Can we agree on a definition - "NPR Rock" ??

E.g.: "soccer-mom music" = bourgeois / "Stephin Merritt is the Cole Porter of the 21st century" = bourgie / "Wilco are the most intelligent, experimental rock band in the country" = both at once.

I think more the latter, since i grew up in a lower middle/working class enviro, but the former works just as well, esp. since that's where many of my friends would fit.....

No, i'm not talking about bumper music, and the world music thing almost works more for the Pacifica network, although it does show up on npr quite a lot.

Wilco works just fine as an example I suppose, and they were a band that i liked w/o embarrassment until the hype of YFH, by the time i finally heard the record, i had somehow lost interest, although i thought it was ok collection (a bit lacking in the hooks dept)

FOW completely OTM - I hate that nasal pseudo-pop, that shit is the Sarah Vowell of the music world, and that is an abomination before God and everyone else!

The cult of Nic Harcourt is mystifying to an east coaster, from what I've seen he's got dull pedestrian-hipster taste "alumni eclectic"

http://www.xpn.org/Top50_2005.php

"run run run" to segway to a story about a recently deceased former senator
"this is hardcore" for....something not hardcore
several radiohead bits as segways on "Marketplace"

and the definative NPR record: yo la tengo's summer sun

Almost precisely bass-ackwards, that. It's got three strains:
1. People Our Age Who Are Still Growing, Gracefully (Richard Thompson, Emmylou Harris, U2, Sting, Aimee Mann, David Byrne, Sheryl Crow)
2. Adorable Young People Who Recognize That The Music We Like Is Timeless (Norah Jones, Ryan Adams, Coldplay, John Mayer, Sufjan Stevens, Joss Stone)
3. We're Still Hip! (Wilco, Kanye West, Ozomatli)

i agree w/ matt, theres nothing wrong with polite, its the mediocre and visciously bland i take issue with.

Yes, I've only seen them once, but that was enough.

In Leadbelly's "Bourgeois blues" who was he talking about, exactly?

that music is called "pop" n'est-pas only it's from the Capulet strain and the Montagu popists, who are into dancing, hate it like poison

1. Prarie Home Companion is Hee-Haw for yuppies.

2. A buddy of mine heard them read a letter this summer- a listener who complained that that NPR had done a story on John Hiatt. NPR was her refuge from that terrible Heavy metal music.

3. Calling music "World" music seems to say something about the cozy, polite mindset- exploring music as an excercise in open-mindedness, rather than an act of passion. I like some music from non-English speaking counties, but not because its from elsewhere in the world. Self-congradulation seems to be part of NPR listening.

4. That band Kinky is probably the Platonic ideal of a NPR Rock.

hahahahahahahahahahahahah

OTM

Pacifica(at least the local affiliate), who one might think would be more annoyingly reverent and self-congratulatory, programs great blocs that showcase lots of amazing (nominally) non-western music simply as a function of the DJs being knowledgeable and passionate about the music and trying to find the hot shit whereever they can find it as opposed to just cherry-picking the trendiest world hybrids and throwing them in as 'exotic' seasoning.

Hiya, Susan

Off the top of my head I can recall hearing segments on TV on the Radio, Broken Social Scene, The Roots, Congotronics, Dinosaur Jr., Spoon, Mountain Goats, Brian Eno, Mos Def. Plus Ed Gordon always has hiphop and r+b segments, not to mention guys like The RZA on Fresh Air.

Considering their audience is everybody, I'd say they do a decent job mixing it up.

remembering some fact about the 930 club..yes. synth, I believe?
http://myspace-355.vo.llnwd.net/00419/55/32/419832355_l.jpg

and on NPR artists, Aimee Man OTM.

this is kinda NPR in general for me, and I'm always amazed when they do live audience shows, and people are going crazy

music audiences in consisting of people other than hardcore always-think-about-music ppl shocker!

I dunno about anyone else but I think the "Lucinda, Aimee Mann, Coldplay, etc." characterizations are coming from Morning Becomes Eclectic and other actual musical programming, not the stories and artist spotlight things NPR does, which are pretty well mixed. I mean, I really like certain people like Aimee Mann, Sufjan, (I'll add Sondre Lerche cos it's fun) et al but the daytime music programming does seem to fall within unmistakably tight aesthetic boundaries(typified by the link DJ martian provided which should have locked this thread) and presented in a curiously un-exciting manner.

groups people on ILM seem to like?

The proper term for "Soccer Mom Music"/dadrock ought to be "Starbucks Rock".

Episode 100

A taste of soul music from Cat Power
Belle and Sebastian's Isobel Campbell
Bach from trumpeter Alison Balsom
Stray Cats rockabilly bassist Lee Rocker
Sierra Leone's Refugee All Stars
1950s calypso artist The Mighty Sparrow

Episode 99

From January 11, 2006: Reissued work from Billy Bragg; New music from folk singer Janis Ian; Country morphs into jazz with Robinella; A tribute to Jeff and Tim Buckley; Broken Social Scene's Jason Collett; Sweden's sullen and soulful José González; Algerian singer/songwriter Souad Massi

Episode 98

From January 4, 2006: Long-awaited new music from The Strokes; a first-ever solo studio CD by former Kinks frontman Ray Davies; Tortoise and Bonnie Prince Billy collaborate on a new CD; Richard and Linda Thompson's son Teddy Thompson; Irish fiddle music from Liz Carroll; A cappella Ladysmith Black Mambazo; A saxophone improvisation by Assif Tsahar; Whimsical, trippy rock from The Earlies; Hardcore and soft, but Tender Forever.

Episode 97

From December 7, 2005: Horses remastered and live from Patti Smith; A preview of new music by Nellie McKay; A new retrospective on Jelly Roll Morton; Stunning slack key guitar from Sonny Lim; Medieval synthesizer work by Hurdy Gurdy; Swedish art pop from Jens Lekman.

Listen to the entire show

Details about Episode 97

Iron and Wine/Calexico Live

From November 30, 2005: New-folk artists Iron and Wine join the roots rock group Calexico for a night of music, recorded live at Washington, D.C.'s 9:30 Club. Hear and download the full concert by both bands, originally webcast live on NPR.org on Nov. 30 with special guest, flamenco guitarist Salvador Duran.

etc etc etc

This is absurd. When I think about NPR's core demographic, it's not made up of elitist opera fans, it's Baby Boomers. Now maybe the rock that Baby Boomers like is dadrock or MOR or whatever, but you can't argue that it's not rock 'n' roll and that the Boomers' appreciation of it isn't genuine.

Baby Boomers really not like me. Them's that don't like rock 'n' roll, the one's you don't see at the Ted Nugent or Scorpions concerts. But the one who want to hear someone talking about painfully indie sincere music to make you think, numerous other wash-ups of alleged intellectual value, medieval synthesizer work by Hurdy Gurdy, Swedish art pop, Sweden's sullen and soulful Jose Speedy Gonzalez, etc.

Hey, having been on NPR and other talk radio shows, given the option of audiences, lost of people -- Boomers included -- will pick "other radio."

Subtle.

Cue George Carlin's character in Bill and Ted:
"Plus, it's excellent for dancing."

Everyone's discussed age as a factor (boomers, yups, etc) but no one's discussed politics. How does ilm's NPR hate differ from Rush Limbaugh's NPR hate? Sure scans the same, if you're scanning.

B-b-but George's dangling participle makes it sound like it's "lots of people" who have been on NPR and other talk shows!

George, if your problem is with people not liking Ted Nugent and the Scorpions, then the NPR crowd is but a drop in a pool.

Hey, I was Rush's buddy for a day a couple years ago and didn't even know it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0413/smith.php

Once I even lectured at the Cato Institute but mostly people call me a leftist puke.

George, if your problem is with people not liking Ted Nugent and the Scorpions

It's not. I don't like the Scorpions that much, particularly after Uli Roth left.

Christopher O'Riley playing solo piano renditions of Radiohead

8:59 Gotan Project La Del Ruso La Revancha Del Tango
Ya Basta
9:04 My Morning Jacket Off The Record Z
Ato
9:08 Pink Floyd Echos Meddle
Emi
9:21 Gram Rabbit Witness Music To Start A Cult To
Stinky
9:25 Groove Armada Edge Hill Goodbye Country Hello Nightclub
Jive Electro
9:29 Chalets No Style No Style
Setanta
9:32 Goldfrapp Fly Me Away Supernature
Emi
9:36 Gus Gus Ladyshave This Is Normal
4ad
9:40 Tina Dico Losing In The Red
Finest Gramophone
9:44 Trilok Gurtu Dinki Puriya African Fantasy
Esc
9:48 Anoushka Shankar Naked Rise -remixes
Angel
9:53 Brandi Carlile Follow Brandi Carlile
Red Ink/ Columbia
10:01 William Orbit Surfin Hello Waveforms
Sanctuary
10:06 Boy Least Like Be Gentle With Me Best Party Ever
To Young To Die
10:08 Blockhead Cherry Picker Downtown Science
Ninja Tune
10:14 Belle & Sebastian Funny Little Frog Life Persuit
Matador
10:18 Bob Dylan W/ George Harrison Concert Of Bangladesh Sampler
Capitol
10:22 Boards Of Canada Campfire Headphase Campfire Headphase

10:27 Cat Power Where Is My Love The Greatest
Matador
10:29 Bill Withers Who Is He (and What Is He To You) Still Bill
Columbia/legacy
10:33 Sergio Mendes Feat: John Legend Please Baby Don't Timeless
Concord Music
10:37 South Speed Up/slow Down Speed Up/slow Down
Young American
10:40 Grand Tourism La Guitare Enchante'e Grand Tourism
Cyberoctave
10:43 Ely Guerra Angilito Heart Sweet &sour Hot Y Spicy
Higher Octave
10:49 The Like (so I'll Sit Here) Waiting Are You Thinking What I'm Thinking
Geffen
10:53 Jack Johnson Upside Down Upside Down- Single
Universal
10:56 Grasshopper W/ Ocd Bottle Factory Back In No Time Essopus Magazine
Esopus
11:07 Tom Vek Nothing But Green Lights Nothing But Green Lights
Go Beat
11:12 Talking Heads Once In A Lifetime Remain In Light
Sire/ Rhino
11:17 Go Team Ladyflash Thunder Lightning Strike
Columbia
11:21 Ulrich Schnauss Knuddelmaus Far Away Trains Passing By
Domino
11:29 Gullemots Trains To Brazil Mini Album
Fantastic Plastic
11:32 Putumayo Presents Ska Cubano Putumayo Presents: Caribbean
Putumayo Artists
11:35 The Specials Ghost Town Loaded #1
Emi
11:41 Oliver Nelson Stolen Moments Inpulsive Revolutionary Jazz
Impulse
11:43 Hot Chip Crap Kraft Dinner Coming On Strong
Astralwerks
11:49 Rosanne Cash Black Cadillac Black Cadillac
Capitol
11:53 Crosby Stills & Nash Teach Your Children Crosby Stills & Nash
Atlantic/ Rhino
11:56 George Ivanovich Tsabropoulos Chants Hymns & Dances
Ecm

Some thought went into the choice of a flower as peace offering.

Not that we'd know anything about self-congratulation around these parts.

funnily, i find soundcheck is at its blandest when he does indie-rock stuff: clap your hands say yeah, sufjan, spoon, etc. when he has classical or jazz or whatever, a lot of times it's pretty cool. i heard diamanda galas on there not too long ago, she was fun. also, his "new sounds" show at night can be interesting.

Predictable. If it's in the NYT, especially the Sunday edition, it must be so so good for your brain cells.

"[blah] works just fine as an example I suppose, and they were a band that i liked w/o embarrassment until the hype of [blah blah], by the time i finally heard the record, i had somehow lost interest..."

That's the indie credo, isn't it? You're not being an individual with that kind of attitude, you're just joining a different herd of sheep. Why not let your own ears decide what kind of music you like rather than worrying so much about what someone else thinks.

"Baby Boomers really not like me. Them's that don't like rock 'n' roll, the one's you don't see at the Ted Nugent or Scorpions concerts."
But what if they like rock that doesn't suck? Or bands that aren't just a bunch of oldsters playing county fairs rehashing their old music as a sad parody of their younger selves. How is your love of that crap any better than some Boomer loving the Rolling Stones or Led Zepplin or whatever? I could see your point if it wasn't just a different genre of old crap that you were talking about. If you were championing newer bands like the Black Lips or Tokyo Electron or Demons Claws or whatever, yeah, but Ted Nugent and the fucking Scorps? No.

I guess we can add thin-skinned and humor-impaired to the list of traits above...

"Why not let your own ears decide what kind of music you like rather than worrying so much about what someone else thinks."

Actually, learn to read. I said that i felt the tunes were lacking, esp. compared to the previous 2 records, the comment about the hype was just an observation. Now that I think about it a little more, I simply grew tired of Tweedy's rather limited voice.

I like the first 2/3 of In Trance a lot. Virgin Killer is also pretty solid. And "Speedy's Comin'" is cranking on "Fly to the Rainbow." Some people like the first live album because it takes a lot from In Trance through to Taken by Force and ratchets it up a notch. Bext example is "Robot Man" and "He's a Woman, She's a Man."

could see your point if it wasn't just a different genre of old crap that you were talking about. If you were championing newer bands

That's the job, huh, to champion new bands? Hmm, if I were in a new band I'd think I'd not want to be on NPR because it would be a waste of time, an audio version of an exotic and really precious bug collection.

I thought that was part of the thrill.

Oh yeah, selling records is a waste of time if it isn't to the "right people"

Try "We're so much more enlightened than the guy in the next cubicle at our graphic design firm."

the embarassment comment was actually referring to the extreme hatred they get here, a hatred i never had, and still don't. and when i say until, i'm referring to the longish period of time b/w the announcement of the cancelled record deal, and when it finally came out. In that period, i just stopped being into them, for various reasons. (and i wasn't downloading then, so i didn't hear YFH until its official release) The hype about the "radical" "out there" nature of the album played, at best, a tiny part in my somewhat lukewarm opinion of the record. I just thought it was a tad dull, but basically ok. whatevs.......

Please acquire a sense of humor, or stop reading ilm if people shooting fish in a barrell gets you all hot & bothered.

the comment about the suv is too ridiculous to even respond to. yeah, you read me like a book, oh wise seer of men.

but also i think npr has a sort of inescapable boutique feel about it, and that gets reflected in almost anything that gets presented there. they could play gg allin and it would sound a little cleaned-up and safely intellectualized.

otoh, the first place i heard "pon de replay" was on all things considered last may, when they had some DJs on predicting what would be the big hits of the summer.

12 Tonar Record Store

Douridas was arrested for the alleged crime of being a pervert this week, being said to have slipped a mickey finn into a 14-year old's drink (a 14-year old in a Santa Monica bar?!) in a botched attempt to kidnap her. If it rings a bell, it's the Andrew Luster modus. No charges have yet been filed. Perhaps they never will.

Today, there was an editorial contribution on the Op-Ed page in the LA Times on it. Mostly unintentionally humorous, it likened NPR music to "sonic air freshener" for upper middle class homes, a variation on the favorite, -the-music-is-good-for-you-like-vitamins-for-the-brain groupthink.

It's retardely dumb.

oldest ruse

So who did they have on after Sufjan Stevens?

Doesn't mean it's not like a blind pig, capable of finding the occasional truffle.

Anyway, the entertainment business has always been full of dudes who publicly champion young dames and sub rosa mickey finn others.

Anyway I don't think that'll quite happen -- Arrested Development didn't get massive play on hip-hop radio and didn't produce songs for the most cred-heavy rappers in the business. I know what you're getting at though -- there must be a better analogue.

i always assume that there's an almost perfect correlation b/w "npr rock" and "starbucks rock."

I think John Schaefer is a v.good interviewer FWIW.

this Soundcheck of course was classic:

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/soundcheck/episodes/04132004

Colin Meloy to Gently Rock NPR

David Nadelle reports:
National Public Radio: no longer just for your parents. For the past year, NPR has been offering some damn fine live concert programming via its website, with shows by the White Stripes, Iron and Wine with Calexico, Bloc Party, Bright Eyes, Wilco, Interpol, and many more available for free download from its website.

And now, Decemberists fans can rejoice for a second time, as Colin Meloy's solo show at the Birchmere in Alexandria, Virginia this Saturday, January 28, will be the latest webcast in NPR.org's "All Songs Considered" program. (A Decemberists show at Washington, DC's 9:30 Club last May was also featured on "All Songs Considered".)

Both Meloy's and opener Laura Veirs' sets will be streamed live in their entireties on NPR.org starting around 7:30 PM EST Saturday, and will be available as a free mp3 download from the website's permanent archive starting Sunday, January 29. Additionally, some selections will be featured on NPR's weekly "All Songs Considered" podcast starting February 1.

NPR has also pumped its cred up a couple notches by gaining a new sponsor for "All Songs Considered": none other than "Hipster Handbook"-approved Pabst Blue Ribbon. How cool is PBR now? About as cool as it was when Dennis Hopper's Blue Velvet character Frank Booth said "Heineken? Fuck that foreign shit! Pabst Blue Ribbon is what you'll drink tonight!"

It's only a matter of time before Von Dutch starts knocking on NPR's door.

LOCK.

THREAD.

LOCK.

THREAD.

ATTEMPT II.

Not very. "Gently rocking" on Pabst Blue Ribbon. Pabst is still dirt cheap beer that tastes like it. I drink a lot of it but it's far from what "hipsters" may think it is. In print, it seems to have gathered a reputation from people who have never actually bought and consumed it.

Lucky Lager would definitely be a step up. It's about the same price but comes with little puzzles in the bottlecaps. NPR-fanarics could think of them as brain-teasers.

We call that "post-grunge" where I come from... A bland name, but hell, it's a bland genre. (And I remember when Goo Goo Dolls wanted nothing more than to be the Replacements, and did a decent job of it).

What bothers me about most of the music, and the arts coverage, on NPR is that it's so fucking SINCERE. Like, "Oh, Chan Marshall is so fragile and honest..." or fuckin' Sufjan, whose very first name manages to piss me off. It's music for the aunt who thinks she's still hip, giving you Blind Melon cds for Christmas.

And as far as Terry Gross goes, when she called MacArthur Park "one of the most psychedelic songs I've ever heard," I had to switch off my radio for fear of reaching through it and strangling her.

Lucky's pretty fair for the price but it got kicked out of its shelf space at Vons. Boo!

The Pabst hipster connection is pretty fabricated by the media. It stinks of "truthiness" which translates as rubbish. It springs from a story Pabst's PR people were successful planting at one of the big newspapers, the Post or the NY Times, that it had moved from a cheap blue collar beer your dad, the coal-miner/steel mill worker with emphesema drank, to something hip in Brooklyn.

I kept asking the guy who ran the local beer mart/liquor store in my neighborhood in Pasadena if Pabst ever budged in sales or sold to cool-looking young urban sophisticates. No on both counts.

Pabst is basically throwing their advertising money away on NPR.

"It's music for the aunt who thinks she's still hip, giving you Blind Melon cds for Christmas."

http://www.whatacrappypresent.com/why_the_hell_did_you_this.jpg

What should hip 44 year old female lawyers be listening to btw?

Schmidt's was its main competition in the eastern Pennsy lower-middle-class brew market.

http://www.cinemafilms.org/images/linch/BlueVelvet.jpg

Astounding! Would have never been so before Yuengling started leasing the production tanks of Strohs/Schaeffer along the Lehigh Valley interstate axis. It was a strictly Pottsville, PA & environs beer. In the Seventies, the locals referred to it as Piss. But everyone's local cheap beer is always "piss" whether it tastes good or not.

Papst = Nu-Rolling Rock

Or old Rolling Rock. Does anyone remember the old Rolling Rock commercials with George "Joe Patroni in 'Airport'" Kennedy??

2nd gis hit
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/12/reid_narrowweb__300x474,0.jpg

Semd ober anubber cashe ob Pabst Blue Ribbon!

ws

SHEMEKIA COPELAND'S BLUES LESSON FOR WOMEN: "DON'T GIVE UP...RISE UP"

Shemekia Copeland's upcoming release 'Never Going Back' (out 2.24.09 on Telarc) is a modern blues album with an optimistic thesis, delivering a powerful message of hope and empowerment. But as the "dusky, titanic voice" (NY Times) explains, the songs "Limousine" and "Rise Up," in particular, speak to strong women, and women in need of a little extra strength.

NPR in general, makes me want to barf on so many different levels...

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj242/donaldparsley/DC-micro_8.jpg

hahahaha

Why is this thread stuck at the top of ILM?

Why is this thread stuck at the top of ILM page? Is there a way to get rid of it?

becuz u keep bumping it kornrulez6969

one of my first conscious memories of npr was when they had to read out an apology on the air for using the beastie boys as bumper music

such was the level of complaint

i think it was weekend edition

i can't believe this thread is back at the top again

buuummmmppppp

what the hell can someone get this off the top of new answers

^^^ OTM

hey guys

i got an idea how we can get this off the top of new answers

let's try

to stop posting for while

it's funny this is on new answers because i was just thinking about this

yes

im heading over to the mod forum, something's seriously wrong with the code here

I don't think anything is wrong with the code.

i'm suggest banning all of you for putting this on the top of new answers

Brothers and sisters, what is up with all the snark? For the love of God, people, I'm just trying to find out how to get this thread title off the main ILM page. It never goes away and it's really beginning to get my proverbial goat.

Perhaps your interweb browser is more technologically advanced than mine. But there's no need to get bratty about it. Surely there must be some dance music thread that needs your mongoloid commentary.

^^^ Totally agree.

just checked, still there

We may have discovered a bug in ILM's code

seriously, wtf?

we should probably go back to the old code

Unable to connect to SQL server. TURN BACK YOU POXY FULE.

haha good times

This is craziness.

jw hacking ilx for old times sake imo

Unable to connect to SQL server. TURN BACK YOU POXY FULE.

miss u boo

alright, stet emailed me and told me that he moved this to the bottom of new answers permanently

test bump

Cool, it's at the bottom!

Oh, wait no.

kornrulez, maybe you accidentally bookmarked this thread?

one of my first conscious memories of npr was when they had to read out an apology on the air for using the beastie boys as bumper music

― Tracer Hand, Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:06 AM Bookmark

I heard them use "Yeah" by Usher as bumper music once, was kinda surprised.

i don't see it anymore, nice work, stet!

wtf?

Now look what you did! >:-(

Hey guys is this working?

they had it fixed for a while, but then que fucked it up.

try it now

BAN NPR

Cool that you guys got this worked out.

seems to be broken again

Yep, not working on my phone with Opera Mini 4.2 either. I even tried reinstalling it, but it's definitely ILM.

:-(

it will stay here until we can agree on a definition, obv

So it's not No Problem Rock then?

I think we are making progress gents. It's staying off SNA top longer and longer.

stet updated me and told me that the code slowly degenerates this thread from new answers - he didn't want to shock anyone - and that we should be rid of this by next week

Exciting!

NPR's top ten albums of 2009 so far:

1. The Antlers: Hospice -- Frontman Peter Silberman is only 23, but has produced one of the most beautiful and moving works I've heard in a long, long time. Just astonishing.

2. The Decemberists: The Hazards of Love -- At the rate it's going, we won't recognize this band in another five years. With the 2007 album The Crane Wife, The Decemberists began to drift into more progressive and experimental rock, and away from the quirky sea shanties of earlier work. On The Hazards of Love, the band moves even further into stranger and darker territory, and it's all the better for it.

3. Animal Collective: Merriweather Post Pavilion -- It's just a bunch of senseless noise to some people. But I really believe that this group is inventing an all-new kind of music, and it's simply brilliant. It's a sound that asks us to reconsider how we define everything that music is, from chord structure and patterns to rhythms, lyrics and the way it makes us feel.

4. Laura Gibson: Beasts of Seasons -- I thought her 2006 album, If You Come to Greet Me, was lovely, but I never would have guessed she'd follow it with something as inspired and affecting as Beasts of Seasons. It's a quiet masterpiece.

5. M. Ward: Hold Time Call it new folk or neo-folk or art-folk, nobody does it better than Matt Ward. Hold Time is a gorgeously produced mix of finger-picked guitars, upright bass and shuffling rhythms, all tied together by his achy voice.

6. Jason Lytle: Yours Truly, The Commuter -- Unfortunately, this won't be out until May, and I can't wait to share it with everyone. Hopefully, we'll be able to get it to you early as part of our Exclusive First Listen series. Lytle was the frontman for one of my all-time favorite bands, Grandaddy. I was so bummed when they split up. But he's back with his first solo album, and it feels like nothing's been lost.

7. Andrew Bird: Noble Beast -- His music is an elegant mix of jazz, folk and quirky art-pop, with whistled melodies and lots of wordplay. After seeing him live and reading his blog on the art of songwriting and the creative process, I think he may be a genius.

8. Dan Deacon: Bromst -- I'll be honest: When I first saw Dan Deacon a few years back, I thought he was a joke. He seemed spectacularly disorganized, with a jumble of wires and junky old drum machines and electronics, and his goofy interaction with the audience left me laughing more than anything. I was impressed with the cohesion of his official label debut, Spiderman of the Rings, in 2007. But now, he's putting out an incredibly tight and beautifully realized follow-up, called Bromst. This guy is for real.

9. U2: No Line on the Horizon -- I haven't really cared much for anything U2 has done in the last 10 years or so. It was starting to feel like the band was lurching into that dead zone where so many older groups go, where they just phone it in. But No Line on the Horizon stopped me dead in my tracks. The band sounds inspired again. We hope to have a cut for you soon on All Songs Considered.

10. Mirah: Aspera -- After getting her hooks in me with her artfully crafted folk-pop on You Think It's Like This, But It's Really Like This, Advisory Committee and C'mon Miracle, Mirah disappeared to work on remixes and other projects. I've missed her. Mirah's new studio album, her first in five years, is transporting. Few artists can balance experimental ambition with quiet intimacy as well as she does.

xxpost

we should be rid of this by next week

Would that be the start or the end of next week?

http://slate.com/blogs/blogs/browbeat/archive/2009/10/12/the-dorf-matrix-towards-a-theory-of-npr-s-taste-in-black-music.aspx

Good article. Jody Rosen cataloging exactly what black music gets to be on NPR.

Ugh.

What's that one rap song This American Life plays whenever they have a story with urban flavor?
and is Jessica Hopper to blame?

So far in 2009, the No. 1 song on the Billboard charts has been by a black or female artist -- or by groups featuring both blacks and whites or men and women -- a total of 41 out of 42 weeks.

This argument would have more force if the same group didn't occupy #1 for 26 of those 42 weeks.

Right, but you'd think that NPR listeners would make room for one of them.

"them"

Are you ughing at Rosen or at NPR?

NPR, but it's reflexive at this point.

Honestly can't see NPR immediately fixing this "problem" without causing themselves even more embarrassment (Are the media outlets that always feature the token gangsta rap album on their top new music countdowns, in order to combat accusations just like this, less bad than NPR?)

No, and see recent furore in a fumarole over Pitchfork sexism. At some point, this kind of thing will all be worked out in advance according to bracingly sophisticated algorithms, and the proportionality will be so fucking precise, and no one will ever again have to decide what they like.

Why does Carl Kasell never want to rap?

Whuh? He raps plenty on wait wait don't tell me, and with gusto!

i'm not white enough to listen to that show

"YEAH MOM, I KNOW YOU'LL NEVER LIKE SICBAY AS MUCH AS DAZZLING KILLMEN! DO WE HAVE TO ARGUE ABOUT THIS EVERYTIME YOU COME OVER?"

― M@tt H#1g3son, Friday, January 20, 2006 10:29 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark

all time post btw

Honestly can't see NPR immediately fixing this "problem" without causing themselves even more embarrassment (Are the media outlets that always feature the token gangsta rap album on their top new music countdowns, in order to combat accusations just like this, less bad than NPR?)

I would rather have tokenism than the current approach. Or at least be honest and call the programming "All indie-rock considered," and "Best indie-rock of 2009 (so far). Around a year and a half ago, I e-mailed Bob Boilen, the director of All Songs Considered, about their all American indie-rock considered approach, and he made excuses. When their year-end 2008 discussion focussed on the same ol' US indie rock stuff, some commenters complained. But he does not seem to care about the criticism nor do many of the NPR listeners.

The thing is that popular music -- by that I mean music that is actually really popular -- hosts a great share of black musicians and black pop stars, and they don't need to be subsidized to get on the radio, but corny indie (which is obv. very white) does need NPR to get played.

and part of public radio's promise is that it will broadcast things that would not survive otherwise and it kind of caters to a more sophisticated audience. It doesn't have to be commercial and can promote Art with a capital "A" because it's not worried about the bottom line. So they've been doing that and we wound up with what we currently have: something that is embarrassingly white, educated and middle-class. I'm not sure we can fix the root of the problem very easily.

wtf does "embarrassingly middle class" even mean, anybody who actually harbors fears of fitting into that demographic needs to start sending me their money just to be safe, I'll take the hit for you all

"embarrassingly educated" is like bonus round of wrong thinking

The thing is that popular music -- by that I mean music that is actually really popular -- hosts a great share of black musicians and black pop stars, and they don't need to be subsidized to get on the radio, but corny indie (which is obv. very white) does need NPR to get played.

The problem with this line of thought is that there is a shit-ton of black music that actually gets listened to by black folk that doesn't get played on mainstream, commercial radio but NPR doesn't fuck with none of it.

loving "the DORF Matrix"

J0hn OTM. There's something dishonest-seeming about NPR & Pitchfork's pretense of "generalist" coverage (when they're so indie-centric at heart), but this only reflects indie's fundamental squeamishness about what it really is: white, educated, middle-class music. And that in turn is probably a product of how easily we reach for constructions like "embarrassingly white, educated and middle-class", for whatever reason.

"but corny indie (which is obv. very white) does need NPR to get played."

I'm reading the Greg Kot book right now and there's a section in it where a buyer from the music store says he needs the trifecta of positive NYT, Pitchfork & NPR reviews before he'll stock an item. I thought the NPR part sounded fishy, but you saying it is true?

jeez, that guy is doing a bad job if he won't stock things that NYT, Pitchfork and NPR don't like. I mean, that's a lot of (popular!) music! No wonder record stores are going out of business.

loving "the DORF Matrix"

Is it because it makes you imagine Tim Conway in futuristic shades?

Oh, and what's getting lost here (certainly easy for me as a black person to often forget) is that the US isn't anything approaching a bi-cultural nation. How much representation on NPR is there of Latin, Asian, Native American, Middle Eastern music? Probably even less than there is for black music.

wtf does "embarrassingly middle class" even mean, anybody who actually harbors fears of fitting into that demographic needs to start sending me their money just to be safe, I'll take the hit for you all

it's only embarrassing in context and considering the pretensions that it's otherwise. contenderizer is in similar territory with his last post.

It doesn't have to be commercial and can promote Art with a capital "A" because it's not worried about the bottom line.

I think the converse is truer, NPR music has to be chiefly non-commercial and Art and eclectic because they are deeply worried about the bottom line, or so they sound to me during pledge season. They wouldn't play the music they play if it didn't cater to their audience (and its aspirations to sophistication).

Does NPR = "all things considered" only?
Has anyone cataloged how well the other shows do, like the derogatis/kot show, fresh air, etc...?

"sound of young america" is a little better than the npr norm about all this (hey, he posts beanie sigel videos). otoh, the dorfiest thing i heard on public radio recently was kurt andersen's extended interview with charli 2na. it wasn't even a bad interview, it was just ... so dorfy.

Christgau devotes lots of his moments to "non-Western" musics.

dad a otm

didn't NPR have a hip-hop show at one point?

Does NPR = "all things considered" only?

I think All Songs Considered started out as a show/website about the music on All Things Considered but is pretty much its own entity these days.

Re an NPR hiphop show, I do not think so, but they had a few talk shows with African-American themes that they have dropped in recent years.

Regarding "non-commercial music," if NPR features a Fleet Foxes concert as they did, and that same group has also appeared on Saturnday Night Live, then (which I think is what some of you mean) we are really just talking about a 'perception' of noncommercialism. Bob Boilen, who selects the concerts for the website, is in DC which has hosted plenty of gigs by neo-soul and country and metal bands, not to mention lots of international stuff that I've e-mailed him about in addition to rap and go-go. Yet he's not interested in most of that for the concert series.

Plus he does not want to challenge that bottom line.

we are really just talking about a 'perception' of noncommercialism

Totally. I've heard plenty of reviews of hit records on NPR, they're not anti-commercial per se and it's not their mission to ferret out the most compelling underground musics. They flatter their listeners' desire to be cosmopolitan. I don't have a problem with that nor see what the problem is, really. I've heard NPR play music that (1) NPR programmers and critics seem to fully enjoy (which I'd guess is less common on standard mainstream stations), unless they're telling you what they don't enjoy about it (also less common elsewhere); (2) their listeners like or would want to be exposed to; and (3) is more often than not pretty good.

Re an NPR hiphop show, I do not think so, but they had a few talk shows with African-American themes that they have dropped in recent years.

I'd call Tavis Smiley's show a "talk show with African-American themes"; his musical guests (at least looking at the last couple of months' worth of shows) are pretty much all DORF (well, ORF):

Raphael Saadiq, Roy Hargrove, Smokie Norful, Hiroshima, George Benson, Chick Corea, Corneille, CeCe Winans, Hugh Masekela, India.Arie, Homemade Jamz Blues Band, K'Naan, George Clinton, Robert Glasper. (Also, fwiw, Cat Stevens and Tony Bennett.)

I heard he interviewed 2pac a couple months back.

'I'd call Tavis Smiley's show a "talk show with African-American themes"'

Does he have a different show than the one on TV? Because the few episodes I've seen does not fit that description well. (I think he had Michael Phelps and Quincy Jones on. I want to say at the same time, but I'm probably conflating different episodes.)

It's a different show. You could argue about what's meant by the phrase "African-American themes," but 9 of the 10 guests in this past week's show appear to be black men and women.

They flatter their listeners' desire to be cosmopolitan. I don't have a problem with that nor see what the problem is, really.

The problem to me is that it encourages a limited version of "cosmopolitan" that in some senses is not much different from the "I listen to everything but rap and country" pov that many folks who are not hardcore music listeners possess. I also think it encourages a very narrow definition of what is "art," and adds to the problems that some perceive with the Pitchfork look at this decade.

No offense, curmudgeon, but I'm tired of the "people's tastes need to be broadened" argument. If you think that a certain segment of the music-listening public is shirking its obligation to sponsor the creativity of certain segments of the music-producing public, then you need to make a good case for that argument. Otherwise, it should be okay for NPR and Pitfork to be as narrow as they wanna be, regardless of their pretense of generalist inclusivity.

That's OK for pitchfork, but NPR has a mandate to be awesome. I'm sure it's in their charter somewhere.

Then NPR should just call their website "All American Indie-rock Considered" if that is their main focus. I'd be fine with that. I would also be fine with them retitling their "Best Music of 2009" poll as "Best American Indie-rock of 2009."

As for Pitchfork, they are of course free to cover what they want and I am free to criticize their coverage as narrow. I acknowledge that lots of people are happy with what they offer, but since they have had a dancehall/reggae column in the past, have reviewed rap and pop and Afrobeat records, have/had a column on grime/dubstep etc., then I certainly am within my rights to wonder why they do not do more of that.

If you're gonna give off a "pretense of generalist inclusivity" then you should try to live up to that.

I don't listen to All Songs Considered regularly, but if this list of artists featured is any indication, this is a totally diverse show: http://www.npr.org/templates/artist/artist_index.php?filter=A New, old, indie, mainstream, male, female, world, jazz, whatevs. It doesn't cover everything, sure, but ... big deal?

Yeah, I regretted bitching as soon as I hit submit. Wasn't necessary. I mean, yr free to wonder about bogus claims, I'm free to get frustrated by this or that, and mainstream indies are free to cover/play what they want. Etc. We're all one big happy family.

maybe the actual playlists of the shows wouldn't look so wide-ranging, I don't know.

"hit submit" is a cool phrase

Look at the all songs considered "concerts" list and the all songs considered "tiny desk" concerts list. The non-indie stuff has a token presence at best.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120326033&sc=fb&cc=fp#list

The Decade's 50 Most Important Recordings

Favorite records don't necessarily qualify. A lot of people, including nearly everyone at NPR Music, love Fleet Foxes' debut album, but was it one of the decade's most important? (You can tell us what you think in the comments section below.) The 50 recordings that appear here are listed alphabetically.

John Adams: On The Transmigration Of Souls
Animal Collective: Merriweather Post Pavilion
The Arcade Fire: Funeral
The Bad Plus: These Are The Vistas
Beyonce: Dangerously In Love
Bon Iver: For Emma, Forever Ago
Bright Eyes: I’m Wide Awake, It’s Morning
Burial: Untrue
Clap Your Hands Say Yeah: S/T
Kelly Clarkson: Breakaway
Coldplay: A Rush Of Blood To The Head
Danger Mouse: The Grey Album
Death Cab For Cutie: Transatlanticism
The Decemberists: The Crane Wife
Eminem: The Marshall Mathers LP
The Flaming Lips: Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots
Osvaldo Golijov: La Pasión Segun San Marcos (Saint Mark's Passion)
Green Day: American Idiot
Iron And Wine: Our Endless Numbered Days
Jay-Z: The Blueprint
Norah Jones: Come Away With Me
Juanes: Fijate Bien
LCD Soundsystem: Sound Of Silver
Lil’ Wayne: Tha Carter III
Little Brother: The Listening
M.I.A.: Kala
Yo-Yo Ma: Silk Road Journeys: When Strangers Meet
Mastodon: Black Stars
Jason Moran: Black Stars
OutKast: Stankonia
Brad Paisley: 5th Gear
Panda Bear: Person Pitch
Robert Plant & Alison Krauss: The Rising
The Postal Service: Give Up
Radiohead: In Rainbows
Radiohead: Kid A
Shakira: Fijación Oral, Vol. 1
Sigur Ros: ( )
Britney Spears: In The Zone
Sufjan Stevens: Illinois
The Strokes: Is This It
The Swell Season: Once Soundtrack
Ali Farka Toure & Toumani Diabate: In The Heart of the Moon
TV On The Radio: Return To Cookie Mountain
Various: Garden State Soundtrack
Various: O Brother, Where Art Thou? Soundtrack
Kanye West: The College Dropout
The White Stripes: White Blood Cells
Wilco: Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
Amy Winehouse: Back To Black

Well, they almost got me with "White Blood Cells" but since I preferred "Redd Blood Cells" I'm in the clear.

holy fucking shit

Its going to be fun watching ILM freak out over this list. Especially considering there are at least nine (by my count) albums the ILM massive has been gaga over at one point or another.

lolz, the O Brother, Where Art Thou soundtrack. I haven't thought about that in years.

Me neither. It's pretty damn good though.

Favorite records don't necessarily qualify. A lot of people, including nearly everyone at NPR Music, love Fleet Foxes' debut album, but was it one of the decade's most important?

nothing says "we're discriminating for importance" like Clap Your Hands Say Yeah

or, you know, "discriminating"

Robert Plant & Alison Krauss: The Rising

Plant and Krauss covered Springsteen already?

hahaha and Mastodon covering Jason Moran

That's a much more respectably catholic list than I would have imagined.

u can make a pretty good argument for clap yr hands say yeahs importance imo

fucking what the fuck, this list has records on it I don't like

what am I gonna do

didn't feel like it at the time, but The Strokes faced long odds when the band's debut came out in the fall of 2001. One of many anointed "saviors of rock," the band had an air of manufactured pop before hipsters learned to appreciate Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake. It sold audiences impeccably curated retro cool at the last moment before technology turned everyone with a Napster account into librarians with unlimited access.

Gotta say though, Napster was dead by the time this came out, right? I remember downloading this off Audiogalaxy.

they have been jizzing over Bon Iver for what seems like the entire decade.

Heard some dweeby nebbish reviewing Black Noise on All Things Considered tonight, so I guess we can add Pantha du Prince to the canon.

haha

Has M. Matos done reviews for them before this one?

what a disaster for eclecticism

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125676131

NPR commenters confused that PDP would be considered "techno."

Would lap Matos any fee he demands to hear a podcast between him and Carrie Brownstein arguing for three hours.

*pay

You'd lap that shit up, too.

Oh yes.

Nice job on this, voice sounds good on the radio.

^^^ Good segment. I spent a lot of it wondering "How did he convince them to do a techno segment?" so nice job on that too. (Was it the indie goes techno angle?)

The piece came a few minutes after a nice one by Carlo Rotella, which made hearing Matos even funnier, because obviously now NPR rock = '09 EMP Pop Conf podcast.

Just wanted to say that I actually thought the piece was great too, lest anyone look at my post and think "Oh my god, he's talking shit about a long time ilxor!"

I bet the indie-rock connection definately helped.

It's been a great year for discovery, and hopefully you can use the list below to find some music you haven't heard this year — or revisit ones that maybe deserve a little more time.

1. The Decemberists: The King Is Dead
2. Fleet Foxes: Helplessness Blues
3. Adele: 21
4. Bon Iver: Bon Iver
5. Radiohead: The King of Limbs
6. Iron & Wine: Kiss Each Other Clean
7. Death Cab For Cutie: Codes and Keys
8. My Morning Jacket: Circuital
9. Amos Lee: Mission Bell
10. Bright Eyes: The People's Key

http://www.npr.org/blogs/allsongs/2011/06/21/137305879/poll-results-listeners-pick-the-best-of-the-year-so-far

for me to poop on

*barf*

I'm surprised that Tyler the Creator's Goblin only came in at 74. This album hasn't been covered too much by NPR, but around the web it gets massive praise. I'm also surprised to see so many may/june albums towards the top.

Wed Jun 22 19:54:43 2011

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how many white guitarists does it take to screw the head of an NPR intern?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/bestmusic2012/2012/12/12/166972039/listener-picks-your-favorite-albums-of-2012