REM: A Catalogue Called Into Question

I've found that I don't have any desire to leave an older song of theirs on when it comes on the radio and, after receiving 5 of the recent WB reissues for review (static multimedia.com -- features), that I have little to no desire to explore those albums any more.

Pity they didn't release a recorded version of it from back then...

reveal is the first r.e.m. album i didn't buy (including the pre-green ones i didn't get around to buying until high school).

this sounds like the beginning of a standardized test question...."If Reveal is one of the worst, and Automatic for the People is one of the best, how many times will Jack listen to Dead Letter Office?"

I don't think the original version of "Bad Day" ("PSA") was all that good. It wasn't quite finished at the time. "Animal" is the other single from In Time. Of the two new songs from that record, I think it's vastly superior.

I'm quite the opposite, I find the majority of 'Up' rather lacklustre and the songs quite weak, but 'Reveal', I think is a little gem, the album they should have released after AFTP. Never got around to investigating 'Around the sun', too many other things to check out, though no doubt I'll pick it up from a bargain bin someday.

What divided most REM fans was the clarity vs mumble debate. If you take your mumble tendencies too far you end up with "Fables of the Reconstruction"; if however you're too clear you produce "Automatic For The People." Both albums have their supporters (they're on this board) - me, I'll take Chronic Town, Murmur, Reckoning, and Out of Time.

REM is one of those bands that always inspires New-Adventures-in-Hi-Fi-is-their-most-underrated-album threads. I'm as guilty as anyone. My favorite underrated album is "Life's Rich Pageant."

for some reason i though alex in nyc had created this thread. the thread title reminds me of some of his thread titles.

Lifes Rich Pageant is underrated?

That's what I get for falling asleep under the Rock Of Solipsism again...

For what it's worth, the last few R.E.M. singles in reverse chronological order have been "Wanderlust," "Electron Blue," "Aftermath," "Leaving New York," "Animal," and "Bad Day."

Matthew OTMFM. If you let "Leaving New York" ruin "So. Central Rain" or even "E-Bow The Letter," there's something very wrong with your logic. You can take this to any extreme: did any Beatles fans throw up their hands in disgust and left after "Free As A Bird?"

R.E.M. should have gone with "Electron Blue" as the first single. It might have colored people's perception of the album differently. "Leaving New York" is an embarrassing atrocity ("I love you! Forever!"), ATS is a weak album, and Reveal an all-too-polite one, but they can still write a song ("The Ascent Of Man" or "Animal" from the greatest hits CD).

It's not all lost. Buck strikes me as a guy who reads his own reviews; don't be surprised if he pushes the next album toward a more interesting sound... Unfortunately, Stipe's newfound interest in narrative lyrics probably can't be stopped.

If I was marketing Around The Sun, I would've made the title track the lead single cos it's the R.E.M. that people know and love. It's more or less Man On The Moon Part III. "Leaving NY" is a step too far into adult contemporary, and "Electron Blue" would be too alienating. "Aftermath" and "Wanderlust" are decent radio singles, but neither are particularly exciting.

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Where can I DL "I'm Gonna DJ"?

This has been the penultimate song of every single show of the Around The Sun tour. It's a good old fashioned rave-up.

"Death is pretty final / I'm collecting vinyl / I'm gonna DJ at the end of the woooooorrrrrllld!"

This is mindblowing to me. Humanity's varying taste never ceases to amaze me.

I've never seen REM live, and given how much of a fan I am of everything Out of Time through Up (minus, sorry, Monster), that's too bad. I liked that "Life and How To Live It" bootleg you posted ages ago, Matthew. (And I almost never find any satisfaction in live recordings.) But given the scale and cost of shows they play these days, I suspect I'll never see them!

And Matthew, that's the first time I've heard you (or anyone) suggest Britt Daniel/Jim Eno for REM but it is an amazingly good idea, stupendously good. Please, REM, listen to the man!

I don't know what's pulling them down... the lyrics are definitely a big part of it, but I loved lots of what Stipe wrote on "Reveal"--the second half of that one is really really good. The most recent record, in terms of its lyrical quality, is like an hour-long version of U2's "Elevation."

Anyway, the short answer to this question is: no.

I strongly recommend seeing R.E.M. live, even if it's a bit expensive. They put on a great show and generally play very good setlists that evenly mix big hits, fan favorites, revived oldies, and new material. They still bring it live.

It's funny, I don't really say that "Bad Day" is corny for the lyrics, but mostly cos I think the chorus is a little dweeby and I'm not very fond of the harmonica. It's a good song, but very very far from being one of my favorites. It's played very often nowadays, and I felt like I kinda lucked out when they didn't do it at Madison Square Garden last year.

But I cannot imagine anything--not a duet with Mariah Carey, not a Disney-film soundtrack, not a Stone Temple Pilots tribute album, not a rock opera--that could ever conceivably change my opinion of "Seven Chinese Brothers."

Carry on.

I think it would be a terrible idea for them to work with one of their older producers, because for one, they just plain aren't going to recreate that magic and it would set up horrible expectations that they couldn't live up to. They need to get out of their routine and work with capable people who will challenge them rather than act like a yes-man. The Spoon albums get a feeling that R.E.M. need now - it wouldn't throw out the more sophisticated arrangements that they favor now, but it wouldn't neuter them with gloss. They need drums that sound real and alive. They don't need to smother every track in overdubs. Bill Rieflin is a good drummer, they shouldn't lose him, but rather try to get what he brings to them in the live setting on the record.

Pat McCarthy's greatest crime (and I'm sad to say that Mills was probably complicit in this) was the ruining of Beat A Drum from Reveal. The piano "demo" on the Imitation of Life single or In Time CD2 was spare and beautiful, proof that REM can still write a stunner. But come the album it had been smothered in pseudo-Beach Boys gloss, losing all its melancholy beauty.

I suggest Easter and Dixon because the first two R.E.M. albums are the only ones where the production is somewhat radical and has some real character. Would an O'Rourke album or a McEntire album or a Spoon guy album or an Albini album or whatever have that same quality? I want R.E.M. to be GREAT, not average.

I wouldn't characterize Spoon as a power pop band, and I don't think there's anything "OK" about their production style - it's easily some of the best produced rock music in years, aside from Albini.

The majority of material in recent years has been flat. While many an arument can be made against the muddy/mumblyness of Fabels or Rekoning, i'll take the level of sonic texture worked into the production of those performances over the closed door straightness of the new material.

I think it's foolish to say theyve embarrassed themselves or ruined the whole picture, but between the blatant sentimentality of songs from Out of Time on and the often misdirected production since Green I have entirely lost interest, save a bit of a flare-up around Up.

I'm willing to go on the cutting board and wager that the boys have just grown up. and maybe the work is still ok, but i rarely find a place to stick in my fork.

It could also be that REM have used up their mojo and are beyond hope, which is not a bad thing either. Every band must end.

who knew that he was the McCarthy they were Exhuming?

I think the point is that he was more than a drummer. As a talented songwriter and multi instrumentalist, he acted as a good editor for the others.

And he has the best eyebrows in rock!

Automatic For The People is the most overrated R.E.M. album. It may be their Big Classic Album, but it's certainly not the be-all end-all of their catalog as some people like to make it out to be.

Hi-Fi can't possibly be overrated, unless you're going by Murmurs.com hardcore fans.

(Oh, and Mike Mills is the guy who wrote most of "Tongue," not Bill Berry. The Bill/"Tongue" connection is that it was the song the band was playing when he had his aneurysm.)

But REM may have exhausted their bag of tricks already. There's no dishonor in the band admitting this and calling it a day...and, damn, you know a lot more about Berry's contribution than I did. Doesn't this prove my point - that his departure was a blow from which the band has as yet failed to recover?

And have you ever been bitten by an anti-rockist? Sharp fangs those motherfuckers have.

I agree that their most fantastic music is their early music. But you never know what's going to happen in the future. If R.E.M. have been more awesome into their forties (and I think Peter turns 50 this year) than the rock dinosaurs from the generation before them were when they hit their forties, who's to say that they won't take it up another notch at some point and just be fantastic?

x-post: Alfred, all artists are not born with just one bag of tricks.

....WITH CHRIS CUNTING MARTIN ON BACKING VOCALS!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Around The Sun and Reveal were weak, but y'know, I've always liked to think they still had something decent in them. But the decline just got several fathoms deeper.

If i had first heard them within the last ten years i might be skewed by the particular approach of "Automatic..." or "Up" or whatever - but their craft is honed and their work product doesn't vary that much, so, of course, many-o-listener may view it as superior.

I think that proper digestion of a catalogue is best engaged chronologically. The context for each work is more revealing when we know the path that has already beed travelled.

Look at painting; when Picasso (or any great artist) became an established cubist master, his work, while still brilliant, became of a certain mold. His earlier developmental work not only demonstrates the process it also displays actual glimpses of those "a-ha" revelations.

So to do musicians—take Miles Davis; sure, one can listen to something like "Bitches Brew" and enjoy it on its own merits - but a much more thorough (and perhaps rewarding) path eminates at "Birth of the Cool", works through the Prestige days and then on to the Gil Evans period and so on and so on until you get TO that particular title.

But we're here discussing those lowly Athens boys - not good, man; their best days have long since past, and i know it to be true, because i was there to see it happen.

Swap "grown" for "metastasized."

Michael Stipe - In the Sun (Gulf Coast Relief) (Feat. Chris Martin)
Michael Stipe - In the Sun (JAW Breakers Remix) (Feat. Chris Martin, Mix by Justin Timberlake and will.i.am)
Michael Stipe - In the Sun (Feat. Joseph Arthur)
Michael Stipe - In the Sun (Michael Stipe)
Michael Stipe - In the Sun (w/ Coldplay) (Recorded Live at Austin City Limits)
Michael Stipe - In the Sun (Free Acoustic Couch Rehearsal) (Michael Stipe/Joseph Arthur)

Christ!

As a once-REM-maniac, I think they're atrocious now, and have been for a long time. E-Bow's the last thing that really shook me like the old stuff, and that was 10 years ago (Doesn't seem that long ago, damn).

I played Eponymous a few weeks ago, and it sounds great, though. Worth revisiting if you haven't heard it for a while.

By the time most of us got into music, it was the late '70s or early '80s. Elvis was dead, the Beatles had long since broken up, the Kinks were doing _Give The People What They Want_, the Who were doing "Eminence Front," the Stones were onto "Tattoo You," Rod Stewart was in his "Young Turks" period, and Jefferson Starship emerged from their MOR period to screech through "Jane" and "Find Your Way Back." You would never know that these were once some of the coolest people in the world; in any event we weren't around from the beginning to understand what went wrong.

Most of us who turned to punk and new wave did so as a reaction to all that - to have something that was current and still vital. But, of course, we barely missed out on punk in real time, too. We did, however, have REM. As with the '60s dinosaurs, you really had to be there to understand just how amazing they were in their prime, and how connected their audience felt to them. Every college town had a few bands whose goal was to sound just like REM. They were like the fucking Beatles on a smaller scale. And now, just like the Stones fan who stuck it out through Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge, we hope against hope that somehow the magic will return. But it never does, and the now-faded band plays on because they've still got a lucrative career and what else are they going to do?

They should cut a new version of "Pretty Persuasion" and call it that. Or Weird Al should. Either way.

PS mike, Rod Stewart's "Young Turks" is GREAT!! "Patty gave birth to a ten pound . . . BABY BOY-OY!"

But name another band that was consistently great for more than ten years. The Stones? Not after 1972. Led Zeppelin? Had a great eight or nine year run. The Who? Talking Heads? It's a short, short list.

Examples more listenable than the collective discography of the Damned.

And who's gone ten years? Rock is a game for the young (take that, Mr. Pollard) - Jazz, on the other hand.... you better get some chops first.

Honestly? Because I love their older (pre-Up) music so much, I want to believe they still have it in them. Just like Lester Bangs wanted the Rolling Stones to deliver something good again, as he wrote from time to time about the agony of being a Stones fan after 1972. It's the same thing. Hey, hey, I'm a believer. Maybe I'm not surpised, exactly, but the word "disappointed" fits the bill.

And I'd like to think they have it in them. Their old friend Robyn Hitchcock still makes good albums. Then again, he doesn't have a million dollar business (REM Inc.) and celebrity superstardom hanging around his neck, either.

but to answer the original question of this thread, nothing can dampen my love for Chronic thru (and including) Up. tho i dont think Hi-Fi was the highwater mark others seem to.

Peter Buck's guitar is much less prominent on their albums from Up onward, to say the least. Just listen to "Imitation of Life" and "Driver 8" - similar chord structures, but you can barely hear Buck on the latter. And "I'm Gonna DJ" is horrible.

Hi-Fi was a record I was lukewarm on when it was released (I thought Monster was much better, and I still sorta think that), but it's grown on me considerably over time, especially the low-key, moody songs like Undertow," "E-Bow" and "How the West Was Won." And if the bandhad broken up after Bill Berry quit, "Electrolite" would have been a perfect sign-off. But I think it's too long and a couple of songs should have been dropped.

Also, "I'll Take the Rain".

'Reveal' convinced me I'd never again need to listen to a new REM record.

But I still love the first 6 or 7 years output, when I hear it.

To me, that's what made the Up tour exciting. Helluva lot more exciting than the record. I began appreciating stuff like "The Apologist" and "Walk Unafraid" only after hearing the live versions.

Also, let me quickly use my soapbox to shill once more for Stipe's excellent "L'Hotel" on the otherwise semi-dreadful Gainsbourg comp.

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1. Automatic For The People
2. Reveal
3. Murmur
4. Reckoning
5. Around The Sun
6. Up

And those six are way better than everything else.