Charles Mingus

Mingus - too much to go into here, but read Brian Priestley's "Mingus" biog for the musical history and his autobiog "Beneath the Underdog" to understand the meaning(s) behind his music.

The strongest bridge between bebop/third stream/free. Nearly everything he did is vital listening, but particularly the following:-

Pithecanthropus Erectus (Atlantic, 1956); East Coasting (Bethlehem, 1957); Tijuana Moods (RCA, 1958); The Clown (Atlantic, 1958); Mingus Ah Um and Mingus Dynasty (Columbia, both 1959); Mingus Presents Mingus and MDM (Candid, both 1960); Mingus At Antibes (Atlantic, recorded 1961, issued 1979); Blues and Roots (Atlantic, 1961); Mingus Oh Yeah (Atlantic, 1961); The Complete Town Hall Concert (Blue Note 2CD set, 1995; flawed but still worth listening to); Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (Impulse, 1963 - MASTERPIECE, GET THIS IF NOTHING ELSE); Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (Impulse, 1963); Mingus At Monterey (Milestone, 1964); The Complete Jazz Workshop Recordings (bootleg, 1965; hard to find but worth it, containing a lot of the raw material for LMCHM); LMCHM itself of course (Columbia, 1972); Changes One and Two (Atlantic, 1973); and Cumbia and Jazz Fusion (Atlantic, 1978). I've missed out loads of stuff, obviously, including live ones; the whole 1964 European tour with Dolphy seems to have been recorded, for a start).

Some faves: - 'Pithecanthropus Erectus', one of the earliest 'concept' albs (see also 'The Clown'), w/ some great fierce post-bop playing from Jackie Maclean, esp.

- 'Blues and Roots' may be his most 'easy-to-get-into' rec - you'll prob. recognise some of the tunes. Mingus 'does' gospel, and everyone shouts, hollers and gets sanctified.

- 'Ah Um' - Just a classic straight-ahead jazz alb, featuring a typically tight 'core' group (John Handy, Booker Ervin, Shafi Hadi, Jimmy Knepper, Horace Parlan, Dannie Richmond etc.)'Self Portrait In Three Colors' might just be his single most beautiful composition (see also Sonny Sharrock's 'answer' song on 'Black Woman - 'Portrait of Linda in Three Colors, All Black'!)

- 'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' - Marcello is, of course, OTM abt this one. As a further incentive, it has great sleeves notes by CM's psychiatrist!

- 'Tijuana Moods' is one of his most underrated albs, and has recently been reissued in a 'definitive' edition.

- 'Oh Yeah' is a weird one - Mingus only plays piano on it, and sings! Its got 'Oh Lord Don't Let Them Drop That Atomic Bomb On Me', which is always worth hearing.

See also: 'Beneath The Underdog', his heavily fictionalised autobiog which gives you some sense of the man, and even the Hal Willner 'tribute' alb 'Weird Nightmare' (its got a great pic on the front cover if nothing else!)

-

I'd start with "Blues and Roots" for the earthier side of Mingus and "Mingus Ah Um" for the more "mainstream" Mingus. Anyone with even a casual interest in jazz should hear "The Black Saint" a few times, though to be honest I don't play it too much nowadays. "Pithecanthropus Erectus" is a good mixture of the experimental with the churchy/bluesy.

Mingus's widow, Sue, maintains a big band ("The Mingus Big Band") to play his music. The personnel changes often the players are world- class, and big names like the Brecker Brothers have come through its ranks. I feel you get closer to the spirit of Mingus listening to these guys than you do listening to records. I've heard them a few times and they generally blow me away, though they were a bit weaker on a regular NY gig than they seem to be on tour.

Incidentally I don't think Joni's album is quite as bad as is generally made out - "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey" is better than most of her post-Hejira stuff, for example.

The Mingus Big Band I've seen a couple of times - efficient but never quite inspirational. Problem is CM's music needs the wild cards it was largely written for - and as nearly all of them are now gone (Dolphy, Kirk, Richmond, Ervin, Byard, Adams, Pullen) it becomes a bit more difficult, unless you draft in, I dunno, people like Ware or Murray, or even Zorn, into the band to shake things up a bit.

Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus: When people ask me for beginner jazz recommendations this one is usually in the first five. It's got great versions of a bunch of his classic tunes (albeit under different names), really high energy and accessible for the most part.

Mingus in Antibes: Probably the most smoking Mingus live stuff I've heard, and it's got the Eric Dolphy/Booker Ervin frontline (both of whose records are worth checking out).

Anyone else going?

http://www.mingusmingusmingus.com/orchestra/orchestra.html

My, my, my I just picked up "The Greatest Concert of Charles Mingus" 3LP (this one: http://www.discogs.com/Charles-Mingus-The-Great-Concert-Of-Charles-Mingus/release/2223061) yesterday and it is great. One those, "well this looks good enough for $7" purchases that reminds me why I continue to love discovering music and which continues my belief that the jazz well of greatness is bottomless.

Let Mingus toilet train your cats

This looks kinda neato -
Mingus' Magnum Opus: 'Epitaph' In Concert
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92884124

90th birthday today. WKCR playing a special program, right now the Wupertal show from 1964 is on, very skronky.

Those 1964 shows define unfuckwithable.

Cool thx, listening now

oof i know what i want for xmas. out in september.

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/images/sessions/253.jpg
Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65
We are pleased to announce "Charles Mingus - The Jazz Workshop Concerts 1964-65 (Town Hall, Amsterdam, Monterey & Minneapolis)." It chronicles the essential live performances of this genius of modern music as his compositions achieved a depth and complexity we would come to know as Mingus's most signature work. It includes (on the earlier recordings) the brilliant Eric Dolphy, along with Jaki Byard, Dannie Richmond, Johnny Coles, and Clifford Jordan -- certainly one of the best assemblages of musicians ever.

And the music, recorded across the world's concert stages, dashes once and for all every previously-held notion about what is, and isn't, jazz.

Never Before Available

What makes this collection even more appealing is the fact that, of the six discs in the collection, only one of them has ever been available on an authorized CD. Almost another full CD has never been available on CD at all. And a disc and a half worth of music include new discoveries - appearing for the first time ever, in any form.

wooooooo hyperbole

And the music, recorded across the world's concert stages, dashes once and for all every previously-held notion about what is, and isn't, jazz.

this sounds good, though, i guess, maybe one day i will be able to find a copy i can afford

Curious how they picked the material for this; it would seem to make more sense to do a Complete 1964 European Tour box, but wow, had no idea there was unreleased Town Hall stuff!

here's some info
Three of the tunes from the April 4, 1964 performance at Town Hall in New York have never been available before. The lineup of Dolphy, Jordan, Coles, Byard, and Richmond also performed in Amsterdam on April 10. The Monterey show in September features Hillyer, McPherson, Byard, and Richmond , expanded by six pieces for "Meditations" including John Handy Red Callendar, Buddy Collete and Jack Nimitz. In May of 1965, in Minneapolis, he was back to the five-piece Monterey lineup. That last date includes a great rarity, never before on record - "Copa City Titty (aka O.P.)," recorded only once before on an obscure Japanese big band record.

i do kinda wish that this was cheaper -- not mosaic's thing, i know. but it was awesome that the recent miles 67 set was so budget-priced.

http://mingusmingusmingus.com/Mingus/blindfold.html

love the idea of those blindfold tests

That long Ornette quote is amazing. Thanks for the link!

i swear every liner note i ever read of his, he says 'pedal point' in

he's a bass player. He can't help it.

http://www.npr.org/2012/10/21/163255582/first-listen-charles-mingus-the-jazz-workshop-concerts-1964-65?sc=tw&cc=share

thanks!

90 seconds in and this is already making my Monday better.

yeah, sounds great.

wonderful. Copa City Titty is great. I could listen to Jaki Byard all day.

yeah, as incredible as the band from this era is, i think byard is secretly the most incredible.

ha ha! "RCA Victor are the only label that pay roayalties properly, cause they make so much money from the atomic bomb, they don't have to worry about cheating jazz musicians"

i want to have 4 kids just so i can name them jaki, dannie, eric and charles

'I am selling my own records from now on... through the mail'

i recently read the mingus bio myself when i am real -- he was a weird dude!

"Copa City Titty"!

".....nothin to do with mammaries..."

Many thanks for the heads up on this set

listening to mingus in this era i always think i'd be ok if that was all i was allowed to listen to for the rest of my days. endlessly wonderful/exciting/crazy music.

I just installed the NPR Music iPhone app to listen to this -- sounds great.

Thanks for posting that link, tylerw. Can't wait for this set. Hey, have you heard Byard's The Jaki Byard Experience? Byard, Kirk, Richard Davis, Alan Dawson. Unbelievable record.

Great review in latest issue of The Wire - sounds like the first four (Dolphy-assisted) discs are pretty essential

How long do these 'first listen' things stay up? I have to work today and don't have the internet at work! Really wanna hear this...

They usually stay up at least for a week

might as well post this here
iTunes Mingus bargains (Europe, at least)
3 in 1 for €4.99, a collection containing Mingus Ah Um, Lionel's Sessions, Pithecanthropus Erectus and The Clown. Yep, that's four!
Mingus at Carnegie Hall for €1.99

Mingus at Carnegie Hall is a sadly overlooked record. Roland Kirk is on fire.

that's the one w/ just two tracks right? and kirk hits that insane note and just holds it for eternity or something?

yep. Wish there was more from those sessions - apparently it barely scratch the surface of what they were like.

yeah reading that bio reminded me i need to hear more of his 70s stuff.

Carnegie is two tracks. Just about to play them on my way home from work :)
AMG says that release misses the opening set and the "freer finale"

Listening to this now, and yes, it's as overwhelmingly brilliant as you'd expect.

My dad saw Mingus -- the group with Dolphy, Byard, Coles, Jordan et al -- in January, 1964 at the Five Spot, two nights running. When I asked him what it was like, he paused, stared off into the distance, and said, "It was one of the greatest experiences of my life."

I wish I too had been there to see the godfather of the upright bass.

It's not just a ruckus jubilation.

The Shoes of the Fisherman's Wife Are Some Jibeass Slippers

sorry to hear of ted curson's recent passing - the fake 'live' alb he's on w/ dolphy is prob my fave mingus rec

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/205629_601371096556572_400376268_n.jpg
salvador shared this over on facebook, pretty rad.

hahaha, even juke box operators hate him!

On one of the sets on the new Mosaic box (think it's My Favorite Quintet) he asks the audience not to buy his Columbia or Impulse records, but RCA is ok: "They must make enough from the atomic bomb to pay their musicians."

Charles Morbsus

lol, the precursor to the "language professors HATE him!" ads

Why did juke box operators hate him, because of the lengthy songs?

He decked one for playing one of his singles at the wrong speed

The Shoes of the Fisherman's Wife Are Some Jiveass Slippers

where have I heard the opening bar of Moanin' from Blues and Roots? It sounds so familiar, but whosampled only mentions a French hiphop song I'm not that familiar with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY&feature=kp

I remember reading about this in 1989-1990, when it was in the pre-planning stages. Had no idea it actually happened -- apparently it was shown on the BBC in 1993, and released on laserdisc.

Directed by Ray Davies!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPNhnIwT920

Ha, whoops, no, let's try that again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8b6KdnnM8Y

Reading the newish Mingus Speaks book of interviews and am reminded I enjoy Mingus more as a personality than as a composer. He's never moved me, except as a bassist in small groups. His ambitions were certainly noble, I just find his chamber jazz / big band music ponderous and dull. I'm probably the only one, though, judging by previous conversations with a wide range of music fans (including my wife, who loves Mingus to death).

you must fundamentally misunderstand something about listening to music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqZk8KP6xjo

Does anyone know what song sampled that opening piano riff from "Trio and Group Dancers"? I want to say that it's a trip hop song.

And pretty sure that it features a female vocalist.

I can't believe how long I've slept on Charles Mingus. It's embarrassing, but what a treasure for someone who has been starved for something new.
orchestral and cinematic, but it also swings and is full of soul. The last six months or so I been listening to these as much as possible:

Pithecanthropus Erectus (1956, Atlantic)
The Clown (1957, Atlantic)
Tijuana Moods (RCA, 1957 [1962])
Blues & Roots (1959, Atlantic)
Mingus Ah Um (1959, Columbia)
Mingus Dynasty (1959, Columbia)
Mingus at Antibes (1960, Atlantic)
Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus (1960, Candid)
Mingus! (1960, Candid)
Oh Yeah (1961, Atlantic)
The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady (1963, Impulse!)
Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus (1963, Impulse!; sometimes referred to as Five Mingus)
Charles Mingus Sextet with Eric Dolphy Cornell 1964 (Blue Note, 1964 [2007])
Let My Children Hear Music (Columbia, 1972)

Charles Mingus had so many different types of tunes. The guy liked to play raw bluesy stuff trying to get some type of constant gospel call and response improvisation between the horns and piano. Then Mingus dares these European classical music pieces or orchestrated big band pieces, dense pieces of harmony. Mingus also came out of be-bop, so he's got that down too. Charles Mingus was a musician at another level and his recorded output is pretty staggering. I got to figure anything he ever did is worth listening to at least once.

Yesterday my daughter insisted on turning up mingus ah um. That was unexpected.

Be sure to check out Jazz Portrait: Mingus in Wonderland. John Handy and Booker Ervin!

My dad saw Mingus two nights running at the Five Spot in late 1963 -- same lineup (Dolphy, Jordan, Richmond, Byard, Coles) as the 1964 Town Hall/European dates. When I asked him what it was like, he paused, stared off into the distance and said quietly, "It was one of the greatest experiences of my life."

that's beautiful

That run from 1956 up to Eric Dolphy's death in 1964 is just a ton of good records. Blues and Roots and The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady are probably my favorites, but all of them are good.

My dad saw Mingus two nights running at the Five Spot in late 1963
it is crazy -- i've talked to someone who saw a bunch of NYC jazz in the late 50s/early 60s and it's like these titans of 20th century american music playing tiny clubs. and he says the clubs were rarely very crowded! just mind boggling.

i mean, the same is true today.

I'm actually feeling really optimistic lately, because I'm going to (and hearing reports of) jazz shows that are packed - I went to the Village Vanguard the other week to see drummer Rudy Royston's sextet and almost didn't get in! And I heard that Darius Jones did a show at the Jazz Gallery last week that was basically sold out, too. And I'm expecting a full house when I go see Kamasi Washington tonight. I've been to enough jazz shows with maybe two dozen people in the audience - including shows by artists that get tons of press, like Rob Mazurek - that this feels like a genuine shift. We'll see how long it lasts.

Until summer vacation is over for the foreign tourists?

Is it possibly a post-Whiplash thing?

Well, last night it was definitely the result of Washington's album getting reviewed in places like Pitchfork and Spin and Rolling Stone that normally don't give a wet fart about jazz. The crowd was very young. The three strangers seated at my table were two tech bros, one of whom was ridiculing the other for having missed the most recent Purity Ring show, and a girl who worked in marketing or something - she kept talking about how some other girl was shit talking her to her team. All three agreed that this show would have been better at Le Poisson Rouge.

Anyway, the show itself was great. Thundercat guested on bass, and they also brought up an alto saxophonist and a trumpeter on different songs (the core band was Washington, a trombonist, a female vocalist, a pianist, an upright bassist, and two drummers). I bought a T-shirt.

Oddly I woke up with "Weird Nightmare" in my head this morning

I love those old jazz anecdotes! Like the Pepper Adams/Mingus one: Adams shows up at Mingus' apartment for a rehearsal, and Mingus is on the phone with someone at the Musicians Union, yelling and cursing "You white motherfucker! Someday I'm gonna get a machine gun and kill all you white motherfuckers!" Then he interrupts himself, turns to Adams and says "Cold beer in the fridge, Pepper" as courteous as can be, before continuing his tirade.
― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:14 (8 years ago) Bookmark

The BBC prom for Charles Mingus is really good damn fun, with some fine playing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b092nc5j

it is still not available, but I'll deffo check that out later or tomorrow.

Slightly offtopic, but I was listening to a 10 year old Coltrane death anniversary broadcast from the R3 archives earlier. The Liebman/Lovano one that has recently been released. That one is really good as well.

There is a Mingus solo piano album that exists that is very nice

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingus_Plays_Piano

This BBC Proms Mingus thing on telly is amazing rn

https://www.forcedexposure.com/App_Themes/Default/Images/product_images/product_page/F/FOX036LP_PROD.jpg

In November 1958, John Cassavetes premiered
his revolutionary independent film Shadows in a
series of midnight screenings at the Paris Theater
in New York City. Village Voice critic Jonas Mekas
immediately proclaimed it a work of genius, calling
it “the most frontier-breaking American feature in at
least a decade.” Most audience members, including
Cassavetes, hated it.Cassavetes reassembled his cast
and crew and shot extensive new footage, modifying
old scenes and adding new ones. The final version
premiered at Amos Vogel’s legendary Cinema 16 on
November 11, 1959, and was an overnight critical
sensation.One of the myths that propelled Shadows to
instant notoriety was its improvisational origins.
It’s considered by many to be the first “true”
cinematic jazz narrative, both for its racially
charged subject and its unconventional, unscripted
making in the streets of Manhattan.4 It’s been
further celebrated for an original score by one
of the all-time jazz greats, Charles Mingus.
However much of the legend is deceptive. Little of
Mingus’s music appears in the final film.

https://journals.equinoxpub.com/index.php/JFM/article/view/8158

For the first time on vinyl, Charles Mingus's great score for the legendary 1959 directorial debut of John Cassavetes, Shadows. Much has been said about the controversial relationship between these two masters. "The score encapsulates Cassavetes's and Mingus's unique approaches to both improvisation and composition in their respective media, illuminating the oppositional nature of jazz to mainstream cultural production and the underbelly of race relations in 1950's America" --Ross Lipman

https://www.forcedexposure.com/Catalog/mingus-charles-john-cassavetes-shadows-lp/FOX.036LP.html

^ has anybody heard this ?

is it different than this:

https://www.discogs.com/Charles-Mingus-Shadows/master/1116572

?

the new Deluxe Edition of Mingus at Carnegie Hall adds a fantastic 72-minute first set ... better get it in your soul

Ts: get it vs get hit

The original single LP version of Mingus At Carnegie Hall was always one of my least favorite Mingus records, just two side-long saxophone contests (versions of the Ellington tunes "Perdido" and "C Jam Blues" with John Handy, George Lewis, Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Hamiet Bluiett, and Charles McPherson taking turns trying to out-blow each other). But the rest of the concert is killer, the core band — Lewis, Bluiett, Jon Faddis on trumpet, Don Pullen on piano, and Dannie Richmond on drums — playing Mingus's own music (plus Pullen's "Big Alice"). Now it's a must-hear album, IMO.

The hype sticker on the CD is hilarious:

WRAP YOUR MIND AROUND THE TRUE POWER OF JAZZ’S IMPROVISATIONAL ABILITIES WITH THIS MIND-BENDING PERFORMANCE

Lol

Happy Mingus Centennial!
https://www.cc-seas.columbia.edu/wkcr/story/charles-mingus-centennial-broadcast
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/21/arts/music/charles-mingus-centennial.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch71BX1PskQ

marcello c shared this '64 rehearsal vid earlier, the footage is in such good nick it looked like it could have been filmed yesterday. And quite sadly Dolphy looks in such good health, it's hard to believe he's nearly gone:(

Jaki Byard was another sad futile death, albeit much later as well, shot dead in his apartment. Great pianist.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2KDM6TA6ow

I've been on a big Mingus listening spree the last couple of weeks. It got me thinking about what happened with him and Jimmy Knepper and I was curious about the circumstances of Knepper working with Mingus some late in life.

I did not quite find an exact answer, but I did find this interesting article I thought was a good and worthwhile read.

http://americanaejournal.hu/vol10jazz/gabbard

I had forgotten how Charles Mingus and Friends in Concert contains a LOT of Bill Cosby interludes. Or maybe it sunk more in the background back then. Still, "Ecclusiastics"