why dont black people really like any music other than black music?

Why is your question not directed AT black people? would we not be the best source of the information you're looking for?

btw, I know this thread is bullshit but I'm just humouring you.

I'm black, I grew up among many black people, and I'm the only one I know who listened to "white" music and was often ridiculed for it(but in a cheeky way, nothing hostile).

this notion that all white people are just SO eclectic and love ALL black music is bollocks anyway.

they're only joking because this thread has been done a million times.

Umm but umm seriously Lovelace I don't think you're right about that at all -- my experience has always been that black people like plenty of white artists. Some form of stereotyping just happens to result in this being totally underdiscussed, so that white people freak out when they learn that e.g. "omigod black people like Phil Collins??? but I thought they only liked rap and stuff."

i am uncomfortable with the idea that this is not up for levelheaded discussion. though i think the answer seems somewhat obvious... and given that people seem to think the original poster was trolling, i guess i'll withhold til people start talking.

also, don't know whether (if he was trolling) it's not unreasonable to forget/take for granted how many black people might actually read ilm.

i'm not racist in the slightest, so if anybody does respond, please forgo kneejerks.

yeah and you think white people listening to hip hop in the 80s/early 90s didnt get ridiculed for it either? for 'trying to be black' etc etc?

thats what everyone says.

okok:
who cares if that's what every/anyone says? i'm secure in that statement. i am as likely to unfortunately stereotype some people in mostly threatening instances where, i'm, say, 'round crenshaw at 3:30 in the morning on foot... but come on... if it wasn't one thing i was afraid of, i'd probably find monsters to be afraid of in the white suburbs, or a psycho (you know, because there's no black serial killers {really, there's not, is there?]).

Fuck, I'm surprised that anyone likes Phil Collins!

is it that simple? i dont think this is about geography. its not like the black community in london listens to say, (a british genre like) grime over hip hop and dancehall. if that was the case it would be selling a lot more!

what is REAL black culture? would would black culture look like/sound like/etc without the tarnish, firstworld?

Here's the thing. Really seriously. When people say stuff like in this thread title it's basically just a vicious circle of assumptions -- black people "only" listen to e.g. hip-hop if your idea of "authentic blackness" involves traits like listening to hip-hop. Weird black evangelicals who listen to cheesy white-Christian music don't count because they're "exceptions" to this stupid concept of "actual-blackness," and black kids who like indie don't count for the same reason, and 10-year-old middle-class black girls who really like Hillary Duff don't count for the same reason, and so you whittle down to your already-existing idea of what the core of blackness is, and then you look at it like an idiot and say "Hey, how come black people all conform to the exact stereotypes I use to decide what black people are like?"

White people pushing derivativeness on the blacks again! Just like crack in the ghettos!

fresh prince -- "real".
lil jon -- real.
t.i. -- rilly real.
missy -- real
david banner -- Real.
mike jones -- “real”
eminem -- real
2pac -- 4real
biggie -- "Real."

get it?

i love that "black music" is a "genre"

and yes, there are tons of other threads about this very subject, some of which are alternately funnier and more offensive (like the "why does black people never want to rock" thread linked earlier).

That's one of the funny fuzzy things in this conversation (which I suppose is to be expected, given that it was started by a troll): what does "black music" mean? Genres enjoyed/sustained by black listeners? (Which would make the question kind of tautological, right?) Or music made by black people? The question pretends that they're the same thing for artists as well as listeners, and they're not.

I'm still confused by okok's rock shows without non-white people, though. I don't think I've even been to super-indie shows that didn't at least have a bunch of east Asians there, if not south Asians, black hipsters, etc. And if you talk about mainstream popular-culture "rock" music, there are still reasonable amounts of diversity, whether it's Latinos at a nu-metal show or the near-proportional smattering of all races for Maroon 5 or something.

The main thing that scares me, though, is the weird invisibility of black people who don't fit the standard underclass model. Americans of all races are obsessed with that black-underclass model, but when black people aren't in it -- which is supposedly what we all officially want to happen -- they become invisible, un-"real", absent from the way people think about race. Which is bizarre, since these are exactly the people who come in closest contact with middle-class white people -- they're the regular-old black people working in your office and maybe listening to some Toni Braxton during the commute home, the people you presumably get along with less as "black people" and more as just some folks you know from wherever it is you know them -- and they're cut out of the discourse! Because we continually cut away "real" blackness to mean "the Other" blackness.

this is interesting... ie, "you're only REALLY black if I'm scared and/or confused by you" is the subtext.

I'm surprised we still bother to mention when nabisco's otm.

or have we dealt with this already by saying that of course black people venture out of 'black music' (as if this is some grand gesture to be applauded), its often just not seen as being 'real' black people (whatever that means) - i suppose in this thread were saying 'white people' as = white masses and 'black people' as black masses. im still not totally into having to justify that yes, black people do listen to non black music though, does it really matter if they dont? its not as if all white people like all black music is it? anyway, i know plenty of black people who like various types of music.

oh this thread is pissing me off.

http://www.lindamcalistertalent.com/gallery/061404-gilliam4.jpg

the majority of the music i listen to is "black" these days. of course i'm counting anything with a groove so...regardless, i'm not hurting for variety.

http://www.ufm.uaem.mx/especiales04/img_2001/2001/kraftwerk/02.jpg

http://park1.wakwak.com/~record/image250.jpg

Great thread

good god, i missed this thread at the time.

Me too. The original poster's most important question still unanswered though: why the hell do black people love Jim Reeves at the expense of all other white artists? "O_o"

Who doesn't like Jim Reeves?

Hasn't Jim Reeves always had a huge following in South Africa?

And Herman OTM -- Reeves is smooth.

The original poster's most important question still unanswered though: why the hell do black people love Jim Reeves at the expense of all other white artists? "O_o"

― anatol_merklich, Saturday, October 18, 2008 9:20 PM (

My google search shows-

NPR weekend edition story: April 7, 2007 - American-style country music might not seem like just the thing to catch on in Africa. But listeners in Nairobi, Kenya, are crazy about it. They're particularly fond of Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton.

wikapaedia-In the early 1960s, Reeves was more popular than Elvis Presley in South Africa. During this period, he recorded several albums in Afrikaans. In 1963 he starred in a South African film, Kimberley Jim, which was the biggest South African production up to that date.

Very interesting curmudgeon I had no idea abt Reeves' popularity many places!

American-style country music might not seem like just the thing to catch on in Africa.

Um why not really? (I realize this is your google search, not your words.) Why should songs of personal joy, grief and whatever not touch people who hear it, even if they live on another continent? Is this a case of USers being apologetic abt country music, as if it were some plague they've let loose on the world (aided by the Germans or something)?

Sales statistics show that Africans are way more likely to get into "white" European/American music than African Americans.
And judging from what kind of music is popular there, the Japanese probably have the "whitest" musical taste in the world. They never get enough of McCartney-esque melodic pop.

hmmmph

http://i35.tinypic.com/o7ooj9.gif

wikapaedia-In the early 1960s, Reeves was more popular than Elvis Presley in South Africa. During this period, he recorded several albums in Afrikaans. In 1963 he starred in a South African film, Kimberley Jim, which was the biggest South African production up to that date.

You are aware that there is a huge white population in South Africa, and that in the 60s they had most of the money, which enabled them to buy most of the music?

Still, even recently, there have been examples of typical "white" music doing well in South Africa. And one would now expect the black part of the population to participate in the buying too.

I'd like to see Geir's sales statistics.

Actually, in the case of Africa, I don't think that sales would tell much about the taste of the people anyway. In poor countries, most people cannot afford to buy records. But they still like music.

You'll find (generally speaking), they tend to buy records more. And play them more often.

But they still like music.

Wow. I did not know that.

Surely the tastes of Africans and African Americans don't count anyway because they don't like melodic synth prog enough?

what about afrikaans?

Surely the tastes of Africans and African Americans don't count anyway because they don't like melodic synth prog enough?

There are those of them that do, and there are others that sadly don't.

I mean, I am not so interested in putting "race" on music. Generally the world would have been a better place musically if all races and all Nationalities considered melody and harmony the two most important elements in all music.

suggest ban

whatev. the black dudes in my neighborhood are rocking Yessongs like nonstop.

the thread that keeps on giving

Westlife are very popular in East Africa, as I know from experience.

Westlife are very popular everywhere.

yeah...

13 number one hit singles, at present.

The beatles had 17.

It's just a matter of time...

wow...weird..my best friend from HS roomed with a guy from nigeria in college and we hung out a lot...anyway he LOVED jim reeves (his dad was a big fan)..kinda surprised me, wrote it off to a personal/family quirky taste thing, am surprised to hear that reeves is just big in africa in general! that's super awesome and cool.

XP. The moment The Beatles are beaten by Westlife in the case of #1 singles is when people will definitely stop using chart positions to back why The Beatles are great.

Jim Reeves C/D?

why should black people HAVE to listen to non black music? what is this rule that says they have to do this? is there not enough variety in black music already?

Well, given the treatment of Geir on these boards, people clearly have a problem with people who in the main listen to white music.

but there's still this issue of 'black people not liking non black music' to contend with. i dont really have a problem with it, personally, as lots of ethnic groups dont really venture out of their musical comfort zone that much so black people arent that different.

And yet, Geir gets called a racist.

what does a guy saying dumb shit three years ago have to do with geir being a racist

Why are black people always listening to stuff like Talulah Gosh and Henry's Dress? Are the Pastels too "cracker" for their taste?

knew a guy from grenada at uni who said that incubus and linkin park were pretty big back home.

Surely the tastes of Africans and African Americans don't count anyway because they don't like melodic synth prog enough?
There are those of them that do, and there are others that sadly don't

I love this.

There are tons of people here who "in the main listen to white music" and don't catch shit for it because they're not absurd and obnoxious about it

The entire ILM was started as a "LOL, people who listen to white music are stupid and they should listen to black music (and manufactured white kidpop) instead".

good thing you showed up to set it all straight then

Dad's drunk!

xpost

The ILM

OMG, Geir found something new to be wrong about!

Geir is Burzum you guys

I hear there's rumours on the ILMs

Geir with an heroically blatant attempt to get a post made into the ILM board description there

I like the "really" in the thread title.

Sounds like they're not putting in enough effort.

Sounds like they're kidding us on.

Sounds like they're faking it.

Well, look at things a bit closer then.

The original ILM was definitely about defending the good old pop single, as opposed to the more "rockist" notion of the album "canon". ILM back then was also very into what was the current chartpop of 2001, i.e. hip-hop, hip-hop influenced R&B and manufactured kidpop (boy/girl bands).

Upon these premises, one would expect ILM to back everything that the kids are into, particularly if the traditional "rockist" will write it off. But then, what happens? In 2002-03, along comes a new generation of manufactured punkpoppers. Obviously, the "rockists" hate them as everything about them is just as manufactured as everything about boy/girl bands used to be. But is it backed by ILM? No. Why? Because they are rooted in AOR, new wave and powerpop rather than in disco, funk or hip-hop. And, of course, ILM feels the need to write off anything that isn't rooted in so-called "black" music. So, as opposed to everything else the kids are into and the critics hate, ILM choose to part with the critics in their hatred of Pink, Avril Lavigne and the likes.

why the fuck do you post here then?

i think it is you who should look at thinks a bit closer my friend!!

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070503/scifigallery/quantumleap_l.jpg

do you write letters to the source complaining that they put rappers on the cover and don't follow the new generation of punkpoppers "because they are rooted in AOR, new wave and powerpop rather than in disco, funk or hip-hop."

The Source is a hip-hop mag, and one would expect them to back hip-hop
ILM is a pop site, and one would expect ILM to back pop. Punkpop is pop.

pink, avril lavigne, my chemical romance, linkin park, and pop punk in general have a lot of vocal defenders on ilm.

So does indie and the "canon" too. But how many of them are among those who lament current ILM and long back the the original ILM where everyone agreed that R&B, funk and hip-hop is better than anything else?

why do you give a shit?

do you have some names for the characters you're bringin up here? who are you talking about "lamenting"?

you seem really pent up with anxiety about this and caught up in a huge conflict that nobody else is in. the "originial ILM mission" (if there was such a thing) was to forget all about a "which is better" approach to genres and having everyone talk about everything on an equal basis. most of the ilm old guard grew up on indie and still loved it dearly, i have no idea what you're so pissed off about.

nobody is preventing you from listening to all the music you love. it's all still there. if other people like stuff you think it awful, why should you give a shit? why do you want to stop them?

nobody is preventing you from listening to all the music you love. it's all still there.

Actually, around 1990, it wasn't. There was hardly any new music being released within my favourite genres at all. At least Britpop made things better.

I'm feeling a 6 to 18 month jazz revival coming on. I should take the time and fill in some of the gaps.

hahahahahahahahah omg this thread is hysterical

How close is Geir to 50?

The moment The Beatles are beaten by Westlife in the case of #1 singles is when people will definitely stop using chart positions to back why The Beatles are great.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, October 20, 2008 3:48 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I think they've stopped doing that some time ago, but yes.

The thread is full of craziness, of course. But it is quite interesting to think about ILM itself changing, as Hongro suggests. It's true I suppose that Freaky Trigger c.2000-1 was very pro-chart / pop. I wouldn't want to say this was pro-'black music'; most of the acts that were discussed were probably white. ILM somewhat followed the FT emphasis ... but actually, I remember tons of ILM threads c.2001 that weren't about chart pop at all, but about indie, postpunk and the like.

Whether the dominant ILM aesthetic has changed would be quite interesting to know or consider, except the more I think about it, the less I think there is an ILM aesthetic.

I think it's purely down to more people being around "now"

I say "now" but as you say, it (must have) changed from 2002 onwards...

(I joined around then, it was all The Rapture and hating Bono around then)

ILM is a msg board which has voted 'Loveless' the greatest album of the 90s and 'Kid A' the greatest album of 2000-2004

Years ago I briefly dated a guy from Rwanda. The first time he came over, I was unconsciously playing only black music for him. After awhile, he asked, "Do you have any Eric Clapton?"

http://www.firminy.fr/data/fichiers/pages/Image/Culture/concert-jazz.jpg

Early ILM voted Loveless the greatest record of all time.

ILM is not a pop site. It's a music site. It covers pretty much EVERYTHING to some extent.

oddly it was only recently that i realised my impressions of early ilx were totally off base, cuz i only gleaned them from the old threads i'd actively searched for and read, ie all the theoretical rockism-style ones and the specific hip-hop/r&b/pop ones. dunno when the penny dropped that for all old-ilx's talk, really everyone was a standard corny indie fuxor. disappointing.

Latterday ILX (ILM?) would also vote Loveless etc...

You are aware that there is a huge white population in South Africa

You aware Geir that you talk bollocks? White population of South Africa is only 5 million odd - less than Norway!

this is a great thread, with a genius title. anyone who takes it seriously obviously can't discern irony.

Lex the Elbow and Electrelane fan was also a standard corny indie fux.

but i ~progressed~. i evolved. it is frustrating to see people not do the same!!

What do you intend to evolve into next?

I still love Loveless; there is no shame in that; it is magnificent.

The odd thing about The Rapture is -- their records are really awful.

I'm still back on how Geir managed to read only my posts and therefore decided that ILM en masse hated Avril Legine (and really I only ever bagged on "Sk8ter Boi").

I still like Echoes a hell of a lot but I'm not super interested in the stuff afterwards.

I always thought ILM liked Avril Lavigne. I like one or two of her records a lot.

Ah, they produced a shiny pop album, with their pix all over it, and the 'mystery' was gone.

xpost the Rapture, I mean.

I much prefer the shiny pop album by The Rapture.

Lex; "evolved" is subjective.

To be honest, I barely heard it.

The last Rapture album was much better than Echoes.

ILM is a msg board which has voted 'Loveless' the greatest album of the 90s and 'Kid A' the greatest album of 2000-2004

Preferring "Kid A" to "OK Computer" is still very typically ILM. Not because "Kid A" is "pop" or "black", but because "Kid A" is "Something else than guitar based indie rock with traditional melodic song structures".

appreciation of avril is easier when you don't think or talk about her, she's kind of annoying if you do.

thinking about what i am now vs what i was then puts a massive grin on my face nick, i have come so far ("evolved") (like cici!!). it's amazing.

That and OK Computer didn't come out between 2000 and 2004...

xpost

I'm still back on how Geir managed to read only my posts and therefore decided that ILM en masse hated Avril Legine (and really I only ever bagged on "Sk8ter Boi").

Now one thing is Avril Lavigne, but the hatred against Pink is very obvious. I mean, I prefer Avril Lavigne to Pink too, but both were a breath of fresh air when they appeared and washed away at least some of the R&B that completely owned the charts at the time. ILM, always being very pro-R&B, wasn't too fond of that development though.

but because "Kid A" is "Something else than guitar based indie rock with traditional melodic song structures".

Yeah. Good, isn't it, everybody?

LOL, so you only ever read Alex in NYC's posts on Pink?

geir, when pink appeared she did so with an r&b album written and produced by eg shekspere, kandi burruss and babyface

and even though that's still her only listenable album, she has many defenders and fans on ilm! too many considering how shit she is now

Geir do you apply this sort of nuance-free narrative thinking to other aspects of your life as well? If so, never tell your children how their parents met.

I guess what really made people go against her is when she abandonded R&B, started working with ex Non Blonde Linda Perry, and released stuff like "Don't Let Me Get Me" though.

"Don't Let Me Get Me" was her first good single though. Not because it "rocked", but because it was very tuneful, with a verse and a contrasting chorus and all.

If so, never tell your children how their parents met.

"children" <------------ mind blown

Children?

xpost

I mean, I prefer Avril Lavigne to Pink too, but both were a breath of fresh air when they appeared and washed away at least some of the R&B that completely owned the charts at the time.

Pink's first single was v rooted in contemporary R&B pop production style of the time.

ILM, always being very pro-R&B, wasn't too fond of that development though.

Talking about ILM as a single entity in this way just makes you look even more of a clueless idiot. Even more so when it doesn't demonstrate the actual truth.

I have no idea if these children exist.

Lex, you have still not explained what you are planning to evolve into next. Maybe whoever it is will not like the music you like now.

I have a slight impression that the last Rapture LP might be better than the previous one, btw. That one was quite shocking.

I have no idea if these children exist.

Josef Fritzl springs irresistibly but unfortunately to mind

also i don't think ilm was ever that pro-r&b. not really. it paid lip service to the big r&b singles and the "innovative" turn-of-the-century production, but there are only maybe 5 ilm posters who are actually into r&b as a genre, and lots of fairweather r&b fans have all but abandoned it now.

pionefox, who knows how i will evolve. i'm looking fwd to it though!

lex it seems as if you like fewer genres of music now than you did in the past. is there some sort of assurance you can give to your legion of fans out there that this is not the case?

This argument is fucking stupid because if there was one defining argument to early 00s ILM (and that's very debatable) it was "it's okay to be a dilettante".

It's a bit like when commentators on the left and right respectively describe Gordon Brown as a free-market loon and a quasi-Soviet control freak.

The Rapture album that was straight-up NYC indie kid bait with no real sense of joy or ugliness to it wasn't all that great (ie the one with the pink cover); I liked it at first but got very tired of it very quickly.

This argument is fucking stupid because if there was one defining argument to early 00s ILM (and that's very debatable) it was "it's okay to be a dilettante".

OTM, lock thread.

also the narcissism of balancing the scales vs tipping them the other way (xposts)

http://sidesalad.net/archives/DariusRuckerBurgerKing.jpg

This argument is fucking stupid because if there was one defining argument to early 00s ILM (and that's very debatable) it was "it's okay to be a dilettante".

oh i know it's just that what most people meant by dilettante is "pay attention to all pfork-approved big indie releases, maybe notice r&b singles if they're inescapable"

But, then, paying attention to the big indie releases back then was mostly about being against them. Plus indie was probably less popular in the late 90s/early 00s than it has been ever before (after the term occured in the mid 80s at least) or since. So what was the point, really?

1992

Why am I even bothering?

http://sidesalad.net/archives/DariusRuckerBurgerKing.jpg
http://sidesalad.net/archives/DariusRuckerBurgerKing.jpg
http://sidesalad.net/archives/DariusRuckerBurgerKing.jpg

So what was is the point, really?

Matt DC - Geir cannot and will not comment on his personal life anymore than he can use your name.

or ask the opinion of someone else

or convince them that he is right

etc.

Is it a language barrier thing? Cos English is his second language, right? Cos his English doesn't seem at all bad or poor or weak. So is it just a mental deficiency? Really pronounced autism or something? Inability to accept objects outside of clearly delineated favourite objects, and inability to address, or even seemingly understand, other people as individuals / human beings.

wait, who are we talking about now?

Gordon Brown?

Really pronounced autism or something?
Geez, I had never thought of that, but it makes sense. I think you may be on to something.

stay classy, ilx

You had honestly never thought of that?

i have honestly never attempted to conduct a completely unfounded, uninformed medical diagnosis of someone over the internet and then post that diagnosis to a public forum, no

unless calling someone a douche counts

n/a has prostatitis

This thread started low and is going downhill...

The entire ILM was started as a "LOL, people who listen to white music are stupid and they should listen to black music (and manufactured white kidpop) instead".

― Geir Hongro, Monday, October 20, 2008 6:10 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

It's true, all those alt.music.alternative posts were just cross posts from alt.music.blackpplmusic.

You're telling me that you'd never even considered Geir's deportment on here as abnormal?

C'mon, he's some kid of 49 who never goes anywhere, and listens to music all the time in his room. Sometimes he's not on ILM.

probably ILM's biggest ever loony, and that's saying something

OK, that's enough now

Geir's never disrupted a funeral or tried to con the families of 9/11 survivors out of money, so he's not the "biggest" loony.

dom do you think geir is more or less crazy than your average girlfriend

Less, obviously.

Also I'm pretty sure Geir exists and his pics are real.

never disrupted a funeral or tried to con the families of 9/11 survivors out of mone

at least these things only happened one time, not every day for years and years

Who disrupted a funeral / tried to con the families of 9/11 survivors out of money?

You're telling me that you'd never even considered Geir's deportment on here as abnormal?
Oh, absolutely. But I always attributed it to a combination of a language barrier and rabid solipsism.

Who disrupted a funeral / tried to con the families of 9/11 survivors out of money?

― Sick Mouthy (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 21 October 2008 16:13 (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Let's not.

Seriously, let's not.

Ah, history.... (xpost yeah, let's not)

Who disrupted a funeral / tried to con the families of 9/11 survivors out of money?

i'm amazed these subjects weren't discussed at length at the rocktimists/lbzc summit

Also he isn't a Bill Deedes impersonator.

I've never heard of those subjects before.

I'm all at sea

i'm amazed these subjects weren't discussed at length at the rocktimists/lbzc summit

― Annoying Display Name (blueski), Tuesday, 21 October 2008 16:15 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

We mainly talk about the 90s when we meet up, else Enrique gets a little agitated.

"What's 9/11?" being his main point re; current affairs. He can remember the death of Diana, though.

http://www.britmovie.co.uk/actors/d/images/007a.jpg

RIP BIG FELLA

Are we done here?

Think we were done here round about post 5?

http://www.memorygongs.com/come_to_hongro.jpg

― Trayce, Saturday, June 2, 2007 10:34 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Trayce: That pic goes straight into my Facebook images archive. Great ;)

― Geir Hongro, Sunday, June 3, 2007 12:42 PM (1 year ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink