need to grow a pair and start calling these things outright covers.

get well soon kayne :-(

Back in the old days, people wrote their own songs and played their own instruments, amirite?

Why does he say "hen fap" in Gold Digger?

<I>Back in the old days, people wrote their own songs and played their own instruments, amirite?</i>

Boom! Down goes the strawman!

The Reverend and I just need to form a duo where I'm his oddly dancing patsy upfront attracting the mockery and he's sitting back in his studio counting the gold.

http://www.uwlax.edu/BA/fin/images/extra/Counting%20Money.jpg

Precisely!

According to PFM, Daft are set to "sample" Edwin Birdsong's Cola Bottle Baby. The song in question is called Harder Better Faster Stronger and is for the upcoming "Discovery" album. Edwin Birdsong is also set for a robot cameo in the video.

You know, at some point we need to grow a pair and start calling these things outright covers.

The Wallace Collection, Gunter Kallman Choir, I Monster, Lupe Fiasco, etc.

wtf @ kanye rapping over daft punk?!!

-- and what, Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:15 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

who does he think he is, slum village?

-- and what, Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:15 PM (1 week ago) Bookmark Link

how soon we forget "Touch It"

i didnt spend the last 18 months with three different therapists to remember 'touch it'

hey now, kanye was on that slum village track too!

so i just put on this mixtape thing

the intro is over the actual daftpunk

which is a shame 4 him as he shows how badly he's done with the smaple in #2

then the next track has thom yorke on the hook

etc!

and before you ask -

13. Kanye West - Young Folks

.. yes.

whats that thing rap bloggers do? oh yeah, *smh*

Blog hip-house

My brother sent me this in an email:

ok so kanyes' mother died early this week and he has been in seclusion ever since. we can only assume he is about to drop the wackest/coolest/saddest lyrics of all time in a month or so..... with references to what happened to his mom during plastic surgery after how he had plastic surgery........its going to be dope.

"with references to what happened to his mom during plastic surgery after how he had plastic surgery" otm

Read something somewhere about "Kanye Drops Out Of Victoria Secret Show Shocker!" How exactly is that a fuckin' shocker?? <b>THE POOR MAN'S MOTHER JUST DIED!</b> Give a man a break.

a line break

fucking obnoxious: http://www.kanyeuniversecity.com/blog/?em3106=193659_-1__0_%7E0_-1_5_2008_0_0&entry=191082&em3161=&em3281=&entry=193659

scroll down a bit

that just makes him sound like a complete idiot.

"I don't care about anything but making great art."

Really

Someone post umaddoggie.gif

"Grab a drink, holla at some nice girls, and party bitch!! You don't know shit about passion and art. You'll never gain credibility at this rate. You're fucking trash! I make art. You can't rate this. I'm a real person. I'm not a pop star. I don't care about anything but making great art. Never come 2 one of my shows ever again, you're not invited and if you see me...BOW!! This is not pop, it's pop art!"

Entertainment Weekly doesn't care about black people.

BOW!!

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/142769-lollapalooza-report-sunday-scott-plagenhoef

This is framed as a Lollapalooza review, but scottpl makes a good argument for Kanye as the world's best pop star, even drawing some comparisons to someone else who's been called the "biggest celebrity in the world."

sorry, i couldn't see past the first 3 paragraphs about a non-musician who wasn't there.

Scott needs to tell us which other black people are like other black people as well.

Oh come on. All that stuff about Obama is partially why I think this is a better, or at least more thought-provoking, piece than most perfunctory festival wrap-ups.

Yeah, it's not bad once it gets going. I was just kind of caught off guard that a rumored appearance that ended up not happening, and was covered heavily elsewhere, took up such a big chunk of the piece.

Obama's such big news at the moment (even in the UK, I can't imagine what it must be like in the US) that you can't begrudge Scott engaging with the idea of his relationship to this event.

I think Scott's largely right about Kanye too, certainly in terms of Kanye's ambition to reach out, to cross demographics. I'm not sure if he's quite got the chops to do so yet (none of his albums, for me, have been fully GREAT so far, although all have fantastic moments), or the charisma, quite, but he's certainly doing it better than anyone else. Who are his contemporaries? Jay-Z? Chris Martin? Britney Spears? Justin Timberlake? Madonna? They all fall down in (numerous) ways that Kanye doesn't.

It's true, Kanye falls down in his own special, unique ways.

but hey

we ALL FALL DOWN

amirite

jay-z and madonna are not kanye's contemporaries by any stretch of the imagination

Why not?

unless u wanna define contemporary as "alive at the same time" or something

beyoncé is probably the biggest global superstar right now (or maybe shakira?) so she'd be the most apt comparison if we're talking biggest/best music celebrity

yeah, don't know where anyone would've gotten the idea that Jay-Z and Kanye West even belong in the same sentence.

Um, the fact that Kanye produced tracks for Jay-Z as his break, and that his debut album was released by Jay--Z's label, and that they both occupy the zone of multi-platinum selling hip hop artists, suggests they're contemporaries, surely? And Madonna is, you know, a big pop star (although clearly floundering right now) who has used her success and fame as a gateway into other ventures besides music (albeit generally without success).

I'm intrigued to know how Kanye has "explored architecture" according to Scott's piece?

x-post.

Maybe he got lost in one of the backstage areas.

Pretty sure the answer to this is Bono.

Chris Martin = the new, low-self-esteem Bono.

unless u wanna define contemporary as "alive at the same time" or something

-- lex pretend, Tuesday, August 5, 2008 3:42 PM (8 minutes ago) Bookmark Link

that IS how you define contemporary.

http://www.usabilidoido.com.br/imagens/mk_fatality.png

in this context it's generally taken to mean of or around the same age as u very well know, or shall we start calling miley cyrus a contemporary of meryl streep

why not - Lindsay Lohan coutns as Streep's "contemporary"

lex, you said "contemporaries by any stretch of the imagination"

Both definitions are valid:

4. a person belonging to the same time or period with another or others.
5. a person of the same age as another.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Adult-Contemporary-Music/b?ie=UTF8&node=694228

Lex never did explain why Kanye and West aren't contemporaries? If it's down to album releasing frequency I can kind of understand that, BUT in terms of their presence in the wider media as hip hop luminaries I think it's fair to say they've been contemporaries since 2003 / 2004. Jay-Z may be older and may not be releasing records much now, but they still have high profiles at the same time.

yeah, kind of bizarre that lex wouldn't back up a statement he made so confidently with any kind of justification.

I know, I know, but I still hold out a smidgeon of hope that one day Lex will be reasonable again.

I know it's a typo, Nick, but I am kind of giggling at those two juggernauts in hip-hop, Kanye and West.

Haha, shit, I hadn't even noticed!

I'd say the fact that they seem to stagger their albums release dates perfectly lends even more credence to them being contemporaries, probably buddies, and definitely competitors/artists sharing the same market.

To add to the OP's topic, I think the subject of Kanye's ego/braggadocio comes up often because, unlike most rappers, he doesn't deal in gunplay or drugs, so he basically has his music and his rep, which are pretty close to each other. It's kind of a basic fact of rap, but it sticks out as Kanye's "thing." Not that I mind - I kind of like the fact that the biggest rapper in the world is writing and producing stuff that calls to mind the spirit of rap circa 1983. He's even kind of chummy with nu-electro if you want to draw another parallel.

I know it's a typo, Nick, but I am kind of giggling at those two juggernauts in hip-hop, Kanye and West.

lololol

where's the complete opposite of braggadocio...I don't mean "omg, introspection shows i'm flawed human being" rap, I mean downright insecure, depressed rap, about how the principal is useless and can't do shit.

in Minnesota

Gus Frerotte has a rap album?

WHAAAAAA? Graduation is such a mess.

Justin Timberlake is today's greatest pop star, natch.

spiteful and cuntish post by the sun in response to kanye's recent blog
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/2794346/Kanye-West-makes-a-fool-of-himself-again-with-blog-rant.html

Here we go again!

The latest:

DURING THIS NEW ALBUM PROCESS SOMETIMES I TURN THE MUSIC UP AND DRINK AND CRY. WHEN SOMETHING SOUNDS SO AMAZING AND GROUNDBREAKING I'M REMINDED OF WHY I LIVE. I DRINK THE PAIN OF NOW 2 GENERATIONS AND BREATHE OUR MELODIES AND MESSAGES. THE MUSIC KEEPS US ALIVE. I WAS BLESSED WITH THE OPPORTUNITY TO BRING MY AND OTHERS DREAMS TO LIFE. IT'S LIKE PERFORMING MAGIC OR SOMETHING. IT'S SURREAL. WE BRING THE UNREALISTIC TO REALITY. GO HARD GO HARD GO HARD ECHOES IN MY DREAMS.

Full post here: http://www.kanyewest.com/home