In Praise Of : New Order's 'Movement'

More thoughts on this later, but watching Tavas Shevchenko for the first time recently brought so much that was on this album to new life for me.

Dan to thread immediately.

But yeah, praise thread so I'll stop my complaints here.

No!

Greil Marcus did a write-up for an '81 concert in "In the Fascist Bathroom" that nails exactly how NO stood in relation to their past and what their music suggested for the future.

Yeah, I'd agree. It's a stunner. Damn, I want to have the album to hear today!

Reading the opening post to this thread almost made me do a little chair dance. Then I thought about "Senses" and I did do a little chair dance.

I saw Taras Schevchenko last year and thought the music was nice but the band wasn't much to look at despite their intense circles, although it's always nice when someone doesn't posture and just plays.

"Unknown Pleasures" wasn't 40 minutes of production genius?

Several ILM regulars have been very vocal about "Movement" being their fave NO album!

"Blue Monday"? "Confusion"?

Most of us are on this thread!

I would imagine that Sumner felt a lot of pressure to emulate Curtis.

Movement is not just my favourite New Order album but my favourite album of all time. It took several plays for me to really connect with it, though and even then I didn't realize just how strongly I felt about it until about 10 years had passed. When I hear it today it still hits me exactly the same way as it did 20 years ago. It's lost none of its power, and sounds like it comes from a different planet: a barren, frozen landscape at permanent dusk.

While I accept that it can't help but be in his shadow - the phrase 'memorial album' sounds like a hollow tribute, trying but failing to *be as good as* JD. My whole point is that musically it hasn't got much to do with JD, it's a NEW sound.

Also don't underestimate the resolve of these guys - they were strong enough to carry on and make something entirely new. They were out and gigging again 3 months after Ian died.

Nearly.

Bummed - no. Sounds like they're playing at the back of a giant aircraft hanger. I am warming to it slightly, but I think MH was over the hill by then.

Nearly.

Sorry to stray off-topic, but where do you think Hannett misses the mark on UP, Dr. C? I'll wager a guess that you'll say "Interzone", and maybe "Wilderness".

While comparing it to Joy Division is inevitable, it often seems like people deride it for sounding "too much" like Joy Division - as if it weren't within New Order's right to do so. I mean, 3/4 of the band co-wrote and played on every recording of each Joy Division song. Ian Curtis was not Joy Division any more than Peter Hook's bass was Joy Division.

Anyway.

I view Movement as a natural progression from Closer, "Atmosphere" and "Love Will Tear Us Apart." I love Hannett's production, though the band wasn't pleased with the final result (to say the least, it wasn't an easy album to make) despite it not sounding terribly different than the Peel session versions of some of these tracks.

I don't know what to say about the songs which hasn't already been said. Movement makes me want to walk after dark under the cold glare of streetlights - a lot of shadows with sudden bursts of blinding brightness.

My other JD weirdness is that I prefer the BBC recordings to any of the others--but I actually know a few others who concur with that one.

UP is a fine production - I just think Movement is the one production you'd play to someone if you wanted to convince them of his greatness.

Funny how Hooky didn't sing any more in New Order. He's superb on Movement. I've just been listening to the Ceremony demo with Steve Morris singing! He was OK too.

Thursday May 5 at The Hiro Ballroom (Maritime Hotel)

Girls & Boys and GBH presents

NEW ORDER (DJ set) featuring Peter Hook and the Official Concert After
Party along with DJs Alex English, Alex Malfunction and
Shawn Christiansen of stellarstarr*

Hosted by Filter Magazine, + 1, and Cornerstone

Limited Tickets $8 on sale starting Wednesday April 27 at www.GBH.tv
or GBH box office(open 12pm-6pm)153 W. 27 St. Ste 1107
bet 6 and 7aves.

$12 at the door

Doors Open 10pm-4am

Hiro Ballroom 363 W. 16 St and 9 Ave

are you talking about Movement? or something else?

Hence this album, without any pomp, any affectedness, made of transparent songs, all built on three chords, or very nearly. The clarity of inspiration and the - apparent - ease of some arrangements of the record will cause - or has caused, as they probably have all bought it, a serious surprise for those who considered Joy Division only as a gloomy gothic band. Starting from Joy Division's intense and
groping lucidity, New Order has reached a plain and appeased clairvoyance. Ian Curtis's terrorized voice, while breaking the organized din of the band, gave to the release the bitter taste of a fall.
Absent and serene, Albrecht's voice, mixed as if from a distance, seems to harmonioulsy and willingly find its place in the thickness of the whole lot.

The unofficial EP that was available at New Rose last fall, already featured the four best songs of "Movement" : "Dreams Never End", "Truth", "Senses" and "I.C.B.". I must confess that it is the first time for me, that the words "hypnotic", "under a spell", or even "oriental" have an entirely positive meaning to describe music. These tracks filled with salient nervures, made of a miraculously pacified tension, condemn the more and more boring and overestimated The Cure to the incurable autistic lodge they belong to. Cure provoke a smug apathy in their audience : they are Madras Radio, the
snake-charmer radio. New Order are million miles away from Cure's whining complacency, in its grey emptiness. Things are limpid, open, clear, cut out, sharp. Joy Division's music was nyctalopic, it could see with a supernatural accuracy in the darkness of inner chaos. New Order freely sails in the full light of day. The dizziness created by "Movement" originates from this extreme precision, from this pure clarity and brightness : guitars with geometrical arpeggios, pour into a naked wilderness, irrigated by a dense and liquid rhythmic basis, where drums clashes burst out, never misplaced, and
furious electronic squeak blasts hiss. Its pictorial equivalent would be Mondrian's geometrical strict and hallucinated compositions.

Everywhere I see people giving this record a chilly reception or even ignoring it. People are put out because it is too simple, not mysterious or enigmatic - or God knows what else - enough. It displeases because it is too restrained. But I would not trade this intense moderation and this cleared emotion for anything in the world, all that mediocrity, all these conceited guys we had to endure for years, with their artistic pretentions. With their permission, they are no Otis Redding - that demands a lot. It demands a lot to be New Order too.

for me, "denial" is the absolute be-all and end-all: my love of post-rock and post-metal has its genesis in the first time i ever heard this track. it takes my breath away every single time.

(xpost)

I assume you mean from the Western Works demo? I'm glad you brought that up actually because this thread made me think of that song "Homage" in the sense that when people say Movement lacks something because it's a "transitional" album, etc. I would say it's "Homage" where they sound rough like they're just getting their bearings rather than on the album itself. It's a good thing they scrapped that song because as much of a fan as I am I've never been able to see the worth in it. I haven't played the Western Works demo in a long time actually because I recall the sound quality being atrocious, but I've pulled it out just now and yes the overall impression is still that they just didn't have their act together yet, it's awful really. Steven's vocals are okay, but only just. He has no problem hitting the notes, but has a pretty high pitched voice compared to the others and (understandbly) lacks confidence.

I like the fact that you've called attention to Hooky's vocals. It's not something I've really given a lot of thought to, actually, but it struck me today what a superb job he really did of it. It's also interesting to revisit the more restrained and consistent approach he takes on the studio version of "Doubts Even Here" in comparison to the live versions I've become accustomed to where he's liable to use a bit more force and volume.

I was very convinced by mark s's argument that Closer is really the first New Order album (versus Movement being a JD hangover). The two albums seem very connected to me, rather than there being some sort of radical break.

Okay so I'm cheating and listening to the Peel Session versions now (that version of "I.C.B." in particular is absolute godhead) but I still say, even after all these years that this album is my favourite of all time. I didn't expect to come to that conclusion so late in the game, really. But here it is again in my life and I just know music never really gets any better than this album for me. Ever. Dare I say even Everything's Gone Green cowers below it?

When I hear this album I just feel like I'm home. That's all I know. It makes me feel like I've come home to something.

Everything's Gone Green has been my favourite song of all time for about 10 years now, but after listening to this album heavily for the past week, (Inspired by the talk of an ILXor djing a Halloween party with Movement and nothing else) Chosen Time could very nearly top it. Since nobody has ever re-edited it and doubled it in length I may have to give it a go myself.

there are some wonderful live performances through 82 that capture the vibe of those early synth experiments like EGG and Chosen Time.

xpost

Do it! I want to hear this. Chosen time has always seemed like an underappreciated gem in their back catalogue (though I know there are people who'll make the same claim for every album track they've got). One of the more successful productions on 'Movement', IMO, with fantastic drums and that incredible outro.

Have just been youtubing looking for some of those wonderful live performances! Also thanks to this thread will be ripping Taras DVD to mp3.

xpost once again

Is 'Chosen Time' the missing link between traditional drums-guitar-bass-synth stuff like 'Procession' and the first experiments with letting a sequencer lead the way, like 'EGG'? Seems so.

it's very fast. i'd say it's nearly 140bpm. high 130s for sure. would make a compelling dnb remix if done in a style similar to black secret technology.

Track down the bootleg of their gig at the Haçienda, 26 June 1982 — VERY fast. Not the best recording I've heard, but the band absolutely tear through the material. 'Denial' is punishing.

I guess I could post the files somewhere, if anyone's interested.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carnage2/204856356/

This gig!

Oh, people would be interested!

I'm working on it :)

I will work on the re-edit. Might take a while though, don't want to accidentally make my favourite song suck.

I guess I could post the files somewhere, if anyone's interested

FUCK yes.

Chosen time seems to be at 162bpm!

Wow.

Cerysmatic Factory's info page

Seems that there's some confusion about what songs were played on the Haçienda's opening night, but here's the real setlist:

In a Lonely Place
Ultraviolence (power was cut during the gig, resumed after 20 minutes)
Ultraviolence (best performance I've ever heard)
Denial
The Village
We All Stand
Senses
Chosen Time
5-8-6/Temptation (a pretty sweet segue)

Percussion is overpowering and bass levels are way too high, but it's remarkably clear — I'd take something like this over a soundboard recording. Best listened to LOUD.

Can we post direct links to bootlegs here? It's ready.

DO IT!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/d44xo6

192 kbps AAC's from a friend 3-4 years ago. Wish I had the original source.

Millsner, you are an almighty dude. Thank you.

Wow, that is fast!

I just like having other people to gush over the songs with!

LOLing at Bernard singing 1 line falsetto during In A Lonely Place :)

I'm not going to get a chance to listen to this till tomorrow. But I genuinely cannot wait. I might get up early especially.

Haha, punter yelling "brilliant!" in the left channel around 3:40.

It's probably one of the 5 favourite bootlegs in my stash. I'm more than happy to share!

Excellent version of Denial, Steve playing unbelievably fast, synths sounding otherworldly, heavy echo on Bernard's vox

Amazing raspy / farty sawtooth bass on The Village. Cool proto lyrics too "It goes up, it goes down" Plus whooping.

It's always the live performances that remind me how kickass and heavy Senses is once it gets going.

Ha. Saw them a few times around then, even @ the Hacienda in what I RECALL as the Summer of 82, but maybe it was 83. Every time I've seen them they've gone on about an hour late, and then, every time I've seen them, somewhere in the set I would think to myself, this may be one of the greatest rock bands ever.

That being said, I don't think of myself as a huge fan, and BTW, Bernard Sumner is a huge TWAT.

Thanks for the DL!

Have we polled this album? One of these records where each song seems to be my favorite when it plays. Right now it's 'Denial'. I dunno if its my favoirte NO record but I don't think Bernard's guitar never sounded as good.

Ok no - The Him is my favorite!

Have we polled this album? One of these records where each song seems to be my favorite when it plays. Right now it's 'Denial'. I dunno if its my favoirte NO record but I don't think Bernard's guitar never sounded as good.

Sure Barney's a twat, but can you handle the MOVEMENT poll?

ICB Live 1981

Chosen Time Live 1981

I'm working on posting a New Order 1982/83 set of live stuff here.Uploading as i type.Various sound quality but mostly soundboard.You could assemble your own live show out of it.Here's the tracks.

In a Lonely Place/Temptation/586/ICB/Leave Me Alone/Hurt(2 different versions by accident)/Chosen Time/Truth(2 versions again by mistake)/Confusion/Denial/Your Silent Face/Procession/Ceremony/Blue Monday/The Him/We All Stand/The Village/Age of Consent/Ultraviolence/When I'm With You(Sparks cover!!)/She's Lost Control(actually from 1985..i cheated)

These are warts & all versions & some of the songs are in the early stages of their development.Great stuff & i'll have them up sometime tonight using Divshare.

Thanks, will look forward to hearing those. And thanks also to brotherlovesdub for the videos.

Okay 3 folders 3 links 23 songs played live by New Order in 1982/83 in fair to excellent quality.No order to the folders i just bunched them together.And yes they played their early material really fast at times

http://www.divshare.com/download/6014801-102

http://www.divshare.com/download/6014602-0a7

http://www.divshare.com/download/6014212-bd9

Bought this on vinyl this week because Dr C is such a convincing apostle and i love other early new order. What put me off buying the album when I was a teenager was
a) the blurriness of the vocal presence down in the mix. This occurred for obvious reasons, the rest of the band lacked confidence after IC, but it can be offputting. Doubts Even Here is the strongest song in that sense, so it carries a greater emotional charge. The blurring effect of adding Gillian's voice keeps the mystery intact.
b) the density of sound. This is probably due to Hannett's production, brilliant though it is.
What happened around the time of Blue Monday and Power Corruption and Lies was the vocal line became clearer, with more confident melodies and lyrics, and the sound became more sparse; more empty spaces.
It remains a fascinating piece of work, and I especially love Dreams Never End, Chosen Time and Doubts Even Here. Intere4sting how if prefigures so much 80s indie work. Dreams Never End is the Cure's Inbetween Days, for instance.
I'm interested in what Dr C's other 2 favourite New Order tracks are? My money is on Ceremony and Everything's Gone Green.
I'm still more in love with PCL than Movement; it retains the experimentation that made their early work so great, but with the beginnings of that pop sensibility that took over later.

Wow, on the 1981 YouTube of chosen time above the music is perfect, and there is a great extended coda, but Barney's vocal is compellingly monotone. A real train wreck of a vocal, he looks so uncomfortable up there. Recommended.

Captain Groovy, not had a chance to listen to your links yet, but thanks for sharing.

I'm interested in what Dr C's other 2 favourite New Order tracks are? My money is on Ceremony and Everything's Gone Green.

I can't remember what they were when I wrote the above, but I'd probably go for those two. Ceremony would have to be the 3-piece original version of course!

Dr. C makes an appearance on this thread! Woohoo!

Dr. C I wore a green Ceremony T-shirt to the ACR gig last month. Did you know that?

Those are my fave songs of all time, EGG and Ceremony.

Jesus Christ of a MOTHER FUCKER that Chosen Time clip upthread.

Yeah, I just watched that Chosen Time clip about 5 times in a row. I remember discussing with Pashmina, yonks ago, what synth it was that they used on the early stuff - very clearly an ARP Quadra, so that's nice to have properly confirmed.

I can't remember what I've said on what thread, too many Movement threads going at once!

x-post : no Bimble I didn't know that, funnily enough :)

this album keeps getting better and better. the guitar in the first 30 seconds or so of Dreams Never End is stunning.

Dr C, good to hear from you. And Hi Bimble, I didn't know that either.
Have just spun the self-produced Temptation/Hurt, and it sounds heavy-handed by comparison.
Chosen Time has the womb-like warmth of Heart and Soul.

The 'slamming door' snare sound on Temptation is pretty irritating - yet it's still a fantastic track. The technology seems barely able to keep up with the bands ideas.

The production on Temptation is definitely half-assed, but not without charm. It's surprising how much better they got at it by PC&L and Blue Monday.

And I lurrrrve that 'slamming door' snare sound. The last 30 secs of Hurt are heaven.

Chosen Time could very nearly top it. Since nobody has ever re-edited it and doubled it in length I may have to give it a go myself.

― Home made ectoplasm (I am using your worlds), Thursday, December 4,

Please to make double-length, extended version of Chosen Time.

These threads are a joy. Not had a chance to catch up with all the clips and links, but the Hacienda gig is tremendous.

The technology seems barely able to keep up with the bands ideas

This has always, always been my point about New Order: that they were at their best when they were limited by the technology available, and had to work wonders/hit it with iron bars in order to make it work. And the hit-and-miss nature of the live performances just makes me love them -- the way they were -- even more. This, for instance:

is all over the fucking shop, yet it still brings a lump to my throat. There's an alchemy there; something so, so much greater than the sum of its parts -- despite, or maybe somehow because of, the fact that they were so obviously making up their entire career as they went along. And I guess what's so amazing isn't that they eventually lost it, but that they managed to maintain it for so long.

Mr. Christgau's review of Substance speaks to those points, grimly:

The secret of Bernard Albrecht's elementary vocals, Gillian Gilbert's two-finger exercises, Peter Hook's strummed bass, and the compressed physicality of Steve Morris's drums was never virtuosity--it was conception, timing, rapport, devotional concentration. Originally attracted to disco because it was trancelike, they broke through when they devised a system of kinetic percussion and hypnotic chants to keep themselves awake.

I don't think they've lost it, though; I like their newer albums a lot more than I like their mid-period albums (although favorite individual songs are largely from early-to-mid era).

Hahah: Dan, you are a man of almost impeccable taste, but you and I are never going to agree about those last two albums ;)

Irrespective of that, though: Hooky's increasingly petulant outbursts and the sense that the animosity between the two camps is permanent now does sadden me immensely.

HI DERE OTM. I know it's pretty unholy to say this around here but the last two albums would def be in my top 5 (alongside Movement, PCL and Technique)

If they churn out songs as good as "Morning, Night, and Day," "I Told You So," "Krafty," and "Someone Like You," I have no problem arguing that their recent albums are as uneven as the older ones.

I'd say I like them all consistently except Republic, which is half great (but I'll still take that).

(Is this where Alfred and I confess we're working on an EMP proposal about Mr. Sumner?)

I'd say I like them all consistently except Republic, which is half great (but I'll still take that)

Yeah I cant reall think of a bad NO album but for some reason Lowlife and Brotherhood (whih has a couple of my fave indiv NO songs) have never really clicked for me.

I adore Brotherhood -- but the first time I heard it, I thought it was such a heap of shit that I took it back to Blackpool music library without even bothering to make a copy of it :)

(Is this where Alfred and I confess we're working on an EMP proposal about Mr. Sumner?)

Shhh!

xpost - u mad etc.

That's why I keep hoping that one day I'll go back and listen to Get Ready and I'll love it. (As I've said elsewhere: there are individual songs on there that I adore. Sod it, I might dig it out this afternoon.)

Low-Life is most frustrating to me because some of the songs on it are easily among my favorite New Order songs ("Sunrise", "Elegia", "This Time Of Night") while I absolutely abhor others ("Face-Up") and really hate the versions of the singles on the album.

Oh, how I cannot bear the thought of you.

haha even reading those words makes me want to grind my teeth

Is nobody commenting on the live tracks posted by captain groovy? Highlights: a beastly version of "The Village" that's so great it's ridiculous, and an equally amazing version of "Truth". Thanks for posting them!

hi dere mostly otm again (tho I like Face Up). I do abhor the much revered Love Vigilantes though.

I like the idea of "Love Vigilantes" but I almost never want to listen to it.

You were me and I was you, this world of ours it felt brand new.

Is nobody commenting on the live tracks posted by captain groovy? Highlights: a beastly version of "The Village" that's so great it's ridiculous, and an equally amazing version of "Truth". Thanks for posting them!

Not had a chance to listen yet. They're sitting on my desktop, ready and waiting ...

I don't know it seems Bernie sometimes comes up with these very sing-songy vocal melodies which I systematically find annoying ("Every Second Counts" being the worst offender)

an equally amazing version of "Truth".

Listening to Get Ready. And, er ... it sounds a fuck of a sight better than I remember. Shit! Even 60MPH. Wow.

hahaha FINALLY

I'm amazing myself here. Up to Vicious Streak, and it's fucking great. (I always had a soft spot for Turn My Way, even though I think I'm alone with that.)

HOWEVER. I still fear Rock The Shack :)

No way, "Turn My Way" is great!

"Rock The Shack" isn't particularly special or anything but I find it to be fun. It's not a song I'd defend to the death, though.

Good times around the corner, good times 'round the corner, I swear it's gettin' warmer.

OK, Rock The Shack came on and sort of took me by surprise, and I found myself grooving away for a couple of seconds before becoming consciously aware of the fact I'm not meant to like it.

Fuck it, no, this really is OK. It's not great, but ... shit, did it always sound this good?

It did to me!

when I first heard the chorus of "Crystal," followed by Hooky's bass run, it was like the entire history of my adoration of New Order compressed into 45 seconds.

the premix version of Crystal has an additional bass riff that isn't included in the single or album version. FACT!

Grimly likes "Rock The Shack" now?!?!?!?!

Basically: yes. Honestly, this whole album sounds totally different today. It's full of melodies I've never picked out before; I've always heard it as being grey and sludgy and amorphous, but this is almost revelatory.

Obviously, I'll have to follow up with WFTSC, which I always thought was better but still bollocks in parts. I'm actually not quite as convinced I'll change my opinion about that one, basically because I've listened to it a lot more, and without nearly as much prejudice.

hey people we are in the movement thread here. as great as get ready and waiting for the sirens call are, and they are, movement is playing in a different league. in the joy division league. maybe not at the top. but not at the bottom neither.

^ Yes, absolutely.

movement is playing in a different league. in the joy division league

Are you implying that Joy Division is superior to New Order?

yes, i am. if i had to choose between joy division and new order i would go for joy division. and you?

Are you insane? Joy Division, as good as they were, were pretty much a one-trick pony. It's like... would you rather have BLACK AND WHITE or SPARKLING RAINBOW TECHNICOLOUR SPANGLES OF IRRIDESCENCE?

I'd quite contentedly go the rest of my life without ever hearing a Joy Division album. But life without New Order would not be worth living.

So will this ensuing discussion be more Kirk/Picard or Joel/Mike?

add Ceremony and Procession to the 81/82 FACTUS8 EP and you're left with a collection that rivals or surpasses any collection of Joy Division tunes.

Who the hell are Joel and Mike?

'In the not-too-distant future...'

I mean, we're talking about THE BERNARD.

Who pretty much pwns everything in the history of ever.

I mean, remember when I couldn't decide between the Velvet Underground and Hawkwind? If New Order had been in that contest, I wouldn't have even hesitated. (That was not a suggestion, Kerr.)

It had to be done, I guess...

Joy Division vs. New Order

Christ. It's like being in Dodgy Malcolm's second-hand shop in Layton, circa 1990, all over again :)

TO THE POLL!

sorry about the pedestrian question but in which of the three files is that version? honestly i haven't got the space on my hd for half a gig of new order live stuff.

I already combined everything into one bigass folder ... but I think it was originally in the third file (flac format, running time 4:02). I think the second, much faster version of "Truth" was in the first file.

I'm listening to it again as I write this -- ffs, this is just SAVAGE, maybe the heaviest performance I've ever heard from New Order. It's like proto black metal or something.

too many clicks. too many bullshit ads. thanks anyway.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxpost but Grimly - do check out the 'In Sessions' version of "Rock the Shack" (w/o Bobby G.) - closest they've sounded to JD in recent years and that's really how I got into that song

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/akadaver/bernard-sumner-1-sized.jpg

"Pass the Pernod, thanks."

OK, I'm going through my collection to find more 81-82 gigs. Hearing these songs live is where it's at.

This one's GREAT! Stokvishal, Arnhem in '82. The New Order Gigography claims it's the last gig where they played an all-'Movement'-era set.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/f5v4w6

I don't care if Barney was a twat. MAN, was he hott back then.

Yep. Have you seen this one where he's in short shorts?

He's as hot as his singing, which means: he's gotta work at it.

Oh good lord... how long will that take to load? Nnggg... My lust for Barney knows no sense or rationality. I think he's hottest when he's not really trying.

xpost

Yeah, the funny thing is I don't *always* think he's hot but there's just certain times when it just WORKS. I think the hottest I ever saw him though was the PFD (Pumped Full of Drugs) live video (Lowlife era).

There are lots of times when he looks like a complete and utter pencil necked geek! But he kind of proves just how sexy geeks can be.

I had the weirdest realisation tonight, walking to meet a friend for a drink. I kept thinking about, like... New Order vs. Band X after realising that yes, I would choose them over both the Velvet Underground *and* Hawkwind. And I was trying to think of a band that I *would* pick over New Order. And I realised that I'd pick New Order over Stereolab, I'd pick them over Spacemen 3 by a hair (the only bass player I like better than Will Carruthers would be Peter Hook).

And it's weird, because if you asked me "who's your favourite band?" I'd *never* say New Order; I would probably say Stereolab or Spacemen 3 or the Velvets. But I can not think of a band that I would actually choose over New Order.

I guess they're just not a personality-defining band in the way that Stereolab or Spacemen 3 or the Velvets are - but their music never fails to make me happy.

Yeah, that's how it happened with me, too. In the 80's I would never have said they were my favourite band, and then somewhere along the way it began to occur to me they had created something timeless.

I remember seeing this in the 80s. The BBC did a sort of NO special. There was a cracking version of Age of Consent.

I have the whole show on a VHS in the loft somewhere.

It was simultaneously broadcast in stereo on Radio 1, I had that on cassette (they finished the version of Confusion (or was it Temptation), which faded out on the TV, but god knows where *that* cassette is)

I guess they're just not a personality-defining band in the way that Stereolab or Spacemen 3 or the Velvets are - but their music never fails to make me happy.

Yep, it's like saying your favourite band was the Beatles. it's kinda understood that everyone has regard for them, but to say who you are, you do have to be a bit more specific in your tastes.

(cut me some slack here, I know you don't *all* love the btls.

xpost

You can grab MP3s of the whole session here: http://www.new-order.net/no/audio/ (scroll down to 84 AUG 25)

Perhaps the problem with New Order is that they *don't* have a cult of personality in the way that, say, Joy Division did. But then again, maybe that utterly workmanlike approach to music was a reaction against the whole Ian Curtis mythos. There are lots of bands that claim to be "all about the music, man" but New Order kind of quietly got on with the business of making AMAZING music without making much of a fuss about it.

They're kind of unique in my favourite bands that they kind of don't have a "syllabus" or an image or a lifestyle attached - they're actually quite enigmatic as public figures. And yet the music is so epic and so amazing thatit bulldozes pretty much anything else.

I always thought of it as the Factory 'socialist' ethos. Joint songwriting credits, bass, synths and drums as important - if not more important - than guitar and singing, no band pics on the covers, no prima donnas. It probably all myth and illusion, but I prefer it like that.

Do you think that Barney and Hooky would still be *fighting* like this if it were actually like that? Ha ha.

Print the legend, I say

http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.com/2009/04/homage-new-order-western-works-980.html

Incredible sounding FLAC of the Western Works demo including the experimental jam with Cabaret Voltaire. Truth sounds particularly great in a very slow, oppressively solemn sounding take.

thanks for posting this link... downloading now!

Yeah, it's bloody great to hear this with decent sound quality after all these years! My cassette sounds like mud and it always did. Wasn't worth hearing, really. Never heard that track they supposedly did with the Cabs. Just kinda sounded like...early Cabs. Which is fine, but I'm going to keep a healthy sense of skepticism about whether New Order/Rob Gretton were really involved.

Okay people, look. You're supposed to get excited about this. The thread can't just die. You can actually hear HOMAGE now, clearly, okay? YOU CAN HEAR THE SONG CLEARLY FOR THE FIRST TIME. This is an early New Order fan's wet dream. Ah, but never mind. Carry on not caring.

Hey, I care! Downloaded them yesterday, gave a listen.

I haven't expressed much excitement because a) I've been listening to their Scamps, Blackpool show (performed two days before the WW demos!) and b) girls distract me.

ha! just watching that bbc live footage... christ! bernard sumner can't sing for shit, nor can he play guitar very well, even easy stuff. peter hook does the same exact thing in every song, gilian just held down 2 notes on some argegiator preset through the whoe song, and the drumming, while not being as noticeably bad as the rest of them, is sloppy. how on earth did they ever manage to become the best band of the 80's?

therein lies the beauty of new order.

and yet, perfect kiss is out there wild in the world, gainsaying all naysayers.

Okay people, look. You're supposed to get excited about this. The thread can't just die. You can actually hear HOMAGE now, clearly, okay? YOU CAN HEAR THE SONG CLEARLY FOR THE FIRST TIME. This is an early New Order fan's wet dream. Ah, but never mind. Carry on not caring.

'Homage' is not terribly good though, is it?

I have the whole show on a VHS in the loft somewhere.

It was simultaneously broadcast in stereo on Radio 1, I had that on cassette (they finished the version of Confusion (or was it Temptation), which faded out on the TV, but god knows where *that* cassette is)

― Mark G, Tuesday, 9 December 2008 10:35 (4 months ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Actually, do you know what? I *think* I had the stereo sound from the Radio 1 broadcast fed into the VHS instead of the mono terrestrial sound. So, the NO session continues whereas the BBC pics go to something else.

Still haven't actually found it tho.

Frankly, I spent ages downloading stuff to deal with Flac and RAR files or whatever, and wished I hadn't bothered. Still love Movement though.

NEW ORDER: Movement (Factory).

The clean, industrial sound of New Order fulfills all the expectations that inevitably result from their history (Joy Division) without being predictable. Insistent, itching rhythms underly music that is electronic but human (even romantic!), sometimes beautiful and often melancholy. Only the vocals let it down by their characterlessness. Let's have more passion, please! Bernard Albrecht, Peter Hooke, Gillian Gilbert and Stephen Morris are Very Serious Young People as tracks like "Truth", "Sensors" and "Denial" underline. And there's nothing wrong with that.

(8 out of 10)

Neil Tennant

-Taken from Smash Hits album reviews, November 26th 1981 - page 25.

Note: Everything typed above is how it actually appears.

AHHHH

http://ventsmagazine.com/2018/12/19/new-order-announce-release-of-movement-definitive-edition-boxed-set/

TRACKLISTING
LP / CD1 (original album)
Dreams Never End
Truth
Senses
Chosen Time
ICB
The Him
Doubts Even Here
Denial
CD2 (previously unreleased tracks)

Dreams Never End (Western Works Demo)
Homage (Western Works Demo)
Ceremony (Western Works Demo)
Truth (Western Works Demo)
Are You Ready For This? (Western Works Demo)
The Him (Cargo Demo)
Senses (Cargo Demo)
Truth (Cargo Demo)
Dreams Never End (Cargo Demo)
Mesh (Cargo Demo)
ICB (Cargo Demo)
Procession (Cargo Demo)
Cries And Whispers (Cargo Demo)
Doubts Even Here (Instrumental) (Cargo Demo)
Ceremony (1st Mix – Ceremony Sessions)
Temptation (Alternative 7”)
Procession (Rehearsal Recording)
Chosen Time (Rehearsal Recording)

New Order – Movement DVD
Live Shows
Hurrah’s, NY 1980
In A Lonely Place
Procession
Dreams Never End
Mesh
Truth
Cries & Whispers
Denial
Ceremony
Recorded on 27th September, 1980.
Produced, directed and filmed by Merrill Aldighieri

Peppermint Lounge, NY 1981
In A Lonely Place
Dreams Never End
Chosen Time
ICB
Senses
Denial
Everything’s Gone Green
Hurt – instrumental
Temptation

TV Sessions
Granada Studios 1981
Doubts Even Here
The Him
Procession
Senses
Denial

BBC Riverside 1982
Temptation
Chosen Time
Procession
Hurt – instrumental
Senses
Denial
In A Lonely Place

Extras
Ceremony CoManCHE Student Union 1981
In A Lonely Place Toronto 1981
Temptation Soul Kitchen, Newcastle 1982
Hurt Le Palace, Paris 1982
Procession Le Palace, Paris 1982
Chosen Time Pennies 1982
Truth The Haçienda 1983
ICB Minneapolis 1983

12” Singles
Ceremony (version 1)
Recorded at Eastern Artists Recordings in East Orange, New Jersey, during the US visit the previous September, New Order’s first single might, in an alternative universe, have been Joy Division’s next. The 12” single, originally released in March 1981 (the 7” having been released in January) including the original version of ‘Ceremony’, will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Ceremony (version 1)
Side 2
In A Lonely Place
Ceremony (version 2)
The alternative, re-recorded version of ‘Ceremony’ now also featuring Gillian Gilbert in the band was released later in 1981 and will feature the later alternative ‘cream’ sleeve rather than the original green and copper. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Ceremony (version 2)
Side 2
In A Lonely Place
Everythings Gone Green
Originally released on Factory Benelux in December 1981, this 12” featured Everythings Gone Green, which had previously been on the reverse of the band’s second 7” single ‘Procession’ in September 1981,and ‘Cries And Whispers’ and ‘Mesh’ whose titles were flipped on the cover causing confusion amongst fans and compilers ever since. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Everythings Gone Green
Side 2
Cries And Whispers
Mesh
Temptation
Featuring the full versions of both tracks this 12” was first release in May 1982 and were the first self-produced released recordings. With ‘Temptation’ being a cast iron New Order classic, this is an essential part of any New Order collection. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.
Side 1
Temptation
Side 2
Hurt

remix:

12” Singles

Ceremony (version 1)

Recorded at Eastern Artists Recordings in East Orange, New Jersey, during the US visit the previous September, New Order’s first single might, in an alternative universe, have been Joy Division’s next. The 12” single, originally released in March 1981 (the 7” having been released in January) including the original version of ‘Ceremony’, will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Ceremony (version 1)

Side 2

In A Lonely Place

Ceremony (version 2)

The alternative, re-recorded version of ‘Ceremony’ now also featuring Gillian Gilbert in the band was released later in 1981 and will feature the later alternative ‘cream’ sleeve rather than the original green and copper. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Ceremony (version 2)

Side 2

In A Lonely Place

Everythings Gone Green

Originally released on Factory Benelux in December 1981, this 12” featured Everythings Gone Green, which had previously been on the reverse of the band’s second 7” single ‘Procession’ in September 1981,and ‘Cries And Whispers’ and ‘Mesh’ whose titles were flipped on the cover causing confusion amongst fans and compilers ever since. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Everythings Gone Green

Side 2

Cries And Whispers

Mesh

Temptation

Featuring the full versions of both tracks this 12” was first release in May 1982 and were the first self-produced released recordings. With ‘Temptation’ being a cast iron New Order classic, this is an essential part of any New Order collection. This 12” will feature remastered audio on heavyweight vinyl.

Side 1

Temptation

Side 2

Hurt

I am looking forward to this because I never did get the two CD reissues after all the kerfluffle about sound quality, so if this is a full new series, I'm happily on board.

Yeah, this looks amazing. Hopefully Mute don't fuck up the actual box like they did with the Music Complete set. Going to wait to read reviews of the sound quality before shelling out big bucks for this though. Been burned by New Order reissues many times in the past.

putting out four 12"s instead of a 3rd disc in the album plays like a fuckup to me

putting out four 12"s instead of a 3rd disc in the album plays like a fuckup to me

Exactly what I said on Twitter. Why aren't the 12"s in the box set? You know damn well why not. ($$$)

this makes me really glad that I already have all those 12"s ripped and hard filed, the hell with remasters

wait, aren't the 12"s part of the box set?

No.

it might be both? lots of people might want just some of the 12s, fuck a box set imo

I kinda just want the CDs, I'm already swimming in New Order 12"s

Ah, I see. They're in the 'bundle' for 150. I have all the 12"s already, but if these sound good, i'd rather play the reissues than the originals. BTW, my original 12" of Ceremony (green sleeve, 1st version) sounds phenomenal. I can hear the guitar in the background so much clearer than on any other CD or vinyl version.

hey f.hazel, i'm looking to complete my collection and I am missing a couple 94/95 singles, and the Jetstream promo with a J on the front. if you're looking to get rid of some, i'm looking to buy.

Thanks to this thread for turning me on to that Taras Chevchenko performance, which is incredible. I agree that it throws the Movement tracks into a whole new (Hannett-free) light.

What is Peter Hook playing at that concert - is that a 6-string bass, or did the band just have 2 guitars at this point?
Also, interesting that Hook never got a lead vocal again after "Dreams Never End"... it's not like his voice is any worse than Bernie's.

^ (what is Hooky playing on the first few songs, I should say -- he seems to switch back and forth with a regular 4-string bass later in the set)

New Order 12" reissues is a weird move. All decent used record stores seem to have loads. Plus I got a pristine Ceremony cream sleeve off Discogs for $20 just last year.

All accounts I've read talk about how none of them wanted to sing. I'm surprised Hook wasn't stuck with it again.

I am all over this if they're mastered properly!

Also thanks to this thread for being, IIRC, my introduction to ILM all of 13 years ago.

"Also, interesting that Hook never got a lead vocal again after "Dreams Never End"."

doesn't he sign Doubts Even Here? Or is that Barney trying to be Ian Curtis?

sing obviously, i haven't had any coffee yet

pretty sure that's Hook

Once I untangled the grammar on the wikipedia page for that song, I confirmed that Hook did indeed sing Doubts Even Here:

This led to a dispute over who should fill Curtis' shoes with the lead vocalist role. All three male members were in contention, but due to Bernard Sumner's voice being significantly different from Curtis', New Order opted for him to take the role, wanting New Order's sound to be different from Joy Division's. Ironically with this new vocalist, in addition to "Doubts Even Here", the first track ("Dreams Never End") on the first album recorded by New Order, Movement, is sung by bassist Peter Hook.

so I bought Movement: The Definitive Edition with some unexpected catsitting money, and it's pretty great. the box and book and everything are very nice, but the real treasures are the two bonus discs, a CD and a DVD. The CD has the Western Works demos and the Cargo demos and some other neat stuff, but the DVD is so great! Four live shows (two in clubs, two in studios) from 1980-1982 showcasing all kinds of possible New Orders before they settled in and the recordings sound really good. Presumably it's mostly stuff that has been out there floating around but it's nice to have it all together... so far liking most the Cargo demos, a sorta un-Hannetted Movement and the Peppermint Lounge show from 1981 with a bonkers version of Temptation I think I've heard before but is delightful. By the 1982 versions they've already pretty much locked it down.

gross title

they wisely did not emboss that on the front of the box or anywhere inside on the artwork, only only the one-sheet stuck to the back (which can be removed)

I want to say clips from some of those live sets show up in the New Order Story doc.

> unexpected catsitting money

what? that's a great title

Some Unexpected Catsitting Money was the working title of Some Great Reward, IIRC.

Anyway, the Cargo demos are so fucking good, let me reiterate. I don't know if it's more the fresh sound of an album I've been listening to for thirty years now, or if it really just works better without the Hannett sheen... Unknown Pleasures for me was certainly drastically improved by his production (vs the Warsaw demos), but I dunno about Movement. They buried the vocals on the original Movement, but I really like them being way forward in the mix on the Cargo demos.

The guitar on the Cargo version of Dreams Never End sounds like some great lost Galaxie 500 track (Hook singing on that track... quite alarming) but his vocals work on Mesh, with the bass on that one there's a nice Gang of Four thing going. And the stripped-down Doubts Even Here has a nice Seventeen Seconds thing going. As I said, it's like a catalog of possible New Orders, before they chose.

Why is "Procession" nowhere to be found in all this remastering and reissuing? Just because it was a 7"? Or have I missed it somehow?

Too bad the 12"s don't seem to be available digitally - no CD or download.

It's on both the recent-ish Movement reissues (2CD deluxe has the original 7" version and the Definitive Edition has six various demo/live versions) and on the re-remastered Singles compilation.

You can download the singles here - in the uk anyway

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/interpreter/new-order/download-streaming-albums?s=rdc#results

I think they are on iTunes too