A Rap-Disliking Douchebag

But if anything hindered my attempts to bring rap into the fold this year, then it was Spoon. They nailed it.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26665884

But this "everyone's a music writer" shit makes "everyone's a DJ" seem like a swell idea.

But this guy blows.

PLEASE SIR, MAKE THE LAUGHING STOP

Yeugh -- picking apart C- blog writing at 2am on a work night is really scraping the bottom.

I was reviewing some literature for work a few minutes ago and I needed to vent :)

But this "everyone's a music writer" shit makes "everyone's a DJ" seem like a swell idea.

-- Whiney G. Weingarten (christopher...), December 27th, 2005.

LOL, OTM, etc.

Dr. Frankenstein- we've found the monster.

Etc.

50 Cent should die, though. Right now. Please.

(This not being a comment on hip-hop in a larger sense- I'm just talking about 50 Cent.)

I think the weird thing is why he seems bothered. You don't like rap? Why should you? You don't have to like everything. I .m not keen on operetta. Having said that the Dangerdoom album is one of my favourites of the year. I wonder if he heard that?

I'm always baffled by the blogs/sites that rise to the top.

The music sites and blogs that people talk about the most (esp. on ilx) don't have the best writing or best opinions.

They either:
a) Have been around the longest
b) Are run by people who have the time/initiative to update them every day.

As bad as you think Rolling Stone and Spin are, at least they have some of the best music writers on the planet. They don't pick their staff by who can write the most reviews in a day.

I've heard people talk about CokeMachineGlow. And the writing on there is sub-zine. Why aren't people talking about Keith Hariss's blog? Or MelissaMaerz? Or [insert any other quality magazine writer with, cleary, better things to do than write for free all day]?

ROFFLE

The question isn't "Why are his opinions bad?" It's "Why are his opinions suddenly valid?"

~C

You seriously expect The WU to compare to The BLOC? Why even compare?

It certainly proves that internet access doesn't automatically broaden young peoples horizons after all :/

2005: The Year I Didn't Discover There Are More Genres In Existence Apart From The Rap/Rock/Dance Axis Than Time To Even Be Able To Listen To Them All.

[write some bullshit in this space later about the advantages of not ever looking beyond your nose, bookmarked weblogs or immediate class/race/cultural boundaries]

blog thing -> ILM (or at the very least, every thread about Arcade Fire and MIA)

=how I feel when the P-fork runs their "metal" reviews

De-Douched!

WTF is with ILM and THOU MUST LIKETH THE RAP/HIPHOP OR ELSE YOU ARE A TUNNEL VISIONED RACIST PROBABLY thing anyway.

On another CD, Eminem starts it off by saying, “If you don’t like my music I will F**king kill you!” Now I am sure that is what each and every parent want their child to listen to isn’t it? I can just hear the freaks who love this type of music calling the WHAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE and saying, “Yo Dude! That is what the explicit lyrics warning labels on the CD’s are all about, so just chill out homie and if you’re not down with that don’t buy them.” Sorry kid. Those don’t work anymore. Most people download music off the internet these days and those teenagers who still buy CD’s almost never have their parents accompanying them when they shop at the CD stores, so warning labels do no good.

In ’97 Bonnie and Clyde, Eminen sings to his daughter of why her mommy’s body is in the trunk of the car with a stab wound in her throat and tells the kid to watch mommy float as he puts her body in the water. Just what a kid should be listening to huh?

In Eminem’s song “Kill You” he rapes his own mother.

Shut up slut, you're causin too much chaos
Just bend over and take it like a slut, okay Ma?
"Oh, now he's raping his own mother, abusing a whore,
snorting coke, and we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?"

Anyone who would buy this CD with this song, or download it, is a sick perverted freak just like Eminen and needs to be institutionalized at the funny farm.

Let’s look at a few others of his same ilk.

There is Snoop Dog, and NWA (Niggers With Attitude) for starters. Here are a few explicit lyrics of NWA. I hate printing these but people need to know what their kids are listening to.

Snoop Dog glorifies drug dealing and murder in his songs. Here is just one example:

And Snoop Dogg pass tha mother f**king dolja
I know you mother f**king feel me
C-murder aint gonna die, till a bitch nigga kill me

[Chorus x2]
Kill-kill-kill
Murda-murda-murda
Ain't nut'in personal tru
See it's all about respect
Kill-kill-kill
Murda-murda-murda
Im never got slippin
Keep my heat on the dash

Then there is NWA (Niggers With Attitude):

Yo, every bitch I know they wanna get with me
The mothaf**kin’ notorious d-r-e
Spit game at a bitch while a nigger’s around
And you know most ho’s knows not to clown
’cause if a bitch tries to diss me
What the f*ck I lick her
I smack the bitch up and shoot the nigger that’s with her
That’s the kind of nigger that you’re listenin’ to
Talk to you for a minute get my d*ck in you .. yo
Now every single bitch got a price to pay
Up on the d*cks of n.w.a

This filthy disgusting group of street trash thugs refers to women as ho’s (whore’s) and bitches. They even sing about “smack the bitch up!” Where are the Women’s libbers of NOW when it comes to these guys and guys like them? Why aren’t they filing lawsuits against them? I guess NOW only wants to target White Conservative Republicans and leave the “Bad Boy Rapper’s” alone! I promise you that if Arnold Schwarzenegger said “smack your bitch up” they would be filing lawsuit after lawsuit! He would pay dearly! So where are these women when it comes to Rappers who say these things? Hypocrites!

In that one verse alone, the word “nigger” was used three times and even appears in the group name. Black people do not want to be referred to as “niggers” by White people, yet they make CD’s using that word an untold number of times and market the CD to be sold to White kids who put the headphones on and listen to the word “nigger” being drummed into their head over and over and then the Black rappers and people who use that word get all hot under the collar when a White person uses it! Tell me again how White kids should never use racist words? Black rappers and fans of that music who are Black will say “It’s OK for us to call each other that but we better not catch a honky cracker kid using that word!” No, it is NOT OK for anyone to use that word. Great Black heroes such as Rosa Parks, Rev. Wade Watts, Rev. James Bevels, and Dr. Martin Luther King worked hard and made great sacrifices to overcome being referred to as a “nigger.” Martin Luther King would be rolling over in his grave if he could see how some of these rappers who claim to represent the African American community behave!

These Rap artists are all hypocrites anyway. They sing about how hard life is in the ghettos and projects, but yet they all live in million dollar houses and drive gold plated BMW’s and Mercedes Benzes. Yes they are really suffering aren’t they? If you are a young person in the ghetto, do you really think Eminen or Snoop Dog cares about you? If your father or mother loses their job and can’t pay the rent, go ask Eminen or Snoop Dog to help and see what they tell you! They will tell you they are NOT giving you “jack,” but they make millions a year off kids like you who think they’re so cool with what they are saying, yet they couldn’t care less about you. You are just a mark to them to help gather money for their next dope deal or Mercedes.

NWA also encourages killing police officers. Here are the lyrics where they do this:

Ice cube will swarm
On any muthaf*cka in a blue uniform
Just cuz I’m from the cpt, punk police are afraid of me
A young nigger on a warpath
And when I’m finished, it’s gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dyin in L.A
Yo dre, I got somethin to say

F**k the police

Smoke any muthaf**ka that sweats me
Or any a**ho that threatens me
I’m a sniper with a hell of a scope
Takin out a cop or two, they can’t cope with me

The muthaf**kin villian that’s mad
With potential to get bad as f**k
So I’m a turn it around
Put in my clip, yo, and this is the sound
Ya, somethin like that, but it all depends on the size of the gat

Takin out a police would make my day
But a nigga like ren don’t give a f**k to say

F**k the police

Music has a very powerful influence on our emotions, moods, and behavior. Rap music influences teenagers negatively by increasing violent attitudes and promoting sexual aggression, rape, and physical abuse against women. Rappers have been killing each other such as in the case of Tupac Shakur, Notorious Big and several others. The example this sets for kids is that if they don’t like someone, go shoot them. Could you even imagine in your wildest dreams, country singers Johnny Cash getting a gun and shooting Buck Owens, or even Alan Jackson gunning down Toby Keith? I think not!

Parents you have a responsibility to help your children clean up their music collection and get that filth out of your children’s room, if your children won’t do it themselves. Rap music is a cancer on the youth, because their lyrics are about drugs, killing cops, acts of perversion, rape, carjacking, party, sex, murders, and abuse of women.

Every day, whether I am traveling in Australia, New Zealand, or here at home in the USA, I am seeing more and more young people imitating their favorite Rap stars and making idols out of them. Young people are using them for role models. We are seeing more and more people, who think they are gangsters, dress in baggy clothing with fake bling-blings. I see more and more kids using that slang ghetto-garbage talk and disrespecting their elders. Their ghetto Ebonics talk makes one look like they are illiterate, stupid, and just plain dumb. Is that how you really want people to view you young people? I should think you would have a little more pride then that! And parents! Do you really want society to view your child that way? And listen up young people! Do you really think you are going to get a decent job anywhere when you talk that trash and wear those stupid looking baggy clothes and fake bling- bling?

I care about the youth because the youth of today will decide what kind of world we live in tomorrow. I will shoot straight with the youth and tell them the truth, whereas the Rappers will not. The truth is, the Rappers are not only destroying each other, but many police officers, innocent bystanders, and young children have lost their lives at the hands of those who are influenced by rap music. Many women have been raped and killed because of those who fell under the influence of rap music. Get rid of this poison before it kills you too! If you want to listen to something, download this song by the West Texas Rednecks!

Rap is Crap.

I like country music
I love country girls
I like Willie Nelson
and don't forget about Merle

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

I like NASCAR racing
Richard Petty's still the king
Yeah, they call me a redneck
But you know, that's a beautiful thing!

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

There's only one thing that I hate
Cuz it's a bunch of crap
I, I, I hate rap

Raaaaaaap is crap
Raaaaaaap is crap

Anybody: "Can I say what I don't like about rap?"
ILM: "LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING YOU RACIST CUNT"

This one goes out to my real close friend and buddy
Curt Hennig A.K.A. Mr. Perfect just want to
let you know that you're missed but you'll never be forgotten
You've always been an incredible friend and we just want
you to know that we've got your back buddy
system style from Macho Man Randy Savage

Hey Curt we miss you but we know you're in a better place
It's kinda hard as time goes on and I don't see your face
So I'm clinchin' and I'm holdin' on to memories
Remember the times rollin' strong just you and me
It's real hard sometimes to keep it goin' day to day
But I know you wouldn't want it any other way
So I keep it movin' doin' what I gotta do
And as a tribute I'm dedicating this song to you

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

Mr. Perfect's the name it'll never be forgotten
As long as Macho's around I'm a keep ya spot in
Wrestling history cuz you were all about perfection
It's not a mystery that wrestling was the right selection
Cuz you were one of the best very high on my list
Not just in the ring but outta the ring you're dearly missed
But your name lives on we carry on your legacy
Cuz the passion that you left with us lives on in me

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

We remember Mr. Perfect (you know you'll be truly missed)
He was always in command (you know you'll be truly missed) 3x
His greatness was so obvious
That all could understand

He brightened up a locker room (you know I'm missin' you (missin' you)
He made the time go by (how much you'll never know (never know)
He had personality (deep in our hearts we'll never ever forget you)
Gregarious, not shy

He really was perfection
But now he's gone away
We're lucky to have known him
And we'll miss him everyday
Mr. Perfect

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

You were my perfect friend
Right there until the end
I'm forever missin' you
Until we meet again
Can't explain this pain
Never felt like this
Mr. Perfect don't you know
That you'll be truly missed

Now this may sound disgusting an’ like very gross
But it’s sure to have your trippin’
So y’all listen close
It’s not bright as the sun or sweet like sugar
But it’s rather on the bug tip and it’s called pickin’ boogers
Now what I’m emceein’ might not seem kosher to you
But it’s still somethin’ we all have to do
So go up your nose with a finger or two
And pull out one or a crusty crew
Yo, don’t try to front like it’s so gloomy and gray
’cause we all pick our boogers sometime every day
Whether out in the open or on a sneak tip
With a finger, tissue, or even a q-tip
Take it from the biz markie because I’m jokin’
And also, remember this slogan
Hey, ma, what’s for dinner?
Go up your nose and pick a winner
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers

Let me tell you what happened on the train, man

I was coolin’ one day with my partner kane
Headed up to the rooftop, ridin’ the d train
When the man sittin’ next to me was so profane
He’d stick his finger up his nose, then do a drain
(you should ’a moved)
I was just about, but all of a sudden, homeboy just pulled out
A big green slimey, not even gonna say it
But it weighed a good pound if you tried to weigh it
He sat there for a while with it in his hand
So I tried to play cool and like ignore the man
So I laid my head back to catch a quick nap
All of sudden, he plucked it dead in my lap
Now kane sat there laughing like it was all a joke
But a brother like biz markie had almost choked
So I dug up my nose and pulled out about 5
And plucked every last one of them dead in his eye
Then the man jumped up and said
"What's wrong with you?"
and wiped them off his face and said
"I can't mess with you"
Like if I did something that was so full of shame
But yo you got to know the name of the game
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers (Mmmm)

Now let me take a trip down memory lane
Back in public school with my partner kane
When I was class clown and he was my brother
Sittin’ at the desk pluckin’ boogers at each other
Never do our work as we were suppose
’cause we was too busy diggin’ up our nose
and in the lunchroom we would talk about rude
gossip at the person that all leave his food
No matter who you are we didn't give a damn
We even put teachers down with the program
Well if you was a woman or if you're a man
We'd put boogers on our fingers then shake your hand
Catch anyone from anywhere, but the best fun about it
catchin’ kane out there
Especially when we playing ball at the gym
I put boogers on the basketball and pass it to him
Now we're grown up and think that's changed
But we're still playin’ the pick your boogers game
Just last night when kane was gettin’ ready
I slipped a little green one inside his spaghetti
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers
Pickin’ boogers

Let me tell you what happened to me with this girl

One night in Latin Quarters I was standin’ there easy
I saw a gorgeous young lady that I wanted to squeeze
I knew sure enough that I really did want it
so no half-steppin’ I pushed the bonnet
Well I'm a go-able and enough that was phat
Had a spotlight beamin’ on my bismal cap
But when she stepped in the light and she got real close
I saw a teeny weeny booger on the tip of her nose
She was dressed real dep and and her body was hooked
But that brought-up booger just ruined the look
I wanted to tell her about it but I couldn't be bold
So I played it off and said "That's a cute green mole"
I was hopin’ from that she would wipe it away
But she didn't do nothin’ , I guess she wanted it to stay
I said "Before you get my number, I don't mean to diss you,
but write it in the handbook ’cause you're gonna need the tissue"

now admit that you hate rap you racist bastard

Let people like what they like ffs. I rarely post on ILM even though I've been here 3 years now, but I know if I ramble on about certain bands I'll get slammed or laughed at, and while that don't bother me in the slightest, it IS very BORING.

xpost hahahaha

Just last night when kane was gettin’ ready
I slipped a little green one inside his spaghetti
Pickin’ boogers

it's not baffling, it's race

wanting to be inclusive, expansive, put tastes where mouth is, etc.

i.e.

[write some bullshit in this space later about the advantages of not ever looking beyond your nose, bookmarked weblogs or immediate class/race/cultural boundaries]

or that

I'm not gonna lie to people and say that if 17yo bro had written really well about his indie choices I wouldn't still be a little peeved that he played those off as obstacles to the appreciation of rap. I mean, the point is that all those genres (free jazz, Gregorian chants, etc.) DO exist, and none of them have to compete with each other.

Obviously no one has an unlimited amount of time on their hands, but we can all still listen to quite a lot if we choose to do so. My point was more that genres are not opposed to each other. There is no such thing as the opposite of indie in the same way that there is no such thing as the opposite of a ladybug, too many different aspects to each. So if this kid is so stoked on music, why isn't he devouring more of it?

And I think rap gets harped upon so much as opposed to reggaeton/free jazz/whatever is that rap is such a big part of pop music in general right now. I mean, there is rock-based music, there is more "pure" pop music (i.e. Britney Spears, Girls Aloud, etc.), and there is hip hop. Those are the three biggest genres of music that exist as really essential to the pop music landscape at the moment, IMO (not that any of them are completely pure or uninfluenced by each other or other genres). Sure, it'd be great for Alan to get into metal or house or soul or reggae or son, but it's much easier to point out that he's not into hip hop because it is so ubiquitous at the moment.

I was going to make an analogy to living in Montana and not interacting with black people and living in New York without interacting with black people, i.e. the latter is much harder because of the landscape and greater population of black people in New York as opposed to Montana, but I think it's a really bad way to think about things so forget I even thought it, much less wrote it down to tell you not to think about it.

There's music that means a lot to me though, makes me happy, and it happens in my case to be well err... indie. I hate using that phrase NOW though because it meant *something* 15 years ago but it certainly doesn't anymore.

And my horror if I knew a bunch of people would be doing this to it.

Luckily I lived in a time when not everyone's opinions mattered

It is true that if you say you hate a slew of artists who constitute "black" chart pop (i.e. the biggest rap and R&B and such hits of the year) around somewhere like this, it IS possible some idiots will call you racist. But that's all they would be, idiots.

Whiney, OTM. Now EVERYONE'S opinion matters! Man, everyone is making me feel really bad about starting this thread, like I need to go give Alan a hug or something.

xpost Edward I consider "pop" to be the most liquid genre of the rock/pop/rap trifecta, and in my mental approximations it usually comes down to "feel" in areas of question. But I think a couple of attributes include synthesized as opposed to live instrumentation, recognizable hooks/catchiness, and slick production standards. Also, in my approximation it just happens to be that more women fall into the genre than men. Not that they must, but I could probably tell by the "look" of an artist what her/his music would sound like. Of course these are very bad, external judgments on which to base music, and they are only in the most general sense. It is possible to have music I would call "pop" (the genre) made by a man, with live instrumentation, mid-range production standards, and... well, the catchiness is still a criterion, for GOOD "pop" at least.

R&B/"pop" crossover is much trickier. I think I'm basically saying "pop"=dance(able) music with vocals. Except in the case of the ballads, but I guess you can slow dance to those.

I'm not saying this is a good way to think about it, but when I think of pop as a genre (i.e. pop as "pop," haha), this is usually the kind of thing I think about. Maybe I should work on it.

This describes lots of rap. As does "danceable music with vocals".

I am not too big on current chart music in general, and not on any of those genres (at least not of "pure" pop means "manufactured pop" in a way where the artist has little power over the songwriting, production or even selection of songs). If you take your time to check the album lists, there are other dominant genres that I do indeed like though, like the melancholy melodic pop/rock of acts such as Coldplay and Keane which doesn't fit into any of the three main categories you listed, and which is still obviously very popular right now (although maybe not among the same agegroup that makes sure hip-hop and mainstream pop are in the hitlists).

And still, there is a lot of great music out there. Being a pop fan, I sort of expect the hitlists to contain something of value, but I have still learnt that it usually hasn't for the past 20 years or so.

The right thing would have been to say that I'd heard a few artists she was comparing him to and had no interest, but instead made the point that she had no idea who Ghostface was despite having heard of the Wu-Tang Clan. I might have been drunk, too.

When the Voice's C@r@m@nic@ said of Cam, "The avant-garde need not be moral," he pulled a neat rhetorical trick: simultaneously labeling Cam's music avant-garde and making it possible to dismiss anyone who disagrees as either a puritanical fuddy-duddy or someone who just doesn't get it (i.e., isn't hip to the avant-garde). Of course, the phrase "avant-garde" itself has always been a convenient critical bludgeon.

Poor Alan just wants the cool kids to like him, ya see?

Also, xpost Mike, your story makes me laugh. I can imagine that.

xxpost Geir, I'm really intrigued by your classification of Coldplay/Keane as outside of the genre "trifecta." Initially, I would not have considered either of them to be as such. I would probably have considered them both to be examples of "pop," exceptions to a couple of the qualifications I laid out earlier. But I think you might be right. Hmm...

Then there's the people who make a point not to know anything because they have inherently better taste and they're not afraid to confront others about it. The writer is, in fact, being that guy. Spoon nailed it! Great, I've heard some Spoon and think they're pretty cool, but I don't own any albums! Why do I care that you've got your interests and don't really feel like expanding because you're comfortable. There's no shame. He could have written about how it was a great year for listening to all the albums on his shelf so he didn't really get into anything new. As it is, this reads like INDIE GUILT.

thanks for summing up all my rambling posts upthread in two words of OTMness

but then i also hear about cadence, which still has yet to excite me, though that doesn't mean it won't

I don't know, I just get a bug up my ass about words like "innovative" being used to mean "I really like it a lot so I'm gonna drape it in protective superlatives"

specific subjects, dramatic stances, rhetorical flourishes?
http://www.okayplayer.com/nowhearthis/images/canibus.jpg
http://cover6.cduniverse.com/CDUCoverArt/Music/5877597.jpg
http://www.down-south.com/images/covers/tennessee/YoungBuck-StraightOuttaCashville.jpg
http://www.mtv.com/bands/m/mixtape_monday/031405/images/saigon.jpg

specific beats?
http://www.mixent.com/images/djthoroenyce_justblaze.gif
http://www.mumbleshiphop.com/store2/images/jzone_sick.jpg
http://www.dirtysouthunion.com/images/oldpics/334mobb088.jpg
http://star-blog69.skyrock.com/pics/170514188_small.jpg

I agree with Mo about the radical new turf made available by rap - so much more room to play once the structure's opened up. What I think is a little ripe, though, is the level of innovation being ascribed to rap at present/over the past ten years: rap opened up the poetic barriers about twenty-odd years ago, no?

xpost

xpost: as for narrative possibility, yeah, but how much or often is that really exploited? Look at the rap singles showing up on year-end lists, they're great songs but not so much because of their narratives. ("Stay Fly" = how many different ways can we say we're driving around town getting high; "Still Tippin'" = well, more or less the same thing; "Hate It or Love It" has more going on, but not much that hasn't been done lots of times before.) Of course plenty of undie rappers play more explicitly and creatively w/narrative, but most of them aren't as much fun to listen to (i.e. don't see many of them on the year-end lists). I think claims for narrative innovation get dicey, because while it's true, it's not the whole -- or even main -- reason that most of us love hip-hop.

It was more about the new generation of Houston rappers, Lil Flip first, then the whole Swishahouse camp, and they sound different from what came before although obv very dependent on Houston's history/mythology.

Re: shakey's But as far as formal music innovation goes, its been treading water since the death of sampling pretty much

And I don't mean to sound like boring ILM lemming #2,076 here but dude TIMBALAND. Haha. I mean, fuck forget about Timbaland there are so many guys who've done new and DIFFERENT things since the Biz Markie trial - Swizz, Rick Rock, Mannie Fresh, Hypnotized Minds, whoever does Trick Daddy and Trina bass-influenced beats, Just Blaze, Lil Jon, Neptunes, Beats by the Pound, Puffy's crew, Trackmasters, Kanye, DJ Quik, Dre. And like dance music its v. cannibalistic, but that's how rap has ALWAYS been - Dre copping George Clinton, Lil Jon using novation synths, Mannie's interpolation of bounce via hip-hop, etc.

I knew it was Ethan posting pictures as soon as I saw Canibus.

x-post

If it takes a willfully shit-disturbing misinterpretation of an online article to generate a meaningful discourse about rap and 17 year old kids then job well done. Try: "I hate metal and am too busy to care about that." Way thicker.

Indie. That sounds more like a business model (DIY principles and all) than a genre of music. The term "indie" as applied to Rock and Pop usually means less-than-competant musicianship unfocused songwriting and amateurish vocals. No doublt, thoug there may be a few exceptions. I was rather underwhelmed by THe New Pornographers, The Wilderness, Architecture in Helsinki and The Decemberists this year. I'm as far away from the Mainstream as one human can possibly get while still inhabiting Earth, but Indie as a genre I find rather lacking.

Aaron, no disrespect to you. I have really enjoyed your writing on CMG, and I would like to take back any disrespect I have already shown to Alan. However, a couple of things about the points you bring up.

1) Most memoirs are interesting because they are about already famous/fascinating people or because the writer writes in such a way that she almost transcends the genre of memoir. Baban's essay is neither of these things. Excusing overly solipsistic (or "blog-like") writing by saying "a lot of these year end essays are" that way is mildly irresponsible. When we did something wrong as kids, my parents taught me not to worry about the punishment my brother and sister got and just to concentrate on my own punishment. Point being, poor behavior on Stylus' part doesn't excuse it for everyone.

2) I never meant to imply that Baban was racist, and given his age, it's not a big deal that he hasn't "discovered" rap. In fact, I agree with most of the people on this thread who have said that if he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it. I understand that he wants to be open to rap, but this only makes his essay read like a document of a failed New Year's resolution. The whole act of writing the essay does read like INDIE GUILT. I was/am basically questioning the reasoning for the existence of the essay at all.

3) The Coltrane/Nirvana analogy is misleading in its choice of subjects, although I understand your point. I think.

4) Tangent: I've read some of Baban's reviews. He is a poor writer amidst an interesting staff with a sense of humor. Why was he hired on? I mean, doesn't the fact that someone is only 17 mean something? Maybe people should have a certain amount of life/music experience before they are hired on to write even vaguely "authoritative" opinions on a music website with a desire to expand and, I imagine, get paid for its reviews.

I don't think anyone is calling him out as a racist. It's more entertaining that he assigns some importance to checking out rap, but hasn't. It really reminds me about how I talked about joining the fitness program at work or getting off my ass occasionally, but here I am at the end of the year with a beer gut. In other words, I was paying lip service to it because of some internal guilt -- which is exactly what the article sounds like! The only difference is that it's fine to not listen to any particular type of music and it's really easy to start if you want to. A lot easier to remedy than manboobs, I tell you what.

-- Trayce (spamspanke...), December 28th, 2005.

ur an asshat SLICE

Someone else can likely define this better, and I hope they try.

haha try reading ilm

-- u saved me (wt...), Today. (tracklink) (later)

*Yawn!*

-- regular roundups (daphima@g(amma)mail.com), December 29th, 2005 12:23 PM. (Dave M)

pffft

(c - . -) zZzzZZzzzzZz

says the guy who seems to have actually read, and for all I know participated in,

when did ILM get taken over by MORONS?
-- u saved me (wt...), December 29th, 2005. (tracklink) (later)

/:=0-=
   /

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Thanks Jess or whoever for killing this thread. Sorry we're not all as bored with ILM as you are. I know rule #1 is not to take things here too seriously, but I have a hard time seeing the difference between trolls and the "old" ILM-ers who shit on threads like this because they themselves have already heard/been through this argument and think everyone should be where they are with the whole thing. It's like a senile grandfather who's a total prick to his grandkids and makes them listen to his asinine ramblings because even after all his experience he's still somehow deeply unhappy with himself. The fact that those of you I'm talking to will like that description just makes it worse.

"seriously"

1. Alpha Tired Of Guys Who Say Bitch At Least Once Per Song
2. Going Someplace Quiet
3. Quis Custodiet Custodies Ipsos
4. I Probably Misremembered That Latin, My Bad Yo
5. Hast Thou Considered The Merch Table
6. Still Tippin'
7. Long Spoken Word Polemic About The Sorry State Of The Discourse Around Rap
8. Skit: Sound of Toilet Flushing
9. Long Spoken Word Bet-Hedging Polemic About How the Rock Discourse Is Little Better
10-13. Beehoven, Symphony No. 5

Depends on your definition of pop. If you share my genre definition (which is based on certain musical elements rather than popularity), then Coldplay and Keane are way more pop than Britney Spears is. :)

(At least Keane I would classify as pure classic melodic pop, whereas Coldplay do have some rock/indie elements in addition)

It may pain you to consider it, but the fact is many literate people consider bullsh*t like Clipse to be embarrassing and false. And while they may not be expressing this in terms florid enough for your approval, the dope, guns and f***ing in the streets arm of hip-hop reeks of the worst unsubstantiated bravado and meaningless "rebel" cool, things only a thirteen year-old could find intimidating or impressive.

[And Tom, what are even saying in that penultimate paragraph? "If you don't have anything overeducated to say, don't say anything at all?" You don't have to take "simple" criticism seriously? Wake up from the liberal-arts dream, dude. This is New York City. And your list sucks.]

That you and your gaggle of well-fed pals are so incapable of calling a duck a duck is only evidence of a sad, totally unexamined (and frankly racist) effort to prop up laughable hip-hop loudmouths as poets, to transitively transcend your sheltered insecurity by basking in their (completely phony) overconfidence and "hard" image. Cocaine! Holy s***!

You can't king-make a jester like Jeezy. Yours and so many of your peers' fantasies of and condescension toward nonsense like "trap-hop" absolutely jumps from the page. And apparently you don't even know it, can't see it, and will continue to make fools of yourselves, a la Nick Sylvester's increasingly-used and outrageously racist Amos n' Andy voice (see Pitchfork singles list entry #16).

Posted by: Chris Ott at December 29, 2005 10:36 AM

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