70s Salsa (was The Fania Label 1970-1980: S/D)

this album kicks major ass. one of the santanas plays wicked guitar. i dunno why i never pursued salsa further, but if it's anything like this album, i really should (so daunting though, a whole gigantic genre to pick from)

Justo Bentacourt: Pa Bravo Yo (1972)

http://ring.cdandlp.com/diaspora/photo_moyenne/21486947.jpg

I have to be in the mood for this one, and I admit my opinion of it has fluctuated a lot, but it's good. It sounds like this sticks pretty closely to Cuban models, compared to some salsa. (I'm going to have to use "salsa" in a broader sense than I usually prefer to use it, in order to discuss this, but I think it was used that way more often in the 70s. Anyway, this CD, for instance, has a couple boleros on it.)

I took a salsera friend to see the Sun Ra Arkestra one New Year's Eve (back when my life was temporarily fairly interesting). Because of a joint fund-raising effort between the Painted Bride Art Center (I think, unless it was some larger umbrella organization they belong to) and AMLA (Asociación de Músicos Latino Americanos), AMLA people had a presence at the show. They were playing Latin music during the intermission. "Pa Bravo Yo" came on and my friend and I looked at each other like: "We're going to have to dance to this one, aren't we?" but then the Arkestra came on and the song was cut off, leaving me momentarily disappointed.

http://www.cdbueno.it/copertine%20cd%20salsa%20vecchia/el%20juicio.jpg

Really good varied set of songs that work together well as an album. Ironic trombones.

http://www.danzaymovimiento.de/data/images/jmax/jmax-fn000500.jpg

Pretty good, but not as good as. . .

http://www.link-age.or.jp/boca/disc/cg/022a.jpg

Willie Colon/Mon Rivera: There Goes the Neighborhood (1975)

(Only available image I can find is too small to bother with.) Siembra was from 1978, I forgot to say, and Metiendo Mano was from 1977.

Not nearly as trippy as one may expect from the title and cover but it does have the original Deeper Shade of Soul that the Urban Dance Squad expanded on so brilliantly.

Orchestra Harlow: Hommy: A Latin Opera (1973)

http://www.laconga.org/images/recomendados/hommy.gif

This has some spoken parts which aren't great fun for me as a non-speaker of Spanish, but there are some very good moments. Celia Cruz's "Gracia Divina" and Cheo Feliciano's track (I forget which one that is) are both particular stand-outs. There's a string section, but it all works out pretty well.

Johnny Pacheco: El Maestro (1975)

http://www.danzaymovimiento.com/data/images/jmax/jmax-fn000485.jpg

The album is too Cuban for me, or something. I don't really want to have to look at his ass in tight white pants either.

Ray Barretto: The Message (1972)

http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/b/barret_ray~_message~~_101b.jpg

I don't understand why this is supposed to be so great, but I don't like Barretto (or Pacheco) all that much.

The Fania All Stars: Live at the Cheetah Vol. 1 (1974)

http://www.danzaymovimiento.com/data/images/jmax/jmax-fn000415.jpg

Good cover. I'm not really into this, despite its alleged historical importance. (I don't doubt it really.) It does have a 7:29 version of "Anacaona" sung by Cheo Feliciano, but I prefer the album version. But Cheo Feliciano is pretty much always good, especially on recordings from this era.

Orchestra Harlow: Salsa (1977)

http://www.mambo-inn.com/images/fot-sarav-21-03.jpg

I like Junior Gonzalez's vocals, and I like other things about this album. "La Cartera" has grown on me somewhat, but I'm not a big fan of charanga (an orchestration usually involving violin and flute). So it probably really is great, but I haven't got into as of yet.

Ray Barretto - Acid
Monguito Santamaria - Hey Sister
George Guzman - Introducing George Guzman
Joe Bataan - Subway Joe
Orchestra Harlow - Heavy Smookin

these are probably on the funkier/more soulful side of things being that they're in wax poetics

ray barretto - acid, hard hands
willie colon - crime pays, la gran fuga, siembra

ok, where next? which allstars albums? i am on the lookout for "latin - soul - rock". should i grab the yankee stadium discs, or "salsa" first?

recommend me some good ruben blades and larry harlow discs.

and then let's start expanding outward. my favorite track so far has been baretto's "ahora si" off of "hard hands". i guess this means my taste runs toward acoustic mid-tempo descarga (charanga?) with really busy percussion sections. celebratory, if possible, heavy jazz influence is cool, too. not so big on the latin rock angle.

(arabic / indian music still too serious and close to home for me to get into)

I don't actually know much about Blades away from Willie Colon.

You'd probably like Barretto's Rican/Struction.

(I still have to say: I think you are going about things the wrong way by eliminating non-Fania label stuff from the 70s. A lot of the best recordings were not on Fania per se.)

Larry Harlow's Live in Qaud is good. I still haven't heard a whole bunch of Harlow I'm interested in hearing. If you're sure you like charanga, check out Harlow's Salsa! though it's not my cup of tea.

I like most of the Fania All Stars' Commitment from 1980.

How about Sabor con Angel Canales? Lots of mid-tempo, stretched out stuff.

Bobby Valentin's Afuera and La Boda de Ella are both good, with some amazing material included.

I'm pretty big on Palmieri at the moment. No interest in hearing more of him?

(No wait Acid is 1972.)

If I get back into a CDR making mood, I might be willing to send some things, but I'm a little burned out on it right now. (Why did you never request any salsa mixes on the thread for that?)

and also - by all means, let's expand out past fania!!

Since we're going beyond Fania, let me recommend Cheo Feliciano's Cheo (if you don't mind some boleros). He sang with the Fania All Stars as well, of course. Also, some earlier material: Cheo Feliciano: The Best With Joe Cuba Sextet is mostly fantastic.

Hmmmm, listening to "Hard Hands" now. This has a real Latin soul/boogaloo sort of thing going on.

The only one I've heard is "Salsa" but it's really hard for me to listen to because while the music is great it gets interrupted by lots of introductions, audio interview and weird field recording bits. The sound quality is terrible too.

Eddie Palmieri? I have Harlem River Drive which is great in a funky soul jazz way. Did he do anything more salsa oriented?

Eddie Palmieri

At the moment I am especially pushing Azucar Pa' Ti, Unfinished Masterpiece, Eddie Palmieri & Cal Tjader - Bamboleate, Lucumi, Macumba, Voodoo (although it includes some weird experiments with fusion, disco, etc.), and Palo Pa' Rumba (from 1984). All the material with his band La Perfecta (the original, not the recent reincarnation) is worth checking out, although the sound is uniformly very bad.

I just downloaded "Hard Hands" so I could help out and I'm still not sure about Barretto's "Ahora Si!"

"Descarga" is more like, very open-ended, improvisation-oriented, sort of like jazz, but too far over on the Latin dance side of things to really be Latin jazz (though it's not an obvious distinction). I don't think "Hard Hands" is Latin jazz. It sort of straddles the line between salsa and Latin soul, I think.

x-post

vahid, you may simply want to stay in the 60s and early 70s if you want similar things. Hmmm, might like Azuquita's Pura Salsa which is from a bit later but retains some Latin soul/boogaloo feel.

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0VQKLPA8H9K3T1FQGD7I71AMT6

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=11UPY8PUZFUD219ZX9RW41XLI4

Eddie Palmieri - Vamonos Pa'l Monte (1976 Tico). This is killer. It's has more of an abstract jazz vibe than any of the Fania stuff I've heard and the sound is much fuller and more atmospheric. Caminando is probably the standout track with its tin can vocal effects, funky drumming and wild organ parts.

Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975 (1974 Vaya). I haven't listened to this much yet but there are at least a couple of great songs on here. Ray & Cruz seem to have an affinity for weird little dissonant horn parts which I like.

Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz - El Sonido de la Bestia (1980 Vaya). Like the 1975 album they use strange dissonant touches here and there but overall this album seems a bit weaker. The only hint that the '80s are dawning is the occasional use of a '70s-style string machine that actually works pretty well.

Agreed!

I wish I knew Richie Ray & Bobby Cruz as more than just names.

. . .A retrospective of classics 1960s and 1970s New York salsa can be envisioned as a beast with three heads: one in the experimental vein led by Eddie Palmieri and Willie Colon; a second, "heavy" one in the Arsenio-Chappotin vein, led by Larry Harlow and Ray Barretto; and a third in the lighter Matancera style, led by Johnny Pacheco and Celia Cruz, that at times appeared to overpower the others. . . .

Puerto Rico, in turn, had its own schools, growing out of the combined influence of Cortijo and also the Sonora Matancera [originally Cuban, of course]. The most famous group, El Gran Combo de Puerto Rico, was founded in 1862 by members of Cortijo's original combo after Rafael Cortijo and his lead vocalist, Ismael Rivera, were incarcerated for drug possession. El Gran Combo carried Cortijo's legacy into the 1960s and 1970s, even after Cortijo and Rivera formed salsa bands of their own. Puerto Rico's other principal band, the Sonora Poncena, was founded in the 1950s. Originally modeled on Cuba's Sonora Matancera, the Poncena underwent several transitions and by the mid-1970s emerged with a style that retained the bright trumpets of its Cuban model but was fused with the heavy sound of the Arsenio school and the dynamic delivery of the Cortijo school. . .

I think this is either a son montuno or a cha cha cha. Probably son montuno because I think that's what walter said the liner notes said.

Just about every Fania All Stars album I've heard has a track kind of like this.

It's funny: I got mixed up originally about what you had said--plus I hadn't heard "Ahora Si," and I was thinking you were liking the most crossoverish sounding stuff from the 60s, but now it turns out you are actually liking something which is maybe "rootsier" than what I like. (But don't let that turn you off to it.)

I think you would like a lot of Fania All Stars, Johnny Pacheco, and Larry Harlow recordings, for starters (although they don't all sound like this, obviously). I think it would be worth your while to check out Larry Harlows album Salsa. Also, I bet you'd like most of Markolino Dimond/Frankie Dante's Beethoven's V.

I don't know much about boogaloo at all.

Anyway, if you like son montuno then you can always dip back into older Cuban recordings (or newer recordings of that style), and lots of salsa, etc. etc.

my salsa explorations sort of ground to a halt, much faster than i'd hoped. SO DIFFICULT TO FIND! out here in sunny san diego most latin listeners are looking for norteno or ranchera or something what's called "regional mexicana" at the record store. there's a pretty well-stocked "tropical" section at most chain stores but it's 75% ultra-glossy current pop from central america, rounded out with some current lite-latin-jazz from 70s figures.

all i've really managed to pick up are a couple of willie colon albums. no dice on siembra unfortunately. no luck finding any fania all-stars albums of note. and when i do turn up nice looking reissues, they're always on Get Back! or some other euro label so they're like 25 bucks for a 40 minute album! (ok they have nice LP-style sleeves but still!)

I think I've heard good things about that compilation, but there might be more obvious choices. I'm not too familiar with Arsenio Rodriguez's music. (I know who he is and sort of why he's important.) I don't think it's necessarily the horn section really.

As a dancer, it's easy to draw a line between what's salsa and what isn't. (Salsa = Latin music to which I can dance the steps I learned in my salsa class, with reasonable comfort.) Otherwise, it does become a little fuzzy. A lot of people say that New York salsa has a different sort of rhythmic drive than Cuban music even when it's basically sticking to a Cuban formula. I think there's something to that, though I wouldn't want to try to elaborate.

I finally got my turntable hooked up to my computer so here is the first track from Ricardo Ray & Bobby Cruz - 1975...

http://s12.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=22MQ4IVVJ6ZOE027YP39YOBGL4

http://s24.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3089PZ1MM8SVA1I4ADYU0HYJ9G

Sonora Poncena - Fuego En El 23
Ray, Richie - El Sonido De La Bestia
Blades, Ruben - Bohemio Y Poeta
Colon, Willie - Siembra
Cruz, Celia - Celia & Johnny
Colon, Willie - El Malo
Pacheco, Johnny / Pete "Conde" Rodriguez - Los Compadres
Rodriguez, Pete "El Conde" - I Like It Like That
La Lupe - Es La Reina
Harlow, Larry - Yo Soy Latino
Valentin, Bobby - Rey Del Bajo
Lavoe, Hector - La Voz
Betancourt, Justo - Leguleya No
Puente, Tito - Para Los Rumberos
Rivera, Ismael - Maelo
Palmieri, Eddie - Vamonos Pa'l Monte
Pacheco, Johnny - El Maestro
Roena, Roberto - Apollo Sound 5
Palmieri, Charlie - El Gigante Del Teclado
Tipica 73 - Charangueando Con La Tipica
Barretto, Ray - Acid
Cruz, Celia - Cuba Y Puerto Rico Son...
Miranda, Ismael - Asi Se Compone Un Son
Feliciano, Cheo - Cheo
Bataan, Joe - Riot
Ramirez, Louie - Ali Baba
Brothers, Lebron - Salsa Y Control
Santamaria, Mongo - Solrito
Cuba, Joe - Bang! Bang! Push, Push
Orquesta Inmensidad - La Salsa De Hoy

Santiago, Adalberto: Adalberto
Lavoe, Hector: De Ti Depende
Colon, Willie: Fantasmas
Cruz, Celia: Homenaje A Beny More
Barretto, Ray: Indestructible
Blades, Ruben: Maestra Vida Vol. 1
Colon, Santos: Siempre Santitos

(Hmmm. Does that make it NSFW?)

Over the next year, I expect to finally buy truckloads of these things.

Someone hooked me up with a copy of this, which I know nothing about and have never heard of previously, and it's pretty good. There's a goofy party theme to it, but even that is handled okay. A cover of "Cisco Kid." Some great fast-paced vibes and flute stuff. I am just assuming it's from the 70's.

A crack set of early 70s Latin, played by "the cream of New York" -- a group that includes Louie Ramirez on piano, vibes, and organ, and Mauricio Smith on flute and sax! The whole album's pretty darn great, with a really strong jazzy touch -- thanks to great work by Ramirez and Smith -- and at some level, the feel of the record is similar to that of labelmates Ocho, with an equally righteous blend of styles. Most tracks have vocals, but the main focus is on the strong instrumentation -- and 2 cuts on the set are instrumentals. Titles include "Salta Perico", "El Party", "Quimbia", "Mi Pais", and a great funky cover of "Cisco Kid"!

Woah! That's the only record by eiher of them that I own. I got it the Gigante (a kind of Mexican K-Mart) in Puebla or somewhere in Mexico, in their discount bin. My brother made me get it, he was living there in the early-mid 80s I dug it, my friends all hated it.

that looks awesome

It figures.

Anyway, that's their best album together, from what I've heard of their work (and I don't think I've ever come across even one person who dissents from that view).

x-post:

The La Crema you mean? It actually is really good. It's not as crazy as the cover makes it look, but in the beginning there are people ringing a doorbell and coming in to the party, and then at the end there's party-leaving chatter as well. I didn't realize Louie Ramirez was involved until I Googled it, but I generally like him (as vibraphonist and as arranger/bandleader).

More about it:

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/12572.10?izsWRqZi;;595

(Last post: WTF, a bit off-topic. tiit, I will get to this eventually. I remind you that it was your idea. In general, it's better to let me "go first" in a trade.)

are any of the compilations worth getting? like the 'our latin thing' cds?

I'm not too familiar with the compilations, but based on casually looking at the track listings for a lot of them, I usually find myself thinking: wouldn't you want to just get the whole album some of these songs come from? In many cases we are talking about albums that are strong overall (not that the individual tracks can't stand up outside that context). Of course, I'm not really telling you to just start buying dozens of these albums. If you can give me some examples of tracklists, I might be able to comment. (I can't find a tracklist for the first volume of those Our Latin Thing compilations, and I'm not familiar with at least half of what's on Vol. 2.)

heres the tracklisting for vol 1 of our latin thing. i just ordered this and the new york salsa 2cd comp. i would like to buy the full albums as usually i dont really like compilations as they dont hang that well together but then i often find when you buy the proper albums, sometimes the albums are mostly a few standout tracks supported by filler. i dont know if thats how it is with fania though....

1. Bang Bang - Cuba, Joe
2. I Like It Like That - Rodriguez, Pete
3. Boogaloo Sabrosa - Santamaria, Monguito (1)
4. Mercy Mercy Baby - Barretto, Ray
5. Subway Joe - Bataan, Joe
6. Hit The Bongo - Puente, Tito
7. Gotta Do My Number - Averne, Harvey
8. Willie Wopper - Colon, Willie
9. Consolacion - Roena, Roberto Y Su Apollo Sound
10. Change Had Better Come - Dimmond, Mark
11. Soul Makossa - Fania All Stars
12. Quimbara - Cruz, Celia & Johnny Pacheco

also i dont know these artists that well or latin music especially well either (apart from things here and there) so i dont really know which albums to get. seems so daunting. i picked up a la lupe album yesterday which i love which is why im trying to get more...

That looks like it's tilted toward the boogaloo/Latin soul side of things, but I definitely do like some of those cuts. It's kind of weird because it starts off mostly boogaloo (-ish) and then you get something like that Celia Cruz/Johnny Pacheco track at the end, which has a much more traditional, Cuban-rooted, conjunto sound. But the three tracks ahead of it could provide a transition. (I don't know them, by name anyway.)

I'm not anti-compilation in general, I've just seen a lot of Fania compilations that pull out individual tracks from albums I consider good all around. (And sometimes you will get a series of this where volume 1 has one track from album x, and then volume 3 has another track from album x, and volume 4 has yet another track. . . It just seems like a weird way to repackage it. You might as well get a list of albums in a case like that.)

the new york salsa 2cd

Do you know the exact title? (Sorry, but there are so many of these things.)

its this one -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/York-City-Salsa-Various-Artists/dp/B000H5V98A/ref=sr_1_3/203-7480237-8151966?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1179661062&sr=1-3

see, i dont really know if the our latin thing vol 1 is mainly boogaloo or what, although id be interested to get a good grasp on whats what, which is why i thought maybe a compilation would be a good place to start. i dont wanna spend loads of money and feel like i got burnt cos i bought the wrong stuff that isnt to my taste. i just hate comps though cos they seem so all over the place and not often very cohesive or worse, just lacking in quality control and compiled by someone who doesnt know much about the tracks (or they have loads of obscure stuff which is only really good once you know the most famous songs).

I don't honestly recognize a lot of the individual tracks, but it looks good, more broadly based than Our Latin Thing, vol.1. There may be some weird transitions, like "Bilongo" to "Periodico De Ayer." It's got some less obvious artists, but not anyone overly obscure. (I'm not sure I'd consider anyone who appeared on Fania to be truly obscure though, so that judgment might not amount to much.)

I have two words for you: Orestes Vilato.

Which two words are mentioned above in the Hard Hands review from descarga.

i like all of the cuts on that "our latin thing" comp, but i am more into latin soul / boogaloo than salsa.

funny that this got revived ... been listening to "son cubano nyc" quite a bit over the last few days...

there's some dude on that son cubano comp that goes by the name of "chocolate", his stuff is STELLAR.

The trumpet player, Alfredo "Chocolate" Armenteros, Beny Moré's cousin, this guy?

Yeah, is it the trumpeter? He's definitely a ubiquitous and legendary trumpet player. I didn't know he was related to Beny Moré.

dudes, this cantante movie is absolute shit. surprise surprise

We've been anticipating it on the Rolling... thread, but maybe we should discuss it on this specially created thread

Who Will Be Playing Yomo Toro In The Soon-To-Be-Released Hector Lavoe Biopic El Cantante?

Since Fania was just sold, I'm worried that it will soon disappear from eMusic. Any recommendations for titles to download from the label are greatly appreciated.

What do you like so far?

I can't say I've spent a lot of time with them so far, but I like two Willie Colon discs: Cosa Nuestra and Siembra (the latter is with Ruben Blades).

Also, the soundscans on this compilation seem interesting. It's credited to the Emusica label, but I know that's related to Fania (or was), and I'm pretty sure I've seen the disc credited to Fania elsewhere.

Well that's not a lot to go on, so I'll just recommend some titles:

Eddie Palmieri: Azucar Pa' Ti
Cheo Feliciano: Cheo [this has a few boleros, and in general is somewhat on the smooth side]
Willie Colon/Hector Lavoe: El Juicio
Sonora Poncena: Explorando [I recommended this to unperson and he didn't like it too much, so be warned]
Willie Colon: The Good The Bad and the Ugly
Ismael Rivera: Greatest Hits [I'm just checking the tracking listing now and this has some incredible songs on it]
Pete Rodriguez: I Like it Like That [if you want some Latin soul/boogaloo]
Willie Colon: Lo Malo
Eddie Palmieri: Molasss
Eddie Palmieri: Mozambique
La Lupe: Queen of Latin Soul
Angel Canales: Sabor
Willie Colon/Mon Rivera: There Goes the Neighborhood
Orchestra Harlow: La Raza Latina: A Salsa Suite [though I haven't heard it all myself]

You might also want to pick up something representative by Ray Barretto, Roberto Roena, Bobby Valentin, and Johnny Pacheco. The La Herencia compilations for individual artists generally look good.

In my opinion, there's nothing else that really sounds like Siembra.

I know I should give reasons and so forth, but I'm feeling too lazy.

No, no: This is great! I'm going to sample the soundscans tonight. Thanks, RS.

Forgot I also have Ray Barretto's Acid. I think that's on the Fania label, too.

(Also have a late-career Eddie Palmieri disc. It isn't on Fania, but I love the jazzy feel.)

Fania has a whole series of really good two-CD single-artist compilations called A Man And His Music; I've got the ones dedicated to Willie Colón, Ruben Blades, Cheo Feliciano, Eddie Palmieri, Ray Barretto, the Fania All-Stars and Celia Cruz, and there's one for Hector Lavoe, too, of course. They're all excellent. They run about $20 a pop, but Best Buy frequently has 'em for $17.

Those compilations are actually the main reason I'm bummed that the catalog is switching owners again; I was hoping they'd do Ismael Rivera, Roberto Roena and Sonora Ponceña next (they grew on me eventually).

Not sure how important the marketing/booklet/packaging is to you, but fwiw, at least some of those A Man And His Music compilations are (at the moment) still available on eMusic.

The Amazon MP3 store has a bunch of 'em, too.

I got the Ray Barretto one at the Borders Books 50% off sale for $9. It's great

Daniel, Esq., it's just that I'm mostly talking favorites here, rather than really thinking about what you might like (but then I'm still not sure I know enough to help with that--plus there's still more of the Fania catalog that I haven't heard than I had heard). I was using cduniverse to pull out titles, but once I got time, it seemed to me that some things I had seen before weren't there. Also, some artists I just happen to know more from compilations than from albums. (Lavoe is an example of that, and I probably should have recommended more. In fact, I meant to include Hector Lavoe Strikes Back.)

unperson, check out the Fania Greatest Hits for Ismael Rivera that I mentioned. It has several of my favorite songs on it. They've done a lot of different compilations and some of the single discs ones (esp. the La Herencia series, I think) are good (but I understand wanting a larger sample than that).

Personally, I don't think this stuff is suddenly going to go out of print. I don't think there's that much reason to panic, but I wish Emusica had found a way to make this profitable enough.

I mean, I could try to recommend "important" albums, and then I would include something like Larry Harlow's Salsa, but it's not a personal favorite, mostly because I'm not big on charanga (basically that violin and flute combination you sometimes here). But even that has grown on me a bit over time.

I have four individual albums by Rivera already, and plan to pick up a couple more sometime soon.

I hear you on charanga. I got the double-disc compilation by Johnny Pacheco and didn't like much of it at all for exactly that reason. The violin and flute just got on my nerves.

The opening of Eddie Palmieri's "Viejo Scarron" (from Vamonos P'al Monte) irritates me intolerably. There's just something about the chords or something that I find torturous. I don't care too much for "Caminando" either, for similar gut-level/inexplicable reasons.

"Revolt/La Libertad Logico" and "Vamonos Pal Monte" are great; everything else on there is either grating or just okay.

I like this Andy Harlow cover of "Tin Tin Deo" (which I only just discovered was written by Dizzy Gillespie and Chano Pozo):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqj82JjlrNk

I'm not sure I ever should have started this thread, since I still don't know enough to do the subject justice. For example, right now I'm just listening for the first time to a Roberto Roena album from 1977 that I wasn't even aware existed, and the first track is great.

i listen to a LOT of salsa from the 70's. and i know very little. i wish you could meet this guy pablo i know. he's very cool and very knowledgeable. full of good info. he did a book on latin album covers. he bought some records from me the other night and i learned, like, at least five different things that i didn't know.

i listen to a LOT of salsa from the 70's.

You never mention it though. :( Or maybe you do, but on rolling noise board listening threads I don't normally read.

I think I have a decent mental map of what's out there, I just have still heard only a small percentage of it.

This is the Roberto Roena album:

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/66/42/bcdf793509a0df6cb7ce7110.L._SL500_AA200_.jpg

The sound is so-so, but:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N9xBdS0VBE

i love la lupe's queen of latin soul album. i have a few other fania comps. but i want singers with ballads as powerful as those on la lupes album. any tips for what to get? a lot of the comps seem to focus on the dance side of things, even the celia cruz comp i have does this.

this cover is amazing btw -

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2678601

http://s.dsimg.com/image/R-2678601-1296232142.jpeg

You might want to mostly go back in time for there and dig through the classic bolero singers. Most of La Lupe's ballads are specifically boleros, I think. To stick to the Fania era, how much Hector Lavoe have you heard? He definitely covers a broad emotional range and recorded a bunch of boleros. How about Cheo Feliciano's less upbeat material?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SNnVKehNyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og2wKYwnosI

This thread is so weak. I feel like I missed an opportunity with this thread. 70s salsa deserves better, but then again, it's all there, an open secret waiting to be discovered. There's still so much of it I haven't heard, even from central artists.

To me, the pacing of this Justo Betancourt bolero has a theatrical quality closer to La Lupe's style. Maybe you would like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJT4LDBAcDo

As long as we are doing famous singers doing boleros, I love this very odd Angel Canales version of the classic "Dos Gardenias" (but I wouldn't say he spends much time doing the type of thing you're looking for):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13b052hBTtI

I don't have a very in-depth knowledge of the bolero tradition, but this 4-CD box set (which I own) is pretty nice. Though I could do without the one disc devoted to Mexican-style bolero trios.

http://www.amazon.com/Boleromania-80-Boleros-En-CDS/dp/B0007V9X78

This material is either all or mostly from before the 70s.

Helpfully "currently unavailable." I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to find one way or another.

I find Lavoe boleros a little too wrist-slitty at the moment. I just don't need to go there right now.

boleros is exactly what i want - thanks.

i think i might just buy more la lupe actually.

does anyone know anything about ray rodriguez? been listening a lot to his Ray Rodriguez Y Su Orquesta Lp and in all my basically ignorant enthusiam, loving it!

Sorry to say I'm really not familiar with Ray Rodriguez, but I once heard something by him on the radio that I liked enough to add the album it came from to my long-term to-buy list.

I never mentioned to titchy that there's a Celia Cruz collection of nothing by boleros, and I've liked what I've heard from it. I probably should own it, but don't:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41BYY05M4EL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Today I was walking around and I heard this awesome salsa music coming out of a parked car but with this very 70s sounding synth in the intro. I liked it so much that I asked the dude what it was, and it was Roberto Roena. He showed me the CD, but it was just a bootleggy-looking thing like one of those CDs you get at the little Spanish record stores, so it could have been from any record.

So, anyone know of a Roberto Roena record with synths on it?

I have no idea. I'm glad this has been expanded beyond Fania, though -- I love the Fania sound but there is a lot more out there. Lots of stuff I haven't heard too!!

I'll see what I can come up with, once I'm off work. I think I've probably only heard 1/3 of Roena's output at this point, maybe less. He definitely did some "progressive" sorts of things, sometimes successfully, sometimes less so. I don't think this is the one you're looking for, but La 8Va Maravilla is great and doesn't seem to be talked about that much. Of course, it's also out of print, but it's not impossible to find otherwise.

I would guess late 70s/very early 80s, but I suppose that's not too helpful. Anything else about the song? Was it in the usual clave rhythm, or was it different? (Roena worked/works with Afro-Rican folkloric rhythms, Brazilian rhtyhms, etc. a fair amount.)

I have Roena's first 10 albums in my iPod, but don't have time to go through them right now. Will check tomorrow.

Did you buy most of those as downloads? I probably need to do more of that.

from Roena's wiki site:

Complementing the musicality of the salsa group was always the showmanship inherent in Roberto Roena. Dying his hair in new colors, playing percussion in his underwear and sporting a harness so he could “fly” around the stage of New York City's Madison Square Garden were some of the tricks that he used to stand out among the other groups in vogue. In fact, a noted journalist that followed Apollo Sound once remarked that they were “the first group in Puerto Rico with a system of psychedelic lights and go-go girls.”

Yeah, I only have about four on physical CD; the rest I got digitally. They're all killer. The first couple are pretty weird - he's got songs in English, including covers of Sly and the Family Stone's "Sing a Simple Song" and Blood, Sweat & Tears' "Spinning Wheel."

I did do a half-hearted search of the Roena I have (especially one CD I suspected in particular) but never found a song that fit that description.

Not a big Ray Barretto fan, I particularly like this song (though I haven't heard the whole album):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_-fvX6E8mI

I need to check into him further.

So I see that Will Hermes has a new book out about music in NYC from 73 to 77 called "Love Goes to Buildings on Fire" that apparently includes some writing about Fania

From New Year’s Day 1973 to New Year’s Eve 1977, the book moves panoramically from post-Dylan Greenwich Village, to the arson-scarred South Bronx barrios where salsa and hip-hop were created, to the Lower Manhattan lofts where jazz and classical music were reimagined, to ramshackle clubs like CBGBs and The Gallery, where rock and dance music were hot-wired for a new generation. As they remade the music, the musicians at the center of the book invented themselves: Willie Colón and the Fania All-Stars renting Yankee Stadium to take salsa to the masses, New Jersey locals Bruce Springsteen and Patti Smith claiming the jungleland of Manhattan as their own, Grandmaster Flash transforming the turntable into a musical instrument, David Byrne and Talking Heads proving that rock music “ain’t no foolin’ around.” Will Hermes was there—venturing from his native Queens to the small dark rooms where the revolution was taking place—and in Love Goes to Buildings on Fire he captures the creativity, drive, and full-out lust for life of the great New York musicians of those years, who knew that the music they were making would change the world.

http://www.amazon.com/Love-Goes-Buildings-Fire-Changed/dp/0865479801

The new 2CD Ismael Rivera compilation (part of Fania's "A Man And His Music" series) is fucking great. Goes all the way from the '50s to 1980. 45 songs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Mn4iI-4qw

is my jam lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=jpvR9q9ECM8#t=255s

entire fania all stars in africa concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS6QB8r0vcM

I love everything about this -- johnny pacheco's crazy kids show host act, the way it's shot, the seemingly overwhelming numerosity of the band (partly an illusion), the coked-up happy vibe of it, bobby valentin's sick behind the beat basslines against on top of the beat percussion, roberto roena crazy legs dancing followed by a badass 70s five

sry, this is the complete concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2-ZmO13_dI

thx for posting, need to watch this

there's a record of the concert too, on spotify. doesn't seem to have the whole thing, but has some neat additional bits, e.g. what sounds like a soukous band welcoming them at the airport and maybe jamming with some of the fania guys?

cross currents between african and latin american pop music post-WWII are really fascinating

like those vids. feel like they could use a few more guys up on stage, though.

yeah, kind of a threadbare lineup, very minimal

The CD (which was recently reissued as a CD/DVD set - I own it) is very weird; there's almost no music from the concert, it's all rehearsal stuff and the aforementioned recording of African musicians, etc. - it's like a Smithsonian Folkways album or something. But the DVD, which has the concert footage as well as rehearsal, backstage, footage of bandmembers just wandering around Kinshasa, etc., is killer.

want

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/15/arts/music/johnny-pacheco-dead.html

RIP Johnny Pacheco, co-founder of Fania, a Dominican born , NYC raised flautist, songwriter, bandleader who brought salsa & charanga to the world. Was involved with a number of Celia Cruz albums

RIP... absolute legend

https://img.discogs.com/xCHnJRHRvKFVVl5tKkzIy6goJnc=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2952899-1536074905-9015.jpeg.jpg

RIP.

I didn’t see any personal reminiscences on Friendbook. At first I thought maybe people had some beef with him but he guess he just didn’t really play with any of the Latin Jazz cats that are around now.

On twitter Willie Colon took a brief break from tweeting right-wing memes, to tweet 6 times re Pacheco.

I need to go back to the Pacheco & Cruz albums

Okay, it was pointed out to me that there was a personal recollection from the violinist Sam Bardfeld, who is a friend of friends and plays with a lot of name acts.

Ugh, don't like the way that sounds.

Been slowly digging into this scene over the last year. Don't know much Pacheco, but i stumbled on some Willie Rosario that I really liked. Justo Betancourt's Leguleya No album is my favorite so far.

Willie Colon's Twitter feed is... disappointing.

there was a period of time when the Zavvi i had access to during my lunch hour was getting in Fania cd reissues overstocks and selling them off for £1 each.
despite not being into salsa at all, i grabbed what i could when i could (about 12 albums in the end).
when the sun comes out i still put them on and enjoy them more and more each time.

A 2020 article on Alegre Records who recorded Pacheco before he later co-founded Fania

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/alegre-records-history/

Here he is with fellow legend, Queen Mother Celia Cruz and his collective Fania All Stars in Zaire in 1974. Johnny Pacheco conducting the musicians and dancing w Celia like a boss. It’s the joy.
RIP Johnny Pacheco. pic.twitter.com/NUKYlxiKgN

— Karla ~ Ovalle (@KarlaValley) February 15, 2021

that rules!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/17/arts/music/johnny-pacheco-fania-records-playlist.html

Brief bio plus 15 cuts Pacheco was involved with

https://elpais.com/babelia/2021-02-25/johnny-pacheco-del-nuevo-tumbao-al-tumbao-anejo.html?ssm=TW_CC?event_log=oklogin&prod=REGCRARTBAB&o=cerrbab

The Cuban writer Leonardo Padura published last year Los rostros de la salsa (Tusquets), a book in which the author offers an intimate portrait of the genre through conversations with its main icons, such as Rubén Blades, Willie Colón, Juan Formell and Johnny Pacheco. We reproduce in full the one that he maintained in 1995 with the latter, who died on February 16 , in which he reviews his career from his frenetic adventures in New York in the seventies to the creation of the Fania record company and its consolidation as a name indispensable of Latin music.

An interesting interview translated to English

in addition to the charanga I had an ensemble that played in the style of the Sonora Matancera, Arsenio and Chapotín, and in '64 I was left alone with this group. So I started with thatCuban tumbao , but I added a tres and instead of the timbales I included a bongo and that's where "the new Pacheco tumbao " began, which would later be known as the " tumbao ", and now as the " old tumbao ", because I've been 30 years with the same formula. Since I learned it with Cugat, I always say that if a formula works, there is no reason to change it, and with that tumbao I have had the good fortune to record many of the greats of Latin music: Daniel Santos, Julio González, Pete Conde Rodríguez, Héctor Casanova, and my divine goddess, Celia Cruz.

I have the English translation of that book, Faces Of Salsa, and it is a very good read.

I should get that book

Thursday interview 7:30 et with Cita Rodriguez , singer w/ Mambo Legends Orchestra and daughter of Pete El Conde Rodriguez , Fania artist, sponsored by the Hostos Center for Arts & Culture as part of the Conversaciones Musica series

https://www.facebook.com/1661302984112144/posts/2861425087433255/?d=n

RIP Fania label legendary pianist Larry Harlow

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/20/1029760076/larry-harlow-salsa-music-icon-dead

RIP Larry. Have been obsessed with this record for a while.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9uwafGrlM

Thanks. So many cool little elements to “Dame un Tipi”— the spoken tone of the woman vocalist, the steady driving clave backbeat via Harlow and others, the various instrumental touches thrown on top

The whole album is delicious. It's a shame it's so ridiculously expensive on Discogs!

60th anniversary reissue campaign website :

https://mediakits.concord.com/p/fania-60th-anniversary/index.html

Nice. Lots of vinyl reissues and other stuff too