Grifters: C er D?

Once upon a time, I was infatuated w/ the 2nd-to-last Grifters album (the one w/ the Jim Woodring cover, their 1st on Sub Pop - I can remember everything but the album's name, and I'm too lazy to bother looking it up). And then I saw Those Bastard Souls live, and all the fun cheekiness of the Grifters (their best quality) was replaced by this stiff earnestness. Boo hiss. (Yeah, it was only 1/4 of the Grifters - Mr. Dave Shouse, if I recall correctly - but, still, guilt by association can still bring about a conviction.) After that, my taste for the Grifters slowly faded. I have their last album around here somewhere, but it didn't leave much of an impression on me.

While FULL BLOWN POSSESSION, their second Sub Pop CD, does little for me, I must give "mad props" to ONE SOCK MISSING, CRAPPIN' YOU NEGATIVE, AIN'T MY LOOKOUT, and the EUREKA EP. They all have moments that would have best been left on the cutting room floor, granted.

And the live show! Man, they would suck now and again, but on an on- night they were just a terrific live band. And they did a great cover of "Rainin' Babies" as well.

Their best moment, IMO, was the version of "Junkie Blood" that came out on 7".

My friend saw them play in Tuscaloosa for 2 1/2 hours. They were going to play every song they knew, but one of them got too drunk or something to go on. Surprise.

My first experience of The Grifters was seeing them open for Fugazi on freaking hot race day in Indianapolis a couple of months before Crappin You Negative came out. One of the best shows I ever saw, it was in this old run down theatre and it was so damn hot you could see clouds of steam rise from the crowd, when you were at the back.

I saw them a couple of years later in Lexington after Ain't My Lookout came out in a small club. Another good show. The drummer was so loose and could drive the band where he wanted.

I think getting all of the side projects and the fact that they were together for so long before anything really started to happen for them hastened their departure. There are some good songs on the frist Those Bastards... record that would probably have been even better as The Grifters with some live dynamics and not just tracked together.

On another note, I was always impressed with the sound of Crappin You Negative and Eureka for being pretty good for being done quite a bit with 4 tracks.

Ain't My Lookout is quite good, a bit better than Full Blown Possession, which I have grown to like with time. The biggest change of their last couple of albums is that their sound is pretty high gloss and doesn't have nearly the weird exploding guitar sounds like their first two albums, but the songs are all pretty good.

I never heard that very first ep before One Sock Missing, but it is supposedly not all that hot.

One Sock Missing has some good songs but with much less fidelity than Crappin' You Negative. "She Blows Blasts of Static" is a great song and the title fits how it sounds so very well.

we never played in Las Vegas. I've never even been there.

Stan and I both play in Dragoon. Check us out. You might hear where some of the grifters' patented chaos came from. Also if you check out our myspace page click on BOB on our friends list for a look at me and Stan's ( and John Stivers) high school band. the impetus behind much of the grifters improvisational nature (though right now, all that's up on the page are selections from our goofier side)

Scott is playing with Memphis Babylon (Choppergirl backed by a rock band)
and he runs Hoodoo Labs which has been producing a lot of great Memphis rap.

I'm not sure what's up with Dave's projects. I know Kevin March left to do a project with Craig Wedren (Shudder to Think).

There's been talk of reunion shows but I'll go ahead and say that I'm the hold-out. I'm finally in a band I really love and frankly Dave left us in the dust on his quest for whatever and I don't particularly relish the thought of returning to that situation. So.... sorry but the only time Dave wants to work with us is when his other projects hit a lull and I loved the band too much to watch it be reduced to some kind of fall-back position.

And I have to say this. Every single article or online discussion or blog or whatever that I've ever read about us describes it as being the songwriting team of Shouse and Taylor. That's not the way it was.

Yes, there are some songs that are completely Dave, like Eureka IV, X-Ray Hip, Queen of the table Waters, Felt-Tipped Over, #1 to name a few.

There are a few songs that are completely Scott's like, Sain, 10,000, Hours, Piddlebach, Shark.

And there are some songs that are completely mine like, You be the Stranger, Fixed in the Sky, Here Comes Larry (all instrumentals. in fact, You Be the Stranger was performed by me, Stan, and John Stivers. So there's a performance by BOB on our last record truth be told.)

BUT the grifters were mainly a collective. MOST of our songs were written by commitee. There are a lot of songs that I brought in as basically instrumental guitar rock that would end up having lyrics written for them. I brought in Corolla Hoist, Maps of the Sun, Covered With Flies, passing Out, Mysterious Friends, Wreck, Holmes, Happy, Casual Years and Contact Me Now and they became grifters songs at practice. Which was sometimes a gut-wrenching experience. I was pretty bummed out by the way the song Happy became 'Bastard Soulsified'.

Songs like Rats or Side were things that Scott had that we worked up at practice. Those songs are so chaotic sounding because of the way we would drunkly eviscerate them. (grifters practices were usually a buffet of beer, weed, acid, liquor)

There were songs like Bummer which started as a jam on one of Scott's riffs then Dave took it home and came up with a verse and some lyrics.

There were some songs that started with John Stivers giving me a riff that I brought to practice and they became grifters staples like, Founder's Day Parade and most notably Junkie Blood (which started out as a BOB song)

So I'm sorry if I ruined some of the mystery surrounding our stuff but I often feel like even though I did some of the best work I've ever done with the Grifters my contribution was completely nebulous. Nobody knows what I did and as a result, most of what I did is attributed to Dave or Scott.

I never wrote any lyrics (not many anyway) but I'm all over those records. I usually played as much guitar on any given record as Scott or Dave. Covered With Flies, Corolla Hoist, Maps of the Sun, Mysterious Friends all have a whole lot of my guitar playing on them.

I know I've attained McCartney-level pettiness with this post but it drives me nuts. Really. Do you like it when someone else gets credit for your work?

And for what it's worth, I truly feel that Scott is the most under-appreciated lyricist of the 90's. And my favorite songs of ours are X-Ray Hip and Felt Tipped Over (both Dave tunes)

-Tripp

sorry for nerding up your board

naw, Columbia was always a bright spot on tour.

from what i can remember.

xpost

The analogy I always use to describe it is... it's like a girlfriend you use to have. The sex was incredible and it was a wild time BUT you fought a lot and she was always flirting with other guys. So you break up and it's a nasty break-up.
But a couple of years later you run into each other and enough time has passed that really all you remember is the great sex and it turns out you're both available at the time so you jump back in the sack and give things another try. Then sure enough, a week later you realize you have all the same problems you use to have and you kick yourself for being stupid enough to get back together.

did you move to NYC with all the other Columbians?

xpost

KCOU KCOU 88.1 BIG STAR ALEX CHILTON JODY STEPHENS GRIFTERS MEMPHIS GREG DULLI VAN DYKE PARKS ROAD TRIP TO CHICAGO ROLLERBLADES KCOU JEFF BREEZE UP AGAINST THE WALL MOTHERFUCKER.

And nah, Tripp. It was up in the rafters of the Blue Note while Seam was playing. Grifters are still in my top five Memphis bands.

yeah, the Clears were Alicia Trout and Shelby Bryant and Brad.... something.

Alicia is like the queen of memphis now. she's awesome.
if you go to myspace look for River City Tanlines or Contaminated Records.

Shelby put out some stuff on Steve Shelly's label . Look for
Cloud Wow Music.

but yeah, FBP is sorely lacking in the chaos department.

LPOE? If so, yeah that was on time. I tried to make the Murphy's show w/ Wallendas the other night, but was road worn. (Juicy J was, up until a couple of months ago, my boss. I know S. from when Yvonne B used to make me go to yoga with her. Ok, she didn't make me.)

Kristen found me via the grifters myspace page so that was cool.

Stan's 15 year old son runs the grifters page but I give him stuff for it all the time.

I'll try to put up that live version of Crashing Jet sometime.

Also, if you look on our friends list and go to Flecton Big Sky that's our old friend Miche Jette. the songs on his page are from his record that features der grifters backing him up (as well as Califone). Those recordings represent the last time the grifters recorded together.

we did record 2 songs later that year but the tape was lost forever so the Flecton recordings are it.

rad ... I will check that out

I saw Kristen a couple years ago at (drumroll) ... an nyc Bloodthirsty Lovers show. ha.

I still see Tim whenever Califone's in town. Which is never enough for me.

http://www.myspace.com/dragoonmemphis

Also, if you frequent the BOB page, right now I'm kind of posting stuff from our tenth grade year (1982 or so) but pretty quickly it'll get into our eh.. less-goofy years and you can start to hear me and Stan find our footing as musicians.

still works.

you have to be a huge nerd to give a shit.

I'm sorry I broke up your black panther party.

I've made a huge mistake.

Is this the Goner board!??! AW SHIT!!

somewhere i still have awesome 4 track cassette recording of that show at barking legs in chattanooga (also known as the one where ***kicked*** that exercise ball into the overhead light, and better known to me personally as the first date with my ex-wife).

speaking of wives, when stan jokingly introduced me to his wife as "the fifth grifter," i was so totally weirdly elated by that. hah.

Used to talk to your little brother sometimes but it's durn good to hear from you. When's the new Yeti coming out?

Piddlebach is the coolest fucking song ever recorded.

I am done here.

Bardo Pond's done pretty good for themselves, eh?
We had a collective band-crush on Isobel.

ALSO I listened the hell out of the Shelby Bryant album after a friend picked it up by chance on emusic and loved it, and it just seemed so totally out there that I don't know if I'm excited to read that he was in other bands or if I don't want to hear them in case he begins to make sense. It tickles pretty much the opposite neurons to the Grifters for me though, just as a warning to anyone who might scratch their heads at my excitement.

everyone should own the Clears' first (only?) cd.

Every single track is fantastic AND it was recorded in my old apartment (by Roy Berry)

and have we mentioned the simple ones yet? that's kinda mandatory with a grifters/memphis/indie thread.

this is a band I played with from late 98 to 2001.
I wasn't doing too much musically after the grifters'
initial demise so I was elated when my friends Stu Sikes
and Brian McKay called and asked me to join.

Initially the band was the 2 of them with Max Tepper.
Max moved back to NYC and started the band Natural History
but we carried on with some guest guitarists. One of whom was
Tim Prudhomme who lived in Mempho for about 5 years.

If you listen to the song Song In F you can hear pretty much
every guitarist who ever played in the band. It was a song Max
kinda started, then he left. In fact, when Max he announced it
to me first and the first thing out of my mouth was "Can we keep
Song in F?!"

So Max wrote a good chunk of the verse, Brian wrote the chorus
and I more or less came up with the bridge (bridges are my specialty)
and on the bridge you can hear Max's guitar, Brian's, Tim's, Jared McStay's, and Jerome's. (as well as my bass and I also laid down all the electric piano and mellotron.) So that one part of the song features performances recorded over the course of a year and a half.

It was pretty sweet being in a band with Stu because it meant we got to practice at Easley/McCain's. And record there for free basically.

If you like what you hear you can order it from Shangri-La.

http://www.shangri.com/cd_memphisindie.html

ALSO I should mention that Max left us Song In F before any lyrics were written so we all took a try at writing them but ultimately we took a poem my wife wrote and rearranged it slightly. Then Jerome and Lori McStay sang it.

My wife cried just a little bit the first time she heard it.

or here

http://www.myspace.com/lamarrecords

it's a little label me and Jared McStay started a few years ago
(Jared from the Simpletones, now owner of Shangri-La records)

We basically started the label so the Jetty Webb cd would see the
light of day.

We also put a STAFF ep. STAFF was me and Tim Prudhomme and Geoff Soule of the band FUCK. Technically, I'm still in Staff but Geoff now lives in Italy. Tim moved to New Orleans about a month before Katrina hit. They use whatever bass player they can get their hands on but if they're ever in my neck of the woods I get to be the go-to guy.

the other band on there is PAPER PLATES which is another band I got asked to join. I probably would've passed but Bobby (Dragoon) was writing really sweet pop songs and I couldn't resist. So I pretty much joined Staff and paper plates around the same time (2002)

And Breeze isn't that hard to find on the InterWeb, for anyone lookin'

I put some live stuff from the 2000 reunion tour on the myspace page.

the version of Crashing Jet on there alright. the mix was a little wonky, drums are way up there. BUT it's the only version there is of us doing it.

the live version of Bronze Cast and Dayshift (which I'll post sometime soon) are from the same show. Lawrence, KS. December 2000. I believe we were playing with Califone that night!

For those looking to contact me, I can be found during my days right now at the Middle East where I'm in charge of local booking. I've also got a slew of bands I'm playing in that you can find online: myspace.com/mostbitter myspace.com/cbop most prominent among those.

Anyway for Grifters content: I still have my 'Grifters Rock My World' handmade t-shirt from that first show at the Blue Note (Monday Night with Zoom and Seam) (hey Tre, I always thought you were in the rafters with Dave not Tripp). I'm trying to recall how many states I saw the band play in but there's a lot between Boston and Texas and Atlanta (hey this is Superbowl weekend, you're not in some stripmall bar in Miami, are you?)

Last time I saw the band was at the Pilot Light in Knoxville which was a truly divine night in late 2000...

xoxo to all
Jeff

http://www.myspace.com/141849898

I don't expect anybody to be impressed but hopefully it'll make you laugh a little. But like I said, once it gets up into our senior year of high school things suddenly get a lot more rocking.

here's a little bit of trivia for ye..

...where to begin..?

I use to date this girl named Jean when I was like 21. It turned out she was Shouse's main squeeze and she was kinda using me to make him jealous. I guess it worked cause she dumped me after a month or so. But we remained good friends.
The first time I met Dave was at a DB's show at the Antenna Club in mempho circa 1987. He knew about who I was and I knew who he was and we didn't say much to each other.

So a while later they broke up. She and I hung out a lot (she was gorgeous and I had a huge crush) but she knew about BOB. I'd played her some stuff which she probably thought was terrible.

in late 1988 Dave met Scott through Think As Inca's drummer Paul Buchiniani (sp?). Paul and Scott went to school together and paul gave Dave a hot monkey tape. So that's essentially how dave and Scott met.
they tentatively started a band that had no name.

in early 89 I moved back to memphis after living in Roanoke Virginia for about 8 months. I ran into Jean pretty quickly and she told me her old boyfriend Dave was starting a new band and was looking for a bass player. She said she had told him about me and BOB and that he loved the name BOB for a band and, according to her, he wished he could've used it.

What did he come up with instead?

You guessed it.

BUD.

.....

I told Jean I wasn't interested if for nothing else i was scared to death of playing in front of people.

a month or so later jean pointed out to me that Dave had placed an ad in the Memphis Flyer. it said something like "Bass player needed. Influences: Mission of Burma, Pere Ubu.. (somebody else). call Dave"

I didn't answer and as far as I know only a couple of dudes did. And they didn't pan out so well.

So out of desperation Dave called me and we got to talking and it turned out he lived literally right around the corner from me so I walked over and he smoked me out and played me a few things. I think it was The Want, Daydream Riot, and an early version of Black Fuel to which I added the bridge.

And we were off.

I didn't meet Scott til a month later. He apparently was following the Dead around selling acid quite a bit back then. We finally met and realized we'd seen each other at the Tiger Den (the commissary at our college Memphis State) and it turned out he was friends with all the hippy kids in my art classes that I couldn't stand. Little did I know they would all end up being our original fan-base.

And they had some goood weed so that didn't hurt.

We made it to Mempho in '98 and amongst other less obvious sites, we made it to Shangri La and The Antenna - I swear i spooted two Grifters shirts there that night, but sadly it was some hardcore band from Ohio playing.

The Antenna was like a bigger Adelphi to me. Classy joint.

GRIFTERS - out and out classic to me.

Reformyafuckers

Cheers
Paul

Remember that time in the bathroom at the Corky's in Germantown with the german sherpard and the paraplegic fortune teller?

Steve Shasta
Professional Wakeboarder
Asst. Editor, WakeboardingOnline.com

this is kinda weird cause i was just talking to a co-worker of mine about that Hull show this afternoon I swear to god.
Told him how I made the classic american blunder...

our FIRST show overseas was in Hull, England. We flew into london, went and rented our equipment, stopped at a truck stop and had mushy peas and gravy then hit the road for the 5 or so hour drive to Hull.
So we were pretty zapped. When we finally pulled into the verdant paradise that is Hull (wink) I went right to the bar and got a beer. the big lug that ran the place and apparently lived upstairs (?) gave me a nice big pint and I took a sip and said 'Whoa man, I think your refrigeration unit is out or somethin;...'

So he loved me, I'm sure.

that was also the night whassisname came to the show and wrote about it. ... ...... god what was his name......
Everett True!

I remember my bass fell off me during our set and the head of he bass landed on my beer glass. But I caught it by the strap so it didn't fully hit the floor, the head just hit the pint glass with a 'tong' sound and a big triangular piece of glass broke off and landed in the glass. Since it was my last beer (fuckin' drink tickets!) I picked it up, pulled out the shard of glass and finished it off from the unbroken side.

hey. I've done grosser shit, believe me.

Btut Everett romanticized that moment in his article like it was some great punk rock moment. Really, I'm just a clumsy drunk.

Paul Jackson - still lives upstairs and still wears his Grifters shirt. No, really. . He gets quality beer in and turns it all into warm vinegar.Legendary cellarman - but it ain';t a cellar - I can't tell you where it is. So where you stay that night?
Legendary club though thanks to that man really - hey you tread the same boards as Radiohead, Oasis, PJ Harvey, Naked Raygun!, the once OK soul Asylum, God Machine, my band.

Take care.

Some nice insights there.

Let snobby people scoff, but I loved a lot of Grifters music- I really did. You had your own special sound and gave me a lot of pleasure.

Hull Is not too disimilar to Memphis btw. i guess you didn;t make it down town? The gallows and so on?

I remember ET being there. Wasn't he Kurdt Cobain's dad or something? He posts on here I think- or has done

really.

so how widely read is this board?

Cause i've been saying all this wacked out shit.

Tabloid journos, solicitors, Gary Numan, the peabody ducks, Poison Idea roadies.

Keep noodling that bass fella - us Limeys off to bed. Good talking to you. Cheers

goodnight you....Princes of Hull.

we stayed upstairs at the Adelphi that night. with the other band I think. It was just some big junky room with some sofas and carpets and crap layin around. it really was like some kind of weird dream.

mostly what i remember is our tour manager, who we'd obviously just met, this is our first night all bedding down together. a) he's walking around in some pretty tight Calvin Klein underwear and socks and thats about it. While we're all fully fully clothed for fear of bed-bugs ( which we had encountered before staying at some punk rock club in kansas) .

and b) our new TM gets up in the middle of the night and walks over to the wall near where Dave is sleeping, and he whips it out and starts to take a leak!

good times.

ps. no-one was peed on

If anyone's interested email me. I think he's asking 1500.

One memorable offstage moment happened in the front 'bar' at Adelphi. I was playing pool and heading for an eight ball ,of course, but then - mucky water started spurting onto the table from the lampshade above - the lights started to flicker, the dodgy indie band in the front started to wobble - and then - without warning - Jacko burst through the door leading 'upstairs' engulfed in steam and a fleabitten , dog chewed, very ill fitting towelling dressing gown- chanting 'Oh dear!' at his soggy ceiling- the hardcore scenescetter had overflowed his bath. Fkin rock n roll!

Please use this thread to continue to tell Grifters stories, they are highly enjoyable. I'm sure you have a million of 'em. Also, I listened to One Sock Missing a few days ago and "Bummer" is still in my head--no need to get it out at the present moment.

Best,

Clif Steele's Doppleganger

now THAT's funny!

btw i didn't mean to sound like I was ragging on Hull. We loved it. I remember tall tall grass growing out of the pavement and around the buildings. For being the first place I'd ever visited overseas I thought it was (sniff) magical. Even the Adelphi. That was such a great time.

What kind of bands have you seen over in Hull lately? Anything stick out?

bands, I mean.

thats digital.

imagine Scott and Gene Simmons hanging out backstage.

i do.

all the time.

Cinnamon was written one day when we were stuck at Dave's parent's house in Fayetteville Tennessee. I don't really remember why we were stuck there. But we were there for three days. and it was boring. We set up in their garage and killed as much time as we could rehearsing. ( I think we just had three days in between a couple of shows and it was a free place to stay..so..)

Some of you may remember that at live shows we used to do this thing where we would throw sheets of paper on the ground with notes written on them. Musical notes, like one sheet had a big G on it, another one had a big Bflat on it and so on. Sometimes at shows (usually during the bridge to Bummer ) one of us would walk up and step on the G and we'd all start jamming on G. Sometimes we'd step on a combination of notes. Like Dave would walk across and step on G, Bflat , and F or something and we'd try to hit it all together. Most of the time it was pretty wild. A few times it kinda fell on it's face. But for the most part it was pretty entertaining. one time we hung the notes over the stage so the entire audience could see what we were doing.

SO ANYWAY, back to the Shouse family garage. We thought we'd try writing a song using the note-sheets. Thats what Cinnamon is. thats why there are these dramatic key changes throughout the song. Like, within the verses. But especially in the third verse (?) where it's like a hot potato is being passed around.

it was just weird. Kind of an unnatural way of writing a song but fun for sure.

And here's a little spoiler..if you want to retain 'the mystery' read no further.
.
.
.
.
the crazy ending to Cinnamon was a total flub.
What happened was I had the idea for the fake-out ending while we were recording it (this would've been just a month or two after writing it in the garage) So I hit that bass riff "Boogay-Doogay Doo-dow , Boogay-Doogay Doo-dow, Boogay-Doogay Doo-dow. Boogay-Doogay Doo-dow" and Stan got lost and didn't know where the 1 was. So he came in on like, 2 and. (1and2and3and4and) but that was one of those happy accidents. We played it wrong but it sounded cool.

me and Stan use to have people come up to us and they would specifically point out that part of the song and it was like they thought we were from Frank Zappa's band or something. They'd be like "you guys are the tightest rhthym section, man!" and we'd just laugh.

We tried to play Cinnamon live a few times but the arrangement was so tight that invariably one of us would eff it up. So we gave up on it and we never wrote a song using the chord sheets again. But it was an interesting experiment.

Flecton Big Sky - I stumbled across their myspace site some months ago and right away heard da Grifters sound, so that fits.

So, while were on the subject tell me about the guitar tunings - a fair wack of alternate tunings? DADGAD?

Go write a book man! If any of those musings are anything to go by...

D
A
D
Gflat
A
D

..

the tuning for Covered With Flies was real messed up

B
B (yep, the whole octave_
B (the same B as above)_
Gflat
B (another octave up)
and probably another Gflat

the first two chords of the song are just the open strings
then you grab the 2 middle strings (what would nromally be the D and G strings) on the second fret and just bend it around some.

Then pretty much every riff in the song consists of making the chords by holding down all the strings on the same fret

the ending is a lot of fun to play that way. also fun to play slide on. amaze your friends!

it's a great memory!

Tragic memories based purely on the landscape of the town... I'd say thats a tie between Dresden (Germany) and Detroit.

it'a just a thre--fingered chord, all in the same fret.

if it's like this

1
2
3
4
5
6

then on the same fret hold down 1, 2, and 4
and slide that baby around the neck some.

------*---
------*---
----------
------*---
----------
----------

if you hit a sour chord just slide whichever finger you have on the 4th string and slide it down one fret.

------*------
------*------
-------------
---------*---
-------------
-------------

this is like, a zillion grifters songs.

How the heck did you guys get that exploding guitar sound on "Black Fuel Incinerator" the one that kind of blows up and then phases all over the place on the last chorus. That thing sounded really wicked.

Hull has got a lot in commom with Dresden -they were both reciprocally Blitzreig bopped in WW2 - in fact, the Adelphi car park is a bombsite- in more ways than one, all literally.
Detroit looked like a bombsite when I was there in '94- all these unwelcome wide open spaces downtown. I was there with my good friend Tim who used to run Ajax records - he is now an elite marathon runner

You asked about recent bands playing there. I saw the terrific juggernaut Lightning Bolt ,and the the excellent Centro _matic fairly recently.

I don't get out as much now - the lure of a lady (and added bonus of a 7yr old kid) has taken me to the south bank of the Humber (remember the suspension bridge?)- as ill - advised, stupid, and downright boring culturally as it gets - perhaps like if you relocated to west Memphis?

well, I can't be 100% sure which guitar you're talking about.
Dave did one track of backwards guitar that starts during the bridge. He wrote a line for it thenrecorded it on the four-track then played that backwards and learned how to play it backwards.
So when were were recording the actual song Doug and Davis flipped the 2inch tape and Dave played the 'backwards riff'. So when we flipped the 2inch tape back over the riff .
I seem to recall this was kinda inspired by Twin Peaks when David Lynch had them learn their lines backwards (for the black lodge sequences) then they'd show it backwards so it sounded like an alien language.

There's another guitar that Scott laid down that comes in right before the first chorus. I don't know what he did exactly. Sounds like maybe he was messing with a digital delay..?

so it makes an A major when you play it all open.

then me and John used to do an open E tuning
then Dave figured out it was easier on the guitar neck if you tuned everything down to a D (as opposed to winding all the strings UP which makes them snap a lot more easily.)

if you try the A tuning try these chords

__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I__I_*I__I
__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I__I__I_*I
__I__I__I__I__I

and this one

__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I_*I__I__I
__I__I__I__I__I
__I__I_*I__I__I
__I__I__I__I__I

and combinations of those up and down the neck.

thats a whole bunch of Big Star songs. Try picking out
Watch The Sunrise and Try Again.

Even if you can't play the guitar you can do the D tuning and you too can sound amazing instantly!!

Most people decide they want to learn guitar but give up after a week because you don't sound kick-ass immediately.
I swear, try the D tuning and you be whiling away the hours.

whiling?
is that right?

You correct about alt tunings being a remedy for guitarist's block - back in the day i used to fk around with all types of tunings, mainly due to lack of ability and creativity - the beautiful dronings and harmonics you just cannot get with standard tuning.

Dragoon sound mighty fine btw.

I'd say the Dead weren't an influence musically as much as they were philosophically. And the Dead provide a unique perspective on the band/audience dynamic. that point is not lost on anyone who has ever attended a Grateful Dead show proper. There's a real connection.

here's some grifter trivia for you...

did you know that Scott and Kurt Cobain share the exact same birthday.

Like, the same hour.

If a local band wears their Big Star influence on their sleeve too much though it's kind of a turn off.

On the other hand i remember seeing the band Agitpop at the Antenna Club and they did a cover of You Get What You Deserve and everyone there wept copious tears of gratitude.

ok, maybe not but it did mean a lot to the audience.

I'm kinda drunk.

and I've got jury duty tomorrow,

and so on.

I know I didn't have too much stuff on there.

Eureka IV was all Dave

His Jesus Song was all Scott except for the bridge which was mine.

Slow Day was all Dave (with a nice flourish from John Stivers at the very end)

Felix Cole was heavily Scott's but everyone tweaked the arrangement
(and I got to do the guitar solo)

Founder's Day was another BOB song that Dave took and ran with
(Stivers wrote that intro riff and I wrote the verse riff, and I'm playing guitar on that one)

Banjo was heavily Scott's but again we kinda gutted it. Scott was writing a lot of irish drinking songs so we were trying to undo that sound a little so I wrote a guitar line that was maybe a little more Stax-inspired but I ended up turning the guitar riff into that bouncy bass line. One of my favorite bass lines to play btw. Then Dave added that very last part which he said came to him in a dream.
Also thats me playing the shuffly drum throughout and Roy Berry is playing that bell.

And X-Ray Hip is all Dave, he even wrote the bass line.
But the line at the end about the dead bat came from a BOB song.
Stivers full line was "I'm gonna spread you out, like a dead bat, wrap you up in cellophane baby and sell you for parts in a medical show."
that line cracked me up so bad.

interesting. is this something you guys actually talked about?

we didn't sit around and say that we need to cultivate that kind of dynamic by any means but there would be moments onstage when we were playing and we were all blotto, and the audience was mostly blotto, and we'd look at each other and have that unspoken agreement that we had tapped into that same dynamic a little.

We didn't think were anything like the grateful dead BUT, like them, people who loved acid seemed to dig us. which is weird because we didn't do a lot of feelgood 'jamming' or anything.

seemed like we'd be the source of a bad trip.

have we talked about live recordings? i only got to see you guys twice, but i'd love to hear some live tapes, especially ones that go pretty out there.

Founder's Day is one of my fave Grifter's songs ever.I just love that dripping melancholy and the guitar lines
I've never heard Impala - wasn't that your friend's band (Stivers)

You may well have been a trippin tripp and all rock n roll but there's some glorious sadness in there
...the casual years, sain,founders day, junkie blood, contact me now...black bile by the bucket load

... and yes, plain old Big Star sadness - certainly evokes the same feeling - probably plain old nostalgia for something that never happened .Or maybe they're all ecstacy fuelled motherbangers...

You mention K C. Was it true that Spin thought Ain't My Lookout was a concept album about Kurt Cobain's suicide!Jeebus G! I remember those trendy fucks at the NME panned it - on the premise you weren't Britpop.The post 'grunge/lo fi'- come to think of it- USA- backlash.

I've done enough Tripp stalking now

Thanks for the great rekids.

Let us know how Dragoon are shaping. You may even get to the Adelphi? I'll ask Jacko to fumigate'upstairs', but I doubt he's talking to me yet.

.......

SAIN is scott's baby. don't want to take credit.

casual years was something i was very proud of though
and I'd say that there is defintiely some Big Star influence if not just outright Chris Bell influence on it.
thank you D tuning.

I don't remember SPIN saying that about AIM. I don't think it was a concept album but maybe nobody told me..

You might like Impala. If you like the Ventures you'll like Impala.
I believe I saw one of them boys in here last week. i love Impala. My favorite memphis band of the 90's.

,,,
here's a true story from the vault...

We were in Hollywood once (on tour, not making pornos) and before leaving town we stopped for lunch at Barney's Beanery. I swear their menu is like a whole section of the New York Times. Huge omelettes and whatever. If it's still there I recommend.
great bloody marys.

So it's us, Martin the soundman and our ole girlfriend Jean (who happened to be in LA taking care of her brother).

In walks Quentin Tarantino and Jean screams "OH MY GOD ITS QUENTIN TARANTINO!!" So we all immediately crouch behind our gigantic menus, embarassed.

But there he was with a lovely young lady. no idea who.
Me and Scott and martin go outside the restaurant for a smoke and martin suggests we give him a grifters cd. So I volunteered for the mission.

Unfortunately the van is backed up to a wall and the cd's are in the merch case at the bottom of everything. I checked in the front to see if there was anything laying out. There wasn't. BUT I did find an Impala cd. I don't remember which one. Rancho Reverbo? Kings of the Strip?

So i walked up and gave it to mr tarantino. I said nothing. he politely said 'oh, thanks man' and I assume he thought we were Impala.

Could it be a coincidence that a few years later, Quentin's buddy George Clooney wanted to use some Impala stuff in Confessions of a Dangerous Mind?

actually, yeah. it probably was a coincidence.

.......

SAIN is scott's baby. don't want to take credit.

...

ALSO y'know, the BOB version of Junkie Blood (which obviously wasn't called Junkie Blood) sounded nothing like the grifters version. BOB's version sounded like Sittin On The Dock of the Bay. Dave took it and slowed it waaay down to Codeine-speed (the band not the...)
He took one of our goof-offs and made it something really cool.

audience recording and Peel Session up now on D!mead0zen.

I'm ecstatic to hear this, annoyed that I can't seem to join the site, and saddened that nobody else flipped out over the news. Every week or so I have to play Soda Pop and She Blows Blasts of Static to remind myself that no, nobody does anything like this anymore.

dlp email me

Consider me also flipped out. A 1994 sbd show from Philadelphia had just been put up in the last week or two previous as well. (The Soda Pop/Blasts of Static single is always right by the turntable for me too.)

YAY!!! My favorite band!
Under The Ground - "Please Don't Tease Me, Tease Me Like That, Especially When I'm Holding This Baseball Bat"

I've been playing my Grifters mix non-stop lately. What is the link to D!mead0zen? I can't find it.

I wouldn't mind buying 'No Particular Slogan' singles collection if any of you know where to get that. Maybe I can mail: THE GRIFTERS c/o Raleigh Springs Mall, Memphis.

What is the link to D!mead0zen? I can't find it.

neither can I and i've tried many a permutation- any joy Capatin Lorax or is 'sleeve' around to assist?

no joy yet

it's www.D!mead0zen.org, but with the more normal characters in there.

Also, it took me a while to be able to log on, but persistance paid off and I did finally get this.

Listening to 'Crappin' You Negative' right now.

It must be the water in Memphis.

Where the hell is Tripp with more anecdotes?

Do I need sectioning?

I was listening to this just the other day. It's just a flat-out awesome American rock album. I love that murky groove on "Get Out of That Spaceship and Fight Like a Man."

one of my favorite song titles ever^^^

ber ber ber ber bump

Grumptious open tunings in da flower shop

whatup yall? I forgot my password and had to re-register..

I don't know if you knew but Scott and Dave have a band now called New Mary Jane.

Shame you not involved in that Tripp - that bass was always a huge part of the Grifters groove - but as you have hinted at before - too much water under. Not really in the know with the Grifters split but kind of surprised that Scott and Dave are performing together again? Any good?

Dragoon still bouncing?

Grifters are still my favorite band in the world ever. Sometimes I don't let people know about The Grifters because I don't feel they are worthy enough to know about music like this. Besides that, I don't think a lot of my friends would understand how cool Grifters are when they know jack shit about music in general (except that stuff on the radio).

Are Grifters an acquired taste? Perhaps. But if you listened to lots of outlandish music growing up than maybe the Grifters will sound perfect on so many levels that the idea of them being an acquired taste seems absurd.

Anyone have A Band Called Bud or Hot Monkey mp3s?

BTW, as the person who started this thread lo these many moons ago, I now renounce my earlier opinion of the later Grifters albums as less than prime. That is, the Shangri-La stuff is still the gold standard, but I have found the Sub Pop albums have plenty of tunes that grew on me in the fullness of time. So there.

Sometimes I don't let people know about The Grifters because I don't feel they are worthy enough to know about music like this. Besides that, I don't think a lot of my friends would understand how cool Grifters are when they know jack shit about music in general (except that stuff on the radio).

You don't sound like a very good friend.

Dragoon is still slugging through.

myspace.com/dragoonmemphis

trying to get the first record done. Everything's recorded just need to mix a few things. And get it mastered. And do all the art.. it'll never get done..

I've been adding photos to the Grifters myspace page

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=66945055&albumId=1861489

more to come probably

Dave and Scott's new thing; Dave is playing bass, Scott's on guitar, John Argroves is on drums. John plays in about a hundred bands in Memphis. he's great. I hear they use a lot of the same toys that BTL used. Sequencers and such. And I think the only Grifters' song they do is Banjo.
I haven't heard them yet.

I've been thinking about posting some Bud stuff on the myspace page but every time I go back and listen to it it freaks me out. it's too much f___ing perspective.

"Not really in the know with the Grifters split but kind of surprised that Scott and Dave are performing together again? Any good?"

I was surprised too. I think they were maybe hoping that the grifters would have returned by now and be out on the reunion circuit. Which is something I really don't want to do. For one thing I don't have time. So I guess they're going for the next best thing. From what I hear from friends NMJ supposedly sound a bit like BTL but y'know, with Scott on guitar.

I just think it's good that Scott's back into doing something again.

i got there too late for NMJ when they played, but I did see The Simple Ones follow and that was pretty ace!

wanna hear Dragoon performing Grifters songs with vocals by audience members? We call it Grifteroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6odQieEKcY

this is from a recent show at Sluggo's in Pensacola Fla.

Trippster

get Dragoon to the Hull Adelphi or even the Lincoln Imp in Scunthorpe and I'll play Grifteroke.

Are you insured?

Long live Grifters.

Fuck you doubters.

Hull and Scunthorpe.

Nowhere can compete.

Fuck you doubters

shame no one caught the grifteroke at the Bucc a couple of weeks before. it was a thing of beauty, y'all. Also, Greg Ginn in attendance(!)

caught on video

Greg Ginn!!!!I have visions of him with a guitar permanently strapped on. Shooting atonal randomness 24/7

Was he wigging out? Did Dragoon play 'Rise Above'? A crime if they didn't. Or maybe a note 'perfect' 'The Process of Weeding Out'?

Where's the vid Will?

typographical error. i don't think it was caught on video, unless tripp knows something i don't.

but Dragoon's playing tonight, for anyone in the vicinity of Mem!

Fuck - wish I was in Memphis right now. Will never forget my trip there. Overton Square?

Shangri La records had a big hand painted sign outside- 'Big Ass Cds'

And then we finished up at the Antenna club to see some dodgy Ohio hardcore band. But, saw at least two homemade Grifters shirts in there.

Sun studios and Graceland were a limp second

Cheers.

Since I have all the Grifters albums (huge fan), I'm trying to get The Blood Thirsty Lovers - self titled and Hot Monkey - Lazy (something or nother). Amazon.com has good used prices

Don't forget Grifters singles...lotta good stuff that's not on album out there!

check Shangri-la for Blood Thirsty etc and Hot Monkey, Champ!, and other Griftage. Call the store (901) 274-1916

excellent

now we're 2 for 4, when will Dave or Stan post

superb!!

hey scott it's mcgonigal. how you doing? grifters still rule my world.

when stan introduced me to his wife as "the fifth grifter" -- why i have no idea i'm so musically inept and etc. -- it was seriously a total highlight of my life. hah.

So I've seen 2 different interviews now with Bruce Pavvit and Jonathon Poneman where they describe the grifters as being at the center of 'the dark years' at Subpop. That they signed us for too much money (even giving out numbers.. which I thought was an industry no-no) and that we were pretty good but not deserving of that kind of money..

well, first off, Bruce was barely even involved with the label the whole time we were there. All the employees at Subpop described Bruce as being this crazy guy who lives out in the mountains and every now and then he would send them some band and say 'sign these guys, they're great' (anyone remember Chixdiggit?) and then everyone at the label had to do so, apparently begrudgingly. They essentially described it as being saddled with him. 'but he's the co-founder of the label so what're you gonna do?'.

secondly, maybe Subpop could have made a return on their investment in us if they, oh I dunno, TRIED! They barely did any advertising. I told them they should take out an ad for us in some Fantagraphics comics (which they used to do all the time) but they didn't. I think they maybe bought some tiny ad space in an issue of Magnet.
They chose Last Man Alive as the 'single' from the record. And we had a big fight with them about it. Well, I had a big fight. Dave seemed pretty pleased with the decision. They tried to placate me by saying that it didn't really matter because nothing we chose would ever really get any airplay. If thats the case why NOT pick a song that is maybe at least SOMEWHAT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE BAND'S SOUND! And why then spend $50,000 on a video that will ALSO NEVER BE SEEN OR HEARD.?

Maybe it was because they were such amazingly inept business people? OR maybe they wanted us to tank. Why did they make SO MANY wrong decisions regarding Aint My Lookout? Why did they let Those Bastard Souls do a major tour with Sebadoh exactly when we should've been out touring supporting the record? Me and Scott and Stan were told that Sebadoh didn't want to get blown off the stage by us every night... I have to kinda think that blowing Sebadoh off the stage every night MIGHT'VE BEEN A GREAT WAY TO SUPPORT THE NEW RECORD!
But that was Dave dicking us over more than Subpop, they just let it happen.

And what happened right before Full Blown Possession came out? Almost the entire staff left Subpop and a lot of them ended up at Matador. There was a so-called mutiny supposedly spear-headed by Poneman. it seemed to us that they were trying to get out of their deal with Warners by losing a lot of money.

Like I said, maybe they could've made a return on their investment if they'd been better business people. Maybe they didn't want to make a return. From what I saw when we were with them they never worked anything. They had a hit with Sunny Day Real Estate but that was because SDRE did it themselves. They built their own fan-base and did all the hard work (as did we) and then all Subpop had to do was squirt out some records for them and they sold themselves. But we never saw them get off their asses and work anything. What I saw was the staff of Subpop flying all over the country and the world and staying at THEE most posh hotels in whatever city they were in. They friggin LOVED playing Record Company when it meant traveling with the gold card.

So lay off the effing Grifters Pavvitt. Not that you were there but we threw you a friggin touchdown pass with Ain't My Lookout and you fucking fumbled it ON PURPOSE.

And at the same time we had to contend with Dave's not so secretly-scheming to advance TBS. I've read articles where people are saying we'd run our course and that Ain't My Lookout was a bomb. Well let me tell ya it was really hard trying to eek out a little success when your label is sitting on their fat asses doing nothing and at the same time one of the band-members is plotting their exit and stealing tours from you.

And now years later we have to endure this bullshit rewriting of our own friggin history..?! IF YOU DIDN'T THINK WE WERE WORTH THE MONEY YOU SIGNED US FOR THEN WHY DID YOU DO IT? WHY'D YOU STEP INTO A BIDDING WAR IF YOU DIDN'T PLAN ON FOLLOWING THROUGH? DID YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO?

I will say that Joyce Linehan was a great friend to us and I feel truly believed in us and fought for us.

daaammn!

hey Will, whassup mang?

what kills me about those interviews is Bruce is doing all the talking (about us) and Poneman is just sitting there. Why don't you let the guy who was actually there talk about it some.?

not much.. settling into new job. any ideas for entertainment tonight? ...cause i ran across VHS copies of Beaches and the Sabrina remake. j/k dude j/k

Tripp

Glad I never made it in a band!

I still love the Grifters!

You got to play the Hull aDELPHI TOO?

Jeebus - looks like I've got my tongue stuck up your hole.sorry

ain't my lookout is awesome.

Will, come on over tonight if you want. Sheri's making some kind of dip.

I read something else recently where some dude said that Ain't My Lookout was over-cooked and Full Blown Possession was a return to basics..!?!?

I'd say FBP was over-cooked and absolutely was not a return to basics. For one thing, Subpop made us hire a mixer so it was our first time doing automated mixing (in a House of Blues studio no less). It wasn't a return to anything.

Aint My Lookout was our favorite because we were firing on all cylinders
(and we mixed it at Easley's like we always had). We know the fans all like Crappin' You Negative the best. We really liked that one too but by the time it had come out about half the songs had already appeared somewhere else. There had been singles versions of Holmes, Junkie Blood, Bronze Cast, Spaceship. And Black Fuel had already been on a compilation as well as the first BUD tape.

So AML, to us, was the ultimate realization of what we could do. Maybe it was 'over-cooked' compared to some of our other output but to us we'd finally hit a stride.

And FBP couldn't be a return to basics because we never worked quite that way before. We weren't collaborating very well, we had to split the recording between two studios, and we didn't get to mix it. We helped with the mixing but the automation certainly took some of the weirdness out of it.

You know, if it weren't for Sub Pop, I wouldn't have gotten to hang out with the Grifters on a "junket" which led to two things - my discovery of Paines' BBQ and a week-long hangover. So, well, there's that.

Tripp- can I come over? I will wear tight Calvins for old time's sake ;-)

just don't pee on anybody.

Jacko asks if scat is acceptable.
Does Mempho have canals?
Our longboat is a bit special

Just been out into the cold ,grey, rainy gloom and it's dicking fucked flooded!
Advice to get Tennessee please?

oh shit - i've done a wrong un again with my THUMBNAIL SKETCH

FREEKOZOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TWAT
sorry , night night

wot a fuckin freak
care in the community haa failed again

i just got full blown posesssion yesterday

my first grifters record

i love it

scuzz blues are my favorite blues

My fav band ever - get One Sock Missing, Ain't My Lookout and the first 2 EPs (The Doink Years). Those are my favorites.

that is about their least scuzzy record big HOOS, you've got some primo scuzz-blues discovery in store if you get some of the other ones

crappin you negative

Crappin You Negative is A++ scuzz, sounds like a rock band should.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtTCPiw-If0

Yeah but the end of "The Sweetest Thing" may be their most gorgeous moment.

i am

the mambo king

Wrapped tight in my tarantula skin

their most gorgeous moment = gotta be something off the Eureka EP. maybe Founder's Day Parade.

Dragoon (Tripp and Stan from the Grifters + Bobby from Trusty) has something out now:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003FF8860/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp_mp3a

Dragoon is still slugging through.

myspace.com/dragoonmemphis

trying to get the first record done. Everything's recorded just need to mix a few things. And get it mastered. And do all the art.. it'll never get done..

― griftertripp, Wednesday, May 7, 2008 10:41 AM

their most gorgeous moment = gotta be something off the Eureka EP. maybe Founder's Day Parade.[

Founder's Day Parade is indeed a gorgeous tune.

The Grifters are still one of my favourite bands ever along with Ramones, Buzzcocks,Du, Mats et al - 'famous' bands if y'like

i think "wonder" is a pretty song

friend of mine just ripped a Grifters live show from cassette

http://soundcloud.com/dan-lehr/the-grifters-cha1994

live in Chattanooga, November 4th, 1994, at the Barking Legs Theater

Snake Oil
Bronze Cast
Wonder
Maps of the Sun
Holmes
Sain
Dead Already (incomplete)
Side
Steam
the Casual Years
Tat
Skin Man Palace
Corolla Hoist
Ground
Return to Cinder
10,000
Encrusted
Felt Tipped Over
Shark (incomplete)
You Don't Miss Your Water
Love X (incomplete)

I <3 this thread

Reformed?
Reunion shows for you lucky Memphibians

dammmmmn

!

Already happened. Video at http://www.rocketscienceaudio.com/ (you have to register)

Yeah but... I want to see them on the east coast :(

Wandering Boy Poet - thanks so much for the almighty link.

Given that they won't be visiting Ol' blighty again, any clues as to how to save this vid in case it walks?

It's some annoying new format. I've grabbed the (literally) 1000 or so fragments, but the methods for joining them don't seem to work for me (& I haven't got anything that'll play the fragments). Need to get back onto researching it.

Cheers WBT. please keep me updated. Not been lazy there, I'm just not tech and too fucking burnt out to learn

I haven't tried it, but the Firefox "Download Helper" add-on might work. It doesn't catch on to every web player but you can get lucky.

Evan. Thanks. Hopefully you have e mail?

i just dug out the eureka ep for the first time in…a decade?

some observations just because i wonder what this sounds like to other people almost 20 years on

eureka iv -- i still like this song, although what was up with gold boys and ray guns in the 90s? it sounds weird now.
his jesus song -- awesome, still love this and i would not mind being in this band
x-ray hip -- what the fucking fuck is going on with the singing/lyrics in this song. awful. otherwise it's fine but not memorable
there's also a song that sounds like an alex chilton impersonator

i guess part of it held up ok. that's not bad! the only song i could really get into was his jesus song. this video is pretty awesome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=995hAm-wcys

Relistened to it, still think it's their most solid release, though other albums contain some better songs.

I've always linked Eureka with Urge Overkill's Stull EP from a few years previous. Comes right between the promising/catchy/eccentric minor league album and the major label jump. Features an eclectic bunch of stuff, some much more accessible than anything previous, some out-there. Like a last-minute housecleaning before getting more focused. Actually there's a bit of similarity between the two bands' career arcs, probably due to the state of the music business at the time more than anything else, I'd guess. Especially:

Supersonic Storybook/Crappin You Negative
Eureka/Stull
Ain't My Lookout/Saturation
Full Blown Possession/Exit The Dragon

One Sock Missing is my favorite Grifters album, and one of my favorite albums from the 90's.

I only saw them once at a small bar around '95? They were good and sloppy or sloppy good I guess.

I still remember some drunk from the back kept yelling out, "Rolling Stones!"

I guess I could see them covering a couple of the 'Exile' songs.

mmhmm

Grifters show in September at Gonerfest and two in November in NYC

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2014/08/memphis_legends.html

drudgesiren.gif

got my tickets for Glasslands already. thinkin I'll go to both of the new york ones. one of my favorite live bands of all time.

see u at mercury lounge

high five

I need to get on this.

awesome, got glasslands tickets.

I just saw this, and it was too great not to mention. Bunch of blue-collar guys just jamming on the street. I'm guessing they'll do a Bad Company cover...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL6ctSaNQVg

Oh, to be, the state of the art, of boho/alt

nobody loves babies in bars
better than yourself

Still salty I missed the NYC show in 2014.

Cool jerk
No particular slogan
Signs are for the bottomless pit
Where nobody's going

love that song so much

i am

the mambo king

― mookieproof, Monday, April 19, 2010 1:31 AM (twelve years ago)

Wrapped tight in my tarantula skin

― CaptainLorax, Monday, April 19, 2010 2:45 AM (twelve years ago)

The situation's growing hopelеss
So I pretended not to noticе