Gram Parsons:Classic or dud?

ON THE OTHER HAND, i've been listening to the flying burrito brothers and i largely love most of what i've heard from them. parsons's voice works much better in tandem with another singer and the songs represent the best fusion of country and rock *I'VE* ever heard, at the very least.

so, parsons solo = dud, but search: flying burrito brothers.

Anyone know if Emmylou Harris did anything else of worth after Gram passed on?

Otis - That song about the freak "on the weed" ("Hippie Boy") was a parody of "The Funeral", one of Hank Williams' old Luke The Drifter recitations - the original was about a preacher whose "Ethiopian face showed the wisdom and ignorance of a crushed, undying race" (hey, I didn't write it!). Chris Hillman just describes the kid in "Hippie Boy" in a similar fashion - it didn't stop the Burrito Brothers from being freaks themselves, through and through (or so I suspect). As for Emmylou, I've heard a 70s best-of that's pretty but bland, but you might like Wrecking Ball if you can stand Daniel Lanois' production style - all the songs are verrrrry slow, but there are some good covers.

He ruined the Byrds too - although I guess it's ultimately McGuinn's fault for letting in turds like Skip Battin afterwards.

The a friend sent me a compilation cd of his favourite ever tracks and I thought, what the hell is that country shite doing on here BUT . . . the more I heard it, the more i thought, hmmmm there's something here - I mean 'callico bonnett'!!! - but, still . . .

Then another friend lent me the tribute album. No guys, listen to this, and then try and tell me that the man couldn't write a song with a tune - jesus, the whole album is full of killer songs, songs to rip ya heart out. Now, maybe, just maybe, it takes another artist to bring the tunes out but I am amazed at the complexity and shade that Parsons managed to convey into what are supposedly simple country tunes - listen to 'She' by Chrissie Hynde or Evan Dando's '$1000 wedding' - Hot Burrito the Mavericks - Juanita Sheryl Crow - listen to the hook on Sleepless Nights - I tell ya my kids are only in their teenage years and that wacky hook is driving them mad - and finally Ryan Adams - can't stand his solo stuff but this version of Song For You with Whiskeytown, wow.

Sorry guys, but if you can't get it after listening to this album then the problem is yours - the dude had so much soul.

Gavin King

And if you think it's "too country," maybe you should start off with Willie Nelson's "Red Headed Stranger" then Johnny Cash's last four albums. By the time you've wiped the drool off your chin, you'll be a country fan--proud of your Hank Williams record collection. Then give Gram Parsons another try.

That quote from some guy about Parsons "ruining the Byrds" is hilarious as well. I mean, you might as well say you just hate country. McGuinn totally wanted to go that direction, Parsons just helped him along. But whatever, guy obviously uninformed/too-lazy to give a shit.

And yet: he was the one who wrote the songs, quite a few key songs; maybe he knew something important after all.

Having said that, I do not think he is THEE founding father of country rock, alt-country, no depression, etc. And it is here that I wish Parson's legacy be cut down a little. So many great country, folk, bluegrass, psych, rock hybrids came out from '66 to '73. First, I ask anybody into country rock to PLEASE, PLEASE listen to Sir Douglas Quintet's Mendocino LP, as well as others. Doug Sahm had a real vision for fusing garage to country to psych -- great songwriter, interpreter and singer. He seems to be just as big an influence on Uncle Tupelo-Wilco as Parsons. The Everly Brothers Roots LP is a masterpiece psych-country-rock masterpiece. I really, really think this is a special record. Furthermore, pick-up the Warner Brothers' collection of the Everly's 60s material, I like it even better than the 50s stuff. Moby Grape's debut and Skip Spence's Oar can both be considered radical fusions of rock, country, folk and psych. Third, the Beau Brummel's Bradley's Barn LP from '68 is a totally unique country-rock-pop hybrid. Waylon Jennings, before his outlaw image, made a handful of flawed records that contained some great countrified Buddy Holly-type pop tunes. (He was Holly's bass player on the tour that killed him.) Now this might upset a few, but I find the Dead's Workingman's Dead and American Beuty as enjoyable and satisfying as any Parsons record from the same time. The Band's Music from the Big Pink and self-titled second record both possess real country-rock milestones As does the six-volume bootleg set of the Basement Tapes. Hell, what about Dylan's Nashville Skyline and John Wesley Harding? The former being way more country than the latter. Jerry Lee Lewis' country output from the early to mid-60s is more country but Lewis is putting some old-time rock muscle behind it. The Downliners Sect made a crazy country folk garage album in like '65. Killer. Anybody heard the Kaliedescope from 60s San Francisco? Some of their stuff is prime dreamy country-tinged psych-folk. Hell, we also need to touch on Byrds LA: Dillards, Linda Ronstadt, Gene Clark, etc. Some fine country-rock to be had in there. I gotta stop typing...

-Justin

seconded.

have we discussed that live 2-cd thing on amoeba?

i think i mentioned it on another thread, but nobody had heard it yet -- including me. However, I got it last week and think it's nice -- super ragged, for sure, but if you dig the burrito bros. it's essential. in fact, i find it pretty weird that it's marketed as a "gram parsons" set "featuring" the burritos. As Gram has gained more and more notoriety over the years, it seems like people forget that they were a band -- chris hillman and sneaky pete contribute as much to the sound as Parsons does. on these live sets, the psychedelic pedal steel is often the star of the show. anyway, nitpicking -- just glad this got released really. perhaps the most amazing thing is just how clunky a drummer michael clarke is -- not really news to anyone who's heard Byrds records, but it is kind of remarkable. he totally loses the plot on one of the hot burriton no. 2s here. Still, it ends up being a bit more endearing than annoying.

He ruined the Byrds too - although I guess it's ultimately McGuinn's fault for letting in turds like Skip Battin afterwards.

Or is it Rog's fault for being so directionless at that stage that he would actually let Gram (or anyone) take over the Byrds? And then wipe his vocals off?!

Then appear on the 700 Club? Just who is the turd?

Gram is fucking beyond classic!

700 Club??

um, yes... Roger appeared on the 700 Club about 7 years ago, causing a huge controversy amongst the Byrds usenet group, in which he used to regularly participate. There was enough bad blood stirred up to cause him to "leave" alt.music.byrds.

I don't care what they may say
I don't know what they may do
I don't care what they may say
Jesus is just alright oh yea
Jesus is just alright

yeah the live recordings are pretty ragged, and some of the instrumentation is almost inaudible. and the packaging--i can barely get the discs out of the sleeves. but given the paucity of burrito bros material (and yeah it's unfortunate this was billed as a "gram parsons" release) it's quite a find.

wow, total classic. i'm just listening to a mix of gram parsons stuff a friend sent me, this is all pretty amazing. never really gave him a listen before.

Jesus is just alright

haha, yes, I didn't die of shock at the 700 Club thing either and in fact, I was one of the few regulars in the newsgroup to support him on it. (this was more like 10 years ago actually, more I think about it).

The last time I had seen him was in the gym in a high school in Edison, NJ so i kind of felt that if he has a chance to be on TV, he should really jump on it no matter what. I shouldn't have implied that I was that bothered about the 700 Club thing because I wasn't-- although looking back, it ain't exactly a feather in his cap.

I am a bit of a Roger "revisionist" though and as much as I love Rog (and first got the thrill of meeting him when I was a teenager in 1978 at a quite ipromptu radio session, where we all crammed into the booth to sing along on "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere"), I do have several reservations about it, not the least of which was his luring Gram away from LHI to front the Byrds and then wiping his vocals off the tape, only for them to appear long after he was dead. I think that this was cowardly, somewhat typical of Roger's calculated behavior both past and future, and that it is quite pathetic to invite someone in to front your band just a few short years after you started it (setting aside the issue that you had already forced out the lead singer and main songwriter whose genius you hadn't properly appreciated).

But yeah, Jesus is just alright w me too...

Someone please, please, please explain to me why most people prefer Grievous Angel over GP. I like Grievous Angel, but GP is one of the 20 greatest albums ever written.

I like me some International Submarine Band.

i like sweetheart of the rodeo

I have it on excellent authority that when I was four years old my favorite records were Sweetheart of the Rodeo and John Wesley Harding.

i think the grievous angel love is probably colored by the title track (because who doesn't love it?). and also maybe just its retroactive aura of impending doom. but i totally agree that gp is superior.

the burritos live disc that came out a while back on amoeba is worth getting, but who the fuck decided on the billing, jeez

Hot Burrito nr 2 is my favourite song of the moment FUCK. such an awesome song. cant listen to the whole album all the way through as i am not a country girl at heart.

i can't get w/ people who would say 'dud'

so classic it hurts

gram's the king of heartbreak

whatever that means

a grand piano made entirely of smack

this old earthquake's gonna leave me in the poor house

sin city is the best song i've listened to all year

<3 his cover of "to love somebody" so much...

i can't get w/ people who would say 'dud'

― mark cl, Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so classic it hurts

― mark cl, Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:14 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

word, esp the first part

Dud. I have FBB's'Gilded Palace...' and the one after it on a single CD, and well, I don't know, it's just too *country* for me. The press would have us believe all this stuff about creating a 'New American Music'. These two albums contain some fairly pleasant country-rock, but there is such a high percentage of the worst kind of trad, mawkish old country in there too, that this claim seems absurd.
He ruined the Byrds too - although I guess it's ultimately McGuinn's fault for letting in turds like Skip Battin afterwards.

― Dr. C, Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:00 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark

fuck you imo

still feeling blue didn't do shit and we'll sweep out the ashes was too ragged and then BOOM a song for you and i'm rapt and will listen to anything with this man's name on it

i mean i own mad hank williams and conway twitty and patsy cline and david allen coe and shit but the fiddles on still feeling blue are so fuckin trebly i can't even really listen. a song for you on is the best country soul record ever made tho.

still feeling blue is all about the pedal steel

hoos u heard $1000 Wedding?

hell yes i have and it can't be fucked with imo

velko ty for the correction i totally thought those were fiddles all this time and i feel a douche

and now hoos still feel a douche.

xxpost Mekons did an awesome cover of that song btw

the back-to-back jams of still feeling blue & we'll sweep out the ashes do it for me every time

hoos listen to 'sin city'

or 'return of the grevious angel' god this guy is so good

so guys gp or grevious angel? i think i like gp. what i really like tho is the 2-disc sacred hearts anthology that basically has both these albums + all kinds of stuff from ISB/byrds/FBB

^^^OTM
Best present I got last year (thank u gf). Want a Nudie suit (gf protests).

haha me too

I checked out this guy's records from the library and was surprised by how shitty they were. I was led to believe that this guy was some kind of genius.

wife says i play too much gram parsons

do u like country music? xp

anyways so i've also been reading 'twenty thousand roads' by david meyer, prob the most detailed bio of gram that i've come across (tho i know there are others out there). really fascinating book. guy has an irrational hatred for the eagles (then again i suppose most people do) and has a few quirks but all in all it's a really interesting and entertaining read. especially enjoyed the nellcote/stones stuff during the recording of 'exile'

through tons of interviews what meyer conveys so well is the effect gp had on everyone around him - so many people were like 'yea i didn't really think much about country music, thought it was mostly for hicks until gram sat me down and played me a bunch of songs'

*checks amazon*
ooh, might want to get that. i'm not that familiar with gp apart from the musics

like a lot of musician bios i never read them start to finish - i just bounce around and pick up chapters here and there, but it's really good. there's also a big section in that back w/ a suggested discography of country records gram loved, albums by his contemporaries, and later bands that were influenced by him

do u like country music? xp

Yeah, I do actually-- well, the old stuff. Not whatever passes for country these days.

what didn't u like about parsons?

yeah i enjoyed that book a lot, tho my major takeaway was that gram had a totally weird and fucked up life.

this is true

I can't really get into Parsons because what I've heard sounds like some rich kid who stumbled upon country music and wanted to adopt it.

ha u get that from his music or from reading that he came from a rich family?

b/c i don't really know how someone could tell from listening any particular song that he came from wealth

more "steeped in" than "stumbled upon" imo

Something about the guy's music sounds makes me think of posturing-- mimicry and affectation. This is also true of the Rolling Stones, but for reasons I can't really articulate, I can let them slide.

this prob gets way into issues of authenticity that go over my head but imo musicians we often think of as 'authentic' wrt to any type of music (and perhaps ESPECIALLY country music in this case) there are all kinds of mimicry and affectation.

even hank williams who people might take as the prime example of a'pure' authentic classic country music was a PERFORMER, who's borrowing from a tradition and emulating aspects of that tradition, mimicking it, using affectation

authenticity is a messy business imo and i don't necessarily have the theoretical savvy to unpack it, but i do know it's messy. stones affected and mimicked and borrowed like crazy but i would never say they're not an authentic rock n roll band

I don't care that he actually was rich kid who stumbled upon country, but sounding like one is a dealbreaker. If he'd made it past 30, who knows.

like i said i don't know how u can glean from his actual songs that he's a rich kid?

He sounds like a wuss so I blame the money.

well yea i guess. gp wasn't a hardman country singer, nor was that what he was trying to be obv

obv

He sounds like he's going through puberty all the time. With a backing singer he's often forgivable but anything he's flying solo on sounds like a fourteen-year-old's demo recordings. Oh, oh, he sure couldn't sing. Now his writing, on the other hand... "$1000 Wedding" and "Sin City" alone would place him in the history books, and there's any number of good songs that in other mouths are devastating. But as a performer, overrated: essential for those who think Costello's "Almost Blue" is an essential album. For all the genre-hopper mythology it all sounds just so straight, so suburban. Maybe if he didn't have some "cosmic vision" to play out and he'd just let himself bring it instead of approaching it like a religious convert who needs to convert the rest of us heathens. And to play him out as the sole father of country-rock? Just wrong. Buck Owens, for example, both rocked harder and was more authentically country than at least three Gram Parsonses put together. But Buck didn't party with the Stones and overdose himself while he still had his baby fat, so he doesn't get the posthumous girl.

Whatever all that's supposed to mean.

staggerlee = chris hillman sock

yeah, that's the kind of paragraph you stumble upon years later and realize how completely naive and off the mark you were.

His voice and songs fuckin' break my heart. And that's all that matters to me.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61tWL7qrO5L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

^^^ this is really, really great. i think i actually like it better than all the records.

its well mastered too so it sounds really warm and organic, all the albums always felt like they were recorded in a sardine can to me.

"This DJ tried to ask me how it felt to be leading the Progressive Country movement, I told him we played Regressive Country." - emmylou

<33333333333

ohh i didn't know about that, and now i need it.

I've never really dug deep into Parsons catalog but I gotta say that the Hank Williams inversion in Hippie Boy is pretty clever

I didn't hear Sweetheart of the Rodeo until long after I'd gotten familiar with Bakersfield's country scene and it just sounded like half-assed shit to me. maybe I would feel differently about it now.

i much prefer ISB, burrito bros, and solo parsons to sweetheart of the rodeo, unless it's the parson-sung originals. mcguinn isn't convincing on that album, imo

yep. solo parsons > burritos >>> sweetheart.

sweetheart is a totally sweet record

I've never really dug deep into Parsons catalog but I gotta say that the Hank Williams inversion in Hippie Boy is pretty clever

I thought that was a Chris Hillman track?

Got Burrito?

Buritto no 2 vs Rundgren's Hello it's me

Latter may be more smooth but former has the energy

Is "Oh Lord, grant me speed" a reference to speed.....or speed?

That line is from the bible.

i promise that i'm going to go back and read the other 102 posts in this thread, but wtf is up with the first three posts. holy shit, a criticism of G.P. /Grievous Angel that "parsons's voice works much better in tandem with another singer", without even mentioning that those albums were basically duets with emmylou fucking harris?

it's been a very gram parsons weekend. i have been fond of his byrds output for a while now, and knew the 'hot burritos' on the first flying burrito bros, but i had never really set aside a bunch of consecutive time to focus on his albums with the bros and his solo albums. they are so, so good. i love that feeling of hearing a personal instant classic, knowing i'm going to hear these songs a ton of more times.

Early ILX is pretty much ChallopsCity.

That’s the place for you and me

Someone gave me two boxes of albums a few days ago. Only kept about 20, the best thing being a late-'70s reissue of the Early Years compilation (slightly different cover than the original).

Saw the bio Twenty Thousand Roads in The Strand this week, thinking about reading it. Either that or Will Birch’s Nick Lowe bio.

there was a tribute album that came out like 20 years ago that was pretty good, def one of the very few of these trendy bands covering canonical artists comps that I would reach for over and over

“On his head an amphetamine crown”

What would I keep? These.

"How Much I've Lied" is on there twice.

Good -- I can slip "Hippie Boy" in there.

No "Sin City," Alfred?? I couldn't do without all of Gilded Palace, Grievous Angel, parts of several others--thought some of the GP material worked better on that live album Hoos cheers for upthread (the Fallen Angels being pretty much the GP/GA studio band). He had this little, crinkly, quirky voice---a bit teary here, sneery there, but good with the succinct phrasing, occasional Lou Reedy dreams sliding by---think he mostly knew he was better with other voices, especially stepping back just a little, so that less experienced Emmylou had to step up, or sound like it.
This is a handy overview, with his voice mixed back up on the Byrds tracks, before Sony did that, I think:
https://www.discogs.com/Gram-Parsons-Warm-Evenings-Pale-Mornings-Bottled-Blues-1963-1973/release/3275973

Chris Hillman is the voice you hear in Hippie Boy

https://coolspod.com/products/shopcoolpod-3d-custom-gram-parsons-nudie-suit-apparel-v2-1

“Yes you loved me
And you sold my clothes”

that Live 1973 album is such a lovely thing, i listen to it a lot

shit, i don't listen to it enough!

no one has asked for it, and this would convince zero juries of my peers, but i have to give my excuse anyway:

i have his GP and Grievous Angel LPs, along with Notorious Byrd Brothers, and i played the crap out of them. but 1) when i moved i left all my LPs behind except for like 20. GP and Grievous Angel are among the chosen.

But my terrible shame is that I'm not sure I've even heard the Live 1973 album at all. gonna fix that tonight.

*tip of the hat*

it has a lot of warmth imo
and i love that version of “we’ll sweep out the ashes”

Thanks for the rec! Listening now and Lordy Gram struck some kind of gold getting Emmylou for backing vocals.

there’s an alternate reality where the Grateful Dead have Emmylou instead of Donna.

it’s stunning to realize emmylou had only recorded her first album just a few years prior, she’s still so new and young but so incredible already… her harmonies with gram are lightyears above what he’d done w hillman

i mean, apples and oranges really but still

His death was an absolute classic.

A friend got me the Exile on Main Street 33-1/3 for Christmas. Buffalo Tom's Bill Janovitz wrote it...It's pretty good; very much a musician's book, so some of that doesn't interest me as much, but some nice personal detours and a good feel for the record. Loved this Gram Parsons bit, a conversation with Stanley Booth:

"Look at it, man," he said, as if he had read my thoughts. "They call it America, and they call it civilization, and they call it television, and they believe it and they salute it and sing songs to it and eat and sleep and die still believeing in it, and--I don't know," he said, taking another drag, "then sometimes the Mets come along and win the World Series."

I'd say that's a pretty great all-purpose line for not completely giving up on anything: "then sometimes the Mets come along and win the World Series."

i stumbled on the international submarine band record online and yeesh it's good.

jon corneal was an amazing drummer

it has such a nice heft to it compared to the other parsons-related stuff i've heard. just steady driving jangle with the pedal steel skating over it for miles. and jon corneal keeping time like a shift supervisor.

Grievous Angel was my gateway and still fave, but the live follow-up, first Burritos and this 'un are all very hefty in the right way, yeah. He jumped from ISB to the Byrds, and label boss Lee Hazlewood was furious, wanted to sue Parsons, Byrds, Columbia. ISB album producer Suzi Jane Hokum tried to convince him that they should work out a licensing deal w Columbia, which could be a foot in the door to the big time (Lee Hazlewood Industries attracted and did right in the studio by a wylde array of talent, but tended to drop the ball re releases, distribution etc.) That didn't happen either. What the hell, still a good album.

For a second there I read ISB as "Incredible String Band" and thought "WHUT?!" haha

ahhh now it makes sense lol

Imagining him and Robin Williamson swapping roles.

Love Gram but somehow have never heard ISB... gonna correct that now! I knew Emmylou's great version of "Luxury Liner".