Are there ANY plans to reissue Husker Du?

SST is a horrible label. It's got so much great music and never does a fucking thing to present in it in the fashion it deserves....what a fucking mess.

I've noticed that the mix on New Day Rising gets progressively better as the album goes on, but I really have not heard anything as awful as "New Day Rising" or "Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill" on any CD. It's weird that I've never even noticed it before.

Also, is there anywhere that I can read some details on the relationship between Bob and Grant? I wasn't even aware that they hated each other (I've had Candy Apple Grey for years and years, but have only picked up the band's other albums in the last couple years, so I'm not one of their "long-time fans".)

Sold, bought their way out of their contract or lost by expiry to Rykodisc.

I dunno, check the article.

I believe reading in various places that Mould & Hart were particularly unhappy with the mix of NDR, and that a lot of that was due to wrangling w/Spot & SST for control of the sessions. That's why they did Flip Your Wig themselves, which still sounds bad, but in a different way.

Speaking of fantastic SST albums whose power was severely undercut by piss-poor production, how about Damaged? Shit, Ginn's gotta realize he could probably make a decent dimebag off that.

And Spot...man, I go either way on him. Sometimes he does a really good job (Meat Puppets, Minutemen), sometimes he gets that horribly weak-ass tin can sound (Husker Du, Black Flag).

i'm still debating whether to believe him or not.

It might be my imagination but 8 Miles High sounds a little weaker on cd, but the Warners albums sound the same on cd.

Spot must have gotten a new reverb or something around 1985, as their is a ton on New Day Rising, 3-Way Tie for Last and the last Black Flag albums, where most of the records he did with those bands are pretty dry up until that time.

I suppose we should be happy these bands even got to record some music. Look at how many of the late 70s bands never even got to make an album.

god i have every actual-real HD vinyl release!! i am so lame

Part of the "Y" in DIY includes being a shitty producer. You want Alan Parsons, you buy Alan Parsons.

gor gor OTM here, at least judging from the vinyl albums that are the only way i've ever heard the huskers. all you peeps who want them remixed or remastered are absolutely insane. that raw tinny guitar blur and those buried vocals, esp. on zen arcade and new day rising, are part of what makes them so great. those are two absolutely perfect records. it's when they started trying to clean up the sound that they lost their way.

REMIX/REMASTER ALL OF THEM PLEASE!

All you zealots can hold on to your old copies...Grant Hart is a great drummer, and the drums on all their RECORDS sounds like TOTAL SHIT.

:x

I couldn't agree more - but it's not cleaner I'd like, it's more powerful. Grant fuckin' slams that kit, and you can just tell that Bob's amp had a jet engine's worth of sound coming out of it, but the end result can sound way too thin and (dare I say?) wimpy, undercutting the force of the songs. And HD were NOT wimpy.

DIY is/was vunderbar. However, the concept that it means you have to have shitty recordings is retardo. Lots and lots of people made fantastic recordings with crappy equipment and little technical expertise. Even "bad" sound can be the coolest thing ever, when used in a way that benefits the material (I sure ain't defending the sound of the Warners stuff, which blows, although in a different way - too overproduced & anti-rock, particularly those poor drums, which were criminally shortchanged on nearly every recording they ever made).

Shitty sound works wonderfully for a lot of bands and a lot of styles of songwriting. Husker Du wasn't one of them. It doesn't ruin the albums - they're still in my list of absolute favorites, and I think they hold up regardless of any sonic flaws - but I inevitably wonder how freaking awesome they would sound with just a little more oomph, ie more accurate representations of what the band actually sounded like. Of course, given the nature of things at the time, it's wonderful they were able to record at all. I'll take bad sounding HD albums over no HD albums any day.

I think it's comparable to the Raw Power situation - that album was godlike before the remix/remaster, but it's even better now, and I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish HD would get similar treatment. It isn't going to happen, but whatever.

but the tinny trebly nature of the guitars and drums mean they sound pretty shitty at normal listening volumes or through headphones

I don't like that remix at all. They would have been better off just remastering from the original mix tapes.

The SST stuff is great in the fact that they made do with what they had. If you compare their production to Bad Brains, Minor Threat or other bands of that time, it is about on par. People just didn't have a Protools rig setting on a laptop in every other musicians house in 1983.

While SST business practices are questionable after the fact, if they didn't put out those records most of those bands might not even be known today. By comparison, look at how many of the records put out on Homestead or Restless are completely obscure today, as those labels couldn't keep things in print or could not get them distributed nearly as well.

Agree with gor, fact check, etc. about the production and (vinyl at least) mastering of New Day Rising and Zen Arcade. The records sounds GREAT exactly as they were 1st released, and, more to the point, they sound the way they were meant to sound. Yes, that sound is thin, harsh, and somewhat jarring. It undercuts both the pop and the punk, and, in NDR's case, makes for some fairly difficult listening, at least at first. But again, that's what these records ARE. And bbb OTM. The sound expands and deepens at maximum volume. It's not like the muscle you're looking for doesn't exist, just that it's kinda buried. Which makes this a very different situation than the Bowie version of Raw Power (which was NOT improved by Iggy's remix, but I guess that's a different thread). Being a fan of the live act and wishing they'd made different records is fine, but what's done is done.

That said, careful, respectful remastering can be a good thing, and if Bob and Grant really wanted to do it, I'd be curious to hear a remix.

Why does one have to blot out the other? Why can't we have the, like, mono/stereo/bonus cuts/deluxe action-pack a la Village Green Preservation Society on these suckers? That way you can listen to how shitty they sounded in 1984, and how shitty they'd sound with remixing/remastering! A great band, isn't it, that can break through sounding so very shitty and still strike awe into our hearts 25 years later.

I mean, fuck, Blind Lemon Jefferson's records sound better than Hüsker Dü's.

Way late to this thread, but just had a couple Du tracks pop up on shuffle. The tinny sound is what has really kept me from falling head over heels for this band. When I hear a random song pop up unexpectedly, I'm able to really extract from it how great they are, but listening to an entire album just wears me down.

Anyone who thinks the Husker Du CDs sound fine has obviously never heard the vinyl versions. Take Zen Arcade, for instance. Once "Something I Learned Today" hits the needle, the drums pop and crack, then Greg's bass is heavy yet trebly, and when Bob's guitars kick in, you can hear sheets of metallic guitar that just plain disappear on CD.

Yes, the HD albums all had a tinny sound to begin with. Bob said years ago that they wanted the trebly sound because "when you're a kid, you turn the bass all the way down and turn the treble up." He is so right, that's what I always did spinning records on my mom's hi-fi. But believe me folks, the CDs are not an accurate representation of what these records sound like. There are vinyl MP3 and FLAC rips floating around the internets that sound sooo much better than the SST and Warner Bros. CDs. The bootleg CD version of Land Speed Record is a must, even if just for properly breaking it up into 17 tracks (how lazy can you get Ginn, just putting two tracks on the CD, for side one and side two?).

I recently downloaded via eMusic the Rhino reissues of Candy Apple Grey and Warehouse. Not sure if they are true remasters, but they do sound marginally better than the original CDs. Warehouse, in particular, is an album that sounds 100x better on vinyl; there's lots of things going on sonically that just aren't captured on the CD.

Anyway, Bob and Grant's ongoing feud with SST over back royalties is what is holding up any remix/remaster/reissue campaign for this essential catalog. They aren't going to agree to any new releases until they get the back pay they feel is owed them, and we know SST couldn't pay that even if they wanted to.

I never thought much about the Husker's production back at the time, so it can't have been that bad. To be fair, I was always blasting it on a cheap stereo. I was playing (loud) mp3s made from CD in the car yesterday, and again didn't really think much about the sound. It certainly wasn't "great" but wasn't the first thing I thought about. Drums do sound like cardboard boxes...

Am about to do a side-by-side comparison of the New Day Rising needle drop from pbthall's site with a CD rip...

Ok, unless the pbthall rip is a fake (it's from his site) the two versions are laughably similar. I'm sure a remaster would help, but at least in this case I can't see any great reason to fret about only having the CD.

Bob and Grant's ongoing feud with SST over back royalties is what is holding up any remix/remaster/reissue campaign for this essential catalog. They aren't going to agree to any new releases until they get the back pay they feel is owed them, and we know SST couldn't pay that even if they wanted to.
i don't know anything about contracts or back royalties etc., but if the Huskers haven't been compensated by SST properly, isn't there some sort of legal way for them to just get the rights to their recordings back? i mean, if they put out reissues on some other label, does that mean that SST would still get a cut?

I've been waiting on remasters before checking out HD. It seems to happen a lot to me where I'll buy a group's albums and then within a year they get reissued.

yeah i kinda have held off on getting some of their stuff too, because i figure a comprehensive reish program is around the corner. I guess not?

well you think they would reissue sooner rather than later if they're going to do it at all, what with the impending "DEATH OF THE CD" and all - x-post.

People have been talking about reissues for 15 years

Yeah, I'm still waiting for more Springsteen albums to get reissued. It's really taking a long time, though.

bob and grant need to sort out their beefs with each other before they can sort out the legal beefs re: the HD catalogue, so...

How much money do they think SST owes them? it's not like those albums were blockbuster sellers

it's probably more like no one *knows* how much money they're owed. i think sst was notoriously bad at bookkeeping ...

Besides, for every cent the the Husker's get, a little kitten goes hungry!

the black flag cds also sound terrible compared to vinyl imo

guys this is never going to happen

:'(

bob and grant need to sort out their beefs with each other before they can sort out the legal beefs

There was a recent interview with Grant where he said him and Bob don't hate each other any more but he layed into Greg instead.

OK, now that my turntable is back up and running, another reason to go out and buy vintage VINYL!

Does vinyl really help sound quality with respect to hardcore acts like Husker Du?

lol at turning on Greg!

"his food sucks!"

Grant answered a load of fan questions recently on his myspace and remasters didn't sound like they'd be a priority for him from his general tone re: husker

weird because i saw grant open for mike watt in the fall and greg came out and joined both grant, mike w., and mike's band for a big all star jam on "little johnny jewel"....

a couple of friends have been to greg's restaurant and apparently he's an amazing chef

is it greg ginn grant has beef with, rather than greg norton?

LOL @ that confusion.

No it was Greg Norton, not Ginn.

http://www.blurt-online.com/features/view/520

:3(

Haha that interview is hilarious. He's always come off as such a douche.

It was Greg Ginn when I interviewed Grant back in '03 before booking him at the dive bar I was deputy soundguy. He went on about Ginn for a while.

someone like Frank Black who would be eventually bigger in terms of record sales than Husker Du had been, would look back and fool themselves into thinking they were more important or more influential. Maybe more people heard you, but you're not more influential than that which influenced you.
hmmm

http://www.harneyre.com/CountryJournal/Images/SourGrapesPosterSmall.jpg

or which you were influenced by that which has influenced you when you were being influenced by their influence if you ya know what I mean.

jeez grant can be mean

um...there are some statements he makes in there "interesting" to say the least wrt his personal problems

reading about Husker always bums me out. To have made a bunch of really good/great records and to have such a sour taste in your mouth (plus lame-o business problems) about it is kinda sad.

Ok, after spending a couple of days a/b-ing vinyl rips vs. the CD's, I really don't hear any huge difference. The solution to the sonic problems is simple: when you turn it up loud it sounds great. When you don't turn it up loud, it does not sound great. That's it. Problem solved.

wow that interview. what a dick.

http://www.thenortonsrestaurant.com/2006-03-31_Nortons_-_57.jpg

who could say mean stuff about this guy??

i have no doubt he is the nicest member of husker du

seriously

rollie fingers that is

Just smoke a little before you listen to the cds. This works great, especially with Zen Arcade.

Do you ever feel like your contributions to Husker Du are overlooked?

This isn't thrown out as a condemnation of Bob, but I think that my fans know my material better than a lot of Bob's fans know his material. The reason I say that is every time I've gone to see a Bob Mould concert, someone has yelled out the name of one of my songs. When I'm out touring, I maybe hear that one out of five concerts.

i'm not sure that this is what it means?

http://i49.tinypic.com/14cz30x.jpg

Should Husker Du make that decision, and I recognize that's a slim chance, I'd like to think we'd do it for a cause greater than financial remuneration. . . . There was nothing sadder than being around in 1992 or 1993 and watching people like Smashing Pumpkins or Stone Temple Pilots make millions and millions of dollars. That was when the vacuum we created was really obvious.

Yeesh.

Does Greg cook mostly Pringles-based dishes?

http://metadiary.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/beefsteak-charlie-resize.jpg

look for yourself!

http://www.thenortonsrestaurant.com/Dinner%20Menu.htm

looks good!

"I don't care what you say, I don't care what you're drinking today"

http://www.thenortonsrestaurant.com/2006-03-31_Nortons_-_4.jpg

Wish it was a theme restaurant. "I'll have the pork chops with Candy Apple Gravy and a New Beer Rising, please."

Is that a Suicide Commandos record on the wall behind the bar?

Yep, right below The Suburbs "In Combo."

The apostrophe is misplaced on "The Norton's" logo.

Nobody who saw the band live would for a second doubt Greg's contribution. I've talked to all three over the past dozen years, and stopped reporting what they say about each other: Why enable this stuff?

greg and the guy who just left the hold steady should tour together as "the mustachios"

So, you've been clean for a long time?

[My addiction problems] were drawing to a close at the time Husker Du broke up. One of the things that made it possible for me to make those changes was removing that band and influence from my life.

love grant hart's music, but i'm skeptical of this claim to longstanding sobriety

Okay folks, here we go...

http://www.npr.org/2017/09/05/547854997/first-listen-husker-du-savage-young-du

Great story from M. Matos and a full preview listen of all three discs of the Numero box. Go nuts.

i feel bad for spot that every single review of these reissues will mention how bad he was at his job

in a way i'm quite glad that the release of this was stalled until the first year of our lord trump, cos though they've never really been my go-to for social critique, the lyrics on the early stuff really resonate right now

i mean like

why bother spending time
reading up on things
everybody's an authority
in a free land

christ, yeah.

never really though about the sonic similarity between 'statues' and 'you can live at home' before, two quite atypical huskers songs, but also the first and last track they released

today i watched a top of the pops story of 1984 thing on youtube and it reminded me that i played my "smalltown boy" 12-inch about....500 times that year. and then it occurred to me that the album i played the most in 1984 was probably zen arcade. and then it dawned on me how much these two things had in common.

the lyrics on the early stuff really resonate right now
i have always felt this way!! they have good political songs imo. turn on the news, divide and conquer, they're all great!!

xp that's a good spot scott!

There's a certain purity of vision to early Huskers, as there is with much punk and hardcore, but it's really about setting the stage for the real story. Not sure it has much of a story to tell itself any more than, say, the Suicide Commandos boxed set did. As hyped as I am to get any Husker Du set, this seems like mostly archaeology/anthropology.

Though I dunno, Everything Falls Apart And More sounding pretty good right now ... I wonder how much a total newcomer would be into this set if they knew nothing of the later stuff (as unlikely as such a scenario might be)?

the Suicide Commandos boxed set

Wait, the what now?

Anthology, sorry.

This thing:

https://img.discogs.com/sM-zQ05IwEDuwceUWvSHV_MJYa8=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-2825238-1486569612-4775.jpeg.jpg

Oh, wait, is that a bootleg? Never mind.

track list looks like it includes the "Amusement" Record Store Day single Numero put out

http://www.numerogroup.com/products/hsker-d-amusement-3

I hadn't seen that before, it's Make A Record plus their two singles. I was hoping for unreleased stuff. Listening to the first Huskers disc, some of the poppier demos sound like the Commandos to me. I saw them very early on, but don't recall ever hearing them sound like that live. xp

Isn't Katzman putting out a brand new Suicide Commandos record?

http://first-avenue.com/sites/default/files/images/events/timebomb_album.jpg

It's fantastic!

xp

https://www.discogs.com/The-Suicide-Commandos-Time-Bomb/master/1196599

wonder how much a total newcomer would be into this set if they knew nothing of the later stuff (as unlikely as such a scenario might be)?

Not too hard to imagine someone in their teens/early twenties never having heard them before and being intrigued by either the post punk or hardcore angle. When was the last time husker du were reviewed in pitchfork for instance?

Hmm, maybe? Does anyone in their teens/early 20s even listen to hardcore? Or any of the SST acts? I have no idea. I don't even know if anyone in their teens listens to Van Halen.

Does anyone in their teens/early 20s even listen to hardcore?

there's certainly hardcore kids around I don't know if they listen to old hard core or new bands tho.

black flag and misfits shirts never go away

omg lol at young ppl listening to van halen
i can see HD resonating WAY more with youth of today than van halen!!

my kid likes old stuff. he went and saw DRI this summer. he's 14.

the lack of sexist lyrical content alone make HD more current than the average punk/hc/heavy/loud band from the '80s

i didn't realize it at the time but that was a huge part of their appeal for me as a young person

re: new generations getting into Hüsker Dü - yes, yes, yes! it is possible & needs to happen! i said this in the other thread, but I heard Flip Your Wig for the first time when I was 19, and I couldn't believe how great it was & how the fuck I had missed out on hearing it a decade after I became a Nirvana & Green Day superfan. "Makes No Sense At All" is the gateway for young teenagers and pre-teens imo. I'm happy this is coming out - anything HD related that's new is good, and I adore Everything Falls Apart - but as NickB mentioned, HD is consistently overlooked & forgotten by publications that are responsible for exposing tons of young kids to awesome old shit. there'd be no reason to do a retrospective review of the SST records because the digital/CD versions sound like absolute fucking shit. HD is one of the only bands where the difference between the digital & the vinyl is incredibly stark.

re: resonance of the primitive political lyrics - i completely agree, i listen to "In a Free Land" and "Everything Falls Apart" whenever I'm feeling especially hopeless or forlorn. this one sticks with me:

GOT NOTHING TO DO
GOT NOTHING TO SAY
EVERYTHING IS SO FUCKED UP
I GUESS WE LIKE IT THAT WAY
EVERYTHING FALLS APART

totally
i also enjoyed reading Things Fall Apart knowing this song

although i think different sounds resonate with different young people, there is a lot to like in HD that they won't find in a lot of HD's contemporaries

definitely. i could never get into Black Flag, Big Black, even The Replacements. it's all so dull, black & white sounding to me. rudimentary songwriting, playing, and guitar sounds. Mould is just a monster as a player: his Frankenstein amp & effects setup is just insane, & his tendency to write entire songs in the first position on the guitar, making his massive setup sound even bigger thru the use of drone notes. it's that swirling, silver, electric metallic sound that can't be tamed. and that's just the guitar. lyrically he was so much more nuanced and interesting than his SST contemporaries.

i have to re-read Things Fall Apart - read it in 8th grade & remember almost none of it.

I pre-ordered but it looks like the DL links are not yet working:

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.

Bob and esp Grant are, uh, kinda smokin' in that pic w/ Matos' piece.

grant was a super cutie

well I think their dissolute touring lifestyle took an obvious toll mid- to late HuDu.

Similar to The Smiths, lack of communication & lack of management/guidance did them in without much time to reflect. It's just such a shame. I often think about Mould's quote at the end of the HD chapter in Azerrad's Our Band Could Be Your Life: "We could've done so much more."

For anyone who hasn't read it yet, the bit on this page about the cover of Metal Circus is pretty interesting and i feel like a big dummy for not noticing any of that stuff before:

http://www.numerogroup.com/products/hsker-du-extra-circus

colored vinyl edition already sold out, it appears

http://www.thirdav.com/hd_images/msp_sites/milton_bldg.html

Wonder if Spot is still a fixture in Austin, and if he and Bob ever ran into each other when Bob lived there.

Some of that early stuff on the box reminds me of the Buzzcocks, especially stuff like Picture Of You.

I totally got into HD when I was 16, after Krist Novoselic suggested Nevermind sounded like HD. First HD album I bought was Land Speed Record, which threw me off the trail a little - but my next one was Zen Arcade, and after that I was hooked forever. If there's any way a kid will dig a band from before they're born, HD are a good candidate for obsession.

[They'd only really been split four years when I got into them, but that still felt like forever tbh]

Yeah, I had LSR, undeniably a strong band but a hard listen.

I just dialled "Warehouse" up on Spotify this morning for various reasons, blimey a lot of it is like some of the songs I wrote back in the day, no wonder they were as influential as they were.

I love LSR now but it's like choosing Free Jazz as your first jazz LP.

LSR is a punishing listen but it has the best song titles: "Let's Go Die," "Push the Button," "Guns at My School," "I'm Not Interested," "Tired of Doing Things"...

The alternative to "Land Speed Record" included in this box set appears to be the September 5th, 1981 Minneapolis at 7th St Entry.

so killer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HPBNuofVLo

Feel like I can gauge my mental wellbeing by the number of times the phrase 'lets go die' pops into my mind during any given month tbh (sad lols)

Why should I stay and give my life away?

bricklayer is just blistering on LSR - 3 verses, 3 choruses, guitar solo, in, what, 54 seconds?

Anyone have the "Live...First Avenue 85" recorded for SPIN radio's concert series? How does it sound?

Hoffman forum is all over this release btw, and this was posted recently:

For what it is worth, in a discussion of this set on another message board, this was posted:
"I have a friend at Numero Group. A Zen Arcade centric box will be out some time around the turn of the year."

Let's hope he's right!!

more speculation, sure, but hey it's fun!

I have a vinyl boot of it and its a little muffle but strong, and definitely worth having.

not gonna lie this reissue burst of dü news has me pumped on listening to them again

oh fuck yeah xxp. any boxset with 1983-4 shows = instant purchase

im sure you all have seen this but it should be reposted as often as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1fBMtaVd9s

fuck. that guitar sound

Bob is wired to the gills on speed and he can't even move around!!

yeah I think a lot of people shit on Spot for how the Huskers records sound (which I actually would argue if they sounded like more conventionally "better" rock albums, they would be worse)...but I think the band just really had a weird ass sheet metal roar sound to them

i've said this before but the LPs sound great, Zen Arcade & New Day Rising in particular. they have the low-end that the digital transfers have always lacked, without sacrificing any of that sheet metal roar. hearing "Chartered Trips" on vinyl for the first time was an incredible experience. although it's my favorite Hüskers record, Flip Your Wig has that horribly dated gated reverb on the drums, and there's no remaster that can fix that.

sheet metal roar is so OTM

i saw them for the first time in early '85 at the Peppermint Lounge in NYC and they were... very roarish.

The sound of Flip Your Wig was a total letdown for me even though the songwriting was of a piece, after ZA and NDR made them my favorite band. Never been able to pinpoint why, but yeah, it's the drum sound. So thanks for pointing that out! That improved on Candy Apple, but I only like Grant's songs on that one. Warehouse, the songwriting comes back but the sound is thinner than ever.

Purely from a production standpoint, I'd rank the studio work Zen Arcade = Everything Falls Apart > New Day Rising = Metal Circus > Candy Apple Gray > Flip Your Wig = Warehouse. Maybe I would rank them that way overall. The Spot albums sound better than the final three self-produced ones. "Eight Miles High" is a brilliant piece of production in a lot of non-standard ways. The snare falls out when the lead riffs are foregrounded, then comes back in and dices up the blur-guitar verses to make them sharper. The vocals have really long delay that's basically smothered under the blur, but seems accidentally in counterpoint to the chime of the open strings. A lot of their later material potentially could have that kind of dynamics, but they just seemed to nudge all the sliders to the same place went for it.

are there *any* american indie bands from the 80s who have "good" production, really? replacements are pretty iffy, sonic youth's early stuff is muddy as hell, ditto dino jr ... all the SST bands obviously. i mean, for me, this production is part of the overall appeal of these bands, an amateurish/rawness that is maybe not *pleasant* but is kind of un-ignorable when it's playing.

guess i think of spot's production as matching pettibon's SST art — scary, stark and tasteless!

hard disagree on Dinosaur Jr., those records have heft & Mascis' guitar is soaring. Sister & EVOL sound fantastic, but Daydream Nation is v flat & muddy. I'm not suggesting the HD records would've been better with Butch Vig producing, it's just a matter of mixing & EQ really. Like, the rehearsal tapes of them doing Zen Arcade sound SOOO much better than the album. Skip to 6:25 to hear "Chartered Trips" in all its punishing glory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q95JFFe0Bsg

yay I got my MP3s!

are there *any* american indie bands from the 80s who have "good" production, really?

late in the decade but i always thought bitch magnet's 'umber' sounded great - spacious, powerful, love the way some of those songs (e.g. goat-legged country god, punch & judy) leap right out of the speakers. i think working with albini on the previous record must've really made them think hard about the basics of how to record instruments

those Butthole Surfers records sound great, imo (at least Psychic, Locust, and Hairway, never liked Rembrandt as much)

REM had pretty pro/solid production from the start

I.R.S. not an indie iirc (takes off 80's cool hat)

i actually got an early-ish CD of zen arcade this year and thought it sounded awesome. i don't know why. just some sort of compression thing with the drums that sounded cool to me and the digi-sound seemed to make the guitars sound even more like killer bees than they already did. i kept it for myself. and it was loud in the right way. i can crank it.

But honestly the truth is that if these bands had gotten "good" production it would have been some BoDeans ass bullshit not like going to Electrical Audio in the 2000s or something

woah wrt IRS they fooled me (and the police connection!)

es Copeland III, the son of CIA agent Miles Copeland Jr., played many roles in the U.K. punk rock and new wave music industry of the middle to late 1970s: agent, manager, producer, magazine publisher, record company and label owner. His brother Ian was the head of a talent agency, Frontier Booking International (F.B.I.), while his brother Stewart played drums for The Police, a band that Copeland managed. The Police's first album was released on A&M Records in 1978 with a hit single, "Roxanne", that Copeland called a turning point in his life.[2]

Building on success with the Police, Copeland convinced Jerry Moss, co-owner of A&M, to establish the I.R.S. division in 1979. I.R.S. stood for International Record Syndicate.[3]

wait - Double Nickels on the Dime, that record sounds great! (in a pretty conventional way)

wow there are six "unknown date" SST CD pressings of Zen Arcade listed on Discogs :(

SST keeps fucking all this stuff up so bad, I think I saw something on the Hoffman thread about them pressing vinyl reissues with worn-out stampers which explains some things

Ginn is such a piece of shit, sad he has control over such an important part of American rock music

and X - Los Angeles was on Slash, and sounds great but not too slick god bless Ray Manzarek #strangedaysmono

the roar of the mascis could be um, worn-out stampers

oh yeah, X's Los Angeles and Double Nickels do sound good — i mean, i wouldn't really want any of these records to sound different (maybe zen arcade is the exception? i'll check that rehearsal).

X albums got remastered in early 2000s.

Meat Puppets Up on the Sun sounds fantastic. As do Mirage and Huevos.

I always thought NoMeansNo's Wrong sounded fantastic

Pretty sure not all of Spot's records sound like the Huskers (My War, Meat Puppets).

Damaged sounds pretty fuckin good as well, y'all

(that being said, there are other engineers credited)

Spot also had to deal with getting all these fucking nutcases to record albums

Also based on the records that Mould produced in the early 80s, Man Sized Action & Impaler, he was into that harsh/thin sound. And no less of an authority than Terry Katzmann once told me that "those records sound exactly how they want them to"

We can talk about terrible cd transfers from the early 90s but those original SST LPs sound great. Weird, bracing, eccentric, sure, but still great.

yeah the Impaler record is a blast but sounds v thin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSP1s3WA2_8

I think the Minutemen were easier to record well because there was more space in their sound and arrangements rather than the sheets of metal and cardboard box drums. All the 80s Feelies albums sounded great in different ways, as did Mission Of Burma. Wipers sort of had similar issues as the Huskers.

good call on MoB, Vs. sounds incredible

Context is a factor. I remember one hot summer day moving into a house with some friends after my first year of college and the first thing we did before anything else was moved was set up the stereo with big heavy beat-up 70s-era speakers. We blasted Zen Arcade at window-shaking volume and it sounded amazing. But in the context of say, a digital playlist next to other recordings, it kind of sounds like ass.

Yeah Burma records were great, Roger Miller was a schooled musician so maybe he liked it more pro

Ex: The fact that they deliberately meant for the vocals on "Chartered Trips" to sound like Squidwad trapped in a garbage can amazes me.

It's more jarring to me as HD had a big sound that was anthemic in its own way. And the biggest selling act on SST by far (according to the Azerrad book).

Minutemen, by contrast and by design, were never going to be mistaken for an arena band.

Though Minutemen were apparently SUPER loud

Out there in the desert, I see trees on every wall
Nothing's ever solved

"Yeah Burma records were great, Roger Miller was a schooled musician so maybe he liked it more pro"

tons of boston records sound great. indie and punk and hardcore and new wave. all kinds. maybe in the back of their minds they thought they could be the cars.

i was listening to this today. sounds so cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=65&v=7iAzxE8S3XI

'Squidward trapped in a garbage can' - I will never be able to unhear that.

Norman Records are indeed selling the vinyl in the UK - £79 delivered which isn't too harsh given the shit nature of the pound vs dollar

Confession: I've never had a problem with the way my Husker Du discs sounded. I remember reading Christgau's reviews of the albums, and even he would bring up the bad production, but it's always been exactly what I wanted from the band. I even like the drum sound, which I don't think is gated reverb. It's something a lot more eccentric.

I cant imagine the albums sounding any other way. If they had been more polished I doubt we would like them as much.

totes agree with those 2 posts

MoB sounded great on Vs. in part because Rick Harte (Ace of Hearts) was Ginn's exact opposite, and the mensch of Boston label owners. Everything done right.

I've listened to the NPR streaming, and it feels like the remasters have done the standard thing—fill in the bass to make the sound fuller. (And also to bring everything up to current loudness standards, of course, which is fine.) But I'm not sure a fuller Husker Du is always a better Husker Du. You can subtly take the edge off the sound and make it a touch sluggish, too. It'll probably sound great on cheap headphones, though, which is too frequently the target of remastering nowadays.

Thing is I don't think it's lack of polish that's the problem with the production on Husker Du records. There are loads of punk/hardcore records with way cruddier lo-fi production than Husker Du/other SST records from that time that still manage to sound good. I think it's the mixing? Maybe just a bit of EQ-ing would make them better, I dunno. Obviously this is a taste thing as well, I'm used to "raw" punk production and generally dislike "slick" production on punk records.

Mind you the only Husker Du I have on vinyl is Flip Your Wig, the rest is all on CD, so it could be the bad CD transfer or whatever.

Would also say my issues with Husker Du production mostly go away if you crank it loud enough!

Pretty fair to say, I think, that Copper Blue or maybe Beaster is what HD might have sounded like with traditional "good" production, but that would not have worked well. It needs that jagged in the red feel. There's a reason they call it stun guitar.

Wait what are blue oyster cult doing in the huskers thread???

Seriously though, does anyone have a line on some decent huskers vinyl rips? In my original fandom I had them all on cassette, and those were replaced by CDs. I never heard them on vinyl... and people's description intrigues me.

I love those first two Sugar records so much

The bass on Zen Arcade / NDR sounds like it went through a Laney 'Klipp' combo with the mega-compression button pushed in. It's truly horrible. With a better bass sound the whole thing would improve no end, but I guess that was the sound they were after (or maybe they just didn't know any better).

I really don't blame spot particularly. Bob Moulds guitar sound, there is no way to better capture anything that loud and in the red. there is just no space in it at all.

Where was I just reading about the Minutemen guitar approach? That D Boon would just turn the treble all the way up on his amp, and turn the bass all the way down, then crank it?

the MP3s sound great, I just skipped around a bit last night

I also got an email confirmation

They tweeted last nite they had some overrun of the Extra Circus 7 inch...so I ordered the 3CD + 7 inch, order went through, we'll see

Where was I just reading about the Minutemen guitar approach? That D Boon would just turn the treble all the way up on his amp, and turn the bass all the way down, then crank it?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, September 8, 2017 10:03 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And he was using a Tele, so OUCH

"Can't See You Anymore" is the best "Yeah!!! Just gotta have sex!" so funny

I also can't believe I'm listening to this and waiting for my vinyl of Neil Young Hitchhiker to arrive

haha otm

Where was I just reading about the Minutemen guitar approach? That D Boon would just turn the treble all the way up on his amp, and turn the bass all the way down, then crank it?

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, September 8, 2017 10:03 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They considered guitar and bass to be separate, sovereign states with no over lap so...yeah

Wish I woulda bought that Statues Record Store Day a couple years ago, those songs are great

I think all four of the tracks from that double 7" are on this new box, fwiw

oh yeah i meant i'm hearing them and they are great! wish i woulda sprung for it back then just to have the 7 inch

i had it in my hand then put it down to buy something else

it's funny how some of this stuff puts lie to the narrative that they started out as wild ass hardcore kids that couldn't play and eventually developed songwriting chop

like "Writer's Cramp" in particular is a well crafted and well played little power pop/punk number that's far from hardcore

totally otm, they began as a post-punk band

People are talking about the thin, razor-in-the-red, sheet metal roar of Mould's guitar & the lack of bass & low-end as if they're mutually exclusive. Listen to the Zen Arcade rehearsals I posted upthread, it's not an either/or, you can have both! and it sounds glorious

Industrial Grocery Store is a great pop number

FWIW I still don't have a confirmation email from Numero yet, but I just checked my site account and the item field is finally filled in with what I ordered - and my download is available (half a GB!) - so that's a relief. Shame it took them three-plus days to fix it. And if it were me, I would have more regularly piped up with a 'sorry things got messed up, we're working on it' message.

Reports coming in that Grant Hart has passed away.

so sad. bob might've been a more consistent songwriter, but grant's songs were my favourites. saw him play solo a decade or so ago, and he was just incandescent. that second nova mob album was sorely overlooked, too.

Fuck fuck fuck fuck

In actual tears. So long grant :(

Whoa, unexpected.

Thread title needs modification..

Just when I was wondering if a reunion could be a possibility..

RIP - 56 is way too young

Thanks, Grant, for always having a kind word and a smile for teenage me whenever we bumped into each other. Also for being one of the first gay guys I ever met, which was an important role to play in the lives of Minneapolis teen punks and wavers trying to escape the suburban mindset. Thanks for playing for us (and with us). RIP; you were a lovely man.

Aw man, RIP Grant.

this is seriously making me so sad. 56?!

I'm a mess tbh

Did you ever hug him, LL? I definitely remember us discussing the idea of you hugging him at a show.

I did!! The pics are bad but I did give him an earnest hug, the most sincere kind of hug you can give a person.

what the fucking fuck

thanks for that post, suzy

xpost oh i'm glad to hear that. That feels consoling to know.

this was the first of 4 or 5 shows i saw; they did "Ticket to Ride"

http://www.thirdav.com/hd_discog/05_live_audio.html#08May1985

Good God, that setlist is incredible

No! Awful. RIP Grant.

other thread for reference, not because of your post cuz this is indeed awful and is hitting me in several different ways:

RIP Grant Hart

this is a lovely thing on numero's insta
https://instagram.com/p/BZL8M3qhwEH/

Savage Young Du really rewrites the commonly accepted narrative of Husker Du (wild speedfreak hardcore kids who gradually grew out of it and embraced melody and craftsmanship)

some the earliest stuff on this set (pre-Land Speed Record) is actually (though less sophisticated songwriting-wise) is as melodic and mid-tempo as later stuff on Candy Apple Grey or Warehouse

that makes sense, from what I remember of Mould's book and the chapter in Azerrad's book, Hart and Mould bonded over 60s pop as well as all their punk records & started playing hardcore because it was what was going on at the time.

i mean they were covering Donovan and the Byrds pretty early on

I think part of the reason that narrative developed was because the 1st single ("Statues"), which is in that earlier style, was basically out of print/unavailable until the Everything Falls Apart reissue in the 90s.

I am seriously anticipating being able to crank this stuff up in glorious non-MP3 fidelity

btw Extra Circus is now available digitally on Bandcamp, as noted on some other thread.

I can't remember if I mentioned this earlier but I'm really disappointed by the remix/remaster of "In a Free Land." Pumped the bass up and all the magic of those swirly silver stun guitars is gone. But "Everything Falls Apart" sounds better so I guess it's even. Also I got that Record Store Day reissue of "In a Free Land" and it sounds tight so w/e, psyched for the Zen Arcade box

good lord that reissue is pricy

have you been able to compare it to the Ryko EFA reissue versions?

Rhino!

that makes sense, from what I remember of Mould's book and the chapter in Azerrad's book, Hart and Mould bonded over 60s pop as well as all their punk records & started playing hardcore because it was what was going on at the time.

― flappy bird, Thursday, October 26, 2017 12:01 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean they were covering Donovan and the Byrds pretty early on

― flappy bird, Thursday, October 26, 2017 12:01 PM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also, in general Minneapolis punk is fundamentally misunderstood because no one that's not from here really gets that the Suicide Commandos are the most important Minneapolis band ever and that without Chris Osgood is really the central figure to the Minneapolis punk scene, and the Commandos were def one of those bands that existed in that pre-punk nexus between emerging punk, Nuggets, the Who, power pop, DEVO, etc, and everyone in any Mpls band of note would have looked up to them. But overall, I think Minneapolis punk was much less adversarial to classic rock and "year zero" mentality than punk in other cities.

Also like I dunno, classic rock is just in the water here, and KQRS was so dominant for years

Rhino!

sorry, thanks!

KQ RULES

the Suicide Commandos rule! so glad I got turned on to that album in the 80's, I was able to find the records back in the day

iconic t-shirt

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1566/3805/products/KQRS_PlainBlack_800x.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7ZbNVb7Qh0

one of the great videos ever, directed by chuck statler from mpls who later went on to direct whip it and other devo videos

wow, never seen that, thanks so much.

Your Numero Group Order Has Been Shipped

Got mine the other week -- very nice indeed.

My CD box arrived last week too, with the 7-inch. Shame there was no download code for those tracks, though.

wow Extra Circus is really fucking good! mystery why they didn't just make Metal Circus an album really

Iirc, there were some additional teases from Numero Group about further Husker Du releases, but I haven't heard anything lately. Still crossing my fingers for further reissues.

Gotta say though, if Numero Group does go ahead with more Du reissues, I sincerely hope they make an exception to the recent "no more CDs" decision. It would really be a shame if these guys managed to never get a decent CD release of their albums.

fuckin Greg Ginn, how I hate him

evergreen post imho

dude has straight up stolen a significant chunk of US 80's punk history, god it just enrages me

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DR9pmjaX4AU2uku.jpg

If it helps, I'd try pulling in the top end and filling out the bottom more. It's pretty much a standard EQ curve for anything that sounds thin, which is how those CD's and their digital masters currently sound. I'm sure the transfer could be better, but that EQ adjustment alone on a parametric equalizer would make a big difference.

Honestly, I really can't help but wonder how much larger their rep would stand today had they gotten proper reissues out sometime between 2005 and 2015. It's not like they are forgotten and Mould has a pretty great solo career going, but I feel like the "discovered" live album, Dead Man's Pop and steady reissues helped the 'Mats to no end in terms of cache with younger listeners that might not have been around and it kills me to see Husker Du not getting the same thing.

When I interviewed Carducci for my Flag book, he was insistant that the Huskers CDs sounded fine and didn't need remastering. Which is nonsense.

I interviewed Bob around his last solo album and asked him about further Du reissues and he said:

"I guess SST’s keeping them in print, and that was the main issue for a while. I think this Numero box set definitely cleared out the archives, in terms of unheard music. A lot of that stuff was floating around on the internet, but it had never been compiled and re-mastered and it never had as deep an accompaniment as Numero gave it, in terms of images and liner notes and all that. I think everything got exhausted, and the SST stuff, that’s sort of out of my hands – I don’t really worry about it as long as the music is available to people right now, and people are getting paid; I guess that’s all you can ask of what’s left of the music business."

Ugh, that's such a bummer. I mean, I don't blame Mould for having to just let go of what he can't control but that answer pains me.

i'm always a bit tickled when people complain about the mixing on the originals tbh. can understand wanting them on a newer format tho

I was under the impression it was Grant's death that has (so far) delayed a second box/further Numero stuff - as Bob is so tied into his touring and release schedule, there wasn't an obvious person to help them make the second one happen as easily as the first. Which is fair enough as Bob wants to focus on what he's doing now and no blame on him for that. But i'm hopeful Numero will have more stuff to come... one of them has mentioned a possible archival live release they wanted to do. That makes sense really if they can't put out any of the official SST stuff. I would totally go for a live box!

the original LPs sound just like they should and how the band want them to. i've heard the CDs are badly mastered though and the difference in 20-30 years of technology would no doubt help them.

yeah that makes absolute sense

Mould did a great interview with Sound Opinions in the '00s where he talks about this. Not sure if anyone can find it out there, but I was very green about SST at the time and I was stunned when Mould said they never received any royalties on those CD releases. He said Warner Bros. never failed to send him a check on a regular basis for the three CD's they were keeping in-print at the time, but he had yet to receive a dime from SST. For that reason alone, the band had an interest in taking back the catalog and reissuing it (and thus remastering it) elsewhere, but internal squabbles prevented that from happening. Going by what Mould and Hart later discussed, it sounded like the issue was control, and Hart felt that Mould wanted too much of it.

i'm always a bit tickled when people complain about the mixing on the originals tbh.

Yeah, I mean, the vinyl sounds great, and always has. The CDs sound pretty tinny and quiet, tho.

yeah i only ever bought Warehouse on CD and that was to replace my vinyl so i probably never noticed

I always feel with SST that the vibe was like George Bailey in It's A Wonderful Life when there's a run on the old building and loan, with Ginn being like, "I don't have your money, Bob, it's in the Minutemen's next album, and the Meat Puppets' next album, and Sonic Youth's next album," like they were paying it forward to the next SST band and would see it again when they got their budget for their next album. But that's a harder pill to swallow when the money is being sunk into albums by Gone and Greg Ginn solo joints and Tom Troccoli's Dog.

thats exactly what it was like. Huskers and Minutemen both had long delay problems getting their respective doubles out in 84 - and despite warning SST it would be big, they only printed up maybe 5000 copies of Zen Arcade, which sold out almost right away and led to months (3-6 i think!) where they were touring the album (which had amazing reviews) and nobody could buy it. Black Flag release FOUR albums that year. no wonder Bob doesnt want to delve into the legal shit on this.

oh not to mention Greg / SST were also claiming all of the bands mechanical royalties for years until around the time they moved to a major and the legal people there told them how fucked up that was and they got them back

it's not just the CDs, it's every version of the albums on the internet. there are some good rehearsal tapes for Zen Arcade and NDR on youtube that I listen to more than the albums

yo hmu on ilxmail for HQ direct vinyl rips of my personal copies

this is making me curious how different it sounds -- i have only ever heard the CD versions except for NDR which i bought a vinyl copy of bc i am a nerd and it's one of my favorite rock albums ever.

the recordings could be a lot better but I kind of liked the harsh, tinny, metallic, trebly sound of Metal Circus, Zen Arcade, New Day Rising

those extremely harsh guitar sounds were incredible I thought

thats exactly what it was like. Huskers and Minutemen both had long delay problems getting their respective doubles out in 84 - and despite warning SST it would be big, they only printed up maybe 5000 copies of Zen Arcade, which sold out almost right away and led to months (3-6 i think!) where they were touring the album (which had amazing reviews) and nobody could buy it.

but I feel like the "discovered" live album, Dead Man's Pop and steady reissues helped the 'Mats to no end in terms of cache with younger listeners that might not have been around and it kills me to see Husker Du not getting the same thing.

Another thing that helping the 'Mats ensure their legacy was Trouble Boys getting published.

A long time ago, I'd come home after a lonesome night, put Zen Arcade on the record player and turn it up loud enough to where I couldn't hear the phone if it rang.

These private remasters are hit and miss, but this one gets close to what it sounded like on my turntable at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emHpV2k0Jg

Trouble Boys did more to ruin my ability to enjoy the Replacements than it helped because they were so insufferable. I don't think I could ever feel that negatively about Grant, Bob, and Greg because they weren't as insufferable. I'm sure they had their moments and engaged in a lot of infighting/sniping, but they didn't light cash money on fire for larfs.

Part of the problem with Warehouse is that it’s just as poorly produced as Don’t Tell A Soul (though in a far different manner), but there’s no unreleased/“better” mix of Warehouse in anyone’s archives or kitchen cabinets. It came out sounding exactly like they wanted it to sound.

Yeah, I mean, when you hit Warehouse the issue is they wanted the album to sound like that (and fwiw I think it sounds great). I came to HD after hearing Sugar, and was frustrated at first that the drums on albums like Warehouse were less about the driving, bombastic force-of-rock playing of Malcolm Travis - but as time's worn on I've appreciated how Grant was after something different, almost a melodic way of playing the drums, rather than pounding away and delivering the dynamic payoffs. The reverb on the drums is totally an era-appropriate thing, I guess, and I dig it now.

I never really had a problem with the way my Husker CDs/cassettes sounded, tbh. I do find it telling that the major label albums that the band produced themselves sound worse (or sometimes more dated) than Flip Your Wig (which the band also produced). I have a feeling if I/we got what we wanted it would be a "Raw Power" situation. That is, we'd end up with two less than satisfying outcomes, the thin/disappointing mixes we have now or a bottom-heavy distracting remix. We rarely get true remixes of this kind of thing, though. Typically it's just remastering, which can help bring volumes etc. up to modern standards (like the REM, Replacements albums), but that's imo not often as night-and-day incredible as, for example, those definitive Bowie/Costello reissues of the Ryko era.

An issue is that Everything Falls Apart and Metal Circus sound better than all the acclaimed stuff that makes up 90% of conversation on this topic.

I get that the underwater, snow-flurry blur that is New Day Rising is an interesting deliberate aesthetic choice but I’m baffled with the approach to Warehouse, if indeed that was what they were after; all that biscuit tin snare and thin sound is just jarring for what is their most conventional pop-rock album, especially with Warners money behind it.

I think there’s a case that it doesn’t really help their legacy long term that the more approachable their music became, the worse the albums sounded (or at best, levelled off without much improvement). I do think that the Warners era was a missed opportunity, even beyond what we already know about the era

Trouble Boys did more to ruin my ability to enjoy the Replacements than it helped because they were so insufferable. I don't think I could ever feel that negatively about Grant, Bob, and Greg because they weren't as insufferable. I'm sure they had their moments and engaged in a lot of infighting/sniping, but they didn't light cash money on fire for larfs.

Not until they very end, and even then it mostly happened in private, and not in person.