The Field Mice: Cl*ss*c Or D*d

the another sunny day album is very good too. some kind of side project thingy.

do they bug me? no, not really, but then that might be due to my tight black sweater and sensitive haircut. no journal, though...

His writing tended to have that effect on me.

stalker pop haha... it´s true

blueboy and heavenly were certainly better bands on paper, but wratten's honest and personal approach to songwriting lifted the field mice above themselves.

i can understand why people would hate the band - not everyone wants to subject themselves to that level of emotional involvement. there are some songs, particularly "and before the first kiss", that i simply cannot listen to, for fear of being caught up in the emotional turmoil.

conversely, on the occasions when the tone is more upbeat the results are as uplifting as anything this side of the theme from shaft. "coach station reunion" makes me happy, and that in itself is enough to makes me declare the field mice CLASSIC.

I don't know Butterfly Child at all, but... since it's often me doing the comparing, I'll tell you why:

1) it is based on TBS's live shows, rather than their recorded output. Their recorded output is slightly less twee and more listenable except for the fact of

2) Commonality of "I didn't need to know that..." aspect of far too much lyrical sharing. Bob Wratten does it on a far more raw and (to me) unlistenable level, while the B&Sers tend to wrap it in layers of irony and sarcasm. But still.

Far prefer the Field Mice to the TBS, BTW.

I suppose it's more that I can only take a bit of them at a time, so I generally lock on the few songs that seem strong enough to transcend the often overbearing vocal treatment. I also don't think much of their Human League-esque electronic things although they're listenable.

"Emma's House" does sort of seem sui generis though, I could easily see someone liking that song and that song only. That person might be me, eventually.

Overall F.M. strike me as a WRONG reaction to music currents of the late '80s. Or at leasta profoundly reactionary one, sort of a dead end. That doesn't mean it didn't produce some good music.

David: yeah, that's a great line. It reminds me of driving around my home town or college town... physically everything is the same but emotionally all there are, are ghosts and memories. I think it's that sense of transience that makes the song stirring. Although I mostly like it because it's a very concise and self-confident pop song, sort of summarizes the (modest) virtues of the genre without being beholden to them.

Also "Emma's House" is one of the few F.M. songs that allows the emotions to emerge from the scenario, rather than detailing the emotions in deadening clinical terms or obvious metaphors.

how much FM have you actually heard? because i don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

Way to be diplomatic, Jim.

I suppose one problem I have with FM is how determinedly not-shouty it is, or rather how simpleminded is their solution to that perceived problem.

By "FM" I mean Field Mice, without exception. I've never heard them on the radio!

I wonder how this thread would've progressed if the confusion continued...??

is it fair to say that the FMs were one of the 'indie-dance' pioneers? and if so is this something to be proud of?

well what i'm getting at is that i think they pre-dated all that Madchester/"indie dance" nonsense (back when "indie dance" wasn't really dance at all)

Jim E-T: the idea that TFM were ever the Band You Had To Like in Exeter is baffling to me in the extreme. Did indie really have a heyday in Exeter? (I left the area in 1989 and kind of assumed that the same 10 people stayed liking that kind of stuff as had been interested for the previous five years.) TFM played their second (third?) ever show in Exeter, as I recall.

(Sorry Sarah)

Jesus, we must have overlapped. I was there from 89-91.

I saw the WDYLTKTW comp for a fiver and bought it meaning to flog it on e-bay for as much as it could get. I haven't sold the bugger yet, as I do very occasionally play the keybd/sequencer tracks which aren't bad. But the jangle-indie stuff is staggeringly useless - Wratten's lyrics are so *literal* and plain - no mystery, nothing unexpected, just 'I am so far way from you/summer's too long..blah blah blah.
How can anyone stand to listen to this shit? It's delivered in such a mopey, 'I'm so useless' milksop croon that you want to say 'Stop hanging around the fucking coach station you dozy twot and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!' Or bring back national service!
At least Morrissey was funny.

i like wratten veers towards the wet on many occasions, but how can you deny a song like "so said kay" or "missing the moon", two of their least literal (and most beautiful) songs..

I really dislike the record sleeves, for the most part, and I know I part ways not just with many of you but with several of my closer friends as well on this. I always thought the lettering was too big! They often seem like Minimalism for Dummies. (I guess this quality--a kind of studied naivete--is on purpose.) I find the For Keeps cover especially ugly. I like a lot of the covers to the Sarah comps, though.

This is something that bothered me about the FM, but now it doesn't for some reason. I think the first time I heard "If You Need Someone," I probably cringed.

If you need someone to tell you everything is gonna be alright, I can do that, I can do that, I can.

Bob is really a wimpy, wistful, fragile fellow (and seeing him live confirms this), and it comes off as completely honest. So it works for me. A little sincerity is refreshing nowadays, isn't it? (But I can *totally* see how people would hate his lyrics. I gave the comp to a friend of mine, and he said that he loved the music but sometimes the lyrics made him want to punch the guy.)

So, "Willow":
Don't you go thinking I never did love you

Kills me every time.

Matt Haynes makes me well cross with his attitude to reissues.

[Homer Simpson voice] Bids, anyone?

I bought all the records at the time because I loved the music, and I still love the music now, and it breaks my heart that I've had to sell them and I'll never be able to see them again, but on the other hand my financial needs (paying back a loan for an eye operation) are more important than music at the moment. I'm refusing to sell any of my Sarah CDs because it's those I play the most, but the vinyl can go in dribs and drabs and if people want to buy it, let them. I'd dearly love some kind of "Sarah Soup" compilations which compile all the first 50 singles onto CD (and I've done what I can from my collection anyway), but I don't think that's ever going to happen.

So, people like me will sell our records, and Matt will complain. But he's the only one with the power to do anything about it.

Matt's attitude to reissues/collectors annoys me too. But being realistic (and playing devil's advocate for a moment), he's working with limited funds, and, given the choice, wouldn't you prefer to release a new record than repress an old one? Either way, I get the impression he's really not interested in music any more, if indeed he ever was.

I won't go into the ins-&-outs of Bob's songwriting here; all a bit too close to home. But, cover designs: yes, uniformly bad. "Minimalism for Dummies"..exactly.

Marianna: a Bob W retirement fund is a *very* good idea...

But let's face it, as nice as the occasional Fosca or Tompot Blenny record are (and yours of course are marvellous, Harvey, any chance of another?) Shinkhansen seems to be slowly fading off into the distance, even a TBS compilation is like admitting defeat, that people only are interested in Bob's bands, and now they've gone I can't see the label lasting for too long. As Harvey says, I think Matt's lost interest in music.

(Of course, Matt could always reply to the contrary here)

At least the ASD sleeves had some enigmatic photos on 'em, and "Rebellion" is probably one of my fave sleeves ever (and I'm not just saying that to make Harvey happy, I remember seeing it in Replay in 1994 and thinking "That looks so cool, I've got to buy it on vinyl too").

Alternatively, I reckon London Weekend, Rebellion & California would all fit quite snugly on a single CD, which is quite appealing, if ultimately pointless.

If the comp is truly "worth" that much, I might make a copy for myself and sell it. (Who knows, by the time I get back from Europe, perhaps it will have been repressed.) Although mine's beaten up just a bit, as a result of the bad packaging that Gareth describes.

Yes. The second track of the last album WAS The Cure. It even had one of those wiggly bass breaks before the guitars come crashing back in...

my feelings are hurt so easily
that is the price that i pay
the price that i do pay
to appreciate
the beauty they're killing

I love the Field Mice, generally, but that song is too much even for me.

btw a number of people are still telling me it's a song about vegetarianism ?

this continues with the latest LP, thought it was booooring at first and now i think it's ace.

i don't have trouble with it, but this stuff seems like parody to me, whether intentional or not

i find it hard to take

the two are in some connected together in my mind.

I remember gareth said something about how hood's 'the cold house' reminded him of leeds but 'the leeds of robbie keane.' and I think this in someway relates but I can't get to grips with explaining why nor how.

this may be another folk method vs. pop method dichotomy, at the level of instinct rather than purpose.

(v.late reply to ESOJ - they both wouldn't exist without acid house, & I discovered them both through tom's top 100 singles of the nineties)

Young Gods, watch out, the Field Mice are behind you and they're signalling to overtake!"
- simon reynolds in melody maker circa 1991!

haha if I could chop them in half & keep the bit that did "Triangle", "Humblebee", "Missing The Moon", "It Isn't Forever", "Let's Kiss & Make Up" (& the others of that ilk) . . .

(btw ned is that where you lifted yr stephin merritt jab from? or does the phrase "death & my cock is the world" have some sort of propah-musical origin?)

I'm sure it has to be!

(did the post-FM pre-TBS band have many tracks in that sort of electronic style?)

find mp3s of "the way that stars die" or "monotone." you might see if you like the marine time keepers as well, they have a nice NPL thing going on their album. and alaska is fantastic.

An excess of Field Mice stuff is just rather *too much*. I like them in moderation; at their best, they are rather better than the twee stereotypes they are often monikered as; look at "Missing the Moon", "Indian Ocean", "Tilting at Windmills" (comparable as someone said above to what Seefeel and Disco Inferno were up to) and "It Isn't Forever" (hypnotic spirallings; sublime clatter from after 5:00). These are very atmospheric, inventive drifts. And the more straightforward stuff, sonically, can be much as excellent: "Coach Station Reunion", "Between Hello and Goodbye" (an aural clearness like Aztec Camera's "High Land, High Rain", though more muted and slight a song in comparison to Frame's), "If You Need Someone" (very New Order bassline), "Willow", "Canada" (positively jaunty, yet bittersweet; Willie Nelson ought to cover it) and "Emma's House". Most of those are more upbeat than their standard. And that standard can, across the 2-CD compilation, stultify a bit. There's a lack of contrast in style and tempo for much of CD2. It is largely there where for me the criticisms start to ring true; rather too much repetition, and nothing much interesting musically. The lyrics and vocals start to weary too, without odd, indie-ambient stuff like "Tilting at Windmills"... one can only take so much of these plaintive, earnest tones, and the word retread comes to mind with a lot of this material.

cozen can you give details on this docu?

or at least an awareness of different dramatic devices

Yeah, I really enjoyed that EP as well. I'm very excited.

for some reason i never heard much NPL stuff til recently, and that was a result of regaining my Bob faith with "Helen Reddy", the best thing he's done since the first TBS album. i do think he's a very consistent songwriter, perhaps moreso than, say, Stephin Merritt, but he has a voice it can sometimes be very easy to tire of.

hahahaha

but really, leave little bobby alone.

and the field mice? classic x 100,000,000,000

bobby is my baby, and, i am bobby's baby.

what a fucking songwriter.

surprisingly mediocre, except for "Emma's House" which is heartbreaking.

i don't really see how emma's house can be plucked out of their catalogue as being anything different to a huge number of their other songs

I dunno, it's my favourite Field Mice song as well.

The LTM Snowball CD is really good - the 1st album and related singles. Never really got into their later stuff much.

Does anybody have the Peel Session? I can't find it.

yeah "emma's house" is my favorite as well; seems to crystalize all their strengths into one perfect song with no chaff. "missing the moon" comes pretty close, though.

love "a wrong turn and raindrops" and whatever the "never to kiss again" song is also.

st et propelled their self-destructively limp "kiss and make up" into the cosmos

i'm talking the big shiny version on the american Foxbase Alpha, not the still-limp version that's on "you'll need a mess of help..."

So Said Kay for me. Not just because it's wrapped up in all sorts of personal and nostalgic reasons either, I just think it's a great song. One of their best, alongside Fabulous Friend, Wrong Turn and Raindrops, and, yeah, Emma's House.

Aw, nobody has said "Canada" yet?

so are there people who DON'T like stuff like "missing the moon" and "let's kiss and make up" with the beats and acid house noizes and such? just wondering. i love that stuff to death. janglegaze + beats and dance atmospherics works so well. probably explains why recurring is my fave sm3 album after the perfect prescription.

anyway, once or twice a year i pull out the two disc thing and am reminded of how much i luuuuuurve this band.

ah, here we are on this thread:

"most of their fans(the label too) didn't like the dancey stuff"

more fool them

This was a time when such things as 12" singles and drum machines were objects of loathing for a lot of the people who were into this scene so yeah, probably some people didn't like it. But I'm pretty sure their label was quite proud of Missing The Moon when it came out. I think I remember an editorial in one of their fanzines or whatever coming out in defiant support of the 12"-only release and the use of drum machines etc.

Of course, the vinyl version of Missing The Moon has "this record sells at 7" price" or something like that, prominently printed on the sleeve. The whole politics of that scene seems so quaint nowadays.

sarah were an extremely political label, with a business philosophy more in common with crass records than creation/anyotherindielabel of the 80s and 90s.

oh, and FM completely classic btw.

Depends what you mean by "political" really. The stuff Crass was putting out was directly political as well as being subversive in their marketing. Also, not a lot of the music on Crass would be touched by any other label. The Sarah acts, and the manner of marketing and distributing them were not particularly different from what Pink, Subway Organization, etc had been putting out for years. There's not a lot of real politics in the music, artwork or marketing of Sarah Records. But if giving away a postcard with a 7" record can be considered political because it enhances the value of the product and diminishes their profits then sure. I think their marketing was more or less typical for the time. Certainly there was a lot of "pay no more than..." stuff going on at the time - Creation Records did it a lot.

surprisingly mediocre, except for "Emma's House" which is heartbreaking.

― Jesus Christ, Attorney at Law (res), Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:59 PM (9 months ago) Bookmark

i sort of agree with this, although i'd say another dozen or so of their tracks are better than mediocre. but i almost never listen to this anymore, and when i do i tend to doze.

Man, I wanted to love the Field Mice 'cause the sound is really good, but the lyrics and the delivery just makes me want to smack him upside the head. Goth's may be as depressed as this but at least their music doesn't lead me to violence!

(I suppose being happily married also means the feelings expressed in these songs are much more remote.)

don't know what songs you heard but it is entirely possible to put together a decent FM playlist without all the mopey soppy shit

I was listening to the "Where'd You Learn To Kiss That Way" comp all day. By all means, please suggest a better playlist!

haha ok fair enough. i strongly believe, though far more of FM than anything he did afterwards, that he was quite a varied lyricist and painting his songs as depressive is to do him a disservice..

not much to be done though about the delivery tho!

The For Keeps LP is pretty upbeat. "Coach Station Reunion" chugs along in a similar vein as "Radio Free Europe". I prefer the down tempo stuff. I would hesitate to call it "mopey", though. Their best songs were biting and cruel ("The Letter", "The End of the Affair", etc.), a cut above typical Sarah Records/C86 fare.

despite my constant posting on this thread i haven't actually listened to any FM in a number of years. should probably do something about that i guess

I played some Field Mice/Trembling Blue Stars for a friend once and he described the singing as pretty awful moaning.

To each his own, I say.

I like how their lyrics sound like letters being rewritten as they are sung.

I could never hate you
I did not mean one word of what I said
I don't hate you
I love you
Let's kiss and make up
Let's you and I kiss and make up

or

he doesn't care about you, whereas, I do
he doesn't care about you as I do

I would never treat you as he does
behave that way, I'd never, towards you
you don't care what I would or would not do

he doesn't love you
I'm the one who loves you
you don't love me
he's the one you love

1. Five Moments 5:16 - never really paid attention to the lyrics but it's pretty
2. If You Need Someone 3:43 cheerful upbeat ode to friendship or more
3. Sensitive 5:03 -maybe the one that forever painted him in the mopey biz
4. Couldn't Feel Safer 3:44 cheerful, happy song about love
5. Below The Stars 5:32 this one is pretty chipper too though the tempo is slow
6. Coach Station Reunion 3:07 -cheerful upbeat number about being excitedly in love, although long distance
7. Everything About You 2:23 -cheerful love song
8. It Isn't Forever 5:59 -an unrequited love song, still not so miserable
9. Between Hello And Goodbye 2:26 -slow tempo but a love song somewhere in the middle, more melancholic than sad
10. And Before The First Kiss 5:53 -sad one
11. Tilting At Windmills 4:35 - instrumental, could be on tears on the dance floor post
12. Missing The Moon 6:59 more dance, upbeat
13. Let's Kiss And Make Up 6:09 upbeat but then to some field mice fans these are the saddest songs of all
14. Triangle 6:06 if these were on section 25 records everyone would love them
15. Canada 3:25 cheerful country song but sad lyrics
16. Anyone Else Isn't You 4:11 sad mopey
17. September's Not So Far Away 4:11 cheerful upbeat

so really, his default mode is not really morbidly depressed. at least not on disc one.

I imagine Bob Wratten gets quite a kick out of writing sour/dour songs of unrequited love. I mean, it's telling that he goes by "Bob" and not "Robert". (How differently would we view The Cure fronted by Bob Smith?)

i think he got better with trembling blue stars. "emma's house" is the only deathless field mice song IMO.

so i'm guessing the FM DM is a TR606? i know ian catt had one, but also a roland r8m, and i can't find anything that actually says what the "cheap drum machine" they started with was

just for information, like.

listening to this stuff properly for the first time in 8 years or something, snowball has not aged well

did field music get their name from ned's post upthread

snowball has not aged well

Yeah, this is what I was saying! I loved much of this stuff when I heard it in the early 90s but now it just makes me see red!

skywriting sounds fantastic tho, triangle surely broke a few twee hearts though, followed by a country-twee track!

I still love "Letting Go" a bunch.

Snowball has so many great songs on it, End Of The Affair, Couldn't Feel Safer, and Letting Go. Not as great as Skywriting or for keeps, but still is very dear to me. Trembling Blue Stars had a record last year that I just downloaded but haven't listened to it yet. I'm a sucker for this music though.

Don't understand why everyone on thread singles out 'Emma's House' - can't remember it as special.

Contra Ewing years ago, think they are indeed a mixed bag - some tracks I enjoy, lots I don't.

Best for me is probably 'September's Not So Far Away'. And I like a guitar part on 'I Thought Wrong' if that's what it's called.

Emmas House is classic.. As are pretty much all the 7"s (and So Said Kay).

The LP's were weaker imo. Snowball was pretty great at the time, but Skywriting was a little weak, and I really couldn't get into For Keeps at all..

classic!

i really really liked broken by whispers and i haven't listened to it since it came out. that's okay, right?

I've been listening to these guys a lot again lately, and the notion occurred to me that they remain sort of one of the last great undiscovered bands. Like, there's no reason more people shouldn't know of them or love them, fans of other acts like B&S or the Smiths or New Order or whatever, but I'm under the impression they're less known than even a band like the Go-Betweens. Did they ever get much traction at the time? Am I completely misinformed, and in fact the Field Mice are wildly popular/well-known?

And, wow, are those Sub Pop TBS albums really out of print?

At the time, the Field Mice were the most high profile Sarah Records band - but that's not saying much - but the music papers were generally negative about them, with the exception of two or three journalists per paper (Bob Stanley, Dave Simpson, Everett True, Ian Watson). They were known about, but rarely heard except on John Peel's show. So..hope that answers your question, at least from a British viewpoint.

for a very small group of people - mainly in England but I knew some people in Cambridge/Somerville who were head over heels about Sarah records & the Field Mice in particular - they loomed very large. That TBS Sub Pop album is a high point to my ears, the songwriting on it is top shelf. I mean they basically do the one thing, imo, whether it's the Field Mice or TBS, but when it's on and that's what you need, it's pretty perfect.

Cambridge/Somerville

I wonder if we're thinking of the same people!

This is my fave thing he's ever done (which may be yours, too!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCPbr8iLXE8:

that is indeed one of the all-time jams imo

i wonder how many people in the world would list "when morning comes to town" as their favorite song. 20,000? less? i wouldn't be a part of this group but i can definitely sympathize with their viewpoint. i love this sarah records stuff.

It might not be my favorite song but it's my favorite Field Mice-song with some margin, probably followed by Emma's House or "This Love is not Wrong. These are top, top tunes.

as someone with an almost pathological dislike of anything indie or twee, i always assumed the field mice would be the nadir of that genre. "emma's house" ticks almost every single box of things i dislike in music yet i have been unable to stop listening to it recently. "triangle" is great too. i'm almost afraid to listen to any more in case my entire belief system inplodes.

implodes.

Someone buy the Sarah catalog and reissue it already.

Are the LTM reissues from 10 years ago out of print?

love the field mice! i have two copies of that complete two cd thing. just in case!

quite a few sarah things have been popping up digitally in recent days, the orchids and blueboy singles among them

Wratton/the Field Mice are pretty special. I can totally conceive of a person liking them and still thinking indie was, otherwise, no damn good.

Finally bit the bullet and bought The Field Mice catalog on vinyl since I'm weary of them every reissuing them on vinyl (now would be the time since the documentary is out). I have an extra copy of Where'd You Learn To Kiss That Way up for grabs if anybody wants to trade. In search of Alaska or any of the singles from Northern Picture Library on vinyl.

Didn't see Gerald's response to my reissue cry 4 months ago, but yeah, bought the LTM reissues for Field Mice and NPL, but I want them on all vinyl. The Sarah Records story is pretty interesting and the original vinyl artifacts are cool to have.

Loving this Field Mice related record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2YM217Bhf4

It is indeed a fine album. Probably my most played of 2020.

Huh, I don't know these guys. So they have some connection to Trembling Blue Stars?

https://www.discogs.com/artist/3798108-The-Luxembourg-Signal

bobby wratten stole the show on their second album. this might as well be a field mice song from the vaults:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUV_Ciq2nsI

("fall feeling")

Related, this is interesting:

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/01/twee-fashion-indie-music-industry-sarah-records

skimmed. nothing revelatory to me, but cool piece nonetheless.

thanks for sharing, btw. good stuff.

New Twilight Hour LP called 'Overwintering' coming soon

wonderful news! i deleted my instagram and that was my source for updates on them, so thank you for posting! definitely been on my wish list for some time.

i also posted it on the trembling blue stars thread, but here's bobby's ambient cassette-only thing (released under the liath name) from 2017: quiet actions.

this is the most head-over-heels-in-love first listen I've had for any band in a long time, what the fuck

did you start listening to them because of the mouse murder thread, as an act of solidarity

No results found for "the killing field mice".

"Emma's House" over and over

Also "White"

"the killing field mice" omg

someone I'm pals with on RYM made a list of essential tweepop and put their big 1998 compilation on it. The first half of Disc 1 is amazing

they are wonderful. so are trembling blue stars, I think some of the songwriting there hits new heights for him but there's something special about the field mice

LJ may I recommend the twee Coil stylings of "Humblebee" (IIRC not on that comp)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVNWnn67X8c

Thanks, will try shortly!

I liked Disc 2 almost even more than Disc 1 in the end, there's some fantastic stuff buried deep within it. Always runs the risk of getting stuck in a sort of corny trance but there's so much lovely work throughout. The bassist is a hero

They are synonymous with twee in many circles, but there is so much more to them than that.

Absolutely. There's some serious (and highly varied) pastoral evocation going on here

holland street is a dazzling instrumental

i adore "missing the moon" but i've never really dug into them beyond that

“letting go” is really gorgeous and dreamy too, I don’t think it’s on the Shinkansen comp.

"Other Galaxies" is pretty epic by their standards, and only shows up on a Waaah! comp if I recall. They also recorded a version of Loop's "Burning Sky" for a Waaah! flexidisc. There could be an amazing collection of experimental stuff by The Field Mice in which the word "twee" dare not be spoken.

only field mice I own is For Keeps and it has such an inventive and surprising mix of styles, much more than I expected from their twee rep

I'm not super familiar with the Field Mice catalog but "Fabulous Friend" sounds like it came straight off of R.E.M.'s Reckoning, which is a very good thing in my book.

Too many people here need to explore more it seems

this song from a Peel Session is so good, v New Orderish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_27IUnBk1o

holland street is a dazzling instrumental

― brimstead, Monday, 18 December 2023 21:22 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this one absolutely leapt out at me yeah

Humblebee was lovely ty!

ditto Anoint

"Below The Stars" has a lovely Lazer Guided Melodies vibe. More of this sort of thing please!

Another obscure good one, originally given away on vinyl with Bob Stanley’s old Caff zine. Goes for a small fortune nowadays

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYsMIDKeMCI