Yacht Rock

She knows how much I enjoy the Yacht Rock genre (especially Mike "The Beard" MCDonald"), so how caould I not...

Would this be the right place to request a Rough Guide to Yacht Rock?

RFI: I'm making a Yacht Rock mix, of all the good and the bad. Ferrinstance, "What a Fool Believes" is a great song. "Sweet Freedom" is bloody awful. I digress.

What is the song near the beginning of the first episode, the next song you hear after "Sweet Freedom," that starts playing just as the scene wipes in, with the tinkly guitar? It was a huge hit, I know. But what is it? It's like some kinda proto-lite-rock-song. I need it for my mix.

Also, I need some other gaps filled in. The list I have is too sparse. I have:

Kenny Loggins - This Is It
Steely Dan - Peg
Doobie Brothers - What a Fool Believes
Hall and Oates - Sara Smile
Christopher Cross - Sailing
Loggins and Messina - Whenever I Call You Friend
Steely Dan - Time Out of Mind
Doobie Brothers - How Do the Fools Survive?
Michael McDonald - Sweet Freedom
Kenny Loggins - I'm Alright

And some non-canonical stuff, like Spyro Gyra. Man, if that's not yacht, I don't know what is.

Anyway. Help would be appreciated. Thkx.

Yes it would!

Franke & the Knockouts, "Sweetheart"
Pablo Cruise, "Place in the Sun"
Little River Band, "Reminiscing"

p.s. "Whenever I Call You Friend" was Loggins & Nicks, not Messina. :)

Little River Band is perfect.

Because:
Lady Love - Jon Lucien
Help Me - Joni Mitchell
Honolulu City Lights - The Beamer Brothers

It took a couple of viewings, but I think it's up there with the back-alley songwriting dual.

Between the hair and spectacles, Toto ruled.

Stay smooth!

Bless you J. D. Ryznar. I saw these films for the first time today. I have loved this intricate, ever so smooth, late 70's Fagen/McDonald inflected cheeseball music for such a long time, but never knew what to call it. Yacht Rock it is. I eagerly await the 5th installment, and the sure to be heavy dose of 80's Michael McDonald that it will contain (Sweet Freedom, I Keep Forgettin', Yah Mo Be There).

Since it seems you check on this thread from time to time:

The movies are brilliant, I particularly enjoy the use of Breezin' by George Benson in the first episode, Jeff Baxter's slow nod of understanding, Jeff Porcaro's three step plan to seduce Michael McDonald and the rage, passion and wild unkempt mane of John Oates.

I second the call for Seals and Croft (and Player, the Little River Band and "Games People Play" by the Spinners). If I was on the correct coast I would beesech you to let me play Jim Seals or...guy from Player...in an upcoming installment.

Air Supply needs to be in there somewhere don't they? Were they not the kings of Yacht Rock?

Cetera's savage beating at the hands of Oates notwithstanding, 80's Chicago should be featured prominently as well.

This music is brilliant, and your films are obviously a labor of love. Keep it up.

Here's my digital signature saying "this is a free idea to be used by the makers of yacht rock at their own will, although no offense taken if used, rejected, abused, or otherwise. :) "

More Pablo Cruise, please!

Once you actually read the lyrics to What a Fool Believes, you can understand its shittiness in totally new ways.

at the Southside Lounge

41 Broadway (Wythe & Kent Sts.)

Williamsburg, Brooklyn 11211

An Evening of Yacht Rock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacht_rock

with Tedward

Starts at 10PM

Episode 1
Michael McDonald-Sweet Freedom
George Benson-Breezin'
Loggins & Messina-Sailin the wind
Kenny Loggins-Whenever I call You Friend
Doobie Brothers-What a Fool Believes
Doobie Brothers-Sweet Feelin'
Doobie Brothers-You Never Change
Hall and Oates-Alley Katz
Kenny Loggins - What a fool Believes

Episode 2
Michael McDonald-Sweet Freedom
Steely Dan: Peg
Doobie Brothers - What a fool believes
Hall and Oates-Sara Smile
Hall and Oates-Portable Radio
Kenny Loggins-This is It
Kenny Loggins-Love has come of age
Christopher Cross-Sailing

Episode 3
Michael McDonald-Sweet Freedom
Bad Caddyshack Theme - Rick Johnson
Steely Dan-King of the World
Kenny Loggins- This is it (Live)
Steely Dan-Time Out of Mind
Kenny Loggins - Keep the Fire
Doobie Brothers-How do the Fools Survive
Journey - Lights
Journey - Anyway you want it
Steely Dan - Kid Charlamagne
Kenny Loggins-I'm Alright

Episode 4
Something by Benetictine Monks
Michael McDonald-Sweet Freedom
Toto-Hold the Line
Toto-I Won't Hold You Back
Toto-Make Believe
Doobie Brothers - What a Fool Believes
Doobie Brothers - You Never Change
Christopher Cross-Ride the Wind
Loggins & Messina - Sailing the wind
Kenny Loggins/Steve Perry-Don't Fight it
Michael McDonald-Love Lies
Toto-I'll supply the Love
Toto-Rosanna

Episode 5
Samuel Barber- Adagio for Strings
Michael McDonald-Sweet Freedom
Michael McDonald - Believe in It
Michael Jackson - Beat it
Michael Jackson - Thriller
Kenny Loggins - I Gotta Try
Michael McDonald - I Gotta Try
Christopher Cross - Sailing
Kenny Loggins - This is it
Van Halen - Eruption
Michael Jackson - Human Nature

The acting is horrible, though. I know it's "supposed to be," but to me it's just sort of embarrassing. Keep trying, I guess, or get people who can act, seriously!

me = worst friend ever.
yacht rock = proof that the world is way too small.

i am thinking of doing an official screening out here.

He also wants me to suggest, in case Hollywood Steve and company are still in our harbor, that an episode attempt to explain the Doobies' "Real Love," released concurrently with McDonald's solo album and yet featuring essentially no Doobie contribution. My brother avers that it's the smoothest thing McDonald has in fact ever recorded. Was it his payoff to the Doobs to let him leave the band? Or did being with the band provide some sort of restraining focus that enabled McDonald to achieve his greatest heights?

Lest we forget

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Sprad/jethrotull2.jpg

Thanks a fucking lot -- Mayor Bloomberg just approved the rezoning for this. Your so-called hipsters are about to become as scarce as Indians at Jamestown settlement. Then you're fucked, because we invented everything, including drinking.

Hmm, ironic casino...note to self, call gaming commission.

BTW, since it was expressed in a different thread: HOLLYWOOD STEVE FOR EMP KEYNOTE!

A task for y'all in cyberspace: my brother, an original-wave Yacht Rock devotee, wants me to see if I can track down the SCTV sketch referred to in Yacht Rock 4. Does anyone happen to have this lying around or something?

Episode 84, Volume One Disc Three of the DVDs, same episode as the Poocharé All Meat Dog Food commercial and the first Mrs Falbo's Tiny Town.

"See, I hit him on accident, but then I kidnapped him ON PURPOSE."

Any chance of a tracklisting for episodes 6, 7, 8?

Not anymore.

It ain't bad, but with the last few installments, Yacht Rock seems to be in a pattern of alternating between episodes in its "classic" format (lots of different bands, crammed full of small jokes) and curious side tangents (the Jethro Tull thing, Dr. Dre). I definitely enjoy the classic ones (1-5, 8) the best, but I kind of like that they do keep indulging in these footnote-like episodes whose sole purpose is to illuminate deliciously minor pieces of Yacht trivia. That's an ILMy spirit that I can't hate even if it makes me fear for the show's ratings survival.

I still REALLY REALLY want to see a story where Rosanna Arquette runs off with Peter Gabriel, finding his freakish antics and experimental music a refreshing change after all the smooth. Unfortunately, his search for jagged new world music sounds leads them on a trip to Africa, where he's so moved that he composes the brilliantly yacht-y "In Your Eyes." Just as Rosanna is moved to doubt that Peter is the man she thought he was, Toto (who have been following sneakily the whole time) unleash "Africa," and Rosanna realizes where she really belongs.

JD Ryznar, if you're reading this, please steal my idea. And also know that thanks to Yacht Rock, I now own and love Toto I and IV, as well as X-Static by Hall & Oates. Y'all rock.

Discussion topic for the rest of us: favorite moment/character in Yacht Rock? I think Loggins steals every scene he's in, with his smugly satisfied "I'm Alright" and his unbelievably nuanced lip-synch for "Don't Fight It" taking the cake.

Stockholm syndrome, this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Yacht_rock

Hard Place
Totally Radd
Josh Ottum
with DJ oonce oonce of Tigerbeat6 Records

155 Fell St. At Van Ness
8 p.m.
$8
Advance tix available at www.virtuous.com

JOSH OTTUM 9:00
Haven't heard of Josh Ottum? You will. Often featuring members of
Crystal Skulls and Sufjan Stevens' band, this delightful emo-synth
outfit will be releasing an album on Millpond this Fall. Expect
songs that make you think of looking at a warm cabin on Christmas
Eve while you're stuck out in the snow...but you're with all your
best friends and you have big bottle of whiskey...so everything's
cool. CAN BE CLASSIFIED AS YACHT ROCK (Steely Dan, Hall & Oates)
with a big emphasis on love, hope, fear and possibility (The Beach
Boys, The Flaming Lips).

www.myspace.com/joshottum
www.millpondrecords.com

Ironic, considering that "What a Fool Believes," perhaps the epitome of yacht rock, is all about NO love, NO hope, NO fear, and NO possibility.

http://www.sdcitybeat.com/article.php?id=4456

Sail on, sailor

Anyway, though. Yacht Rock despite a few dud moments and genuinely bewildering directions (how did they survive the Jethro Tull episode?) has made its mark; the term will serve (with or without a Wiki entry), and I'll be confusing people by quoting it for years to come.

Viva la portable radio.

I also never understood why they never brought Stevie Nicks into the mix.

Also, I'm working on a Yacht Rock story and I came across some interesting tangenital YR trivia: When Becker and Fagen were in a pre-Steely Dan band called the Leather Canary, their drummer was Chevy Chase.

Honestly, and I'm definitely to blame partially for this, I think the creators got a bit sick of the fans proposing so many ideas for future episodes. At that point, the show pretty much accomplished its goal.. when fans can write a screenplay for a future episode given his/her knowledge of the family of bands in question.

Also, it was a matter of time before some crazy fan would try to sue the creators for "ripping off" an idea, when there's only so many quasi-real-life scenarios you can concoct involving Michael McDonald anyway that it would be inevitable. (yeah, even if the show was non-profit, I wouldn't put it past somebody out there to try to sue, regardless, in such a scenario.)

Anyone check out the rest of Channel 101's shows? Is there an ILE thread about that? Obviously there's a pretty low S:D ratio, but I've had a lot of laughs from "McCourt's In Session," and this month's frontrunner, "Chad Vader" gets tremendous laughs out of a premise that sounds doomed when you try to explain it to somebody.

As for other Channel 101 stuff, Thriller Chiller Theater is pretty damn funny. (Noone else seemed to think so, though, as there is only one episode.)

I'm more saddened that Pablo Cruise never made an appearance. I guess no one knew what they look or act like. Myself included.

http://www.last.fm/tag/yacht%20rock

http://www.houstonpress.com/blogs/?p=40#more-40

And sadly, it's no longer tagged for deletion on the basis of being a neologism

http://www.timelife.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=9572&

Jaxon when is the next Yacht Rocky night in SF? I need some advance notice so I can dress for success and also buy a Yacht.

I just saw Hollywood Steve playing a huge nerd (who knew!) in a Boost Mobile phone commercial.

this thread is now the 'hollywood steve spottings' thread.

from wiki

Episode XI
Estimated release date - Dec 27, 2007

DON'T TEASE ME, BRO

from wiki

Episode XI
Estimated release date - Dec 27, 2007

DON'T TEASE ME, BRO

-- gershy, Friday, 28 December 2007 07:49 (19 minutes ago) Link

they had an event at the knitting factory nyc tonight; maybe it premiered there? the event listing is pretty ambiguous as to whether there is actually an episode 11 though

They should make more. Seems like there's we're definitely an audience for this.

Nothing on the website yet.
Anyone catch Ryznar and Hollywood Steve on VH1's 100 greatest songs of the 90s?

I was thinking about to go to NYC for that party tonight but, eh. I do hope they put up a new episode though.

11 is up: http://www.channel101.com/shows/show.php?show_id=152

It's pretty epic. 'ya mo.k. to drive?'

"mellow, but not smooth..."

hollywood steve lost a lot of weight

"mellow, but not smooth" is definitely the breakout quote

"Those weren't people James Ingram, those were Jimmy Buffett fans."
"How about a Me.L.T.?"

JD Ryznar, thank you for bringing back Yacht Rock and Hunter Stair.

i now have a yacht rock edit of i can't go for that by hall and oates track on constant loop.

Mark,
please share it!

i already have, but as blog-plugs are frowned upon, here it is.

cheers Mark!

here's another one.

less yacht but always disco!

not really sure that edit adds anything to the original (get the 12" extended mix for some extra smooth pleasure).

just draws it out a little really.
hit the spot on a sunny frday morning, much to my surprise.
also, didn't think/hoped i'd see the "yacht rock" term being used again.

Yach Rock re-revival is the new thing for 2009

For this buzz about yacht rock we need to say thanks to Johnno Burgess and his podcast on RA.

Errrr...

i just noticed for the first time yesterday that the Yacht Rock dude who played Michael McDonald (i think?) posted on this thread. i saw the same dude a few years ago in my local supermarket

how come their Dr. Dre looks and sounds like Ja Rule?

last one?

http://www.channel101.com/shows/view.php?media_id=3003

MORE DISCUSSION OF YACHT ROCK -- AND/OR YACHT ROCK EDITS OF OLD SONGS -- PLEASE.

where do i (legally) find these edits? i'd happily buy them.

That was fun.

RIP Hollywood Steve ;_;

but Spencer otm

so who killed Koko?

Ha, I don't know if my review earns an otm!

New yacht rock = made my week/month

An ex-girlfriend of mine used to refer to taking a shit as "doing a Kenny Loggins." You know, sometimes you look back on life and rue the ones that got away...

Just discovered this series, which is brilliant (and the music is also good as long as it's in the 70s. AOR is one musical genre that got considerably worse in the 80s than in the 70s). Sadly no more episodes, unless the ghost of Hollywood Steve turns up with some story about the comebacks of Steely Dan and The Eagles in the 00s (the rest of the series' main acts haven't had hits for over 20 years).

This should come back

PBS is keeping the flame right now with FOREIGNER,PETER FRAMPTON,CHICAGO
check it out

now for the first time ever, the best of soft rock bestofsoftrock.come 150 original soft rock hits

"Tell him you weren't foolin' "

You belong to me has a special place to me in the YR canon

This is great:

http://www.allmusic.com/blog/post/allmusic-s-yacht-rock

spotify playlist too, yesss

only care about andy k's tbr

pretty sure i saw an advert on tv recently about a yacht rock compilation.

could have been this ..

http://direct.asda.com/Yacht-Rock---CD/003742082,default,pd.html

would poll

Or perhaps it was this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHg-m-2ahCc

my wife made me watch that a few weeks ago

"Yacht Soul"?

sounds great

http://i.imgur.com/d5YC2Cw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/WhGNo3D.jpg

Hey Loggins, this is Michael McDonald. Do you want to come over? James Ingram and I are wasted and writing smooth music.

i thought the heart of the difference between soft rock and yacht rock was that the former was a melancholic and wistful or even maudlin clinging on to the hippie dream that said a peaceful world could exist here and now or sometime soon (setting off to look for america, me and you and a dog named boo loving and living off the land, making love in a chevy van, the open road and possibilities) and the latter was a hedonistic escape in response to the unease and ennui following the death of that dream making the here and now something uninhabitable (running off to a tropical island or out to the open sea or into the dark of night, stealing away to somewhere else).

Good post. I think sorting out the various strands of post-hippie dreams in 70s smooth music of all shades would be really interesting. Not sure how much the first is maudlin, vs. just continuing, perhaps with a looming sense of (tragic) impossibility, or a revision of priorities: yes to peace for you and me and us, but peace for everybody may not yet be. And then with yacht-rock the sense is really more escape for me and mine. Escape on the sea rather than in a new society, or escape into the lushness of the sound itself. But this would have to be really complicated by, what did people listen to this music for (late night drives? making out? unwinding after a long day at the factory?) that may not relate directly to the artists, or their images as broadcast, or their images as parodied in Yacht Rock.

Whatever garbled story I'm telling there, I think "Please Come To Boston" is some kind of equally incoherent hinge: she's not down for living in his scrubby bohemian apartment and selling paintings on the street, or overlooking silent valleys in Colorado... but each other, they need each other anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGVibKwxl78

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/sail-away-the-oral-history-of-yacht-rock-20150626

The Yacht Rock guys have a podcast: "Beyond Yacht Rock"

http://www.feralaudio.com/show/beyond-yacht-rock/

oh cool

I am working my way through these and enjoying them.

I made my own gigantic yacht mix on Spotify, it's my personal take on the genre, I put some jazz and r&b on it for a real 70's yacht party feel.

My grandma worked at a yacht club on Lake Michigan, and one thing no one points out as an influence is cocaine. On the Great Lakes, it was and is marijuana, though. Kept that in mind while making my mixes.

I'm loving this comp right now. One or two duds, but the ratio of great to meh is very high for a comp of this sort. The liner notes talk a lot about the Doobie Brothers, who I've always been indifferent to, but now I'm thinking I need to reevaluate the Doobies (whose only songs I know are the classic rock radio hits). The liners also talk a lot about people like James Taylor, but I'm hearing just as much Steely Dan, Bob Welch, John Lennon and Hall & Oates in here, and a lot less sensitive white guy with a Martin that I feared / was led to believe. Shit's funky!

this is good stuff

That looks hella fun.

Been jamming Universal Cave's Soft Rock For Hard Times Vol. 1 mix lately, solid jam after solid jam

the universal cave series led me to these two compilations called "americana: rock your soul", which is a weird name but man this is some primo soft rock shit. soft rock lovers should make a beeline for it.

Yes, Yes, Yes...No, No, No

Numero Group have also created a Yacht Rock playlist on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/user/numerogroup/playlist/1SOw4LySLMLAFTcXx4qTLW

man i wish there was a way to see a spotify playlist without creating an account. i don't want to listen to it, just see what's on it!

The BYR guys are policing the borders of yacht rock pretty hardcore these days - no smooth jazz/jazz fusion, nothing proggy or sophisto-pop sounding, nothing too disco or AM gold. They focus a lot on a stable of session musicians - Jay Gradon, David Foster, Paulinho da Costa, Michael Boddicker, Victor Feldman - which paints an interesting picture but also disencourages finding interesting things in the same vein/spirit coming from elswhere.

that's a shame. the second UK record has some pretty swell yachty vibes at times (like on "rendezvous 6:02"). genre purism does nobody any favours.

'policing the borders of yacht rock' XD

Yeah, I mean it's half-joking (as I guess was their coinage of the term in the first place), but kinda limiting.

That being said, they do spread out sometimes:
Yacht Soul - http://www.yachtrock.com/podcast/2016/10/20/yacht-soul
Southern yacht - http://www.feralaudio.com/60-southern-yacht/

If you want a picture of what they've deemed Yacht, you can look at their Yachtski Scale, where anything scoring 50 or above is deemed as "Yacht":
http://www.yachtrock.com/yacht-or-nyacht-jay-gradient/

Nah it's cool, I see what they're getting at. Honing in on specific sessioneers makes it way more interesting and meaningful. You can still listen to sophistipop etc, they're not taking that music away from you. Make your own damn reality

https://i.imgur.com/XCz4ufL.jpg

once you get that taste...it's like you're a pilot...you're in trouble...you gotta fly..you gotta keep flying...

and you can tell your little friends in TOTO

I'm glad I've never used this term in any context.

^cake hunt

Just found the 2 part episode from the show Documentary Now! called "Gentle and Soft: The Story of the Blue Jean Committee" and loved it.

Could not find any place to discus this show/episode and really kinda think it is a sequel/tip of the hat to Yacht Rock and things like the Eagles documentary.

I thought it was really good. It all looked great and the Blue Jean Committee music is quite well done.

soft is not smooth, and the blue jean committee is more like bread or seals and crofts than Toto or Loggins

You have Loggins, Hall and McDonald with parts in the BJC, which I thought was a fun coincidence. Daryl Hall gets one of the best lines in the movie.

I've seen a listing for a cover band locally that does yacht rock called Yachtly Crew.

little feat is yacht rock i am not accepting questions at this time

yachts (on the bayou) rock

I wonder which song in particular Mark is thinking of

little feet is not yacht rock get a grip

"dixie chicken" could segue nicely into "the pina colada song"

pina colada song is not yacht rock

The NY-based yacht rock band A.M. Gold just played my little Jersey town square last night.

The rather front-loaded set list:

Takin' It to the Streets
Ride Like the Wind
Reelin' in the Years
Brandy
Baby Come Back
What a Fool Believes
Steal Away
I Can't Go For That (No Can Do)
Peg
Escape (The Pina Colada Song)
Baker Street
Maneater
Who Can It Be Now
Rosanna
Careless Whisper
Footloose
Little Red Corvette
Private Eyes
Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go
All Night Long
The Power of Love
You Make My Dreams

OK, which song was more out of place, "Little Red Corvette" or "Wake Me Up"?

"What a Fool Believes" into "Steal Away" make it obvious just how much "Steal" is a pale rewrite of "Fool."

Local amateur musicians playing live through shitty PA systems aping professional musicians in million dollar studios is one of the hardest things for me to listen to. Ymmv

captain beefheart: yacht rock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfX5Ymxf4Rg

I rewatched all of Yacht Rock a couple months back. Justin Roiland's voice really jumps out now, after Rick and Morty. This is one of my favorite bits I completely forgot about: https://youtu.be/jGwJPqgA3N4

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p079rws8?fbclid=IwAR0yN5ALfYSp0hLnSKQeZHQInSwvfMLbEQGWjiun-RnD8mdMK4hYXMZHLr4

No info on when it's gonna air tho

That looks sexy

Starts this Friday on BBC4

once you get that taste...it's like you're a pilot...you're in trouble...you gotta fly..you gotta keep flying...

There are plenty of gigantic Yacht Rock playlists out there, but mine is - I believe - the first one curated to present a (roughly) chronological history of the genre. Please enjoy YACHT ROCK: A PURIST'S HISTORY and let it soothe your troubled soulhttps://t.co/tZOWyTamHB

— Hollywood Steve (@hollywoodsteveh) April 3, 2020

these guys have a discord now and JD will be spinning an hour of yacht at 10 PM EST

pablo cruise hits mini poll: "love will find a way," "whatcha gonna do" or "find your place in the sun." I'm going with whatcha gonna do.

that Hollywood Steve playlist is great, I listen to it a lot

Many things, Richard. 1) I coined the term yacht rock. https://t.co/lDhhay3TQ8

— JD Ryznar (@JDRyznar) August 3, 2020

These guys have been touring the country (but mainly gigged heavily in Atlanta) since 2006.

https://www.yachtrockrevue.com

That JD Ryzar thread just posted specifically calls Yacht Rock Revue out as a "shitty cover band" that "dragged the term through the mud".

lol JD seems angry because...people aren't defining Yacht Rock the way he imagined. Yacht Rock Revue has been incredibly successful, which is probably another reason JD is mad. So really, he's mad that most people don't agree with him.

i'm wondering if the guy who coined the term "zolo" gets this mad about people he doesn't like being characterized as "zolo"

i can totally see it, some impassioned rant about how for god's sake "dog police" are not zolo and it is a total perversion of what the true spirit of zolo is supposed to stand for

or maybe he's just down for whatever, who knows

lol JD seems angry because...people aren't defining Yacht Rock the way he imagined. Yacht Rock Revue has been incredibly successful, which is probably another reason JD is mad. So really, he's mad that most people don't agree with him.

― Ira Einhorn (dandydonweiner), Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he created the term! then people took the term and expanded it to be meaningless (what yacht rock revue or the Sirius station term yacht rock is just any 70s or early 80s soft rock of any and all varieties, which is meaningless).

he also has had personal tragedy in his life (his wife died of cancer) and probably spends more time being defensive on twitter about a term he created than he might if things were going better for him in his life

On a happier note, Chris Molanphy's latest episode of Hit Parade is about yacht rock (and very much comes down on JD's side) -- subscription only but it's worth it, 35 bucks for the entire year of Slate's general collection of things.

https://slate.com/podcasts/hit-parade/2020/07/yacht-rock-was-smooth-music-played-by-70s-80s-studio-pros

And inspired by that, I wrote this:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/covid-coping-40130176

He has also a subtle sense of humor about it which can be missed at first glance if you’re not really tuned into his groove

he also has had personal tragedy in his life (his wife died of cancer)

― Temporary Erogenous Zone (jim in vancouver)

has he adopted a meat-only diet

I didn't see that JD thread as angry - he was just correcting Richard Marx on his assumption that it was a derogatory term and also pointing out that it's not just a catch all for soft rock in general

i can totally see it, some impassioned rant about how for god's sake "dog police" are not zolo and it is a total perversion of what the true spirit of zolo is supposed to stand for

I didn't know I wanted this to happen.

he also has had personal tragedy in his life (his wife died of cancer) and probably spends more time being defensive on twitter about a term he created than he might if things were going better for him in his life

He created the term, I get it. Calling some band he's probably never listed to "a shitty cover band" because they don't play his ordained playlist is just petty.

I don't think Twitter or the Internet in general is very forgiving for being a dick based on personal tragedies.

he's not really the one being a dick

They’re not respectful of the music. They were fans of the webshow and trademarked the term out from under us. Nick, the leader, said in an interview that he doesn’t even like yacht rock. Half of their set isn’t even yacht rock music.

— JD Ryznar (@JDRyznar) August 3, 2020

He has listened to them and even had them on the Beyond Yacht Rock podcast. I think he even went to one of their concerts at one point.

Come hang out on the discord

https://discord.gg/sZXXWR

JD enjoys being the Supreme Leader of What Yacht Rock Music Really Is and he will not have anyone telling him what it is.

"trademarked the term out from under us" is an absolute classic. Dude needs a better lawyer.

I didn't see that JD thread as angry - he was just correcting Richard Marx on his assumption that it was a derogatory term and also pointing out that it's not just a catch all for soft rock in general

― chonky floof (groovypanda), Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:53 PM (seven hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

this, and also calstars otm

seeing this as some form of gatekeeping is just really missing the point

I’m totally in favors of being a serious nerd about this, its hella lame when ppl are all “billy joel! billy ocean! I love Yacht rock! Lolololol”

Yes

I suppose you could theoretically say there's a kind of conflation happening there that's equivalent to pretty much tagging everyone over a certain age as boomers.

had no idea Yacht Rock lifers would have such a Manowar-ish attitude towards the posers in their scene

"do u even know Michael McDonald's eldest's child's name is??? do u?"

I’m totally in favors of being a serious nerd about this, its hella lame when ppl are all “billy joel! billy ocean! I love Yacht rock! Lolololol”

― brimstead, Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:28 PM bookmarkflaglink

I had a friend bragging that she finally liked hair metal and then announced the band she liked was REO Speedwagon

o_o

She couldn't fight that feeling any more!

idk man, definitions / conceptions of musical genres can (and should) change over time, you just gotta accept it

just gotta roll with the changes

nicely done

kev’s mullet is the bridge between speedwagon & metal

"Ridin' The Storm Out" is borderline metal. Kevin Cronin's scat singing on "157 Riverside Avenue" from the same live album most assuredly is not.

Maybe we need a hardcore yacht rock term like hardcore punk to denote a purist, extremist version of the genre, with less purist versions emanating out like peaceful, gentle waves on a tasty Saturday afternoon.

Heard it from a friend who
Finally liked hair metal

yacht rock shouldn't have gatekeepers, it should have harbour masters instead

Calling some band he's probably never listed

lol they did a concert together! You're super wrong on this thread.

I had a friend bragging that she finally liked hair metal and then announced the band she liked was REO Speedwagon

o_o

― popeye's arse (Neanderthal)

well, looking at REO Speedwagon as a producer's band, wondering what the board's take on Fortune's S/T from '85, produced by Kevin Beamish, is. I feel like that album is more hard-edged than the REO Speedwagon stuff I've heard. Honestly one of the chief things that differentiates "hair metal" from other forms of metal to me is its concern for the sort of production values espoused by "yacht rock" or "AOR", values which have, I would argue, essential continuity with later forms of chart music, and which certainly are diametrically opposed to the production values espoused by TRVE CVLT metal. It's probably a cliche by now to point out that Max Martin got his start in hair metal...

some guy on rym has actually made a yacht metal list:

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/PhantomOTO/yacht_metal/

incidentally i note that fortune did put out a reunion album last year - beamish appears to now be retired and isn't involved, but i'm surprised at how much i am enjoying it, even if the production lacks the full crispness and sheen Beamish brought to it. still a marked improvement over the boom box demos on their "limited edition prerelease ep" from '17. the idea of shittily recorded (i'm not talking "lo-fi", these are really just abominably shitty recordings) AOR songs is conceptually fascinating but actually listening to them is about as recommended as drinking Kykeon is.

I love the ethos of present-day AOR albums. They're completely unironic and sincere (or at least _pass_ for unironic and sincere) in a way that seems more or less impossible for "yacht rock" these days. This is exemplified by the cover, which is both a call-back to the first album cover - which isn't universally known, but certainly will be familiar to anybody listening to their second album - and an encapsulation of AOR's ethos. Whereas the original album's cover featured a gloved, elegant female hand (possibly _not_ an overt reference to "smell the glove", but I find it impossible to not think of that Spinal Tap record) opening a safe, the second album's cover features the same female hand, this time wearing an even more ridiculously over-the-top bracelet, adjusting the dials on a pre-amp. What a perfect encapsulation of the AOR ethos!

I find it amusing we're talking about REO Speedwagon in this thread when a friend showed me this compilation the other day:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Now-Thats-What-I-Call-Yacht-Rock-2/release/15457853

some guy on rym has actually made a yacht metal list:

https://rateyourmusic.com/list/PhantomOTO/yacht_metal/

― Boris the Spreader (NickB)

but is there a yacht prog list? speaking as a lady who far prefers "danger money" to uk's self-titled, i'd love to hear more music with that vibe

I was going to say "is there Yacht hip hop" but I remembered Magna Carta Holy Grail came out years ago

@ Kate - fair point on the production side of things. The original Yacht Rock series (in one of its later and somewhat stretched-thin episodes), went to some lengths to make sure the public understood that Ted Templeman produced basically the entire discographies of both the Doobie Brothers and Roth-era Van Halen.

I was going to say "is there Yacht hip hop" but I remembered Magna Carta Holy Grail came out years ago

george duke sample on that too

wait, what am i saying? it's bob james

magna carta doesn't feel yacht to me, other than he's rich

Larry June had v yacht rap vibes

https://youtu.be/Wy1D7FhoJes

@ Kate - fair point on the production side of things. The original Yacht Rock series (in one of its later and somewhat stretched-thin episodes), went to some lengths to make sure the public understood that Ted Templeman produced basically the entire discographies of both the Doobie Brothers and Roth-era Van Halen.

― Doctor Casino

my favorite ted templeman story is that captain beefheart specifically hired him in the hopes that he could do something like "observatory crest" and what came out instead was "big eyed beans from venus". oh my oh my.

"observatory crest" is quality yacht rock mind

the first “yacht rock” thing I saw made fun of hall & Oates “portable radio”, it was extremely not funny

my partner saw REO perform in between Tesla and Def Leppard at some winery a few years ago. sounded like a pretty sad scene (def leppard excepted)

the first “yacht rock” thing I saw made fun of hall & Oates “portable radio”, it was extremely not funny

I'm playing drums for a friend's mom's surprise 60th birthday party this summer, and this is the set list:

Freedom at Midnight - David Benoit
6-String Poet - David Benoit
The Way It Is - Bruce Hornsby
Peg - Steely Dan
Do I Do - Stevie Wonder
What a fool believes - Doobie Bros
Virtual Insanity - Jamiroquai
Got To Get You Into My Life - Earth Wind and Fire
Back Pocket - Vulfpeck
Higher Love - Steve Winwood
Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough - MJ
King of Wishful Thinking - Go West

the Slate “Hit Parade” podcast episode about Yacht Rock is out from behind the paywall - Ned posted about it way upthread
It’s pretty great. Gives a good breakdown of Ryznar & gang’s criteria as well as some chart history of some of the big names — a good refresher if you listened to the show

it made me go back & listen to old eps

real talk though- i avoided the podcast for a long time because it pissed me off that coworkers would say “oh my favorite genre is yacht rock” and talk about seals & croft and i’d get all angry-kermit-the-frog like “aaagh seals & croft isnt even yacht rock! also its not a real genre its made up by writers! you just dont want to say you like adult contemporary!”

but im ok now lol

i now appreciate how music-nerdy it is, and that it’s designed to alienate casual music fans in a way that morbidly delights me

Hate to break it you veg but Seals and Crofts are on the boat

Bread has to be considered 'proto-yacht rock' as much as the Stooges are 'proto-punk' as "Baby I'm a Want You" definitely has the smoothe.

Just the title alone has given me chuckles since I was a teenager.

xpost doh

i’m very into the steve lukather/toto of it all, tbh

does 'yacht rock' alienate casual music listeners? the adult contemporary station in my city does a yacht rock specialty program every saturday night (w/ that specific branding) and given that it's not a very adventurous station otherwise i have to assume it's far from the only one

Yacht rock is meant to alienate people that do not own a yacht.

i didnt mean the broad genre as it exists out in the world -i meant the ryznar group & the podcast & the detailed criteria of why things are or are not yacht rock

ah yeah fair enough, i find all that pretty alienating myself

:D

as long as it alienates parrotheads, thats the most important thing

Do I Do - Stevie Wonder
Virtual Insanity - Jamiroquai
Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough - MJ

If even these are yacht rock, I've been yacht rocking since before yachts rocked.

the problem with the expansive "Yacht rock" playlists and Sirius channels is that they want to include mostly big hits, and many of the most yachty songs were minor hits, non-hits, or deep cuts.

Hate to break it you veg but Seals and Crofts are on the boat

I mean I guess they technically made it onto the boat with a couple later songs, but "Summer Breeze" is decidedly marina rock, nyacht yacht!

I really dug the podcast eps where they would define other new genres, like divorcecore and what have you. Was kind of bummed when that concept eventually fell by the wayside.

Yeah, The divorcecore one is especially great, I’ve revisited that one several times.

the best yacht rock is basically just white dudes doing r&b y/n

already regret that post lol

I just remember when allMusic had some “soft rock” feature and Andy kellman’s list was just cool smooth 70s soul records

xpost calstars thats a great one
pvmic but my fave is the bald metal episode, i freakin love almost every song in that top 10

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6kVRZHsbV6LZEBiqzSzFvq?si=Y0GJdSBsRJW-uxRtzTtQCQ&dl_branch=1

The only reason to pay for Spotify

Yeah the Random Genres I Made Up episodes were incredible podcasts and the most ILM-y podcast I've come across to date. Shame they had to stop under the circumstances they did. Apparently they have some new stuff paywalled but DJ sets isn't really what I want from them.

Michael McDonald performing on 'Soul Train' in 1982 pic.twitter.com/tPm6qOvwIq

— Barney Hurley (@barneyhurley1) September 10, 2021

Where do you go to buy jackets like that in 1982?

literally everywhere iirc

^^Reagan's Finest Executive Order

i've read where ppl say eagles are not yacht. the long run singles sorta fell like yacht in that they all have that miserablist sense of what was lost being gone forever, so they're kinda kinfolk in spirit but lack the essential denialism of escape through hedonistic pursuits. yacht seems peppy and up and slick but what's the impetus? pushing away realty, what a fool believe. yacht is the mellow-presenting counterpart of disco, which goes hard and don't mince words: last dance, last chance, because the end of history. eagles are just full of gripes, and i can't tell you why.

anyway.

if my thesis is that soft rock is warm, open, even in its most melancholic aspects, yacht is closed off, escapist, avoiding the topic re: love and america and the future, and yada yada, hotel california and maybe rumours are critical to the genre because they function as the line of demarcation between soft and yacht in pop, even if they're not included in the yacht canon proper. they're the open declaration of bad vibes being the status quo that yacht is running away from. eagles say you can never leave, that's not yacht but yacht tries anyhoo. the chain is broken but we can still share the night together, for whatever that's worth.

nb i'm off a tangent that extends beyond the original parameters of the toto/ loggins/ cross/ michael mcd axis of what yacht is to include about all of late 70s early 80s soft rock that has that oh yeah, all rught self-serving tip that someone else posited that seems so sum up that whole ... thing (guffman reference).

https://www.yachtornyacht.com/

A useful reference

Yacht Rock doc coming to HBO November 29.

Called “Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary.”

Clever

prehistoric take-- including toto africa as a yacht rock song may be stylistically correct but slanders and derogates yacht rock. unless one assumes that any yacht rock is necessarily horribly bad and stupid, in which case it is the apotheosis of yacht rock.

brought up because a week ago i jokingly told a stream to "play yacht rock" and that is what it served.

I do not share your hatred but can say that stylistically there are far yachtier Toto tracks.

I don't think "Africa" is Yacht really, though Toto is deeply involved in the genre.

it was ok-ish, talking head segs were marginally less annoying than most of these rock docs (except Armisen).
would be interested to know how much the orig yacht rock web series guys have made off of their concept, they really did spark a revival (ill-defined) of sorts that should have lined their pockets but the doc didn't go into that.

they're on that patreon grind, which isn't likely to make you a millionaire but it's better than nothing

Genuinely not interested if it doesn’t even mention those guys; their framing of this stuff is the reason the doc exists.

It mentions them. They’re in it! Well, two of them are.

Really you could just watch the web series instead of this fancy doc

Does Boz Scaggs participate at all? Is he even mentioned? I know he takes issue with the genre designation.

I want to hear an interview with a yacht.

I want to hear an interview with lil yachty.

I actually thought this did a pretty nice job of delivering a coherent little essay on the sound/genre/ecosystem of session players and their influences, and how this whole thing exceeds the jokey sailor-hat gimmickry that the original Channel 101 series spawned. Hollywood Steve, Ryznar and maybe a couple other folks from the videos share screentime with the Porcaros, McDonald, Loggins, Cross, Thundercat, etc. etc. Steve Lukather in particular comes off as a pretty well-adjusted dude. It's a pleasant watch IMHO!

Only real complaint is that they didn't get the rights to play audio samples of more of the R&B and soul artists that get shouted out, which might have filled in the map a little more completely.

best radio friendly yacht rock track of 2024, from Cardiff band CVC - The Lowrider (Just About Meant To Be) - received UK airplay on BBC Radio 2 and 6 Music.

CVC - The Lowrider (Just About Meant To Be) (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8XSoPw5pcM

the video is naff, but the track sounds sublime.

Emm Gryner released a fantastic Yacht Rock, assisted by a number of genre session players, album last year called Business & Pleasure. Some highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjOnhmj895A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xWl_MudQV4

She even threw in a bonus Bobby Caldwell cover as a b-side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOv20P9yzOg

Sorry but those songs fall outside the definition, and should properly be called “modern yacht”

or what Walt Whitman called a barbaric yacht

I’m more into “yacht NRG” these days

Alternative Yacht

“Yacht adjacent”

Boattown

lol

just noticed, Spotify has a Yacht Rock Revival playlist
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DX4TJ9HJlcZl3?si=12ce14bde9e24a53
many 2024 and 2023 tracks

including Emm Gryner

Fuck Spotify

they're on that patreon grind, which isn't likely to make you a millionaire but it's better than nothing

― Daniel_Rf, Saturday, 30 November 2024 10:25 (yesterday) link

they all have day jobs, i'm sure they make a little extra money from podcasting but none of them got rich off of coining "yacht rock"

i really enjoyed the documentary! i thought it was really true to the music-nerd spirit of what Ryznar etc were getting at, ie that those artists are way more accomplished than they get credit for

i would have loved a multipart series w deepdives on key songs w the artists etc but hey this was really great in and of itself

I enjoyed it as well. The era overlapped with high school for me - we were not fans at the time. Well except for Aja, we were into that album. I’m glad they covered the role of MTV in the demise of the yacht sound - some of the key players were not ready made for a visual medium lol. And agree with VG, with all the music podcasts showing what can done in long form, it would have been nice to have a longer series to explore the music and how it fit with late 70s/early 80s culture. There was so much going on with disco, post-punk, reggae, new wave, early rap.

Crypto, yes on Boz

i'm guessing this is their pre-Patreon days, but i used to listen to their Yacht or Not podcast pretty regularly and they always came across as extremely genuine torchbearers of their own unintentional genre creation.

yeah i used to get mad at the Yacht Rock tag because i was like RAGH THAT IS NOT A REAL GENRE ITS A JOKE but when i finally listened to the podcast, it was clear they were total music nerds who were also impressively respectful of the artists.. i’m a huge fan of them now

their entire yacht or nyacht website is just full of smooth bangers regardless of how they rated them.

the doc is so good

*dock

I really liked Thundercat’s comments & insights

The thing about yacht rock being a made up genre is so was film noir and that did all right for itself.

i'm guessing this is their pre-Patreon days, but i used to listen to their Yacht or Not podcast pretty regularly and they always came across as extremely genuine torchbearers of their own unintentional genre creation.

― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Sunday, December 1, 2024 8:54 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

They had a podcast called "Beyond Yacht Rock" that lasted a few years and by the end was mostly them rating songs on the Yachtski scale. Then they disappeared for awhile but came back about a year ago with two podcasts: "Yacht or Nacht" and "The Billion Dollar Record Club" which is mostly about bargain bin albums they own.

"Film noir" wasn't coined by a series of newsreels goofing on the genre though.

It was coined by the French, they're usually pretty goofy.

Is there French Yacht Rock?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cD-zi7gi9bQ

French language anyway

someone made a French yacht rock Spotify playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2XrwWLphYDMRZpp0NV6u9w?si=Poa1KPEJTCqVwDFmnhIcFA&pi=QKBfH75WQUern

I’m reading Cher’s new memoir and there’s a bit of convergence with this Yacht doc. It’s the summer of 1973 and Sonny & Cher’s touring band is basically Toto. In a fit of jealous possessiveness over Cher’s hanging out with the band, Sonny threatens to break David Paitch’s fingers and destroy Jeff Porcaro’s Porsche.

listening to “Rosanna” & being aware thst the person who wrote the song was NOT the person that was dating her is a v different experience lol

(ie in light of the doc)

The Roseanna episode of the web series is absolute gold

"The only problem is, Michael McDonald hates our band"

Most surprising piece of trivia from the doc: "Ride Like the Wind" was inspired by the crowd's enthusiatsic reaction when Christopher Cross did live renditions of "Nineteen Hundred and Eighty-Five" by Paul McCartney & Wings, specifically a new, high "ba-ba-BA-ba" bit they'd added in.

... & the lyrics were written on a drive through Texas on LSD.

audiences also reacted favorably to the fact that Christopher Cross actually killed all those dudes

Fagen’s “part” in the doc really rubbed me the wrong way

Like the day after I saw it, I was eating Nathan’s cheese fries during lunchtime on the street near Radio City, listening to Steely Dan on shuffle, and I just kept thinking, “this guy is really an asshole these days”

Steely Dan Member In Being An Asshole SHOCKAH!

Well yeah, I guess I knew that. I guess it was the aggression that shocked me

The documentary was really enjoyable, and made me want to listen to a lot more of this stuff. I've been operating for some years now on a theory that "fusion" isn't just chopsy jazz-rock from the early 70s, it's an overall ethos governing music from roughly 1969-1975 that allowed for all sorts of novel combinations of sounds and styles. So the Fania All Stars were a fusion group. Santana was absolutely fusion. Fela was fusion. Earth, Wind & Fire were fusion. Etc., etc. And now I'm kind of starting to think about the yacht rock universe of players as the next step after fusion. Informed by jazz, by rock, by singer-songwriterism, by funk and R&B, but creating something entirely new.

One thing I wish was dealt with more was how much of the music was inspired by the producers and/or the industry as a whole. Because for example, there's just one tiny little clip of Ted Templeman, who produced every Doobie Brothers album, talking about how they could basically play anything. But if you read Templeman's autobiography, you really get a much stronger sense that the Doobie Brothers were at least half his weird little project, like, any weird idea he had, he'd throw at them, and they'd be able to execute it, so that's why their albums sound so wildly different from track to track, from boogie-rock to white soul to weirdo Brazilian easy-listening jazz tunes... it was Templeman using them as his hired players! And, I mean, the Toto guys are brilliant musicians, but they're not Donald Fagen and Walter Becker-level creative spirits. They can play anything you want, but they don't have very many lightning-strike brilliant ideas of their own.

Like the day after I saw it, I was eating Nathan’s cheese fries during lunchtime on the street near Radio City, listening to Steely Dan on shuffle, and I just kept thinking, “this guy is really an asshole these days”

The director recounted this in an interview. He waited for months for Fagen to watch it because he had never signed off on so many Steely Dan songs in one project. Eventually a manager called and said that Fagen was gonna call and you need to record the conversation and find a way to put it in the doc and then he'll sign off on it. So Fagen called, gave him the quote (after the director accidentally hung up and Fagen called back), and a few days later they got the go ahead to use the music. If he was actually an asshole about it he would have just denied them the rights.

yeah totally

plus it just fits with my idea of him & he probably understands his brand more than anyone by now

Also very much fits the Dan's profile as New Yorkers who ended up in LA, versus SoCal lifers - something not really played up by the doc but imo not without meaning in distinguishing then from their peers and followers in the smooth session world.

Just watched that doc (thanks for the tip, Yacht Rock thread!)
I think what made it so interesting is that the talking heads (huey, ryznar, jason king, amanda petrusich) weren't just spitting "without michael mcdonald there would be no ___" cliches, but were really able to offer some real analysis and insight.
It didn't hurt that the director could basically get interviews with any of the major players that he wanted to, apart from fagan. I don't think I had ever even seen a photo of Christopher Cross before today.

yeah you can appreciate that a lot of thought went into it

Christopher Cross wearing an Earl Campbell jersey is basically just everything that’s good about America. pic.twitter.com/z2xjfpp8Ww

— Super 70s Sports (@Super70sSports) September 29, 2023

Agreed, this is a dope look
Looks kind of like a pajama shirt on bro
And that double neck seals it

cross representing texas 4ever

clear eyes, full hearts, sailing

Cross’s voice is like a baritone munchkin

no thats yr mom

Wow, this was sooo good.

I really liked hearing a lot of these artists talk about the moments they wrote the songs that defined their careers forever, like David Pack from Ambrosia talking about touring with the Doobies and how that led to a convo with Michael McDonald telling him how he read classical music.

It was great to see Prince Paul talk so enthusiastically about the genre and to learn he sampled "Peg" in De La Soul.

So many little stories like that. They got amazing archive footage. It's just very well done, a total feel-good movie.

little feat is yacht rock i am not accepting questions at this time

― mark s, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 7:43 AM (six years ago) bookmarkflaglink

i would accept at least Time Loves A Hero as yacht rock (there's even Michael McDonald BVs!). commercial success kinda seems like a prerequisite, though, there aren't really any cult yacht rock bands, are there?

Ned Doheny may count? plus all the other stuff on: https://numerogroup.com/products/seafaring-strangers-private-yacht

I thought I knew my Yacht Rock but I was totally unfamiliar with Ambrosia before watching this

Also on Numero, I'd recommend Willie Wright for some prime Yacht Soul: https://williewrightnumero.bandcamp.com/album/willie-wright-telling-the-truth

Thought the doc was pretty great! I was expecting more cringe with the credit sequence and the footage of the current day yacht rock cruises, but this was surprisingly thoughtful. I could quibble about things, but I thought it was time well spent. Already liked Michael McDonald, but I was surprised by how much I liked Christopher Cross. Seemed like a chill dude at this point in time. Fagen's cameo was so in character, I loved it.

The font and yellow color they used for some of the titles was perfect. Shows the level of care and appreciation for the story

I really want to see this but don't have access yet. Was talking with a friend tonight who has, and apparently my definition of the genre has been wrong the whole time--I always thought of it more in terms of a timeline, as K-Tel type music but shifted to the late '70s rather than the early-middle part of the decade. So in my own mind, this belonged, but I guess not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RamSFoo0jw

I'd never seen that clip until today.

ohh i love Magnet & Steel

but yeah not Yacht by their metric really. But for me personally, in that “AM Gold” way, very much in that kind of vibe

Walter Egan is Cali-pre-goth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud5Bb32U7gI

Lots of great vintage pictures in the show. I thought it was really fun.

Not sure I had ever seen a picture or film of Ted Templeton before.

I haven't seen the doc yet, but my buddy was disappointed that they didn't find a way to include Lionel Richie or Billy Ocean.

Sirius XM's seasonal Yacht Rock station plays "Magnet and Steel" fairly regularly, so it is considered Yacht by some loose metrics.

Crazy how Buckingham and Nicks found time to tour, record, and produce/sing for/with others (Egan, John Stewart, Kenny Loggins, Bob Welch).

Sirius XMs Yacht Rock station is a monstrosity

Lionel Richie and Billy Ocean are yacht-adjacent. The doc certainly discusses how Black artists influenced/inspired the music but were not in the same spotlight.

Also (challops coming) Air Supply!

Lots of artists making similar soft-rock music are not classified as (ahem) Yacht-thentic Yacht Rock because they didn't include that specific group of session players anf producers with their jazz chops and their work ethic.

Air Supply would have been Yacht As Fuck if they'd moved to LA (indeed, they thought about it)!

Billy Ocean worked in London and NY; Lionel Richie had Motown and it's infrastructure. Neither one needed LA session players, strictly speaking.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

One might call it a Yacht-ternative universe.

My friend who's seen the film told me this story last night:

https://axs.tv/news-story/steely-dans-donald-fagen-curses-out-yacht-rock-documentary-director/

When Price called Fagen, hoping to discuss his role in yacht rock, the conversation quickly turned awkward. Upon hearing Price mention "yacht rock," Fagen responded with a curt, "Why don't you go fuck yourself?" before hanging up. Despite this brusque dismissal, Fagen's manager later called back to grant permission for the documentary to use six Steely Dan songs, suggesting a mix of aversion and acknowledgment toward the genre.

Donald Fagan: "I don't even own a yacht!"

It's funny that Loggins was initially offended by the label, but seems to have come around. One of the Yacht Rock guys told a story about his wife meeting Loggins and when she told him she was married to a guy from the web series he got totally icy.

But it would be interesting to hear what they would have sounded like with the Yacht production style.

I mean, "All Night Long" kinda is? Def. session cat heavy. Keys are by Greg Phillinganes, drums by JR Robinson, Abraham Laboriel on bass, Richard Marx on backing vox ... Def. the same vibe as, say, Michael McDonald's "Sweet Freedom." "Caribbean Queen" sorta sound like Michael McDonald, too, come to think of it. Fun new-to-me facts from the wiki:

The song was initially released in the UK as "European Queen" in May 1984, but it did not achieve success. As suggested by people at the record company, it was re-recorded for different parts of the world—resulting in the versions "Caribbean Queen" and "African Queen."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcA3eDbYVJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evfHpU9bn4w

I just encountered the term "Yacht Soul," which seems pretty sus.

not only is the jersey on point, but Cross completely rips on guitar in this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpBi1-ts_0k

"Yacht Soul" initially makes me think of tracks like "Street Life", "Breezin'" and "What You Won't Do For Love", but maybe those are more "Yacht Jazz?"

George Benson's "Turn Your Love Around" is basically the "What a Fool Believes" of Yacht Soul

I didn't realize just how many songs completely copped that "What A Fool Believes" riff. It was such a part of the general soft rock ecosystem back then that it seemed to just be an organic part of the genre, but of course it had to come from somewhere.

I wrote an essay for maura a decade ago on the "What a Fool Believes" craze -- stuff like Pointer Hands' "He's So Shy" and Robbie Dupree's "Steal Away." Those syncopations.

Clemenza, here's a slightly different account upthread:

The director recounted this in an interview. He waited for months for Fagen to watch it because he had never signed off on so many Steely Dan songs in one project. Eventually a manager called and said that Fagen was gonna call and you need to record the conversation and find a way to put it in the doc and then he'll sign off on it. So Fagen called, gave him the quote (after the director accidentally hung up and Fagen called back), and a few days later they got the go ahead to use the music. If he was actually an asshole about it he would have just denied them the rights.

― Gukbe, Wednesday, December 4, 2024 9:14 PM (one week ago)

Either way, it was important to Fagen to be seen as granting rights while disparaging (or seemingly to disparage) the whole thing.

Weird, I searched "Fagen" and "fuck" and didn't get anything...maybe I didn't have all answers open.

Note to self: do not Google "Fagen" and "fuck"

lol otm

Alfred, is that essay out there anywhere? The Maura Magazine page only has her first 26 issues.

I like how that 'What a Fool Believes' riff even found its way into the guitar interludes of Jackson Browne's 'Somebody's Baby'.

Also, the CVC album mentioned above is quite the enjoyable listen. Like if My Morning Jacket went through their 'Circuital' era in the late '70s

Came across this one after listening to some Yacht Jazz.

This is so groovy. Love the bass player.

Ramsey Lewis - Summer Breeze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6j6Zk945ZY

The Yacht Rock podcast guys claim that Summer Breeze is Nyacht Rock (too early), but that song has such great bones that it really lends itself to interpretation.

Here's another favorite (from an album that features not 1 but 2 Seals & Crofts covers):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06u6GXuS0mU

watched this and now i wanna hear christopher cross’s “bowling” song

The alley can do miracles

Well the ball rolls down and it's a strike
And that's ten points for me

Is there a thread specifically about the "MTV really doomed us old guys who weren't photogenic" trope? Been on my mind since the doc - it's such established conventional wisdom, but I can't help but think maybe the bigger issue was that styles change, trends change, and there was a demographically significant cohort of teenagers coming up who responded more to these newer acts. I mean it's not like these dudes had spent the 70s strenuously avoiding having their pictures taken.

Also since like Dire Straits, Genesis and ZZ Top were able to thrive

Also the groups that came up after punk were more dress-up compared to the groups that had come up in the Woodstock era that were more dress-down. And the new groups were more likely to come from the art world, and the more connections they had to that world the more likely they were to make good videos.

Also since like Dire Straits, Genesis and ZZ Top were able to thrive

- Dire Straits were in the "Money For Nothing" video for about 5 seconds (see also Herbie Hancock in "Rockit"), and their other video was a collection of sports clips set to their song
- ZZ Top turned themselves into cartoon characters
- Genesis realized that Phil Collins had been a cartoon character all along

was gonna say, the money for nothing animation video really created new fans. i was in middle school and me and my friends all loved that video. plus the sting guest shot, lol

How does this disprove the point that these non-models found a way to thrive in the MTV era?

the obvious counterpoint to the yacht rock guys' lament is that the 80s are filled with old guys who had hit records. i'm not the first to point this out, but a surpsingly high number of acts whose careers started in the 60s were getting legimitate radio hits well into the mid- and late 80s

ultimately i think doctor casino is otm, the decline of yacht rock has more to do with a general change in trends than "christopher cross was too ugly"

You're saying Jon Anderson wasn't on the wall of every teenaged girl in America in 1984?

to add to that: yacht rock was aimed, I think, at people who were already around or over 30 by 1980, maybe by 1975. their target audience probably was not relying on MTV to find their new records, but maybe they were buying fewer new records period. i'd buy that a lack of MTV exposure limited the likelihood of a Cross-level crossover. but the pop charts being ruled by world-weary ballads of middle-aged uncertainty was always a time-limited phenomenon.

just once it'd be great to hear one of these guys go "in the 90s, VH1 came along and completely saved my career - all of a sudden, i could reach my same old audience! and you if you were a fresh young good looking kid with a 'cool' haircut, you'd never make it!"

Is this considered yacht rock?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmHh9IqN5uk

Nope

49.5 on the Yachtski scale

city pop def a spiritual cousin to yacht rock

I feel like the issue with transitioning to the MTV era was less about whether you were intrinsically "photogenic" than whether you were actually interested in attending to the new cultural demands around cultivating an image. I got the impression from the doc that some artists weren't able to make the leap because they simply didn't feel like it was their job to care about making music videos, or they didn't feel equipped to build a new set of skills. Meanwhile, others embraced it.

a lot of the guys were originally session musicians if used being in the background, so it would make sense that they didn’t feel comfortable as “tv stars”

also, craig jenkins linked to this thread in his excellent new nymag article about yacht rock, luther vandross, and the boundaries of genre: https://www.vulture.com/article/luther-vandross-documentary-yacht-rock.html

you know who cleaned up well for the 80s? these guys. they were dirty hippies in their hit-making youth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt4cR9szMS8

i mean all those rockers were dirty hippies at the beginning. but some people really washed the stench off.

just once it'd be great to hear one of these guys go "in the 90s, VH1 came along and completely saved my career - all of a sudden, i could reach my same old audience! and you if you were a fresh young good looking kid with a 'cool' haircut, you'd never make it!"

Michael Bolton to thread.

I'm glad Craig cited Brenda Russell -- women are too often left out of this tale, and Russell's first two albums are among my favorites from this era.

Kudos too for citing this Luther jam. Check out the first 30 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de0R9UCyuas

brenda russell had a talking head in the yacht roc doc, and i think the quote craig cites in his article is from that interview

A while back, AllMusic did this feature where they had a bunch of writers list their favorite "yacht rock" albums of all time or something. Andy Kellman just listed a bunch of smooth r&b albums and was sort of like like "why is yacht rock called rock, it's just white dudes doing r&b".

Tbf that’s what rock’n’roll is too

lol troof

lol! #HeGotchaThere

The OGs did a women of yacht episode in 2016
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6aJArQWK13r1YMwApRA3VE?si=49-rKIvOTvWQaPc33PBCiQ

Well hey! https://sites.libsyn.com/483276/choochoos

alright!