Oh my gosh, DeRogatis Hates the 80s

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Amidst the stunning stupidity contained here, how can someone say the 80s are "back in a big way" if you spend the next couple sentences saying how the 80s resurgence is "nothing new"...? Anyways:

I hate the '80s

March 10, 2005

BY JIM DEROGATIS
POP MUSIC CRITIC

Take a look at the calendar of upcoming concerts and you'll see names like Motley Crüe, Duran Duran, Def Leppard, Bryan Adams, Tesla, Erasure, Billy Idol, the Psychedelic Furs and, of course, the much-anticipated return of U2.

You're forgiven for wondering for a moment whether it's 1985, but you haven't spent the last two decades in a Rip Van Winkle slumber: The '80s are back in a big way.

Eighties nostalgia is nothing new; we can trace its roots to 1998, when a John Hughes-soundtrack-obsessed Adam Sandler starred in "The Wedding Singer." Also, VH1 has been filling its schedule with musical flashbacks such as "Big '80s" and "I Love the '80s" for nearly a decade now.

Every era in the history of popular music has its resurgence as fans experience the inevitable midlife crisis and yearn to revisit the "glory days" of their youth. There are indeed '80s sounds worth recalling, including the groundbreaking work of indie-rock bands that paved the way for the alternative explosion of the '90s, and the pioneering music made by early hip-hop innovators.

But the '80s music that is most often celebrated in the mainstream 20 years on -- and which is being re-sold now with the most gusto -- tends to be the very worst. In fact, an argument can be made that the decade was the most god-awful in rock history. With that in mind, and in keeping with the style of VH1's ubiquitous countdowns, I offer:

The Top Eight Reasons Why the '80s Sucked

1. Over-production
You can instantly date a record from the '80s by the sonic values that dominated the charts, ranging from big to bigger to absurdly humongous. Any hint of subtlety went out the window as drums thundered, singers wailed, and guitars and keyboards created walls of sound that dwarfed Phil Spector's, even in the work of artists who should have known better - witness Bruce Springsteen's epic 1984 album, "Born in the U.S.A."

In the way that Donald Trump's skyscrapers compared to the buildings of Frank Lloyd Wright, these productions were gaudy, phony and thoroughly lacking in artistry, but they were necessary to convey the favorite dynamic of '80s music, which was ...

2. Bombast
From the endless crescendos of '80s hair-metal bands like Motley Crue and Tesla to the reach-for-the-stars posturing of synth-pop acts like Tears for Fears (who have reunited for a tour and a new album), the favorite mode of expression was to shout, shout, let it all out. What was there to shout about? Well, it hardly seemed to matter to many hitmakers, and that leads to our next problem ...

3. The dearth of social conscience
The '80s were a turbulent and troubling decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Underground acts in many genres railed against the political policies of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, and they sounded the alarm about social crises such as AIDS. But in the pop mainstream, it was all "don't worry, be happy," with nary a hint that there was anything more substantial to sing about, and with little conscience about pandering to things like ...

4. Sexism
From Motley Crue's "Girls, Girls, Girls" world of slutty strippers to Madonna's higher-priced "Material Girl" courtesan, women often were portrayed in the '80s as one more commodity for sale to the highest bidder. It was as if the feminist strides of the '60s and '70s had never happened, and women who didn't fit the airbrushed Playboy ideal were vanquished, even in their own videos - Anne Wilson of Heart barely appeared in her own band's clips after she gained some weight and the group was remade as bombastic '80s balladeers.

5. The advent of digital synthesizers
6. The dominance of early drum machines
Correlatives to the note about production values above, the '80s gave us some of the most pathetic instrumental sounds in musical history. Where the analog synthesizers and the earliest drum machines of the '60s and '70s were intriguing new instruments in their own rights, the new digital instruments tried to electronically "improve" upon acoustic keyboards and drums but wound up sounding more artificial and obnoxious.

You know what I'm talking about: the fake "breathy" strings sound of a Yamaha DX-7 keyboard and the "army of handclaps" snares of a Linn drum machine. These sounds were tired five minutes after they were invented, but they appeared absolutely everywhere throughout the '80s, proving to be almost as silly as our next factor ...

7. The fashions
I'm no expert here, but just look at the moussed-up hairdos a la A Flock of Seagulls, the legwarmers and slouch-shouldered tops that appeared in the wake of "Flashdance," the kerchiefs and eyeliner for men favored by the hair-metal bands - have there ever been more ridiculous looks? And the culprit we have to blame for the popularity of these and other fashion faux pas was, needless to say...

8. MTV
Image has always been important in pop music, but the video explosion ushered in by the birth of music television - and the trumpeting of style over everything else, especially musical substance - ultimately may have been the most detrimental influence on '80s music. Take, for example, Duran Duran: People always say they remember the videos, not the songs; the lighter-than-air synth-pop confections were mere afterthoughts. But if that's the case, why bother to see your now-middle-aged heroes in concert?

The answer is that the now-middle-aged fans want to relive the past in the presence of their peer group - which is hard to do in front of the TV - while their younger offspring want to see what they missed. On her current tour, Ashlee Simpson makes a big deal out of performing a medley of "three great artists from the '80s" - Madonna, Blondie and the Pretenders - all of whom hit the charts well before most of her fans were born.

Whether they're trying to turn back the hands of time or experience some era long before they were born, the saddest aspect of all these people partying like it's 1985 is that they're missing so much great music in the present.

But we may finally be moving on soon. Even VH1 programming exec Michael Hirschorn admitted, "The early '80s are sort of getting long in the tooth."

What comes next? Why, the '90s revival, of course: Rhino Records has an alternative-era box set coming soon, and VH1 has already been airing "I Love the '90s" for several months. Out with the leg warmers, back with the flannel shirts.

― wowie, Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:24 (twenty years ago)

1. Over-production
2. Bombast
3. The dearth of social conscience
4. Sexism
5. The advent of digital synthesizers
6. The dominance of early drum machines
7. The fashions
8. MTV

The eight commandments of yawn.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

The dearth of social conscience?
Live Aid? We Are The World? Artists Against Apartheid? et al.
And I like them early drum machines.

― BanjoMania (Brilhante), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:33 (twenty years ago)

Sounds like someone didn't get any pussy in the 80s.

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:34 (twenty years ago)

Eighties nostalgia is nothing new; we can trace its roots to 1998, when a John Hughes-soundtrack-obsessed Adam Sandler starred in "The Wedding Singer."

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

The '80s were a turbulent and troubling decade as the rich got richer and the poor hung on for dear life. Underground acts in many genres railed against the political policies of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, and they sounded the alarm about social crises such as AIDS. But in the pop mainstream, it was all "don't worry, be happy," with nary a hint that there was anything more substantial to sing about, and with little conscience about pandering to things like ...

Never mind Live Aid and We Are the World, what about Phil Collins? Or is he an underground act?

xxxpost

― Huk-L, Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:35 (twenty years ago)

And why do people hate on Bobby McFerrin? It's not like he's evil. He's nice.

― Huk-L, Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:37 (twenty years ago)

He did more with his armpits then you ever did with yours

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:39 (twenty years ago)

Eighties nostalgia is nothing new; we can trace its roots to New Years Day 1990, when the new decade officially began. Don't tell me that, though, 'cause I want to talk about true art like underground music and Pogs.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

The sexism part is baffling. Hello, hip-hop anyone? Britney/Lohan/Simpson/Beyonce?

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:41 (twenty years ago)

But in the pop mainstream, it was all "don't worry, be happy,"

Compared to now, when so many of today's hitmakers constantly rail against social injustice.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

LET IT BLURT, BABY

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:42 (twenty years ago)

I think this writer is perhaps a little simple.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:43 (twenty years ago)

I love the part about how he never heard of Public Enemy and Bruce Springsteen. That was great!

― xhuxk, Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, the sexism one is weird. I'm not sure that any of the things he critiques are really unique to the 1980s: it should just be called "top 8 things I hate about music."

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:44 (twenty years ago)

I SUPPORT THE DIONYSIAN SPIRIT, YES I DO

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:45 (twenty years ago)

Oh my gosh, DeRogatis Hates the 808s.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:48 (twenty years ago)

"The advent of digital synthesizers!!!"

http://i.timeinc.net/Life/classicpictures/elvis/screaming.jpg

― Gear! (can Jung shill it, Mu?) (Gear!), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

I'm so happy my images are off.

― David R. (popshots75`), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:49 (twenty years ago)

WHO NEEDS A LINN WHEN JIMMY D CAN DROP THE BOOM SHAKALAKA!?!?!

http://www.jimdero.com/General/Jim-Drums-Hideout.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:51 (twenty years ago)

I just realized that the only time i EVER read anything by DeRogatis is on ILM. Um, thanks?

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:52 (twenty years ago)

But he's using a Dr. Sound sampler!

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

SCOTT SEWARD, GET ONE MILK IT!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:53 (twenty years ago)

In the way that Donald Trump's skyscrapers compared to the buildings of Frank Lloyd Wright

In the way that DeRo's writing compares to Xgau's...

― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://users.rcn.com/cocopug/assets/images/max2.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://users.rcn.com/cocopug/assets/images/max2.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://users.rcn.com/cocopug/assets/images/max2.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

― M.A.S.K. (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:54 (twenty years ago)

I choose the 80s

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

i did have a good time on that one thread about the book that he edited. that was fun. so, thanks for that!

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

kix was known to cavort w/ spandex-clad bimbos -- whilst themselves being clad in spandex w/ resplendent mullets.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:55 (twenty years ago)

Aside from the ad monienm idiocy of this, you'd think he could be bothered to check out some facts:

"the fake "breathy" strings sound of a Yamaha DX-7 keyboard"

DX-7's are famed for just the opposite. The string sound is thin, reedy, the bass way 'digital' (way defined, clicky, heavy controlled low end) etc

he's thinking the first Korg and Roland wokstations synths

But like his brain, he's averse to work

Anyway, bombast and overproduction are my fave things in music and intrinsic to the r n r mythos. Phil Specter much?

― ianinbrooklyn, Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

In the way that Donald Trump's skyscrapers compared to the buildings of Frank Lloyd Wright

perhaps it should be noted that donald trump is not an architect.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:58 (twenty years ago)

1. Over-production
2. Bombast
3. The dearth of social conscience
4. Sexism
5. The advent of digital synthesizers
6. The dominance of early drum machines
7. The fashions
8. MTV

this list, sans 5,6 & 8, could be describing ANY time period.

― maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Thursday, 10 March 2005 19:59 (twenty years ago)

i shudder to think of which 80s indie groups derogatis thinks are "groundbreaking."

why do we pay any mind to this stupid fat fuck any more?!?

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:01 (twenty years ago)

tho that donald trump:frank lloyd wright thing is kinda funny since the donald is building the new sun-times tower.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:02 (twenty years ago)

Stencil, you just made me snort-laugh. hawhawhawhaw

― Je4nne ƒury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:04 (twenty years ago)

1. Over-production
2. Bombast
3. The dearth of social conscience
4. Sexism
5. The advent of digital synthesizers
6. The dominance of early drum machines
7. The fashions
8. MTV
this list, sans 5,6 & 8, could be describing ANY time period.

-- maria tessa sciarrino (mari...), March 10th, 2005.

maria beat me to this.

― righteousmaelstrom, Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

And even then you could make some adjustments. "Now they're making this thing called a player-piano -- musical creativity will DIE! And this radio nonsense, don't get me started!"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:32 (twenty years ago)

Now they're making this thing called a player-piano -- musical creativity will DIE!

actually that sorta sums up William Gaddis's Agape, Agape, but it works and is funny.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:37 (twenty years ago)

Well at least we now know finally who will eventually replace Andy Rooney.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:38 (twenty years ago)

maria beat me to this.

I beat you both to it earlier!

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

Ned, William Gaddis is dead.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:42 (twenty years ago)

jim derogatis is clueless hack shocker.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

Someone bring this up next time ILM is criticized for using too many corny strawmen. I mean, this is like official footnote-link of all time for corny rockist fuxxx.

― djdee (djdee2005), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:43 (twenty years ago)

jim derogatis is clueless hack shocker.

I certainly wouldn't mind if people just ignored his ass. That said, if someone bothers to post a piece of his, I'm afraid I have no choice but to do this.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

why does anyone let this man write about anything, let alone music?

― latebloomer: correspondingly more exaggerated mixing is a scarifying error. (lat, Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

Does he know what pop music is? He writes about it for a living. Seriously.

Stuff like this would get turned in when I edited the music page of my high school newspaper. No, exactly the same. It's not like he can write any better than them... it was exactly the same. I in all seriousness cannot believe he is a professional writer.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Ned, William Gaddis is dead.

Erm, I was talking about DeRo?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

(Admittedly the transition was unclear.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:50 (twenty years ago)

I was thinking that this article beared a striking resemblance to something I wrote for my high school newspaper.

I shudder at the thought.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:52 (twenty years ago)

jim derogatis, nick hornby and alexis petridis should start a rock band called "received wisdom".

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

fuckin a!

thats the name of the album

― latebloomer: correspondingly more exaggerated mixing is a scarifying error. (lat, Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:01 (twenty years ago)

i think i need to learn to be more zen about mr. derogatis.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:02 (twenty years ago)

de regotis isn't exactly a guy who engenders enlightenment on any level

― latebloomer: correspondingly more exaggerated mixing is a scarifying error. (lat, Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:03 (twenty years ago)

first album surely = "more like crap music!"

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:04 (twenty years ago)

you know how those buddhist guys spend hours staring at a decomposing body to appreciate the evanescence of life or something? i think maybe reading derogatis could have the same effect. and it's more readily accessible than a decomposing body.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:05 (twenty years ago)

5. The advent of digital synthesizers

personally, i have a hard time believing that derogatis has much love for analog synths.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:06 (twenty years ago)

This would make a great back cover blurb!

Praise for Let it Blurt:

"it's more readily accessible than a decomposing body." - Amateurist

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:13 (twenty years ago)

Some creepy implications about amst re: bangs, there

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:15 (twenty years ago)

Jesus, this is like chum in the ILM water. If we didn't have DeRogatis we'd have to invent him. He's like a living straw man. In re: the social conscience stuff, never mind Live Aid, how can make that assertion three paragraphs after mentioning "Born in the U.S.A."? Or is he another of these guys who's never actually listened to the lyrics?

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

"the way it is" to thread
"land of confusion" to thread
"dirty laundry" to thread
"the message" to thread
"rain on the scarecrow" to thread

actually, pop music in the 80s was probably more "socially conscious" than it is now...come to think

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:19 (twenty years ago)

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

I grew up in the 1980s
In a four-bedroom house my family, my grandma
Three or four aunties
Uncles and brothers in and out of prison daily
At certain times when there was no heat
We stay under cover
There was life like you never seen
Daddy taking extra people in
Come dinner time it was tipping 18
Boil a big pot of water on the stove to take a bath
Rub my face with olive oil, all my mates used to laugh

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

I also love how "bombast" is presented as a negative in and of itself. Beethoven and Wagner to thread.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

he's into the nineties, so maybe he just means that choruses are supposed to be loud but verses should be quiet

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

the 1980s beats the 1880s.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

Gilbert and Sullivan were pretty good.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:29 (twenty years ago)

how is it creepy "re: bangs"? i didn't mention bangs.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

let it blurt is about bangs, duh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Jim D can often be counted on to miss the point. The cliches and lazy thinking (my favorites are "paved the way" and "reach-for-the-stars") are as received and secondhand as, um, the Ex Lion Tamers?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

oh i know, i just wasn't thinking about that book when i made my comment. i was thinking about dopey articles in the sun-times like the one on this thread.

i sort of forget that bangs existed and that derogatis wrote a book about him. it just doesn't hold a smidgen of interest for me.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

that was to hstencil.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

my favorite is "Rip Van Winkle slumber"

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

bangs's body has been decomposing since what, 1981, 1982?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

i thought it was preserved in derogatis's office, like jeremy bentham at oxford or wherever.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

no, that smell is siskel in ebert's office. and, uh, dero himself.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

mummied bentham is in london d00d

except his head which wz stolen and replaced with a wax imitation

JUST LIKE DERO!! haha i kill me

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

he looks sweet in that pic btw

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

sweet as in 'nice guy' or sweet as in 'if you pricked his cheek with a pin, honey might ooze out'?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

sweet as in i'd hit it

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

hahaha

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 10 March 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

Man, you people really hate on poor DeRo. If I see him at SXSW next week, do you want me to give him a wedgie or something?

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:04 (twenty years ago)

mummied bentham is in london d00d
except his head which wz stolen and replaced with a wax imitation

ihttp://www.engr.uiuc.edu/international-StudentExperience/RussiaExperience/Alexander_Russia_SU02/Russia/Pictures/lenin.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:05 (twenty years ago)

dero don't wear underwear dude

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/B/bodies/images/pop2.jpg

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:06 (twenty years ago)

dero don't wear underwear dude

the dionysian spirit of bangs lives on!!!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:09 (twenty years ago)

in his pants!!!

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

Man, you people really hate on poor DeRo

yeah, my ire is always tempered with a vague pity. but then--read his actual columns! the evidence is right before your eyes!

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:14 (twenty years ago)

he reminds me of young people who annoy me and old people who annoy me at the same time

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:17 (twenty years ago)

but he's been coasting. It's not like he's reaching greater and greater degrees of absurdity. We should wait for him to do something BIG, like declare rock is back.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:18 (twenty years ago)

the 1980s beats the 1880s.

The hell you say! Take that back and step off the money, please:

1880: Antonin Dvorak's 1st Symphony.
1880: Richard Strauss, age 16, wins acclaim with Symphony in D Minor.
1881: Brahms completes the 2nd Piano Concerto.
1881: Bell and Tainter's graphophone has better sound than Edison phonograph.
1881: Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D.
1882: Wagner's final opera, Parsifal.
1883: Brahms' 3rd Symphony.
1883: After many rejections, Anton Bruckner succeeds with 7th Symphony.
1883: Edison stumbles onto "Edison effect"; later, basis of broadcast tubes.
1883: Thomas Edison invents the light bulb, a significant aid to communication.
1884: In Germany, Paul Nipkow's scanning disc, early version of television.
1885: Brahms' 4th Symphony.
1885: Tainter and Bell "graphaphone" uses wax-coated cylinders for better sound.
1885: Franz Liszt completes 19 Hungarian Rhapsodies.
1885: Tchaikovsky's Manfred symphony.1886: Sapphire stylus improve sound.
1886: Berne Convention sets up international copyright agreements.
1887: Berliner gets music from a flat "gramophone" disc stamped out by machine.
1888: Cesar Franck composes the Symphony in D Minor.
1889: Eleven years after getting patent, Edison mass produces a phonograph doll.
1888: Considered an office machine, the phonograph is franchised in territories.
1888: Richard Strauss' tone poem, Don Juan.
1888: Heinrich Hertz proves that radio waves exist.
1888: Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony.
1888: Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov's tuneful symphonic suite, Scheherazade.
1888: Edison's phonograph is manufactured for sale to the public.
1888: Oberlin Smith sets forth theory of magnetic recording.
1889: Coin-operated phonographs are placed in bars, arcades, the first jukeboxes.
1889: Richard Strauss' tone poem, Death and Transfiguration.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:19 (twenty years ago)

what does this mean: "After many rejections, Anton Bruckner succeeds with 7th Symphony"

― mark s (mark s), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:20 (twenty years ago)

Oh, but rock IS back! At least it will be by next week. That's the story that always comes out of SXSW, isn't it? (And I'm as guilty of being swept away by too much BBQ and beer as any other writer.)

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:21 (twenty years ago)

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

one thing i don't understand. how can someone who hates the 80s so much have such an angular haircut?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

do goatees cancel out angular haircuts?

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

angular haircut!

― mark p (Mark P), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

It is the duty of old people to annoy young people.

― Harry Klam, Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

Does this mean his haircut uses intervals of a fourth? ;-)

― djdee (djdee2005), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:24 (twenty years ago)

what does this mean: "After many rejections, Anton Bruckner succeeds with 7th Symphony"

Mr. Peabody would say: "Symphonies 1 through 6."

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:29 (twenty years ago)

Being a fashion progressive, I usually have my barber cut my hair while listening to something in 13/4 time.

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

Way x-post The Yamaha Dx-7 was way weird. it's still Brian Eno's synth of choice, and that man certainly knows his way around analog synths.

What DeRo probably meant (or maybe not) was the overreliance on digital pre-sets, which instantly dates any act that uses them.

Other than that: Tears for Fears? Synth Pop? That's a new one, especially from a prog fan like DeRogatis. Crappy early drum machines? See: Peter Gabriel's III, one of DeRo's favorite albums. Bombast? Perfected in the '70s. Over-production? Dude, "Total Eclipse of the Heart," as big as it sounds, wouldn't pass for a demo in today's world. Also, "Born in the USA" sounds way thinner than "Born to Run." And so on.

Anyway, ABC's first album hits most of his points dead on, and that album is awesome, so there!!!

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

Wow, it took a long time for someone to use the R-word.

Can we have an ILX version of Godwin's law:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/590000/images/_593417_hitler150.jpg

― M.A.S.K. (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:52 (twenty years ago)

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:53 (twenty years ago)

We're all the Nazi now.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:54 (twenty years ago)

what does this mean: "After many rejections, Anton Bruckner succeeds with 7th Symphony"

Dear Mr. Bruckner,

We appreciate your submission, but we regret to inform you that we were unable to accept your 7th Symphony at this time. We wish you the best of luck in your future musical endeavors.

Sincerely,

The Cultural Gatekeepers

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:55 (twenty years ago)

That's surely not his actual hair, right? It looks...not photoshopped, but like MSPAINTEDM.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:02 (twenty years ago)

*cue midi file of "Mama We're All Crazee Now"*

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:08 (twenty years ago)

"I'll have the Carlos D."

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:09 (twenty years ago)

This thread made me smile.

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Thursday, 10 March 2005 23:23 (twenty years ago)

On her current tour, Ashlee Simpson makes a big deal out of performing a medley of "three great artists from the '80s" - Madonna, Blondie and the Pretenders

Somehow, this horrifies me more than anything else he wrote in that ridiculous column.

― ffirehorse (firehorse), Friday, 11 March 2005 00:15 (twenty years ago)

Is one (or more than one) of those artists supposed to be bad?

― polyphonic (polyphonic), Friday, 11 March 2005 00:16 (twenty years ago)

the saddest aspect of all these people partying like it's 1985 is that they're missing so much great music in the present.

Do I even want to know what "great music" he means? (Wilco?)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:14 (twenty years ago)

And who's "they"? And what makes "them" think they're not partying to Franz Ferdinand or the Faint or some shit?

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:15 (twenty years ago)

This is fun! Who else can we make fun of? Chuck Eddie, or you all work for him?

― Lord Daffodil (Ian Christe), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:35 (twenty years ago)

At least Chuck Eddy has opinions of his own!

― latebloomer: correspondingly more exaggerated mixing is a scarifying error. (lat, Friday, 11 March 2005 01:38 (twenty years ago)

And can spell his name right!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:39 (twenty years ago)

I actually did used to work for Jim Derogatis, and he was a friendly and helpful editor, but I never realized his name was the Greek root of "derogatory".

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 11 March 2005 01:54 (twenty years ago)

I take back anything I mightve ever said about ILM, this thread is GREAT.

― Trayce (trayce), Friday, 11 March 2005 02:24 (twenty years ago)

See, Trayce, we are good and wonderful. ;-)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 11 March 2005 02:27 (twenty years ago)

1889: Eleven years after getting patent, Edison mass produces a phonograph doll.

Come fucking on!

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Friday, 11 March 2005 02:36 (twenty years ago)

Great-great-grandmother of the Hello Kitty mp3 player.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 11 March 2005 02:42 (twenty years ago)

thomas edison was one twee motherfucker

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 11 March 2005 06:09 (twenty years ago)

"1985: Austrian rock singer Falco records 'Rock Me Amadeus!'"

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Friday, 11 March 2005 15:41 (twenty years ago)

Think about it -- What would you change if you were writing a parody of rockist received wisdom? Not a thing. This piece belongs on the the ILM FAQ.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 11 March 2005 15:59 (twenty years ago)

He doesn't really seem to *get* the Rip Van Winkle fable, either.

― Mike Dixn (Mike Dixon), Friday, 11 March 2005 16:23 (twenty years ago)

I enjoyed "Let It Blurt" as a semi-successful attempt to de-mythologize Lester Bangs, but this is so wide of the mark that reads like an Onion piece. Different eras of popular music have noticeably different production styles? Whodathunkit?

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 11 March 2005 18:55 (twenty years ago)

yeah this is definitely dero's jackie harvey moment (well, one of many)

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

What do you expect from the guy? He just likes to trash things in print. There's a lot the guy likes about the 80's, a lot he's PRAISED in print - indie bands like the Replacements, R.E.M., Husker Du, etc., socially conscious mainstream performers like Tracy Chapman, and early hip-hop, which he always brings up when trashing mainstream hip-hop in the mid-90's and beyond - but he'll conveniently overlook or downplay these things to a write a more polarizing (and for him, more entertaining) article.

On the other hand, a lot of those things did suck. "We Are The World" and "Do They Know It's Christmas?" proves him wrong about social conscience, but there weren't good music.

― ...., Saturday, 12 March 2005 20:49 (twenty years ago)

Well, I am a bigtime 80s fan, but I agree with a lot of his critizism of the late 80s, because that's basically the part of the 80s he critizises. The world does not need a hair metal revival!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 12 March 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

The world does not need a hair metal revival!

Strictly speaking, the world doesn't need most of the recorded music in existence. but guess what? Lots of people enjoyed hair metal back in the day, and are more than happy to plunk their money down to see Vince Neil & Co. recreate their high school soundtrack, and who's to say that they shouldn't? The bombast and OTT-ness of a lot of 80s music is what makes it fun.

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

angular haircut!
Great name for a new wave band. With a drum machine and Yamaha DX-7.

The early 80s mainstream pop still had funk and disco influences, the late 80s mainstream pop mostly didn't, hence why the late 80s mainstream pop wasn't as much fun to listen to.
Early 80s had more rhythm.

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

ONE MORE TIME
http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

ONE MORE TIME

― miccio (miccio), Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

Trashing or praising decades is arbitrary and lazy. No idiot ever says, "I hate the 70's" or "I'm a fan of '60s music." What on earth do both these phrases mean??

― Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

I agree with Lord Custos. You have to make that distinction between early and late 80s pop, because I was a big fan of the early stuff and despised lots of the later. I think that 1985 might be the cut-off.

― Sara Sherr, Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:58 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, the 80s revival is over. The Game, Kaiser Chiefs = 90s revival in effect.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 12 March 2005 21:59 (twenty years ago)

No idiot ever says, "I hate the 70's" or "I'm a fan of '60s music."

I've heard shit like that since I was small!

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 March 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

If there is one thing the world does not need, a 90s revival is it. Let the 90s rest in peace. Forever!

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 12 March 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

Rhythm based music of the early 80s (Imagination, Shalamar, ABC, most synthpop) had more melody than rhythm based music of the late 80s (hip-hop, house, Jam/Lewis), which is why the early 80s were better.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 12 March 2005 22:33 (twenty years ago)

I can easily name you a truckload of danceable late-80s pop that lacks neither rhythm nor melody, so I don't understand these blanket statements of yours.

I'm not flaming you, Geir, but I just don't get the need to declare "Oh my God! Don't revive that!", as if a Motley Crue reunion tour is a disaster on the level of global warming or sweatshop labour (hence my annoyance at this DeRogatis piece).
I'm old enough to remember hair metal from the first time around, and while most of it wasn't my thing, I have nothing against the throngs of people for whom it was. I think there's loads of good music to be found in any era, and to claim otherwise is just plain lazy.

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Sunday, 13 March 2005 01:27 (twenty years ago)

Does this sound to anyone like the MOST BORING shit from the 80s to like?

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:21 (twenty years ago)

get one midwestern youth, preppie

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:45 (twenty years ago)

new jersey's the midwest?

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:53 (twenty years ago)

get one atlas, groupie

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:53 (twenty years ago)

dero's from jersey? Explains everything! Jersey means trouble.

sorry I just defensively blame my own youth for thinking all REM, Husker and the Mats were at one time the bee's knees

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 13 March 2005 02:58 (twenty years ago)

The Replacements suck!

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

no they don't!

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

FAVREAU'S WORST FILM!

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:01 (twenty years ago)

bob stinson was pretty noise, dude

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:02 (twenty years ago)

bob stinson's just another word for nothing left to lose!

― j blount (papa la bas), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:03 (twenty years ago)

So it's not okay to like Husker Du and Jody Watley? 'Cause God forgive me, but I do.

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:04 (twenty years ago)

of course it is! i haven't heard any jody watley since my alt-youth though and I wasn't paying attention back then

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

no they don't!
WRONG!!!!

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:12 (twenty years ago)

The Linn Drum was the best thing about the 80's not the worst! I had the pleasure of seeing one of the original 8 bit Linns in near perfect condition in a studio recently. The engineer said that it has never sounded better and he uses it all the time - it blows everyone's minds, they have to use it once they hear it. You can keep your 909, give me the Linn Drum any day.

― moley, Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:18 (twenty years ago)

I like Univox rhythm machines.

― green uno skip card (ex machina), Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:30 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sonicstate.com/articles/rogerlinn/linndrum.jpg

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:QIBCGuT5744J:www.ultra-pop.org/images/band/human-l2.jpg

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:fEEPQFk1dQUJ:www.mic.gr/dbimages/2229_1.JPG

― moley, Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:36 (twenty years ago)

http://images.google.com.au/images?q=tbn:exA1T0qdlRgJ:www.geocities.com/grand_central_insanity/heaven17.jpg

― moley, Sunday, 13 March 2005 03:39 (twenty years ago)

Christ, you'd think Jon Williams would like "Fuck School" and "Dope Smoking Moron" and "Gary's Got a Boner". You think you know* a person.

*by "know" I mean "draw extremely shallow conclusions based on the series of .jpg-spam and occasional repetitious Franz Ferdinand fangirl mockery a person posts"

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Sunday, 13 March 2005 05:43 (twenty years ago)

In about 5-10 years, Jim will discover the net and downloading. And here's a fearless prediction: he'll write about how file-sharing is ruining music and recall how great the CD-era 80s were!

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Sunday, 13 March 2005 14:08 (twenty years ago)

>The early 80s mainstream pop still had funk and disco influences, the late 80s mainstream pop mostly didn't, hence why the late 80s mainstream pop wasn't as much fun to listen to.<

get one latin freestyle

― olde english d, Sunday, 13 March 2005 20:48 (twenty years ago)

also get one g'n'r etc.

― olde english d, Sunday, 13 March 2005 20:59 (twenty years ago)

it's hopeless, folks! derogatis has had ample opportunity to appreciate all this stuff, and he's obviously denied himself the pleasure due to some combination of dullness and obstinacy. it's all over for him.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Sunday, 13 March 2005 21:10 (twenty years ago)

...and hey, wasn't the Linn drum a product of the '70s anyways?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Sunday, 13 March 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

his hatred of the 80s TOTALLY explains the feud w/ ryan adams. it's like a genetic predisposition toward mutual loathing. which is kind of sad.

― Ozewayo (ozewayo), Sunday, 13 March 2005 23:26 (twenty years ago)

I hate Jim Derogatis

March 13, 2005

BY RAINBOW BUM
CRITIC OF POP MUSIC CRITIC

Take a look at that lame "I hate the 80's" music column by obnoxious yet cuddly hack writer Jim Derogatis, and you'll see that he names many talented musicians, but, of course, doesn't comprehend why their music is still listened to and loved.

You're forgiven for wondering for a moment whether his column was a joke, but you haven't spent the last two decades pretending to like crappy music because it was fashionable: Jim Derogatis is a hack in a big way.

Jim's cranky, cliched whining is nothing new; we can trace its roots to when he watched the John Hughes-soundtrack-obsessed Adam Sandler film, "The Wedding Singer," and said "God I hate this fake comedy crap. Why can't we have a serious, dignified, uplifting social drama based on the song 'fast car' by Tracy Chapman instead?" Also, VH1 has been annoying him with musical flashbacks such as "Big '80s" and "I Love the '80s" for nearly a decade now, and making him wish there was something better and more socially relevant on TV, or at least something for really smart music critics like him.

Every era in the history of popular music has haters like Jim, as he experiences his inevitable midlife crisis, and yearns to revisit his "glory days" of high school, when he was considered "hip" and respected by his clique of friends, because his cool dad let them hang out in the basement and listen to his record collection, and maybe even look at his souveniers from Woodstock. There are indeed good times from Jim's high school worth recalling, including the groundbreaking work of that ripped-jeans wearing, guitar-playing guy who paved the way for actually making him think of maybe starting a band himself, and the pioneering music made by that other guy he used to hang out with, who is actually a real professional musician now.

But the music that Jim really doesn't like that is celebrated in the mainstream 20 years on -- and which is being re-sold now with gusto, even though he hates it-- tends to be the music that he disdained because guys who had girlfriends, and dates, and stuff like that were into it. In fact, an argument can be made that this music was responsible for the most god-awful times in Jim's history of being a loser and not getting laid. With that in mind, and in keeping with the style of VH1's ubiquitous countdowns, I offer:

The Top Eight Reasons Why Jim Derogatis Sucks

1. Jim's over-cliched writing

You can instantly recognise a column from Jim, by the literary values that dominate his limited palette of expression, ranging from dumb to dumber to absurdly retarded. Any hint of subtlety goes out the window as Jim whines like a little girl, uses cliches like "Rip Van Winkle slumber", and creates harshly pruned, contextually-ignorant 1-sentance paragraphs that make the lowest-common-denominator writing of USA Today look like Shakespeare, even making his regular readers who should have known better say WTF? Witness his association of U2, Psychedelic Furs, and Bruce Springsteen among music with "no social conscience."

In the way that Jim Derogatis' awkward, jerky, arrythmic dancing compares to the architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright, his columns are phony and thoroughly lacking in artistry, but they are necessary to convey the favorite dynamic of his writing, which is ...

2. Jim's Bombast

From the endless sneering about "God, I hate fun", to the reach-for-the-stars posturing "why can't music be more relevant?", Jim's favorite mode of expression is to whine, whine, until it's bedtime. What was there to whine about? Well, it hardly seems to matter to people who don't pay attention to his opinions, and that leads to our next problem ...

3. The dearth of Jim's social life

The '80s were a turbulent and troubling decade as Jim got hornier and tried to get laid for dear life but didn't. Underground sex acts in many genres excited him, and they sounded the alarm about social crises such as AIDS which he wished he had to worry about. But in Jim's life, it was all "don't worry, you'll get a real girlfriend someday," with nary a hint that there was anything more substantial for him, and with little grounds to complain about things like ...

4. Jim's problem with Sexism

From Motley Crue's "Girls, Girls, Girls" world of slutty strippers to Madonna's higher-priced "Material Girl" courtesan, women often were portrayed as one more commodity for sale that Jim couldn't afford, so he wished they would act politically correct instead. It was as if the feminist strides of the '60s and '70s had never happened, and women who didn't fit Jim's ideal should be vanquished instead of expressing themselves, even in their own videos - Dale Bozzio of Missing Persons should have worn frumpy, sensible clothes and mousy hair in her own band's clips, instead of day-glo and neon makeup that looked awesome.

5. Jim's hate for the advent of digital synthesizers
6. Jim's hate for the dominance of early drum machines

Correlatives to the note about cliched writing above, Jim's column gives us some of the most pathetic complaints about sound in musical criticism history. Where the analog synthesizers and the earliest drum machines of the '60s and '70s were intriguing new instruments in their own rights, the new digital instruments were even cooler. They electronically "improved" upon the existing musical pallete of acoustic keyboards and drums by being completely different, more artificial and totally awesome.

You know what I'm talking about: the fake "breathy" strings sound of a Yamaha DX-7 keyboard and the "army of handclaps" snares of a Linn drum machine. These sounds made a tiny wedge of discerning musicians like John Foxx, Gary Numan and Thomas Dolby rush to get them and make totally amazing, innovative music five minutes after they were invented, but they appeared absolutely everywhere throughout the '80s, proving Jim's complaints about their lack of perceived worth to be almost as silly as our next factor ...

7. Jim's hate for fashions

I'm no expert here, but just look at the moussed-up hairdos a la A Flock of Seagulls, the legwarmers and slouch-shouldered tops that appeared in the wake of "Flashdance," the kerchiefs and eyeliner for men favored by the hair-metal bands, Dale Bozzio's neon makeup, even, good God, Steve Strange's neo-romantic clown outfits- have there ever been more ridiculous looks that made people stand out and look creative and alive? And the culprit we have to blame for Jim's hate of these and other fashion treats was, needless to say...

8. MTV

Image has always been important in pop music, but the video explosion ushered in by the birth of music television - and the trumpeting of style as an ENHANCEMENT to everything else, especially musical substance - ultimately may have been the most detrimental influence on Jim's taste in '80s music, because he has no style, in writing or anything else. Take, for example, Duran Duran: People always say they remember the videos, as making great songs even better; the lighter-than-air synth-pop confections could have been mere afterthoughts and they still would have been totally cool. But if that's the case, why does Jim hate to see your now-middle-aged and still talented heroes in concert?

The answer is that the now-middle-aged fans want to relive the past and experience great new music, in the presence of their peer group - which is hard to do in front of the TV - while their younger offspring want to see what they missed- but Jim can't participate, because he's just a pissy bitch with no friends or taste. On her current tour, Ashlee Simpson makes a big deal out of performing a medley of "three great artists from the '80s" - Madonna, Blondie and the Pretenders - all of whom hit the charts well before most of her fans were born- which is totally cool, because it introduces great classic artists to a new generation who may not know them. But, since Jim would rather hang out in a coffee shop trying to impress people because he writes music criticism, but nobody cares because they all write abstract poetry and shit like that, he is jealous of artists that people respect.

Whether they're trying to turn back the hands of time or experience some era long before they were born, the most fun aspect of all these people partying like it's 1985 is that they also enjoy great music in the present. However, Jim doesn't share their taste so he puts them down like a snob.

But we may finally be moving on soon. Even Jim's editor admitted, "Jim's complaints are sort of getting long in the tooth. We might have to let him go so he can go whine on some internet message board like other losers instead of getting printed for real."

What comes next? Why, Jim getting beat up by pissed off Blondie and Duran Duran fans, of course: their thriving fan clubs are already handing out sticks emblazoned with "I spanked Jim DeRogatis" slogans. Out with Jim's whining, in with his contrite apologies for being such a dick.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Sunday, 13 March 2005 23:44 (twenty years ago)

(In Jim's defense, I understand the story was written at the request of an editor. Now, the piece may still suck, and it does, but it's useful to keep in mind that, posturing aside, DeRo is still just a staff writer at the Sun-Times. So, in my mind the fault lies with the lame editor who, no doubt scanning the concert listings/other publications, assigned such a piece, followed by DeRo for not doing anything interesting with it.)

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 14 March 2005 02:00 (twenty years ago)

do you think the editor asked him to write something "about the 80s revival" or "about how the 80s 'sucked'"? if the former, he could have conceiveably done something interesting (although granted the piece on the "80s revival" in the NYT was pretty boring, if not nearly as offensively idiotic as jim's piece). if the latter then, well, that's a pretty strange editor.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 14 March 2005 02:11 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, the NYT '80s piece was weak. I'll take DeRogatis' over that for the entertainment value. I'd rather be baffled by cluelessness than just flat bored.

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 14 March 2005 02:40 (twenty years ago)

I really have no idea who Mr Derogatis is or what he writes, I just had fun making fun of it.

― -rainbow bum- (-rainbow bum-), Monday, 14 March 2005 05:19 (twenty years ago)

(also, it's a little weird to hear the Nuremberg defense trotted out on behalf of a rock critic)

― gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Monday, 14 March 2005 07:29 (twenty years ago)

I had the pleasure of seeing one of the original 8 bit Linns in near perfect condition in a studio recently. The engineer said that it has never sounded better and he uses it all the time ...

Is this literally true? Do they sound better with age? Or do you just mean that they sound great stacked up against whatever's around today?

― Rick Massimo (Rick Massimo), Monday, 14 March 2005 17:29 (twenty years ago)

his hatred of the 80s TOTALLY explains the feud w/ ryan adams. it's like a genetic predisposition toward mutual loathing. which is kind of sad.
Does DeRogatis leave rambling diatribes on Simon LeBon's answering machine? Inquiring minds want to know!

― Lord Custos Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Monday, 14 March 2005 17:52 (twenty years ago)

...and hey, wasn't the Linn drum a product of the '70s anyways?
-- Myonga Von Bontee

True, the first model was... but it only came into pop in a big way in about 1981. And after a long period of slumber the 303 arrived in style in 1986, hallelujah! What's to hate about the 303? Electropop, acid house, house and techno...The 80's were grate, mate!

― moley, Monday, 14 March 2005 20:28 (twenty years ago)

The Linn still sounds a lot cooler than the 303 though (of course, synths and sound modules with all kinds of built-in drum sounds have long since made drum machines obsolute anyway)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:36 (twenty years ago)

I had the pleasure of seeing one of the original 8 bit Linns in near perfect condition in a studio recently. The engineer said that it has never sounded better and he uses it all the time ...

Is this literally true? Do they sound better with age? Or do you just mean that they sound great stacked up against whatever's around today?

-- Rick Massimo

Haha Rick, I didn't hear the beast in action myself, I was going on what the guy told me... but I think what he meant was, they sound great stacked up against what's around today. For character and feel, I assume.

Also Geir, what you're saying is true enough, in fact - but samples aren't quite the same - I should know... the drums don't sound quite as solid... but that era of independent modules sequencing together is over, who has the patience for it? Well we all know someone who does, but they're outnumbered... So the 80's was the golden era for that. As a result, many of the classic records from that era have super solid drums, running off their own sequencer, giving the sonfgs a heavier, weightier sound in the rhythm section as compared to the drums of today. You cannot beat independent sequencing off the source module for the drums if you want solid beats.

― moley, Monday, 14 March 2005 20:41 (twenty years ago)

Separated at birth... Two old guys who pine for the "good old days" which really weren't all that better than any other days.

http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg
http://www.kare11.com/assetpool/images/0492011616_Keilor-250.jpg

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 14 March 2005 20:45 (twenty years ago)

As for the DX7 - well, fair comment, it was a chinzy beast if you stuck with the presets, but, on the other hand: Brian Eno. He did alright with it! Cos he programmed it! Have you heard 'The Shutov Assembly'?

Also, we need to recognise John Foxx for the electropop visionary he was in the 80's! No crtitique of the 80's can survive the Metamatic retort.

― moley, Monday, 14 March 2005 20:46 (twenty years ago)

I seem to recall the DX-7 being notoriously difficult to program, which is why most bands probably went with the presets (and Eno went with the programming: nerd!).

― Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:16 (twenty years ago)

Also Geir, what you're saying is true enough, in fact - but samples aren't quite the same

The Linn was based on samples. (And, mind you, I am not talking about loops)

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:18 (twenty years ago)

The main problem about DX7, and other late 80s digital synths, was all the bad samples they were based on. On a DX7, you would get brass that sounded neither like synth brass nor like real brass, i.e. you ended up with some sort of neither fish nor flesh that really didn't sound any nice at all. Plus you had a period for a few years where a synth was supposed to sound like anything but a synth. In the 90s, the warm synth sound returned as an option to base your music on, which means that at least the synth sounds got better again, when compared to the sour and badly sampled mock-strings, mock-brass, mock-bass and mock-guitars that tended to dominate late 80s electronic music.

Of course there were exceptions. Thomas Dolby, Prefab Sprout, Scritti Politti, Yello, Peter Gabriel, Frankie Goes To Hollywood and Art Of Noise did some great sonic stuff based on mainly those digital synths. Jarre's often overlooked "Zoolook" album may also be cited as an early example of excellent use of digital synths. But more often than not, late 80s synth based music sounds more dated today than does early 80s synth based music. Basically, the DX7 today sounds a lot more dated than older vintage analog synths do.

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:23 (twenty years ago)

I agree that the DX7 sounded nasty, but, uh, it wasn't sample-based. It used FM synthesis for its sounds.

― Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Monday, 14 March 2005 21:41 (twenty years ago)

The people respond!

― deej., Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:08 (twenty years ago)

Nice article, perfect description of how I view that era and how I feel about the one we're currently in. It's like a bad dream no one wants to wake up from because it's easier to stay asleep. Watch the plastic people on the plastic shows, listen to the plastic songs. It's a pop prefab world, and true talent and vision continue to be drowned in a sea of mediocrity.
I'm only 25, and I can't imagine how bad it may be in another decade. Maybe that's the price of a capitalistic society, quality is overshadowed by saturation, the incessant need for bigger sales and higher ratings essentially resulting in the dumbing-down of the country's media in the name of accessibility, but costing us our creativity and the subtle sudden ecstasy of momentary happiness that true art can elicit.

Jason Hein

KUNST und DUNKELHEIT Durch SOZIALISMUS FÜR IMMER!

("It's a POP POP PRE-FAB WORLD.. DOOT DOOT... YEAH!")

Mr. DeRogatis: I don't think I can read your columns anymore. It's not that I don't enjoy what you have to say, because I really do, it's just I can't stand the people who write in to you. People complain that you're an elitist snob and hate the music you recommend. You're a music critic -- isn't your job to be critical? I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world. I don't agree with some stuff you say, but I realize that you know more than I do musically and I respect your opinions.

Jake Marcet

jake get one spine

― donut debonair (donut), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

"I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world."
"I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world."
"I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world."
"I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world."
"I read the letters written to you and I just hate the world."

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Thursday, 24 March 2005 02:54 (twenty years ago)

sounds like one of eminem's third-person lyrics

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:00 (twenty years ago)

DeRogatis isn't right about EVERYTHING, but he's certainly a nice guy. I talked to him for a while at SXSW this year, and he's a candid, entertaining dude. The whining jealousy that pervades this thread is actually pretty pathetic.

― Joe Blower (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:04 (twenty years ago)

...the subtle sudden ecstasy of momentary happiness that true art can elicit.

My admittedly fragmentary research indicates that ecstasy is generally not subtle.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:06 (twenty years ago)

The whining jealousy that pervades this thread

oh, give me a break! he's a terrible writer and a terrible critic, full stop. the evidence is all over this and other threads. i think i speak for the vast majority of those who post here when i say i have absolutely no ambition whatsoever to become a "rock critic" or a journalist of any kind.

anyway, more hilariity from the DRG letters page:

I wouldn't pay 2 cents to buy 50 Cent's music!

James Catalano

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:09 (twenty years ago)

'The whining jealousy that pervades this thread is actually pretty pathetic. '

who the fuck is JEALOUS of jim derogatis?

― latebloomer: damn cheapskate satanists (latebloomer), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:09 (twenty years ago)

just because YOU can't grow a goatee...

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 24 March 2005 03:10 (twenty years ago)

(i'm glad you didnt go for the obvious fat joke)

― deej., Thursday, 24 March 2005 04:41 (twenty years ago)

I could grow an awesome fucking goatee. I believe in myself.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 24 March 2005 05:34 (twenty years ago)

KUNST und DUNKELHEIT Durch SOZIALISMUS FÜR IMMER!

("It's a POP POP PRE-FAB WORLD.. DOOT DOOT... YEAH!")

yeah, it looks like SOMEONE has been reading adorno ...

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 24 March 2005 05:53 (twenty years ago)

and, Garrison Keillor is way cooler than DeRo.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 24 March 2005 05:56 (twenty years ago)

"...and thats the news from Lake Rapbegone. Where all the women are sexpots, all the men are guitar gods, and all the album reviews are 'four stars out of five'..."

― Lord Keillor Omicron (Lord Custos Omicron), Thursday, 24 March 2005 06:26 (twenty years ago)

that would be so rad. home companion, bitchez....i've seen IT LIVE IN PERSON! my wife used to work for mpr and we got free tickets...they did a bunch of old skool Foley sound efx shit durin that Guy Whatshisfuck Male Detective skit.

A bluegrass virtuoso dedicated a song to Kirby Puckett!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Thursday, 24 March 2005 06:48 (twenty years ago)

I'm sure DeRo's a perfectly nice guy. I had a big argument a few weeks ago with someone who's friends with him about why I think he sucks, and I feel kinda bad about it now, them being friends and all. But it doesn't change the fact that I think he's a giant buffoon.

― jaymc (jaymc), Thursday, 24 March 2005 07:20 (twenty years ago)

i'm quite content mocking his prose, and leaving his personal habits alone.

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

The Lester Bangs bio is one of the worst books I have ever read. Complete trash. The author photo is just lagniappe.

― adam (adam), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:16 (twenty years ago)

ending the article with I don't agree with some stuff you say, but I realize that you know more than I do musically and I respect your opinions.

wow.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:31 (twenty years ago)

The jealousy in this thread IS apparent. And it's hilarious.

― Mr Deeds (Mr Deeds), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:34 (twenty years ago)

The trauma inducing collage of DeRo pictures was the hilarious part.

― Leon Bluth (Ex Leon), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

UH!
http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

DOUBLE UP!

UH!
http://images.suntimes.com/images4/columnists/derogatis.jpg

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

Argh! It will soon be Schiavo City for ilx.

― Leon Bluth (Ex Leon), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:43 (twenty years ago)

deeds show me one jealous post plz!

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

I would like to see ILX ignore Jim DeRogatis. If no Chi-towner read his shit and if nobody POSTED it, we'd all be happier people.

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:46 (twenty years ago)

ok I did not intended for it space out like that wtf

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:47 (twenty years ago)

I also didn't intend to write intended

― miccio (miccio), Thursday, 24 March 2005 21:48 (twenty years ago)

http://www.chicagoist.com/images/2004_09_superbowlshuffle.jpg

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Thursday, 24 March 2005 22:10 (twenty years ago)

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