Who is the black boy in the sex pistols grundy interview?

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In the bill grundy interview, the swastika girl is siouxie from siouxie and the banshees
but who is the black boy next to her?

― grundymania, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

It's a girl.... her name escapes me for now.... I saw her at Ari Up's gig at Camden Underworld last year and she hadn't changes at all....

Debbie?

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 16:00 (twenty years ago)

"black boy"

― god i hate british people, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 16:18 (twenty years ago)

OTM. Jesus.

― Fa Fa fa FA, Fa fa Fa fa FA Fa (poop), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:03 (twenty years ago)

ye gods

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:05 (twenty years ago)

http://www.sexpistols.org/zboard/data/interview/interview_billgrundy.jpg

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:15 (twenty years ago)

nice work on the pic, jazzbo! been trying all day...

― ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 20:26 (twenty years ago)

The gent standing on the far left is Steve Severin, future Banshees bass player.

I know I'm asking for trouble here, but why the incredulity at Grundymania's question? The individual in question, from appearances, certainly could have been a boy and is most certainly black. What would you have preferred? African-Anglo Person? Is "black boy" honestly an offensive term?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

Mocha girl. *opts to die*

― Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

I'm presuming the incredulity comes from the patronising nature of the phrase 'black *boy*'. "Who's the black guy in the SPs interview?" wouldn't have provoked any such incredulity.

Or am I wrong?

― baboon, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

kinda looks like ninah cheery

― chris andrews (fraew), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:43 (twenty years ago)

alex there's an episode of wkrp you need to watch if you're really not familiar with 'boy' used as a racial slur.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

bjork did a song about that episode called 'venus as a boy'.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:48 (twenty years ago)

What's wkrp anyway?

― baboon, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:50 (twenty years ago)

oh, I need to watch it, do I, Mr.Patronizing? Listen, I'm well aware that "boy" can be used as an ethnic slur/pejorative, but it's PRIMARY defintion connotes a YOUNG MALE. Look at that picture again....would you call that individual a MAN (presuming you saw the person as male)?

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 22:51 (twenty years ago)

um, i wouldn't lightly toss off bigoted speach a la 'young master carlson' and then try to back out of it by saying i'm a poor judge of age and gender and my eyesights bad and besides it's just a bit of fun innit no.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:01 (twenty years ago)

Black boys are delicious
Chocolate flavored love
Licorice lips like candy
I keep my cocoa handy
I have such a sweet tooth
When it comes to love

Once I tried a diet
Of quiet rest no sweets
But I went nearly crazy
And I went clearly crazy
Because I really craved for
Chocolate flavored treats

Black boys are nutritious
Black boys fill me up
Black boys are so dandy yummy
Always satisfy my tummy
I have such a sweet tooth
When it comes to love

Black black black black
Black black black black
Black boys!

White boys are so pretty
Skin as smooth as milk
White boys are so pretty
They're like Chinese silk

I tell you that the white boys give me goosebumps
White boys give me the chills
And when they touch my shoulder
That's the touch that kills

Well my mama calls them ninnies
But I call them picadillies
My daddy told me stay away
But I said come on out and let's play

White boys are so groovy
White boys are so tough
And every time that they're near me
I just can't get enough

White boys are so pretty
White boys are so sweet
White boys drive me crazy
Drive me in the street

White boys are so sexy
Legs so long and lean
I love those frayed old trousers
Love the love machine

My brother called them trouble
That's my kind of trouble
My daddy told me no no no no
But I said white boys, don't go

White boys are so lovely
Beautiful as girls
I love to run my fingers
And touch through all them curls

Give me a soft, a sweet, a sexy, a sweet
A pretty, a juicy white boy
Black boy! White boy!
Black boy! White boy!
Mix me up

― ourwulliewallpaper, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:10 (twenty years ago)

oh, how i love the american white boy crusade for racial justice

― just saying, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Grundymania saw a boy (though actually a female) who was also black who he didn't recognize. Thus he asks "who is the black boy?" Get over it. While I'm aware that 'boy' can and has been used as hate speech (it dates back way before `70's sit-coms like `KRP, by the way), I don't think that was the case here. But, maybe I'm wrong.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:23 (twenty years ago)

But nobody objects to calling Siouxie a girl? xpost

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

sorry to offend, but am genuinely curious as to her identity.
but please, also to continue discuss race/gender politics,
appropriations of symbols, fashions -- purpose to break
dominant paradigms or purely aesthetic?
i.e., what is significance of swastika girl/black boy dichotomy?
wherein swastika informs identity of girl (siouxie)
and boy (as gender transgression, not as antebellum master-slave
derrogative) informs black (unidentified) and dynamic of
swastika/black juxtoposition, forming semiotic pyramid?

― grundymania, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

"Boys, boys, all type of boys/Black, white, Puerto Rican, Chinese boys."

― merritt ranew (merritt), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:32 (twenty years ago)

I thought this was going to be a thread by ron atkinson.

― RJG (RJG), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

lil arthur carlson wasn't a girl! he was a fascist though. johnny had him pegged from the get go.

― j blount (papa la bas), Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:37 (twenty years ago)

ourwulliewallpaper, thank you for reminding me that song existed.

― modernaire, I wanna be, Wednesday, 13 April 2005 23:41 (twenty years ago)

a) it is patronizing b) everyone please shut the fuck up, I have to get ready to mee the other three black rock chicks in the world...ever. that is all

― Morley Timmons (Donna Brown), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.humanities-interactive.org/literature/bonfire/400/013d.jpg

"these puerto rican girls are just dyin' to meet you"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:36 (twenty years ago)

I think her name is Simone Thomas.

― Love at the Pier (Arthur), Thursday, 14 April 2005 04:53 (twenty years ago)

Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people".
The next poster even agreed w/ him.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

I saw In the Heat of the Night last night.
Christ white americans suck.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:04 (twenty years ago)

are you momus?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:05 (twenty years ago)

on a good day.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:07 (twenty years ago)

you didn't have to use your ak?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:09 (twenty years ago)

It's funny that the conflict here is about the use of the word "boy", as opposed to the use of the word "black".

― lil Bobby Hutton (Bobby Peru), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:10 (twenty years ago)

bobby seale ain't little.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 05:12 (twenty years ago)

One of Australia's longest running indigenous rock bands, Coloured Stone, have a song called 'Black Boy'. Did they know they were offending our white American friends?

― moley, Thursday, 14 April 2005 07:22 (twenty years ago)

Well, I thought she was a girl.

― mark grout (mark grout), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:27 (twenty years ago)

It is also disingenuous to object to the use of the word "boy" when certain prominent female ILXors use it routinely on these boards.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 14 April 2005 08:29 (twenty years ago)

If the original poster had used the word "guy" rather than boy you can bet the US boys(save Alex) would have no problem with it cos its..y'know, US-centric.

― Frogman Henry, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:15 (twenty years ago)

Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people".
The next poster even agreed w/ him.
-- Masked Gazza (m...), April 14th, 2005.

Indeed. I wonder if I could get away with my sig being god I hate black people. Let's try...

― god I hate people who are so desperate to prove a point, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:41 (twenty years ago)

Close enough

― harveyw (harveyw), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:42 (twenty years ago)

kinda looks like ninah cheery

ninah cheery? do you mean neneh cherry? she really doesn't look anything like her. but then i did obsess over neneh and would stare for days on end at the raw like sushi cover. :-)

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:47 (twenty years ago)

What's amazing about that picture is that Siouxsie then looks like Michael Parkinson now.

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:51 (twenty years ago)

if i squint my eyes she actually looks like spike. god, i do need to kick that buffy addiction....

― nathalie doing a soft foot shuffle (stevie nixed), Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:54 (twenty years ago)

It's a gogeous photo, isn't it. Six cheeky faces, all in a row.

― moley, Thursday, 14 April 2005 09:59 (twenty years ago)

One said fuck and over we go!

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:02 (twenty years ago)

"I think her name is Simone Thomas."

That's definitely not Simone Thomas.

I still think her name's Debbie. Not to be confused with Debbie Juvenile, who was one of the Bromley Contingent with Suzy (sic) and Spunker (as Severin was known in those days).

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:06 (twenty years ago)

"Interesting how no-one's called out mr "god i hate british people"."

Being British we're all routinely filled with so much self-loathing that you couldn't possibly hate us any more than we already hate ourselves, so it's just more water off a duck's back really.

If it helps 'though, sometimes I think I hate Septics even more than I hate my fellow Limeys.

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:37 (twenty years ago)

f the original poster had used the word "guy" rather than boy you can bet the US boys(save Alex) would have no problem with it cos its..y'know, US-centric.

Hey, DICK, I wasn't the one who had a problem with the word "boy."

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 14 April 2005 14:20 (twenty years ago)

Did someone have a point, or are we just resorting to insults?

― Christ Americans are such fuckjars, Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:06 (twenty years ago)

She is Bob Dylan's inner black woman.

― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

See, Grundymania isn't racist, just annoying in that post-graduate kind of way.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:08 (twenty years ago)

SORRY TO INTERRUPT THE PC WHINING, BUT I THOUGHT MAYBE I'D ANSWER THE QUESTION AT HAND

Often misquoted, this is an accurate transcription of the interview which went out live on 1 December 1976.

The original Sex Pistols line-up are seated - from left to right - Johnny Rotten, Paul Cook, Steve Jones and Glen Matlock. Bill Grundy sits on their left. Standing behind the Pistols are the punk hangers-on from the Bromley Contingent, Siouxsie Sioux, Steve Severin, Simon Barker and 'Simone'.

Grundy introduces the band to the cameras.

GRUNDY (To camera) They are punk rockers. The new craze, they tell me. Their heroes? Not the nice, clean Rolling Stones... you see they are as drunk as I am... they are clean by comparison. They're a group called The Sex Pistols, and I am surrounded by all of them...

JONES (Reading the autocue) In action!

GRUNDY Just let us see The Sex Pistols in action. Come on kids...

[Film of The Sex Pistols in action is shown; then back to Grundy.]

GRUNDY I am told that that group (hits his knee with sheaf of papers) have received forty thousand pounds from a record company. Doesn't that seem, er, to be slightly opposed to their anti-materialistic view of life?

MATLOCK No, the more the merrier.

GRUNDY Really?

MATLOCK Oh yeah.

GRUNDY Well tell me more then.

JONES We've fuckin' spent it, ain't we?

GRUNDY I don't know, have you?

MATLOCK Yeah, it's all gone.

GRUNDY Really?

JONES Down the boozer.

GRUNDY Really? Good Lord! Now I want to know one thing...

MATLOCK What?

GRUNDY Are you serious or are you just making me, trying to make me laugh?

MATLOCK No, it's all gone. Gone.

GRUNDY Really?

MATLOCK Yeah.

GRUNDY No, but I mean about what you're doing.

MATLOCK Oh yeah.

GRUNDY You are serious?

MATLOCK Mmm.

GRUNDY Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Brahms have all died...

ROTTEN They're all heroes of ours, ain't they?

GRUNDY Really... what? What were you saying, sir?

ROTTEN They're wonderful people.

GRUNDY Are they?

ROTTEN Oh yes! They really turn us on.

JONES But they're dead!

GRUNDY Well suppose they turn other people on?

ROTTEN (Under his breath) That's just their tough shit.

GRUNDY It's what?

ROTTEN Nothing. A rude word. Next question.

GRUNDY No, no, what was the rude word?

ROTTEN Shit.

GRUNDY Was it really? Good heavens, you frighten me to death.

ROTTEN Oh alright, Siegfried...

GRUNDY (Turning to those standing behind the band) What about you girls behind?

MATLOCK He's like yer dad, inni, this geezer?

GRUNDY Are you, er...

MATLOCK Or your granddad.

GRUNDY (To Sioux) Are you worried, or are you just enjoying yourself?

SIOUX Enjoying myself.

GRUNDY Are you?

SIOUX Yeah.

GRUNDY Ah, that's what I thought you were doing.

SIOUX I always wanted to meet you.

GRUNDY Did you really?

SIOUX Yeah.

GRUNDY We'll meet afterwards, shall we? (Sioux does a camp pout)

JONES You dirty sod. You dirty old man!

GRUNDY Well keep going, chief, keep going. Go on, you've got another five seconds. Say something outrageous.

JONES You dirty bastard!

GRUNDY Go on, again.

JONES You dirty fucker! (Laughter from the group)

GRUNDY What a clever boy!

JONES What a fucking rotter.

GRUNDY Well, that's it for tonight. The other rocker Eamonn, and I'm saying nothing else about him, will be back tomorrow. I'll be seeing you soon, I hope I'm not seeing you [the band] again. From me, though, goodnight.

The cheesy signature tune plays and the credits roll. Rotten looks at his watch, Jones starts dancing to the music, and Grundy mutters an off-mic 'Oh shit!' to himself.
The story made the front pages of the following morning's newspapers, amidst howls of outrage, including the now infamous Daily Mirror headline - 'THE FILTH AND THE FURY!'. The Pistols had cemented their place in television folklore.

― AMERICANBRITISH69SELFSUCK (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:18 (twenty years ago)

I did not know "boy" was offensive. How silly. Pops Staples (AKA the Uncle Remus of Soul) has a song called "Black Boy" but I have never paid much attention.

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

http://www.thebansheesandothercreatures.co.uk/prerecord6.jpg

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:27 (twenty years ago)

Yeah, for real, it's the first google result for "Sex Pistols Grundy interview", guys.

― roxymuzak (roxymuzak), Thursday, 14 April 2005 15:30 (twenty years ago)

calling someone Uncle Remus is probably more offensive than calling them boy.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:26 (twenty years ago)

Stence OTM as usual.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:28 (twenty years ago)

calling someone chaka demus = calling them bwoy.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

f the original poster had used the word "guy" rather than boy you can bet the US boys(save Alex) would have no problem with it cos its..y'know, US-centric.
Hey, DICK, I wasn't the one who had a problem with the word "boy."

-- Alex in NYC (vassife...), April 14th, 2005.

Alex you dumbass, I was excluding you from the other posters on this threads cos you DIDN'T get het up about the original question like some kneejerk crazy. But hey, thanx for calling me a DICK.

― Masked Gazza, Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:37 (twenty years ago)

calling someone Uncle Remus is probably more offensive than calling them boy.

I'd like to see you test this theory out in public.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:40 (twenty years ago)

i love the brits trashing americans for not being as bigoted as them - way to shame us!

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:41 (twenty years ago)

um walter do you know what "song of the south" is? do the words "b'rer rabbit" mean anything to you?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

"tar baby".

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

I recall Frank Pembleton being extremely pissed off (um, well more so) when Roger Gaffney called him "boy". Yeah, that's my only frame of reference.

― alex in montreal (alex in montreal), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:44 (twenty years ago)

many things are offensive, duh.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

Alex you dumbass, I was excluding you from the other posters on this threads cos you DIDN'T get het up about the original question like some kneejerk crazy. But hey, thanx for calling me a DICK.

Sorry, I read that as that I would get upset if he'd used the word "guy". Not sure why that upset me. Too much coffee. Apologies to you.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I know what Song of the South is. Do you know the connotations of calling a black man "boy?" My point was that the idea that one racial epithet is somehow "better" than another is absurd.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:54 (twenty years ago)

i love the brits trashing americans for not being as bigoted as them - way to shame us!

Britain isn't as bigotted because it has less racially abusive terms for blacks? Thanks for that one James.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 14 April 2005 16:57 (twenty years ago)

"boy" isn't inherently racist, depends on the tone/usage/context. "uncle remus" has more of a fixed meaning. "jackass" does too, jackass.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:00 (twenty years ago)

dom the next time an american starts a thread called 'who's the paki that does that galang song?' let me know how many other americans rush in to defend them and attack anyone who finds bigotry offensive even if it's 'just a bit of fun'.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/pictures/lame.png

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.mattscdsingles.com/acatalog/26346.jpg

― $V£N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

so, are we saying that different words and terms have different connotations in different contexts? or that certain terms are universal? or apply in multiple situations?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:07 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 48,800,000 for boy

How many of these usages do you believe are in a racially abusive context, James?

Results 1 - 10 of about 711,000 for paki

How many of these usages do you believe are in a racially abusive context, James?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

im also curious, regarding the term 'faggot', in this regard

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:10 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 10 of about 279,000 for "black boy"

― $Vï¿½N! (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

wheres grundymania from? i got the impression that english wasnt their first language. i think that means that the niceities of what is and isnt appropriate language, or politically correct apply less, or rather that you should be less quick to trash people for not recognising things that you hold to be self evidently offensive.

xpost, grundymania is american? if so then i guess my view is incorrect. but i am oof the opinion that many statements such as "X is offensive, or incorrect (or whatever) ,everyone knows that" are isguided. you should presume that every thinks, or knows everything that you do.

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

well dom if this thread is one of the results for 'boy' that's at least one.

― j blount (papa la bas), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

wow this thread is so dumb.

― charleston charge (chaki), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

uh-huh that's right

― Fischerspooner (blueski), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "who is the black boy".

http://www.thedmonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/10/23/3f977f5b36568

― mississippi not racist at all, Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:19 (twenty years ago)

http://www.davegoodman.co.uk/Dave%20Goodman/Daves%20Book/1976/apr%201976.htm
The Bromley Contingent' with Simon Barker, Jordan, Susan 'Siouxsie Sue', Ballon and Steve 'Two Tone' Severin, Sue Catwoman, Marco Pirroni, Debbie 'Juvenile' Wilson, Tracy O'Keefe R.I.P. Afro-Carribean Simone.

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

different words and terms have different connotations in different contexts, yes.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:21 (twenty years ago)

Bromley Êîíòèíãåíò ñ Simon Barker, Steve John Bailey (Îïóñòîøåíèå, Severin), Susan Janet Ballion (Siouxsie Ñèó), Âîçáóæäàòü ñóäåáíîå äåëî Lucas (Catwoman), Debbie Wilson (Íåáîëüøèå Debs), William Øèðîêèé (Èäîë Äóáèíêà), Simone Thomas, Tracey o'Keefe (Þíûé) è Sharon Hayman áûë îò òîé æå ïîèìåíîâàííîé îáëàñòè â ÞÃÎ-ÂÎÑÒÎÊ Ëîíäîíà.

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 17:27 (twenty years ago)

i think the thing that is interesting is whether the language and syntax of country A should be judged by the standards in country A, or country B. or, if we should attempt to judge by something more common, or universal? and, whether universalism, should we apply it, flattens out nuance, creating a situation, if you will, where 2 different countries might even speak the same language, yet apply differing interpretations of it?

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:02 (twenty years ago)

just cut to the wilde quote already.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

Exactly. All 'god I hate British people' is doing is projecting US racial sensitivities onto someone from a different country. In Britain, that phrase would never be taken as racist.

Incidentally, what would an American call a young male child of African origin then?

― Si Carter (Si Carter), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

stence, i couldnt remember it!

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:04 (twenty years ago)

"whassup little man?"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:07 (twenty years ago)

well, actually, si, im not entirely convinced the phrase wouldn't be taken as racist here. i mean, the person in question isnt 10 years old! i think, that phraseology would also be considered slightly dubious here in england. its certainly something i'd be surprised to hear,in this way

yes, i know this sort of contradicts what ive said before, but i think that althought the contexts are different, they're not opposites either

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:09 (twenty years ago)

maybe it's shaw tho, i always forget.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:10 (twenty years ago)

I wouldnt have batted an eyelid, if the word 'lad' had been used, as is suitable well into 20s, and doesnt carry the belittling sense that 'boy' can be used for

― charltonlido (gareth), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:11 (twenty years ago)

garcon?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:13 (twenty years ago)

american english is a different language. or at least one day they will have diverged enough for people to stop assumign that words should apply r have the meaning or anything across the two so tiresomely (eg "hahaha why cant americans spell "colour"" etc etc ad fucking nauseam

― ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:14 (twenty years ago)

Who is the coloured bloke in the sex pistols grundy interview?

― how bout this, Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:16 (twenty years ago)

I don't think the situation is that complex. Grundymania apparently innocently used a term and several people pointed out that it could be seen as being offensive. Grundymania apologized, no harm was done, and that should have been end of the story.

So why do some people feel the desire to defend the use of the term? What is the point in getting into a big discussion over whether or not people should be offended or if the term is offensive or not in some different context? Is it that hard to avoid using it?

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:17 (twenty years ago)

who's defending it?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

Who is that little negro geezer in the sex pistols grundy interview?

― or maybe, Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:18 (twenty years ago)

HAY GUYS I THINK HER NAEM IS SIMONE THOMAS FROM BROMLYE CONTINGENT

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:20 (twenty years ago)

NIGRA PREASE

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:22 (twenty years ago)

http://www.artbydelpesco.com/image/img/imgndp02.jpg

― Amon (eman), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:23 (twenty years ago)

Americans be gettin' their knickers in a twist

― pit, Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:31 (twenty years ago)

who's defending it?

I did not know "boy" was offensive. How silly.

It is also disingenuous to object to the use of the word "boy" when certain prominent female ILXors use it routinely on these boards.

Is "black boy" honestly an offensive term?

Get over it.

But nobody objects to calling Siouxie a girl?

oh, how i love the american white boy crusade for racial justice

etc.

― walter kranz (walterkranz), Thursday, 14 April 2005 18:51 (twenty years ago)

Who is that adorable pickaninny in the sex pistols grundy interview?

Who is the young male child of African origin in the sex pistols grundy interview?

― 2 more tries, Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

Oh don't avoid words. What a completely dumb idea.

― David Allen (David Allen), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:00 (twenty years ago)

avoiding british twits seems like a good idea tho.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:08 (twenty years ago)

"i can kill with a word"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

"we fremen have a saying: 'dune was created to test the faithful. one cannot go against the will of god.'"

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:12 (twenty years ago)

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHEN DID YOU ALL BECOME FUCKING IDIOTS?

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:25 (twenty years ago)

the second we started posting to ilx.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:28 (twenty years ago)

CURSE YOU ILX

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:29 (twenty years ago)

it is a curse, yes.

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 April 2005 19:30 (twenty years ago)

I wouldnt have batted an eyelid, if the word 'lad' had been used, as is suitable well into 20s, and doesnt carry the belittling sense that 'boy' can be used for

Yes, that's probably fair enough, I'm probably biased in that I work with young people and hear that phrase every day without anyone becoming inflamed by it. I can see why it could be construed as belittling but to give you an example, I have a lad from South Africa that started in my class yesterday and all my kids said (along the lines of) 'is that new black boy coming into our class sir?'. You get my drift.

― Si Carter (Si Carter), Thursday, 14 April 2005 22:23 (twenty years ago)

"One of the contingent was Simone Thomas. 'I was 16 at the time. My life revolved around David Bowie and Roxy Music and dressing up and going to gigs. I'd met Siouxsie at a Roxy Concert. She was from the same part of London as me and she started going out with Steve Severin....we became known as the Bromley Contingent after the Sex Pistols played Orpington College....we were the first fans in fact.'"

http://www.punk77.co.uk/groups/bromley2.htm

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:19 (twenty years ago)

And according to that link, Stewart, Debbie was a white girl.

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:21 (twenty years ago)

Played violin in the Banshees for a couple months...

http://www.punk77.co.uk/wip/simonethomas.htm

― Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 14 April 2005 23:23 (twenty years ago)

"And according to that link, Stewart, Debbie was a white girl."

Debbie Wilson aka Debbie Juvenile was indeed a white girl who later earned a living as a prositute, "glamour model" and porn star and (as I though I'd already made clear) that's not her in the picture either!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:20 (twenty years ago)

For the record, Walter, I wasn't defending grundymania's use of the expression "black boy" when I observed that nobody seemed to object to calling Siouxie a "girl"; I was just wondering out loud why one expression seemed to offend so much more than the other.

― Paul in Santa Cruz (Paul in Santa Cruz), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:33 (twenty years ago)

Fwiw Stephen Colegrave & Chris Sullivan, in their nice big (and horribly un-punk) coffe-table book "Punk" reckon that's Lynda (sic) Ashby (p.162 for any other saddoes who own it) - but that ain't Linda Ashby (who's also white) either!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:41 (twenty years ago)

My recollection of Simone Thomas is that she was a lot taller, substantially vampier, and no-one would ever have have mistaken her for a boy!

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:57 (twenty years ago)

My sources confirm simone thomas as well, if anyone still cares.

And I don't think that she looks much like a boy from what I can tell from the photo...

― John Justen (johnjusten), Friday, 15 April 2005 00:59 (twenty years ago)

x-post (I swear)

And according to that link, Stewart, Debbie was a white girl.

Oh, sorry, please cross that out. You already said "not to be confused with Debbie Juvenile."

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 15 April 2005 02:02 (twenty years ago)

I think a lot of people would care who she was. She is, if I'm not mistaken, the first black punk rocker, yes?

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 15 April 2005 02:04 (twenty years ago)

People at this forum, for instance...

http://www.afropunk.com/community/

I emailed Steven Severin asking if he knew what had become of Simone Thomas, though I should have asked first if she's the one in the videotape.

http://ub3.homepagetools.com/sseverin/UltraBoard.pl?Action=ShowBoard&Board=mouthtomouth&Idle=&Sort=&Order=&Session=

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 15 April 2005 02:09 (twenty years ago)

(I hope the Afro-Punk documentary expands to include more of the UK history, but it's really good nonetheless...)

http://www.afropunk.com

― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 15 April 2005 02:52 (twenty years ago)

si, are you in london?

it strikes me that 'boy' is pretty london at the moment, being the top boy and all that. i suddenly thought of people on the 253 saying the thread title, and it didnt sound weird at all. whereas, thinking about it in a yorkshire context it sounded more dubious.

never mind national differences, what about regional?!@?!

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 15 April 2005 04:22 (twenty years ago)

Australians might remember the time Bert Newton offended Muhammed Ali by saying "I like the boy" on-air after an interview. Ali was pretty riled up about it...

― Seuss, Friday, 15 April 2005 07:00 (twenty years ago)

never mind national differences, what about regional?!@?!

I'm in the Midlands. You're right though, thinking about it in a Yorkshire accent....!

― Si Carter (Si Carter), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:05 (twenty years ago)

In Estuary at moment, calling someone "the boy" is a compliment. "He's the boy at the moment". Perhaps this is a "bomb/the bomb"/"shit/the shit" confusion though.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:17 (twenty years ago)

calling someone Uncle Remus is probably more offensive than calling them boy

Yes, it was my idea of a joke. Heavens!

But it did set me to wondering why Booker T and the MGs would do such a RACIALLY OFFENSIVE tune as 'Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah'. Surely they must have known that they were playing with fire? ~

― PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:26 (twenty years ago)

So, who is the girl standing between Siouxsie and Severin/Spunker in the Bill Grundy interview?

― mark grout (mark grout), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:44 (twenty years ago)

Billy Idol

― Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Friday, 15 April 2005 07:45 (twenty years ago)

Hey, I bet 3/4 of the Limeys who rang in to complain about the Grundy program were griping about seeing a black person on their teevee

― An American. You know, the guys w/ good ol' bouy GEORGE BUSH for president?, Friday, 15 April 2005 07:55 (twenty years ago)

'boy' is far more offensive in the states than in the UK. In fact, despite charltonlido's assertions to the contrary, I think the vast majority of people in the UK would not understand 'boy' as a demeaning or potentially racist term at all.

― debden, Friday, 15 April 2005 08:07 (twenty years ago)

which makes the crusaders for justice upthread quite funny. racist wrongdoers: fear the deadly sting of our cultural ignorance and complacency!

― debden, Friday, 15 April 2005 08:10 (twenty years ago)

well, im not asserting to the contrary, im more saying its a sort of borderline case, one that might have become so over time (and the reason for that might, be our collective english awareness on some level that its a loaded term in america, rather than for its own use here, again i think thats symptomatic of american cultural imperialism/media-dominance, where something can become potentially dubious in a way that it wouldn't have been before)

of course, as has been stated upthread, the irony is that 'boy' is used as a positive in london at the moment,

― charltonlido (gareth), Friday, 15 April 2005 08:34 (twenty years ago)

yes, i would not use the term on ilx as i know it's offensive to americans. the reason i know it's offensive to americans is that i used to culturally edit text from brit english to american english for a publishing house and 'boy', -especially when appended to a racial signifier- was something to avoid. but before then i had no idea: it actually quite surprised me.

i believe the term is sensitive because it was originally used towards slaves by their 'masters' in the american south as a denial of their manhood and/or humanity.

― debden, Friday, 15 April 2005 08:39 (twenty years ago)

Yes, I heard that too.

Australians might remember the time Bert Newton offended Muhammed Ali by saying "I like the boy" on-air after an interview. Ali was pretty riled up about it...
-- Seuss

I do remember - actually, that was the first time many of us became aware it was an offensive word in the US. Outside the States, there are no racist connotations whatsoever to the word 'boy'. Also, over here, 'bastard' is a term of endearment. Plus, if you get punched and have your jaw dislocated, that means 'I love you, mate'.

― moley, Friday, 15 April 2005 08:41 (twenty years ago)

sorry, i feel like a small terrier worrying a bone, but

until 'paki' becomes a non-offensive word in US english usage describing a young male, this is a bullshit equivalence. pure sophistry.

― debden, Friday, 15 April 2005 08:44 (twenty years ago)

"In Australia, however, putting your empty glass on the bar counter upside down indicates that you believe you could win a fight with anybody in the bar".

(and the reason for that might, be our collective english awareness on some level that its a loaded term in america, rather than for its own use here, again i think thats symptomatic of american cultural imperialism/media-dominance, where something can become potentially dubious in a way that it wouldn't have been before)