C/D ::: Tortoise's TNT

xpost!

I don't listen to Standards much, but All Around You is great!

they are still killing it at their live shows too. always amazing.

http://www.cleftandcloven.com/tortoise.mp3

RS, my good friend.

OTM

Thanks, Hurting! Ha, I don't think I could bring myself do that, but McEntire did just mix a record that the guitarist is on (Cougar), so there's some connection.

I thought "Standards" had a few really good tracks and some that were kind of meh. I still haven't picked up the last one and missed Tortoise on tour for the first time in a long time.

I was listening to Isis' "Oceanic" while driving at night this past Saturday and I couldn't help but notice how one selection reminded me a bit of Tortoise.

oh my god it took me way too long to figure out this album is amazing

oh yeah, killer album. I only own this and Standards but I pull this one out way more often

you ought to check out millions now living

this is a beautiful album and there are also autechre and derrick carter remixes

i bought a copy of millions now living when i was 14, i think trying to understand that record before i had any real context for it was... p influential on the kinds of music i was drawn to for years

my faves were always millions and standards, for some reason i found tnt too sleepy? but that’s why it’s so good

I've def heard Millions before, just never been lucky enough to find a thrift-store copy (which is the source of 99% of my CDs)

Millions and TNT both stone cold classics but nigh on incomparable imo. The latter is so warm and, indeed, sleepy and dreamlike. Millions more of a 'statement' record, albeit a truly remarkable one. It's funny how for quite an abstract track the the title song is etched into my memory, every twist and turn.

Also, I'm not a real vinyl stan but the lp version of TNT just fucking grooves like the cd doesn't?

Never managed to really get into Millions (too cold) and never cared much for Standards (too atonal), but TNT is probably amongst the ten most beautiful albums I know. Sometimes I'll pull it out to hear a specific riff or segue, just to end up listening to the whole damn thing.

This is still the one for me, it still has a lot of magic. And I always forget about some of the more heavily electronic sections near the end.

I think the self-titled is the cold one - cold to the bone (and it has Bundy Brown: truly, we are not worthy). Millions is more expansive and open. TNT even more so.

There was an ILM contingent that used to talk a lot of shit about Tortoise iirc, but I think we all tend to abandon certain musical prejudices as we age (unless we are just stuck-in-the-mud assholes). I love this album.

FWIW TNT was actually the one that was the way in for me -- when I first heard the s/t I thought the people repping it to me had lost their minds.

i like the s/t ok but it's mostly interesting bc of where they went afterward

The best way to hear the first 2 releases (Tortoise + Rhythms, Resolution & Clusters) is this nifty JP special edition that's like a seamless mix of the source material and some remixes and ephemera. Kinda renders the previous two moot:

https://www.discogs.com/Tortoise-A-Digest-Compendium-Of-The-Tortoises-World/master/3946

Relistening to TNT now, it's funny how people are Jeff Parker this/that, but Pajo is all over this, I guess people forgot he was still in the band at this point.

"The Suspension Bridge At Iguazu Falls" has a major section that is a pretty blatant rip-off of "The Theme From Endless Summer" from The Sandals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzh4i0u5Gto

Oh shit I was just at Iguazu Falls, I really missed an opportunity

I always found it slightly amusic/annoying that they "rip off" Steve Reich but basically just do repetitive marimba shit that sounds vaguely steve reichy without any of the interesting phase-shifting aspect that makes Steve Reich's music what it is. I forgive them for it though.

Lol, which reminds me of the time I saw them close the Bang on a Can festival and just look pathetically sloppy following the musicians that played the rest of it. Again, forgiven though, still love the boys.

iirc Pajo left the group partway through recording this - so some of it is him and some of it is Parker, right?

It's funny to think that one of their best albums is also their "transitional" album. i.e., they very much settled into a sound once Parker joined the group and their lineup finally solidified. You can hear inklings of their past and their future in this record, but it's also arguably better than everything that came after.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

I am overall a bigger fan of Parker Tortoise than Pajo Tortoise, even though I love Pajo. They sound a little too clean in the Pajo era at times, and Parker's off-kilter melodies spice things up a bit.

I'm a fan of every era, to be clear. Though as much as I like Parker's playing I do feel like the group in general has settled into something over the last 2-3 albums. I wish they'd shake it up a little more.

I saw them play years back and everything was very good and very nice and then they closed with Djed and you could just feel the ambition of that track. They've never really felt *ambitious* in a long time.

Could be a fun thread - "superior 'transitional' albums". (Though I can't think of any other examples.)

― sctttnnnt (pgwp), Thursday, February 7, 2019 4:37 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

love this idea. i'm sure i love a few that qualify

I sometimes feel like music sort of "caught up" with them, and then they didn't really have a way to push things further.

I remember reading that TNT was their first album with Pro Tools, but in a small rehearsal space with minimal gear, so they had to laboriously record it one instrument at a time. Not a scenario they would want to repeat I'm sure, but it really worked.

ts: "la jetee" vs. "jetty"

wrong album but i'm listening to millions now living rn and "glass museum" whips a ton of ass, i nearly forgot

take it to the millions now living thread bub

I like me some TNT, but I'll go with "La Jetee" every time fwiw--that first Isotope record is so much fun.

I first heard that Isotope record in a store on the outskirts of Denver - one of those record store experiences that stay with you. It's great.

I like the 'sloppy' comment upthread. They *are* kinda sloppy. Whenever I've seen them live I'm always kind of stunned by how sloppy Herndon and McEntire are. None of which is a criticism.

It wasn’t something that had ever struck me seeing them live in the past, but watching them follow a bunch of conservatory trained musicians sort of brought it into relief.

I always recommend Gastr del Sol's Camoufleur as a twofer for those who dig TNT (and who doesn't). They came out around the same time and have a similar sound/vibe. They're somewhat inseparable in my mind from being in constant rotation during the spring/summer of '98.

If there's a criticism to be levelled at Tortoise it's that their a po-faced old bunch - even their playfulness seems studied and stiff. Which is to say, I think Gastr del Sol are too irreverent and whimsical to be Tortoise bedfellows.

I wouldn't say they're terribly similar outfits in general but McEntire played on and produced some of Camofleur so I don't think it's much of a stretch.

(I mean, more broadly I'd recommend the other 'McIntire sound' joints from that era e.g. Dots and Loops and the Spinanes' Arches and Aisles but this particular pairing feels more natural since they were released weeks apart, shared personnel, both had covers featuring abstract sketches on a stark white field, etc.)

That sounded grumpier than I meant it to! Both fab just hadn't really considered them together before.

Nah, didn't take it as grumpy at all, no worries.

Also Tortoise's self-titled debut album doesn't seem to get a ton of praise but I think it's very good and not too distant from their best stuff.

Maaaan, that period of Thrill Jockey/Drag City releases was like a womb within which my musical self gestated. So you have them to blame, I guess.

TNT, Arches and Aisles and Camoufleur (and the first two Isotope records) all very much belong to the same particular time and place for me. Also the first few Sea and Cake records and the Sam Prekop s/t.

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol lineup so it’s fair to call them bedfellows I think. Obviously they took different paths and added important members later but they are both rooted from the same place.

Yeah, I was thinking sonically, and specifically about Camoufleur, which has led me realise I don't really know early Gastr all that well. Something for the weekend...

A detailed playlist of all the inter-related Chicago stuff from this period would be the thing.

I forgot the first Pullman album was from '98, as well. Again with that same soporific vibe. Quite a neat little nexus at that particular moment.

yeah that's a lesser artifact of the era but still enjoyable

The first Brokeback album was '99, too.

Eleventh Dream Day has done some good shit in the last decade or so

The backing band for the Brian McMahan's debut EP (The For Carnation "Fight Songs" - 1995) was:

David Pajo
Doug McCombs
John Herndon

which was like half of Tortoise at that point.

I would definitely lump their full album in with this lot but it came out a couple years later.

I didn't delve into tons of other Chicago stuff besides the Sea and Cake, some of the Isotope/Underground records, and Jeff Parker's work. Listening to Camofleur for the first time as I type this!

And I was really into Hefty Records (via Telefon Tel Aviv), which was more of a spiritual cousin than part of the circle.

If it's in, big call but the first For Carnation album is my favourite of all this stuff.

Listening to Camofleur for the first time as I type this!

― change display name (Jordan), Friday, February 8, 2019 2:13 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Jealous! Man, to hear 'The Seasons Reverse' again for the first time.

I'm seeing Grubbs/McEntire in a month kinda randomly.

Jeff Parker's the New Breed from a couple years ago is excellent

https://www.allmusic.com/album/the-new-breed-mw0002945746

^looove that record

So far Camofleur sounds like a nice blend of Isotope 217 (electronics & processed horns) and Sea and Cake (soft pop, not to over-generalize). Really nice.

It's sort of their easy listening album. The earlier stuff was a little more 'difficult'.

speaking of post rock first listens

will never forget the first time i heard "Our Exquisite Replica of "Eternity""

I always do this, but have to recommend the first Cougar album, made by a group of my friends and very much influenced by this music (TNT in particular). And mixed by McEntire.

https://open.spotify.com/album/1rrQX4w2GxuStM713LTEA8?si=D64l8fFxSzmRl31__fVPzQ

Second album is better produced and maybe better overall, but this one has the pretty melodies and is more naturalistic.

xpost My mind was blown then and blown a second time when I saw The Incredible Shrinking Man a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dpsu6RV4dJk

wow, arches and aisles is great, i don't know how i missed it

love camofleur, david grubbs is underrated, there are two great tribute records from japan from around this time that have plenty of folks from that whole scene, "smiling pets" the beach boys tribute and "rabid chords" the velvet underground tribute, it's a good nutshell of the sort of stuff i was into in those days

Totally forgot about Smiling Pets!

Arches and Aisles is a great album, but I'd also recommend the rest of the McEntire-less Spinanes/Rebecca Gates discography. She's fantastic and sadly underrated imo.

<3 this revive

This revive has sent me off down all sorts of rabbit holes. Not even heard of those Japanese tributes. Or the Spinanes.

Great thread revive indeed. Getting pretty nostalgic for that era. Late 90s, Thrill Jockey / Drag City, takes me back to some pretty golden musical days for me.
Had never heard of the Spinanes connection. I'm checking out Arches and Aisles, it's pretty good but it definitely reminds me how Manos was labelled on some ilx thread as perfect music to "listen to alone in your flat with a cup of coffee on a chilly, overcast morning". They just sound so relentlessly dour.

Strange, I never considered Tortoise the least bit loose or sloppy. I did generally get the feeling that Herndon and McEntire in particular were trying to "jazz" up the compositions a bit, but the product was always still very stiff and formalized, wed to the original arrangement. Though I seem to recall a few of their earlier shows seeing more one-off experiments, like one I saw with Bitney on a home made electric drum set. Speaking of which:

Tortoise literally sprang from the original Gastr del Sol

Ehhhh ...I mean, there was McEntire and Bundy, who were in Bastro before that with Grubbs. But Bundy and McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album, etc. All these Chicago-y bands at the time were kind of overlapping a bit across a weird Oberlin/post-Slint Louisville axis. (And obviously Doug McCombs, another major Louisville/Chicago connection.) Squirrel Bait, Bastro, Bitch Magnet, Seam, Shrimp Boat (incl. Brad Wood) to Tortoise/Sea and Cake, Gastr del Sol. It was kind of a gradual evolution of line-ups and players. And Idful.

don't forget Codeine!

McEntire also played a bit on Seam's first (or second?) album

The drummer on Headsparks (Seam's first album), was none other than Mac McCaughan (and he's great):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT52-pdhEeQ

Mac McCaughan, to tie everything up, is on the new Merge records 'Heroes' album - mentioned on the boards somewhere today.

Bundy and McEntire play on the the second album, then. Maybe "Sweet Pea?"

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

The lineup for the first Gastr del Sol album is Grubbs, McEntire and Brown. Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise. It’s not a stretch to say they’re connected. There are moments on Serpentine Similar that definitely point toward the first Tortoise album, if you can look past Grubbs’ very distinctive guitar style.

Obviously both bands evolved immensely after that due to significant additions to their lineups (and the departure of Brown from everything). But it’s interesting to listen to Serpentine and then the Tortoise debut.

Checked out The Spinanes 'Arches and Aisles' earlier due to this thread and really like it, thanks!

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

and yeah obv there's a grubbs-tortoise connection, see also bastro's "antlers: live 1991", which is fucking great

I mean, all these connections and such aren't really particularly interesting bc at the end of the day Tortoise are the only band from the whole scene that is worth shit. Tortoise >>>>>>>>>>>>>> every other band mentioned in this revive

take it to the controp thread, person with bad opinions

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

Codeine ... not too much overlap there. I think Grubbs appears on one album?

― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, February 10, 2019 12:25 PM (four hours ago)

Doug Scharin (Rex, HiM, Directions In Music) replaced Chris Brokaw on their 2nd album.

I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

I mean sure, I don’t know. I’m just trying to make a simple point that there is some stylistic overlap in the GdS album if you listen for it.

Wasn't there a book about post-rock's history coming out late last year or this year? I forgot both author and title.

This one, maybe? It came out in 2017.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41qYjStpxWL._SX347_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

That was it, thanks!

Chicago Underground Quartet s/t fits in well here too. Jeff Parker's work with Makaya McCraven also worth seeking out (discussed on the rolling jazz thread).

I thought there were more people from the Tar Babies in the band. or that more of teh band had been in the Tar Babies, certainly thought there was band history in them when i picked up the 2nd lp No Contest on cd. Quite fun hyper funk hardcorish stuff, I think it reminded me of the early meat puppets but coming more from funk instead of bluegrass. Otherwise similar melange of different influences played faster than you're used to from the original influences.
Looks like it's only Dan Bitney that were in them.

Did we mention 5ive Style? Another related side note.

Then McEntire and Brown split off and formed Tortoise.
I thought it started with Herndon and McCombs, to some extent. Then McEntire and Brown joined. Then Bitney. Not that the order matters, I've just never heard them described as a Gastr spin-off. A lot of the stuff was happening at the same time and overlapping.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 11 February 2019 01:06 (fourteen hours ago) Permalink

This is my understanding as well, the idea was for Herndon & McCombs, who got to know each other when Precious Wax Drippings & Eleventh Dream Day respectively toured together, to be a kind of rhythm section for hire a la Sly & Robbie. That was the germ at least (and they played one show that way? Opening for the Ex) and as mentioned above there was just a lot of Chicago/Louisville/etc overlap.

arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

indeed, i'm listening to his record of weird coltrane arrangements for acoustic guitar. very much along the lines of "huh, this is a coltrane song? i thought i'd heard this one before."

ok, now i've been tracking grubbs' career and i found out that he's on this arrangement of gesualdo's madrigals for five guitars by Noël Akchoté, fairly interesting

that's a fun record, noel akchote is a curious character

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=737E-NURglE

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

^ another one that was in heavy rotation around the same time

Totally forgot about that record.

Anyone else going to be at Pitchfork's Midwinter festival in Chicago this weekend? Lineup is quite good all around, but I'm most looking forward to Tortoise's performance of TNT.

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

Big fan of "Whirlweek." Grubbs's post-Gastr song-based records don't get as much love as O'Rourke's, and they're admittedly a bit spotty, but there's still some good stuff to be found.

This was listed in Downtown Music Gallery's newsletter of this week, although the release (of another Tortoise sideproject) isn't new: http://www.chicagoodenseensemble.com/

Found ‘Standards’ pretty rough to get into (I guess I like my Tortoise easy and jazzy) but really liked ‘It’s All Around You’. Surprised not to see it mentioned itt

It's All Around You was very proto-chillwave

Standards has 'Monica', which is a top 10 Tortoise track for me. It's All Around You was their last great record imo.

It's All Around You is prob my second fave Tortoise (aside from the A Lazarus Taxon b-sides/remixes collection, which I listened to a ton).

pandering to the madison area crowd with that one tho

lol

Listening to IAAY and the title track has that great rhythmic illusion going on. I think it's almost entirely down to the drum kit in the left channel doing that persistent 4-against-3 thing?

Five Too Many is almost deconstructed Afrobeat, and continues the proud/shameful tradition of songs with the time signature in the title.

I remember writing an old demo that was basically Afrobeat in 5, it must have been inspired by this.

I like Akchote's electric work on this Grubbs' song:

(McEntire on drums just to stay topical)

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli)

haha, "whirlweek" was the first solo grubbs song i heard, had no idea that was akchote on it!

Thanks for the Savath + Salas heads up. This is magnificent.

Oh hey: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/tortoise-tnt/

That's the first time I've read pitchfork in many, many years and the reason why:

TNT’s opening title track is the most live-sounding cut on the record, but it, too, was carefully built one part at a time. As it begins, the cymbals and snare taps are like the tide rolling in, the skitters and crashes are as jazzy as Tortoise get, and out of this foamy pile emerges Jeff Parker’s immortal guitar line.

Anyone who listened to M/Aerial M during this time period knows that this is 100% Pajo.

I wrote this upthread, and this sentiment is exactly what I was referring to:
"Relistening to TNT now, it's funny how people are Jeff Parker this/that, but Pajo is all over this, I guess people forgot he was still in the band at this point."

i think it's a 13-note phrase, by my mind's recollection..

classic, tho

Anyone else going to be at Pitchfork's Midwinter festival in Chicago this weekend? Lineup is quite good all around, but I'm most looking forward to Tortoise's performance of TNT.

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

― Indexed, Tuesday, February 12, 2019 3:57 PM (five days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I hope someone records the TNT set, would love to hear that

Guess I'm the only person who really liked The Catastrophist?

(I like every Tortoise album btw)

Pulled out my vinyl copy of TNT tonight, which I've had for nearly 20 years, and learned for the first time that sides 1 and 3 have cool locked grooves.

i have to admit I'm not 100% sure that's Pajo on the first track -- the style is more Pajo but the tone sounds like Parker to me. Is there a definitive answer somewhere?

I mean, here's them live in 98 with just Parker

https://youtu.be/Zfujgu5w54E?t=1826 (around 30:55 -- sounds pretty damn close to the record to me)

This article makes me wonder if Tortoise even knows who came up with the guitar part for that song.

http://drownedinsound.com/in_depth/4149985-album-by-album-with-tortoise

I definitely saw Tortoise a bunch early on, and since I remember when Jeff started playing with them (it was the first time there was guitar on stage) I'm pretty sure it was Bundy I saw playing with them before that. (I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.) I'm 90% sure I never saw Pajo with Tortoise.

McCombs did indeed play a lot of six-string bass/baritone guitar. I remember that being his thing in Tortoise. I once saw Eleventh Dream Day play an in-store around 1994, as a trio, and I kept trying to identify the fish icon on the back of McCombs' bass. Eventually someone turned around, gave me a look like I was the dumbest person in the world, and just says "it's a bass," and I was, like, "ohhhhhhhhhh!"

Yeah I remember seeing them live and realizing that a lot of those especially thick sounding guitar parts were actually Doug on a Bass 6. But even with that, they switched up so much in the live show that I'm not sure that was necessarily him on the record for those particular parts either.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51549861_10161292479860304_4637805763253764096_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=7b84ab703b3f6573b9abbcf7f51d296d&oe=5CF6FD45

Interior is not much better.

A friend of mine pointed out that it was bought only recently for $720,000, so my guess is it's an attempted Amazon HQ2 flip. Whoops.

solid revive

lol wrong thread on last post obv

lol xp i was like "is that the house where they lived and recorded TNT?"

ate only rice iirc

(I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.)

I really like the Directions in Music album he did. Sort of post-classic-rock.

Yeah, but that was 15 years ago or so right?

23 years ago!

(aside from the A Lazarus Taxon b-sides/remixes collection, which I listened to a ton).

Listening to 'Waihopei' and the way the blown-out acoustic drums keep popping in and out of the track around the drum machine, man, I tried to rip that off many times in the mid '00s.

(I remember Bundy being this more mysterious figure; I have no idea what became of him.)

I really like the Directions in Music album he did. Sort of post-classic-rock.

― Position Position, Monday, February 18, 2019 4:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this is perhaps my favorite record of the whole scene/time, love all the dubby textures sitting with acoustic guitars. all the musicians on it sound great.

i remember reading a long time ago that Brown was working as an EMT.

also, because of this thread i listened to the For Carnation s/t album for the first time. i had the marshmallows cd back in the day and never liked it much, but this record is great!

That s/t For Carnation is a lost classic. Kinda like Spiderland or a Low record - if you settle yourself in and embrace its mood, it’s pretty brilliant.

I hope someone records the TNT set, would love to hear that

Guess I'm the only person who really liked The Catastrophist?

(I like every Tortoise album btw)

― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, February 17, 2019 8:09 AM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

It was superb. Aside from Grouper, nothing else I saw this weekend came close. They were very tight and cohesive and brought a good amount of energy to the performance.

As someone who never got to see them perform in their heyday, it certainly transformed the way I think about TNT from a headphones/studio/post-production album - mostly driven by its stop-start rhythms and shifting styles - to an actual composition that could translate to the live stage.

...how many shows did you go to over the weekend?

Festival?

https://midwinter.pitchfork.com/

the for carnation album is indeed a wondrous thing. Hopefully it one day will be rediscovered

Brian McMahon whispering 'who did this to us?' at the end of Moonbeams is one of the most heartstopping moments in all of music.

many xps, but whoever posted Parker playing "TNT" upthread should realize that he flubs the riff (or plays it intentionally loose to the point of a flub?).

Here's Pajo playing "Gamera" (a song BKB wrote for the band) live on baritone guitar, almost sounds like a preclude to "TNT":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYdWHwnWxD0

Go to 3:48 on this track for a very similar riff to the one played on TNT, recorded around the same time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Avr7Y23GgA

Yeah, I know what Pajo sounds like. It's possible that he wrote the riff (especially based on the article posted above) but I believe it's Parker playing it. Hearing those clips again only further convinces me -- the tone on TNT doesn't sound like Pajo.

I call him "PJ" we have a great vibe

What is the correct pronunciation of Pajo's name? Asking for a friend.

PJ's cool about it Pah-jo, Pa-ho it's just letters and sounds

'Dave'

I mean, I know we all have bad days.... but listening to Parker here is like a jr. high school cover band sitting in, just can't hear him as author of that riff (esp as I've yet to hear him play it "right"!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghIkdcYdSfg

xp: pa-ho.

Huh, I think he's just picking the wrong time to be a jazz dude about it. I mean, he starts playing it straight once the whole band comes in (2 min).

This seems relevant to recent discussion:

'imagine a graphic showing all the bands the five members of Tortoise were in' reminded me of this 'a beautiful mind'-esque diagram @WNUR893 gave out to all the freshmen DJs when i was at NU :-) pic.twitter.com/ACAH4KIfFr

— arielle (@reallygordon) February 17, 2019

omg memories
whoa

i feel like there is an extra wing of/appendix to that diagram for all of the jazz/improv stuff happening at the time. very fruitful chicago period!

probably also missing a lot of stuff
also (eleventh dream day) too small

chicago is always fruitful, what am i saying

i feel like something like that chart actually existed online in the late '90s, can't imagine where i saw it, tho

Ah, here it is -- a "Squirrel Bait Genealogy"

http://www.chimpomatic.com/file-uploads/large/squirrelbait_family_tree.jpg

And then apparently David Grubbs made his own version more recently:

https://www.paynomindtous.it/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/squirrel_bait_band_family_tree.jpg

Always been a big Tortoise fan but I was a kid/teen during this period and hadn't delved into all these offshoots and related acts. This thread has been super rewarding the past few weeks.

Tortoise genealogy on BandtoBand

Pitchfork shared the entire Midwinter set of TNT I mentioned above.

https://pitchfork.com/news/watch-tortoise-perform-tnt-in-full-at-pitchfork-and-the-art-institute-of-chicagos-midwinter/

https://youtu.be/EwJf5fw57Yo

Wow, thanks for that!

nice, i grabbed an aud of the set off dime and it was a fun listen

I saw John McEntire perform solo a few days ago and it was excellent. First time I'd seen him in any capicity since the mid-90s. Kind of an interesting rig (it's posted on his IG if you follow him).

i listened to the first savath and savalas album today for the first time. parts of it really reminded me of TNT.

Loving this pfork set, it warms my heart to see all those old dudes playing this music

me too!!
that was one of the things i enjoyed about seeing the video :)

i find myself very distracted by mcentire’s chest tattoos.

lol @ playing their own vinyl for 'Almost Always is Nearly Enough', I wondered how they were going to do that (was hoping for sample pad jams).

that pfork set is goddamn astonishing

I bought this on CD for 4 bucks the other day cuz of this thread *thumbs up* a few friends of mine in HS owned it and played it a lot. The mournful melodica track towards the beginning always made me feel cold and lonely but I'm digging it more now.

The Reichian stuff too.. that annoyed me back then for some reason but I'm liking it now

that pfork set is goddamn astonishing

― jolene club remix (BradNelson), Wednesday, March 20, 2019 5:07 PM (four hours ago)

...except for McCombs on "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls"... oof. Brutal. Went into a deep flubberage mode and never really got out of it.

Just found that Savath and Salas album for £4 on eBay. Good love the internet; god love Chicagoan post-rock.

Who is the sixth player in that pitchfork set (not counting horns and strings)? One youtube commenter said it's Bundy K Brown.

James Elkington, he was in Brokeback & 11th Dream Day.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/458195-James-Elkington?filter_anv=0&subtype=Instruments-Performance&type=Credits

The guy on bass here:

https://i.imgur.com/I3XqiE5.jpg

...except for McCombs on "The Suspension Bridge at Iguazu Falls"... oof. Brutal. Went into a deep flubberage mode and never really got out of it.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, March 20, 2019 9:21 PM (one week ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i didn't really notice

xp - thanks!

36:28 is when it starts (about 3 seconds of flubs... he immediately loses all looseness and starts playing stiffer)
then the arpeggiations at 37:35 are flubbed
when he comes back in at 38:07 he starts a series of flubs which sets off a total technical breakdown through the following 30 seconds (!), and while he's struggling to recover, thankfully the end of the song comes before soon.

i spotted doug mccombs at a voivod/yob show on wed night
that guy can't hide anywhere

also ilx tortoiseheads should know that he is also in a new trio called Black Duck with two other chicago people you should check out (MacKay/McCombs/Rumback)

Black Duck is an enigmatic & electric new outfit out of Chicago that features Douglas McCombs and Bill MacKay on guitars, and Charles Rumback on drums. The trio’s propulsive psych-inflected grooves and ethereal improvisations have found enthusiastic favor with fans of varied temperaments and motivations.

man, I've seen Doug McCombs at Whole Foods

I interviewed Doug McCombs back in the day - in a pub on the Grays Inn Road, one of only three interviews I ever did in a shit career move that never quite happened. He was easy company. We spent most of the time talking about ATP wankers and Arnold Odermatt.

That is my Doug McCombs story.

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

lol

"Suspension Bridge ..." is mesmerizing (to watch as well as listen to).

Got sent a link for this by a friend and during track one felt compelled to email them and say I was only watching more if he could assure me that McEntire survived until the end.

― djh, Wednesday, April 3, 2019 3:51 PM (fifty-three minutes ago)

hahaha, he's relaxed like Perry Como in that set compared to the times I've seen them live. Had his stare set to Maim, etc.

I visited that bridge this year, true story

(although I think it's been replaced since TNT came out)