Madonna: Classic Or Dud

"When I think of who my opponents are, I don't conjure up a party or a class so much as a sensibility. "They" - the enemy - are people whose souls are cold and whose bullet-point priorities close the window on imagination and genuine freedom of thought while increasing their own claims to ethical superiority. A great many of them are in the government, but they also find employment in newspapers and the corridors of academe. It's hard to pick them out on sight so you have to learn to spot them by their responses to the things around them.

One technique I use is to ask them what they think about Madonna . If they think she's sexy, they're unlikely to be real human beings. Ditto if they think she's "really evolved as an artist" or that she's a "really inspiring role model" - Patricia Hewitt would probably say that, or Yasmin Alibhai-Brown. No, the only proper responses are indifference or disdain, both of which qualify you, in my Thatcherite definition, as "one of us". I don't know much about Auberon Waugh's taste in music, but I doubt that he would have disappointed me in this matter.

(from http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4121863,00.html )

Up until the mature, angliophile Madonna, obviously Classic. Now? Enough already.

N.

Though Guy Fucking Ritchie certainly does a lot to ruin it.

So what? she changed her haircut.. Big deal.

Typical.

Absolute stone-cold *classic*, at least til she hooked up with the comedy cockney.

Burning Up should be covered by Britney Spears.

On Madonna: Classic. Finest song about a blow job ever.

As far as Madonna is concerned, the slew of fantastic singles she put out in the eighties and early nineties surely assures classic status, even if her last album did smell like a pile of dead dogs.

2. I am a tad suspicious of that view, though - it goes rather easy on the 80s work. There are a few 80s-Madonna tracks I really am very fond of: 'Papa Don't Preach', and, well... a few others. But I suspect there's a lot of waff filler, too, and that nostalgia is much in play here. Mind you, I always found most of the Like A Prayer LP excellent.

3. Nicole is right: intelligent and sensitive chap though Nick D is, he shouldn't hitch his colours - or anything much else - to Charlotte Raven's mast. The only thing worse than what Raven polemicizes against in that segment is the gal and her views themselves. She is constantly sounding off embarrassingly about things she knows nothing of, and (unlike us) getting paid loads for the privilege. There may be some truth in what ND quoted from her, but there's probably some idiocy and Burchillesque perversity too. And when she says 'Don't trust people who say Madonna's sexy' - well. That depends. I don't like the adjective one bit, and I wouldn't apply it to Madonna now, but if you held a bazooka to my head and made me apply it to anyone, it might have to be mid-80s Madonna.

Oh, Edward? "Burning Up" is Amazingly Brilliant. You are not alone.

"Don't Tell Me" comes across as being just as forced as "Music", I will admit. However, there's something about the way that song is written which also makes it sound more natural. (My guess is that the backing music supports the melody rather than distracts from it, although the unchartiable part of me wants to give "Music" bonus points for trying to keep me from noticing that Madonna didn't seem to come up with a tune for it.)

My general point was that I'm just bored stiff with talk about Madonna. The British media and associated chatterers just go on and on about her, her iconic status, her latest fucking hairstyle. I know this has been going on for years, ever since broadsheet writers and cultural studies lecturers latched onto her, but it seems to have got worse since she came over here.

And it makes me feel old to know that most teenagers are probably wondering what on earth all the fuss is about. Sorry, appealing to the opinions of imaginary teenagers is stupid thing to do.

I don't dislike her. I don't even care about Guy Ritchie. I just think most of the talk about her these days is regurgative rather springing from any real interest in 'Tell Me' or her latest haircut.

Like I, and almost everyone else here seems to say, 80s Madonna - classic. Since then, zzzzzz.....

1. I've always liked Terry Wogan - but god, he was lame when he interviewed Madonna.

2. Her accent - the cod-Brit one she adopted from late 80s on (?): dud.

3. What a load of piffle re. 'We all love her cos she lives in England now'. But that's probably been covered above.

4. The music seemed to get better over the years. I was so struck when 'Who's That Girl?' came on. I hadn't heard it in AGES, had always known I liked it, and it still sounded good. Some (to my ears) didn't: don't care for 'Vogue' much.

4. But slightly larger (though still terribly 'subjective') point: I was surprised at how bad the early stuff seemed. 'Holiday', 'Lucky Star', 'Like A Virgin': yes, they still have the predictable 80s nostalgia value. BUT even as I kind of enjoy that, I seem to hear a naffness, a tackiness in them. In fact one virtue of this prog was that I seemed to see the early stuff as though for the first time, as a kid. It reminded me of seeing early Madonna not as a loveable 80- retro icon of our childhood, but as The Big New Pop Star c. 1984. How did she seem, that way? Arrogant - self-satisfied - unsubtle - overrated - sinister - smug. 'Like A Virgin' felt crass and brazen. I'd never heard it sound so BAD in 15 years or more.

So in a way, one thing it made me feel was a resemblance (from my POV) between early Madonna and today's chart sensations (the people that Tom E likes). It made me feel that she had been just as bad as them. I hadn't felt that for a long time.

That said, her music's actually pretty damn good - "Cherish", "Open Your Heart", probably the entirety of _True Blue_. (Not that this is news to anyone but myself.) She's a crap actress, though, and a crapper singer, especially after her _Evita_ lessons - who the hell taught her how to hold notes? And WHY did they teach her that? And why is she posing with a guitar now like it's a revelation? "Oh, damn, I can play a C chord! This'll impress people!" And I like her better as a brunette. But she survived posing nude with Vanilla Ice, which is a skill I can only hope to emulate.

(And has anyone even mentioned _Ray of Light_ in terms of a quality slice of Ciccone "youth"? Or is there an anti-William Orbit contingent on this list that'll shit on such notions?)

But it's a lose-lose situation, this sort of talk. You praise her like you should, you're just towing the line with the rest of the acolytes. You disapprove, you're a wack playa hata. Just accept her as true American royalty and step away from the doors.

(But, lord, hearing her butcher "Like A Virgin" on that VH1 Girlie Show special was wretched. She turned it into a German cabaret number. A SLOW cabaret number. Lugubrious and woefully self- indulgent, Kubrick-style. "You're so fine, unt you're mine!")

'Ah but thats just the point, she's a weathervane, a survivor and a late 20th century pop icon'. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Klassic

(to be precise, he is not strictly speaking the worst - I find it hard to visualise anyone who could be a worse writer than Imran Ahmed of the NME - but that wouldn't quite have the same universal appeal when it comes to chat-ups)

Only someone who doesn't appreciate pop culture could say Madonna's a dud.

From what I heard Portillo was trying to persuade her to be the star turn at the next Tory election rally. Still she's moved back to LA now, so the sight of her standing next to Bob Monkhouse, Jim Davidson and Ben Elton (prediction) will not come to pass.

You're probably right at that. What the fuck happened to him anyway?

She is also a very crafty song-writer. What is so amazing is how she plays with song structure. Guys if you have ever written songs, you know it takes a musical-genius to write that many styles of song-writing. It is fucking hard. I don't know how she does it but it is her. Yea I know she collaborates but from what I have read, she is always the primary lyricists. She has written very complex songs. Her use of different song structures is nothing short of brilliance. And to make them all hits like she does is pretty astounding.

I am not interested in the petty fighting between fans of different singers that goes on. I am just giving my opinion as a musician. Madonna is the real deal. Even other bands I talk with that aren't into her music give her props for being the real deal. In our circles, we respect Madonna even if we aren't into her music. She is a classic all the way and will go down as one of the top 10 greatest female singer/song-writers of all time. She is a musical genius.

Didn't realize people actually used such terminology.

Oh, and classic or dud, she represents all the worst of postmodern media saturation, celebrity for celebrity's sake, nihilistic materialism, etc. I root for her stalkers.

I didn't listen to her seriously until that point as well. She's great.

So maybe I can't be objective.

A living legend.

And the video of Hollywood is just stunning. As are the remixes.

remixes sound good tho

Also, she should start releasing the great tracks from American Life, and there are definitely quite a few. I'd go for Nothing Fails and Mother and Father.... both classic Madonna.

Why in the heck did they put "Borderline" as the third song on Immaculate Collection? I don't get that. Those other songs ("Lucky Star", "holiday") weren't released as singles earlier, were they? I don't think so. I swear "Borderline" was the first video I ever saw. That's kind of annoying sequencing. I think "Borderline" is just so fantastic - the type of song that should really kick off a greatest hits collection.

Anyway, let's talk some more about Madge. We haven't had much opportunity to do so; the last album flopped, god bless her, but what can you do? It happens. She is still awesome in my mind.

I finally saw Swept Away on HBO or something over X-mas but whatever, it wasn't too bad. I loved the original, and Madonna's didin't seem to bad. Decent flick.

Anyway ... Madonna!!!

Madonna would benefit from a Lennon-like 5 year voluntary break from the public eye/music world...

Because:
1) the album is chronological
2) it could not start more perfectly
3) the song's classic-ness is "borderline" at best

I can't believe it! This is the song from Live Aid you can't get on the commercially available DVD! And I found it by accident when I played Human League's Human video. God what luck. I love You Tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lABvKuDZFKE

Hmm. So I'm the only one who cares? I realize it's not the best song in the world, perhaps, but it's been the missing chapter in her Live Aid performance for me, it's the missing link, the mystery solved, I feel so relieved.

It's ok -- this appeared on True Blue, no?

I don't know - did it? I've been wondering what album it came off if any. I guess I could look it up and I will do so, but too tired right now.

Indeed it did. Last track, in fact.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/True-Blue-Madonna/dp/B000002L9S/ref=sr_1_1/202-6023791-6219064?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1190557045&sr=1-1

Anyway, much better than the "Revolution" train wreck.

Christ almighty Alfred you are OTM in that regard! I mean that shit was just tragic.

Anyway, isn't it about time she releases a compilation containing the original 7" versions of her singles? Particularly "True Blue" sounded very different as a single than as an album track (and video), and it isn't avaiable anywhere except in its 12" version as a bonus track on the "True Blue" remaster.

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

She should rather have rested from 1990 to 1997, as she didn't produce much of value during that period anyway. From 1998 onwards, she has been great.

Dud. Fucking horrible woman.

I don't know what's most over-rated - her music or her "looks".

I'd rather hear Guy Ritchie sing. And wear a cone-shaped bra, come to think of it.....

She needs to fuck off and retire at long last.

-- Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 26 September 2007 01:49 (10 hours ago) Bookmark Link

83 - 89 = CLASSIC
92 - 94 = ok
98 = quite good but not classic
99 - present = DUD

i think her voice is actually underrated. listening to angel recently and although she has difficulty reaching the low notes, i like how she used to sing in a lower register than how she sings today. she seemed to have more vocal character then. though it might also be cos she seemed to have more of a soul/R&B influence back then too.

Her lower register = classic. Responsible for: "Angel," "Live To Tell," "Who's That Girl," "Oh Father," etc.

she should have gone away after ray of light, though even there, i think dance music brings bad qualities (and lyrics) out in her. but then her decision to write so much of her own material since then in association with a producer seems to bring out worse qualities. the only two ROL songs i really like are candy perfume girl and the title track.

I love "Skin", probably my favorite track on the album.

Actually a decent amount of that album has her in her lower register, which I agree is better than her middle/upper register.

titchy with the most boring received wisdom on her eras there

Almost twenty years later, I'll admit: Bedtime Stories >>>>>>>> Ray of Light

lex with the most contrarian, but still wrong wisdom. let me guess, you think the 99-present era is her best?

the lower register thing doesnt really hold perfectly true ill admit - eg - material girl and like a virgin arent in her lower register but are still totally classic.

take a bow is better than most of ray of light.

take a bow is better than most of ray of light.

I'd agree with that, but that doesn't mean Ray of Light is bad.

The singles off of Bedtime Stories are uniformly excellent, some of her best material ever.

Lots of solid album tracks too: the glacially melancholy "Love Tried to Welcome Me," the first "Forbidden Love," "Sanctuary."

fwiw, i think beautiful stranger is pretty good in terms of the ROL era

i think just looking at madonna post-ROL has also ruined her music for me, perhaps i need to warm to the skinny leotarded madonna more

I don't know that I've ever heard the entire Bedtime Stories album, actually! If I have, it didn't make an impression.

I think Madonna has firmly slipped into radio single territory for me after the all-out ball of weird that is American Life. Nothing she's done since has been as strong an artistic statement to me, so I haven't felt the need to own or listen to it with any regularity; AL has a confluence of ideas that should read to me on paper as a total trainwreck but instead comes across to me as a really compelling listen.

lex with the most contrarian, but still wrong wisdom. let me guess, you think the 99-present era is her best?

Anyone who doesn't rate Erotica among her 2 or 3 best albums is now actually in the vanguard, I'd guess.

ill have to relisten to AL. yeah its cohesive but i found that even that sort of unity didnt add up to enough.

I don't expect my appreciation of that album to translate to too many others; it's pretty clearly an experiment with some massive missteps but that just makes it more fun to me.

I think dance music brings bad qualities (and lyrics) out in her.

Not sure what this means, I thought Madonna always did dance music?

Also are you all ignoring Confessions On A Dancefloor on purpose or did you forget about how great it is?

I've never heard the whole thing.

Her best album from each respective decade has been her danciest (Madonna, Erotica, and COADF)

xpost - i dont think of her early soul/R&B/funk era as being 'dance music', even though yes, you can dance to it, and most people do, but thats just me.

Her best album from each respective decade has been her danciest (Madonna, Erotica, and COADF)

OTM

i don't know if i completely agree with prolego and yet those are my three favorite madonna records?

xpost- It says in the liners notes of The Immaculate Collection that her first album pretty much invented the Dance Music genre, and I have to agree with that. It's not quite soul/R&B/funk, or disco, or new wave, but it's kind of all of that at the same time.

titchy with the most boring received wisdom on her eras there

Oh come on lex, you're not going to burst into the thread with cries of "boring received wisdom" and not actually offer up your own opinion now, are you?

"xpost- It says in the liners notes of The Immaculate Collection that her first album pretty much invented the Dance Music genre, and I have to agree with that. It's not quite soul/R&B/funk, or disco, or new wave, but it's kind of all of that at the same time."

lol at that album or madonna inventing the dance music genre.

The boring received wisdom is that the nineties were a drop off but then Ray of Light was a partial return to form.

This is wrong: I'd say from Erotica though to American Life there is a consistent fall from brilliance --> excellence --> goodness --> quite goodness --> good/badness

I wouldn't say that Madonna is best at her most dance-focused, necessarily; perhaps rather that being a (modern version of a) disco diva is a good look for her, and she's better when framing her albums nominally around that idea and then branching out with other (downtempo or ballad etc) material that comes almost as a surprise. But you know, there's actually a lot of slower moments on Erotica!

A common misnomer is to think of Ray of Light as her "dance album" when really there's only 4 proper dance numbers on there at most (the title track, "Skin", "Sky Fights Heaven", "Nothing Really Matters"), the rest largely being ostentatious (though often good) high-tech balladry. I'd say Ray of Light in this sense is like the inverse of Erotica, a balladic album with dancefloor diversions.

See, that's my problem with her in album-length form: fuck the ballads, full-on disco from start to finish please. Is that so hard?

Erotica hides its ballads really well imo.

What makes Ray of Light a drag is the tension between the insistence on introspection and the buttoned-down beats; or, rather, she hadn't yet found a correlative for "thoughtful" dance music. The results are a little like Young Americans: auteurist pop with dance leanings.

Also: when her lyrics aim for "spirituality," she's embarrassing or worse. I'd forgive this if her post-Evita voice wasn't at its most pompous. The only time I hear some new kind of New Age-disco fusion is on "Sky Fits Heaven."

See, that's my problem with her in album-length form: fuck the ballads, full-on disco from start to finish please. Is that so hard?

sorry, pally: MY Madonna requires "Live to Tell," "Crazy For You," "Bedtime Stories," "Love Tried to Welcome Me," and "In This Life."

I'd forgive this if her post-Evita voice wasn't at its most pompous.

This is the nub of it I think.

Erotica hides its ballads really well imo.

Yeah, I listen to it all the time obv and I still get surprised. I think it helps that all of the ballads (as well as the other slow tunes - "Where Life Begins", "Secret Garden" etc.) really feel like an extension of the same character as inhabits the uptempo tunes. "Bad Girl" and "In This Life" are precisely the depressive songs that the all-nite-diva would sing to herself the next day, under a cloud of hangover and regret.

Yeah that's cool but why can't she relegate the hangover to another disc? Why's it so hard? (I'm being bitchy, really. The Erotica ballads/downtempos, apart from the obvious one, are decent enough. But I'd be lying if I said I ever listen to them or that I'd need to save them in a fire as with "Deeper and Deeper.")

sorry, pally: MY Madonna requires "Live to Tell," "Crazy For You," "Bedtime Stories," "Love Tried to Welcome Me," and "In This Life."

They're all yours, baby, including the overrated "Live to Tell." Come on - Dave Marsh thinks it's her best single. How good could it be then??? "Gambler" >>> "Live to Tell" Didn't know "Bedtime Story" counted as a ballad but I do dig that one. Had to youtube "Love Tried to Welcome Me" since I couldn't recall it. Made it to the chorus. Zzzz.

I knew I really couldn't stand her balladry when I listened to Something to Remember. Obviously not an ideal place to hear them since they're the entire picture rather than desert oases. But man what a chore to get through!

The only time I hear some new kind of New Age-disco fusion is on "Sky Fits Heaven."

Actually, that Shanti Shanti Shanti number on Ray of Light fuses the two nicely enough. One of my fave tracks on a pretty blah album.

Why's it so hard?

to love one another?

"Something To Remember" the song I've adored since about 8 years old.

Obviously if she couldn't sing or write the ballads no one would endorse them! She's got soggy ones too (e.g. "This Used To Be My Playground" and "The Power of Goodbye").

Now "Angel" I made it all the way through, several times, in fact. Like the Janet of "Love Will Never Do Without You," she knows how to play with her vocal limitations so that she comes off as intense as Mavis Fuckin' Staples by the end of the song. From right before the vaguely Orientalist instrumental break to the fadeout, it just burns!

I wouldn't count "Angel" as a ballad. Would you?

Not at all. Just sayin'.

I'd rescue "I'll Remember" from a fire.

Oh that's a good one -- always forget it.

this used to be my playyyyyyyyyyyyyyground

It's weird, I know I am the anti-Alfred when it comes to Madonna, and I'm not trying to be challopsy, I just have different taste but it's always strange to me how completely differently other ppl rate her stuff from how I do.

I've never been able to make it all the way through Erotica and I know that album gets a lot of love. But then again, most of the "classic" 80s era stuff, the production drives me nuts and I can't listen to it.

Ray of Light isn't "not dance" so much as it's dronerock with IDM accessories on it. Which is why I love it so much, clearly but it's kind of where I start with Madonna, not where I end. I think it completely works as being both danceable and introspective but I've got quite a high tolerance for her being spiritual and "pompous". She's one of the few artists whose songs about their kids I don't skip, probably because her feelings about motherhood seem so tied up with the loss of her own mother, and therefore sometimes quite ambivalent.

I've grown to really really rate Music - once I was able to take it out its time and place and disassociate it from that awful, awful Ali G nonsense. I'm also with DJP that American Life is such an odd little album that even when it fails, it's still interesting to listen to. And when it's good, it's amazing.

But this is when I really really want a Madonna vote-in poll because I think that tracks 40-10 on it would be a good learning experience for me to hear the stuff that I haven't explored because I can't get past the production or the setting or whatever.

I suppose one of these days I should give Hard Candy another listen and perhaps it won't seem as terrible but I kinda blame Guy Ritchie for that, I'm just gonna call it her "Here My Dear" and file it and wait for the next one.

What makes Ray of Light a drag is the tension between the insistence on introspection and the buttoned-down beats; or, rather, she hadn't yet found a correlative for "thoughtful" dance music. The results are a little like Young Americans: auteurist pop with dance leanings.

Also: when her lyrics aim for "spirituality," she's embarrassing or worse. I'd forgive this if her post-Evita voice wasn't at its most pompous. The only time I hear some new kind of New Age-disco fusion is on "Sky Fits Heaven."

otm

candy perfume girl is one of my favourite madonna songs though

here my dear is/was an amazing album btw

I've never actually heard it, to be honest, but given it's one of those albums that most people seem to agree should come with a trigger warning for misogyny, I feel it's probably better if I give it a miss.

Guess I should find another by-word for "breakup album so bitter it's actually painful to listen to." Except Hard Candy doesn't seem to be a breakup album so much as a "look at me, I'm so hot, I got it going on I don't even need to think about you" which could be interesting if executed well but my memory is, it wasn't and it just came off as clunky and try-hard. (You are welcome to prove me wrong.)

well "look at me, I'm so hot, I got it going on I don't even need to think about you" seems to be the standard approach of most modern breakup songs/albums, rather than the bitter/angry/twisted/downbeat mood of albums like here my dear. i dont know if id say HMD is misogynistic, its just very acidic (but when did i stop loving you is one of the best/most bitter breakup/relationship post mortem songs ive ever heard).

but what i like about HMD is that hes not ashamed to put it all out there - it has some of the most painfully raw (but also beautiful) and honest songs he wrote. anyway, enough about marvin.

She's one of the few artists whose songs about their kids I don't skip

I agree! "Little Star" is lovely.

Songs on ROL I like:

Swim (guitar!)
Candy Perfume Girl
Skin
Nothing Really Matters
Sky Fits Heaven
To Have and Not to Hold
Little Star

Am I the only one who didn't Madonna's Neil Young-style thrashing on "Candy Perfume Girl" when she played it on the 2001 tour?

*who didn't MIND

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Madonna-to-play-Super-Bowl-XLVI-halftime-show-100311

Madonna to play Super Bowl halftime
NewsCore

Updated Oct 3, 2011 12:57 PM ET

Madonna will perform during the Super Bowl XLVI halftime show, fansite SB Nation reported Monday.

The site said unnamed NFL sources had confirmed the "Material Girl" singer will entertain football fans at the NFL championship game, to be held Feb. 5 at Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis.

The Black Eyed Peas played the halftime show at last year's title game, watched by over 111 million viewers.

The high-profile gig has gained notoriety after the infamous 2004 "wardrobe malfunction" that resulted in Justin Timberlake exposing Janet Jackson's breast to a live worldwide television audience.

As a result, the NFL has tried to steer clear from notably risque performers, inviting tamer acts such as Tom Petty, Paul McCartney and The Who.

watch out, Middle America – Madonna's gonna flaunt her roped, knotted Biceps of Doom.

unlike Bruce, slamming her gentles into a cameraman won't be an accident

Did they run our of old rock acts?

I wonder if it will be "controversial."

(Seriously, though, doesn't Lady Gaga exist for this sort of thing?)

They'll never run out of old rock acts, but Madonna was the last of the remaining huge 80s stars to not have done it.

(MJ, JJ, Springsteen and Prince have all been there)

next year they're going to bust out with Baltimora

he's dead!

next year they're going to bust out with Zombie Baltimora

So was Paul McCartney, but he put on a show anyway.

Night tonight
Gimme the other
Gimme the other
BRAAAAAAAAAAAINS

Last time, she debuted American Pie, didn't she?

That was 1998, and she backed out: http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,617156,00.html

Madonna covers Between the Bars. Surprising!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIytf5S5zMs#t=185

That was just embarrassing. Jesus.

I saw one of her Yeezus-style late-night public projections last night:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2wp4ac0.png

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/25/madonna-secret-project_n_3980924.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXfXrl4K2D4

oh HELLO

http://www.portalfamososbr.com/rebel-heart-e-wash-all-over-me-novas-musicas-de-madonna-vazam-na-rede/

hello lower register

I think this is better than it could have been, given all: http://www.interviewmagazine.com/music/madonna-1#page4

rediscovered this and felt like sharing it for those who may not have heard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwVhNvkhw0

so beautiful

83-88: great singles, not-so-great LP's.
89-00: the peak
01-present: fuck off.

I find that analysis weird considering that a significant amount of her best material appeared early in her career, including two of her best albums (s/t, True Blue), while her "peak" era contains a wildly uneven, overrated album (Like A Prayer), one of the worst movie tie-ins ever recorded (I'm Breathless), and some truly terrible singles ("Dear Jesse", "Oh Father", "Cherish", "American Pie"). Also, Confessions had some good stuff on it and American Life is grossly underrated by practically everyone.

2008-now is pretty much trash, though.

You're both wrong.

No, I thought about it for a couple of seconds and I'm right.

I don't like how rigid her vocals sound on most of her postmillennial material. Then again, aside from some scattered moments on Music and Confessions I don't like the material either.

I love "Cherish" and like "Oh Father." I temper my enthusiasm for the latter because even before the voice lessons she'd sung better ballads than it.

I know most people disagree with me but I've hated "Cherish" since it first appeared on radio.

it's part of your charm

DAN CAN'T MAKE ME CRY

Oh Father is terribly GOOD

'Cherish' and 'Oh Father' two of my favourite things she's ever done! I disagree about Like a Prayer being uneven... at a push, there's maybe two songs that aren't as good as the rest, but neither are horrible (I'm not saying which ones!)

'Dear Jessie' is a firm favourite of mine too... a song that would work equally well being covered by either Erasure or The Cure.

"Dear Jesse" works in context but is kind of irritating as a standalone song, if that makes any sense.

It's one of only two songs that's managed to move me to tears, so I disagree.

Her duds: https://humanizingthevacuum.wordpress.com/2017/07/06/worst-madonna-songs/

alfred u abandoned me

'American Life' is garbage.

Glad you included the unbearably turgid "Love Don't Live Here Anymore," which I suspect normally gets a pass by part of her (first) classic era.

yr unbearably turgid

A day late, but the four classic album reviews (s/t, Like a Prayer, Bedtime Stories, Ray of Light) that Pitchfork did for Madonna's birthday are worth a read. Alex Frank's analysis of her potentially problematic "earth mother" RoL phase is spot-on and provocative, and Owen Pallett OTM on BS being mostly a pleasant bore.

Thanks! I know lots of stans for that record but it's really a misfire to my ears. Somebody called the genre experiment as being one in "neo-soul", not "R&B slow jam", but whatever it was, Madge didn't make it work, especially compared to other chart music that year imo

I don't understand why you (or they?) chose to review Bedtime Stories while Erotica is called a 'masterpiece' and the idea was to review four of her 'key records'.

Would love to read fgti on Erotica.

or you or Eric.

I wrote this about "Papa Don't Preach" last month: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/songs-of-the-summer-1986/

I'm daunted by Erotica. I think I'd have to lay down my arms.

You screw it, you fake it.

I would have chosen True Blue but that's an argument I've failed at making many a time

Erotica is the only album I think is a masterpiece, but I'll stunt for True Blue, s/t and, yes, Bedtime Stories (probably because it's in the context of the walk back from Erotica).

True Blue to my ears is Madonna at her most effortlessly brilliant and fun, that and the s/t.

i love True Blue

I once wrote half a manifesto about Erotica and taste and criticism and communities of meaning and appropriation and what we talk about when we talk about transcendence, and then I lost it and I wasn't upset because I couldn't do any of those topics justice.

Always a highlight of Madonna's brief seaquarium residency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz2GvkiTWYo

its a strange track, its all in that last sixty seconds! but there it is!

Erotica is excellent, Like a Prayer is better.

Confessions is my go-to Madonna album these days

I thought they were going to be getting every Madonna album reviewed! They offered me that one or Like A Prayer but I picked Bedtime Stories because I kind of have a weird relationship to Like A Prayer. I haven't until yesterday been able to figure out what it is about that album's 'sound' that weirds me out but yesterday it hit me that it's her "Swedish album"

explain!

Dunno if I can! But s/t and Like A Virgin always sounded thin in this kind of tensile, New Wave, exciting way, and then certain parts of True Blue ("Live To Tell") started doing this kind of lush widescreen sort of production/songwriting thing that hit its peak on Like A Prayer, which sounds as much like Abba or a Broadway musical as it might sound like club music.

I can't really break down the genes of those first four albums, some people say R&B and others disco and others new wave but it definitely had a vector toward "whatever-it-is-that-Like-A-Prayer-is-doing" which is closer to my ears to Celine Dion-schmaltz than actual club music

And then she did "Vogue" which was the first Madonna song that sounded like it belonged in a club instead of a high school gymnasium

I'm on board with every bit of that.

I genuinely don't much like Like a Prayer as an album.

And then she did "Vogue" which was the first Madonna song that sounded like it belonged in a club instead of a high school gymnasium

great line.

and absolutely spot on.

"Burning Up" and "Into the Groove" belong in a club.

Many Madonna songs belong in a museum.

I was gonna say, "Burning Up" and "Everybody" are 100% club fodder and those are on the first album.

Til death do us part is the song on LaP that gives me first album feelings (it's also my favorite LaP track)

First album is anything but timbrally thin to me! It's full of juice!

Clubbing in NYC in the mid to late 80s you heard "Burnin' Up", "Lucky Star". Maybe "Sidewalk Stories". I don't recall anything else from her getting played to a full club.

Oh yeah and of course "Into The Groove".

Man, that "Songs of the Summer 1986" chart from Alfred's "Papa Don't Preach" review... holy white people!

First album is extremely thin! I'm not using "thin" as a negative adjective, just an actual description of where the content lies in the frequency spectrum. Her later records fill up with mid-range information that doesn't exist on that first album.

s/t def was clubby through and through, certain 2nd album stuff too, but I mean like "Like A Virgin" and "Material Girl" and "Live To Tell" and "Like A Prayer" and "Cherish"-- gymnasium music

I have this weird idiot idea about "Like A Prayer", which is that it's a great Madonna lyric tied to a "end credits of The Neverending Story" style song/production. I can imagine the lyric to "Like A Prayer" being repurposed toward a song/production more like "Into The Groove" and hear a much more effective track.

I dunno, I guess I just like Madonna when she's at her least-sounding-like-Cyndi-Lauper or something

"Like a Prayer" doesn't sound much like Lauper, or, indeed anyone else to my ears

No, not that one, but it sounds like Abba to me, or at least, it's built like an Abba song. idk! Swedish. Or something

the neverending story tie-in idea is making me very happy

life is a mysteryyyyyyyyy-eeeeeeee- eeeeeee

I get what fgti is saying and I agree. The distinction between the club and the Broadway stuff became only more pronounced as she started to grow into the "diva" role. It says something that even though I don't like about half of her output she's still comfortably among my favorite artists.

'Like a Prayer' is brilliant enough as it is and doesn't require fucking with or re-imagining in any way. Talking strictly about the LP version here, of course.

I listened to Erotica earlier today and still think it's a superb record, even though it's a little overlong.

The single mixes of "Like a Prayer" and "Express Yourself" are the only things keeping The Immaculate Collection from being a perfect greatest hits comp.

And then she did "Vogue" which was the first Madonna song that sounded like it belonged in a club instead of a high school gymnasium

as an old dude who spent time in clubs in the mid-eighties I can tell you that "Burning Up" was completely incredible in a club tho

If you're going to deliver an ace in the hole for an event inspired by Catholic themes, and given your own dress didn't really measure up compared to a lot of other guests, this is how to do it. Also I want the full version of this ASAP.

Madonna performing “Like A Prayer” inside the @metmuseum!!! 😍 #MetGala #MetaGala2018 pic.twitter.com/bUdC1dCalh

— Madonna Nation (@MadonnaNation) May 8, 2018

o

m

g

Happy birthday, girl. I love this interview: https://www.advocate.com/news/2007/07/23/madonna-x-rated-interview

One of the things that was a big influence on me was the 'stuff' about gay culture she brought to the mainstream. A lot of it was her brother Christopher's idea of course (the dancing, the staging at shows, the costumes..), but hers too and she had to sell it, put the ideas across. Specifically because of her I found out who Keith Haring was, who Herb Ritts was, and thanks to Truth Or Dare (which miraculously I saw at the local cinema during its 1-week run) i heard people chant "We're here, we're queer, GET USED TO IT!" for the first time. In fact the moment in that film with the downtown New York Pride parade and her dancers having a 'minute's silence' is the first time i'd seen ANY thing even remotely like that anywhere. It was as powerful and important and alien and special to me growing up in dark-ages 80s/early 90s Northern England as you could imagine, because in Britain that kind of moment, that kind of message or image just wasn't seen in the mainstream at all. It's not the sort of thing i feel i can talk about anywhere else even(Facebook etc) and i'm not making myself clear possibly, but you guys will know what I mean i think.

totally

beautiful post piscesx

<3

Met Gala video finally up today

https://youtu.be/jVgE45ZYTfw

Maura has a thing up on Pitchfork about the best books about Madonna. The Rettenmund one sounds fun.

Someone write a 33 1/3 on her already!

Yes piscesx! Her confidence, her strenght, her message of being your true self. She was the big sister I always wish I had. Her songs were great too, obviously. Happy 60th M !

I'm fascinated by the potential Thanksgiving dinners enabled by her sister Melanie, who is married to Joe Henry, used to manage Daniel Lanois and is now a (not terrible) visual artist focusing on textiles.

http://www.melaniemariaciccone.com

Am I nuts or was there a 33 1/3 in the works about Erotica?

Can there be a 33 1/3 in the works about Erotica?

I'd totally read a 33 1/3 on Erotica!

OK, who here is going to pitch it during the next round?

It surprises me to realise I haven't already written a 33 1/3 about Erotica.

What if we pitched an gaylxor omnibus 33 1/3 of Erotica?

signing myself up early to write the extremely meta chapter on "words"

if the erotica 33 1/3 doesn't contain "flamenco drop" it's not valid

OTFM

Flamenco drop is what I do on the dance floor when “Deeper & Deeper” comes on.

exactly

Madonna>erotica>bedtime stories>Ray of light>true blue>like a Virgin>like a prayer>confessions on a dancefloor>American Life>have no idea about the others

Like a Prayer = Erotica
> True Blue > Ray of Light > Music > Bedtime Stories > Madonna > Like a Virgin > Confessions on a Dancefloor > American Life

Forgot to add fuiud

I will never get the enduring ILM love for Erotica. It disappointed me then, and I've never had cause to readjust my reaction.

Yeah, few albums cause more HUH responses from Madonna fans than when I admit I love Erotica.

It doesn't automatically wow on first listen as, say, Like a Prayer does - it's a touch less immediate. However, repeated exposure to the album opens it up.

Deeper and deeper is also maybe her best song (not really that's borderline!)

'Deeper and Deeper' is an all-time favourite of mine, but 'Bad Girl' is the one from Erotica - just pure ear candy.

Speaking of flamenco, my friend knows the session dude that did the Spanish guitar on "La Isla Bonita." He said it was just another session and he didn't think much of it ... until he learned he got a writing credit. Apparently the royalties were immediately enough to buy a house in LA.

Amazing stuff here, a docu from the late 90s; she wanders around her ‘80s NY haunts with Rupert Everett, bumps into some old neighbours, tells a few fine tales, freaks people out, talks about being skint..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO2vYafZ3sY

my friend knows the session dude that did the Spanish guitar on "La Isla Bonita." He said it was just another session and he didn't think much of it ... until he learned he got a writing credit.

Bruce Gaitsch? Yeah, he's an L.A. session cat.

This was his big ticket to LA, I think. He did a lot of stuff with Richard Marx.

!!!

I've mentioned this anecdote earlier but it's worth sharing again. Bassist Guy Pratt with a rare anecdote about what she's like in the studio, here recording "Like a Prayer":

Pratt recalled that after the middle chorus was recorded, she notified the musicians of some changes in the production. "Jonathan, do less of the high-hat in the middle eight, and more of a fill towards the end. Guy, I want duck eggs [semibreves] on the end, and Chester, bring in your guitar on the second verse," she instructed

The bassline on 'Like a Prayer' (the album version not the Immaculate Collection remake) is fucking amazing.

I thought that one was Randy Jackson.

Bassist Guy Pratt with a rare anecdote about what she's like in the studio

Pratt had a solid five minutes in his first stand-up show about her as boss and person

obviously a horrible person; also kind of a dope

https://deadline.com/2018/08/mtv-vmas-madonnas-aretha-franklin-tribute-backlash-1202448989/

Honestly who else were they going to get? You really wanted Jessie J to honk her way through "Respect" or J. Lo to not hit the votes on "Natural Woman"?

Like maybe the move was to not have a tribute at all, or to have some sort of thing a la the Oscars so they could also mention Avicii (more relevant to the MTV demo) or Tom Petty (Video Vanguard winner who actually got played on MTV for more than, what, two or three years)

It might have been a bad speech! But everyone being like "ugh why HER" is being ahistorical at best

Anyone seen this doc? TVO (in Canada) is airing it this coming weekend. I'm curious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BuM2hMNmVM

What if we pitched an gaylxor omnibus 33 1/3 of /Erotica/?

Definitely worth watching. It really focuses on the dancers and is not trying to make it all about Madonna, really, which is good.

xp

xp still the best idea i've ever seeded here

give me the "words" chapter

signing myself up early to write the extremely meta chapter on "words"

― princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, August 16, 2018 4:15 PM (five months ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm gonna make this joke every time until it happens

lex gets "Deeper and Deeper"

I want "Thief of Hearts"

I'd be up for it! Even just an unofficial set of pieces on the album.

If done by song then I'd want "Waiting" or "Bad Girl" (assuming "Deeper & Deeper" is taken).

I get "Waiting" or the awesome task of defending "Why's It So Hard"

"Why's it so on this album?"

"It complements 'In This Life'."

“Secret Garden,” pls (assuming “Deeper and Deeper” etc)

Funny this thread got revived, for yesterday I started writing a Madonna '80s ranking that does not align with consensus.

I couldn't muster a full chapter but I have a soft spot for "Why's It So Hard" simply due to the reggae bounce piano house production.

On second thought, I think I'd have more fun with "Fever."

According to the 33 1/3 site, they just had a round of new submissions last year, and thus will probably not be doing another one until 2020 or so (I'm guessing). If y'all are serious about making "Erotica by gaylxor" a thing, I'm down for putting something together for the next round. There is nothing on the site prohibiting submissions by multiple authors, but if this actually gets to the early planning stages, we might want inquire about this at some point.

I couldn't muster a full chapter but I have a soft spot for "Why's It So Hard" simply due to the reggae bounce piano house production.

― Tim F, Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:20 PM (five minutes ago)

and the gay "why is it soooo damnnnn hardddd"

So here's my eighties list.

Disqualify You Can Dance and I agree with this ranking.

my fave moment was Sonic Youth leaving a boombox playing "Live to Tell" onstage after a show in Hoboken, 1986

My favorite moment tonight was eating a pink cookie.

Looks like she's doing a theatere tour, residencies in each city? She's playing something like five nights at the Chicago Theatere here this fall.

Classic: five or six of the singles between 1983 and 1986, plus Vogue.

Dud: almost everything else.

I think I feel somewhat similarly except that I hate "Vogue".

Wow: https://news.avclub.com/like-a-prayer-producer-shares-3-demos-in-protest-of-auc-1836663057?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MSDeyFeafo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1bXwxH6I1I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyFramnrEWc

protesting an upcoming auction of the Madonna’s personal items

This seems unlikely

According to Rolling Stone, there are 70 items going on sale; in addition to the tapes, costumes and a “handwritten apology letter” sent to Madonna a year before he was murdered are included.

Also, good to hear that being murdered hasn’t stopped Mr Stone from speaking.

I had to hover over the URL myself to see just who died.

I definitely was wondering why that piece was trying to convince me that Patrick Leonard was posting to Youtube from the afterlife.

Courtesy of Found Footage Festival, did you ever see the Danny Aiello *reponse* video to Papa Don't Preach; 'Papa Wants the Best for You' ??

I'm not making this up..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5qp3XqFQTI

“You know, that (Papa Don't Preach video) came about in a very strange way,” Danny explains. “I had no idea who Madonna was, so I said to (daughter) Stacey in passing, ‘They want me to do this music video with this girl named Madonna.‘She said, ‘Dad, Dad, you have to.’ I went back and said I’ll do it if my daughter is permitted on the set taking pictures with Madonna. ... Madonna sort of backed up and told her representative that I don’t do that. My daughter has hated her ever since. I’m a movie actor doing this piece of crap!”

lol

amazing

Gonna spend the next few minutes sobbing into a punching bag because of this

This oral history of the making of Truth or Dare/In Bed With Madonna is pretty good, and a reminder what an unstoppable and outwardly untouchable force Madonna was back then. https://t.co/X6MA9ufrs4

— Justin Myers (@theguyliner) May 8, 2021

Looks like Madonna's albums will be getting super deluxe releases....

https://www.madonna.com/news/title/madonna-and-warner-music-group-announce-milestone--career-spanning-partnership

"Madonna will personally curate expensive expansive deluxe editions for many of her landmark albums, as well as introduce unique releases for special events, and much more. The series of releases will be overseen by Warner Music’s catalog team, led by Kevin Gore, President of Global Catalog, Recorded Music, with the first release to be announced soon."

happy birthday, girl

Dud

happy birthday, girl

Dud

LMAO

EROTICA outtakes? Sign me up!

Fully remastered bonus Blu rays of videos that aren’t just cut from the VHS and shoved on a DVD?? Sign me up!

I hope they absolutely go to town, Prince style.

Did I miss a link to exactly which "landmark" albums are being reissued? Weird they weren't mentioned by name.

I guess that means you also missed this:

On October 8, Madonna will be releasing her highly anticipated documentary film, MADAME X, exclusively on Paramount+, the streaming service from ViacomCBS, and MTV Entertainment Studios in the U.S., Latin America, Australia, the Nordics, and Canada. Fans outside of these markets can watch the documentary on MTV. Filmed in Lisbon, Portugal, the film captures the pop icon’s rare and rapturous tour performance, hailed by sold-out theatrical audiences worldwide. The unprecedented intimate streaming experience will take viewers on a journey as compelling and audacious as Madonna’s fearless persona, Madame X, a secret agent traveling around the world, changing identities, fighting for freedom, and bringing light to dark places.

how does that answer my question?

Ha, it doesn't, just liked the ridiculousness of "The unprecedented intimate streaming experience will take viewers on a journey as compelling and audacious as Madonna’s fearless persona, Madame X, a secret agent traveling around the world, changing identities, fighting for freedom, and bringing light to dark places." But more in answer to your question, while that link above doesn't specify which albums or in what order, I think it can be presumed to be more or less the ones we expect, at least based on the era-specific headshots displayed.

Spotty but interesting Madonna covers album from Italians Do it Better released this week.

Ha, it doesn't, just liked the ridiculousness of "The unprecedented intimate streaming experience will take viewers on a journey as compelling and audacious as Madonna’s fearless persona, Madame X, a secret agent traveling around the world, changing identities, fighting for freedom, and bringing light to dark places." But more in answer to your question, while that link above doesn't specify which albums or in what order, I think it can be presumed to be more or less the ones we expect, at least based on the era-specific headshots displayed.

I actually like Madonna but the egomaniacal obnoxiousness of the past five years have been way too grating, even by her standards.

interesting to see whether her habit of stealing children is explained as being part of this superhero act or if it'll just be just ignored, I could see it going either way

I don't know why that isn't a bigger scandal. well I sort of do but it should be. I would have said classic at one point but she's a monster

Spotty but interesting Madonna covers album from Italians Do it Better released this week.

― brotherlovesdub, Tuesday, 17 August 2021 14:47 (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

skipped through this earlier and it's almost comically bad

anyone going to her upcoming tour or considering it? I’m thinking about it but pretty hesitant because it’s a hundred for nosebleeds (which is all I can afford) and I have no idea the quality of the show she’ll put on at this point

I'm pretty sure it will be high quality, she generally doesn't skimp on the productions and at this stage she's just another visual cog in a giant colorful wheel.

A friend, about 22 years younger, is going no questions asked. I'm surprised.

Oh I’m sure production-wise it’ll be amazing, I just have my reservations

Yeah, it's been decades since she phoned in a tour, based on what I've seen

We lucked out and got face value tickets for the LA show.

yeah, I found the fan club presale password on Reddit last night and there were a few tix left last night

as of now, idk

Tour delayed. I guess she was in the ICU for a bacterial infection? Scary.

Jesus

https://preview.redd.it/dx9l31hs8t8b1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=7ddad0025559ac50a5d159bbba39b4f99c4a7af4

yikes - get well soon madge!

Get well soon

She has been discharged from the hospital, good news.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66058349

FWIW, Susan Siedelman is appearing at Roxy Cinema in NYC on Thursday, July 27, to do a Q&A for a post-screening discussion of Desperately Seeking Susan which starts at 7pm.

I love the joke with the pyramid jacket – where Susan tells the guy in the thrift store (when she’s trading it for the boots) that it belonged to Jimmy Hendrix… and when Roberta comes in later, asking about it, the guy looks her over and tells her it was owned by Elvis Presley.

North American summer tour cancelled.

We saw her last night at Madison Square Garden. For all the complaints about late start times, once the show gets going it's a non-stop barrage of the Great Pop Canon - rename the tour Madonna's Machine Gun of Hits. The show ends abruptly and ridiculously (not unlike a shootout) running right up against MSG's power-off deadline. It's bass heavy - some songs slam when they should groove. The Michael Jackson tribute interstitial is weird and uncomfortably longer that it should be (like a bad SNL sketch) but ignorable coming after a spectacular "Rain." OTOH, she sounds great and the setlist is unstoppable. Old age and treachery beats youth and exuberance again. I can't imagine anything better from a Madonna show in 2024.

Spoilers here: https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/madonna/2024/madison-square-garden-new-york-ny-43accf6f.html

oh shit

Act VI
Bedtime Story
Ray of Light
Rain

!!!

I think if the poll was run again, I'd vote "Don't Tell Me" as #1

I love this report thank you!!

I talked my wife into going with her friends, she's going to have a blast. What I love about Madonna tours is that while any number of pop pretenders understand spectacle, very few have the personality to do something particularly compelling with it. To their credit Swift and Beyonce both seem to have learned the right lessons from larger than life presentations of the past, but erstwhile peers like that are few and far between.

I was going to sit this out even though I've never been to her shows, but a friend who's a diehard fan treated me to a show when his partner couldn't go, and it was a pretty great spectacle - honestly, maybe the best I've ever been to in terms of production design. (Maybe the one U2 show I saw had the best set piece thanks to that enormous rocketship/claw thing, but Madonna had like a bazillion different sets that were all amazing.)

huh

For the first time on a Madonna tour, there was no live band – according to musical director Stuart Price, this is to let the original recordings shine.

yeah, I noticed TV shows also stopped hiring real string musicians, to let those EastWest plugins shine

lol

No one wants to say “to save some dough”

"Ok Madonna, we've looked at the tour budget and we are a little over. We could either cut the light show, or cut the musicians, what do you think?"

Madonna brought Kylie onstage for a couple songs last night in L.A. and i think the earth's axis shifted.

My wife was there... she thought it was a little odd that they performed "I Will Survive" (and then played just a few bars of "Can't Get You Out of My Head"). Her overall review of the show was mixed...

pretty obvious it was just a quick cameo, maybe somewhat impromptu based on Kylie being in town at the time, and that they'd have to do a couple songs they would both know, just a couple logical picks. def more about the iconic moment being created and not the production values.

Apparently it was the slot in the show where she normally does "Express Yourself."

Which she apparently does acoustic, for some reason, right?

Oh, I don't know... she said "I Will Survive" was acoustic.

She took a pic of Lenny Kravitz walking up the aisle... she also saw Jeff B3zo$ there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1RAd9hPhUU

yes, this acoustic number is part of the show and she’s been alternating between I Will Survive and Express Yourself. there is also the vogueing competition segment, and a different guest judge gets invited in each city (we got pamela anderson in vancouver), so perhaps the plan was to have kylie as a guest judge and they decided to use the occasion to do something more?

She called out a person from the stage for sitting down only to discover they were in a wheelchair!

yeah that was pretty cringe

still in awe of how amazing her show was last night. her voice was pretty much destroyed by the end of the show last night (she was drinking Jager all night on stage and yelling, so no shocker), but she's never been known for being a great singer (though sadly that did cause her to outright ruin "Take a Bow", lol).

but the entire show was beautiful, the theatrical jaunt through the decades of her life were incredible, and considering how hateful our Governor is to the LGBTQIA2S+ community, it was great to see something so sex positive and openly celebratory of all orientations and identities in our state. didn't hurt that the song choices were ace - "Bad Girl" was incredible, "Live to Tell", "Everything", "Burning Up" were some of my favorites. she did fully lip sync "Ray of Light", which is not unexpected, but that was incredibly staged.

but man I wish she'd stop demanding her shows be at 84 degrees, god that was hot. lol.

she was drinking Jager all night

gross

lol otm.

I was kinda side-eyeing her, "you want the arena at 84 degrees for your voice and yet you're ruining it anyway by drinking that all night".

Was it a prop, like David Lee Roth's "Jack Daniels" bottle that was full of iced tea?

I thought DLR (and Michael, and probably EVH, for sure Alex, who had a trash can by his set for barf) was drinking the real thing, but he accused the Clash of drinking iced tea.

I was close (courtesy Hagar's memoir):

They would wake up Al about twenty minutes before show-time. There was always a case of tall Schlitz cans. He would shotgun three or four beers and get his buzz on. He would walk out onstage with a couple more cans in his hands, pound those, and drink the rest of the case during the two-hour show. The crew would put out these big rubber trash cans for him to piss in during the show. After practically every song, he’d piss in the trash can, pound a couple of beers, and start playing again. Sometimes he’d really be fucked up. In the middle of a song, he’d just get up off the drums to take a piss or chug a beer. Eventually he started wearing one of those helmets with beer holders on the side, and straws. At the end of the tour, he needed some help.

xxpost kind of the reverse, she was drinking out of a Budweiser bottle all night, then explained that it wasn't really filled with Budweiser, that it was Jager.

(possible it was water and she was kidding, but judging by how raspy and dry-mouthed she seemed, I doubt it).

my mom was dancing and singing throughout the whole show

Guy Pratt, the British sessioneer who's played with Pink Floyd among other giants, breaks down his fantastic bass part in "Like a Prayer." Check out his playing at 12:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yluPCLc1ltg

That is one of my favorite clips of all time, pretty sure I've posted it somewhere on ILX once or twice.

(His book is great, btw, especially if you want some colorful Robert Palmer tales.)

Since some “pick five favorite Madonna songs off the top of your head” prompt is floating around out there, here’s mine:

Cherish
Don’t Tell Me
Hung Up
Live To Tell
Material Girl

Borderline
Live to tell
Til death do us part
Ray of light
Material girl

Borderline
Into the Groove
Live to Tell
Open Your Heart
Take a Bow

WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT'S NOT IN THE COMPUTER?!?

Live to Tell
Ray of Light
Music
Express Yourself
Borderline

Borderline
Lucky Star
Into The Groove
Like A Prayer
Cherish

Top of head:

Live to Tell (perfect)
Open Your Heart (relentlessly perfect)
Borderline (so innocent)
Into the Groove (synth bass)
Who's That Girl (what a joyful bridge!)
Spanish Eyes (wild card, a fusion of Live to Tell and La Isla Bonita, nice chord changes)

Oh shit I picked six

Gah, I already miss Don't Tell Me, I Deserve It, Like a Prayer ...

True Blue
Open Your Heart
Bad Girl
Crazy For You
Into The Groove or Borderline i cant decide

1. Open Your Heart
2. Burning Up
3. Live To Tell
4. Angel
5. Lucky Star

Agh, Crazy for You ...

It's a fascinating thing, Madonna. There is a bunch of stuff ingrained in my memory from childhood, simply by dint of growing up with her all over the radio/place. But then there's all the awesome stuff she kept making that I gravitated to (for lack of a better term) by choice. And then there's all the old stuff I rediscovered because I never really bought her records, since there were so many songs out there to hear passively. In fact I think the only Madonna album I owned contemporaneously was "True Blue," which I'm OK with, because it's her best album.

Every list should have at least one of “Live To Tell” and “Into The Groove” if not both, because those are her best songs

My next five because so what:

6. Deeper and Deeper
7. Hung Up
8. Bad Girl
9. Words
10. Borderline

Burning Up
Borderline
Lucky Star
Like a Virgin
Into the Groove

oooo, Burning Up ...

I always made a lyrical connection between "Unlike the others, I'd do anything/I'm not the same, I have no shame/I'm on fire" and "Don't harass me, can't you tell/I'm going home, I'm tired as hell/I'm not the cat I used to be/I got a kid, I'm 33"

my next five

6 Live To Tell
7 Papa Dont Preach
8 Everybody
9 La Isla Bonita
10 Angel

Deeper and Deeper
Sky Fits Heaven
Get Together
Vogue
Borderline

Like A Prayer
Into the Groove
Material Girl
Crazy for You
Live To Tell

And you can dance.

Sky Fits Heaven

what an earworm

Vogue
Who's That Girl
Express Yourself (the single version)
Deeper and Deeper
Live To Tell

lol mine is going to be weird

Ray Of Light
Human Nature
Into The Groove
Sooner Or Later (ya the Sondheim song)
Like A Virgin

I do love Vogue but I like Terre Thaemlitz more
Borderline was always my least favourite of her early indelibles
Like A Prayer is produced like a megamusical and I never personally had space for it
Material Girl is def my #6 that song is amazing
Hung up is #7
Frozen is my favourite of her "lock/key" dichotomy songs (and you can only have one favourite, sorry Open Your Heart)

^ oh and that's "Like A Prayer" (album), I'm just not keen on the production in general. Some great songs lots of great performances tho

Borderline was always my least favourite of her early indelibles

Frozen is probably my very close 6. For whatever reason I’ve always really liked slow Madonna songs a lot, despite my better half saying that she ruined her delivery when she learned to sing for Evita, so I was thinking about Rain, Love Don’t Live Here Anymore and What It Feels Like for a Girl but I don’t like Rain enough, the Take That cover of Love…is better and I got stuck trying to remember if there’s a particular remix of What it Feels Like… that is actually what I love. I think also my love of that one is connected to some dim memory of it being about Britney?

Express Yourself is one of the first music videos I remember watching when I was very young, it’s the lighting/silhouette combo and ofc it’s a banger as well. Fuck, I just remembered Beautiful Stranger but I might have had fatigue from overplay that stops me remembering how much I love it.

holiday
open your heart
burning up
like a prayer
rain

(how on earth am i the first person today to say holiday??!?!?!?)

Burning Up
Lucky Star
Holiday
Crazy for You
Into the Groove

Nothing against the later stuff, but forced to pick only five, it just ended up being all '80s hits.

Crazy for You
Live to Tell
Open Your Heart
Like a Prayer [7" single version]
Express Yourself [video version]

Borderline
Crazy For You
Open Your Heart
Til Death Do Us Part
Deeper and Deeper

Am I the only one who prefers the album version of "Express Yourself" ? Much more dynamic than the single version imo.

Top of my head, probably missing something:

Holiday
Borderline
La Isla Bonita
Live to Tell
Cherish

nah, i prefer the 7” single version

(xpost)

I gather that I'm weirdly agnostic among Madonna fans when it comes to album vs. single versions, at least regarding the 80s stuff. I have the albums, I have The Immaculate Collection--it's all good.

Dear Jessie
Oh Father
Dress You Up
Die Another Day
White Heat

mmm yeah Dress You Up is grear!

The backing vocals right as the chorus comes in

from your head down to your toe-ooh-wows

i don't know if it's just because of the video, but the album version of Express Yourself always felt too cute and not powerful enough.

yeah kinda weaksauce imo

Am I the only one who prefers the album version of "Express Yourself" ? Much more dynamic than the single version imo.

― LeRooLeRoo,

hi!

Express Yourself
Into the Groove
Frozen (mostly the video tbh)
Borderline
Holiday

I saw the Blond Ambition tour and had a fucking blast but I never, ever listen to Madonna anymore.

Of stuff that no-one else has yet mentioned, I'd include one of the stately ballads: "Something to Remember", "This Used To Be my Playground" or "You'll See".

Lucky Star
Holiday
Into the Groove
Dress You Up
Material Girl

Deeper and Deeper
Skin
Don't Tell Me
Rain
Beautiful Stranger

"Beautiful Stranger"
"Open Your Heart"
"Ray of Light"
"Holiday"
"Miles Away"

One quirky one.

Holiday
Into the Groove
White Heat
Erotica (Masters at Work Bass Hit Dub)
La Isla Bonita (Sepp Edit)

Happy to see the Deeper & Deeper love here, love that one so much

I'm not sure I am familiar with any 7" single versions. Are they radically different, or just radio edits?

Some of them, like "Express Yourself", "Keep It Together", and "Celebration" are very different. Most of them are just radio edits.

Feel like back in the 1990s or early 2000s, Justify My Love would have enjoyed a lot more action in this thought exercise

Live To Tell
Bad Girl
Lucky Star
Physical Attraction
Open Your Heart

Vogue
Take a Bow
Substitute for Love
Ray of Light
Don't Tell Me

into the groove
holiday
crazy for you
drowned world/substitute for love
god control

I LOATHE the Shep Pettibone remix of Express Yourself. Always have, always will.

.. which one? :)

Vogue
Open your heart 12”
Justify your love (William orbit mix)
Deeper and deeper
Secret garden

The justify your love beast within mix by Lenny Kravitz would also be a fun vote

Brainwasher said this once and I’m fully on board .. an Andre Betts helmed album in the spirit of “waiting” “secret garden” “where life begins” would have been a fire erótica sequel

He didn’t phrase it that way but yea

began today by watching all three of her lengthy Jonathan Ross interviews, from '92, '03 and '15. the 2003 one is my favourite. American Life is my second favourite album of hers anyway for many reasons but on a purely personal level it kinda annoys me (which in turn fascinates me) that i just don't remember that period at all from the time (honestly i think its songs not being on v/a hits compilations contributed to this, but this is also the era where every major album sleeve is burned into my brain from seemingly always being in tesco/asda/hmv/smiths/woolies). I went from having favourites on GHV2 to Hung Up being released and and feeling that Madonna was the biggest thing in pop. That was part of the buzz when I eventually heard AL for the first time (by then contextualised as 'major misstep') and found it to be dazzling and puzzling but hidden from me in plain sight. The thought of an American Life 2 or something like it would intrigue me much more than the Confessions 2 she's apparently making with Price.

surely AL2 = The Mirwais album ?

Madame X? It doesn't scratch a similar sort of itch.

Funnily, Mirwais' version of Miss You *was* something I knew in 2003, because I had it on this compilation