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http://philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=10904

Die, Hipster, Die

There's so much to hate about that most loathsome subspecies of Philadelphian. You're not one of them, are you?


"Hipster: twenty-something stroketard whose style of clothing conflicts with their demeanor, thus resulting in a spicy pseudointellectual with more flavor-of-the-month conversations than a Long Island prostitute."

-Urban Dictionary

God bless the crazy, malnourished, bespectacled, follically challenged, hipper-than-thou little fucks.

Seriously. All the Pitchfork-addicted, soy-latte-drinking, Vice-reading, "Oh my God, my haircut's so intense and I wish I were in Williamsburg instead of NoLibs ... shit! The New York Times thinks we're the sixth borough-ew! That's, like, so mainstream, I'm outta here"-thinking, Converse-wearing, Silk City-loving, kitsch-obsessed, anally retentive muppets.

If it weren't for these rodent-faced, asexual, John Deere-cap-sporting fashion victims, I wouldn't have a life. Really. In the two long years I've been living in this gorgeous city (and yes, I mean that-you'll find nary a hint of irony in this rant ... or will you?), I've come to realize the hipster kids are my collective nemesis (along with jam-band fans, folky singer/songwriters, Young Republicans and public transport employees). They're the multitudinous Moriarty to my Sherlock Holmes.

It's getting so I can't kick back with a nice warm PBR and a shot at Bob and Barbara's or rifle through the used vinyl section at AKA Music (damn that elusive white-label Liquid Liquid 12-inch-will it ever be mine?) without some weasely wank whining that, like, Franz Ferdinand are so last year, and sneering at my choice of footwear. (For your information, Mr. Fashion Nazi-Dr. Martens are a timeless British fashion classic.)

The withering condescension is bad enough, and God knows I'm guilty of it myself, but what really gets on my tits is the overriding musical and cultural fascism, and the belief that populism is somehow inherently evil.

Don't get me wrong-99.9 percent of mainstream music is vapid, unlistenable dross, but duh! Tell me something I don't know. And yes, the general public are, by and large, subhuman pond scum with no taste, and populism for populism's sake is obviously not a good thing.

But please. Just because a band is on an ultra-obscure indie label doesn't give it instant credibility and/or superior talent. There's a simple reason why a huge number of supposed indie acts (most of whom would secretly suck Satan's festering cock for a major-label deal) remain obscure: because they're mind-numbingly tedious and deadly, deadly dull.

And for the love of God, all you members of the hipsterati, please leave your half-arsed attempts at irony at home. I'm rapidly developing irony fatigue.

And besides, you're Americans. It doesn't suit you.

Personally, I love all of ABBA's greatest hits (including "Voulez Vouz"), but it's a genuine love, born of an affection for huge, irrepressible, shiny, life-affirming pop, with the kind of hooks that dullards such as Deerhoof/Black Dice/Kimya Dawson (tick as applicable) can only dream of.

Personally, I blame it all on the likes of Kerouac, Ginsberg and bad old Bill Burroughs, an unholy cabal who back in the '50s not only wrote some of the most overrated, indulgent crap ever laid down on a page, but worse, as self-appointed avatars of cool, helped spoiled white middle-class brats discover the dubious joys (albeit in an incredibly patronizing, borderline racist way) of bebop and, God forbid, free jazz.

Granted, Miles Davis knocked out a few good riffs in his time, and John Coltrane was pretty handy with a sax, but free jazz? Christ on a bike, what were they thinking? The more I think about this, the more I start to realize that, historically, hipsters have been responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against music known to man, including, in no particular order or chronological timeline, the following:

>> 98 percent of the late-'60s San Francisco scene.

>> No wave.

>> New romanticism.

>> The entire "twee" movement.

>> Riot grrl.

>> Shoegazing.

>> Sarah Records.

>> The Pastels.

>> "Intelligent" drum 'n' bass.

>> Acid jazz.

>> Emo.

>> Electroclash.

>> Morrissey.

>> The entire post-punk-funk revival (Franz Ferdinand excepted, of course).

>> The Rapture.

>> The Strokes.

>> The Bravery.

>> Psych-folk.

You see? You see? And what's more, absolutely none of the above has an ounce of what the great Mojo Nixon once referred to as "the Elvis factor"-that combination of sex, swagger and style that only true rock 'n' roll titans can possess. For example, Iggy Pop has an Elvis factor around 96 percent, whereas Moby has about, hmm ... zero. Primal Scream have a rating around 75 percent, while fellow Scots Belle and Sebastian actually score negative figures.

So you can keep your limited-edition lime-green late-'80s Sub Pop 7-inches, your mashup comps and your random dilettantism. Me? I'll be listening to Kylie, obsessing over my vintage vinyl collection (all originals, sweetie), knocking back a case of Schaefer (PBR is so two years ago) and sneering at you from the shadows. Because you know what? In a rare moment of blinding clarity, I've realized that I too am like you-but worse, much worse. I'm a self-loathing hipster.

Oh, the horror, the horror.

-Neil Ferguson

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:29 (twenty years ago)

ugh, why spread the filth

Dare (Dare), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

I see Jonathan Valania's cloning experiment is off to a good start.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:33 (twenty years ago)

the great Mojo Nixon

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:47 (twenty years ago)

dare, the world needs to remember this shit is wrong. NEVER FORGET.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:47 (twenty years ago)

ned, that reminds me. this is in the same issue:

http://philadelphiaweekly.com/view.php?id=10913

When the Shit hits the Fans

What it feels like when the band you love hates you.

by Jonathan Valania


We all have bands we hate, really hate-you know, with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. You hate REM, I still hate Journey. There's a lot of that going around. But how many people can say a band hates them? Tin-eared soundmen, people who jack the gear out of their van while they sleep, and the played jokesters who still yell "Freebird!"-and that's about it.

And when you narrow it down to people who are hated by their favorite bands, well, it's a very elite club, my friend. Membership is pretty much down to me and Mark David Chapman, homicidal Beatles superfan. Misery usually loves company but I have no sympathy for my cohort-he killed John Lennon. Screw him.

My crime? Well, I wrote this pretty candid piece about Wilco for Magnet back around the time of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Everything I wrote about-the band members forced to walk the plank, the messy divorce from Reprise and the handshake drugs that were bought downtown, as well as the fact that Wilco had became the Great American Band-eventually became a matter of public record, in the documentary I Am Trying To Break Your Heart and the frank interviews Jeff Tweedy gave in the wake of his rehab stint last year. I contend, your honor, that my only crime was writing an honest story about the band before they were accustomed to people doing so.

Be that as it may, Wilco hates me. I know-boo-hoo, right? Sure, journalism isn't Friendster. It's not my job to be buddies with the people I write about, but it kinda sucks when you happen to admire them.

Last year I wrote a story about the Terror Dentist, aka Anand Rao, a 33-year-old Rittenhouse Square dentist and Wilco super-fan who was visited by the FBI after somebody, possibly a patient, made an anonymous tip. A few weeks before then-Attorney General John Ashcroft held one of his curiously timed be-very-afraid-terrorists-walk-among-us press conferences. One of the cold-blooded killers possibly hiding under your bed or mine was named Adnan. And Rao's first name was Anand. If that wasn't suspicious enough, Anand is of Indian descent and, to a nearsighted or paranoid elderly patient, could pass for an Arab.

The whole thing ended happily, with the FBI agent asking Anand for a dental appointment. In the accompanying photo, Anand posed in his beloved Wilco shirt, purchased off eBay for a princely sum and rumored to have belonged to the drummer.

Somehow Wilco sees the story and links it on their website, for like the whole summer. At one point, their Web master got a hold of me, saying the band wanted to invite Anand to see them perform at Radio City Music Hall. Free tickets, backstage passes, the whole nine yards. We'd become friends by this point, and Anand thought it was only fair that he take me-or maybe I said that, I'm a little fuzzy. I definitely told him he couldn't tell them who he was bringing because it might queer the deal.

So the big night rolls around, we stroll up to the box office at Radio City and ... no tickets. Come back later, they say. The band hasn't turned in the guest list yet. That's odd, I think. It's less than a half-hour to show time. We go out front and a couple people in line recognize Anand. "Aren't you that Terror Dentist guy?"

Anand tells me he feels like a rockstar. With the clock dwindling, we agree to drop a $100 pair of scalper tickets just to be safe. We're not going to come all this way and miss the show. As we head back inside, we check at the ticket booth one last time. No dice. We explain the whole Terror Dentist saga to this sweet old lady usher, she goes backstage, finds Wilco's road manager, explains the deal, comes back with two tickets. Don't worry about the passes, she says. Just go to the backstage door after the show.

Cool, we think. We go inside, watch the show. In a word: transplendent. But you already know that, and if you don't you can check out Kicking Television, the just-out live album recorded over four nights at the Vic Theater in Chicago. How is it? It's fucking great. They're my favorite band. What do you think I'm gonna say?

So after the show we knock on the backstage door. A smiling security guard opens the door and asks us if we're here for the party. Yes, very much so, we say. He looks for our names on the list and when he can't find them he stops smiling and slams the door in our faceS. Just then this guy walks up. British accent. Looks like he's in the Strokes.

"Blimey," he says. "You're that Terror Dentist bloke, ain't ya, mate?"

Again, rockstar moment for Anand. Turns out he's Wilco's road manager and he's gonna get everything sorted. We follow him inside and up the elevator. He tells us he's got to make preparations for the party downstairs, so he's gonna escort us up to the band's dressing room. "Wait till they see you!"

The elevator door opens up, and we're deposited in the tiny hallway outside their dressing room, crowded with the band's inner circle: manager, publicist, a few Nonesuch bigwigs. I turn around and I'm standing face to face with Jeff Tweedy. Last time I talked to him, he asked me to never call him again. Tweedy gives me the hairy eyeball and retreats into the dressing room and slams the door shut. Up walks Wilco's manager, Tony Margherita, who kinda looks like his name sounds.

"I'm gonna take you guys to the party," he says. We get on the elevator and head down, the door opens and we get out, you know, to go to the party. And then we realize we're back at the backstage door and spin around to see the Tony Margherita still in the elevator as the doors close in our face. We've just been kicked to the curb. Anand was pissed. But me, I remember thinking I would die if I could come back new.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:49 (twenty years ago)

why does neil ferguson hate teh twee?

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:50 (twenty years ago)

is he really saying that primal scream are more "elvis" than morrissey?

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:51 (twenty years ago)

if someone could actually point out when sarah records was ever hip i'd love to know

john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:53 (twenty years ago)

also shoegazing: not hip, never hip. hip does not necessarily mean 'things i don't like that others do'

john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

i dont know. the whole article confuses me. this is my response from another board, it sums up my feelings:

dude blows a gasket because someone swiped his favorite barstool at bob and barbara's; pulls classic little man complex move by penning said article. im sure in the back of his mind, he's thinking "yeah, i really got them!" but honestly it reads like a bunch of gobbledygook.

but to get riled up over it? pointless. the few times i've met neil he seems like an alright dude, although i do think he he harbors an unusual fascination with hammell on trial.

people are allowed to make mistakes and get jealous, except that most of the time, they're usually not committed to newsprint -- just anonymous posts on craigslist.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 03:54 (twenty years ago)

i bet his favorite band is the pixies.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

reading that (first) article, I was just thinking about that whole pot-kettle thing

Binjominia (Brilhante), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:02 (twenty years ago)

also, jim's right... if philadelphia is really so full of twee-and-shoegaze loving hipsters that it pisses people off, i'm moving there tomorrow. i could finally be glitterati! the kind that really likes actual glitter!

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:06 (twenty years ago)

Isn't the first one a gag? The hipster protesting he's not a hipster like all the other hipsters until finally forced to admit it at the end? Is he putting down hipsters, or is he putting down the idea of hipsters putting down hipsters? Whatever he's doing, he's not doing it well.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:14 (twenty years ago)

It's both off-mark and extremely tired, but at least the writing is complete shit.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:27 (twenty years ago)

The only people who could possibly feel that upset and put that much effort into hating on hipsters are probably sad that they're too fat to fit into tight Lee jeans and a kid-size tee.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:28 (twenty years ago)

fortunate hazel OTM.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:32 (twenty years ago)

Still, I have to give him credit -- if he wanted to adopt a cultural marker that was in every way devoid of hipster interest, yet at the same time was definitively obscure and surprising, and which was in its own quiet way respectable, he could do little better than to be obsessed with Hammell on Trial.

Guayaquil (eephus), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:40 (twenty years ago)

once people get the word "hipster" in their brains it's like ideological cocaine to them, they start imagining hipster in everything that ever rubs them the wrong way

Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:43 (twenty years ago)

The only people who could possibly feel that upset and put that much effort into hating on hipsters are probably sad that they're too fat to fit into tight Lee jeans and a kid-size tee.

No, it's people who really identified with music and thought it made them cool realizing their era has passed and yet they look at the new era and think, "That's not cool, you little twerp!" And if we're not all familiar with that feeling yet, we will be one day. I thought the reason this was so "tired" is because we've all been there, no? If we've all been there, then what's the harm in one more person "being there" at the moment? The new hipsters are in one spot in life (hating on non-hipsterism) and the old hipsters hating on new hipsters are in another. They both suck, let them be.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:44 (twenty years ago)

Ya fuckin' scenester, Banana. You and your "exclusive" "black" "metal" "gigs."

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

those hipsters in the new romantics sure hated popularity!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:45 (twenty years ago)

once people get the word "hipster" in their brains it's like ideological cocaine to them, they start imagining hipster in everything that ever rubs them the wrong way

No they don't. I think you just wanted to use your fancy new term, "ideological cocaine." It is obvious what is hipsterism and what is not.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:46 (twenty years ago)

soy-latte-drinking No, that'd be your yuppie readership. The New York Times thinks we're the sixth borough-ew! That's, like, so mainstream, I'm outta here"-thinking No one actually thinks that way and a lot of people, hipster and non, think the "6th borough" designation is pretty stupid. Silk City-loving WTF? Who DOESN'T love Silk City?

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:50 (twenty years ago)

what a horrible article

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:51 (twenty years ago)

what is silk city?

john p. irrelevant (electricsound), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

Hurting speaks for all hipsters, for he is one of the most in the know hipsters around. I guess.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:52 (twenty years ago)

Just because a band is on an ultra-obscure indie label doesn't give it instant credibility and/or superior talent.

Gee, never thought about it that way.

I'm rapidly developing irony fatigue.

You too? I'm sensing some sort of a trend here, like an impending "death of irony," if you will.

Personally, I love all of ABBA's greatest hits (including "Voulez Vouz"), but it's a genuine love, born of an affection for huge, irrepressible, shiny, life-affirming pop

Hipsters ain't got no love for ABBA.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 04:54 (twenty years ago)

why don't you non-hipsters get some style already. you look like shit!

Good Dog (Good Dog), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

Silk City is a fantastic diner. If I can't eat huevos rancheros, I don't want any part of your anti-hipster revolution.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:00 (twenty years ago)

you kids with your ripped pants and dirty t-shirts. wear a tie!

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:05 (twenty years ago)

I hate strawmen!

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:13 (twenty years ago)

I was imagining Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man yelling out the first article.. which was at least funny.

I was imaginging a delusional dork reciting the second article, which seemed really tired and boring. Oh wait! Bingo!

iDonut B4 x86 (donut), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:16 (twenty years ago)

SO GLAD TO BE GONE

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 05:40 (twenty years ago)

Anybody who writes detailed articules on "hipsters" is, in my opinion, usually a) a hipster themself b) a former hipster c) someone in very, very close proximity to hipster culture. Most "non-hipsters" would not even use the word hipster to describe the avant-garde and usually don't even give a damn and/or are clueless about what they're doing culturally.

Cunga (Cunga), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 06:02 (twenty years ago)

i particularly like the knuckle duster reference in the last paragraph, hilarious. what a fucking retard.

Blank Realm, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 08:57 (twenty years ago)

'i hate hipsters'=i hate people who i think get sex

terry lennox. (gareth), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 09:23 (twenty years ago)

otm

latebloomer (latebloomer), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 09:30 (twenty years ago)

that explains why i love ilx

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 09:33 (twenty years ago)

the cluelessness of his self-professed hipsterdom is mesmerizing as like a testament to the weirdness of aging. sorta interesting to watch some aspects of cool stop dead in its tracks, and others kinda stagger on. its over him b/c he'll never be completely out of it or irony now. ABBA! Its a personal triumph.

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 09:53 (twenty years ago)

doesn't read well, meant "out of it FOR irony now-ABBA!" god damn. mine is over too.

Susan Douglas (Susan Douglas), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 09:56 (twenty years ago)

Granted, Miles Davis knocked out a few good riffs in his time, and John Coltrane was pretty handy with a sax,

Andy_K (Andy_K), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:14 (twenty years ago)

the dubious joys (albeit in an incredibly patronizing, borderline racist way) of bebop

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:20 (twenty years ago)

Another day, another new British pop sensation mercilessly hyped by the ever salivating build-'em-up, knock-'em-down U.K. press. Will the Kaiser Chiefs change your life? Hardly. But in an (indie) music scene awash with singer/songwriter introspection and lo-fi bearded bores, Employment really is a welcome breath of fresh air. This is Britpop in the best sense-unashamedly, unabashedly British, cocksure and frisky as a rucksack full of puppies. From "I Predict a Riot" to "Every Day I Love You Less and Less," the Kaiser Chiefs offer up a heady mix of suburban ennui, small-town disaffection and bad relationships, tipping a distinct nod in the direction of early XTC and Blur. They have the looks, they've got the tunes and by God, they have huge, shouty choruses. To be fair, this kind of energy level is hard to sustain, and at times it does descend into guitar pop by numbers. And, like Blur, there's the ever-present suspicion of art-school kids slumming it. But what a debut. Smart, snazzy, literate and classy. - Neil Ferguson

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:23 (twenty years ago)

"transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent.transplendent."

fgg, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 10:46 (twenty years ago)

that ferguson quote is the single most paint-by-numbers music review i have ever read.

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:05 (twenty years ago)

I've no idea what goes on in Philadelphia, but I'm warming to this Ferguson guy. His list of heinous hipster genre-crimes is spectacularly OTM.

And **Dr. Martens are a timeless British fashion classic**. Why yes, they are!

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:26 (twenty years ago)

Another day, another new Angolan countrypolitan sensation mercilessly hyped by the ever bifurcating build-'em-up, knock-'em-down U.A.E. press. Will the Kaity Tongs change your life? Hardly. But in an Angolan countrypolitan music scene awash with singer/songwriter exoskeletons and lo-fi bearded clams, Embolism really is a welcome lump of hardened blood. This is Angolan countrypolitan in the best sense-unashamedly, unabashedly rabid, mangy and fleabitten as a rucksack full of puppies.

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:40 (twenty years ago)

I'm not entirely sure he needs to list 'sarah records' after already calling out the entire twee movement.

Googley Asearch (Toaster), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:42 (twenty years ago)

http://www.photokonstantin.com/ktongf.jpg

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:44 (twenty years ago)

My crime? Well, I wrote this pretty candid piece about Wilco for Magnet back around the time of Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Everything I wrote about-the band members forced to walk the plank, the messy divorce from Reprise and the handshake drugs that were bought downtown, as well as the fact that Wilco had became the Great American Band-eventually became a matter of public record, in the documentary I Am Trying To Break Your Heart and the frank interviews Jeff Tweedy gave in the wake of his rehab stint last year. I contend, your honor, that my only crime was writing an honest story about the band before they were accustomed to people doing so.

Be that as it may, Wilco hates me. I know-boo-hoo, right? Sure, journalism isn't Friendster. It's not my job to be buddies with the people I write about, but it kinda sucks when you happen to admire them.

How many more times will whomever's editing (or "editing")the PW allow Valania to write this paragraph? Didn't he just lament the fact that XhukX wouldn't run same article in VV?

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 12:49 (twenty years ago)

**I'm not entirely sure he needs to list 'sarah records' after already calling out the entire twee movement.**

Best to make sure though, eh?

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 13:01 (twenty years ago)

- Va1ania will never be stopped because the upper echelon at PW is just as stoned/clueless/self-involved as he is. that paper mistakes "personality" for journalism on a regular basis.

- If that cover story was supposed to be a satire ("We have seen the enemy and he is us"), it doesn't work.

PeopleFunnyBoy (PeopleFunnyBoy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 13:02 (twenty years ago)

No they don't. I think you just wanted to use your fancy new term, "ideological cocaine." It is obvious what is hipsterism and what is not.

Well, bullshit on the first half - I thought that term up while I was typing the post - and bullshit on the second, too: there's no such thing as a hipster. As a signifier, people use it to assert their own hipness: by using it, they're asserting being in on a joke. It's a defensive move against no threat at all, used by people to indicate their own cultural affiliations. There are no hipsters. Except maybe people who complain about hipsters, who don't usually fit the description of the strawmen they attack.

Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 13:08 (twenty years ago)

I think we should refer to hipsters as "Gelflings" from now on because so many of them have that same horrible "ultra-mullet" like Jen from the Dark Crystal, and it would inject a bit of levity into heavy conversations like these.

"...Gelflings have been responsible for some of the most heinous crimes against music known to man..."

No WAY is Morrissey a Gelfling.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 13:41 (twenty years ago)

He'd be an entertaining Fizzgig, though.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 13:56 (twenty years ago)

I think the next step is that anti-hipster articles are going to become a stand-by at backwater community weeklies, like pieces on blood drives or Christmas pageants; every year the reporters will rack their brains to find a fresh angle on the subject.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 14:41 (twenty years ago)

Philadelphia must be cool; they talked about its coolness on Gilmore Girls last night.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 14:51 (twenty years ago)

i love philly but i hate it when people write things like this. there's a reason why philly will never be truly awesome -- neil's piece and to a lesser extent the new york times piece [written by another PW staffer j3ssic4 pr3$$l3r] reinforce the citys latent ongoing low self esteem issues by consistently insulting.

neil's just right out nasty and i hope the poor people in the vice-styled photo sidebar recognize themselves and sue the philadelphia weekly out of existence. the nyt piece gets it completely wrong by thinking its OK to associate us with new york.

when will people learn that philly is perfectly happy being philly? love us for our fucked-up incongrous nature, the fact that the king of jeans sign on passyunk accidentally depicts a women going down on a man [and its considered a mini landmark], mayors can get away being being raided by the FBI and drop bombs on entire city blocks, the wonder and wtf-ness that is terrell owens, why people park in the middle of the street *only* in south philly and so much more. nothing makes sense here -- thats why people love it.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 14:54 (twenty years ago)

Not to mention that it's cheap to live there, leaving people free to work crap jobs and still be able to spend a lot of time on music, art, or what have you.

Most of my best friends are in Philly, and a lot of them are probably people Ferguson would type as "hipsters." Well, you know what, they're great people, too, so fuck off, you shallow asshole.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:04 (twenty years ago)

neil's just right out nasty and i hope the poor people in the vice-styled photo sidebar recognize themselves and sue the philadelphia weekly out of existence.

this was my feeling about this exactly; the mean-spiritedness of the thing makes me nuts. i don't normally attack other people's writing, but the underlying malice and incredible self-satisfaction in this made my stomach turn. there's a few dumb gestures early on toward satire (PBR, Liquid Liquid), but they seem like they were placed there to give him license to be as nasty as possible for the rest of the piece. it's an endless parade of strawmen.

PeopleFunnyBoy (PeopleFunnyBoy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

I think that first article was satire.

duke of marlboro (mickeygraft), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:07 (twenty years ago)

>the citys latent ongoing low self esteem issues <

I've said it for years (since I lived there): Philadelphia is the Canada of the United States.

And I MISS Silk City, dammit.

xhuxk, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:09 (twenty years ago)

I'm not really convinced it was satire.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:10 (twenty years ago)

There are too many moments when he sounds convinced he's just said something clever and original for this to be satire.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:11 (twenty years ago)

its pretty shitty satire.

and chuck, i love silk city too. but let's not forget the bar area RULES.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:12 (twenty years ago)

>There are too many moments when he sounds convinced he's just said something clever and original for this to be satire.

Maybe he's just way better than you're giving him credit for. Remember the wisdom of Michael O'Donoghue: "Making people laugh is the lowest form of comedy."

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:14 (twenty years ago)

Well, if he's way better than I'm giving him credit for, he's also way worse than you're giving him credit for. If it were good satire it would build as it went on, getting more and more absurd. Instead it just ends on a somewhat bitter wah-wah-wah.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:19 (twenty years ago)

I've never read his writing before, but it kinda reminds me (tone, not subject matter) of the tirades of Lee Ving. "You're a piece of shit, but I am too."

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:22 (twenty years ago)

But he lacks Lee's joie de vivre.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:25 (twenty years ago)

Agreed.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:26 (twenty years ago)

Plus I think you guys are giving the Philly Weekly too much credit, and Maria is probably OTM that it's just another example of petty Philly sniping.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:28 (twenty years ago)

Of course this is satire. Jesus. Hipsters reflexively hate on hipsters, especially younger ones.
This is an amusing, brief toilet read, which is what most alt-weeklies should aspire to— a wan smile while crapping.

js (honestengine), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:44 (twenty years ago)

Aim high.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:45 (twenty years ago)

No, aim at the bowl.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:50 (twenty years ago)

You mean you actually think this is a deadpan send-up of hipster-hatred rather than a half-hearted, somewhat self-mocking example of it? Again, I think you're giving PW too much credit. There are too many moments where the writer seems to think he really has a point.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:51 (twenty years ago)

For example: I blame it all on the likes of Kerouac, Ginsberg and bad old Bill Burroughs, an unholy cabal who back in the '50s not only wrote some of the most overrated, indulgent crap ever laid down on a page, but worse, as self-appointed avatars of cool, helped spoiled white middle-class brats discover the dubious joys (albeit in an incredibly patronizing, borderline racist way) of bebop and, God forbid, free jazz.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:52 (twenty years ago)

That's true though.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:56 (twenty years ago)

Well, that's kind of my point. Whether or not I agree with the statement, it certainly seems like NF does.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:57 (twenty years ago)

Ok, I'm going to settle this:

Subject: Die Hipster, Die
To: nferguson@philadelphiaweekly.com

Dear Neal,

Please settle an argument I'm having with a friend. Is
your piece intended to be a critique (albeit, a
somewhat self-mocking one) of hipsterdom, or a satire
of critiques of hipsterdom?

Thanks,

Josh

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 15:58 (twenty years ago)

Ha, whoops. Spelled his name wrong.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:01 (twenty years ago)

It's getting so I can't kick back with a nice warm PBR and a shot at Bob and Barbara's or rifle through the used vinyl section at AKA Music (damn that elusive white-label Liquid Liquid 12-inch-will it ever be mine?) without some weasely wank whining that, like, Franz Ferdinand are so last year, and sneering at my choice of footwear. (For your information, Mr. Fashion Nazi-Dr. Martens are a timeless British fashion classic.)

I don't get it...isn't looking for Liquid Liquid 12 inches like even more hipster than the hipsters he hates...and he STILL drinks PBR...

I'm confused. I'm a #1 Hipster 4 Life!

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)

You fuckin' poser. How come you don't live in the right hipster pad with the one poster on the wall LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:16 (twenty years ago)


I think those references to PBR and Liquid Liquid were supposed to tip the reader off that this is a "satire", but they were so weak and half-assed, and feel more like an afterthought thrown in to defuse everything else he said in the piece. And if it is a satire, what was his point? That old hipsters hate young hipsters? That we're all hipsters? That "hipster" is a vague and meaningless term? I feel like he wants to have it both ways -- to mock what he perceives as "hipsterism", but also to justify that mockery by couching it as "satire". It's a classic Harmony Korine complex. The Vice ripoff pictures at the end only work to support this.

I've devoted way too much time and attention to this.

PeopleFunnyBoy (PeopleFunnyBoy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:22 (twenty years ago)

The jazz comments are so great because it's obvious he's TRIED to like Miles et al, but not because he was geniunely interested in them but because he wanted to wear his jazz badge as another item to hold over 'the others'. Live by 'music is fashion' and die by it, dickweed.

Keith C (lync0), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:27 (twenty years ago)

As a signifier, people use it to assert their own hipness: by using it, they're asserting being in on a joke. It's a defensive move against no threat at all, used by people to indicate their own cultural affiliations. There are no hipsters. Except maybe people who complain about hipsters, who don't usually fit the description of the strawmen they attack.

Bull-crap. The preppie well-dressed white girl I saw last week wearing a $35 retro faded Metallica Metal Up Your Ass t-shirt appropos of nothing else in her ensemble, other than the fact it was overpriced and trendy, thought she was being pretty hip. Those dorks with the brand new hats with stickers on them think they are being quite hip. Hipness is relative, but that doesn't meant there are no such thing as hipsters.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:29 (twenty years ago)

You fuckin' poser. How come you don't live in the right hipster pad with the one poster on the wall LIKE EVERYONE ELSE?
-- Ned Raggett (ne...), November 9th, 2005. (Ned)

this poster? got it!

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/19/GLA7035.JPG

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:32 (twenty years ago)

YAY THE ONE OF US. Now, your belt buckle.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:33 (twenty years ago)

So much poorly-concealed homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, etc.; this guy is SO angry and SO defensive I feel BAD for him.

"C'mon, Neil, I'll buy you a lemonade."

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:35 (twenty years ago)

So much poorly-concealed homophobia, sexism, racism, classism, etc.; this guy is SO angry and SO defensive I feel BAD for him.

I didn't catch most of those isms. The classism bit I caught: "my version of hipness is much hipper than yours, you little hipsters!"

But, what were the tipoffs to you that he is homophobic, sexist, racist and "etc."?

Agnes "Givin' The Dog A Bone" Moorehead, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:39 (twenty years ago)

Ok, I owe you a PBR.

From NF:

Dear Josh,

Good question...in this case, I'd go for the latter.

Still, it's pretty weak satire, and as said above, I'm not sure what the point of it is.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:42 (twenty years ago)

And now, I too have officially devoted way too much time and thougt to this. Later, thread.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

And now, I too have officially devoted way too much time and thought to this. Later, thread.

Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)


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:-), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:45 (twenty years ago)

These two quotes go very well together:

"Hipster: twenty-something stroketard whose style of clothing conflicts with their demeanor, thus resulting in a spicy pseudointellectual with more flavor-of-the-month conversations than a Long Island prostitute."

-Urban Dictionary

The preppie well-dressed white girl I saw last week wearing a $35 retro faded Metallica Metal Up Your Ass t-shirt appropos of nothing else in her ensemble, other than the fact it was overpriced and trendy, thought she was being pretty hip. Those dorks with the brand new hats with stickers on them think they are being quite hip. Hipness is relative, but that doesn't meant there are no such thing as hipsters.

-- I AM OTM (ot...), November 9th, 2005.

SO OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

o no

ascii best win, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:46 (twenty years ago)

Bull-crap. The preppie well-dressed white girl I saw last week wearing a $35 retro faded Metallica Metal Up Your Ass t-shirt appropos of nothing else in her ensemble, other than the fact it was overpriced and trendy, thought she was being pretty hip.

Perhaps, but her self-conceived hipness doesn't aspire as high as that of the person calling it out: the only hipsters are the ones who complain about the phenomenon

Banana Nutrament (ghostface), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:53 (twenty years ago)

Perhaps, but her self-conceived hipness doesn't aspire as high as that of the person calling it out: the only hipsters are the ones who complain about the phenomenon

People call other people "hipsters" the same way they call people "assholes." Hipsters don't classify themselves as such, that's far too egotistical and embarrassing. "Psssh! I don't try to be hip! I just am!" That's why hipsters are generally two-faced phonies going through an extended personality crisis. Then the become aged hipsters pissed off that they are no longer hip and finally get to come out with it and honestly reveal themselves as the better-than-thou assholes they are, like the above author, or they can try to pseudointellictualize the whole thing away and pretend it doesn't exist.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 16:58 (twenty years ago)

X-post:

I meant to say, "I detect a lot of poorly-concealed etc." I could be way off, but it seems like there's an implication there that good music needs to have "sex, swagger and style" and must have a high "Elvis rating," Belle and Sebastian having less than none and therefore being totally unworthy of consideration. You get the feeling this guy really, really wishes he could have been present for Disco Demolition Night.

owen moorhead (i heart daniel miller), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:01 (twenty years ago)

C'mon. Making fun of hipsters is fun. And yes, there are plenty of people out there aspiring to be hip. Don't let Banana Nutrament's smug contrary banter dissuade you from this fact.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:03 (twenty years ago)

People call other people "hipsters" the same way they call people "assholes." Hipsters don't classify themselves as such, that's far too egotistical and embarrassing. "Psssh! I don't try to be hip! I just am!" That's why hipsters are generally two-faced phonies going through an extended personality crisis. Then the become aged hipsters pissed off that they are no longer hip and finally get to come out with it and honestly reveal themselves as the better-than-thou assholes they are, like the above author, or they can try to pseudointellictualize the whole thing away and pretend it doesn't exist.

This is what Va1an1a's article does mimetically!

blackmail.is.my.life (blackmail.is.my.life), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:09 (twenty years ago)

C'mon. Making fun of hipsters is fun. And yes, there are plenty of people out there aspiring to be hip. Don't let Banana Nutrament's smug contrary banter dissuade you from this fact.

Oh, I won't. Especially since both this concession and contradition in such a small amount of words: Perhaps, but her self-conceived hipness doesn't aspire as high as that of the person calling it out: the only hipsters are the ones who complain about the phenomenon .

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:11 (twenty years ago)

Wait, I'm confused. Am I supposed to hate hipsters or the people who hate hipsters or the people who write about hating hipsters or people who use the word hipster when really they mean trendy or just everyone? Fuck hip. And fuck anti-hip.

AgeD White Dude (dave225.3), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:12 (twenty years ago)

I am pretty.

Good Dog (Good Dog), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:13 (twenty years ago)

OTM AWD. Lock thread.

Brooker Buckingham (Brooker B), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:14 (twenty years ago)

Wait, I'm confused. Am I supposed to hate hipsters or the people who hate hipsters or the people who write about hating hipsters or people who use the word hipster when really they mean trendy or just everyone? Fuck hip. And fuck anti-hip.

Hate all of the above, if it makes you happy. Don't forget to hate the people who hate people who hate on hipsters or write about hating on hipsters. But mostly, hate yourself for not realizing the overlap that exists with "trendy" and "hipster."

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:15 (twenty years ago)

Damn , now I'm confused AND self-loathing. Fuck me.

AgeD White Dude (dave225.3), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

Damn , now I'm confused AND self-loathing. Fuck me.

I will, but first take off those non-trendy, unhip Doc Marten's.

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:16 (twenty years ago)

from a discussion about the article elsewhere on the internet:

person #1: Much like the sixth borough article, the purpose of this article was to be coy, to be half-ironic, to be offensive, to perplex the reader, and to get people arguing with one another about whether or not the article was accurate/good.

In this respect the article was successful.

yours truly: so thats the point of journalism these days -- to write pieces to make people question whether the article was good or not, rather than the actual issue at hand?

person #1: Well, that's the point of the NYT Style Section and most alternative weeklies. Anyone who looks to those pubs for an intelligent discussion of any issues at hand is always going to be disappointed.

person #2: yeah, the point of most alt weeklies is to make money from the sex ads, but that doesn't mean you have to accept the frightening mediocrity and out-of-touch-ness of PW and CP (all the more frightening as the long-useless Inky and DN sit prone and powerless beneath the pendulum), or the blind eye they turn towards actual issues affecting our city, or the constant focus on white people, usually young, usually involved in the cultural life of the city, and usually, by the definitions put forth in this article, hipsters. so it's completely circular. the weekly is by, for and about probably one of the smallest subsets of philadelphia, and one of the most irrelevant too. hooray. thank god i never have to read about poverty, racism, crime, corruption, the crippling septa strike, our crooked mayor, how dirty this city is, why cabs are such a ripoff, why train service can't be better, the chinatown bus, etc. etc. i can just sit back, relax and submit to complete and utter narcissism week after week.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 17:41 (twenty years ago)

yr the type of guy that disses hipsters....i'm the type of guy that says the puddin' is delicious!

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 18:56 (twenty years ago)

xpost: I feel like he wants to have it both ways -- to mock what he perceives as "hipsterism", but also to justify that mockery by couching it as "satire".

Hi, I'm Schlegel's theory of poetic irony.

Sorry, I just lost the thread by referencing undergrad philosophy in reference to hipsters, didn't I?

js (honestengine), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 19:09 (twenty years ago)

Hey! It is delicious!

martin m. (mushrush), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 19:18 (twenty years ago)

Both of these articles are really among the most annoying things I've ever seen in an alt-weekly, which is saying something. Is the PW always like that?

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 19:21 (twenty years ago)

gypsy mothra, yes. every good writer PW ever had has jumped ship for the city paper or elsewhere. i feel kind of bad for them... sometimes.

maria tessa sciarrino (theoreticalgirl), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 19:32 (twenty years ago)

amazing how a thread about Valania et al would turn into sad and pathetic, no?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:21 (twenty years ago)

haha "into sad and pathetic," you can remove the "into" there, thx

(this is directed not one iota to Maria, obv.)

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:22 (twenty years ago)

I'm surprised there was so much debate and doubt about the fact that it was supposed to be winking satire. Unnecessarily and poorly executed thought it may be, the intent seems pretty obvious once you actually read the whole thing.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:24 (twenty years ago)

PW's music guys seem to have a lock on doing winking satire terribly, terribly badly, don't they?

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:25 (twenty years ago)

Not winking so much as maybe he has something in his eye, a little mascara or something.

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:26 (twenty years ago)

I don't know, the last couple sentences seemed like a rather big, overdone stage-wink.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:30 (twenty years ago)

But yeah, that old cynical loser really has a case of narcissism of minor differences. I'm glad we're all so much better than him here. (WINK WINK)

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:31 (twenty years ago)

It's clearly satire, but the laziest kind--the kind that won't cop to a point of view and thus can't be cogently argued with because it itself isn't cogent. It's also not very funny, so boo on all counts.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:36 (twenty years ago)

Al, name one worse music writer in the U.S. than Valania.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:37 (twenty years ago)

It's as if the guy doesn't really care because he doesn't get paid that much and doesn't take his throwaway paper fodder as seriously as you all do. Hmmm.

Peninsula Morte, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:38 (twenty years ago)

Nobody's paying me to speak English on a day-to-day basis outside the office but I still try to do it cogently.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:40 (twenty years ago)

But thanks for rearing the tired old "haw haw what a bunch of losers who hang out on message boards and take music writing seriously" nonargument again, creep.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

xpost

Yeah, because lazy writing is a positive trait.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:42 (twenty years ago)

Dear Editor,

I'm far from what you would call a "hipster" but that doesn't mean I have to sit quietly when someone prints a bunch of hate literature and serves it up as social commentary. What we've got here is the pot calling the kettle black and a ridiculous straw man argument. Not only is it trite and boring, it is tired, juvenile and downright offensive to your readership [and blah blah blah self-righteous sanctimonious up on our high horse crap, etc. you get the idea.]

Signed,
ILM

I AM OTM, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:44 (twenty years ago)

But thanks for rearing the tired old "haw haw what a bunch of losers who hang out on message boards and take music writing seriously" nonargument again, creep.

No problem, Wally.

The Beaver and Junk, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:45 (twenty years ago)

whoa! I got served!

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:49 (twenty years ago)

i think i might idly start fucking with posts on this thread from here on out

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

just for kicks

strongo hulkington's ghost (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:51 (twenty years ago)

DO IT

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:52 (twenty years ago)

Actually, we should all write half-sarcastic half-sincere letters to the editor talking about how we were reading the article on our internet message board while drinking Schlitz and listening to Messien and liked the parts that were serious but were annoyed by the parts that weren't serious and as such are canceling our subscriptions to the East Bay Express effective immediately.

Eppy (Eppy), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:53 (twenty years ago)

"The return of the Aging White Duke, throwing darts in popists' eyes...."

http://hem.bredband.net/connyandersson/davidthin.JPG

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:56 (twenty years ago)

thank you for getting a GREAT riff stuck in my head, Alfred, I feel loads better now

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 21:57 (twenty years ago)

WALLY roffle

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:00 (twenty years ago)

I don't remember Wally being fat.

ghjgjhg, Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:25 (twenty years ago)

Alfred made the musical joke I dared not make (but I was thinking it the whole time).

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:27 (twenty years ago)

http://www.paistortuga.net/asnarin/famosillo/con_01_039%20-%20wally.jpg

gear (gear), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:30 (twenty years ago)

i was all set to make the aging white duke joke too. thank you for relieving me of that.

america's next top ramen (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:31 (twenty years ago)

guess even with the septa thing it was a slow news week in philly.

hstencil (hstencil), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:37 (twenty years ago)

LOCK THREAD

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:41 (twenty years ago)

muppets>hipsters

kephm (kephm), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 22:44 (twenty years ago)

Al, name one worse music writer in the U.S. than Valania.

-- Matos-Webster Dictionary (michaelangelomato...), November 9th, 2005.

Let's see, 1) all of my posts in this thread (all three of them!) were clearly about the Ferguson article, not the Valania one, 2) I was hardly defending either guy, 3) I'd never even heard of Valania before opening this thread, nor do I have much prior experience with PW and 4) I'm SURE there are plenty of worst music writers, but that's neither here nor there.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

(oops, worst = worse)

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:25 (twenty years ago)

I'm SURE there are plenty of worst music writers, but that's neither here nor there.

haha you had me till this

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:30 (twenty years ago)

(Franz Ferdinand excepted, of course).

Special Agent Dale Koopa (orion), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:31 (twenty years ago)

add some modifiers there (like PAID or WIDELY READ) and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, otherwise see one blogosphere

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:33 (twenty years ago)

haha I have! but point(s) taken.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Wednesday, 9 November 2005 23:50 (twenty years ago)

I'm waiting for someone to post another amusing photo; otherwise this thread will keep devolving.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 10 November 2005 00:05 (twenty years ago)

jim knipfel used to write this kinda thing all the time in the weekly column he had in philly. before he moved to new york. he hated hipsters too. but he was sadder. and he actually did skulk down the streets in a fedora and trenchcoat all the time, thus making him really unhip. plus, when he lived and wrote in philly it was some sorta crazy fucking hell on earth. which changed the tone some. plus, he could actually be funny. and he could write. i wonder if jess on the gilmore girls was inspired by any of his books?

i miss the pancakes at silk city!

and bob & barbaras was taken over by hipsters, like, a zillion gazillion years ago.

i remember, years ago, when me & my friends lamented the influx of college kidz at our dank and dear doobies. not hip college kids. just dorky Upenn kids.

scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 10 November 2005 00:25 (twenty years ago)

It's clearly satire, but the laziest kind--the kind that won't cop to a point of view

Wait, so it's not satire then.

Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 10 November 2005 03:44 (twenty years ago)

I've only gone to Bob & Barbara's for Dumpsta Players shows. For some reason I thought there was one tonight (it's next week) and the people I saw going into B&B's were not hipsters.

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 10 November 2005 03:56 (twenty years ago)

I don't know why hipsters bother people, really. Loud people bother me, too much background noise, but if they're talking at reasonable levels I don't care if they're saying Franz Ferdinand was so a year ago.

'Twan (miccio), Thursday, 10 November 2005 03:58 (twenty years ago)

seven years pass...

Ha ha ha, wowwwww remember the time?

how's life, Wednesday, 28 August 2013 10:22 (twelve years ago)


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