My girlfriend succinctly puts the smack down on rock music

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

New York magazine this week has an article on The Bravery, labeling them "The Next Really Big Thing" or something along those lines. I remarked that this was a bit silly, since rock music itself is no longer the source of "next big things" in the grand scheme of music.

"White people need to come up with something else," she said.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 07:59 (twenty-one years ago)

No we don't

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:04 (twenty-one years ago)

PWNED

― provvoe, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Your bitch is tired

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Certainly something else than The Bravery.

― Hurting (Hurting), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:07 (twenty-one years ago)

The Bravery are just a poor man's Killers

― provvoe, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Sometimes I think bands like the Bravery exist merely to provide amusement for easily bored rock-weary cynics. (And the bastard of it is, I heard a Bravery song a while back and thought 'this is incredibly unspecial, WTF's the deal?' OH NO I AM ONE OF YOU NOW)

― Stupornaut (natepatrin), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:11 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm sure they're doin' it for Chuck Eddy.

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:13 (twenty-one years ago)

I mean, he puts out, right?

― Mr. Harvey Weinstein (mr harvey weinstein), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:14 (twenty-one years ago)

How about "all people need to come up with something else?"

What next big thing has there been lately that was considered a big deal to anyone with some experience? Next big things are about keeping the industry alive when it's boring. Robyn Hitchcock to thread!

Unless you're talking about a very strict style of rock music, to me, it is the most wide open territory for popular music that will never get boring as long as there are talented people creating it. It is about the least limited "genre" of music that includes anything from Captain Beefheart to Bryan Adams, as interesting or boring as you want to make it. It's not defined by as rigid a format as jazz, funk, blues or hiphop, for instance, as it can incorporate elements of all the above and still be more "rock" than anything else.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 08:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"it's true! we're so lame!"

― Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 09:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm imagining this thread's creator going up to strangers in bars and showing them a photo of his girlfriend, with a speech bubble saying "WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE"

― DJ Mencap0))), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 09:31 (twenty-one years ago)

It's not defined by as rigid a format as jazz

Acker Bilk and Ornette Coleman to thread.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 09:45 (twenty-one years ago)

What next big thing has there been lately that was considered a big deal to anyone with some experience?

Ummmm, grime, click-house, carioca funk, screw, desi, meatl and experimental horse music.

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:10 (twenty-one years ago)

i heart experimental horse music.

― irrigation can save your people (irrigation can save your peopl), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Acker Bilk and Ornette Coleman to thread.

There is experimental jazz, but it isn't anywhere near as experimental as experimental rock can be. If it stretches too far, it will most likely be called "rock". I mean, jazz is basically a variant of blues that is recognizable due to it's "jazzy" qualities. Rock is also a variant of blues but is so wide open that dozens of subgenres are used to describe it.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:24 (twenty-one years ago)

Ummmm, grime, click-house, carioca funk, screw, desi, meatl and experimental horse music.

We see things differently. For me, the flash has gone out of the pan already on these tiny little niches. And I never considered any of this a "big deal" to begin with.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:27 (twenty-one years ago)

My fellow caucasians: this womans words, though they may seem intemperate, ring true. Let us take them not as a chastisment but as a challenge. At a minimum we could agree to abandon the guitar.

― J Paul Calhoun, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Hm. Rock music without a guitar? Does Morphine rock? Other examples?

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:30 (twenty-one years ago)

Morphine has a bass guitar.

― NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:35 (twenty-one years ago)

b-b-but white people didn't come up with rock music...

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:38 (twenty-one years ago)

or jazz. or blues. or rap.

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:40 (twenty-one years ago)

or soul. or funk. or disco.

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

Hey, my girlfriend was reading about some uber-lame new r&b act. "Black people need to come up with something else," she remarked. Pretty cool, huh?

― not hurting, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:42 (twenty-one years ago)

She's definitely cool! She's misanthropically cool! She's right on both counts I reckon.

― moley, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Wow, amazing coincidence. I just happened to be listening to some frothy new J-pop group the other day. Guess what my girlfriend remarked? "Asians need to come up with something else," she said.

― random dude, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:49 (twenty-one years ago)

You're being sarcastic! I can tell!

― moley, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 10:51 (twenty-one years ago)

You're girlfriend seems to be a moron. Perhaps slightly racist, too.

― Popular Consensus (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Your

― Popular Consensus (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Naah she's on it man. She's TOTMFM.

― moley, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Play your girlfriend some Burzum.

― Dik Wessle, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I don't know what offends me more; The Bravery or people's reactions to The Bravery. I find the single quite catchy and cute in it's own way though.

― Sven Bastard (blueski), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:16 (twenty-one years ago)

"This is.....huh, wahwer!"
x-post

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:17 (twenty-one years ago)

Did white people invent music?

― Jacob (Jacob), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Where do people even hear the fucking Bravery enough to get annoyed by them? I've managed to avoid that shit, more or less. I think I heard one song that I don't remember anything about...

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:21 (twenty-one years ago)

The originators of music were furred creatures from the continent of Lemuria.

― TJ Hooker, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:23 (twenty-one years ago)

This might not be entirely on topic, but someone just came into my office and claimed he was the only Asian in the world to have a record contract

― DJ Mencap0))), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:25 (twenty-one years ago)

It was that dude from the Neptunes, wasn't it?

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Who gives a fuck what genres a phenotype comes up with? Popular music is popular music.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Or to clarify, considering the enormous pool of music out there, why generically associate whiteboys/girls with some flavor of the month rock band?

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:37 (twenty-one years ago)

"Girlfriends should come of with better rhetorical questions"

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Make that statement! "Questions" doesn't quite fit the bill.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:42 (twenty-one years ago)

He's right, Mencap. Only one Asian has ever had a record deal. I read that somewhere.

― moley, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:44 (twenty-one years ago)

OK it was William Hung, then.

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 11:49 (twenty-one years ago)

having considered Hurting's GF's analysis, i would counter that it's the music press that has to come up with something new, not the musicians, white or otherwise. The Bravery would not exist in a world without lazy music journalism.

equally, the Bravery would not exist in a world that didn't frown upon violent axe crimes. provided that, in said world, i had access to an axe.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:51 (twenty-one years ago)

This might be the funniest fucking thing I have ever read.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:54 (twenty-one years ago)

If laughing has been replaced by pounding your head on the very corner of a metal table until you can't spell "cretinous" any more then yeah, very funny.

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 12:58 (twenty-one years ago)

people, who cares, it's just pop music for christ's sake

― anx, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:03 (twenty-one years ago)

Oh sorry. Right everyone, put the message board away, it's time for tea.

― A / F#m / Bm / D (Lynskey), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:04 (twenty-one years ago)

The moral of this story is "Don't tell certain stories to people outside of your circle of friends because tone and intent do not translate."

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

This might be the funniest fucking thing I have ever read.
-- Ferlin Husky (noodle_vagu...), March 22nd, 2005.

If laughing has been replaced by pounding your head on the very corner of a metal table until you can't spell "cretinous" any more then yeah, very funny.

OH come on now. Are you trying to tell me there isn't more variety under the umbrella of "rock" than under the umbrella of "jazz"? I know jazz is extremely varied and jazz musicians have been known to cover vast explanses of territory in just a couple of years, not to mention what one good jazz musician accomplishes in a whole career, but all rock music needs to fit under the category of "rock" is a rock beat. And sometimes not even that.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:14 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes, explances!

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I've rubbed a hole in my dick.

― eye elle emme, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:20 (twenty-one years ago)

Your girlfriend is so gay

― David Allen (David Allen), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:33 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is hilarious.

― jazz is basically a variant of blues that is recognizable due to its "jazzy" qua, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:46 (twenty-one years ago)

ILM needs to come up with something else.

― ppp, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

Why do you think they called it "jazz"?

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:55 (twenty-one years ago)

"Everyone needs money. That's why they call it 'money'!"

― jazz is basically a variant of blues that is recognizable due to its "jazzy" qua, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I live in a cave: are The Bravery the band with the video clip where all the dominos are falling over?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 13:59 (twenty-one years ago)

Experimental jazz:
http://www.jazzphotography.us/images/musicians/jarrett1.jpg
vs.
Experimental rock:
http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/5860/DickRock.jpg

― - (smile), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

Nonsense. Jazz means 'to enliven' and that's exactly what jazz music did to the blues.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:00 (twenty-one years ago)

jazz

n 1: empty rhetoric or insincere or exaggerated talk; "that's a lot of wind"; "don't give me any of that jazz" [syn: wind, idle words, nothingness] 2: a genre of popular music that originated in New Orleans around 1900 and developed through increasingly complex styles 3: a style of dance music popular in the 1920s; similar to New Orleans jazz but played by large bands v 1: play something in the style of jazz 2: have sexual intercourse with; "This student sleeps with everyone in her dorm"; "Adam knew Eve"; "Were you ever intimate with this man?"

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:02 (twenty-one years ago)

So fucking means 'enlivening'?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

Yes. Yes, it does.

― Eleventy-Twelve (Eleventy-Twelve), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:11 (twenty-one years ago)

"~~White~~ people need to come up with something else," she said.

or maybe

"White ~~people~~ need to come up with something else," she said.

or maybe

"White people need to come up with something ~~else~~," she said.

― nathalie barefoot in the head (stevie nixed), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/jdo0278l.jpg

― Pickled Pickslide, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:14 (twenty-one years ago)

“White People Need To Come Up With Something Else” should be a John Mayer record title. Can someone photoshop a b&w photo of him holding a guitar (or a copy of the Village Voice) with said title in hot pink at the bottom?

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.coastaltown.nildram.co.uk/jim/ipandertoilmers.jpg

― Jarlr'mai (jarlrmai), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:29 (twenty-one years ago)

or white people need to come up with something new they can co-opt.

― mwahahah, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:39 (twenty-one years ago)

"white people need to come"

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Why people?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:44 (twenty-one years ago)

The notion that black people are cooler than white people is one that I am instinctively repelled by because it is adolescent, not only in content but also in form -- it's a teenager's idea of an idea. It's the moron in the oxymoron. In this case, however, I think it is true. Not because of the obvious, even blatant coolness of such black inventions as jazz, or fun, or a certain kind of stylishness in dress, but because coolness is a sensibility, and sensibility, at least in this country, has chiefly been the province of the marginalized rather than the oppressed -- an example being the homosexual invention of camp. Oppression is usually so annihilating that it destroys the very possibility of sensibility. The invention of cool, the invention of a sensibility, by people who are so oppressed is in itself conclusively cool. They were literally cool enough in the face of the heat of oppression to invent a sensibility, one that is in every respect as rarefied, as ornate, as redolent of connoisseurship as camp, and, unlike homosexuals, they kept it even when white people took it away and made it square. When straight people took camp away and made it square, homosexuals couldn't wait to join them in their squareness -- to beat them to the punch. Who are now the most square people on earth? Who are the only people left who want to go into the army and get married? Homosexuals. Black people stayed cool even when white people stole it and made it square. That's undeniably cool. And that's what good sports black people are. With oppression staring them in the face, they averted their gaze and invented cool. Of course, as usual, they didn't do it on their own -- they needed sunglasses

--Fran Leibowitz

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread would make a lot more sense before Franz Ferdinand came out.

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:55 (twenty-one years ago)

i just skim-read that Leibowitz piece, but i totally agree: black people are all camp.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 14:59 (twenty-one years ago)

did white, like, people even invent, like, white people?

― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:00 (twenty-one years ago)

i just skim-read that Leibowitz piece, but i totally agree: black people are all camp.

You big silly goose!

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:03 (twenty-one years ago)

HAVE AT THEE

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:05 (twenty-one years ago)

welcome to ilm

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:10 (twenty-one years ago)

Land of geese.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Fiddy gonna git me fo' sho'.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:17 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.knox.edu/Images/_News/news_media/img/2004/fineberg-klan-s.jpg

― Pickled Pickslide, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:30 (twenty-one years ago)

didnt some white guys from duesseldorf come up with something else

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

WWII was before rock

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:35 (twenty-one years ago)

true - but wwii was invented in florence, italy, in 1272

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:38 (twenty-one years ago)

Hitler invented the remix

― miccio (miccio), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:39 (twenty-one years ago)

Germans aren't ethnically white!

Actually, if anyone is ethnically white, it's probably Germans.

― mike h. (mike h.), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Hitler was ethnically white but lyrically black.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:49 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.historyguide.org/images/hitler.jpg

"Sagen Sie, daß es loud ich schwarz ist und ich stolz bin"

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

http://creativetechnology.salford.ac.uk/fuchs/modules/input_output/Futurism/The_Art_of_Noises_files/L_Russolo_Intonarumori.jpg

"Dig that white noise."

― Pickled Pickslide, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:51 (twenty-one years ago)

surely it is more than coincidence that two people simultaneously posted pictures featuring Ron Mael.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

I heart you, Jarlr'mai.

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.folia.ch/images/Vamagn2.jpg
"dig that white noise"

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:07 (twenty-one years ago)

White people need to come up with something else

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:14 (twenty-one years ago)

White people need to give come-uppance to something else.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:16 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.graftongop.org/images/gwb/leader/Ihearyou.jpg

"Dig that white noise."

― Pickled Pickslide, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:24 (twenty-one years ago)

"Dig that white nose."

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:43 (twenty-one years ago)

that picture of Bush with the loudhailer is a still from the video for 'OPP'.

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:45 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.graftongop.org/images/gwb/leader/Ihearyou.jpg

"You down with GOP?"

"Yeah, you know me!"

― Pickled Pickslide, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 16:48 (twenty-one years ago)

genius

― Lee F# (fsharp), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 17:02 (twenty-one years ago)

Was it James Iha? Does he still have a career?

― I got the job because I was so mean, while somehow appearing so kind. (AaronHz), Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Speaking as a white person, I think it's high time we all started doing r 'n' b. We could make it stiffer, more trebly.

― moley, Tuesday, 22 March 2005 21:50 (twenty-one years ago)

The moral of this story is "Don't tell certain stories to people outside of your circle of friends because tone and intent do not translate."

-- The Ghost of Dan Perry (djperr...), March 22nd, 2005.

Dan Perry OTM. Thread meant lightly. Seems to have misfired. Ill-considered post.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:20 (twenty-one years ago)

You had to be there, etc. etc.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Sort of like Tim with Franz Ferdinand

― miccio (miccio), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:24 (twenty-one years ago)

the man who done singing in the braverys has a big chin

― elwisty (elwisty), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

big chins worry me

― elwisty (elwisty), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:28 (twenty-one years ago)

"Everyone needs money. That's why they call it 'money'!"

The first hysterical post in a wonderful, wonderful thread.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:31 (twenty-one years ago)

yes.

I live in a cave: are The Bravery the band with the video clip where all the dominos are falling over?

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:32 (twenty-one years ago)

big chins worry me

-- elwisty (kowalski9...), March 23rd, 2005.

http://home.earthlink.net/~hlovy/leno.jpg
http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Jay_Leno.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~hlovy/leno.jpg
http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Jay_Leno.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~hlovy/leno.jpg
http://www.facade.com/celebrity/photo/Jay_Leno.jpg

― latebloomer: damn cheapskate satanists (latebloomer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:40 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.nme.com/media/images/cover_050308_L.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/coventry/sport/clubs/coventrycity_fc/images/hill-150.jpg

http://www.gardenal.org/balipodo/archives/coventry5.jpg

http://www.starsautographs.co.uk/ftpImages/HillJimmy.jpg

― elwisty (elwisty), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 02:55 (twenty-one years ago)

How is it that The Bravery have like 10 times as many hits on myspace as Franz Ferdinand?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:00 (twenty-one years ago)

11t12, have you even listened to avant-garde jazz? "So long as it still has a rock beat" is a huge fucking restriction that's way bigger than what exists in avant-garde jazz. Even if you don't count non-idiomatic free improv, the range from Cecil Taylor to Anthony Braxton to Bill Frisell is pretty huge in itself, to say nothing of what happens when you count the whole jazz umbrella, including things ranging from Jobim to Django Reinhardt to Shakti. How could anyone rationally argue that this is far smaller than the range in rock music?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:12 (twenty-one years ago)

How could anyone rationally argue that this is far smaller than the range in rock music?

It's really easy to do when you are talking completely out of your ass, Sundar.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

KILLERS BOOED IN KARAOKE COCK-UP

― Masked Gazza, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I was noticing that myself.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:20 (twenty-one years ago)

since rock music itself is no longer the source of "next big things" in the grand scheme of music.

Respectfully, SEZ YOU!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:25 (twenty-one years ago)

I believe plenty of white people ARE coming up with something else, it's just that the record companies aren't attempting to force any of that stuff down our throats, we have to dig deep and look for it ourselves. Frankly I'm sick and tired of being presented with one boring, lackluster, traditional rock band after another. I'm gonna side with the girlfriend on this one.

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 03:52 (twenty-one years ago)

At the risk of sounding trite, I do think part of the problem right now is the way the music industry seems to be comfortably capitalizing on rock nostalgia by giving us an endless stream of repackaged new wave or repackaged garage or repackaged punk or whatever.

As much as I dislike John Mayer, at least the artist he most sounds like is John Mayer.

I also think The Strokes sounded somewhat fresh, at least for one album. But at the same time their music almost sounds like a last gasp or an elegy for rock.

Rock's other popular front, nu metal, occasionally produces something interesting or fresh, but many non-nu-metal types seem unable to get past the stigma that comes from middle-school kids with spiked hair, eyeliner and enormous pants.

Then there's all the music being made outside the major labels, some of which is certainly fresh and interesting. But for some reason few bands can or want to find a way to do that and also write catchy, radio-friendly songs that could make them a "next big thing."

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 04:11 (twenty-one years ago)

Bimble OTM. Scanning FM radio illustrates just how true this is.

― cdwill, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 04:57 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread has rather unpredictable twists and turns as it progresses. There are lots of bad things popping up, but also lots of good things. Most of all though: unpredictable. (Dan Perry was very much OTM about the original post, but I think my favorite post was in response to:

Ummmm, grime, click-house, carioca funk, screw, desi, meatl and experimental horse music.

It was:

We see things differently. For me, the flash has gone out of the pan already on these tiny little niches. And I never considered any of this a "big deal" to begin with.
-- Eleventy-Twelve (mycatisstaringatm...), March 22nd, 2005

(You know, except to the millions of people who listen to these "tiny little niches.")

― deej., Wednesday, 23 March 2005 05:47 (twenty-one years ago)

Christ, when did radio become of the barometer of music production at large? Does top 40 radio rock qualify as the one thing that represents the white phenotype? Should I use mainstream hip hop or "Diary of a Mad Black Woman" to sum up "black" culture. How far has discourse fallen when generalizations of that magnitude pass for truisms. But then, who gives a fuck? I have no stake in it.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 05:49 (twenty-one years ago)

Experimental horse music?

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 05:50 (twenty-one years ago)

Everyone knows that white kids listen to the Postal Service.

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 05:52 (twenty-one years ago)

BTW, my girlfriend is white, so don't anyone get your panties in a bunch.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:20 (twenty-one years ago)

You know, except to the millions of people who listen to these "tiny little niches."

I think you might be imagining the millions listening to experimental horse music, but that is perhaps just me.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:21 (twenty-one years ago)

Well I was adding them all together.

Or I assumed 'experimental horse music' was a form of shanty house i hadn't yet discovered ;)

― deej., Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Ned, I think you might be right, judging from the whopping 2 Google results for the term.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

I think you might be imagining the millions listening to experimental horse music, but that is perhaps just me.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00020H916.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

probably close to a million by this point.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:26 (twenty-one years ago)

How dare you ruin my jokes with facts.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:29 (twenty-one years ago)

how dare you undermine the influence experimental horse music has had on our popular culture.

not to mention the millions sold.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:36 (twenty-one years ago)

Is this some sort of whispering campaign?

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:37 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.musicmatic.de/Y/YoungBl1a.jpg

― Steve Gertz (sgertz), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:42 (twenty-one years ago)

the meatls never really had much of a scene, but they were hardly a flash in the pan either, i'd say.

on the other hand, can we really blame/thank white people for that?

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:43 (twenty-one years ago)

The YBT disc contains a likely ILM thread title.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

Anyway, "white people need to come up with something else" totally feels like something i'd think of to write on a p&j ballot and think "oh wait, that's not true and it's kind of stupid... but it's quirky and will totally get printed..but do i want my name by that...but it WILL get printed." one of those contrarian GIMME lines that's just worth throwing out there, you know?

also, experimental horse will never make it until it latches on to a more mainstream rhythmic template. i liked the way that richard x mashed some of it up with xtina & the hollertronix mixes were pretty awesome like that too.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I'm imagining this thread's creator going up to strangers in bars and showing them a photo of his girlfriend, with a speech bubble saying "WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE"

-- DJ Mencap0)))

This was my favorite post of the thread -- I think I might actually do this.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:48 (twenty-one years ago)

it's totally exploiting their ethnicity, though.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 06:51 (twenty-one years ago)

http://home.interlynx.net/~brand/harn/centaur.gif

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:00 (twenty-one years ago)

damn i made that horse music joke way upthread...and got nothing but crickets and tumbleweed.

― irrigation can save your people (irrigation can save your peopl), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 07:25 (twenty-one years ago)

Matey-boy from the Bravery - bastard son of Jimmy Hill and Daniel Ash?

― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 10:17 (twenty-one years ago)

the idea that white people co-opted rock and roll is simlistic and stupid.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 12:10 (twenty-one years ago)

ihttp://moviething.com/members/full/Ice-T/50248.jpg

"we dig that white noise"

― fe zaffe (fezaffe), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 12:35 (twenty-one years ago)

the idea that white people are not creating "something new" as consistantly as any other race is just embarassing and your g/f's line sweats ignorance and narrow-mindedness...that you repeat it with pride, well, I'm not sure where that leaves you

― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:46 (twenty-one years ago)

I can't decide what's funnier, the Young Black Teenagers pic or the term "experimental horse."

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 15:57 (twenty-one years ago)

If the Bravery got into a gun battle outside the offices of New York magazine, she'd change her tune. Or renew her sub.

― Ian Christe (Ian Christe), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:19 (twenty-one years ago)

Yeah, stop questioning the power and dominance of the proud white race!

― deej., Wednesday, 23 March 2005 16:36 (twenty-one years ago)

"White people need to come up with something else" sounds like something only an upper middle class white liberal at a place like Brown would say.

― shookout (shookout), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 17:12 (twenty-one years ago)

Yer also operating under the mistaken assumption that The Bravery are rock music.

― Zack Richardson (teenagequiet), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 17:23 (twenty-one years ago)

Skabba the Hut to thread

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 17:28 (twenty-one years ago)

Let's all leap to the defence of white people!

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 20:56 (twenty-one years ago)

x post

POO Best chins in rock.

― elwisty (elwisty), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 21:29 (twenty-one years ago)

look guys i am a white male and i want to tell u all something...it's not easy these days. it's really not. our jobs are being taken. our women are turning gay and entering interracial relationships. i can not dance. so i do not listen to 'pop' ie black music. when i tell ppl i like rock and roll they are like 'well that is black music too but the white's co-opted it.' this shookout person clearly does not exist in my world. so then anyway my point is where does that leave me??? can i only listen to classical, what should i do. what should i doooooooo.

― i would like some advice plaese, Wednesday, 23 March 2005 22:06 (twenty-one years ago)

Classical music was inspired by Paris Expositions of Gamelan ensembles.

― Dr. Eldon Tyrell (ex machina), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 22:10 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost "what should I do?"

I know . . . . why not make defiantly stiff and un-"funky" music, then pour verbose and densely allusive lyrics which mark your ironic and oh-so-tragically inescapable relationship of indebtedness and guilty disgust with your race's high-cultural achievements, or simply wheeze about your decadent ennui and terminal position of privilege. Be sure to sing in a nasal, whiny voice which further re-inforces your capacity to unmistakeably code as white. Then place austere, elegantly designed artwork/sleeve design on the cover of your record, perhaps a piece of medieval statuary or the interior of a high baroque palace . . . something which connects it to a traditionally European heritage while, in the seemingly dispassionate and "objective" philosophical distance of the air quotes that seem to hang like spectres over your cutesy postmodern quotation of that entrenched heritage you ironize your position in relation to the embarassing riches which are your legacy, a legacy which, of course, such attempts at ironic distance can only prosthetically extend and reanimate, naturlich. Now talk in interviews about being poor. Have the cake AND eat it too . . . and why not, it's your birthright.

― Drew Daniel (Drew Daniel), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 22:23 (twenty-one years ago)

One Bright Eyes was enough.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 March 2005 22:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Bright Eyes take their name because of "Total Eclipse of the Heart"?

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 24 March 2005 00:57 (twenty-one years ago)

Did Bright Eyes take their name because of "Total Eclipse of the Heart"?

hahahahahahahha

― Bimble... (Bimble...), Thursday, 24 March 2005 01:35 (twenty-one years ago)

Race is a cultural construct, one that has been used to justify slavery, exploitation, and murder. "Black" and "white" music are also constructs, once (and still) used to degrade the music turned out by African (and other non-anglo) Americans. In a wonderful irony, these exploitive categories are now used to glorfiy and empower rather than to denigrate. And it's not just empowered blacks, but also white supremacists, who draw these hard and fast boundaries. I find this hilarious. For while I like identity politics to an extent, they really are just one big circle jerk.

However, anyone seriously into music, knows full well that there are no racial boundaries with respect to quality. Jazz musicians may have been ripped off left and right by "white society," but many were also influenced by European marching band and classical music, making it their own in the process of appropriation. It was empowering to draw upon anglo and European forms to create something new and vibrant. Just like Dalek uses shoegaze and the avant garde to enrich hip hop, making it something uniquely culturally based. Music is a discourse, and usually those most impeded by racial or cultural barriers stand to lose the most when it comes to creating interesting sounds.

Any statement to the effect that "white" music is idiotic and decadent compared to the purity of "black" music, is ridiculously general. Rock music and Africanized and Asian/Latin American variations of it exist in every corner of the globe, making this rather provincial statement even more ridiculous. Like any popular form in a globalized economy, rock is open to interpetation from everyone, even if it does serve the indirect purpose (like hip hop, our bigger cultural export) of extending US hegemony abroad.

Though I have to admit that the statement sounds like something I'd say in a bar late at night while Dave Mathews or Sublime blares from the speakers. And, some shitty new rock band definitely deserves it.

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Thursday, 24 March 2005 08:17 (twenty-one years ago)

identity politics=a bunch of rich white kids getting a 25K+ a year education talking about oppression.

― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 24 March 2005 12:34 (twenty-one years ago)

25K ain't much so I'm not sure what the point is there.

But here's something really disturbing:

I once met a person who honestly believed that Deborah Harry "invented" rap with the song Rapture.

― mono.mono (mono.mono), Thursday, 24 March 2005 13:23 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe it's not much to you.

the point is the irony of people with every advantage life has to offer wringing their hands thinking they have anything to say about oppression.

― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 24 March 2005 13:43 (twenty-one years ago)

Obv. David Byrne invented rap. duh.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 March 2005 13:57 (twenty-one years ago)

xpost shookout yr. right -- ppl. with money should not concern themselves with societal inequality.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 March 2005 13:58 (twenty-one years ago)

This thread is just completely baffling.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Thursday, 24 March 2005 14:06 (twenty-one years ago)

I guess the smack down was just that thorough.

― The Good Dr. Bill (The Good Dr. Bill), Thursday, 24 March 2005 14:09 (twenty-one years ago)

it couldn't hve been *that* good -- white people can't throw a decent smackdown.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 24 March 2005 14:12 (twenty-one years ago)

shookout, i agree that 10k may be a lot of money to someone, but i think your point is a little off target because so much is relative to one's general social situation.

you can always argue that there is someone in a worse position so you should just aware of just how good you have it AND, by implication, keep your complaints to yourself.

but inequities exist in all societies at all levels. sometimes those with education and free time can also see social problems very clearly. sometimes these are also the people who are in the best position to lobby for a more equitable world.

BUT let's get real here: this is a site where people complain about pop songs! In the schema of real survival, how you feel about pop music isn't very relevant. That it can be a pre-occupation says a lot about one's position in the world and, in a better world, perhaps we'd all be writing our public officials and rating countries' human rights records with the fervor that we give to pop music.

― mono.mono (mono.mono), Thursday, 24 March 2005 14:20 (twenty-one years ago)

I love how this thread started off as a joke, got offensive, got serious, got jokey again, got really offensive, and then got sociological.

It's like listening to Air America! (ducks)

― J (Jay), Thursday, 24 March 2005 14:49 (twenty-one years ago)

It's all in good fun!

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Thursday, 24 March 2005 15:34 (twenty-one years ago)

Roffle ... headscratch ... frown ... roffle ... headscratch ...

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 24 March 2005 15:58 (twenty-one years ago)

maybe that's what great about pop music after all: it intertwines with everything from the frivolous to the heavy...and often in the same song.

― mono.mono (mono.mono), Thursday, 24 March 2005 17:18 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.girlpower.gov/AdultsWhoCare/images/Otherlogo/nbc.jpg

― deej., Thursday, 24 March 2005 18:51 (twenty-one years ago)

The more i read through this thread, the more willing i am to believe that experimental horse music actually exists.

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Thursday, 24 March 2005 19:43 (twenty-one years ago)

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/difftitle.jpg

― mono.mono (mono.mono), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:13 (twenty-one years ago)

i don't think i remembered the "e" was replaced with an apostrophe.

― mono.mono (mono.mono), Thursday, 24 March 2005 20:15 (twenty-one years ago)

I like the meme about middle class white people being the only people who worry about race.

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 25 March 2005 03:26 (twenty-one years ago)

Race is the tasty new dipping sauce spreading across America!

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Friday, 25 March 2005 03:29 (twenty-one years ago)

lol! self-defeating inverted snobbery! lol! the left is fucked for another 30 years

― fcussen (Burger), Friday, 25 March 2005 03:34 (twenty-one years ago)

The left is fucked every time they self-identify as "the left".

― Ferlin Husky (noodle vague), Friday, 25 March 2005 03:40 (twenty-one years ago)

life would be more interesting if instead of "the left" everyone said "the vanguard of the righteous will of the people."

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 25 March 2005 04:19 (twenty-one years ago)

The left is fucked period.

*self-identifies with the left*

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Friday, 25 March 2005 05:46 (twenty-one years ago)

White people need to come up with some new politics.

― Jacob (Jacob), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:34 (twenty-one years ago)

lol! i have fallen victim to the very slave morality i was decrying lol! an aporia, call Derrida

― fcussen (Burger), Friday, 25 March 2005 07:35 (twenty-one years ago)

The vanguard of the righteous will of the people prefers to dance to hip-hop anyway.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 25 March 2005 12:55 (twenty-one years ago)

11t12, have you even listened to avant-garde jazz?

Sure have.

Ever notice how people not real familiar with jazz can't tell the difference between smooth jazz, jazz, free jazz and avant-garde jazz? To many people, it's just "all over the place," as the stupid Carrie Bradshaw described it on Sex In The City once, to which my girlfriend said, "Yeah, that's how I feel" and laughed. Since then, I've had fun comparing the BET Jazz Channel to the Jazz and Smooth-Jazz music channel. She now realizes it is not all the same, but it took a while.

"So long as it still has a rock beat" is a huge fucking restriction that's way bigger than what exists in avant-garde jazz.

What I said was, "All rock needs is a rock beat and sometimes not even that." Jazz can never be as simple as rock, but rock can be as complex as jazz.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Friday, 25 March 2005 13:13 (twenty-one years ago)

The more i read through this thread, the more willing i am to believe that experimental horse music actually exists.

Spacemen 3.

― Lemonade Salesman (Eleventy-Twelve), Friday, 25 March 2005 13:15 (twenty-one years ago)

wow, I hadn't looked at this in a bit...er, I think you folks read too much in what I was saying. I'm all for combatting injustice and all that--I was just commenting on what I see as the humor value of identity politics. If you went to a liberal arts college in the early-to-mid '90s, you'd know what I meant. It was just plain funny. Earnest, but also funny. Lots of white people running around calling each other racist, sexist, whateverist. It was a spectacularly unproductive era for the so called left, though it didn't seem like it at the time.

― shookout (shookout), Friday, 25 March 2005 19:18 (twenty-one years ago)

The vanguard of the righteous will of the people is no laughing matter!

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 26 March 2005 02:10 (twenty-one years ago)

I get it shookout!

― James Slone (Freon Trotsky), Saturday, 26 March 2005 13:08 (twenty-one years ago)

I find it hard to believe that even the most naive listener wouldn't be able to tell the difference between "Anything Goes" and "Jitney No 2".

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 26 March 2005 16:52 (twenty-one years ago)

two months pass...

That Spacemen 3 joke upthread is CLASSIC.

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 6 June 2005 23:11 (twenty years ago)

Hip-hop is polluting the pure, virginal, Aryan airwaves.

― Cunga (Cunga), Monday, 6 June 2005 23:54 (twenty years ago)

three months pass...

George Bush don't care about black people.

― G. W. Bush, Friday, 30 September 2005 20:57 (twenty years ago)

six months pass...

yer girlfriend is a commie

― jfdslkljfdsk lkjdsfjfdslk, Wednesday, 12 April 2006 00:43 (twenty years ago)

i want to know if Hurting's girlfriend likes Steely Dan.

― A|ex P@reene (Pareene), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:07 (twenty years ago)

i think we all want to know that, alex

― gear (gear), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:08 (twenty years ago)

So the Bravery ended up not being The Next Really Big Thing, huh?

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 01:14 (twenty years ago)

I think it's because The Bravery actually managed to sound authentically mid '80s... or because Sam Endicott foolishly denied the overtly obvious influences that are right there in The Bravery's music. Nevertheless, The Bravery sounded much more '80s than Franz Ferdinand or, speaking of hilarities, Bloc Party, who are a good group but are so totally NOT '80s-sounding (which is why they got all those rave reviews -- their late '70s sound is more critically acceptable than any revival of mid '80s synth wave).

― See Me, Repeat Me (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 02:28 (twenty years ago)

Anyway, I'm all for "white people" NOT "coming up with something new". Not at this moment, not when I can see a mid '80s synthpop/synthfunk revival coming in the foreseeable future. Come on baby, Mama needs a band who'll namedrop Scritti Politti and Wang Chung.

― See Me, Repeat Me (Dee the Lurker), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 02:31 (twenty years ago)

The Bravery weren't the next big thing because their elaborate Rube Goldberg machine failed to operate properly.

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 04:54 (twenty years ago)

did we ever find out what the girlfriend thouht white people should come up with?

― ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 07:45 (twenty years ago)

Tax fiddles.

― Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 08:48 (twenty years ago)

So the Bravery ended up not being The Next Really Big Thing, huh?
-- Michael Daddino (epicharmu...), April 12th, 2006.

thankfully, the answer was a resounding "NO".
now, if we can get Ultragrrl to stop pluggin the Killers we can put an end to this 'next really big thing' thing.
maybe...

― eedd, Wednesday, 12 April 2006 12:08 (twenty years ago)

Someone link that NME cover about the Killers dude growing a beard and "what it means."

― mike h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 13:59 (twenty years ago)

worst thread title ever.

― s1ocki (slutsky), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 14:10 (twenty years ago)

White people need to steal some new music. But what's left?

― js (honestengine), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 14:44 (twenty years ago)

Chinese opera!

― Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 14:47 (twenty years ago)

OMG NME COVER NOW

― Fight the Real Enemy -- Tasti D-Lite (ex machina), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 14:59 (twenty years ago)

Stephen Merritt to thread.

― Neil Stewart (Neil Stewart), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 15:08 (twenty years ago)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0009K7RLQ.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Neil Stewart (Neil Stewart), Wednesday, 12 April 2006 15:11 (twenty years ago)

two years pass...

― Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Saturday, 1 November 2008 18:25 (seventeen years ago)

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.